From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 12 18:48:33 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K6qpb-3A9knw-04-Adc.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 18:48:33 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K6qpb-3A9knw-04-Adc; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:43:27 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K6qpb-3A9knw-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:43:27 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K6qpa-0000tc-ML for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:43:27 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 994DB85EA34; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11112-10; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1D7FA85EFD7; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:42:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B5C9085E2F9 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12760-04 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 81A0485E172 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:45:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1K6n7c-000LBL-CQ for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:45:49 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:43:53 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Converting documents to Quark References: <4fa253dd79chris@highpath.net> <4fa7c1ff54rkp@par.me.uk> <$0Y1kEDV0UQIFweu@pilling.demon.co.uk> <1C29EE614F1E490CB44C84BEE9477A11@PC01> <4fa9072a08chris@highpath.net> <4faa95cd8dchris@highpath.net> In-Reply-To: <4faa95cd8dchris@highpath.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 741 X-Approved-By: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: david@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=soJmbx_OIcsA:10 a=PvIxqy8V1SMA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=4kKp12NNWYV4bY1ohMUA:9 a=x1kQsyywlXtEP82MR4cA:7 a=ro9lXtxNScBZteR2lHGKlYnL-TEA:4 a=50e4U0PicR4A:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1499] Hi, Someone has approached me with a book he has done in Impression. His publishers want it in Quark format. The book is structured as lots of frames with text in - there's no large body text that flows through the document, instead each page has four non-linked frames with text in. I wondered if anyone has any suggestions as to how to tackle this problem. I'm considering writing some software to help, if I do that I want to make the software useful for the users of Ovation Pro. I can load the documents into Ovation Pro, the question is what format to save them out in? Approaches I have tried and discarded are - print to PDF, PDF to Word conversion (loses all the style information), save text as DDF, DDF to Word using Techwriter (hard work because there are so many stories). -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 13 11:38:52 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K6upS-4J4000-08-FAH.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:38:52 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K6upS-4J4000-08-FAH; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 21:59:34 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K6upS-4J4000-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 21:59:34 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K6upR-0005iC-8w for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 21:59:34 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BDF118600AE; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05209-01; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 370B386008A; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:59:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:58:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 70FEA860081 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:58:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05074-07 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:58:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.talktalk.net (smtp-out-4.talktalk.net [62.24.128.234]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1F5B286007B for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:58:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Path: TTSMTP X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvlMAE84UUhZ8vRrPGdsb2JhbACBP5BUAQEBAS2cZg Received: from unknown (HELO Iyonix.) ([89.242.244.107]) by smtp.talktalk.net with ESMTP; 12 Jun 2008 22:58:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: William Lack To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 22:58:47 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Converting documents to Quark Message-ID: <4fae7a6338williamlack@clara.net> In-Reply-To: References: <4fa253dd79chris@highpath.net> <4fa7c1ff54rkp@par.me.uk> <$0Y1kEDV0UQIFweu@pilling.demon.co.uk> <1C29EE614F1E490CB44C84BEE9477A11@PC01> <4fa9072a08chris@highpath.net> <4faa95cd8dchris@highpath.net> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04e (RISC-OS/5.13) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 742 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: williamlack@clara.net Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=soJmbx_OIcsA:10 a=PvIxqy8V1SMA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=pZPhcQmMAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=zOnD_fZl17L2KHvr-rgA:9 a=iRReamGWLxXZ62SN21MA:7 a=z6g5NpvrvfbO6EyifjB7FZp5VbgA:4 a=nRm1o29pdjkA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1499] On 12 Jun, David Pilling wrote: > Hi, > Someone has approached me with a book he has done in Impression. His > publishers want it in Quark format. The book is structured as lots of > frames with text in - there's no large body text that flows through the > document, instead each page has four non-linked frames with text in. > I wondered if anyone has any suggestions as to how to tackle this > problem. > I'm considering writing some software to help, if I do that I want to > make the software useful for the users of Ovation Pro. > I can load the documents into Ovation Pro, the question is what format > to save them out in? > Approaches I have tried and discarded are - print to PDF, PDF to Word > conversion (loses all the style information), save text as DDF, DDF to > Word using Techwriter (hard work because there are so many stories). David Breakwell's !MakeRTF (which runs well uner Aemulor) would make a good job at converting the styles but would probably ignore the frame information. -- William Lack --------------------- williamlack@clara.net County Series: http://home.clara.net/williamlack/index.htm To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 13 11:38:59 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K6w6U-3Mhknw-02-DtF.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:38:59 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K6w6U-3Mhknw-02-DtF; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 23:21:14 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K6w6U-3Mhknw-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 23:21:14 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K6w6T-0002CZ-BQ for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 23:21:13 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 68A2985FCCF; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10408-07; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E195C85FD1B; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:21:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:20:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C95F585FCCF for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:20:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10299-07 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:20:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail4.webfaction.com (mail4.webfaction.com [74.52.233.2]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5A57085FC94 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:20:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from abacus.local (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail4.webfaction.com (8.13.1/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m5CNKOYp023336 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2008 18:20:27 -0500 From: David Boddie To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Converting documents to Quark Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 01:20:22 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200806130120.22487.david@boddie.org.uk> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 743 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: david@boddie.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=9IXqiQiop7cA:10 a=6AePAfrS9bgA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=hc1URTY5BZPIwHikHCUA:9 a=8ehjAbkNYBfMH74eFmAA:7 a=-mcBhtRXZu60k8MTQM0e-45LHrUA:4 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1499] On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:43:53 +0100, David Pilling wrote: > Someone has approached me with a book he has done in Impression. His > publishers want it in Quark format. The book is structured as lots of > frames with text in - there's no large body text that flows through the > document, instead each page has four non-linked frames with text in. > > I wondered if anyone has any suggestions as to how to tackle this problem. The non-linked text problem or the interoperability with Quark problem? > I'm considering writing some software to help, if I do that I want to make > the software useful for the users of Ovation Pro. > > I can load the documents into Ovation Pro, the question is what format to > save them out in? I suppose you'll either have to choose another intermediate format that can keep the layout information or - if you have access to Quark running on a Mac - hope that Quark has some kind of automation interface you can use to insert the text in the right places. > Approaches I have tried and discarded are - print to PDF, PDF to Word > conversion (loses all the style information), save text as DDF, DDF to Word > using Techwriter (hard work because there are so many stories). Is there any chance the publisher can accept another format that Quark can import fairly reliably? David To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 13 11:53:46 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K76mi-3Czknw-08-BjX.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:53:46 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K76mi-3Czknw-08-BjX; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:45:32 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K76mi-3Czknw-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:45:32 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K76mi-0005oz-1R for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:45:32 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8BAC8860218; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23573-07; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:45:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 083328602D1; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:45:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:44:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2746486025A for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 05:56:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20095-02 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 05:56:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx7.orcon.net.nz (mx7.orcon.net.nz [219.88.242.57]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D2BA785F3E5 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 05:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Debian-exim by mx7.orcon.net.nz with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1K761a-0006FB-2I for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:56:50 +1200 Received: from [60.234.184.59] (helo=mysteriousmrf.my.home) by mx7.orcon.net.nz with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1K761Z-0006Ew-JY for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:56:49 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Robert Greenfield To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:58:20 +1200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Converting documents to Quark Message-ID: <4faebc43c0monster@caverock.net.nz> In-Reply-To: References: <4fa253dd79chris@highpath.net> <4fa7c1ff54rkp@par.me.uk> <$0Y1kEDV0UQIFweu@pilling.demon.co.uk> <1C29EE614F1E490CB44C84BEE9477A11@PC01> <4fa9072a08chris@highpath.net> <4faa95cd8dchris@highpath.net> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) Content-Type: text/plain X-DSPAM-Check: by mx7.orcon.net.nz on Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:56:50 +1200 X-DSPAM-Result: Innocent X-DSPAM-Processed: Fri Jun 13 21:56:50 2008 X-DSPAM-Confidence: 0.9898 X-DSPAM-Probability: 0.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 744 X-Approved-By: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: monster@caverock.net.nz Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=9IXqiQiop7cA:10 a=6AePAfrS9bgA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=an63MGxJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=lguLTVsQ9u5dMk1QfTEA:9 a=2eswI0Lxvph89WHSotYA:7 a=NM4b2R6FuFGjom7gzb1tFQxOy1EA:4 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1501] On 13 Jun, David Pilling wrote: > I'm considering writing some software to help, if I do that I want to > make the software useful for the users of Ovation Pro. > I can load the documents into Ovation Pro, the question is what format > to save them out in? I don't use any DTP/graphics apps except on RISC OS so from my idealistic viewpoint: A few months ago I mooted the possibility of Ovation Pro and Artworks interacting more closely and could a possible route to Quark be: OvPro -> Artworks -> Xara product that can open Artworks file -> into Quark This idea relies on Xara reading multipage Artworks2 files. My other question (again from my idealistic viewpoint) - could the publishers really not handle using OvationPro themselves? I really like using OvationPro (and Artworks), so I concede that I am quite biased... regards, -- Robert Greenfield via RISC OS - http://www.webmonster.co.nz/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 13 12:08:47 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K76zB-2W0Vbs-01-BX4.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:08:47 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K76zB-2W0Vbs-01-BX4; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:58:25 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K76zB-2W0Vbs-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:58:25 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K76z8-0002oP-H7 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:58:25 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 535C58603D2; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:58:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24672-09; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:58:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B63828603CF; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:58:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:57:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 18120860357 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:57:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24192-08 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:57:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.186]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B2130860283 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:57:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bach (88-134-110-213-dynip.superkabel.de [88.134.110.213]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu2) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKwtQ-1K76yP3q61-0004XQ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:57:38 +0200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Converting documents to Quark To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Martin Wuerthner X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:52:19 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4fa253dd79chris@highpath.net> <4fa7c1ff54rkp@par.me.uk> <$0Y1kEDV0UQIFweu@pilling.demon.co.uk> <1C29EE614F1E490CB44C84BEE9477A11@PC01> <4fa9072a08chris@highpath.net> <4faa95cd8dchris@highpath.net> <4faebc43c0monster@caverock.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <4faebc43c0monster@caverock.net.nz> X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/obcqo7OUn8qzoFsUEciFzUC0/ozHrA66d8C+ +2vZw35ElERehrYkf8RtPAHUqxWh+S0A0xzfyxWhBrsZvarQF7 MOvApXZyMyk50Wpj2XEOJAVm+XK04bw X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 745 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: public@mw-software.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=9IXqiQiop7cA:10 a=6AePAfrS9bgA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=kFP67zsVP_RntQSkb8QA:9 a=kQFXibVal23ui0P93VUA:7 a=CNOBO7LaZID9IgqDMzl2Y_mCOi0A:4 a=fl4ZfBcLCrEA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1501] In message <4faebc43c0monster@caverock.net.nz> Robert Greenfield wrote: > A few months ago I mooted the possibility of Ovation Pro and Artworks > interacting more closely and could a possible route to Quark be: > OvPro -> Artworks -> Xara product that can open Artworks file -> into Quark Sorry, but not a single one of these steps works. > This idea relies on Xara reading multipage Artworks2 files. Xara does not even read single page ArtWorks files. However, your suggestion t also relies on ArtWorks reading OvationPro files and it relies on Quark reading Xara files and none of these assumptions is correct. The only theoretical route from OvationPro to Xara is via PDF and that would not involve ArtWorks. Simply print to PDF from OvationPro and import into Xara. But what then? The whole thing really boils down to the question of what Quark can import. As long as we have not established that, everything else is pointless guesswork. Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 13 12:08:51 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K76zD-4Dxknw-06-BX2.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:08:51 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K76zD-4Dxknw-06-BX2; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:58:27 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K76zD-4Dxknw-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:58:27 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K76z8-0006XX-SI for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:58:27 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id AEADA860283; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:58:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24684-04-4; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:58:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 24A548603A8; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:58:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:57:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 48374860283 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:57:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24246-03 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:57:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.171]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E01B1860355 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:57:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bach (88-134-110-213-dynip.superkabel.de [88.134.110.213]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu2) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKwtQ-1K76yQ2ZeH-0004XQ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:57:38 +0200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Converting documents to Quark To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Martin Wuerthner X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:57:41 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4fa253dd79chris@highpath.net> <4fa7c1ff54rkp@par.me.uk> <$0Y1kEDV0UQIFweu@pilling.demon.co.uk> <1C29EE614F1E490CB44C84BEE9477A11@PC01> <4fa9072a08chris@highpath.net> <4faa95cd8dchris@highpath.net> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18TWzVBzKu1qKA7pO8agoqLyhaXKLsrGdRRQHE 373VxJnewvDg3nI6A+APeC3TAsWWjjk+SDKMJJmRMdP5ldS+iy msJqsLskDloskEUTnE3S6IWexLKIXY3 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 746 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: public@mw-software.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=9IXqiQiop7cA:10 a=6AePAfrS9bgA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=z7ZbZVfPsuc4-kd-OFoA:9 a=tUUGcpBuh8QeLsjEDY8A:7 a=BSprTrTFTySKIPICXkTcI7e6seAA:4 a=fl4ZfBcLCrEA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1501] In message David Pilling wrote: > Someone has approached me with a book he has done in Impression. His > publishers want it in Quark format. The book is structured as lots of > frames with text in - there's no large body text that flows through the > document, instead each page has four non-linked frames with text in. > I wondered if anyone has any suggestions as to how to tackle this > problem. > I'm considering writing some software to help, if I do that I want to > make the software useful for the users of Ovation Pro. > I can load the documents into Ovation Pro, the question is what format > to save them out in? The best approach would be to output Quark's own tagged DDL format, but such a converter would be rather specialized. > Approaches I have tried and discarded are - print to PDF, PDF to Word > conversion (loses all the style information), save text as DDF, DDF to > Word using Techwriter (hard work because there are so many stories). RTF output is probably the only solution that retains the style information. Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 13 12:08:51 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K76zP-4F5knw-06-BWq.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:08:51 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K76zP-4F5knw-06-BWq; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:58:39 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K76zP-4F5knw-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:58:39 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K76zN-0004Li-Fq for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:58:39 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 71702860373; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24772-07; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E5D898603C9; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:58:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:57:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 737CD860373 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:57:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24273-08 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:57:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.altohiway.com (smtp01.altohiway.com [195.12.4.238]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1C8ED860389 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 06:57:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from websrv.quantel.com ([195.12.20.34]) by smtp01.altohiway.com (8.13.6/8.13.7) with ESMTP id m5DAvmcS030874 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:57:48 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4faebc43c0monster@caverock.net.nz> To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Converting documents to Quark MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:57:45 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 747 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: Andy.Ling@Quantel.Com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=9IXqiQiop7cA:10 a=6AePAfrS9bgA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=ldqt4VukAAAA:8 a=6D-Hy7tQAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=dJnavhzFDdIwLf_pE78A:9 a=5CxVnujLIAGesLSdn7EA:7 a=IU3wsE7863szBJetx3XWXQ35AucA:4 a=jOOiQbAeiJwA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1501] On 13 Jun, David Pilling wrote: > I'm considering writing some software to help, if I do that I want to > make the software useful for the users of Ovation Pro. Something like this might help :- http://www.iwriteiam.nl/QX.html Although it is a bit old and probably wont help for anything other than Quark > I can load the documents into Ovation Pro, the question is what format > to save them out in? XML springs to mind. It might be worth looking at this :- http://tinyurl.com/3gvemu It looks like Quark could import XML and this may be useful for other situations. Andy Ling -- This e-mail is intended for the named addressees only. Its contents may be privileged or confidential and should be treated as such. If you are not an intended recipient please notify the sender immediately; do not copy, distribute, or take any action based on this e-mail; and then delete it. In the pursuit of its legitimate business activities and its conformance with relevant legislation, Quantel Ltd. may access any e-mail (including attachments) it originates and receives, for potential scrutiny. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 13 12:23:52 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K77FN-43kVbs-01-BGs.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:23:52 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K77FN-43kVbs-01-BGs; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:15:09 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K77FN-43kVbs-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:15:09 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K77FJ-0000lj-4S for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:15:08 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 92E5E85F907; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25963-06; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:15:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id F384E85F583; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:15:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:14:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9B5C785F907 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25866-10 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4724685F8C3 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:14:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bach (88-134-110-213-dynip.superkabel.de [88.134.110.213]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu7) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0ML2xA-1K77Ed43td-0005mN; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:14:24 +0200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Converting documents to Quark To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Martin Wuerthner X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:14:53 +0200 Message-ID: <9c45c3ae4f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+FgblpYXLK4CbshCZ1bql45AvaYI6tWSOwVm9 tDPmIkccjnqMl80Kb7tG1UYCAOjgzQutsRFp3zzexNWW8yqNJ/ 7Eevu6vw5NGcXyBzRJVhaJrar0rnOYA X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 748 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: public@mw-software.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=9IXqiQiop7cA:10 a=6AePAfrS9bgA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=ldqt4VukAAAA:8 a=6D-Hy7tQAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=7wvTIznthyJcxplVbJ4A:9 a=H95BT_QY6ZP1bJhur0kA:7 a=_ps43JNKbU4sw9eEPwGDNhxVvEIA:4 a=jOOiQbAeiJwA:10 a=Skpf-qo106oA:10 a=fl4ZfBcLCrEA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1501] In message Andy.Ling@Quantel.Com wrote: > On 13 Jun, David Pilling wrote: >> I'm considering writing some software to help, if I do that I want to >> make the software useful for the users of Ovation Pro. > Something like this might help :- > http://www.iwriteiam.nl/QX.html > Although it is a bit old and probably wont help for anything other > than Quark Also, it would be completely mad to try and *write* that format when Quark has a perfectly well documented text based DDL format that was created for precisely the purpose of interoperability. The only merit in reverse engineering the binary format is in being able to *read* Quark binary files. >> I can load the documents into Ovation Pro, the question is what format >> to save them out in? > XML springs to mind. It might be worth looking at this :- > http://tinyurl.com/3gvemu > It looks like Quark could import XML and this may be useful > for other situations. XML is not a file format, it is just an underlying structure for defining file formats. So, writing a converter that creates QXML files, the XML based Quark file format, would still only be useful for one particular situation, namely converting to Quark. Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 13 12:23:54 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K77NL-1iSVbs-02-B8u.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:23:54 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K77NL-1iSVbs-02-B8u; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:23:23 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K77NL-1iSVbs-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:23:23 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K77NH-0000bZ-0l for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:23:23 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4BD01860199; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:23:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26576-01; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:23:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B81A68600D4; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:23:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:22:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0827085FF58 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:22:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26407-06 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:22:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.87]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C998D85F913 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:22:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) id 1K77Mb-0005Go-Nf for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:22:37 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:21:33 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Converting documents to Quark References: <4faebc43c0monster@caverock.net.nz> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 749 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=9IXqiQiop7cA:10 a=6AePAfrS9bgA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=ldqt4VukAAAA:8 a=6D-Hy7tQAAAA:8 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=qInVw--bF8Mu4uUVu3oA:9 a=YK4mnzTqXivgMwOt6JAA:7 a=K1h1dsj3AN1sPUk7zA0NY_xyKmUA:4 a=jOOiQbAeiJwA:10 a=Skpf-qo106oA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1501] In message , Andy.Ling@Quantel.Com writes >http://www.iwriteiam.nl/QX.html That's awesome (someone has reverse engineered the Quark file format), I could have had fun with that once. >XML springs to mind. It might be worth looking at this :- >http://tinyurl.com/3gvemu Actually that is the perfect solution, I'd been wondering if such a thing existed (a text format for entire Quark documents). My inclination this morning is to provide a new option "save all stories as RTF" on the grounds it is simple and easy to get working. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 13 12:38:47 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K77TD-1Tn000-07-B32.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:38:47 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K77TD-1Tn000-07-B32; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:29:27 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K77TD-1Tn000-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:29:27 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K77T8-0002IE-Ii for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:29:27 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0AD518600D4; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:29:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26837-06; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:29:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 84D9E8601C1; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:29:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:28:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E343B860163 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:28:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26715-07 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:28:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.87]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id AF739860156 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 07:28:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) id 1K77SU-0003AQ-OR for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:28:43 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:27:17 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Converting documents to Quark References: <200806130120.22487.david@boddie.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <200806130120.22487.david@boddie.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 750 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=9IXqiQiop7cA:10 a=6AePAfrS9bgA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=v4b77FUp4c6MWGSKJaEA:9 a=-G-1vF0HNi6cajdmp1EA:7 a=0_J5TI4H5B3xzIWK_01JtYo3FdQA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1501] In message <200806130120.22487.david@boddie.org.uk>, David Boddie writes >The non-linked text problem or the interoperability with Quark problem? Well both. I know I wrote OP so that you can't link two frames which both contain text - what a stupid limitation... >I suppose you'll either have to choose another intermediate format that can >keep the layout information That format being? >Is there any chance the publisher can accept another format that Quark can >import fairly reliably? Well yes. One reason I ask the question here is that it gives you a chance to say what you'd like, if I'm going to do any work it might as well be useful to everyone. You might know what works well with Quark, or what would be useful in general. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 13 16:08:54 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K7Aod-1RkVbs-03-GE8.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:08:54 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K7Aod-1RkVbs-03-GE8; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:03:47 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K7Aod-1RkVbs-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:03:47 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K7AoX-0005hD-NQ for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:03:47 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 25A93860058; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:03:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16819-03; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:03:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 89636860105; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:03:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:03:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CE962860078 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:03:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16713-05 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:03:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.o2.co.uk (yoda.london.02.net [82.132.130.151]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7160186006E for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 11:03:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.68] (78.86.89.89) by mail.o2.co.uk (8.0.013.3) (authenticated as phillipmarsden@o2.co.uk) id 4851DD95001ADA6A for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:03:00 +0100 Message-ID: <48528C22.7000007@btinternet.com> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:02:58 +0100 From: Phillip Marsden User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Converting documents to Quark References: <4fa253dd79chris@highpath.net> <4fa7c1ff54rkp@par.me.uk> <$0Y1kEDV0UQIFweu@pilling.demon.co.uk> <1C29EE614F1E490CB44C84BEE9477A11@PC01> <4fa9072a08chris@highpath.net> <4faa95cd8dchris@highpath.net> <4faebc43c0monster@caverock.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <4faebc43c0monster@caverock.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 751 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: phillip.marsden@btinternet.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=9IXqiQiop7cA:10 a=6AePAfrS9bgA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=Qyztg64fU8K2pArAv4kA:9 a=raAJAX2eAW0LAW_00dcA:7 a=p1r1H4y7AhvWc01FyY6FN5uxqEQA:4 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=Dqp-bWOt5EsA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1501] Robert Greenfield wrote: > On 13 Jun, David Pilling wrote: > > >> I'm considering writing some software to help, if I do that I want to >> make the software useful for the users of Ovation Pro. >> > > >> I can load the documents into Ovation Pro, the question is what format >> to save them out in? >> > > I don't use any DTP/graphics apps except on RISC OS so from my idealistic > viewpoint: > > A few months ago I mooted the possibility of Ovation Pro and Artworks > interacting more closely and could a possible route to Quark be: > > OvPro -> Artworks -> Xara product that can open Artworks file -> into Quark > > This idea relies on Xara reading multipage Artworks2 files. > > My other question (again from my idealistic viewpoint) - could the > publishers really not handle using OvationPro themselves? > I really like using OvationPro (and Artworks), so I concede that I am > quite biased... > Biased and over-idealistic. Mr Pilling was asking for practical suggestions. As for expecting the publisher to cope with Ovation Pro (which, for all its delights, is a very minor player and one which the publisher has probably never heard of) I despair that you could even make the suggestion. :o( -- Regards, Phillip Marsden For quality bespoke acoustic guitars phillip.marsden@btinternet.com To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 13 20:39:01 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K7F1r-09mknw-07-C0u.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:39:01 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K7F1r-09mknw-07-C0u; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:33:43 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K7F1r-09mknw-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:33:43 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K7F1q-0001n5-FB for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:33:43 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BE89485FA71; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:33:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10266-07; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:33:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3C4BE85FB96; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:33:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:33:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5FCEA85FB5B for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:33:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10230-01 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:33:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.49]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DBBB285FA71 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:33:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080613193832.OHLR16629.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:38:32 +0100 Received: from risco.home ([81.111.57.237]) by aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with SMTP id <20080613193607.BETY29365.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@risco.home> for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:36:07 +0100 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:28:17 +0100 (BST) From: Anthony Hilton Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Converting documents to Quark To: Ovation Pro List In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 752 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: ajh@tinshill.f9.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=9IXqiQiop7cA:10 a=6AePAfrS9bgA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=eS9rpW3SGjTkiDU01qEA:9 a=IdfR1hcMrW-mY5OjVhkA:7 a=H9wF1J4ZwUa4N5TnjTFXUMM3JHgA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1501] In on Thu 12 Jun, David Pilling wrote: > Hi, > > Someone has approached me with a book he has done in Impression. His > publishers want it in Quark format. The book is structured as lots of > frames with text in - there's no large body text that flows through the > document, instead each page has four non-linked frames with text in. > > I wondered if anyone has any suggestions as to how to tackle this > problem. > > I'm considering writing some software to help, if I do that I want to > make the software useful for the users of Ovation Pro. > > I can load the documents into Ovation Pro, the question is what format > to save them out in? > > Approaches I have tried and discarded are - print to PDF, PDF to Word > conversion (loses all the style information), save text as DDF, DDF to > Word using Techwriter (hard work because there are so many stories). I would have expected PDF to be the one which would best preserve layout and fonts, and I would expect Quark can import PDF. Why have you rejected that option? My next thought would be PS - can Quark import PostScript? It may require EPS and I don't think we've got a way of generating EPS except via Ghostscript and EPS is a single-page format so no help for this document. I don't know Impression so the following is purely my thought processes which you may already have been through :-) >From a DDF file is it possible to get the text into a single 'story'? Is it possible to save all the text from Impression in a single operation? Even if it resulted in multiple files combining them into one would be quite simple. Is it possible to remove the story end and start tags from a DDF file to make a single story? Back to the OPro theme - the Save as RTF I have (!MakeRTF from David Breakwell I believe) saves all stories into one file. A couple of test documents saved as RTF and read into OPro, and Techwriter on RISC OS and then Word 2003, Wordpad, and OpenOffice Writer on WinXP all have problems. Only OpenOffice Writer gets the layout of a single page letter with 2 stories nearly correct. None of them import the whole of the second test file - OPro displays all except the last page (2 stories), Techwriter, Wordpad and OpenOffice Writer stop at the same point (on page 4 of 18 in the original OPro doc) and Word only displays the paragraph which the others fail in the middle of, stopping at the same point. If you (David) are writing anything for OPro I would appreciate any improvement you can make to the Save as RTF option. Anthony -- ajh@tinshill.f9.co.uk To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 13 20:54:02 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K7FGq-1aeGPo-06-Blv.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:54:02 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K7FGq-1aeGPo-06-Blv; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:49:12 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K7FGq-1aeGPo-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:49:12 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K7FGo-0003fN-5h for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:49:12 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3AEA185F720; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:49:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11749-05; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:49:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A27E685FB37; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:49:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:48:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 59A1385F720 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11498-05 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.47]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D689185FB81 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 15:48:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080613195238.HWLQ28496.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:52:38 +0100 Received: from iyonix.ntlworld.com ([82.1.169.32]) by aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080613195745.MTUH8797.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@iyonix.ntlworld.com> for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:57:45 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Converting documents to Quark To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Dr Alan Leighton X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:50:43 +0100 Message-ID: <727ff2ae4f.alan@ntlworld.com> References: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 753 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: alan.leighton2@ntlworld.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=9IXqiQiop7cA:10 a=6AePAfrS9bgA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=Q-qYJwSi-BMwVH_McM4A:9 a=PmiaLOOs2s-vFlabt2cA:7 a=9cCqkeakN-V2-jt2N8voZStF-lQA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1501] In message Anthony Hilton wrote: > In on Thu 12 Jun, David Pilling wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Someone has approached me with a book he has done in Impression. His >> publishers want it in Quark format. The book is structured as lots of >> frames with text in - there's no large body text that flows through the >> document, instead each page has four non-linked frames with text in. >> >> I wondered if anyone has any suggestions as to how to tackle this >> problem. >> >> I'm considering writing some software to help, if I do that I want to >> make the software useful for the users of Ovation Pro. >> >> I can load the documents into Ovation Pro, the question is what format >> to save them out in? >> >> Approaches I have tried and discarded are - print to PDF, PDF to Word >> conversion (loses all the style information), save text as DDF, DDF to >> Word using Techwriter (hard work because there are so many stories). > I would have expected PDF to be the one which would best preserve layout and > fonts, and I would expect Quark can import PDF. Why have you rejected that > option? > My next thought would be PS - can Quark import PostScript? It may require EPS > and I don't think we've got a way of generating EPS except via Ghostscript > and EPS is a single-page format so no help for this document. > I don't know Impression so the following is purely my thought processes which > you may already have been through :-) > From a DDF file is it possible to get the text into a single 'story'? > Is it possible to save all the text from Impression in a single operation? > Even if it resulted in multiple files combining them into one would be quite > simple. > Is it possible to remove the story end and start tags from a DDF file to make > a single story? > Back to the OPro theme - the Save as RTF I have (!MakeRTF from David > Breakwell I believe) saves all stories into one file. A couple of test > documents saved as RTF and read into OPro, and Techwriter on RISC OS and then > Word 2003, Wordpad, and OpenOffice Writer on WinXP all have problems. Only > OpenOffice Writer gets the layout of a single page letter with 2 stories > nearly correct. None of them import the whole of the second test file - > OPro displays all except the last page (2 stories), Techwriter, Wordpad and > OpenOffice Writer stop at the same point (on page 4 of 18 in the original > OPro doc) and Word only displays the paragraph which the others fail in the > middle of, stopping at the same point. > If you (David) are writing anything for OPro I would appreciate any > improvement you can make to the Save as RTF option. > Anthony Gosh David that would really help, Alan (happy to donate) -- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 13 21:39:03 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K7Fzy-0UX000-02-B2n.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:39:03 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K7Fzy-0UX000-02-B2n; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:35:50 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K7Fzy-0UX000-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:35:50 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K7Fzs-0001AU-7L for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:35:50 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2495985FED3; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16423-06; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9376F85FF87; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:35:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:34:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 90A4D85FED3 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:34:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16059-09 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:34:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.87]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4341A85FE66 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:34:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) id 1K7Fz7-0005jx-PO for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:34:58 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:33:41 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Converting documents to Quark References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 754 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=9IXqiQiop7cA:10 a=6AePAfrS9bgA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=BpemzMJUwNMOKwlJ25cA:9 a=ArZYNZf5MB6FA3uPcSoA:7 a=JfiBMZiVKkzizjydSrTwY0EOyt0A:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1501] In message , Anthony Hilton writes >I would have expected PDF to be the one which would best preserve layout and >fonts, and I would expect Quark can import PDF. Why have you rejected that >option? In one sense PDF is 100% perfect, the problem is that it lacks understanding, for example it doesn't know about styles. >My next thought would be PS - can Quark import PostScript? PS and PDF are similar enough. >Is it possible to save all the text from Impression in a single operation? >Even if it resulted in multiple files combining them into one would be quite >simple. Paul Beverley used to maintain that one of the best features about Impression was that the folder/directory document format allowed easy extraction of all text. These days of course he maintains that MS Word is a good thing ;-) >If you (David) are writing anything for OPro I would appreciate any >improvement you can make to the Save as RTF option. Yes... -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 13 21:39:03 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K7G1v-2pGknw-07-B0q.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:39:03 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K7G1v-2pGknw-07-B0q; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:37:51 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K7G1v-2pGknw-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:37:51 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K7G1o-0000Db-Ht for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:37:51 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 192C685FE69; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:37:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16686-03; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:37:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 897CC85FF73; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:37:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:36:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0490885FE69 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:36:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16552-08 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:36:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BF6C385FE66 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:36:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1K7G11-0006pd-BW for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:36:55 +0000 Message-ID: <7tWkCbC$ntUIFwPd@pilling.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:35:11 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Converting documents to Quark References: <4fa253dd79chris@highpath.net> <4fa7c1ff54rkp@par.me.uk> <$0Y1kEDV0UQIFweu@pilling.demon.co.uk> <1C29EE614F1E490CB44C84BEE9477A11@PC01> <4fa9072a08chris@highpath.net> <4faa95cd8dchris@highpath.net> <4faebc43c0monster@caverock.net.nz> <48528C22.7000007@btinternet.com> In-Reply-To: <48528C22.7000007@btinternet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 755 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=9IXqiQiop7cA:10 a=6AePAfrS9bgA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=qInVw--bF8Mu4uUVu3oA:9 a=IWYysUcXqqzQVNQJJ3YA:7 a=PyPt7TbJtqoQdW-FHdqj0Ja54-QA:4 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1501] In message <48528C22.7000007@btinternet.com>, Phillip Marsden writes >> My other question (again from my idealistic viewpoint) - could the >> publishers really not handle using OvationPro themselves? >As for expecting the publisher to cope with Ovation Pro (which, for all >its delights, is a very minor player and one which the publisher has >probably never heard of) I despair that you could even make the >suggestion. :o( Actually they did seriously consider that (I didn't expect that either), as of today it looks like supplying a PDF may be good enough - obviously generating PDF is trivial. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 13 21:39:03 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K7G2Z-4SI000-03-B0C.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:39:03 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K7G2Z-4SI000-03-B0C; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:38:31 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K7G2Z-4SI000-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:38:31 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K7G2X-0003S8-AP for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:38:31 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EC98B85FEAF; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:38:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16853-06; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:38:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7150785FF03; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:38:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:37:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A2F6185FEAF for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16702-03 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.87]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A95BA85FF7F for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:37:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) id 1K7G1g-00014V-Ok for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:37:36 +0000 Message-ID: <89mlG7C+otUIFwvr@pilling.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:36:14 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Converting documents to Quark References: <9c45c3ae4f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> In-Reply-To: <9c45c3ae4f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 756 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=9IXqiQiop7cA:10 a=6AePAfrS9bgA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=qInVw--bF8Mu4uUVu3oA:9 a=b8-QIbeXT2i8KPLG9OMA:7 a=1d42arToqIDDiY7rk7_idVzmoA0A:4 a=fl4ZfBcLCrEA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1501] In message <9c45c3ae4f.martin@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin Wuerthner writes >Quark has a perfectly well documented text based DDL format that was >created for precisely the purpose of interoperability. Martin, are you thinking about QXML above, or some other format? -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 13 21:54:04 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K7GAq-0ue000-08-Arv.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:54:04 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K7GAq-0ue000-08-Arv; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:47:04 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K7GAq-0ue000-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:47:04 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K7GAo-0007W0-KV for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:47:04 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 508C285FC41; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:46:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18052-06; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:46:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C838985FE5A; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:46:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 66F0A85FC41 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:46:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17924-10 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:46:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sif.is.scarlet.be (sif.is.scarlet.be [193.74.71.28]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E77EC85F9EE for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:46:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hobbes (ip-81-11-160-30.dsl.scarlet.be [81.11.160.30]) by sif.is.scarlet.be (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m5DKkE9i030133 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:46:15 +0200 Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:46:07 +0200 From: John Tytgat To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Converting documents to Quark Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Organization: BASS User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.62 (MsgServe/2.05) (RISC-OS/6.11) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-DCC-scarlet.be-Metrics: sif 20001; Body=1 Fuz1=1 Fuz2=1 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 757 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: John.Tytgat@aaug.net Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=9IXqiQiop7cA:10 a=6AePAfrS9bgA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=7mELct32FYNU2S0oFHsA:9 a=dYTy4n07JyVgNbfJ__8A:7 a=ukpXc43Y0TYwVeqCB6zukPaxtsAA:4 a=O6VgNENP0SsA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1501] In message you wrote: > In message , Anthony Hilton > writes > > >My next thought would be PS - can Quark import PostScript? > > PS and PDF are similar enough. Similar in concept yes, apart from PS being a real language which needs an interpreter while PDF being a 'dead' file format which makes PS parsing at least an order of magnitude more difficult to get it right. John. -- John Tytgat, in his comfy chair at home BASS John.Tytgat@aaug.net ARM powered, RISC OS driven To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 15 11:59:17 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K7IdS-11hknw-02-Gvp.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2008 11:59:17 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K7IdS-11hknw-02-Gvp; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 23:24:46 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K7IdS-11hknw-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 23:24:46 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K7IdR-0005il-UY for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 23:24:46 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0DD6885F87A; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:24:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02319-08; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:24:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7942485FAF9; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:24:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:24:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 174CE85F87A for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:24:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02276-06 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:24:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail4.webfaction.com (mail4.webfaction.com [74.52.233.2]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D8BD085F82B for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:24:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from abacus.local (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail4.webfaction.com (8.13.1/8.13.3) with ESMTP id m5DNO13v032385 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:24:02 -0500 From: David Boddie To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Converting documents to Quark Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 01:23:59 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200806140123.59508.david@boddie.org.uk> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 758 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: david@boddie.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=9IXqiQiop7cA:10 a=6AePAfrS9bgA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=6effzY4tXdU6n2dqLZIA:9 a=6Un7BxamjUwV9TCDCJkA:7 a=HK25e2ah_8tYGtvNEjb-G7UGWMsA:4 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1503] On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:27:17 +0100, David Pilling wrote: > In message <200806130120.22487.david@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, David Boddie > writes > > The non-linked text problem or the interoperability with Quark problem? > > Well both. I know I wrote OP so that you can't link two frames which both > contain text - what a stupid limitation... :-( > > I suppose you'll either have to choose another intermediate format that > > can keep the layout information > > That format being? Good question! If the publisher can accept the QXML format that Andy mentioned then maybe that's the way to go. > > Is there any chance the publisher can accept another format that Quark > > can import fairly reliably? > > Well yes. One reason I ask the question here is that it gives you a chance > to say what you'd like, if I'm going to do any work it might as well be > useful to everyone. Fair enough. You might find it useful to write an exporter to produce files in a custom XML-based format for OP documents. That way other people can struggle with the task of targeting specific file formats without disturbing you too much - or perhaps you like doing this kind of conversion work. :-) > You might know what works well with Quark, or what would be useful in > general. Actually, I don't, but your question made me go and check to see what formats (if any) Scribus can export to, but I didn't see anything of use. It also made me remember a demonstration of application automation I'd seen, involving a DTP package on Windows, but that approach would require that _you_ are running Quark (on a Mac, I presume) and I didn't want to suggest that. ;-) David To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 15 11:59:18 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K7Ieu-43Cknw-01-GuN.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2008 11:59:18 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K7Ieu-43Cknw-01-GuN; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 23:26:16 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K7Ieu-43Cknw-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 23:26:16 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K7Iet-0000yT-KY for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 23:26:16 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C161A85F935; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02578-08; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4500385FAD6; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:26:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:25:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8AD9685F935 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:25:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02494-03 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:25:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail6.inspire.net.nz (mail6.inspire.net.nz [203.114.168.6]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3917D85F8E1 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2008 19:25:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail5.inspire.net.nz (unknown [10.0.168.5]) by mail6.inspire.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB17A2AAE6E for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:25:34 +1200 (NZST) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.0.168.8]) by mail5.inspire.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8DA6DBA97 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:25:34 +1200 (NZST) Received: from mail5.inspire.net.nz ([10.0.168.5]) by localhost (mail8.inspire.net.nz [10.0.168.8]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lsINo8rkm5Fv for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:21:25 +1200 (NZST) Received: from freja.khnet.nz (203-114-180-66.dsl.sta.inspire.net.nz [203.114.180.66]) by mail5.inspire.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B9ACDBA7C for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:25:34 +1200 (NZST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Keith Hopper To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:26:34 +1200 Subject: [softwarelist] Unwanted font definitions Message-ID: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.11) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 759 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: asgard@inspire.net.nz Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=JWsgKG8mJtRzwiF2OSUA:9 a=M0Hhp9vuQrejQ33gAhAA:7 a=bt2VUxqdHoIFU4SDgt35_3DnAUQA:4 a=SKpDKCWXRSQA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1503] Greetings, I realise that I should have known this before - but didn't. When the only font referred to in a document is NOT Trinity, OvnPro puts out a font list (in a DDL file and a Postscript file anyway) including Trinity Medium/Bold/Italic. I only discovered this when a document wouldn't convert to PDF with PDFmaker (a Ghostscript error). Although the Postscript printed happily and converted with other converters PDFmaker objected. I tracked this down to the presence of Trinity Italic Smallcaps (with Rcomp Andrew's help) which was the 'default' italic for Trinity - which wasn't used in the document at all and was not referrred to in any style or any effect! Am I being obtuse in thinking that the font list should only include fonts which are actually used in the document - after all it just unnecessarily bloats output files?? Puzzled!! Keith -- Inspired! To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 15 11:59:22 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K7TXU-1kpVbs-01-EYJ.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2008 11:59:22 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K7TXU-1kpVbs-01-EYJ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:03:20 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K7TXU-1kpVbs-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:03:20 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K7TXT-0005qc-Ho for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 11:03:20 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 032C285FC92; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 07:03:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10983-04; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 07:03:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7E9F585FD10; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 07:03:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 14 Jun 2008 07:02:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8504185FC92 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 07:02:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10925-03 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 07:02:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ipmail04.adl2.internode.on.net (ipmail04.adl2.internode.on.net [203.16.214.57]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E1E9085FC56 for ; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 07:02:39 -0400 (EDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Au0AAMtBU0h5LAKu/2dsb2JhbAAIrRU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,643,1204464600"; d="scan'208";a="133939459" Received: from ppp121-44-2-174.lns10.syd7.internode.on.net (HELO [127.0.0.1]) ([121.44.2.174]) by ipmail04.adl2.internode.on.net with ESMTP; 14 Jun 2008 20:32:36 +0930 Message-ID: <4853A54E.3000101@internode.on.net> Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 21:02:38 +1000 From: Peter Prewett User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Converting documents to Quark References: <200806140123.59508.david@boddie.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <200806140123.59508.david@boddie.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 760 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: pprewett@internode.on.net Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=9IXqiQiop7cA:10 a=6AePAfrS9bgA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=3I-uBpoh-vkl_P0HpwQA:9 a=EBfbFyo05pQsHcXPCVUA:7 a=_uQhOkkRE1yn0Ut-fIxodRBH4yoA:4 a=gi0PWCVxevcA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1503] I have struggled to get my creations to other platforms and wonder if the new/proposed open standard is the best option to be implemented. Peter -- Peter Prewett, Tumut, New South Wales To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 15 14:14:21 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K7rzu-0Rj000-02-FfR.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2008 14:14:21 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K7rzu-0Rj000-02-FfR; Sun, 15 Jun 2008 13:10:18 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K7rzu-0Rj000-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 15 Jun 2008 13:10:18 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K7rzu-00025P-7G for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 15 Jun 2008 13:10:18 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B7B7F85FD13 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:10:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24433-08 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:10:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8C88785FD95 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:10:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:09:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 98A0D85FD13 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:09:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24391-02 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:09:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.87]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6129685E0E0 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2008 09:09:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) id 1K7rzF-00024S-O3 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 15 Jun 2008 13:09:37 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 14:08:02 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 761 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=7O1lIW1slf7aLosoPHYA:9 a=9DQHPW1czgysHj2GRXkA:7 a=zWOBW_5Ih5Csq7KrJk_u1_bNyQkA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1503] In message <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz>, Keith Hopper writes > I realise that I should have known this before - but didn't. When the >only font referred to in a document is NOT Trinity, OvnPro puts out a font >list (in a DDL file and a Postscript file anyway) including Trinity >Medium/Bold/Italic. There is a long running bug, where OPro thinks documents use fonts which they don't - it arises because OPro loses count, you know you once used Trinity in a document but deleted all the uses and OPro still sees it as used. One problem with this bug is that it can have many causes and even when some of the causes are fixed, old documents are not fixed. Incidentally there is also of course the situation where you do use Trinity, but you don't notice it - an empty frame somewhere. Saving the document as DDL will firstly let you see what fonts OPro thinks are used, but also will let you see where various fonts are used - notice the name given to the font, and then look for uses of that name. I think that save as DDL, reload DDL will recount the fonts. Plan B, is uninstall the font, load the document (OPro will complain about the missing font), then save the document. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 17 11:49:52 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K8PQB-2Bqknw-08-GLE.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:49:52 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K8PQB-2Bqknw-08-GLE; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 00:51:39 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K8PQB-2Bqknw-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 00:51:39 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K8PQB-0006ta-7I for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 00:51:39 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5DE2085F7A6 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:51:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03466-06 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:51:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 32EEC860DA2 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:51:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:50:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5FABB860B9F for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:50:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03383-02 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:50:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail6.inspire.net.nz (mail6.inspire.net.nz [203.114.168.6]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D0E01860226 for ; Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:50:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail5.inspire.net.nz (unknown [10.0.168.5]) by mail6.inspire.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 770F02AB0AD for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:50:56 +1200 (NZST) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.0.168.8]) by mail5.inspire.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6719CDBAD2 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:50:56 +1200 (NZST) Received: from mail5.inspire.net.nz ([10.0.168.5]) by localhost (mail8.inspire.net.nz [10.0.168.8]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0EFUmqhmPYu8 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:46:43 +1200 (NZST) Received: from freja.khnet.nz (203-114-180-66.dsl.sta.inspire.net.nz [203.114.180.66]) by mail5.inspire.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1CC1DBAA8 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:50:55 +1200 (NZST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Keith Hopper To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:51:58 +1200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions Message-ID: <4fb099961easgard@inspire.net.nz> In-Reply-To: References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.11) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 762 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: asgard@inspire.net.nz Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=6QPBqKu_3M-TWeyFbeMA:9 a=n6hdrVq9-Ix97TYrwK8A:7 a=TWc5yZBIpM-T0TiuiU84kEJlsN8A:4 a=SKpDKCWXRSQA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1503] Greetings, In response to my note - > In message <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz>, Keith Hopper > writes > > I realise that I should have known this before - but didn't. When the > >only font referred to in a document is NOT Trinity, OvnPro puts out a font > >list (in a DDL file and a Postscript file anyway) including Trinity > >Medium/Bold/Italic. David responded, writing - > There is a long running bug, where OPro thinks documents use fonts which > they don't - it arises because OPro loses count, you know you once used > Trinity in a document but deleted all the uses and OPro still sees it as > used. > One problem with this bug is that it can have many causes and even when > some of the causes are fixed, old documents are not fixed. > Incidentally there is also of course the situation where you do use > Trinity, but you don't notice it - an empty frame somewhere. > Saving the document as DDL will firstly let you see what fonts OPro > thinks are used, but also will let you see where various fonts are used > - notice the name given to the font, and then look for uses of that > name. > I think that save as DDL, reload DDL will recount the fonts. > Plan B, is uninstall the font, load the document (OPro will complain > about the missing font), then save the document. Unfortunately neither Plan A nor Plan B work. If I take the default (empty) document, remove every reference to Trinity from every style - in fact not setting font changes in any except the Body (which I set to LondonA - an EFF font) - and save as default. If I load this saved default and save as DDL then Trinity flavours appear in the font list (together with the one for LondonA) - BUT nowhere else in the DDL document - which is empty, of course! LondonA appears, as expected, in the Bodytext style. This does not appear to be a case of deleting fonts leaving something around in memory which OvnPro writes out. I just load the default - save as DDL - with the results I describe above. It doesn't matter even if I quit and reload OvnPro between saving the default and loading it again. If I delete the unused font references from the DDL, quit OvnPro - and reload the DDL file - then save it out again as DDL - the Trinity font references appear again. Interesting! No?! Keith -- Inspired! To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 17 11:50:11 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K8XNF-3NKVbs-04-Gug.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:50:11 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K8XNF-3NKVbs-04-Gug; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:21:09 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K8XNF-3NKVbs-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:21:09 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K8XND-0003DN-TC for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:21:09 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 99E0886115D for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13639-09 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7AC078611AB for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:20:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 84BD886115D for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:20:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13556-08 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:20:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp4.clear.net.nz (smtp4.clear.net.nz [203.97.37.64]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3907C861115 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:20:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Iyonix (121-72-169-114.dsl.telstraclear.net [121.72.169.114]) by smtp4.clear.net.nz (CLEAR Net Mail) with ESMTP id <0K2L00GJKOJL1DX2@smtp4.clear.net.nz> for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:18:58 +1200 (NZST) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:18:54 +1200 From: "lists (ww)" Subject: [softwarelist] OPro Printing to PDF Problem To: davidpilling@freelists.org Message-id: <4fb0c7ff97lists@ww.co.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.4 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 763 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists@ww.co.nz Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=3r2UrHLz308A:10 a=uSkscsncRCUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=Xce4iIkDaGQW-Pvn8YMA:9 a=r5OkTxxkiSHuQWm1uXwA:7 a=jy_a6EjAyKoAQCgB08bmEF4YNiwA:4 a=-VkOLjBb71gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1505] OPro crashes my Iyonix when I go to print a file to PDF. 'Ovation Pro ... internal error ... type 5 ...' and the machine becomes useless. On one occasion I was faced with a red screen and with filer windows faintly visible. A reset is required each time. Whereas, another OPro file I have prints successfully to PDF. To check this, I just tried it again now. So it's apparently the actual document. I tried saving it as DDL. Same error - machine crashes. How can I 'clean up' this problematic OPro document? OPro 2.77 PrintPDF v0.45 then upgraded to PrintPDF v0.52 same result GPL Ghostscript 8.54 - RISC OS 1.04 Printers v1.72 PrintSpool v2.14 RO 5.13 Brian -- Auckland NEW ZEALAND To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 17 11:50:12 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K8XRo-1rPGPo-03-Gq7.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:50:12 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K8XRo-1rPGPo-03-Gq7; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:25:52 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K8XRo-1rPGPo-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:25:52 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K8XRn-0003DN-Jd for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:25:52 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0A81D860D96 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:25:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14076-03 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:25:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DDDCD861275 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:25:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:25:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 18EB286128A for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:25:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13943-07 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:25:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp4.clear.net.nz (smtp4.clear.net.nz [203.97.37.64]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C53D28611C0 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:25:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Iyonix (121-72-169-114.dsl.telstraclear.net [121.72.169.114]) by smtp4.clear.net.nz (CLEAR Net Mail) with ESMTP id <0K2L00GF0OTY14S1@smtp4.clear.net.nz> for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:25:11 +1200 (NZST) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:24:58 +1200 From: "lists (ww)" Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro Printing to PDF Problem In-reply-to: <4fb0c7ff97lists@ww.co.nz> To: davidpilling@freelists.org Message-id: <4fb0c88da3lists@ww.co.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain References: <4fb0c7ff97lists@ww.co.nz> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.4 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 764 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists@ww.co.nz Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=19xg_O8F3_cA:10 a=UHMdWZNeLDkA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=zQg0Z5CDAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=3UNdf22dZ9c6Ka1Bd98A:9 a=Ah_OkJawi9uM8EOHM1wA:7 a=WG6C1AyqCJYbtiMRR8Zo7gsxnhEA:4 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1505] On 17 Jun, lists@ww.co.nz wrote: > OPro crashes my Iyonix In case it helps, here's the file: Brian -- Brian Adam Auckland NEW ZEALAND ph +64 9 817 6816 brian@adam.co.nz www.adam.co.nz To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 17 11:50:12 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K8XZP-3LMVbs-06-GiW.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:50:12 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K8XZP-3LMVbs-06-GiW; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:33:43 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K8XZP-3LMVbs-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:33:43 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K8XZL-0003nf-Py for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:33:43 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EFE2086120E for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14702-07 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C9A9E861320 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:33:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:32:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 510DD86120E for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:32:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14529-08 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:32:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E6D7E8612B8 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:32:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bach ([91.66.127.197]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu3) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKxQS-1K8XYf3ISy-00011p; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:32:57 +0200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Martin Wuerthner X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:33:05 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+mf+6jZBJ3sUThItM+6562ezJJPjEgubuGrKg fAXy7aqn5bmFCsStAPavMrRer3oVFUu9wRR4j8Bp+WLm46L8vD HPH22fvhOZfc77CCnhygju4oe4G874i X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 765 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: public@mw-software.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=MbxN5axi5Ssu9obYp7YA:9 a=7QAUuNiukc-sJQhLWTYA:7 a=EgL1gWlxylHpRyvfcCX9EiDYZT8A:4 a=fl4ZfBcLCrEA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1505] In message <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> Keith Hopper wrote: > I realise that I should have known this before - but didn't. When the > only font referred to in a document is NOT Trinity, OvnPro puts out a font > list (in a DDL file and a Postscript file anyway) including Trinity > Medium/Bold/Italic. > I only discovered this when a document wouldn't convert to PDF with > PDFmaker (a Ghostscript error). Although the Postscript printed happily and > converted with other converters PDFmaker objected. I tracked this down to > the presence of Trinity Italic Smallcaps (with Rcomp Andrew's help) which > was the 'default' italic for Trinity - which wasn't used in the document at > all and was not referrred to in any style or any effect! While it may be an annoyance that the font is considered used even though it is not, why should that cause any problems with PDF generation? What error does Ghostscript display? Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 17 11:50:12 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K8XZQ-1dnGPo-01-GiV.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:50:12 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K8XZQ-1dnGPo-01-GiV; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:33:44 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K8XZQ-1dnGPo-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:33:44 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K8XZQ-0003qO-8e for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:33:44 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id AD17F8611EA for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:33:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14720-05 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:33:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8A1468612B8 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:33:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:33:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D506C8611EA for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:33:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14547-09 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:33:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.177]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 78F928612FD for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:33:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bach ([91.66.127.197]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu3) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKxQS-1K8XYf1jEt-00011p; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:32:57 +0200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro Printing to PDF Problem To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Martin Wuerthner X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:30:14 +0200 Message-ID: <3109c9b04f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> References: <4fb0c7ff97lists@ww.co.nz> In-Reply-To: <4fb0c7ff97lists@ww.co.nz> X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX187swmO4jlfsjNY7GF4LIHzjn1qdde/uypLozE Jc2A2jlaY/n9s1SoMPBhnGsa/sjgzHWSnZ6E0IBSqgSYsZxD0t px9vE1UvDZSsRJJWbZAO5mcbh6M8rJL X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 766 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: public@mw-software.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=19xg_O8F3_cA:10 a=UHMdWZNeLDkA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=xGziP2Yt5CxBzklUXxsA:9 a=TL02Bx17OYBHMhGxG2kA:7 a=kR2H5GgjftJi6UO-oBBBEs40h44A:4 a=fl4ZfBcLCrEA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1505] In message <4fb0c7ff97lists@ww.co.nz> "lists (ww)" wrote: > OPro crashes my Iyonix when I go to print a file to PDF. 'Ovation Pro > ... internal error ... type 5 ...' and the machine becomes useless. On > one occasion I was faced with a red screen and with filer windows > faintly visible. A reset is required each time. > Whereas, another OPro file I have prints successfully to PDF. To > check this, I just tried it again now. > So it's apparently the actual document. > I tried saving it as DDL. Same error - machine crashes. So, it looks like the document is broken and it might not be connected with PDF at all. For instance, have you tried printing it using a different printer driver? Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 17 11:50:13 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K8Xei-35W000-07-GdD.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:50:13 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K8Xei-35W000-07-GdD; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:39:12 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K8Xei-35W000-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:39:12 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K8Xei-0005ed-57 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:39:12 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7ECB986135F for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:39:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15200-03 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:39:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 54574861357 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:39:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:38:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 407058612A3 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:38:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15083-02 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:38:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.188]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E20328611B0 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:38:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bach ([91.66.127.197]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu6) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0ML29c-1K8Xe22TcP-0004iz; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:38:30 +0200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro Printing to PDF Problem To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Martin Wuerthner X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:39:02 +0200 Message-ID: <3ed7c9b04f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> References: <4fb0c7ff97lists@ww.co.nz> <4fb0c88da3lists@ww.co.nz> In-Reply-To: <4fb0c88da3lists@ww.co.nz> X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19C6fFviMh/cfIUgjb+JwETYnM3gtgqXVEfUNT B8Iulsj2o5WaTihqqWEloj/JCiWF9tz5gOqHAR+cXgCI7LL+gR FQq5WPU5MK+q0JUnPs8JHEEOwnWtdF/ X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 767 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: public@mw-software.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=19xg_O8F3_cA:10 a=UHMdWZNeLDkA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=zQg0Z5CDAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=VdWJmBLOb4P0I0OLKeEA:9 a=7V05qMrLeqaJeTz3tjEA:7 a=TZChzwbiIy83glDGzgeXqhJ3OREA:4 a=fl4ZfBcLCrEA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1505] In message <4fb0c88da3lists@ww.co.nz> "lists (ww)" wrote: > On 17 Jun, lists@ww.co.nz wrote: >> OPro crashes my Iyonix > In case it helps, here's the file: > Prints to PDF and saves as DDL fine here (with the Gen.XCrumble font being substituted though because I do not have it). OP2.77. Iyonix RISC OS 5.11. The most likely candidate for causing the problem is the font. Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 17 11:50:16 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K8YTz-4fX000-03-Fnw.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:50:16 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K8YTz-4fX000-03-Fnw; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:32:11 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K8YTz-4fX000-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:32:11 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K8YTz-0002Ik-Aq for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:32:11 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C82DA861122 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:32:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19064-08 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:32:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9E8C8861194 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:32:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:31:31 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7C9F4861122 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:31:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18989-06 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:31:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 47E53860D6A for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 06:31:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from watsnees.demon.co.uk ([80.177.152.227] helo=panther) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1K8YTH-00056P-Fv for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:31:30 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Frank Watkinson To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:31:19 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro Printing to PDF Problem Message-ID: <4fb0cea080frank@aaug.net> In-Reply-To: <4fb0c7ff97lists@ww.co.nz> References: <4fb0c7ff97lists@ww.co.nz> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.10) POPstar/2.04-pre2 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 768 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: frank@aaug.net Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=19xg_O8F3_cA:10 a=UHMdWZNeLDkA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=HkQvZcby1pRLe4SVWR0A:9 a=5ptfln_OzAiJfVg3wJcA:7 a=LxXi_XnbC2mrcu7dzXSf1Vr6mo8A:4 a=GFAvb1UtWpQA:10 a=O6VgNENP0SsA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1505] In article <4fb0c7ff97lists@ww.co.nz>, lists (ww) wrote: > OPro crashes my Iyonix when I go to print a file to PDF. 'Ovation Pro > ... internal error ... type 5 ...' and the machine becomes useless. On > one occasion I was faced with a red screen and with filer windows > faintly visible. A reset is required each time. > Whereas, another OPro file I have prints successfully to PDF. To > check this, I just tried it again now. > So it's apparently the actual document. > I tried saving it as DDL. Same error - machine crashes. > How can I 'clean up' this problematic OPro document? > OPro 2.77 > PrintPDF v0.45 then upgraded to > PrintPDF v0.52 same result > GPL Ghostscript 8.54 - RISC OS 1.04 > Printers v1.72 > PrintSpool v2.14 > RO 5.13 > Brian No problem here, but this may be due to the font substitution necessary because of the absence of 2 fonts (Gen.XCrumble ... ). The "..." presumably represents the second font to be substituted. The temporary replacement fonts in the document tested here, are 12pt London A (for two styles), and 10pt Trinity (for the third style). Have you used !FontPrint either to map the non-standard fonts in your document to some other PostScript font , or to specifically "Download" them to the PostScript printer driver when starting up !Printers? PrintPDF 0.45 OPro 2.77 (2-June-2006) AFPL GhostScript 8.53 - RISC OS 1.03 (21-Apr-06) Printers 1.72 PostScript Level 2 RISC OS 5.10 Are the above differences significant? The resulting file/pdf loads satisfactorily in !RiScript, !PDF and Acrobat Reader 8.0.0 (on Windows via UniLaunch - part of UniPrint). Regards. Frank. -- Frank Watkinson. email: Using !Pluto 3.04c on Iyonix 5.10. Also VARPC-Adjust on laptop. Still RPC-SA (4.39 Adjust) for some things. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 17 12:19:12 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K8ZD9-3ijknw-03-F4m.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:19:12 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K8ZD9-3ijknw-03-F4m; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:18:51 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K8ZD9-3ijknw-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:18:51 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K8ZD8-0004pB-MA for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:18:51 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 169208610E3 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 07:18:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23272-01 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 07:18:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DFCBE86073D for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 07:18:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 17 Jun 2008 07:18:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2E385860D98 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 07:18:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23119-09 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 07:18:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.87]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id F04BE860B0B for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 07:18:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) id 1K8ZCT-0004uI-Nz for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 11:18:09 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 12:16:32 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb099961easgard@inspire.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <4fb099961easgard@inspire.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 769 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=uPP9lgsL02eD5l_uXMcA:9 a=aYNwKY87mXA4gTMlEl0A:7 a=RHc7XiJcKhbdAEpRZ8L0h2f-AjgA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1505] In message <4fb099961easgard@inspire.net.nz>, Keith Hopper writes > Unfortunately neither Plan A nor Plan B work. If I take the default >(empty) document, remove every reference to Trinity from every style - in >fact not setting font changes in any except the Body (which I set to >LondonA - an EFF font) - and save as default. If I load this saved default >and save as DDL then Trinity flavours appear in the font list (together >with the one for LondonA) - BUT nowhere else in the DDL document - which is >empty, of course! LondonA appears, as expected, in the Bodytext style. You're right. I think the problem is that Trinity is a special case, when DDL is loaded a very basic document is created and the DDL then overwrites it, Trinity is the default font for that document. I don't understand why "flavours" of Trinity are used, in my test it is just one weight. Plan A would have worked for any font other than this default. I did find that Plan B worked, the only catch there I can think of is that I used OP on Windows. (Plan B is easy on Windows, the OPW font manager lets you ignore fonts, on RISC OS it would involve removing font files and then rebooting the computer, given the font is Trinity you might find the machine wouldn't reboot...) There is a case to be made that this doesn't matter - Trinity maps to Times which is a font I assume is present in all PostScript printers and does not need to be saved in the PostScript. However for you maybe it comes back to the weights - all the weights being used, and I guess you having an odd version of the font installed i.e. one with a smallcaps weight. >DDL - with the results I describe above. It doesn't matter even if I quit >and reload OvnPro between saving the default and loading it again. Counts are per document so quiting and reloading should not make any differentce. Maybe on RISC OS !FontPrint would be a quick fix, use it to map Trinity.SmallCaps to Trinity.Italic, a harmless reference will be added to your PostScript. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 17 20:21:39 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K8gX8-3JX000-08-GHJ.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:21:39 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K8gX8-3JX000-08-GHJ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:07:58 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K8gX8-3JX000-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:07:58 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K8gX5-0003cK-5y for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 19:07:57 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 061BE8616E5; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:07:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15246-01; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:07:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CC1F886166B; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:07:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:07:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C062A861656 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14973-04 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp801.mail.ird.yahoo.com (smtp801.mail.ird.yahoo.com [217.146.188.61]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with SMTP id 4DF47861608 for ; Tue, 17 Jun 2008 15:07:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 48392 invoked from network); 17 Jun 2008 19:07:09 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Subject:To:From:X-Editor:Date:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=6fXdCD5MwuVfDpBpQ+AQfFg8Rm/gzbi/6uVmvhFIZaJb/m4btDp56hopws2kGkn9kTcaMKjEPns8ugmGEMSMlAMW7qjv91h5mRuCw9rYhS+jPzxJtRMSEpqUozgoqWzRtnyKI6txhBq7OiZxnPwG4HeE6LmPBz6TwSR9/rcGSXk= ; Received: from unknown (HELO MyIyonix.btinternet.com) (bryanpage1@btinternet.com@86.153.246.138 with login) by smtp801.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jun 2008 19:07:08 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 2wQyud8VM1l94FXpcjm9.oq7fq27rHa5svIJqeFhw_ZacA6Bc_mRlrx7nnXKYi.Eg4fDYy74YTYiFSDUHyKrEnfW1YBcAbZS30Xmus9vCRFlSOH5G0VPINkrOu73DfMVprQeIbDm6cVsCw5gyzFrVnR1 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro Printing to PDF Problem To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Bryan X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:05:56 +0100 Message-ID: <2bbefdb04f.Bryan@btinternet.com> References: <4fb0c7ff97lists@ww.co.nz> <4fb0c88da3lists@ww.co.nz> In-Reply-To: <4fb0c88da3lists@ww.co.nz> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 770 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: bryanpage1@btinternet.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=19xg_O8F3_cA:10 a=UHMdWZNeLDkA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=zQg0Z5CDAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=VdWJmBLOb4P0I0OLKeEA:9 a=mORqSfqaYZQh5oGni38A:7 a=2fAMJbCbojnakn38arUG9R7B5FUA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1505] In message <4fb0c88da3lists@ww.co.nz> "lists (ww)" wrote: > On 17 Jun, lists@ww.co.nz wrote: >> OPro crashes my Iyonix > In case it helps, here's the file: > > Brian [snip] I've just loaded your Ovation Pro document and written it to a PDF file with no problem at all, using: Iyonix (Aria Cube) RO 5.13 Ovation Pro 2.77 PrintPDF 0.32 Ghostscript 8.45 Printers 1.72 Bryan -- Using an Iyonix Aria Cube running Risc OS 5.13 and Virtual RPC AdjustSA running RO 6.10 on a PC. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 18 11:40:35 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K8pYH-39tknw-03-Fmg.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:40:35 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K8pYH-39tknw-03-Fmg; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 04:45:45 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K8pYH-39tknw-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 04:45:45 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K8pYH-0007gC-45 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 04:45:45 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 82049860990 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 00:45:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25057-05 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 00:45:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6329386098C for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 00:45:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 18 Jun 2008 00:45:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id AA3E2860990 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 00:45:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24933-05 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 00:45:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp3.clear.net.nz (smtp3.clear.net.nz [203.97.33.64]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5BD7386068F for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 00:45:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Iyonix (121-72-174-128.dsl.telstraclear.net [121.72.174.128]) by smtp3.clear.net.nz (CLEAR Net Mail) with ESMTP id <0K2N004176J33940@smtp3.clear.net.nz> for davidpilling@freelists.org; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:45:04 +1200 (NZST) Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 16:44:53 +1200 From: "lists (ww)" Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro Printing to PDF Problem In-reply-to: <3109c9b04f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> To: davidpilling@freelists.org Message-id: <4fb132bef6lists@ww.co.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain References: <4fb0c7ff97lists@ww.co.nz> <3109c9b04f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.4 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 771 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists@ww.co.nz Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=19xg_O8F3_cA:10 a=UHMdWZNeLDkA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=5Vmu9-n7JnGelM7afyEA:9 a=MAh-jbWpTohs00PcZx0A:7 a=NwEHjPCHia5ZJuDT0VUhKdqzzbEA:4 a=fl4ZfBcLCrEA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1505] On 17 Jun, Martin Wuerthner wrote: > So, it looks like the document is broken and it might not be > connected with PDF at all. For instance, have you tried printing it > using a different printer driver? > Martin Yes. Sprinter 'prints' it. I have now decided that it is the funny fonts in my document that caused the problem with this file (though I don't see why OP crashes taking the OS down as well). I have now removed them in the OPro doc and edited out or substituted LondonA in the DDL file. Then it converted to pdf. Thanks to all. Brian -- Auckland NEW ZEALAND To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 18 11:40:40 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K8sTj-0sd000-07-CrE.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:40:40 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K8sTj-0sd000-07-CrE; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 07:53:15 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K8sTj-0sd000-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 07:53:15 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K8sTf-0007c9-I8 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 07:53:15 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0840F860A8C for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 03:53:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02876-10 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 03:53:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DCD7E860375 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 03:53:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 18 Jun 2008 03:52:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D84C7860A8C for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 03:52:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02841-01 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 03:52:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.171]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7668285FB85 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 03:52:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bach (88-134-52-30-dynip.superkabel.de [88.134.52.30]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu7) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0ML2xA-1K8sT00ARv-0005US; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 09:52:30 +0200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro Printing to PDF Problem To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Martin Wuerthner X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 09:48:30 +0200 Message-ID: <878e43b14f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> References: <4fb0c7ff97lists@ww.co.nz> <3109c9b04f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <4fb132bef6lists@ww.co.nz> In-Reply-To: <4fb132bef6lists@ww.co.nz> X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18osn9qBQc/y5zoGBZWot9fCT05yF/DWirleBV ibA1uK8ng6o93CMuTi4kx6P3HOqtVI5570K+1glAJh3Ir7tb0e hWtSYrZoMcp6hPM1n2dClbIF8PqeNKy X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 772 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: public@mw-software.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=19xg_O8F3_cA:10 a=UHMdWZNeLDkA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=NeczVMBWGUkmSga7RcgA:9 a=k1I14GoVtLMn0KjsZ18A:7 a=wO1OkczCH8-f6QYFwfzpc3bU6PoA:4 a=fl4ZfBcLCrEA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.3.0/1505] In message <4fb132bef6lists@ww.co.nz> "lists (ww)" wrote: > On 17 Jun, Martin Wuerthner wrote: >> So, it looks like the document is broken and it might not be >> connected with PDF at all. For instance, have you tried printing it >> using a different printer driver? >> Martin > Yes. Sprinter 'prints' it. > I have now decided that it is the funny fonts in my document that > caused the problem with this file (though I don't see why OP crashes > taking the OS down as well). That is probably not OP's fault. At a guess, it is the printer driver crashing, and this is almost bound to take down the OS. I would like to see this font, could you send it to me please? Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 19 12:00:03 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K95sD-2IoGPo-01-GVm.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:00:03 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K95sD-2IoGPo-01-GVm; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:11:25 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K95sD-2IoGPo-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:11:25 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K95sD-0000Ut-0Z for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:11:25 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 72EA0861F40 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:11:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17316-06 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:11:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 523C98620F3 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:11:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:10:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 45768861F40 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:10:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17213-09 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:10:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.188]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5A2BB861929 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 18:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bach (88-134-174-48-dynip.superkabel.de [88.134.174.48]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu6) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0ML29c-1K95rR1Q8p-0004uk; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 00:10:37 +0200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OPro Printing to PDF Problem To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Martin Wuerthner X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 00:11:05 +0200 Message-ID: <618792b14f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> References: <4fb0c7ff97lists@ww.co.nz> <3109c9b04f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <4fb132bef6lists@ww.co.nz> In-Reply-To: <4fb132bef6lists@ww.co.nz> X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/IUZ7G4xhIpJN3DLHk3uiut3E1FSSoUsnBrzV A93gV+uYwb6LdCcbPANX85z2FqUQTd47/PChD+uOST2/sFSYLw pXMyHvEpVTN7mKyicnT9ubz+CjJr/lr X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 773 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: public@mw-software.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=19xg_O8F3_cA:10 a=UHMdWZNeLDkA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=SqkqpzWlYVH61suWFSsA:9 a=WQdPtLf6uI5XUWqlirsA:7 a=heWLrKZM6pKmixi-v3PKT--kw5oA:4 a=fl4ZfBcLCrEA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.4.0/1509] In message <4fb132bef6lists@ww.co.nz> "lists (ww)" wrote: > On 17 Jun, Martin Wuerthner wrote: >> So, it looks like the document is broken and it might not be >> connected with PDF at all. For instance, have you tried printing it >> using a different printer driver? > Yes. Sprinter 'prints' it. > I have now decided that it is the funny fonts in my document that > caused the problem with this file Yes, this Gen.XCrumble font always brings the machine down when printing to the PostScript driver no matter from which application you print. It crashes Draw as well. So, it is neither a problem with OP nor with this particular document. Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 19 12:00:30 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K99ZT-1SBGPo-03-CoW.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:00:30 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K99ZT-1SBGPo-03-CoW; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 02:08:19 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K99ZT-1SBGPo-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 02:08:19 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K99ZS-00035n-Sy for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 02:08:19 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8A570861FD3 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:08:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01518-03 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:08:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 60E53861FA9 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:08:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:07:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B2B24862077 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:07:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01349-10 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:07:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail6.inspire.net.nz (mail6.inspire.net.nz [203.114.168.6]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 32F9E862089 for ; Wed, 18 Jun 2008 22:07:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail5.inspire.net.nz (unknown [10.0.168.5]) by mail6.inspire.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC3942AAC44 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:07:35 +1200 (NZST) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.0.168.8]) by mail5.inspire.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id D49423823E3 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:07:35 +1200 (NZST) Received: from mail5.inspire.net.nz ([10.0.168.5]) by localhost (mail8.inspire.net.nz [10.0.168.8]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ktJq27BkIYOd for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:03:20 +1200 (NZST) Received: from freja.khnet.nz (203-114-180-66.dsl.sta.inspire.net.nz [203.114.180.66]) by mail5.inspire.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6879B3823E2 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:07:35 +1200 (NZST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Keith Hopper To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:08:40 +1200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions Message-ID: <4fb1a847abasgard@inspire.net.nz> In-Reply-To: References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb099961easgard@inspire.net.nz> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.11) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 774 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: asgard@inspire.net.nz Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=bgbntynrthHiG4Pb6eAA:9 a=4vEimKcKenPsH8zSdboA:7 a=g5yWwbO04D8yopgygVFMRDdkvScA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.4.0/1509] In article , David Pilling wrote: > In message <4fb099961easgard@inspire.net.nz>, Keith Hopper > writes > > Unfortunately neither Plan A nor Plan B work. If I take the default > >(empty) document, remove every reference to Trinity from every style - in > >fact not setting font changes in any except the Body (which I set to > >LondonA - an EFF font) - and save as default. If I load this saved default > >and save as DDL then Trinity flavours appear in the font list (together > >with the one for LondonA) - BUT nowhere else in the DDL document - which is > >empty, of course! LondonA appears, as expected, in the Bodytext style. > You're right. I think the problem is that Trinity is a special case, > when DDL is loaded a very basic document is created and the DDL then > overwrites it, Trinity is the default font for that document. I don't > understand why "flavours" of Trinity are used, in my test it is just one > weight. The DDL file contains // Text styles etc. FONT_29e={font "Trinity.Medium.Italic"} FONT_8f3b={font "Trinity.Medium"} FONT_948e={font "Trinity.Bold"} FONT_a99c={font "Londona"} I note with interest that others trying to print to PDF (I presume with something like PDFMaker) are having similar problems to me. Sometimes a document with LondonA will print, sometimes not and I think this is something to do with the fonts generated in the Postscript. > There is a case to be made that this doesn't matter - Trinity maps to > Times which is a font I assume is present in all PostScript printers and > does not need to be saved in the PostScript. However for you maybe it > comes back to the weights - all the weights being used, and I guess you > having an odd version of the font installed i.e. one with a smallcaps > weight. [snip] > Maybe on RISC OS !FontPrint would be a quick fix, use it to map > Trinity.SmallCaps to Trinity.Italic, a harmless reference will be added > to your PostScript. An interesting suggestion. I hadn't come across !FontPrint before. I have, however, temporarily removed the Smallcaps fonts until the PDF printing problem (which certainly doesn't like those 'flavours') is resolved. -- Inspired! To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 19 21:01:02 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K9LY5-4Mpknw-04-9MQ.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:01:02 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K9LY5-4Mpknw-04-9MQ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:55:41 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K9LY5-4Mpknw-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:55:41 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K9LXq-0002rj-VK for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:55:41 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2392C863229 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:54:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03252-04 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:54:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0046D862E3C for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:54:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:54:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 95BEB863256 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03159-08 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from alpha.arachsys.com (alpha.arachsys.com [91.203.57.7]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0CBE78631F1 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 10:53:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from i-195-137-122-84.freedom2surf.net ([195.137.122.84] helo=Iyo) by alpha.arachsys.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1K9LW1-0004t1-Hw for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:53:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Torrens (lists)" To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:42:24 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions Message-ID: <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 775 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: Lists@torrens.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=DxU3NYB9X85IQMtv-IUA:9 a=2rwzOTMxCfiNDa04i80A:7 a=rNeR6RYMFuBp3UnoDTBtaSwhTEwA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.4.0/1509] In article , David Pilling wrote: > Saving the document as DDL will firstly let you see what fonts OPro > thinks are used, but also will let you see where various fonts are used > - notice the name given to the font, and then look for uses of that > name. Curious, I did this and found a reference to Cien. But there was no text (that I could see) associated. So I went to the O-Pro doc in the appropriate place, did a few 'remove all styles' on line ends in that area, and Cien went! > I think that save as DDL, reload DDL will recount the fonts. But that looses any nice page layout etc. > Plan B, is uninstall the font, load the document (OPro will complain > about the missing font), then save the document. Works, but a pain... Plan C? Would it be possible to put in a font name in the 'Find' dialogue? To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 19 21:15:46 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K9QVJ-1oRknw-07-Cvi.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:15:46 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K9QVJ-1oRknw-07-Cvi; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:13:09 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K9QVJ-1oRknw-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:13:09 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K9QVF-00047f-OE for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:13:09 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 75915862759 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:12:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07659-04 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:12:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 492638629D8 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:12:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:12:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 62931862759 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:12:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07554-03 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:12:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1CBDA862758 for ; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:12:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1K9QUT-0003e7-0m for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:12:17 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:10:50 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 776 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=KYY5J0T0sMG-YODYZKIA:9 a=R1zbMUJLtzccE-XTE78A:7 a=tfvLMsG9-KQtWiePwQ5NRAKkFZIA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.93 [270.4.0/1509] In message <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk>, "Torrens (lists)" writes >In article , > David Pilling wrote: >> Saving the document as DDL will firstly let you see what fonts OPro >> thinks are used, but also will let you see where various fonts are used >> - notice the name given to the font, and then look for uses of that >> name. > >Curious, I did this and found a reference to Cien. But there was no text >(that I could see) associated. > >So I went to the O-Pro doc in the appropriate place, did a few 'remove all >styles' on line ends in that area, and Cien went! I would interpret this as, you didn't look hard enough in the DDL for the font references. That is a bit harsh of me because DDL is not documented and even if it was you need to think like a programmer. >> I think that save as DDL, reload DDL will recount the fonts. >But that looses any nice page layout etc. No! It is a common misconception that Ovation Pro DDL is just like Impression DDF. It is not. DDL is supposed to be an exact representation of the document, pages, frames, pictures, the lot. There are two pities about DDL, one is that it was done before XML became popular, and the other is that if the computers back then had been more powerful, DDL would have been the only option for saving documents. Had I adopted DDL in 1995 I would have faced a bunch of whingers "oooh the documents are bigger than Impression and they load so slowly" - hence you're stuck with the horrors of a binary format 8-) >Plan C? >Would it be possible to put in a font name in the 'Find' dialogue? Being able to search for text styles (which includes fonts) is a great idea. It is a major omission. However it would not necessarily help, because the font use may be somewhere that Find does not look. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 20 14:40:25 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K9d2h-1ddVbs-06-8uq.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:40:25 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K9d2h-1ddVbs-06-8uq; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:36:27 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K9d2h-1ddVbs-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:36:27 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K9d2f-0003SR-Lg for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:36:27 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2E38E862F08 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 05:36:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31682-01 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 05:36:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 02A61862E2D for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 05:36:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 20 Jun 2008 05:35:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3FF78862E58 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 05:35:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31495-10 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 05:35:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mk-outboundfilter-5.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-outboundfilter-5.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E7BC0862E45 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 05:35:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Trace: 46738670/mk-outboundfilter-5.mail.uk.tiscali.com/F2S/$ACCEPTED/freedom2Surf-customers/195.137.122.84 X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 195.137.122.84 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: Lists@torrens.org.uk X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEACwWW0jDiXpU/2dsb2JhbACvVwM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,678,1204502400"; d="scan'208";a="46738670" X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from i-195-137-122-84.freedom2surf.net (HELO lab) ([195.137.122.84]) by smtp.f2s.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 20 Jun 2008 10:35:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Torrens (lists)" To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:40:34 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions Message-ID: <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 777 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: Lists@torrens.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=Q2MTwp5kAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=-AddEfDYlsY30Tjs1BcA:9 a=RGcrtlbZnD_-Qw4V4ksA:7 a=pGgv5h60Hmka_WmZ7U1Iv4oj3UUA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.129 [270.4.0/1509] In article , David Pilling wrote: > >So I went to the O-Pro doc in the appropriate place, did a few 'remove > >all styles' on line ends in that area, and Cien went! > I would interpret this as, you didn't look hard enough in the DDL for > the font references. That is a bit harsh of me because DDL is not > documented and even if it was you need to think like a programmer. OK. The original document is at: www.torrens.org.uk/Opera/Rossini/Cenerentola.dpd Looking at the DDL, the only line containing the reference to FONT_7bff is in the bit below. {newpara}{remuserstyle STYLE_13}{adduserstyle STYLE_15} "(stup=E9fait et prenant un air important)" {align 0}{newpara}{remuserstyle STYLE_15}{bold 1}{italic 0}{reverse 0} {super 0}{sub 0} FONT_7bff {textsize 36000}{bold}{italic}{reverse}{sub}{font} {textsize}{align} "Mes filles, que dites-vous!" Scanning around this point in the O-Pro file (page 15), letter by letter I find no Cien font. So to what is the font referring? > >> I think that save as DDL, reload DDL will recount the fonts. > >But that looses any nice page layout etc. > No! It is a common misconception that Ovation Pro DDL is just like > Impression DDF. It is not. DDL is supposed to be an exact representation > of the document, pages, frames, pictures, the lot. Well, the original is a pamphlet. Saving as a DDL looses that information. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 20 17:24:31 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K9jE6-0au000-02-BFx.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:24:31 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K9jE6-0au000-02-BFx; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:12:38 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K9jE6-0au000-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:12:38 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K9jE2-00007u-TD for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:12:38 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6E66B8625AF for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08086-08 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 44EA58626BC for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:11:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 081B78625AF for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:11:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07650-09 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7A94686279F for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 12:11:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1K9jDM-0007vq-FG for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:11:52 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:10:51 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1;format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 778 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=FDnFfS0k7MHhCugwUwsA:9 a=BWQWEw9BiB9xOeKEmjEA:7 a=cbkr0M0mmG2iba0j5lu-pR4Rhy8A:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.129 [270.4.0/1509] In message <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk>, "Torrens (lists)"=20 writes >{newpara}{remuserstyle STYLE_13}{adduserstyle STYLE_15} >"(stup=E9fait et prenant un air important)" >{align 0}{newpara}{remuserstyle STYLE_15}{bold 1}{italic 0}{reverse 0} >{super 0}{sub 0} FONT_7bff {textsize >36000}{bold}{italic}{reverse}{sub}{font} >{textsize}{align} >"Mes filles, que dites-vous!" > >Scanning around this point in the O-Pro file (page 15), letter by letter I >find no Cien font. So to what is the font referring? That is another sort of font reference bug, there is a reference to a=20 font, but no text in that font. I'm a bit surprised by that... the DDL=20 code should clean up such things, perhaps after a DDL load there would=20 not be the reference? >Well, the original is a pamphlet. Saving as a DDL looses that information. That is true, the entire document is preserved but not any details about=20 rendering it on screen or printer. I am inclined to think that was not a=20 good idea. --=20 David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 20 21:06:21 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K9mOy-0ImGPo-08-Gbb.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:06:21 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K9mOy-0ImGPo-08-Gbb; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 19:36:04 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K9mOy-0ImGPo-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 19:36:04 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K9mOx-0005xl-RW for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 19:36:04 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 627E6862DF0 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:36:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29978-07 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:36:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3DBAD862F9F for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:36:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:35:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 94135862DF0 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:35:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29885-07 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:35:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mk-outboundfilter-5.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-outboundfilter-5.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 494C8862FF2 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 15:35:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Trace: 47027134/mk-outboundfilter-5.mail.uk.tiscali.com/F2S/$ACCEPTED/freedom2Surf-customers/195.137.122.84 X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 195.137.122.84 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: Lists@torrens.org.uk X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEAOCiW0jDiXpU/2dsb2JhbACwBwM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,681,1204502400"; d="scan'208";a="47027134" X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from i-195-137-122-84.freedom2surf.net (HELO lab) ([195.137.122.84]) by smtp.f2s.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 20 Jun 2008 20:35:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Torrens (lists)" To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:17:28 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions Message-ID: <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.12) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 779 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: Lists@torrens.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=Ufu18saPW0DxxSo7tsMA:9 a=uFjz7oqTkqQ9X1ayvvYA:7 a=Q5BfxQLU6B2Qm9YUr8DgYi7YPmUA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.129 [270.4.0/1509] In article , David Pilling wrote: > >Scanning around this point in the O-Pro file (page 15), letter by > >letter I find no Cien font. So to what is the font referring? > That is another sort of font reference bug, there is a reference to a > font, but no text in that font. I'm a bit surprised by that... the DDL > code should clean up such things, perhaps after a DDL load there would > not be the reference? How easy would it be, when O-Pro complains about a missing font, to allow the user to control the font used as a replacement? To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 20 21:36:20 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K9n7S-3i0Vbs-01-Ft7.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:36:20 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K9n7S-3i0Vbs-01-Ft7; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:22:02 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K9n7S-3i0Vbs-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:22:02 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K9n7N-0001sU-S7 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:22:02 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4AC58862DFF for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:21:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02585-05 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:21:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 260C6862D1B for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:21:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:21:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BC72386262C for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02340-09 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.87]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 82789862609 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 16:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) id 1K9n6d-0003Ie-Mq for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:21:11 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:19:58 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 780 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=qInVw--bF8Mu4uUVu3oA:9 a=rLP4inb_fakQUhfve5sA:7 a=7WUPYWgCAXMtS6GXzMeDOGHGMDwA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.129 [270.4.0/1509] In message <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk>, "Torrens (lists)" writes >How easy would it be, when O-Pro complains about a missing font, to >allow the user to control the font used as a replacement? Essentially the Windows version of OP allows this. Doing anything for RISC OS is difficult because I've had 20 years of aversion therapy... -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 11:37:47 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K9oEP-13R000-06-EmA.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:37:47 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K9oEP-13R000-06-EmA; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:33:17 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K9oEP-13R000-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:33:17 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K9oEP-0002rS-1M for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 21:33:17 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 631ED86286F for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:33:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08002-05 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:33:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C14228627BD for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:33:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:32:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B590D86286F for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:32:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07880-05 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:32:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (zen.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.18]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6B24E862760 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:32:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Iyonix.pnyoung.ormail.co.uk ([88.202.192.149]) by zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m5KLWE5Y011969 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2008 22:32:15 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Dr Peter Young X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 22:32:18 +0100 Message-ID: <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: Home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 781 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: pnyoung@ormail.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=CKwIYTfOAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=mNfE0COh9TacJaTrMrQA:9 a=uFEl-Ogf5dT2v7cNUWAA:7 a=JuTZC01Ts0oNUO69nDJAVxugEI8A:4 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.129 [270.4.0/1509] On 20 Jun 2008 David Pilling wrote: > In message <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk>, "Torrens (lists)" > writes >>How easy would it be, when O-Pro complains about a missing font, to >>allow the user to control the font used as a replacement? > Essentially the Windows version of OP allows this. > Doing anything for RISC OS is difficult because I've had 20 years of > aversion therapy... That's one of the saddest things that I've read for ages. I do hope that we ordinary RISC OS users aren't the source of the aversion, as we have a /very/ great deal to be thankful to David for. With best wishes, Peter. -- Peter \ / zfc Er \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52 Anne \/ __ __ \ England. and / / \ | | |\ | / _ \ http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk family / \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \______________ pnyoung@ormail.co.uk. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 11:37:58 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K9xft-3s5Vbs-08-DrC.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:37:58 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K9xft-3s5Vbs-08-DrC; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:38:17 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K9xft-3s5Vbs-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:38:17 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K9xft-0002vO-81 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:38:17 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id ACAF68631F8 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 03:38:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16927-02 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 03:38:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8082F8632D3 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 03:38:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 03:37:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9DA168631F8 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 03:37:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16772-02 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 03:37:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.47]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2EFE1863151 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 03:37:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080621074200.EJRR28496.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:42:00 +0100 Received: from iyonix.ntlworld.com ([82.1.169.32]) by aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080621074328.EUNQ16854.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@iyonix.ntlworld.com> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:43:28 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Dr Alan Leighton X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:40:11 +0100 Message-ID: References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 782 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: alan.leighton2@ntlworld.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=fDx3lXa77J6jUNJbHyIA:9 a=RUo3CQxkPEW0d5c2FXMA:7 a=DFO5P7tty0S36Fcg40s8vID4qpgA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.129 [270.4.0/1509] In message <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> Dr Peter Young wrote: > On 20 Jun 2008 David Pilling wrote: >> In message <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk>, "Torrens (lists)" >> writes >>>How easy would it be, when O-Pro complains about a missing font, to >>>allow the user to control the font used as a replacement? >> Essentially the Windows version of OP allows this. >> Doing anything for RISC OS is difficult because I've had 20 years of >> aversion therapy... > That's one of the saddest things that I've read for ages. I do hope > that we ordinary RISC OS users aren't the source of the aversion, as > we have a /very/ great deal to be thankful to David for. I would like to back Peter 100% in what he says. After watching the program about Bill Gates yesterday I am so grateful for our operating system and those who support it like David. Best wishes Alan -- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 11:37:58 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K9xtp-1OsVbs-01-DdG.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:37:58 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K9xtp-1OsVbs-01-DdG; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:52:41 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K9xtp-1OsVbs-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:52:41 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K9xto-0004cq-JW for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:52:41 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C1B50863282 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 03:52:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17997-02 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 03:52:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 99547862D56 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 03:52:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 03:52:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 090E7862AC6 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 03:52:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17808-06 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 03:52:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 97A7D862D12 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 03:51:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panther (backup.vigay.com [82.163.120.21]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m5L7pjQ5016957 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:51:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Vigay To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:51:47 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions Message-ID: <4fb2cf5dcalists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 X-No-Archive: yes Sensitivity: Private Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 783 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists-nospam@vigay.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=0xqhCTqKAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=hiQIgXWcM41XFb76xO0A:9 a=-eEOL3zlahchLhL6GM4A:7 a=ZE-EThEHmhDlfdUpon2d_ySM2ZIA:4 a=4SztSTlPBk4A:10 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.129 [270.4.0/1509] In a dim and distant universe , Dr Alan Leighton enlightened us thusly: > I would like to back Peter 100% in what he says. After watching the > program about Bill Gates yesterday I am so grateful for our operating > system and those who support it like David. Yeah. That programme made me feel sick. The guy is a megalomaniac psychopath - and thinks he can buy appreciation by chucking money at charities. My disliking for him just reached new heights! He can't even start to buy a better world for all the suffering he's caused in the past 25 years. That's like a paedophile trying to make people like him by donating money to a childrens charity. Just sick if you ask me! Thinking he can 'buy' a Nobel peace prize, sums his mentality up I think. Paul Vigay Editor, www.RISCOS.org -- Using, programming and promoting RISC OS - the most productive computer system in the world. Check it out now, and change your view of computers!! To reply/email, visit http://www.riscos.org/feedback/ "Stewardesses" is the longest word typed with only the left hand. With your right, "lollipop." To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 11:38:00 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K9zXf-1MsVbs-04-BzQ.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:38:00 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K9zXf-1MsVbs-04-BzQ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:37:55 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K9zXf-1MsVbs-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:37:55 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K9zXe-0003NY-SZ for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:37:55 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 60C3786245B for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 05:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23654-07 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 05:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 36BD6862663 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 05:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 05:37:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 58F3C86245B for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 05:37:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23511-08 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 05:37:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.87]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 25C64862459 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 05:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from charleshope.demon.co.uk ([80.177.174.79] helo=iyonix) by anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) id 1K9zX0-0002D5-N7 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:37:14 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: charles To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:36:57 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions Message-ID: <4fb2d8fe83charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb2cf5dcalists-nospam@vigay.com> References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2cf5dcalists-nospam@vigay.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 784 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=JFnGBH3ydCJ4VirNHOgA:9 a=a88FyAC6dhHss883ym8A:7 a=pKTxiIRQPSgFGkJceNKxG1YGmj4A:4 a=MVlnOHnAQ0oA:10 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.129 [270.4.0/1509] In article <4fb2cf5dcalists-nospam@vigay.com>, Paul Vigay wrote: > In a dim and distant universe , > Dr Alan Leighton enlightened us thusly: > > I would like to back Peter 100% in what he says. After watching the > > program about Bill Gates yesterday I am so grateful for our operating > > system and those who support it like David. > Yeah. That programme made me feel sick. The guy is a megalomaniac > psychopath - and thinks he can buy appreciation by chucking money at > charities. My disliking for him just reached new heights! Just because you dislike Microsoft products is no reason to dismiss Gates' donations to charity. A hundred years ago, Andrew Carnegie made a personal fortune out of the steel industry in the USA and, on retiring, gave millions* to charity. He is considered a philanthropist. * considered to be the equivalent of $4.3 billion at current prices --=20 >From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey" Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 11:38:00 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1K9zpu-0hH000-06-BhB.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:38:00 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1K9zpu-0hH000-06-BhB; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:56:46 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1K9zpu-0hH000-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:56:46 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1K9zpt-0002zR-Os for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 09:56:46 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5021E86253A for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 05:56:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24793-04 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 05:56:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 24D3086253D for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 05:56:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 05:56:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3368B86253A for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 05:56:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24638-07 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 05:56:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.48]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C45318622EB for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 05:56:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080621100041.HFVM7070.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:00:41 +0100 Received: from iyonix.ntlworld.com ([82.1.169.32]) by aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080621095915.DXET29365.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@iyonix.ntlworld.com> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:59:15 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Dr Alan Leighton X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:58:44 +0100 Message-ID: References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2cf5dcalists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb2d8fe83charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb2d8fe83charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 785 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: alan.leighton2@ntlworld.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=cV5G1uv4K5nnvxGpKHkA:9 a=Ecii8iqnyuCzCHK_iU4A:7 a=UTtzpQOcGrkPSW9p4_rhub_DP4MA:4 a=MVlnOHnAQ0oA:10 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.129 [270.4.0/1509] In message <4fb2d8fe83charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> charles wrote: > In article <4fb2cf5dcalists-nospam@vigay.com>, > Paul Vigay wrote: >> In a dim and distant universe , >> Dr Alan Leighton enlightened us thusly: >>> I would like to back Peter 100% in what he says. After watching the >>> program about Bill Gates yesterday I am so grateful for our operating >>> system and those who support it like David. >> Yeah. That programme made me feel sick. The guy is a megalomaniac >> psychopath - and thinks he can buy appreciation by chucking money at >> charities. My disliking for him just reached new heights! > Just because you dislike Microsoft products is no reason to dismiss Gates' > donations to charity. A hundred years ago, Andrew Carnegie made a personal > fortune out of the steel industry in the USA and, on retiring, gave > millions* to charity. He is considered a philanthropist. > * considered to be the equivalent of $4.3 billion at current prices I have no trouble with this. I actually like some MS products, Power Point being one. However the way they ruthlessly wiled out competition really made me happy for our good old RISC OS. By the way I do not consider Big Bill as a megalomaniac psychopath but hope he gives his money to where it really is needed and although he longs for the Nobel Peace Prize I hope it goes elsewhere as there are plenty more deserving cases. Alan 8=) Alan -- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 11:38:01 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KA0TY-06WVbs-07-B3X.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:38:01 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KA0TY-06WVbs-07-B3X; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:37:44 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KA0TY-06WVbs-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:37:44 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KA0TX-0005Nl-U8 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:37:44 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A59CC862740 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 06:37:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27174-06 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 06:37:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7D1258629A7 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 06:37:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 06:36:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C8FB0862740 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 06:36:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27103-01 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 06:36:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.o2.co.uk (jabba.london.02.net [82.132.130.169]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4BA74862686 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 06:36:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.64] (78.86.89.89) by mail.o2.co.uk (8.0.013.3) (authenticated as phillipmarsden@o2.co.uk) id 4851DD9501865A94 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:36:56 +0100 Message-ID: <485CD9C7.2010709@btinternet.com> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:36:55 +0100 From: Phillip Marsden User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080505) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2cf5dcalists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb2d8fe83charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb2d8fe83charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 786 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: phillip.marsden@btinternet.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=qJrJCzTo8e-LFtub0pIA:9 a=on6zOTDouitAQas1cCoA:7 a=pPo2mForJGGxz4qJM69NKHmV1ioA:4 a=MVlnOHnAQ0oA:10 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=z4H2JRWSBuQA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.129 [270.4.0/1509] charles wrote: > In article <4fb2cf5dcalists-nospam@vigay.com>, > Paul Vigay wrote: > >> In a dim and distant universe , >> Dr Alan Leighton enlightened us thusly: >> > > >>> I would like to back Peter 100% in what he says. After watching the >>> program about Bill Gates yesterday I am so grateful for our operating >>> system and those who support it like David. >>> > > >> Yeah. That programme made me feel sick. The guy is a megalomaniac >> psychopath - and thinks he can buy appreciation by chucking money at >> charities. My disliking for him just reached new heights! >> > > Just because you dislike Microsoft products is no reason to dismiss Gates' > donations to charity. A hundred years ago, Andrew Carnegie made a personal > fortune out of the steel industry in the USA and, on retiring, gave > millions* to charity. He is considered a philanthropist. > > * considered to be the equivalent of $4.3 billion at current prices > > Although this thread has wandered somewhat from the original topic, I feel that I must respond and agree with Charles. My apologies to David Pilling for mis-using his forum. I don't know what Alan Leighton had in mind, as his statement seemed a bit vague and woolly, but Paul Vigay's statement was very clear. It was the usual invective and it makes me wonder what world Paul is living in. The business tactics of Microsoft have been ruthless, but many companies have been like this in the past. Why single out Microsoft for special treatment? It is quite possible that Bill Gates has been profoundly affected by his wife on the matter of charity. It is not proven that he is trying to buy a Nobel Peace Prize. That was simply the view of Robert Cringeley. If Bill Gates can make a difference in places such as Africa (where the majority of rulers are corrupt and milking money out of the country and from Aid donations) then more power to his elbow! Update: Alan Leighton has made his position clearer in a later posting, and his position certainly does not match that of Paul. -- Regards, Phillip Marsden For quality bespoke acoustic guitars phillip.marsden@btinternet.com To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 12:07:48 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KA0tj-0CiGPo-04-AdM.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:07:48 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KA0tj-0CiGPo-04-AdM; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:04:47 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KA0tj-0CiGPo-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:04:47 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KA0ti-0004Ir-WE for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:04:47 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6E97F86252F for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:04:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28638-06 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:04:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4C0C0862846 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:04:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:04:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 39CB386252F for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28520-05 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:04:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0668E862521 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KA0t3-000Mvp-9J for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:04:06 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:02:50 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 787 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=mR_juDwe7l-300AKwHwA:9 a=LLKQSZTSewvOlSgNZggA:7 a=nUfhVNBBhT7Yq3CbsA2o1Qpizk8A:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1511] In message <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Dr Peter Young writes >On 20 Jun 2008 David Pilling wrote: >> Doing anything for RISC OS is difficult because I've had 20 years of >> aversion therapy... >That's one of the saddest things that I've read for ages. I do hope Yes well maybe that was overdoing it. I certainly had 10 very happy years working on RISC OS (1988-1998). As to Microsoft... the thing is that after 10 years of using Windows (1998-2008) and really trying, I find I don't like it. Eventually something will replace Windows. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 12:22:48 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KA12l-36Hknw-03-AUK.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:22:48 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KA12l-36Hknw-03-AUK; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:14:07 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KA12l-36Hknw-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:14:07 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KA12k-0001a2-II for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:14:06 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 18999862286 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29424-04 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id ED34486275C for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:14:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:13:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3F1AF862286 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:13:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29306-01 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:13:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pih-relay04.plus.net (pih-relay04.plus.net [212.159.14.131]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 074DB86215B for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:13:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [80.229.238.131] (helo=ASCENSION) by pih-relay04.plus.net with esmtpa (Exim) id 1KA125-0001eG-Um for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:13:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ned Abell To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:09:37 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions Message-ID: <4fb2e17a71nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 Content-Type: text/plain X-Plusnet-Relay: af84e3d0a783612a896fbfa47ec84ada X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 788 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=XWfWxRDAzHe-SjP83o0A:9 a=d0ju7GpRZlPNBjHlK48A:7 a=AyX8AsaRoI3Z2OPD3QISPCWGAoEA:4 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1511] On 21 Jun, David Pilling wrote: > In message <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Dr Peter Young > writes > >On 20 Jun 2008 David Pilling > >wrote: > >> Doing anything for RISC OS is difficult because I've had > >> 20 years of aversion therapy... > >That's one of the saddest things that I've read for ages. > >I do hope > Yes well maybe that was overdoing it. I certainly had 10 > very happy years working on RISC OS (1988-1998). > As to Microsoft... the thing is that after 10 years of > using Windows (1998-2008) and really trying, I find I > don't like it. > Eventually something will replace Windows. It has already - Linux :-) Im exremely happy with my Ubuntu setup and it wasnt a huge learning curve migrating. However the RISC PC still networks away doing all the graphics and publishing thanks to your superb software. Again many thanks for all the hours spent on it. -- besters.. Ned === skype:nedabell To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 12:22:48 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KA13s-3zT000-08-ATD.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:22:48 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KA13s-3zT000-08-ATD; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:15:16 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KA13s-3zT000-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:15:16 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KA13r-0000kL-Nx for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:15:16 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5C0A3862227 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:15:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29489-08 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:15:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 30EA086250F for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:15:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:14:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2494A862227 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:14:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29426-05 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:14:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (zen.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.18]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E5F3D8621BD for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:14:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave.nom ([88.202.209.138]) by zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m5LBEM4Y023264 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:14:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:42:13 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Unwanted font definitions Message-ID: <4fb2ce7d67dave@triffid.co.uk> References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/6.10) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 789 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: dave@triffid.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=owb6_LJ8UAJZEbAx4lEA:9 a=biFgVzVVmNlDaK3DKRoA:7 a=2-cJfmGXAvGMHbZx3EvMt9Hp2FsA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1511] In article <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Dr Peter Young wrote: > On 20 Jun 2008 David Pilling wrote: > > In message <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk>, "Torrens (lists)" > > writes > >>How easy would it be, when O-Pro complains about a missing font, to > >>allow the user to control the font used as a replacement? > > Essentially the Windows version of OP allows this. > > Doing anything for RISC OS is difficult because I've had 20 years of > > aversion therapy... > That's one of the saddest things that I've read for ages. I do hope > that we ordinary RISC OS users aren't the source of the aversion, as > we have a /very/ great deal to be thankful to David for. > With best wishes, > Peter. Indeedy, I couldn't agree more. The software of Mr P has over the years made my computer use easier, and I guess more efficient. I still use OvPro on both RISC OS and Windows, and to be quite honest about it, I like using it in preference to anything else either side of the OS wall. While I do most of my photo graphics work on the Win PC side using PSP, I still do a bit RO side using DPlngscan. (And obviously do all my Vector graphics work on the RO side with Draw... Not a DP app though). Trusty old SparkFS of course... Been using that for years in Zip mode to transfer stuff all over the place. Plus a number of small bits and bobs from the Dpilling stable. Thank you Mr P for making my computer use easier than it would have been. Cheers Dave S -- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 12:37:48 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KA1Jw-3m7knw-03-AD9.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:37:48 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KA1Jw-3m7knw-03-AD9; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:31:52 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KA1Jw-3m7knw-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:31:52 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KA1Jv-00038m-UU for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:31:52 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 88907862799 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:31:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30405-03 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:31:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5EC2786274F for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:31:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:31:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4C7EF862799 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30284-01 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from alpha.arachsys.com (alpha.arachsys.com [91.203.57.7]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1967C862631 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:31:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from i-195-137-122-84.freedom2surf.net ([195.137.122.84] helo=Iyo) by alpha.arachsys.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1KA1JC-0003e3-AT for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:31:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Torrens (lists)" To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:13:22 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions Message-ID: <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.12) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 790 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: Lists@torrens.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=gT3mzVZxLmCiWbzR_YMA:9 a=B5_xOEOxR_H3fJK_dx8A:7 a=pymy7KIoAgFJvRpvcKdgncoDfbkA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1511] In article , David Pilling wrote: > In message <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Dr Peter Young > writes > >On 20 Jun 2008 David Pilling wrote: > >> Doing anything for RISC OS is difficult because I've had 20 years of > >> aversion therapy... > >That's one of the saddest things that I've read for ages. I do hope > Yes well maybe that was overdoing it. I certainly had 10 very happy > years working on RISC OS (1988-1998). > As to Microsoft... the thing is that after 10 years of using Windows > (1998-2008) and really trying, I find I don't like it. Yes, having to admit that there is no future in a OS you do like, and moving to an OS you do not, simply to make a living, must be a a major de-motivator. But you have always been reluctant to do chargeable upgrades for RISC OS. Are there enough changes you could port back into RO to appease your conscience about making an upgrade charge, and are there enough RO users left and willing to pay a charge to make it worth your while? > Eventually something will replace Windows. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 14:07:52 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KA2gm-18G000-04-8qJ.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:07:52 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KA2gm-18G000-04-8qJ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:59:32 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KA2gm-18G000-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:59:32 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KA2gm-00021V-19 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:59:32 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8D4798628EE for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:59:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02294-08 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:59:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 63A618628E4 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:59:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:58:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A7FC48628EE for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:58:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02144-07 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:58:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.87]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 72DD28626C0 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 08:58:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) id 1KA2g7-0006nZ-Nn for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:58:51 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:57:27 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 791 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=eKB3vQwSFoFb_-XMkt8A:9 a=xbSgt0MsSXnilA1DB-YA:7 a=99WksRwHQIr-HJH7btHYazYWxnYA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1512] In message <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk>, "Torrens (lists)" writes >Yes, having to admit that there is no future in a OS you do like, and >moving to an OS you do not, simply to make a living, must be a a major >de-motivator. RISC OS was far ahead of Microsoft in 1988, it is now far behind. There's a lot wrong with RISC OS from a 2008 perspective. I have not made a living from Windows, my Windows experience has been more dispiriting than my RISC OS one. >But you have always been reluctant to do chargeable upgrades for RISC OS. >Are there enough changes you could port back into RO to appease your >conscience about making an upgrade charge, and are there enough RO users >left and willing to pay a charge to make it worth your while? My feeling about charging for RISC OS upgrades post 1998 has been that to do so was misleading (things were not going to go on for ever). Nearly ten years after Acorn. I think I was wrong about a couple of things, RISC OS has gone on longer than I expected and I might as well have put the four years work that went into Ovation Pro for Windows into the RISC OS version. Paid for upgrades would not have saved Ovation Pro, the thing that would have done, was more users. I needed more people to see the copies in use and say "this is fantastic I must have it". All this comes back to finding a way forward... I'm thinking something like putting the source code into the public domain and myself departing to a new venture. However this is easier to say than to do. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 15:37:54 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KA4Be-1NuVbs-08-Frx.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:37:54 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KA4Be-1NuVbs-08-Frx; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:35:30 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KA4Be-1NuVbs-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:35:30 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KA4Bc-000530-Aq for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:35:30 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B9598862801 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:35:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09653-05 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:35:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 91062862BA5 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:35:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:34:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1A16C862801 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:34:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09556-03 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:34:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.48]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A5F6486257C for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:34:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080621143925.KUVX7070.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com>; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:39:25 +0100 Received: from iyonix.ntlworld.com ([82.1.169.32]) by aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080621144038.JSWH16854.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@iyonix.ntlworld.com>; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:40:38 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions To: davidpilling@freelists.org Cc: Jim Nagel , Iyoniix-support@smartgroup.com, info@virtualacorn.co.uk From: Dr Alan Leighton X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:37:18 +0100 Message-ID: <187ef4b24f.alan@ntlworld.com> References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 792 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: alan.leighton2@ntlworld.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=PW5d5tcnGcYvf4x4bEsA:9 a=l4GHnvHZe8bz4UG-QAIA:7 a=MMcu6okxE0rHSwGeWWo0tU_PoS4A:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1512] In message David Pilling wrote: > In message <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk>, "Torrens (lists)" > writes >>Yes, having to admit that there is no future in a OS you do like, and >>moving to an OS you do not, simply to make a living, must be a a major >>de-motivator. > RISC OS was far ahead of Microsoft in 1988, it is now far behind. > There's a lot wrong with RISC OS from a 2008 perspective. > I have not made a living from Windows, my Windows experience has been > more dispiriting than my RISC OS one. >>But you have always been reluctant to do chargeable upgrades for RISC O= S. >>Are there enough changes you could port back into RO to appease your >>conscience about making an upgrade charge, and are there enough RO user= s >>left and willing to pay a charge to make it worth your while? > My feeling about charging for RISC OS upgrades post 1998 has been that > to do so was misleading (things were not going to go on for ever). > Nearly ten years after Acorn. I think I was wrong about a couple of > things, RISC OS has gone on longer than I expected and I might as well > have put the four years work that went into Ovation Pro for Windows int= o > the RISC OS version. > Paid for upgrades would not have saved Ovation Pro, the thing that woul= d > have done, was more users. I needed more people to see the copies in us= e > and say "this is fantastic I must have it". > All this comes back to finding a way forward... > I'm thinking something like putting the source code into the public > domain and myself departing to a new venture. However this is easier to= > say than to do. Do a big update on the Riscos version and charge =A350 or maybe a bit=20 more. I guess many would go for that. After all I pay for Easywriter=20 updates and only use it 5% of the time compared with OPro. If you decide to go ahead I know people like Jim Nagel, VA, etc give=20 backing and free advertising. What do others think, can we have a=20 response? Vote my friends --=20 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 15:52:55 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KA4OS-10OGPo-03-Ff9.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:52:55 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KA4OS-10OGPo-03-Ff9; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:48:44 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KA4OS-10OGPo-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:48:44 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KA4OR-0006n3-Uh for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:48:44 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6841486253C for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10791-10 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3D4DE862511 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:48:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 42B6F8626B7 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:48:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10670-04 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:48:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (zen.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.18]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D344B8622D4 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Iyonix.pnyoung.ormail.co.uk ([88.202.192.149]) by zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m5LEllwp025567 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:47:49 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Dr Peter Young X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:47:51 +0100 Message-ID: <4b75f5b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk> <187ef4b24f.alan@ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: <187ef4b24f.alan@ntlworld.com> X-Organization: Home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 793 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: pnyoung@ormail.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=CKwIYTfOAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=y9GJjBzOizMxsR--4vkA:9 a=V8nVhOUNhUYX65IXMUsA:7 a=MTGRpzA_9QhN0077Tp7sZfIJhvIA:4 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1512] On 21 Jun 2008 Dr Alan Leighton wrote: > In message > David Pilling wrote: [snip] > Do a big update on the Riscos version and charge =A350 or maybe a bit > more. I guess many would go for that. After all I pay for Easywriter > updates and only use it 5% of the time compared with OPro. > If you decide to go ahead I know people like Jim Nagel, VA, etc give > backing and free advertising. What do others think, can we have a > response? I'm definitely with Alan on this; David has consistently undersold=20 himself! And in reply his posting, when he was wondering about what=20 might have been different, perhaps attendance at shows might have made=20 a difference? I'm sure many would have liked to thank him in person,=20 and even buy him a drink :-) With best wishes, Peter. --=20 Peter \ / zfc Er \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52 Anne \/ __ __ \ England. and / / \ | | |\ | / _ \ http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk family / \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \______________ pnyoung@ormail.co.uk. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 16:52:57 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KA5FU-2jIGPo-03-Eo7.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 16:52:57 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KA5FU-2jIGPo-03-Eo7; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:43:32 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KA5FU-2jIGPo-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:43:32 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KA5FU-0003Vj-I3 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:43:33 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 32A32862429 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:43:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16241-01 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:43:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id F2385862313 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:43:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:42:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 83EB78622CD for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:42:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15577-10 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:42:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.48]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1A4BB8622AF for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:42:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080621154728.LQUI7070.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 16:47:28 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.100] (really [82.28.88.234]) by aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080621154841.KLAV16854.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[192.168.0.100]> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 16:48:41 +0100 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 16:41:20 +0100 From: Ray Dawson To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4b75f5b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk> <187ef4b24f.alan@ntlworld.com> <4b75f5b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: davidpilling@freelists.org X-Organization: MagRay User-Agent: Gemini/2.29i (Qt/3.3.8) (Windows-Vista) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 794 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: ray@raydawson.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=U8HdSdW88m-g7TaAyjQA:9 a=OFHX6FCNAkgzKnQZsA8A:7 a=ChyEYbimFyS98eu21fGYZ5JN4O4A:4 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=nrUGvYwLnKIA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1512] Dr Peter Young wrote: > On 21 Jun 2008 Dr Alan Leighton wrote: >=20 > > In message > > David Pilling wrote: >=20 > [snip] >=20 > > Do a big update on the Riscos version and charge =A350 or maybe a bit= > > more. I guess many would go for that. After all I pay for Easywriter > > updates and only use it 5% of the time compared with OPro. >=20 > > If you decide to go ahead I know people like Jim Nagel, VA, etc give > > backing and free advertising. What do others think, can we have a > > response? >=20 > I'm definitely with Alan on this; David has consistently undersold=20 > himself! And in reply his posting, when he was wondering about what=20 > might have been different, perhaps attendance at shows might have made = > a difference? I'm sure many would have liked to thank him in person,=20 > and even buy him a drink :-) I get the impression, from what David has said, that a RISC OS update would require a lot more work as he is no longer geared up to RISC OS. Even at =A350 a head the financial return won't be anywhere near the cost= of programming hours. As for the Windows version, perhaps a limited time version on a magazine CD would be worth considering? Presumably not many Windows users visit th= e OP website, as they have no reason to do so, but maybe using meta words such as 'Word problem replacement' 'Serif Pageplus problem replacement' etc might help :-) On the Windows platform there is much too much competition with established DTP applications for a high cost version of OP to exist. It has to have something 'special' to make users want it instead of the myriad of others. File portability is everything these days and, no matte= r how good an app is, if it can't be read in Word or other major software, it won't be used. Cheers, Ray D To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From ecartis@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 16:52:57 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KA5Gn-3azVbs-06-Emo.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 16:52:57 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KA5Gn-3azVbs-06-Emo; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:44:53 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KA5Gn-3azVbs-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:44:53 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KA5Gn-00059K-2B for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:44:53 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 193FC8622C9 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16311-10 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EB182862451 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:44:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling-admins@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling-admins@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C10748622C9 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:44:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16303-10 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:44:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A2F1485F4E7 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:44:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freelists.org by freelists.org (ECARTIS/1.0.0); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:44:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:44:45 -0400 (EDT) From: FreeLists Mailing List Manager To: davidpilling-admins@freelists.org Message-ID: X-ecartis-antiloop: freelists.org Precedence: list Subject: ab_freelists@matwoo.co.uk unsubscribed from davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=loTn7hfFr8gA:10 a=2jB3m0cph5sA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=v_OuJXoMgleipSvKW2YA:9 a=-4J2--F34Foq6dQleHk2FUvcfDAA:4 a=u1RUh8lOPwcA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1512] ab_freelists@matwoo.co.uk unsubscribed from list davidpilling Command came from: awb@matwoo.co.uk From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 17:37:58 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KA5s8-4MRknw-02-EBT.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:37:58 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KA5s8-4MRknw-02-EBT; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 16:23:28 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KA5s8-4MRknw-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 16:23:28 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KA5s4-0002yu-Gd for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 16:23:28 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EF9B0862526; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18773-10; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 66EED86267C; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:22:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 37C4C862526 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:22:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18627-08 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:22:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E0D45862488 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:22:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panther (backup.vigay.com [82.163.120.21]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m5LGMLKN021576 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:22:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Vigay To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:13:10 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions Message-ID: <4fb2fd44f7lists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk> <187ef4b24f.alan@ntlworld.com> <4b75f5b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 X-No-Archive: yes Sensitivity: Private Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 795 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists-nospam@vigay.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=0xqhCTqKAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=3grUH5V5b9Ypgr9vwh0A:9 a=cdGNMJBSK1mZ3-oltC0A:7 a=4gxgl3qBGV9lCkP5iTR2Kjdq3cMA:4 a=4SztSTlPBk4A:10 a=bzKVVdKtbjEA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1512] In a dim and distant universe , Ray Dawson enlightened us thusly: > I get the impression, from what David has said, that a RISC OS update > would require a lot more work as he is no longer geared up to RISC OS. > Even at =A350 a head the financial return won't be anywhere near the cost > of programming hours. Wouldn't a better approach be for David to work out roughly how much it would cost to do a (major?) update to RISC OS OvPro, then we can work out how many people would need to pay X amount? That would then allow us to calculate how much each update would be for the existing userbase vs, how many additional customers we'd need to make it viable. 100 customers each paying =A3100 for an update would bring in =A310,000 which might contribute to a few months programming.... Paul Vigay Editor, www.RISCOS.org -- Using, programming and promoting RISC OS - the most productive computer system in the world. Check it out now, and change your view of computers!! To reply/email, visit http://www.riscos.org/feedback/ The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 18:38:00 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KA6vm-1q1Vbs-02-D7p.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:38:00 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KA6vm-1q1Vbs-02-D7p; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:31:18 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KA6vm-1q1Vbs-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:31:18 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KA6vl-0006xP-Kb for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:31:18 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 06576862B56; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:31:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23241-05; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:31:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 67F46862B4C; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:31:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:30:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A4342862B56 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:30:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23171-01 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:30:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.47]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3192A86283C for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080621173501.LDEV28496.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:35:01 +0100 Received: from iyonix.ntlworld.com ([82.1.169.32]) by aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080621173629.LNCU16854.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@iyonix.ntlworld.com> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:36:29 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions To: davidpilling@freelists.org Mail-Followup-To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Dr Alan Leighton X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:33:12 +0100 Message-ID: <799804b34f.alan@ntlworld.com> References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk> <187ef4b24f.alan@ntlworld.com> <4b75f5b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 796 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: alan.leighton2@ntlworld.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=0NHXYDtJ6arGqWJJMoUA:9 a=WQhEAGiH5TypntFrm7cA:7 a=dQeHsgTwwZU5gGm4MVvkKvSc-SgA:4 a=bzKVVdKtbjEA:10 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1512] In message Ray Dawson wrote: > Dr Peter Young wrote: >> On 21 Jun 2008 Dr Alan Leighton wrote: >>=20 >>> In message >>> David Pilling wrote: >>=20 >> [snip] >>=20 >>> Do a big update on the Riscos version and charge =A350 or maybe a bit= >>> more. I guess many would go for that. After all I pay for Easywriter >>> updates and only use it 5% of the time compared with OPro. >>=20 >>> If you decide to go ahead I know people like Jim Nagel, VA, etc give >>> backing and free advertising. What do others think, can we have a >>> response? >>=20 >> I'm definitely with Alan on this; David has consistently undersold >> himself! And in reply his posting, when he was wondering about what >> might have been different, perhaps attendance at shows might have made= >> a difference? I'm sure many would have liked to thank him in person, >> and even buy him a drink :-) > I get the impression, from what David has said, that a RISC OS update > would require a lot more work as he is no longer geared up to RISC OS. > Even at =A350 a head the financial return won't be anywhere near the co= st of > programming hours. > As for the Windows version, perhaps a limited time version on a magazin= e > CD would be worth considering? Presumably not many Windows users visit = the > OP website, as they have no reason to do so, but maybe using meta words= > such as 'Word problem replacement' 'Serif Pageplus problem replacement'= > etc might help :-) > On the Windows platform there is much too much competition with > established DTP applications for a high cost version of OP to exist. It= > has to have something 'special' to make users want it instead of the > myriad of others. File portability is everything these days and, no mat= ter > how good an app is, if it can't be read in Word or other major software= , > it won't be used. Err is that a no? It may cost more than =A350 but first we need to set a = base line for David to respond to. If he sees a lot of interest then=20 we can take it from there. David has done a lot of work in the PC=20 version which he says some of it can be can be ported over to RISC OS=20 version. I have had my money worth out of DP for all those updated he=20 never charged for. Alan --=20 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 18:53:01 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KA73R-24jVbs-02-D0A.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:53:01 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KA73R-24jVbs-02-D0A; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:39:13 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KA73R-24jVbs-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:39:13 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KA73Q-0003vU-Oh for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:39:13 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 284E9862909; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:39:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23728-06; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:39:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 91E2D862C03; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:39:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:38:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 438F1862909 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23657-01 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp805.mail.ird.yahoo.com (smtp805.mail.ird.yahoo.com [217.146.188.65]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with SMTP id C23048627FB for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:38:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 21264 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2008 17:38:31 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Subject:To:Mail-Followup-To:From:X-Editor:Date:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=C5rdjNt39WXXFIQnPPJlqZ6Vl1COGZBT/O9tbHbpqn/A9ajRY0fclk4sfzWhGKjUNKPUlv1DB18z0eFePxRH1DaiufmYd/yKMNnkuHxQvnlquL/qkF1fU6GhwFXM5DKERnJGZ1wClgVoU0f8XzJkPUxuDZqfTnZpIqY2/wqwecU= ; Received: from unknown (HELO MyIyonix.btinternet.com) (bryanpage1@btinternet.com@86.153.246.138 with login) by smtp805.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2008 17:38:31 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: AGjBkFIVM1mhCfbm42gcmeICGB6E8__XyXONs_uQVFM83O09TKVk6HhdxpXoS6uM9H5ZEdFadwerKGHniBYcoFFGhNBoYdCJvx5TJfNGudUu38EbzWCNWPjmFeCXaR.IPPQ- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions To: davidpilling@freelists.org Mail-Followup-To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Bryan X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:38:45 +0100 Message-ID: <951a05b34f.Bryan@btinternet.com> References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk> <187ef4b24f.alan@ntlworld.com> <4b75f5b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <799804b34f.alan@ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: <799804b34f.alan@ntlworld.com> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 797 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: bryanpage1@btinternet.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=d4F8Eip14FzbOqLW-XIA:9 a=hbD-2vl732vMgUEe4TEA:7 a=wdw-FdbRHRcqk5Y7gMoro-tU7f0A:4 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1512] In message <799804b34f.alan@ntlworld.com> Dr Alan Leighton wrote: [snip] > Err is that a no? It may cost more than =A350 but first we need to set = a > base line for David to respond to. If he sees a lot of interest then > we can take it from there. David has done a lot of work in the PC > version which he says some of it can be can be ported over to RISC OS > version. I have had my money worth out of DP for all those updated he > never charged for. > Alan Why not do it as Martin Wuerthner does with EasiWriter, offer a set of=20 updates and vote on that set - that way the majority of people get=20 what they want and David can price accordingly. Regards, Bryan --=20 Using an Iyonix Aria Cube running Risc OS 5.13 and Virtual RPC=20 AdjustSA running RO 6.10 on a PC. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 18:53:01 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KA77h-2hsGPo-06-Cvu.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:53:01 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KA77h-2hsGPo-06-Cvu; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:43:37 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KA77h-2hsGPo-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:43:37 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KA77h-0004oZ-Ci for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:43:37 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2674A862415; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:43:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24147-03; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:43:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 95B4B862420; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:43:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:42:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6D35A862415 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:42:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24051-07 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:42:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pih-relay04.plus.net (pih-relay04.plus.net [212.159.14.131]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 35FEA862411 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 13:42:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [84.92.97.176] (helo=greatest) by pih-relay04.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1KA76p-0004xu-LM for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:42:49 +0100 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:38:34 +0100 From: Tim Powys-Lybbe To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions Message-ID: <321605b34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk> <187ef4b24f.alan@ntlworld.com> <4b75f5b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2fd44f7lists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: <4fb2fd44f7lists-nospam@vigay.com> X-Organization: South Farm, Calstone, Calne, Wilts, England (no house here!) User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Plusnet-Relay: 077d56c46c97b116b7ad9d54fdbddcb4 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 798 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: tim@powys.org Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=v6Aic-fSAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=PmCXFd0xmCc9LXAhzBoA:9 a=MI5buEPnf2HQkwmUGaIA:7 a=cNpszXWgulBylTsVWbzovYnO6hsA:4 a=MVlnOHnAQ0oA:10 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1512] In message of 21 Jun, Paul Vigay wrote: > 100 customers each paying =A3100 for an update would bring in =A310,000 > which might contribute to a few months programming.... When I retired in 2000 the going rate for a contract programmer was a mere =A3250 a day. Shall we say that it might, just be a bit more now? So =A310K is a 40 days work, not quite two months, and probably less than that at current daily rates. --=20 Tim Powys-Lybbe=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0tim@pow= ys.org =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0For a miscellany of bygones: http:= //powys.org/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpill= ing From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 19:08:01 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KA7Rw-4Cs000-03-Cbf.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:08:01 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KA7Rw-4Cs000-03-Cbf; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:04:32 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KA7Rw-4Cs000-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:04:32 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KA7Rv-0005gH-Ma for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:04:32 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 601B986240A; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:04:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25866-09; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:04:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C8C10862AAB; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:04:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:03:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3E4F586240A for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:03:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25736-08 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:03:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.47]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0DFA48623F4 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:03:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080621180802.LLYJ28496.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:08:02 +0100 Received: from iyonix.ntlworld.com ([82.1.169.32]) by aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080621180650.INSZ29365.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@iyonix.ntlworld.com> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:06:50 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Dr Alan Leighton X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:05:23 +0100 Message-ID: References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk> <187ef4b24f.alan@ntlworld.com> <4b75f5b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2fd44f7lists-nospam@vigay.com> <321605b34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <321605b34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 799 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: alan.leighton2@ntlworld.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=rJgv_MkMEEAElGYRgyUA:9 a=f1j4ZZMiF4mtxz5ZJ5kA:7 a=yi43M9NMmTEZf39zYB45L7BOYEQA:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=MVlnOHnAQ0oA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1512] In message <321605b34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: > In message of 21 Jun, Paul Vigay wrote: >> 100 customers each paying =A3100 for an update would bring in =A310,00= 0 >> which might contribute to a few months programming.... > When I retired in 2000 the going rate for a contract programmer was a > mere =A3250 a day. Shall we say that it might, just be a bit more now?= > So =A310K is a 40 days work, not quite two months, and probably less th= an > that at current daily rates. I shall put you down as a no then Alan --=20 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 19:08:02 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KA7SF-4DU000-03-CbM.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:08:02 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KA7SF-4DU000-03-CbM; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:04:51 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KA7SF-4DU000-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:04:51 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KA7SF-0000fP-2w for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:04:51 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9D7A6862587; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25944-03; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1876A862C85; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:04:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:04:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2613D862587 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:04:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25803-04 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:04:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.49]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id AB4AE862B5C for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:04:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080621180930.DAWF16629.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:09:30 +0100 Received: from iyonix.ntlworld.com ([82.1.169.32]) by aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080621180657.INTW29365.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@iyonix.ntlworld.com> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:06:57 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions To: davidpilling@freelists.org Mail-Followup-To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Dr Alan Leighton X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:06:19 +0100 Message-ID: References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk> <187ef4b24f.alan@ntlworld.com> <4b75f5b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <799804b34f.alan@ntlworld.com> <951a05b34f.Bryan@btinternet.com> In-Reply-To: <951a05b34f.Bryan@btinternet.com> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 800 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: alan.leighton2@ntlworld.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=6fKVpRdU75Q1i6g1dFcA:9 a=yYg0yOdwsFRG_HycEHkA:7 a=UcGtCu4nVGm1jBcFZijXcYjgv6gA:4 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1512] In message <951a05b34f.Bryan@btinternet.com> Bryan wrote: > In message <799804b34f.alan@ntlworld.com> > Dr Alan Leighton wrote: > [snip] >> Err is that a no? It may cost more than =A350 but first we need to set= a >> base line for David to respond to. If he sees a lot of interest then >> we can take it from there. David has done a lot of work in the PC >> version which he says some of it can be can be ported over to RISC OS >> version. I have had my money worth out of DP for all those updated he >> never charged for. >> Alan > Why not do it as Martin Wuerthner does with EasiWriter, offer a set of > updates and vote on that set - that way the majority of people get > what they want and David can price accordingly. Another no. I wish David would do the same. Alan --=20 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 19:23:02 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KA7ae-1wfVbs-04-CSx.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:23:02 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KA7ae-1wfVbs-04-CSx; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:13:32 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KA7ae-1wfVbs-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:13:32 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KA7ad-0004N4-MJ for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:13:32 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 15CE4862431; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:13:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26757-10; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 826EE862613; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:12:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0EC5D862431 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:12:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26667-07 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:12:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp807.mail.ird.yahoo.com (smtp807.mail.ird.yahoo.com [217.146.188.67]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with SMTP id 8E2C1862077 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:12:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 83564 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2008 18:12:50 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Subject:To:Mail-Followup-To:From:X-Editor:Date:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=RcD4pJry51j7ptn95RjUyTEmorn+vfUY+5bA/moSFM+ZA1Llmqx4RtSV3bmO3j3LQCo3fqOOwwmBc2VjMhNwIQJ2xTIGqA7inYMw0MhyxGgSmt0Poxvu8whcxd0OcryzjGZB1MyOb15nsPazc9HM2H7Y4v6ziIGxvEtAwNDhEDU= ; Received: from unknown (HELO MyIyonix.btinternet.com) (bryanpage1@btinternet.com@86.153.246.138 with login) by smtp807.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2008 18:12:50 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: W2VVKnIVM1mYhF.Z_SOdgnvk7SAJo96IQs6GLBhM2m2lIdyqL3dQV8yFnstzqrfcbTF2rwFFVkal_RGgqc0znfo3534D73cRaw50MNh_BBmLkpSt1byl82r1yE5EbpOPloE- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions To: davidpilling@freelists.org Mail-Followup-To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Bryan X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:12:21 +0100 Message-ID: <2d2e08b34f.Bryan@btinternet.com> References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk> <187ef4b24f.alan@ntlworld.com> <4b75f5b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <799804b34f.alan@ntlworld.com> <951a05b34f.Bryan@btinternet.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 801 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: bryanpage1@btinternet.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=isBDDDMBoYyxQ2vYjFMA:9 a=X8VqOgIlPEFvfnchjTMA:7 a=yphI5JXrURjkxb3C34rSTFhLoEkA:4 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1512] In message Dr Alan Leighton wrote: [snip] > Another no. I wish David would do the same. > Alan I find your answer a little short to say the least, please explain. Bryan -- Using an Iyonix Aria Cube running Risc OS 5.13 and Virtual RPC AdjustSA running RO 6.10 on a PC. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 19:53:03 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KA84F-1c6000-08-BzM.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:53:03 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KA84F-1c6000-08-BzM; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:44:07 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KA84F-1c6000-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:44:07 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KA84E-0003mZ-Qz for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:44:07 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C6026861DDD; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:44:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29749-04; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:44:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3D4A28623FE; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:44:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:43:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6AEB6861DDD for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:43:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29618-08 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:43:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.47]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 04D1D85E83D for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:43:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080621184750.LWKV28496.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:47:50 +0100 Received: from iyonix.ntlworld.com ([82.1.169.32]) by aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080621184332.FWYL18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@iyonix.ntlworld.com> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:43:32 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions To: davidpilling@freelists.org Mail-Followup-To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Dr Alan Leighton X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:46:08 +0100 Message-ID: <07460bb34f.alan@ntlworld.com> References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk> <187ef4b24f.alan@ntlworld.com> <4b75f5b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <799804b34f.alan@ntlworld.com> <951a05b34f.Bryan@btinternet.com> <2d2e08b34f.Bryan@btinternet.com> In-Reply-To: <2d2e08b34f.Bryan@btinternet.com> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 802 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: alan.leighton2@ntlworld.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=nburpIHWRxfjngaNc74A:9 a=minHsLwxoXhPxYZ8lwgA:7 a=RDxCrCMaBf1H3qSGEVotSV281eUA:4 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1512] In message <2d2e08b34f.Bryan@btinternet.com> Bryan wrote: > In message > Dr Alan Leighton wrote: > [snip] >> Another no. I wish David would do the same. >> Alan > I find your answer a little short to say the least, please explain. Sorry Bryan I thought you had read the original posting. Which said in essence who would support a paid update. I am listing the replies. Blessings Alan -- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 20:08:03 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KA8IB-4VjVbs-02-BlQ.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 20:08:03 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KA8IB-4VjVbs-02-BlQ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:58:31 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KA8IB-4VjVbs-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:58:31 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KA8IA-0005Xk-Jg for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 18:58:31 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0F7A5862238; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30892-05; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:58:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 761E08621F2; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:58:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:57:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CCE4F862745 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:57:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30765-09 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:57:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp810.mail.ird.yahoo.com (smtp810.mail.ird.yahoo.com [217.146.188.70]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with SMTP id 60517862072 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:57:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 77380 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2008 18:57:50 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btinternet.com; h=Received:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Subject:To:Mail-Followup-To:From:X-Editor:Date:Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=UvWqgwTbdLZ6cH+t0p1Sp4X5QV92ntT/IhCzTqrHV4RtKtl1jsRNayb7Ukkrr7LN4xqIzw91dEvmEN5RQFOGx6vy1x/HKr8kk4TeJsSd/pJZdQ7DLSdiT0OkZf3YGlVnN55cgerOt0FMJCe0co4w69FcD2XdPR8cZkZR5HuA+dk= ; Received: from unknown (HELO MyIyonix.btinternet.com) (bryanpage1@btinternet.com@86.153.246.138 with login) by smtp810.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jun 2008 18:57:50 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: l9YpwDcVM1lXxf2jLZv_S4TVzIrVq.K.RFrBzwRrMC0CtwU1aEITJemxeIVzCbgMLl5d3EiS3e9cHLWF89JtB1k39cAZkmS.sF_fcD0_OM2P4MCYU4MzFcxLMgFFGCYe8Iw- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions To: davidpilling@freelists.org Mail-Followup-To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Bryan X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:58:02 +0100 Message-ID: References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk> <187ef4b24f.alan@ntlworld.com> <4b75f5b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <799804b34f.alan@ntlworld.com> <951a05b34f.Bryan@btinternet.com> <2d2e08b34f.Bryan@btinternet.com> <07460bb34f.alan@ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: <07460bb34f.alan@ntlworld.com> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 803 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: bryanpage1@btinternet.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=M-hMJqDIBfybM1Hg-X4A:9 a=887Z8t0CPCCrRwZMTFoA:7 a=SxxBZgc1M-mFSvw07U56h5NAAk4A:4 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1512] In message <07460bb34f.alan@ntlworld.com> Dr Alan Leighton wrote: [snip] > Sorry Bryan I thought you had read the original posting. Which said in > essence who would support a paid update. > I am listing the replies. > Blessings > Alan The answer to that would be a resounding "Yes" and my apologies for not having read the previous postings. Bryan -- Using an Iyonix Aria Cube running Risc OS 5.13 and Virtual RPC AdjustSA running RO 6.10 on a PC. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sat Jun 21 20:38:04 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KA8jA-49qVbs-04-BKR.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 20:38:04 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KA8jA-49qVbs-04-BKR; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:26:24 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KA8jA-49qVbs-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:26:24 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KA8jA-0006XV-Ex for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:26:24 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id F24BC862596; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00367-07; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6CADA8626F7; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:26:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:25:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E798E862596 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:25:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32691-10 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:25:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.talktalk.net (smtp-out-1.talktalk.net [62.24.128.231]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9913C86258F for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 15:25:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Path: TTSMTP X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AoIyAKjyXEhOlPCVPGdsb2JhbACBP5EfAQEBAS2bKA Received: from unknown (HELO Kinetic.) ([78.148.240.149]) by smtp.talktalk.net with ESMTP; 21 Jun 2008 20:25:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steve Yandell To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 20:25:36 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions Message-ID: <4fb30ee305steyan@talktalk.net> In-Reply-To: <07460bb34f.alan@ntlworld.com> References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk> <187ef4b24f.alan@ntlworld.com> <4b75f5b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <799804b34f.alan@ntlworld.com> <951a05b34f.Bryan@btinternet.com> <2d2e08b34f.Bryan@btinternet.com> <07460bb34f.alan@ntlworld.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/6.10) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 804 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: steyan@talktalk.net Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=wsfpr4vr21Eb5lfQGFcA:9 a=HrE5GUHMff5SyUB4JDYA:7 a=OOF5lmMVC5ZW_sghAvdmH8-TJ6UA:4 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=muIvw5a9-cgA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1512] On 21 Jun, Dr Alan Leighton wrote: > I am listing the replies. > Blessings > Alan In the hope that such a list might persuade David, I would say yay. I have been lost in wonderment at both David and Martin's capacity not just to write programs but to understand the needs of professional users of DTP, graphics packages and how printing processes work. -- steyan@talktalk.net To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 22 11:58:18 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KAAh9-3JR000-01-9MS.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 11:58:18 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KAAh9-3JR000-01-9MS; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 21:32:27 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KAAh9-3JR000-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 21:32:27 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KAAh9-0003CT-37 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 21:32:27 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B66288630D4; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:32:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10979-03; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:32:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2DCE486314A; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:32:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:31:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 883148630D4 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:31:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10876-07 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:31:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3EC3E862D14 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:31:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panther (backup.vigay.com [82.163.120.21]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m5LLVBZS024380 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 22:31:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Vigay To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 22:29:44 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions Message-ID: <4fb31a4054lists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: <321605b34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk> <187ef4b24f.alan@ntlworld.com> <4b75f5b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2fd44f7lists-nospam@vigay.com> <321605b34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 X-No-Archive: yes Sensitivity: Private Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 805 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists-nospam@vigay.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=0xqhCTqKAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=7gFVYm8u6EUd3Ez4YhQA:9 a=Aa836SZUlFECpm1DQuMA:7 a=BUrOm9h46_7T-EfOS-5qQHEOJl4A:4 a=4SztSTlPBk4A:10 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1513] In a dim and distant universe <321605b34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>, Tim Powys-Lybbe enlightened us thusly: > When I retired in 2000 the going rate for a contract programmer was a > mere =A3250 a day. I'm in the wrong job. :-( I get less than that a week! Paul Vigay Editor, www.RISCOS.org -- Using, programming and promoting RISC OS - the most productive computer system in the world. Check it out now, and change your view of computers!! To reply/email, visit http://www.riscos.org/feedback/ 21 of Life's Unanswered Questions... 10. Why is it that rain drops but snow falls? To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 22 11:58:20 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KAB6b-4IaVbs-07-8x0.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 11:58:20 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KAB6b-4IaVbs-07-8x0; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 21:58:45 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KAB6b-4IaVbs-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 21:58:45 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KAB6V-0006dc-GM for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 21:58:45 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E927E862CEB; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12810-07; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 66377862D09; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:58:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:57:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D17EE862CEB for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:57:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12578-06 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:57:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ptb-relay02.plus.net (ptb-relay02.plus.net [212.159.14.213]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9B5FC862CE8 for ; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 17:57:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [84.92.97.176] (helo=greatest) by ptb-relay02.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1KAB5d-0004vN-Cl for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 22:57:50 +0100 Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 22:52:48 +0100 From: Tim Powys-Lybbe To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions Message-ID: References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk> <187ef4b24f.alan@ntlworld.com> <4b75f5b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2fd44f7lists-nospam@vigay.com> <321605b34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: South Farm, Calstone, Calne, Wilts, England (no house here!) User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Plusnet-Relay: 4b63cea99510ffdcb9fca9a601b4b66b X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 806 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: tim@powys.org Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=v6Aic-fSAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=kNYRTAWQZG6ilC2-X4gA:9 a=WdMXJFq0YJhBilwLWNMA:7 a=9NuQtncdoBE1Blu4eiLLgG4TD7QA:4 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=MVlnOHnAQ0oA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1513] In message of 21 Jun, Dr Alan Leighton wrote: > In message <321605b34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> > Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: >=20 > > In message of 21 Jun, Paul Vigay wrote: >=20 > >> 100 customers each paying =A3100 for an update would bring rin > >> =A310,000 which might contribute to a few months programming.... >=20 > > When I retired in 2000 the going rate for a contrarct programmer was > > a mere =A3250 a day. Shall we say that it might, just be a bit more > > now? So =A310K is a 40 days work, not quite two months, and probably > > less than that at current daily rates. >=20 > I shall put you down as a no then Can't see why. --=20 Tim Powys-Lybbe=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0tim@pow= ys.org =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0For a miscellany of bygones: http:= //powys.org/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpill= ing From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 22 11:58:21 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KAClA-46Fknw-06-Fox.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 22 Jun 2008 11:58:21 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KAClA-46Fknw-06-Fox; Sat, 21 Jun 2008 23:44:44 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KAClA-46Fknw-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; 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Sun, 22 Jun 2008 11:44:02 +1200 (NZST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Keith Hopper To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 11:45:11 +1200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions Message-ID: <4fb326a6bdasgard@inspire.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <321605b34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk> <187ef4b24f.alan@ntlworld.com> <4b75f5b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2fd44f7lists-nospam@vigay.com> <321605b34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.11) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 807 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: asgard@inspire.net.nz Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=boZg6xF9ssJEtFJJPw4A:9 a=pU_Z3NvgL9Vz0d9YpIAA:7 a=dvD6tXoGLFHGc1PQoiWQvkcmzUwA:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=MVlnOHnAQ0oA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1513] In article <321605b34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>, Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: > In message of 21 Jun, Paul Vigay wrote: > > 100 customers each paying =A3100 for an update would bring in =A310,000 > > which might contribute to a few months programming.... > When I retired in 2000 the going rate for a contract programmer was a > mere =A3250 a day. Shall we say that it might, just be a bit more now? > So =A310K is a 40 days work, not quite two months, and probably less than > that at current daily rates. As I commented in a news group earlier today I am happy to pay GBP50 or over if necessary - even though I don't use OvnPro as much as I used to - my wife does. If you are thinking of a wish list then, before we 'vote' I would suggest that David's advice on likely cost (in time or money terms) of each item on the list could be helpful. I know that my 'most wanted' feature is likely to be fearfully expensive so I will just keep my mush shut!! Keith --=20 Inspired! To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 11:23:46 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KAgAt-4NXknw-06-Bym.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:23:46 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KAgAt-4NXknw-06-Bym; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 07:09:15 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KAgAt-4NXknw-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 07:09:15 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KAgAs-0007nd-Ri for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 07:09:15 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4D8EE863438; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 03:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04275-09; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 03:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C48CA863345; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 03:09:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 23 Jun 2008 03:08:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 49E6F86345D for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 03:08:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04199-02 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 03:08:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mk-outboundfilter-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-outboundfilter-3.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.23]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E03E9863437 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 03:08:34 -0400 (EDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEAEBvV0jDiXpU/2dsb2JhbACvBAM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,688,1204502400"; d="scan'208";a="135127887" X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from i-195-137-122-84.freedom2surf.net (HELO lab) ([195.137.122.84]) by smtp.f2s.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 23 Jun 2008 08:08:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Torrens (lists)" To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 08:08:23 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 808 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: Lists@torrens.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=ey2iPqIFAAAA:8 a=Q2MTwp5kAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=W__X8tBUNg2G3W812iEA:9 a=0ypvwC4qQFkLa3EjDToA:7 a=7TcDiP6TvOOwZpy2znJyuNjLk6wA:4 a=hpF-ijbX5cwA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1513] What Dave needs is only in part money. He needs to be able to see, or even imagine, a light at the end of the tunnel. Hindsight is wonderful stuff. We can all think of things that should have been done years ago. Yes, doing a chargeable upgrade now will give him a little cash. But O-Pro's too good to upgrade much. Any upgrades can only get thinner on the ground. So can we all get together and do something that will get O-Pro noticed? What? So we can all busily transcribe books. And form a O-Pro web ring showing examples. For a long time I have put 4QD's technical manuals on the ww. I do not know is anyone uses them in that form. I have to also have present a pdf file! To anyone already interested in O-Pro, yes some of them are pretty examples of what O-Pro and Vector can do, e.g. http://www.4qd.co.uk/instrs/OPro/Pro_150Ser.dpd but it's hardly going to attract new users. Has anyone else any similar resources? Could we form a web ring? I have recently added a section of Opera libretti. http://www.Torrens.org.uk/Opera/index.html If that was a _lot_ bigger - yes something like that could attract interest. but some such resource needs to be huge, either as a single resource or as a linked set. If it's bit enough, it could get (paper) press attention, world-wide. But only in the musical press. O-Pro needs some such resource big enough and general enough to get proper press attention. Can we think of a project, and enough of us combine to do it? To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 11:23:46 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KAhTw-2bbknw-04-Afj.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:23:46 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KAhTw-2bbknw-04-Afj; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 08:33:00 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KAhTw-2bbknw-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 08:33:00 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KAhTw-0007Gy-Cq for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 08:33:00 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B5EE3863066; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 04:32:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10934-02; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 04:32:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3C79B8633BB; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 04:32:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 23 Jun 2008 04:32:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 47757863066 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 04:32:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10687-07 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 04:32:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pih-relay06.plus.net (pih-relay06.plus.net [212.159.14.133]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E1B3C862C9F for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 04:32:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [84.92.97.176] (helo=greatest) by pih-relay06.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1KAhTB-0002T6-Dt for davidpilling@freelists.org; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:32:18 +0100 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:26:59 +0100 From: Tim Powys-Lybbe To: davidpilling@freelists.org Message-ID: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: South Farm, Calstone, Calne, Wilts, England (no house here!) User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 Subject: [softwarelist] Loading pictures into OPro MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Plusnet-Relay: c49aabe7e409d5a1ea633fc46411c125 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 809 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: tim@powys.org Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=CVu5_CJqJk4A:10 a=hoVx7TwzztgA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=v6Aic-fSAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=P2yDYHpMVb4t3Hz_L9wA:9 a=rici1hAdV7xclZMc6u4A:7 a=gx4rwy_60AzcPsQMLmoFSIu3sAoA:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=-ZQhYGXY2L8A:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1513] For some years now I have been using OPro to construct PDF files that consist of a series of pictures (scans) of old documents. By and large I find that this can only be done successfully by converting the pictures to (large) sprites. Using alternative strategies has one or two problems: First: Set OPro to load by Reference for files above 210 Kbytes. -------------------------------------------------------- To demonstrate this problem, I made a one-page document into which I loaded a 3.5M Tiff file, with 16-bit colour. It loaded OK. Then: Saved it, Closed the file Reloaded the file and got the error "Bad Page Number" The file was in fact corrupt and had to be deleted. Sometimes I have had to kill OPro to clear this. =20 Second: Load in 1-bit Tiff files ------------------------ Again I started with a one-page document. The one-bit Tiff files are black and white, made by scanning with DPlngScan and thus of very low size. Trying to load these produces the error: "Unknown or missing variable (internal number 6282)" The file is not corrupted by this and loading a usable graphics file over the same page gives a usable result. Third: Load in 1-bit Gif files ----------------------- Using the same file as in the previous example I converted them to Gif; this increased the size from, say, 40 Kbytes or so to 60 Kbytes or so. The Gif files would load into OPro with no trouble; but saving the OPro file resulted in a file of 6 Mbytes (yes, Mega). Fourth: Load in 1-bit Sprite files -------------------------- Using the same file as in the previous two examples, but converted to sprite of, say, 256 Kbytes, the resulting OPro file was totally OK and was a mere 263 Kbytes. All these images have been scanned in by DPlngScan, which is perhaps my most frequently used of all RISC OS applications, e-mailing apart. A totally alternative strategy might be to use another program to assemble all the images to join them together into one PDF file. But I have yet to find a program that does this as easily as OPro - and I have tried Easiwriter. Any suggestions, anyone? --=20 Tim Powys-Lybbe=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0tim@pow= ys.org =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0For a miscellany of bygones: http:= //powys.org/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpill= ing From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 11:23:48 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KAiI4-0Lr000-06-9rb.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:23:48 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KAiI4-0Lr000-06-9rb; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:24:48 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KAiI4-0Lr000-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:24:48 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KAiI3-0004l7-Hy for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:24:47 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 49AE1863084; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:24:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15940-01; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:24:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CBE83862EB9; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:24:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:24:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D6E5A862B9D for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:24:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15766-06 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:24:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hpsmtp-eml15.kpnxchange.com (hpsmtp-eml15.kpnxchange.com [213.75.38.115]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 85E818628F2 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:24:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cpsmtp-eml113.kpnxchange.com ([213.75.84.113]) by hpsmtp-eml15.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:23:58 +0200 Received: from iyonix.delink.speed.planet.nl ([81.204.75.73]) by cpsmtp-eml113.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:23:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Sprangers To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:24:55 +0200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb3df9051Paul@sprie.nl> In-Reply-To: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) Content-Type: text/plain X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jun 2008 09:23:58.0887 (UTC) FILETIME=[DDE3A370:01C8D512] X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 810 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: Paul@sprie.nl Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=ey2iPqIFAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=zd3IxBPUy_UJBCl1o-0A:9 a=NSpLkD1xYG0kEBZ97ZMA:7 a=EXfqlPNC7paq9oLzFtXPJX2q3dEA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1513] In article <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk>, Torrens (lists) wrote: > To anyone already interested in O-Pro, yes some of them are pretty > examples of what O-Pro and Vector can do, e.g. > http://www.4qd.co.uk/instrs/OPro/Pro_150Ser.dpd but it's hardly going to > attract new users. I think that pretty examples might help to attract attention indeed, but it would be much better if we could somehow make clear how EASY it is to create such examples - often even much easier than in Impression, that many people still appear to consider superior. However, I've no idea how this should be made clear in examples. Kind regards, Paul Sprangers To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 11:23:48 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KAijE-1nbknw-03-9QR.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:23:48 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KAijE-1nbknw-03-9QR; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:52:52 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KAijE-1nbknw-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:52:52 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KAijD-0005T1-IZ for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:52:52 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E5B5786326E; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:52:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18409-08; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:52:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 64C6286329D; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:52:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:52:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D23AE862CE6 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18230-05 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mk-outboundfilter-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-outboundfilter-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.32]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6B291862FDC for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:52:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Trace: 101532510/mk-outboundfilter-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com/F2S/$ACCEPTED/freedom2Surf-customers/195.137.122.84 X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 195.137.122.84 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: Lists@torrens.org.uk X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEAOMOX0jDiXpU/2dsb2JhbACwYQM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,689,1204502400"; d="scan'208";a="101532510" X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from i-195-137-122-84.freedom2surf.net (HELO lab) ([195.137.122.84]) by smtp.f2s.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 23 Jun 2008 10:52:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Torrens (lists)" To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:37:01 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb3e0abd0Lists@torrens.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb3df9051Paul@sprie.nl> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb3df9051Paul@sprie.nl> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 811 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: Lists@torrens.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=ey2iPqIFAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=2D6be9FfCJ7umcZyd60A:9 a=cgC1p4_Z1H4f-iGSNQQA:7 a=LkIYCPIIki5ozYhKaRrisxq5q90A:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1513] In article <4fb3df9051Paul@sprie.nl>, Paul Sprangers wrote: > In article <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk>, > Torrens (lists) wrote: > > To anyone already interested in O-Pro, yes some of them are pretty > > examples of what O-Pro and Vector can do, e.g. > > http://www.4qd.co.uk/instrs/OPro/Pro_150Ser.dpd but it's hardly going to > > attract new users. > I think that pretty examples might help to attract attention indeed, but > it would be much better if we could somehow make clear how EASY it is to > create such examples - often even much easier than in Impression, that > many people still appear to consider superior. However, I've no idea how > this should be made clear in examples. Indeed. But until people have noticed O-Pro, they aren't going to be interested in using it! But you raise another point. If we can find the right project it's going to be enjoyable using O-Pro to do it! The only reason that I bothered to do the Libretti is that O-Pro is enjoyable and relaxing to use. No amount of telling potential new users how much fun it is and how easy it is will ever convince them (unless someone wants to fork out for hugely expensive advertising) as this will simply be dismissed as sales hype. Remember that for most peple using anything under windoze is not fun. They simply know no better! To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 11:23:49 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KAijK-2l8GPo-01-9QL.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:23:49 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KAijK-2l8GPo-01-9QL; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:52:58 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KAijK-2l8GPo-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:52:58 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KAijK-00008S-JS for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:52:58 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 49E0E863030; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:52:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18427-05; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:52:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CC205862CE6; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:52:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:52:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 49720863030 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:52:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18146-09 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:52:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mk-outboundfilter-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-outboundfilter-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.32]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 00DC8862FDC for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 05:52:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Trace: 101532514/mk-outboundfilter-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com/F2S/$ACCEPTED/freedom2Surf-customers/195.137.122.84 X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 195.137.122.84 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: Lists@torrens.org.uk X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEAOMOX0jDiXpU/2dsb2JhbACwYQM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,689,1204502400"; d="scan'208";a="101532514" X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from i-195-137-122-84.freedom2surf.net (HELO lab) ([195.137.122.84]) by smtp.f2s.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 23 Jun 2008 10:52:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Torrens (lists)" To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:52:07 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb3e20dc3Lists@torrens.org.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 812 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: Lists@torrens.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=bX5TI-8lpBuhUdWKPWUA:9 a=yAom455dD1jO3xcV9J0A:7 a=oIq28gn48V-DH6iW2_Ho_PWJ7v4A:4 a=3I_whO4B8K8A:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1513] Just in case any of you are interested in seeing if anything happens, I have just posted to rec.music.opera informing them of my libretto transcriptions. I'm interested myself to see what the reaction will be! To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 11:23:49 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KAj7S-2N3Vbs-07-92D.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:23:49 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KAj7S-2N3Vbs-07-92D; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:17:54 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KAj7S-2N3Vbs-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:17:54 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KAj7R-0002nI-Lo for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:17:53 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 27C5786278C; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 06:17:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20439-08; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 06:17:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id AAA68862B69; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 06:17:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 23 Jun 2008 06:17:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 96A1686278C for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 06:17:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20325-10 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 06:17:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mk-outboundfilter-5.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-outboundfilter-5.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 48AE286273D for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 06:17:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Trace: 47947024/mk-outboundfilter-5.mail.uk.tiscali.com/F2S/$ACCEPTED/freedom2Surf-customers/195.137.122.84 X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 195.137.122.84 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: Lists@torrens.org.uk X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEAHMVX0jDiXpU/2dsb2JhbACwSgM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,689,1204502400"; d="scan'208";a="47947024" X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from i-195-137-122-84.freedom2surf.net (HELO lab) ([195.137.122.84]) by smtp.f2s.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 23 Jun 2008 11:17:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Torrens (lists)" To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:56:25 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro Message-ID: <4fb3e272e3Lists@torrens.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 813 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: Lists@torrens.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=vcSg4NEPhmhjVkX5vUAA:9 a=XfAGUtSnlgrT-4zTlHYA:7 a=qolCCGQDUkEjYnT0CZnGYPREf5AA:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1513] In article <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>, Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: > For some years now I have been using OPro to construct PDF files that > consist of a series of pictures (scans) of old documents. By and large > I find that this can only be done successfully by converting the > pictures to (large) sprites. I would have thought jpeg files were ideal. I find O-Pro's handling of jpegs exemplary and scans of old documents are suficiently granular that gifs are large, as are tiffs. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 11:24:05 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KAsb8-00p005-08-xE9.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:24:05 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KAsb8-00p005-08-xE9; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 20:25:11 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KAsb8-00p005-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 20:25:11 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KAsSl-0005TQ-4c for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 20:16:33 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1A0198634F4; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:16:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21288-05; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:16:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9F22786355F; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:16:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:15:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E38778634F4 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21177-03 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pih-relay04.plus.net (pih-relay04.plus.net [212.159.14.131]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8B83D8631BC for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 16:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [84.92.97.176] (helo=greatest) by pih-relay04.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1KAsS4-0002z3-3q for davidpilling@freelists.org; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:15:48 +0100 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:11:51 +0100 From: Tim Powys-Lybbe To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro Message-ID: <0fcb1ab44f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <0a4be2b34f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <0a4be2b34f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> X-Organization: South Farm, Calstone, Calne, Wilts, England (no house here!) User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Plusnet-Relay: 3f407cfab402e642ad8ee006b82c180f X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 818 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: tim@powys.org Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=v6Aic-fSAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=V-pFFdul9-VT_EtP0WgA:9 a=waWYZV2bizYhqfHIO10A:7 a=ve111bPbk3m8S2e4eyASD1ScvTUA:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1513] In message of 23 Jun, Dr Peter Young wrote: > On 23 Jun 2008 Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: >=20 > [snip] >=20 > > A totally alternative strategy might be to use another program to > > assemble all the images to join them together into one PDF file. But= I > > have yet to find a program that does this as easily as OPro - and I h= ave > > tried Easiwriter. Any suggestions, anyone? >=20 >=20 > No idea if this would work, but perhaps worth a try? Use a program=20 > like WebGallery to make a web-page of the images, and "print" this=20 > using PrintPDF? Yes, I was wondering earlier today if some other iterative program would do the business. I had a good look at Labella and WebGallery. Labella will only accept Draw types of files, which is a bit laborious, and WebGallery did not seem to have a facility to pump out A4 size images, whatever the size of the incoming picture. WebGallery only accepts JPEGs and GIFs for input at the moment and I'm not sure this will do what I want. I even gave it a few moments thought that I could write a program to load images and output a series of pages in some sort of file. It did not take long to realise that this would be complicated. But I wonder if screen background display programs, such as BDRand by Nick Roberts, might have some of the core technology? In fact I have now completed the latest assembly via OPro. The laborious step was converting all the input to Sprites. Then I loaded each sprite in turn into OPro which auto-enlarges or constricts the images to nicely fit inside the chosen frame. Nearly all the images were loaded by Reference leading to an OPro file size of 668K, even though the 70 images totalled some 34.6M. The resulting PDF file was a mere 6.7M; this compares will with the total of 7.7M of the source Tiff files. Using sprites, the OPro file is completely stable and shows none of the problems I found when using Tiffs or Gifs - and reported earlier today. --=20 Tim Powys-Lybbe=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0tim@pow= ys.org =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0For a miscellany of bygones: http:= //powys.org/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpill= ing From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 11:24:05 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KAscN-01n002-06-ogO.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:24:05 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KAscN-01n002-06-ogO; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 20:26:43 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KAscN-01n002-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 20:26:43 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KAs5t-0002c7-8z for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 19:52:54 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A7D428636EC; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:52:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18546-04; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:52:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 269578635A4; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:52:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:52:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1011C8636EC for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:52:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18347-08 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:52:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mk-outboundfilter-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-outboundfilter-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.37]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 06E188636EB for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:52:05 -0400 (EDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhEBAEBvV0hYaXlc/2dsb2JhbAAIrnw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,692,1204502400"; d="scan'208";a="135537083" X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from 88-105-121-92.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com (HELO [10.0.0.6]) ([88.105.121.92]) by smtp.pipex.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 23 Jun 2008 20:52:03 +0100 Message-ID: <485FFEE3.9020808@zionundy.me.uk> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 20:52:03 +0100 From: Bernard G Hill User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080505) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Unwanted font definitions References: <4faf0642b8asgard@inspire.net.nz> <4fb1ed494bLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb24ffeeeLists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb28a4e50Lists@torrens.org.uk> <94a696b24f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk> <187ef4b24f.alan@ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: <187ef4b24f.alan@ntlworld.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 817 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: berni@zionundy.me.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=jleGHzKj7hYA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=j1SxvI4MULkHjDV3nbQA:9 a=74BnodAUJkapciaYnFoA:7 a=nIosbXTac7Z4LSXmVlg8kbB4peEA:4 a=nrUGvYwLnKIA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.130 [270.4.1/1513] Dr Alan Leighton wrote: > In message > David Pilling wrote: >=20 >> In message <4fb2e1d238Lists@torrens.org.uk>, "Torrens (lists)" >> writes >>> Yes, having to admit that there is no future in a OS you do like, and >>> moving to an OS you do not, simply to make a living, must be a a majo= r >>> de-motivator. >=20 >> RISC OS was far ahead of Microsoft in 1988, it is now far behind. >> There's a lot wrong with RISC OS from a 2008 perspective. >=20 >> I have not made a living from Windows, my Windows experience has been >> more dispiriting than my RISC OS one. >=20 >>> But you have always been reluctant to do chargeable upgrades for RISC= OS. >>> Are there enough changes you could port back into RO to appease your >>> conscience about making an upgrade charge, and are there enough RO us= ers >>> left and willing to pay a charge to make it worth your while? >=20 >> My feeling about charging for RISC OS upgrades post 1998 has been that >> to do so was misleading (things were not going to go on for ever). >=20 >> Nearly ten years after Acorn. I think I was wrong about a couple of >> things, RISC OS has gone on longer than I expected and I might as well >> have put the four years work that went into Ovation Pro for Windows in= to >> the RISC OS version. >=20 >> Paid for upgrades would not have saved Ovation Pro, the thing that wou= ld >> have done, was more users. I needed more people to see the copies in u= se >> and say "this is fantastic I must have it". >=20 >> All this comes back to finding a way forward... >=20 >> I'm thinking something like putting the source code into the public >> domain and myself departing to a new venture. However this is easier t= o >> say than to do. >=20 > Do a big update on the Riscos version and charge =A350 or maybe a bit=20 > more. I guess many would go for that. After all I pay for Easywriter=20 > updates and only use it 5% of the time compared with OPro. >=20 > If you decide to go ahead I know people like Jim Nagel, VA, etc give=20 > backing and free advertising. What do others think, can we have a=20 > response? >=20 > Vote my friends >=20 >=20 >=20 Count me in! Berni. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpill= ing From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 11:24:25 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KAtJW-0ne000-04-FtB.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:24:25 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KAtJW-0ne000-04-FtB; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:11:02 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KAtJW-0ne000-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:11:02 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KAkE2-0002ks-Df for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:28:46 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 02E728634D1; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 07:28:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26076-04; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 07:28:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7B7D18634D9; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 07:28:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 23 Jun 2008 07:28:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 746C48634D1 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 07:28:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26012-01 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 07:28:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fhw-relay07.plus.net (fhw-relay07.plus.net [212.159.14.215]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3DC1186348D for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 07:28:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [84.92.97.176] (helo=greatest) by fhw-relay07.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1KAkDN-00029v-JP for davidpilling@freelists.org; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:28:05 +0100 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:25:47 +0100 From: Tim Powys-Lybbe To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro Message-ID: <23a1eab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb3e272e3Lists@torrens.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb3e272e3Lists@torrens.org.uk> X-Organization: South Farm, Calstone, Calne, Wilts, England (no house here!) User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Plusnet-Relay: 11c22493df871cd9c179e989757e544f X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 814 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: tim@powys.org Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=v6Aic-fSAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=Fw5JXG5WNr_2XOu-CGIA:9 a=nPje47seUQwbqJ9YfnEA:7 a=ot3qh5Y0ehILxID-Tb4f3rjg9HIA:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In message of 23 Jun, "Torrens (lists)" wrote: > In article <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>, > Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: > > For some years now I have been using OPro to construct PDF files that > > consist of a series of pictures (scans) of old documents. By and lar= ge > > I find that this can only be done successfully by converting the > > pictures to (large) sprites. >=20 > I would have thought jpeg files were ideal. I find O-Pro's handling of > jpegs exemplary and scans of old documents are suficiently granular tha= t > gifs are large, as are tiffs. I did say that I was scanning to around 40K for a TIFF file - and that a GIF of the same was about 60K. Well I have taken one of these TIFF and, using the old faithful, DplngScan, converted it to JPEG. The file size shot up to 566K and the bits per pixel from 1 to 8. And never mind the slight deterioration one always gets when converting to JPEG (and noting that GIF also is lossy). Curiously for the same image, the Sprite file was a mere 334K. But this retained the 1 bpp. These respective file sizes are consistent across a wide range of documents. These 1 bpp files are scanned at 200 dpi. While this does not give the best result on screen which has around 80 dpi, it does give a very legible output on printer which will all handle 300 dpi these days and most a lot more than that. But this is not what I was reporting. I was reporting a few problems with OPro that led to error messages and difficulties. --=20 Tim Powys-Lybbe=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0tim@pow= ys.org =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0For a miscellany of bygones: http:= //powys.org/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpill= ing From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 11:24:25 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KAtNG-0ec00G-03-2SDh.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:24:25 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KAtNG-0ec00G-03-2SDh; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:15:51 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KAtNG-0ec00G-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:15:51 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KAnSU-0005sx-Od for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:56:00 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 858C4863174; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:55:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13696-02; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:55:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0AF10863489; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:55:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:55:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 34DB4863174 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13558-03 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pih-relay05.plus.net (pih-relay05.plus.net [212.159.14.132]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id F2701863057 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [80.229.143.2] (helo=radstock.localdomain) by pih-relay05.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1KAnRn-0005os-Qk for davidpilling@freelists.org; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:55:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Chris Johnson To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:54:45 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro Message-ID: <4fb3fdc2e8chris@chrisjohnson.plus.com> In-Reply-To: <23a1eab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb3e272e3Lists@torrens.org.uk> <23a1eab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) Content-Type: text/plain X-Plusnet-Relay: 67c30f95faed23953ef852a598b61fb9 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 816 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: chris@chrisjohnson.plus.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=it5Zdl8IbuJuo2YidzcA:9 a=AUsreQ5BQJLPZzk5Wp0A:7 a=xTOn2AZnOyHROwAw0zJHzEueB50A:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In article <23a1eab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>, Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: > GIF also is lossy Not strictly true that GIF is lossy - like sprites, BMPs etc, all the original information is retained. However, GIF is only 256 colours, so in that sense some colour information may be lost if a 24-bit colour image is converted to the 8 bit GIF format. For 1 - 8 bit images, no information is lost. JPEGS (and e.g. MP3s) are lossy because various techniques are used to discard what is 'considered' to be non-essential information to allow the high compression ratios. The information discarded can never be recovered. JPEGS are not recommended for colour images (or B&W) that have areas of constant, or near constant, colour, since the algorithm used to produce a jpeg will introduce artifacts, often seen as patches of slightly differing colour across a constant colour. Hence jpegs are ideal for real photos, since any artifacts are hidden by the constantly changing colours across the image, whereas for a e.g. Draw image, with large areas of constant colour, jpgs would not be a first choice. Sprite, TIFF, GIF would be better. PNG also, which is a lossless compression method, and also 24-bit with masks. If you go through a long sequence of only load/save/load/save with a jpeg, the quality slowly deteriorates, whereas with GIF, the final image will be identical to the original GIF. Sorry for rambling on - I've obviously got nothing better to do! Chris... -- Chris Johnson To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 11:24:28 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KAtXh-0x0002-07-nl4.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:24:28 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KAtXh-0x0002-07-nl4; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:26:41 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KAtXh-0x0002-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 21:26:41 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KAmew-0004vT-M4 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 14:04:43 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4ADAD863695; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:04:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08619-04; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:04:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A9BA086369F; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:04:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:04:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3C381863695 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08454-08 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (zen.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.18]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D866686369A for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:04:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Iyonix.pnyoung.ormail.co.uk ([88.202.196.4]) by zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m5NE3lHE014769 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:03:47 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Dr Peter Young X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:54:43 +0100 Message-ID: <0a4be2b34f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 815 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: pnyoung@ormail.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=CKwIYTfOAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=5pbKY86TVWjPiOFcoIsA:9 a=IFs0TbnWN2zn2EyLcIQA:7 a=9uqsTWblLPk9hdIw4jWlDw-FYbAA:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] On 23 Jun 2008 Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: [snip] > A totally alternative strategy might be to use another program to > assemble all the images to join them together into one PDF file. But I > have yet to find a program that does this as easily as OPro - and I have > tried Easiwriter. Any suggestions, anyone? No idea if this would work, but perhaps worth a try? Use a program like WebGallery to make a web-page of the images, and "print" this using PrintPDF? With best wishes, Peter. -- Peter \ / zfc Er \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52 Anne \/ __ __ \ England. and / / \ | | |\ | / _ \ http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk family / \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \______________ pnyoung@ormail.co.uk. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 11:24:39 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KAuip-0VQknw-07-ETs.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:24:39 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KAuip-0VQknw-07-ETs; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:41:15 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KAuip-0VQknw-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:41:15 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KAuio-0000I7-Jz for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:41:15 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E31A986483B; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03525-06-3; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6074D86485B; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:40:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 57EBA86477B for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:40:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03365-07 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:40:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.47]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 31665864771 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:40:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080623224449.VKPA28496.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 23:44:49 +0100 Received: from Snowwhite ([86.29.51.126]) by aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080623224030.CZBG18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@Snowwhite> for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2008 23:40:30 +0100 From: "Ian Barr" To: References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <0a4be2b34f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <0fcb1ab44f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <0fcb1ab44f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 23:39:55 +0100 Message-ID: <000601c8d582$125b7eb0$37127c10$@com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0 Thread-Index: AcjVbf/PxbWWponXQz6zh7br7UA3QAAE80Dg Content-Language: en-gb X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 819 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: ianbarr@supanet.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=5nPkVO1zAAAA:8 a=v6Aic-fSAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=EvsXyRc7jfKTDHoocRMA:9 a=GErzZ3u_B7r1_s4UDj0A:7 a=4QXVOGSZ43dzKuILCejkE5Y27gUA:4 a=btyeseNR-KIA:10 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=2uiCRmbCp6AA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] Have you tried JAlbum for creating web pages of images? http://jalbum.net/ -----Original Message----- From: [mailto:davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org] On Behalf Of Tim Powys-Lybbe Sent: 23 June 2008 21:12 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro In message of 23 Jun, Dr Peter Young wrote: > On 23 Jun 2008 Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: >=20 > [snip] >=20 > > A totally alternative strategy might be to use another program to > > assemble all the images to join them together into one PDF file. = But I > > have yet to find a program that does this as easily as OPro - and I = have > > tried Easiwriter. Any suggestions, anyone? >=20 >=20 > No idea if this would work, but perhaps worth a try? Use a program=20 > like WebGallery to make a web-page of the images, and "print" this=20 > using PrintPDF? Yes, I was wondering earlier today if some other iterative program would do the business. I had a good look at Labella and WebGallery. Labella will only accept Draw types of files, which is a bit laborious, and WebGallery did not seem to have a facility to pump out A4 size images, whatever the size of the incoming picture. WebGallery only accepts JPEGs and GIFs for input at the moment and I'm not sure this will do what I want. I even gave it a few moments thought that I could write a program to load images and output a series of pages in some sort of file. It did not take long to realise that this would be complicated. But I wonder if screen background display programs, such as BDRand by Nick Roberts, might have some of the core technology? In fact I have now completed the latest assembly via OPro. The laborious step was converting all the input to Sprites. Then I loaded each sprite in turn into OPro which auto-enlarges or constricts the images to nicely fit inside the chosen frame. Nearly all the images were loaded by Reference leading to an OPro file size of 668K, even though the 70 images totalled some 34.6M. The resulting PDF file was a mere 6.7M; this compares will with the total of 7.7M of the source Tiff files. Using sprites, the OPro file is completely stable and shows none of the problems I found when using Tiffs or Gifs - and reported earlier today. --=20 Tim = Powys-Lybbe=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0tim@powys.= org =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0For a miscellany of bygones: = http://powys.org/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: = http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 11:24:55 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB0kT-2a4GPo-01-Gyk.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:24:55 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB0kT-2a4GPo-01-Gyk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 05:07:21 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB0kT-2a4GPo-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 05:07:21 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB0kS-0005Cm-Sf for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 05:07:21 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D69F38643C4; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:07:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01120-08; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:07:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5DAE78643D5; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:07:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:06:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 813C18643C4 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:06:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00989-08 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:06:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (zen.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.18]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 33B878643C0 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:06:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave.nom ([88.202.207.43]) by zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m5O56WMl027534 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 06:06:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 06:06:11 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Loading pictures into OPro Message-ID: <4fb44bb643dave@triffid.co.uk> References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/6.10) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 820 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: dave@triffid.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=CVu5_CJqJk4A:10 a=hoVx7TwzztgA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=hMkESyGUdb6KIxaQK34A:9 a=_WrgFFfPSswDtRt9SiUA:7 a=aPzI2ooaI1bEZBin2IJnTalzxQ0A:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In article <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>, Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: > For some years now I have been using OPro to construct PDF files that > consist of a series of pictures (scans) of old documents. By and large > I find that this can only be done successfully by converting the > pictures to (large) sprites. > Using alternative strategies has one or two problems: [Snip] > A totally alternative strategy might be to use another program to > assemble all the images to join them together into one PDF file. But I > have yet to find a program that does this as easily as OPro - and I have > tried Easiwriter. Any suggestions, anyone? Have you tried using PNG files. I also use OvPro to construct PDF files, though on a smaller scale than you are doing,I can't say I've noticed any problems. Picture/Png 75,910 bytes. OvPro document just containing picture 319,068 bytes. PDF file (PrintPDF) 7,043 bytes. Dave S -- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 11:24:55 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB0sy-2n5GPo-03-GqF.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:24:55 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB0sy-2n5GPo-03-GqF; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 05:16:08 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB0sy-2n5GPo-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 05:16:08 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB0sy-0001EW-36 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 05:16:08 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9740886440B; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:16:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01795-03; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:16:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2E5E3864421; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:16:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:15:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 40D3286440B for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:15:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01699-03 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:15:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp5.clear.net.nz (smtp5.clear.net.nz [203.97.33.68]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E5C82864400 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 01:15:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Iyonix (121-72-171-29.dsl.telstraclear.net [121.72.171.29]) by smtp5.clear.net.nz (CLEAR Net Mail) with ESMTP id <0K2Y00JH5BXKZS00@smtp5.clear.net.nz> for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:15:26 +1200 (NZST) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:14:24 +1200 From: "lists (ww)" Subject: [softwarelist] DDL too big for text editors To: davidpilling@freelists.org Message-id: <4fb44c76eflists@ww.co.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain X-Editor: Zap 1.47 (20 Aug 2005) [TEST], ZapEmail 0.28.3 (25 Mar 2005) (32) User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.4 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 821 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists@ww.co.nz Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=bDIS7kRBWWcA:10 a=Tfk4C-BSRwQA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=sALDCjl9ryZo2QZKfYQA:9 a=LybcgFhddV7fhDKw_H0A:7 a=zdipn0DgUMQ9nZgOt5mFknqevhgA:4 a=gi0PWCVxevcA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] I have a 60KB OPro document of 7xA5 pages. Saved as OPro = 59MB Misc,min memory = 54MB DDL = 75MB but I can't open the DDL in Zap, Edit or StrongArm (sp) to check it. What do you recommend? Make two identical files and delete half the pages? Brian -- Auckland NEW ZEALAND To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 11:25:04 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB33p-0Rzknw-02-EfO.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:25:04 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB33p-0Rzknw-02-EfO; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:35:29 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB33p-0Rzknw-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:35:29 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB33p-0002mc-GL for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:35:29 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D9A4086446B; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 03:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11111-07; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 03:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6886986460F; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 03:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 03:34:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CA7BE86446B for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 03:34:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10971-09 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 03:34:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.186]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 74F23864450 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 03:34:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bach (88-134-110-250-dynip.superkabel.de [88.134.110.250]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu4) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0ML21M-1KB33A03iY-0000NW; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:34:48 +0200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: DDL too big for text editors To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Martin Wuerthner X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:35:18 +0200 Message-ID: <545d59b44f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> References: <4fb44c76eflists@ww.co.nz> In-Reply-To: <4fb44c76eflists@ww.co.nz> X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/kXpIGgsoiQtwv5l3XKbx93idEDz+ClUsUwar 89xq4YA+zINrZNRVyp4Oyw6dDzdbXEYxK6mU4DS5lWxVis7cpS H8XOB1ciAcwTCpLcbE0uFV14eUYEn1F X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 822 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: public@mw-software.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=lIBZ1r-sEucA:10 a=7wu1HnDvHdIA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=C4QmYdQpoc4xkmnnbgUA:9 a=6tIAiZ-aGuC6j7TMrm4A:7 a=6wZe8eSgta2DzLs34PNgrZ-6enYA:4 a=fl4ZfBcLCrEA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In message <4fb44c76eflists@ww.co.nz> "lists (ww)" wrote: > I have a 60KB OPro document of 7xA5 pages. > Saved as OPro = 59MB > Misc,min memory = 54MB > DDL = 75MB > but I can't open the DDL in Zap, Edit or StrongArm (sp) to check it. ^^^^^^^^^ StrongEd > What do you recommend? Presuming you have more than 75MB of memory free, you should be able to edit this file in any of the above editors. If you cannot, then at a guess, you are running Aemulor, which limits the amount of memory each application. Without Aemulor running it should work. Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From louie@orpheusmail.co.uk Tue Jun 24 11:25:05 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB3Ed-0yxknw-08-EUa.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:25:05 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB3Ed-0yxknw-08-EUa; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:46:39 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB3Ed-0yxknw-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:46:39 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.90] (helo=anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB3Ed-00029f-Hr for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:46:39 +0000 Received: from vigay.demon.co.uk ([80.177.103.19] helo=AriaCube) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KB3Ed-000GlN-7M for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:46:39 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Louie To: David Pilling Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:43:12 +0100 Subject: OvationPro Update Message-ID: <4fb45a1650louie@orpheusmail.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 Content-Type: text/plain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=2Zfq3aqyAREce8pte2sQew==:17 a=0AD0Xp_8hY51LMhl6EYA:9 a=WtYpLDrwq9SveuSeA3ONnGlG8OoA:4 a=50e4U0PicR4A:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] Hi David, Just thought I'd drop you a personal line to give my support and that of RISC OS Now should you decide to write a paid-for update (or free for that matter!) of OvationPro. You know obviously I use it for producing RISC OS Now, which is credited in the inside cover of the magazine. I would love to be able to support you in producing an update, whether it be by advertising (I already offered on the newsgroups free space to help promote it), and if you needed any help with printing of manuals/ accompanying merchandise I'd be more that willing to assist should you need it, and of course you can count myself and Paul in on the update! I truly believe that OvationPro is an excellent package and well worth the attention! Please let me know if there is anything I can help with! Kindest regards, Louie From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 11:25:05 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB3c3-2DBknw-08-E7A.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:25:05 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB3c3-2DBknw-08-E7A; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:10:51 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB3c3-2DBknw-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:10:51 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB3c1-00058r-7S for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:10:51 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2FC078646C3; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 04:10:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14037-02; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 04:10:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B8CB98646F7; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 04:10:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 04:10:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 488B78646C3 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 04:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13941-01 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 04:10:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pih-relay05.plus.net (pih-relay05.plus.net [212.159.14.132]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0CCEF864594 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 04:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [80.229.238.131] (helo=ASCENSION) by pih-relay05.plus.net with esmtpa (Exim) id 1KB3bL-0004Vo-06 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:10:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ned Abell To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:06:31 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] OP on Linux (revisited) Message-ID: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 Content-Type: text/plain X-Plusnet-Relay: 7314842355b795253741a0c2e9fc4787 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 823 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=QTaWKZTdanMA:10 a=io59jHz2K4YA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=Gq4BRO86aGY1aS0oAYEA:9 a=EDrKC8jLJNJLd0QRSCoA:7 a=87E7ux5LE6RLmsNbGs5FirtuGTIA:4 a=csDljm-qqwUA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] Ive just been looking through the 2006 Freelists archive discussion on this subject and wondered if you had any newer thoughts on this David ? -- besters.. Ned === skype:nedabell To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 11:25:08 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB4re-30PVbs-03-CrZ.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:25:08 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB4re-30PVbs-03-CrZ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:31:02 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB4re-30PVbs-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:31:02 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB4re-00041O-0J for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:31:02 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 721A78644A7; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 05:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20714-08; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 05:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0A1838643D5; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 05:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 05:30:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id ABD288644A7 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 05:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20662-01 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 05:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com (smtp5.freeserve.com [193.252.22.152]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 73C388643B2 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 05:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3427.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 239951C00086 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:30:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from rachael.local (unknown [91.111.45.26]) by mwinf3427.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 25A0F1C0008A for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:30:19 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20080624093019154.25A0F1C0008A@mwinf3427.me.freeserve.com From: Mark Fraser To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:30:16 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.9 References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200806241030.16941.freelists@mfraz74.orangehome.co.uk> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 824 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: freelists@mfraz74.orangehome.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=FZ4pHXNLHP2jhhlmWAgA:9 a=ImnP7sLCmzlrZzn4LLcA:7 a=XiW-FSQ52ixVMGVBMTg6sKzzVjAA:4 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] On Tuesday 24 June 2008 09:06:31 Ned Abell wrote: > Ive just been looking through the 2006 Freelists archive > discussion on this subject and wondered if you had any newer > thoughts on this David ? Well, I've tried again with WINE 1.0 and still get the same errors as before. So, I'm not ready to pay for the full version yet. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 12:08:24 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB6GF-1ch000-03-BSy.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:08:24 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB6GF-1ch000-03-BSy; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:00:31 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB6GF-1ch000-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:00:31 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB6GF-0004Za-5p for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:00:31 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 84B31863FFC; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:00:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27401-10; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:00:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1357486407A; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:00:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 06:59:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 999B0863FFC for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 06:59:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27339-02 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 06:59:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.86]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5A3D4863FD0 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 06:59:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KB6Fa-0000Y8-KG for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:59:50 +0000 Message-ID: <1sz3SKEZNNYIFwv$@pilling.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:58:33 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 825 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=d9frsj0YAAAA:8 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=74UF0VHDw8-YPe5bxCUA:9 a=8rFwcGn6XHwYbifNFLgA:7 a=JB_gYLUPCh8CMUFOVEWRnoqbkfUA:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In message <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>, Tim Powys-Lybbe writes >For some years now I have been using OPro to construct PDF files that >consist of a series of pictures (scans) of old documents. By and large >I find that this can only be done successfully by converting the >pictures to (large) sprites. One thing you need to understand is that Ovation Pro can only render and contain in documents certain types of image. For RISC OS they are: Sprite, Draw, JPEG, ArtWorks and EPS. For Windows they are: Sprite, Draw, JPEG, BMP, WMF and EPS. Any other types you have like GIF or TIFF will be converted when they are loaded into the document, using the filter system. The RISC OS version is limited in that it cannot reference image types not on the above list. This limit does not apply to OP on Windows. So if you're on RISC OS don't bother trying to load a TIFF by reference. TIFF is a good format for black and white (1 bit per pixel) images, because it has special compression techniques for that sort of image. JPEG is bad format, because it can't do less than eight bits per pixel and black and white are just the sort of documents where you notice the effects of "lossy" compression. >Second: Load in 1-bit Tiff files > "Unknown or missing variable (internal number 6282)" My TranTIFF+ would be a better choice for loading TIFF files than TransFSI (from which I assume the above error comes). http://www.davidpilling.com/ovationpro/filelib/files/trantiff.zip (and note that not only must this be installed but TransFSI must be told not to load TIFFs). Bottom line, (on RISC OS) you can't load anything not on the above list of file types by reference. >Using the same file as in the previous example I converted them to Gif; >this increased the size from, say, 40 Kbytes or so to 60 Kbytes or so. >The Gif files would load into OPro with no trouble; but saving the OPro >file resulted in a file of 6 Mbytes (yes, Mega). Bottom line, GIF files are translated when loaded (into Sprites). >A totally alternative strategy might be to use another program to >assemble all the images to join them together into one PDF file. But I >have yet to find a program that does this as easily as OPro - and I have >tried Easiwriter. Any suggestions, anyone? I'm not sure what the problem is with using 1bpp sprites. If the files come out of your scanning software as TIFF (say) then when you construct the OP document they will be converted to sprites automatically when loaded. The downside of course is that documents will be large. If you can use OP on Windows then there is another strategy - use TIFF, but by reference. If you're producing the same thing over and over, then you might like to investigate using pictures in mail merge (see the OP manual). I suspect the same limits on referenced images will apply though. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 12:23:26 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB6Wb-31R000-07-BCc.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:23:26 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB6Wb-31R000-07-BCc; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:17:25 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB6Wb-31R000-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:17:25 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB6Wa-00029g-97 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:17:24 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BCF678635A8; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:17:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28930-05; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:17:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4F965863E6F; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:17:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:16:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 60CB786440A for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 04:18:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14593-03 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 04:18:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx6.orcon.net.nz (mx6.orcon.net.nz [219.88.242.56]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CAB5D864403 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 04:18:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Debian-exim by mx6.orcon.net.nz with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KB3jD-0002zt-Jz for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:18:15 +1200 Received: from [60.234.184.59] (helo=mysteriousmrf.my.home) by mx6.orcon.net.nz with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KB3jC-0002zc-VY for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:18:15 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Robert Greenfield To: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:19:58 +1200 Subject: [softwarelist] O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) Content-Type: text/plain X-DSPAM-Check: by mx6.orcon.net.nz on Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:18:15 +1200 X-DSPAM-Result: Innocent X-DSPAM-Processed: Tue Jun 24 20:18:15 2008 X-DSPAM-Confidence: 0.9903 X-DSPAM-Probability: 0.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 826 X-Approved-By: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: monster@caverock.net.nz Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=ey2iPqIFAAAA:8 a=w-HLxcFvAAAA:8 a=an63MGxJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=JkUAS0Q2eOgTg_QPVqYA:9 a=by8oFnoDfqUvBrQRU1YA:7 a=SEm103oaH7fMhWSiBJyQV1LA-OgA:4 a=FoIJIXdLxNwA:10 a=hP9Uo5zeJykA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] On 23 Jun, Torrens (lists) wrote: > Yes, doing a chargeable upgrade now will give him a little cash. But > O-Pro's too good to upgrade much. Any upgrades can only get thinner on > the ground. How would we (and David) like it to be enhanced? What is 'missing' in our opinions? What especially would make the software and our OvPro docs more easily maintainable and usable? At this point I must say that I really enjoy the combination of OvPro/Artworks/TableMate/Draw/Sibelius (and the filer+desktop etc). Creating, designing and composing under RISC OS *is* a joy. Without being any sort of expert, OvPro DDL seems like an excellent thing and I am sure that David P said he would have preferred that OvPro saved in DDL format rather than a binary format. Why not make DDL standard OvPro format and leave the binary one for loading legacy documents? Pros/Cons? DDL looks like an 'open' format. Thinking longer term, can we encourage its use further afield? Could a developer conceivably make a DDL 'transloader/saver' for the oft-mentioned Quark? Any other possible features or improvements? - I'd like a 'screen redraw' button to clear the occasional detritus left by processes. - A biggie this one - I'd like closer interaction between Artworks & OvPro. Sometimes you are in Artworks and you would like (say) the fancier text frames offered by OvPro. Or perhaps you have drawn a line or shape in OvPro and want the fancier line/shape editing offered by Artworks. Imagine if it could be like OLE 'in-situ' in the document. Also, ability to load OvPro documents into Artworks for PDF generation, bitmap export etc. would be great. Could DDL potentially be used for this? > So can we all get together and do something that will get O-Pro noticed? Let schools/teachers know that they can still use their old Impression files even though they now use Windows. Can OvPro be noticed on what-it-does-for-the-price? I have no idea how it compares for features or price with anything on any other platform. Can we make a bit of a list here? Can David and some select developers see if it can be made cross-platform, somewhat like Netsurf (I am not suggesting that getting it to this stage would be quickly done). Cross platform with an open file format seems potentially attractive to me. > And form a O-Pro web ring showing > examples. Why not a central website in the same way that you go to netsurf-browser.org first for netsurf resources/updates, or apple.com for apple stuff? A central repository for OvPro Stationery/Label templates, updates, chat, screenshots seems easier in my mind instead of going around lots of different sites. I guess that even this mailing list is a bit old-hat these days. Funky design folk probably like funkily designed websites... > To anyone already interested in O-Pro, yes some of them are pretty > examples of what O-Pro and Vector can do, e.g. > http://www.4qd.co.uk/instrs/OPro/Pro_150Ser.dpd but it's hardly going to > attract new users. It is one example of what you *can* do though. Imagine this (suitably copyrighted or watermarked) along with other examples on a central website for people to peruse. > Has anyone else any similar resources? I do, but I would have to think carefully about what I wanted to submit for public viewing; some files I will be a bit precious about eg I am currently working on a workbook for my students for www.musictheory.net I think it looks great, has taken a fair bit of thought and work and is currently up to page 26 and counting. Of course quite a bit of what I do is made up in Artworks, so the website would have to mention just how fabulously good Artworks and OvPro are together ;-) regards, -- Robert Greenfield via RISC OS - http://www.webmonster.co.nz/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 12:38:27 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB6dk-3W4000-02-B5T.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:38:27 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB6dk-3W4000-02-B5T; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:24:48 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB6dk-3W4000-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:24:48 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB6dk-0001m2-Du for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:24:48 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D3A77863ADD; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:24:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29343-06; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:24:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 63B1A863AF7; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:24:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:24:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 85C3A863ADD for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29273-02 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 52A03863781 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KB6d6-000Pwg-DV for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:24:08 +0000 Message-ID: <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:22:19 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 827 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=7hBMre_ymI4G4h_Kqw8A:9 a=ks1CTGPdg2cUAyx8IVAA:7 a=g14sct81SxRK8mj16GWyAN4alEQA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In message <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk>, Ned Abell writes >Ive just been looking through the 2006 Freelists archive >discussion on this subject and wondered if you had any newer >thoughts on this David ? You can tell what I'm up against, I installed Linux on an old machine in May 2006 to investigate, I don't think I've turned it on since. Given my dislike for Windows, a move to Linux is possible. Oddly enough one reason why I don't move today, is that I use Ovation Pro and it is not available for Linux. Would I do a Linux version (or a Mac version)... the problem is the amount of time involved. Without trying I don't know for sure, but if like Windows it involves several years full time work then I think it is unlikely. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 12:38:32 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB6fh-3ey000-07-B3W.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:38:32 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB6fh-3ey000-07-B3W; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:26:49 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB6fh-3ey000-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:26:49 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB6fh-0003qL-Ct for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:26:49 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E7AA5864091; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:26:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29600-01; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:26:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7D9E4863EBA; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:26:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:26:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B7395863CDF for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29449-05 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.87]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8519F863AF7 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:26:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) id 1KB6f3-00005U-PC for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:26:10 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:24:48 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: DDL too big for text editors References: <4fb44c76eflists@ww.co.nz> In-Reply-To: <4fb44c76eflists@ww.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 828 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=lIBZ1r-sEucA:10 a=7wu1HnDvHdIA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=qInVw--bF8Mu4uUVu3oA:9 a=L3N-SnLCT01bB7yZ55gA:7 a=sXHws-Go6aW5QOX6Zlwank2HFpEA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In message <4fb44c76eflists@ww.co.nz>, "lists (ww)" writes >I have a 60KB OPro document of 7xA5 pages. > >Saved as OPro = 59MB >Misc,min memory = 54MB >DDL = 75MB > >but I can't open the DDL in Zap, Edit or StrongArm (sp) to check it. > >What do you recommend? >Make two identical files and delete half the pages? Depends how much RAM your machine has, if it is more than 75MB, then free it up by quitting applications etc. If you don't have 75MB, and perhaps it would make sense to do this anyway because 75MB is an awful lot of stuff to look at, I'd reference any images. Presumably the bulk comes from bitmap images. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 12:38:32 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB6pv-4LU000-08-AtI.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:38:32 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB6pv-4LU000-08-AtI; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:37:23 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB6pv-4LU000-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:37:23 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB6pp-0002f4-Ms for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:37:23 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7D0F6863E66; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:36:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30830-07; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:36:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 038CC8645AA; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:35:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id AA456863E66 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:35:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30341-09 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:35:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.86]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 74AF1864247 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:35:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KB6oG-000ATd-Js for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:35:40 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:34:20 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 829 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=4kKp12NNWYV4bY1ohMUA:9 a=2ta4XJAf-4jWmVdsZ6YA:7 a=jtzaWKTH9J-xL4jnk_Yxb1W0NE4A:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In message <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz>, Robert Greenfield writes >How would we (and David) like it to be enhanced? >What is 'missing' in our opinions? One problem is that there is an awful lot that could be added. Ask 20 different people and you'll get 20 different suggestions, all of them reasonable. The problem is that there is no single improvement which would make the program instantly viable. My current disillusion with Windows is due to the realisation that years of work are now needed just to add the basic requirements. Often in the past people have said "add feature A and I will buy it", having added A they then turn around and say "do you seriously expect me to use a program that lacks feature B". >Why not make DDL standard OvPro format and leave the binary one for >loading legacy documents? Because for most users this would make no difference. >- I'd like a 'screen redraw' button to clear the occasional detritus left >by processes. I'd like to see the bugs that cause this fixed. >Let schools/teachers know that they can still use their old Impression >files even though they now use Windows. One interesting aspect of the demise of Acorn was how many documents must have been dumped along with all the computers in schools. This discussion began with me talking about getting someone's book from Impression to Word format. It is hard to believe that no one wrote a Word translator in about 1995. It is perhaps a bit late now. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 13:08:27 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB78R-0lyknw-02-Aam.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:08:27 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB78R-0lyknw-02-Aam; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:56:31 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB78R-0lyknw-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:56:31 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB78Q-0007aP-7D for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:56:30 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BA4078645E6; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:56:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02788-07; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:56:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 52081864779; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:56:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:55:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3A3678646E0 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:55:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02573-09 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:55:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.87]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0454C864709 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:55:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newble.demon.co.uk ([80.176.249.168] helo=iyonix.iyonix) by anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) id 1KB77m-00032X-NR for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:55:50 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: P C Newble To: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:55:41 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb47133f1peter@newble.com> In-Reply-To: <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04e (RISC-OS/5.11) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 830 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: peter@newble.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=QnMsQNrnAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=CQDi67XrNAPL3ks1XF0A:9 a=tyEMsiUqR7zcKnnE6t0A:7 a=vR4dupeWc7Ws0ZI77UOgdRnYQH0A:4 a=a6GPAEu2-fsA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In article <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz>, Robert Greenfield wrote: > I'd like a 'screen redraw' button to clear the occasional > detritus left by processes. Define a key macro containing: {viewrepaint(0,0)} I use F2 for this, because it the otherwise-unused "load" key, which seems appropriate for refreshing the display. --=20 P. C. Newble 10 Heath Close, Polstead Heath, Colchester CO6 5BE, UK Tel. +44(0)1787 210107; Mob. +44(0)7944 816266 http://www.newble.com/ =B7 peter@newble.com =B7 Skype: peter_newble To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpill= ing From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 13:23:32 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB7St-20Xknw-07-AGK.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:23:32 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB7St-20Xknw-07-AGK; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:17:39 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB7St-20Xknw-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:17:39 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB7St-0001az-AU for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:17:39 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A5F1D864464; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:17:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08093-07; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:17:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3625F864222; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:17:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:16:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4D24F864307 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07995-06 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.49]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2EC5E864375 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:16:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080624122207.PSKS16629.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:22:07 +0100 Received: from iyonix.ntlworld.com ([82.1.169.32]) by aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080624122606.BPMJ8797.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@iyonix.ntlworld.com> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:26:06 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Dr Alan Leighton X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:19:03 +0100 Message-ID: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 831 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: alan.leighton2@ntlworld.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=HT2m-uHvRVsYfd5ptIwA:9 a=5cmBy0aq-Xx4pVl_QLcA:7 a=-yyclV0L9XTbqhdxhsC80u85yucA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In message David Pilling wrote: > In message <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz>, Robert Greenfield > writes >>How would we (and David) like it to be enhanced? >>What is 'missing' in our opinions? > One problem is that there is an awful lot that could be added. Ask 20 > different people and you'll get 20 different suggestions, all of them > reasonable. > The problem is that there is no single improvement which would make the= > program instantly viable. > My current disillusion with Windows is due to the realisation that year= s > of work are now needed just to add the basic requirements. > Often in the past people have said "add feature A and I will buy it", > having added A they then turn around and say "do you seriously expect m= e > to use a program that lacks feature B". >>Why not make DDL standard OvPro format and leave the binary one for >>loading legacy documents? > Because for most users this would make no difference. >>- I'd like a 'screen redraw' button to clear the occasional detritus le= ft >>by processes. > I'd like to see the bugs that cause this fixed. >>Let schools/teachers know that they can still use their old Impression >>files even though they now use Windows. > One interesting aspect of the demise of Acorn was how many documents > must have been dumped along with all the computers in schools. This > discussion began with me talking about getting someone's book from > Impression to Word format. It is hard to believe that no one wrote a > Word translator in about 1995. It is perhaps a bit late now. Why don't you produce a list like Martin did for EasiWriter and we=20 could suggest our 2-4 favourites? In my survey 49 licence holders have voted for an =A350 + upgrade so=20 far, Thanks David Alan --=20 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 13:23:32 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB7YN-2Jrknw-02-AAq.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:23:32 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB7YN-2Jrknw-02-AAq; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:23:19 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB7YN-2Jrknw-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:23:19 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB7YM-0000dq-2o for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:23:18 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E77E8864970; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:23:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08661-05; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:23:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 821CF864955; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:23:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:22:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8D30386493F for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:22:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08525-05 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:22:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpout.karoo.kcom.com (smtpout.karoo.kcom.com [212.50.160.34]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3023B864942 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:22:36 -0400 (EDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,696,1204502400"; d="scan'208";a="5620532" Received: from unknown (HELO Master.heleigh.org.uk) ([82.152.145.38]) by smtpout.karoo.kcom.com with ESMTP; 24 Jun 2008 13:21:58 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Martin Devon X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:22:07 +0100 Message-ID: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/4.39) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 832 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: martin.devon@heleigh.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=kDeu5CWx3jrStzL6N3AA:9 a=kM7GvUaet05ezAnFnMAA:7 a=Mcvy2x7RUzNWCdhaIXPzMqudgcwA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In message David Pilling wrote: > In message <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz>, Robert Greenfield > writes >>How would we (and David) like it to be enhanced? >>What is 'missing' in our opinions? Tables. [snip] >>Let schools/teachers know that they can still use their old Impression >>files even though they now use Windows. > One interesting aspect of the demise of Acorn was how many documents > must have been dumped along with all the computers in schools. This > discussion began with me talking about getting someone's book from > Impression to Word format. It is hard to believe that no one wrote a > Word translator in about 1995. It is perhaps a bit late now. Over 100,000 at Stonar alone. -- Martin R. Devon MSc Consulting Engineer, Box, Wilts, UK RISC OS in the Timber Frame Housing Industry To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 13:53:28 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB7yA-3sQknw-06-9l3.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:53:28 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB7yA-3sQknw-06-9l3; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:49:58 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB7yA-3sQknw-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:49:58 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB7yA-0001v3-G8 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:49:58 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 17FB1864635; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:49:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11722-09; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:49:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9D27F86464C; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:49:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:49:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 29BC88646F1 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:54:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02073-10 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:54:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EAD448646D0 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:54:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KB761-000Mm0-4x for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:54:01 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Qercus editor To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:55:07 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb47126b7editor@qercus.com> In-Reply-To: <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/6.10) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 833 X-Approved-By: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: editor@qercus.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=fKTeoBIvAAAA:8 a=dAJjp9O2AAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=UqDO_z2I1DPSLCWlORQA:9 a=O4WDMNi7m1ZPSSnY7B4A:7 a=aVGhva2Fhl3WTgq9NiQxFd1bVnAA:4 a=F25pTJfl8sAA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] On 24 Jun, Robert Greenfield wrote: > Any other possible features or improvements? > - I'd like a 'screen redraw' button to clear the occasional detritus left > by processes. > - A biggie this one - I'd like closer interaction between Artworks & > OvPro. Sometimes you are in Artworks and you would like (say) the fancier > text frames offered by OvPro. Or perhaps you have drawn a line or shape in > OvPro and want the fancier line/shape editing offered by Artworks. > Imagine if it could be like OLE 'in-situ' in the document. > Also, ability to load OvPro documents into Artworks for PDF generation, > bitmap export etc. would be great. Could DDL potentially be used for this? I'd love to be able to save a page (or sample part of a page) from Ovation Pro and load it straight back into a frame in Ovation Pro at reduced size. I'd like to be able to interrogate an Ovation Pro file and see a report of which graphics didn't match a set standard (eg for colours & dpi). I'd give a great deal to be able to directly export an Ovation Pro file as linked or separate pages in pdf form for commercial printing. -- John Cartmell - editor AT qercus.com www.qercus.com www.acornuser.com Qercus/Acorn User: reporting on computers & computing since 1982 Qercus/Acorn User, 30 Finnybank Rd Sale M33 6LR == 0845 006 8822 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 13:53:29 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB819-430knw-03-9i4.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:53:29 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB819-430knw-03-9i4; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:53:03 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB819-430knw-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:53:03 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB819-00025P-88 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:53:03 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C55D18640D5; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:53:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12003-06; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:53:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5A811864704; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:53:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:52:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1BB378640D5 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11913-06 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:52:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpout.karoo.kcom.com (smtpout.karoo.kcom.com [212.50.160.34]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id AC1B08638D5 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:52:23 -0400 (EDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,696,1204502400"; d="scan'208";a="6042444" Received: from unknown (HELO Master.heleigh.org.uk) ([82.152.145.38]) by smtpout.karoo.kcom.com with ESMTP; 24 Jun 2008 13:51:29 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Martin Devon X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:51:59 +0100 Message-ID: <6b5b76b44f.Martin@heleigh.org.uk> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/4.39) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 834 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: martin.devon@heleigh.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=UdsyChDEOup1q9PBekoA:9 a=nK_dejOeMYvGdceO4iEA:7 a=pAt_TIzhEjPC9GbUT9LwcXDckQQA:4 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In message Dr Alan Leighton wrote: [snip] > In my survey 49 licence holders have voted for an =A350 + upgrade so > far, Make that 50 --=20 Martin R. Devon MSc Consulting Engineer, Box, Wilts, UK RISC OS in the Timber Frame Housing Industry To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpill= ing From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 14:08:29 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB86q-4QOknw-02-9cN.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:08:29 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB86q-4QOknw-02-9cN; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:58:56 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB86q-4QOknw-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:58:56 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB86q-0000C1-5x for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:58:56 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 951BE8647AB; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:58:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12533-04; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:58:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2561C8647A3; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:58:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:58:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 34A4786479B for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:58:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12365-02 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:58:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.5]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 03125864799 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:58:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.23.170.146] (helo=anti-virus03-09) by smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1KB86C-0006UR-AW for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:58:16 +0100 Received: from [92.237.124.215] (helo=Iyonix) by asmtp-out1.blueyonder.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1KB86A-00041c-PG for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:58:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John M Ward To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:58:08 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb476eb91john@acornusers.org> In-Reply-To: <6b5b76b44f.Martin@heleigh.org.uk> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <6b5b76b44f.Martin@heleigh.org.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 835 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: john@acornusers.org Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=5JhhAp52AAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=OCM1I1f8APxVgxQYStIA:9 a=gfEYufv5HmfkP9iGMDgA:7 a=NEFFNvrod84RBOFb9bZTUZN-DykA:4 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In article <6b5b76b44f.Martin@heleigh.org.uk>, Martin Devon wrote: > In message > Dr Alan Leighton wrote: > [snip] > > In my survey 49 licence holders have voted for an =A350 + upgrade so > > far, > Make that 50 Now fifty-one and rising... --=20 John Ward in Medway, Kent - using RISC OS since 1987 Now using an Iyonix, an A9home, 2 RiscPCs and Virtual-RPC! Acorn/RISC OS web page: www.john-ward.org.uk/personal/john/computers To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 14:08:34 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB8Ep-0IBVbs-08-9UO.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:08:34 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB8Ep-0IBVbs-08-9UO; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:07:11 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB8Ep-0IBVbs-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:07:11 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB8Ep-0006gM-9G for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:07:11 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B98E08647E6; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13222-08; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 495A886481B; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:06:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5F4D88647E6 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:06:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13127-04 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:06:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.87]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2D3698647DC for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:06:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from newble.demon.co.uk ([80.176.249.168] helo=iyonix.iyonix) by anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) id 1KB8EA-0002hF-N7 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:06:30 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Peter Newble To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:06:27 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb477aec3peter@newble.com> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04e (RISC-OS/5.11) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 836 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: peter@newble.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=KbOeulmRV8Duiyb8PgEA:9 a=JpfLnu7x6bAy03rnUREA:7 a=wkArydXRq4gaNCm5u_q6nlvp0KQA:4 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In message David Pilling wrote: > > One problem is that there is an awful lot that could be > > added. Ask 20 different people and you'll get 20 different > > suggestions, all of them reasonable. > > The problem is that there is no single improvement which > > would make the program instantly viable. In article , Dr Alan Leighton wrote: > Why don't you produce a list like Martin did for EasiWriter > and we could suggest our 2-4 favourites? To me Ovation Pro is 'finished' in the sense that there are no major new features needed to make it a viable program* -- in its present form I can and will continue to use it for the forseeable future. However there are many annoyances, most of them minor and some of them bugs, which always need to be worked-round, and it would be more robust and more efficient in the long term if these could be addressed, together with small additions and alternatives which, as David says, no two people would agree upon. For that, as I have always said, I would happily pay for upgrades -- to me, hundreds of pounds would be worth it for the use I get from the program (so add me to your 49, Alan Leighton!). * One of the strengths of the RISC OS is the interoperability of different programs, without the need for monolithic all-powerful super-applications. As a RISC OS user this influences my approach to computers in general, so I use the RISC OS, OS X and, unfortunately, Windows on a daily basis, and exchange files freely. Thus I would argue against major structural additions to Ovation Pro such as tables (as Martin Devon suggested) because it would be better to consolidate and future-proof what is already there and leave such things to other programs. Ovation Pro isn't MS Word, nor its closer cousins Quark or MS Publisher, and having fewer bells and whistles and superfluous features would always hold it back in the mass market, even though we know it does what it does extremely well (bugs notwithstanding!) --=20 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpill= ing From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 14:38:29 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB8b8-1nTVbs-04-985.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:38:29 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB8b8-1nTVbs-04-985; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:30:14 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB8b8-1nTVbs-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:30:14 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB8b3-0007aL-9F for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:30:14 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B3905864CB0; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:30:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16898-05; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:30:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3DF04864986; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:30:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:29:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 13BE5864CB0 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:29:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 16784-06 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:29:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mk-outboundfilter-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-outboundfilter-4.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.32]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C6F85864CA2 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:29:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Trace: 102193428/mk-outboundfilter-2.mail.uk.tiscali.com/F2S/$ACCEPTED/freedom2Surf-customers/195.137.122.84 X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 195.137.122.84 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: Lists@torrens.org.uk X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEAAaUYEjDiXpU/2dsb2JhbACzBAM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,696,1204502400"; d="scan'208";a="102193428" X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from i-195-137-122-84.freedom2surf.net (HELO lab) ([195.137.122.84]) by smtp.f2s.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 24 Jun 2008 14:29:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Torrens (lists)" To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:05:48 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb4779f5bLists@torrens.org.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 837 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: Lists@torrens.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=vpO1oenGNmu290cV6IwA:9 a=YFXX1jXz-ECeeFmPkfYA:7 a=-H2laVROJo3dMo5z5dSGxUAs4FkA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In article , David Pilling wrote: > >How would we (and David) like it to be enhanced? > >What is 'missing' in our opinions? > One problem is that there is an awful lot that could be added. Ask 20 > different people and you'll get 20 different suggestions, all of them > reasonable. > The problem is that there is no single improvement which would make the > program instantly viable. We can list things we would like to see upgraded/added. You must already have such a list, even if only mental. But only you can estimate how much work each improvement may entail. So if any upgrade is forthcoming - you need to roadmap the shortest route to the greatest destination. Which improvements will be most significant for the least work? And/or give you the most satisfaction? All of which of course requires some good polish for your crystal ball! Problem of course with any software is that to get new users you have to tempt them from what they already use. However easy O-Pro is, that always involves a re-learning curve. Which of course is why people stick with Windoze! Making O-Pro with emulation modes for Techwriter, Imp. Publisher, Word, Quark etc is highly impractical. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 14:53:30 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB8jh-2MrVbs-02-8zW.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:53:30 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB8jh-2MrVbs-02-8zW; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:39:05 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB8jh-2MrVbs-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:39:05 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB8ja-0003TW-3T for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:39:05 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 198FE864D05; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:38:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18270-05; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:38:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A16D5864CEC; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:37:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4484C864D05 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18011-04 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:37:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail18.bluewin.ch (mail18.bluewin.ch [195.186.19.64]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DC359864CC3 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:37:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from iyonix.janvredenburch.bluewin.ch (85.1.235.16) by mail18.bluewin.ch (Bluewin 7.3.121) id 480C934B00E8A363 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:37:42 +0000 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:39:06 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 838 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: janvredenburch@bluewin.ch Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=1zi1p4vfT1s-6NyVDKcA:9 a=ZdMA6RTVPnDTSY6k3yIA:7 a=7QhnCZmW8bm5Yfm0fmfMQ-1T6zQA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In message <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> Robert Greenfield wrote: [snip] > > Any other possible features or improvements? > - I'd like a 'screen redraw' button to clear the occasional detritus left > by processes. Ctrl Q. Works on RiscOS and Win version. [snip the rest] -- Greetings, JohnvV To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 14:53:35 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB8sn-2ydVbs-06-8qQ.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:53:35 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB8sn-2ydVbs-06-8qQ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:48:29 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB8sn-2ydVbs-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:48:29 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB8sk-000121-8X for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:48:29 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9F076864DA2; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:48:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19688-07-3; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:48:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6D7A0864DB9; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:48:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:47:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CFE27864809 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:47:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19559-03 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:47:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.48]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DF7F28647FF for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:47:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080624135224.KRMU7070.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:52:24 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.100] (really [82.28.88.234]) by aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080624134748.PFWT18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[192.168.0.100]> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:47:48 +0100 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:47:37 +0100 From: Ray Dawson To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> Mail-Followup-To: davidpilling@freelists.org X-Organization: MagRay User-Agent: Gemini/2.29l (Qt/3.3.8) (Windows-Vista) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 839 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: ray@raydawson.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=EmdHfvP2EMqcUKQyllYA:9 a=i23npn2CoC7thXUlKdIA:7 a=rKmSYJIiDQC_6034TNPGdfkXO9cA:4 a=6L240moY9qwA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch wrote: > In message <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> > Robert Greenfield wrote: > > > [snip] > > > > > > Any other possible features or improvements? > > - I'd like a 'screen redraw' button to clear the occasional detritus > > left by processes. > > Ctrl Q. Works on RiscOS and Win version. That does a letter swap on my RISC OS version. Put the cursor between two characters and Ctrl-Q swaps them. I /think/ it's as it came. Cheers, Ray D To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 14:53:35 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB8uZ-36DVbs-04-8oe.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:53:35 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB8uZ-36DVbs-04-8oe; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:50:19 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB8uZ-36DVbs-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:50:19 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB8uV-0002xO-H0 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:50:19 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1B18E864D2F; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:50:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20256-09; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:50:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A0FCE86476F; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:50:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:49:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1CF38864DC7 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:49:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19870-05 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:49:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail14.bluewin.ch (mail14.bluewin.ch [195.186.19.62]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 95DA6864DBA for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:49:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from iyonix.janvredenburch.bluewin.ch (85.1.235.16) by mail14.bluewin.ch (Bluewin 7.3.121) id 480C926601326C6C for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:49:19 +0000 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:50:46 +0200 Message-ID: <6bbd7bb44f.janvred@janvredenburch.bluewin.ch> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <6b5b76b44f.Martin@heleigh.org.uk> <4fb476eb91john@acornusers.org> In-Reply-To: <4fb476eb91john@acornusers.org> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 840 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: janvredenburch@bluewin.ch Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=9uXE3t9t0u5fjY6nhdAA:9 a=TXI7FC-6ide3_E5zNi0A:7 a=PPEdnQdfQtclkTG3LBNq5R9Yp6UA:4 a=qjnnYxWtun0A:10 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In message <4fb476eb91john@acornusers.org> John M Ward wrote: > In article <6b5b76b44f.Martin@heleigh.org.uk>, > Martin Devon wrote: >> In message >> Dr Alan Leighton wrote: >> [snip] >>> In my survey 49 licence holders have voted for an =A350 + upgrade so= >>> far, >> Make that 50 > Now fifty-one and rising... And one more... --=20 Greetings, JohnvV To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 15:08:31 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB9BZ-4ETVbs-01-8Xe.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:08:31 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB9BZ-4ETVbs-01-8Xe; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:07:53 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB9BZ-4ETVbs-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:07:53 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB9BX-000231-50 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:07:53 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C32D9864E64; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:07:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22228-01; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:07:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 59BEA864E7B; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:07:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:06:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 62586864E58 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:06:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21858-08 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:06:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail18.bluewin.ch (mail18.bluewin.ch [195.186.19.64]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2A4A2864E54 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:06:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from iyonix.janvredenburch.bluewin.ch (85.1.235.16) by mail18.bluewin.ch (Bluewin 7.3.121) id 480C934B00E8BF49 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:06:51 +0000 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future To: davidpilling@freelists.org Mail-Followup-To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:08:18 +0200 Message-ID: <2f587db44f.janvred@janvredenburch.bluewin.ch> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 841 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: janvredenburch@bluewin.ch Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=c1BfrpP3q1Bnki9lllwA:9 a=LHlRjmXOTAPmkvgk-MwA:7 a=N62J_Isnnqerc4Q9aljXb8PwRV8A:4 a=bzKVVdKtbjEA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In message Ray Dawson wrote: > Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch wrote: >> In message <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> >> Robert Greenfield wrote: >> >> >> [snip] >> >>> >> >>> Any other possible features or improvements? >>> - I'd like a 'screen redraw' button to clear the occasional detritus >>> left by processes. >> >> Ctrl Q. Works on RiscOS and Win version. > That does a letter swap on my RISC OS version. Put the cursor between two > characters and Ctrl-Q swaps them. > I /think/ it's as it came. ??? I need CS_Q for character swap which is I believe hardwired in the program. (see page 270 of the RiscOS manual) If I recall correctly C_Q was proposed later, i.e. after OvationPro 2.60 appeared, by David Pilling. I have it in the !Macros file, defined as stated by P.C. Newbie > Cheers, > Ray D > To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling -- Greetings, JohnvV To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 15:53:37 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB9q7-2NpGPo-07-GPc.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:53:37 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB9q7-2NpGPo-07-GPc; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:49:47 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB9q7-2NpGPo-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:49:47 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB9q5-0004x8-5o for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:49:47 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6BB818647DE; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:49:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27910-03; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:49:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E5B698643B1; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:49:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:49:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id ADA62864693 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:49:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27793-08 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:49:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.47]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 38EA086436B for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:49:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080624145330.GNEJ28496.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:53:30 +0100 Received: from iyonix.ntlworld.com ([82.1.169.32]) by aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080624144908.QJNI18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@iyonix.ntlworld.com> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:49:08 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Dr Alan Leighton X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:18:05 +0100 Message-ID: <5d3d7eb44f.alan@ntlworld.com> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 842 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: alan.leighton2@ntlworld.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=uQ9u5fF5f4CZ9jYo1zIA:9 a=rA0xCDemVwWb1NEpg9gA:7 a=wDNZJJ1JqUSkLnL762XtVvT45gIA:4 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In message Dr Alan Leighton wrote: > In message > David Pilling wrote: >> In message <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz>, Robert Greenfield >> writes >>>How would we (and David) like it to be enhanced? >>>What is 'missing' in our opinions? >> One problem is that there is an awful lot that could be added. Ask 20 >> different people and you'll get 20 different suggestions, all of them >> reasonable. >> The problem is that there is no single improvement which would make th= e >> program instantly viable. >> My current disillusion with Windows is due to the realisation that yea= rs >> of work are now needed just to add the basic requirements. >> Often in the past people have said "add feature A and I will buy it", >> having added A they then turn around and say "do you seriously expect = me >> to use a program that lacks feature B". >>>Why not make DDL standard OvPro format and leave the binary one for >>>loading legacy documents? >> Because for most users this would make no difference. >>>- I'd like a 'screen redraw' button to clear the occasional detritus l= eft >>>by processes. >> I'd like to see the bugs that cause this fixed. >>>Let schools/teachers know that they can still use their old Impression= >>>files even though they now use Windows. >> One interesting aspect of the demise of Acorn was how many documents >> must have been dumped along with all the computers in schools. This >> discussion began with me talking about getting someone's book from >> Impression to Word format. It is hard to believe that no one wrote a >> Word translator in about 1995. It is perhaps a bit late now. > Why don't you produce a list like Martin did for EasiWriter and we > could suggest our 2-4 favourites? > In my survey 49 licence holders have voted for an =A350 + upgrade so > far, Now we have 53 and rising! Yessss Alan --=20 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 15:53:37 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KB9tP-2dKGPo-04-GMK.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:53:37 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KB9tP-2dKGPo-04-GMK; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:53:11 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KB9tP-2dKGPo-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:53:11 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KB9tL-0004xg-CA for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:53:11 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D4F1C86454E; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:53:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28378-10; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:53:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6DE05864A57; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:53:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:52:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BA7DF86454E for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:52:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28232-07 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:52:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out5.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out5.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.8]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 874568647FC for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:52:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.23.170.141] (helo=anti-virus02-08) by smtp-out5.blueyonder.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1KB9sh-00060n-Q1 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:52:27 +0100 Received: from [82.43.91.100] (helo=Shuttle) by asmtp-out3.blueyonder.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1KB9se-0008T0-Es for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:52:24 +0100 Message-ID: <014c01c8d609$ea903c30$aa00a8c0@Shuttle> From: "Bruce Goatly" To: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <5d3d7eb44f.alan@ntlworld.com> Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:52:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 843 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: bruce@goatly.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=9MzoQ3q7Ris1ea3rEvcA:9 a=jdMn7dUGDJhbFYE7BEcA:7 a=TalYE8iDaCN9SldnLzPQl17EuAoA:4 a=nrUGvYwLnKIA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] Dr Alan Leighton wrote: > Now we have 53 and rising! And you can count me in too. Bruce To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 16:23:33 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBAGs-1MC000-06-Fyr.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:23:33 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBAGs-1MC000-06-Fyr; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:17:26 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBAGs-1MC000-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:17:26 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBAGr-0004GI-RB for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:17:26 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3B555863E63; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:17:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31435-06; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:17:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C61FB8642F6; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:17:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:16:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 46EA8863E63 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:16:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31292-04 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:16:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.bordernet.com.au (mail.bordernet.com.au [203.221.25.2]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4B49D863CDF for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:16:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 19768 invoked by uid 89); 24 Jun 2008 15:16:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO Annascue.farmstay.proxy.omninet.net.au) (farmstay@203.123.117.198) by mail.bordernet.com.au with ESMTPA; 24 Jun 2008 15:16:38 -0000 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Ross McGuinness X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:23:00 +0800 Message-ID: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <5d3d7eb44f.alan@ntlworld.com> <014c01c8d609$ea903c30$aa00a8c0@Shuttle> In-Reply-To: <014c01c8d609$ea903c30$aa00a8c0@Shuttle> X-Organization: Cinnamon Coloureds Farmstay User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 844 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: farmstay@denmarkwa.com.au Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=U98zaT_TAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=l-IhCdbPrkImlFPrIsgA:9 a=3eygdpJEGm7YkzlnZH8A:7 a=4nxbVcTYY5F0Czec_pAUxOoQuIkA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In message <014c01c8d609$ea903c30$aa00a8c0@Shuttle> "Bruce Goatly" wrote: > Dr Alan Leighton wrote: >> Now we have 53 and rising! > And you can count me in too. For an easier indexing feature I'd happily pay =A350 - one where I=20 select the word and then choose to add to the index. Even to have to=20 then apply a hierarchy manually would be better than I do currently.=20 The currently available options for indexing are beyond me I'm ashamed=20 to say! --=20 Ross and Bev McGuinness, Cinnamon Coloureds Farmstay 1800 South Coast Hwy DENMARK WA 6333 Tel:+61 8 9848 1781 Fax:+61 8 9848 1231 Web: http://www.denmarkwa.com.au/cc/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpill= ing From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 16:38:34 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBAWC-2RX000-02-FjX.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:38:34 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBAWC-2RX000-02-FjX; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:33:16 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBAWC-2RX000-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:33:16 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBAWB-0001eq-8h for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:33:16 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id AADBE864924; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:33:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00488-06; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:33:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3B2C8864712; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:33:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:32:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0EE82864924 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:32:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00373-10 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:32:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cpsmtpo-eml01.kpnxchange.com (cpsmtpo-eml01.kpnxchange.com [213.75.38.150]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B372E864922 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:32:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cpsmtp-eml108.kpnxchange.com ([213.75.84.108]) by cpsmtpo-eml01.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:32:34 +0200 Received: from iyonix.delink.speed.planet.nl ([81.204.75.73]) by cpsmtp-eml108.kpnxchange.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:32:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Sprangers To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:33:24 +0200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb485228ePaul@sprie.nl> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <5d3d7eb44f.alan@ntlworld.com> <014c01c8d609$ea903c30$aa00a8c0@Shuttle> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jun 2008 15:32:33.0877 (UTC) FILETIME=[85DD1050:01C8D60F] X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 845 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: Paul@sprie.nl Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=Un2z-PWpNhpmq54WBv8A:9 a=kgiiwvoJgIOAoLNGZEEA:7 a=UCrKeWgmAKjFRr4aAuvK29_c72YA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In article , Ross McGuinness wrote: > For an easier indexing feature I'd happily pay =A350 - one where I=20 > select the word and then choose to add to the index. Even to have to=20 > then apply a hierarchy manually would be better than I do currently.=20 I second that wholeheartedly. Kind regards, Paul Sprangers To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpill= ing From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 17:08:42 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBB35-4bD000-02-FCe.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:08:42 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBB35-4bD000-02-FCe; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:07:15 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBB35-4bD000-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:07:15 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBB34-0000PD-KZ for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:07:15 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1563B864AC9; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:07:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04459-10; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:07:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 98FC9864A60; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:07:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:06:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 712D7864AC9 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:06:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04339-03 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:06:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relay.freeuk.net (relay.freeuk.net [212.126.144.54]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3FDDC864AC3 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from du-003-0131.freeuk.com ([212.126.145.131] helo=bbailey.freeuk.com.) by relay.freeuk.net with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1KBB2L-000E2R-9F for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:06:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Brian Bailey To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:04:55 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb4880549bbailey@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 846 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: bbailey@argonet.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=rCL1YMNWTsqiOy9ctLYA:9 a=cpOoSzK81e7W7VIuem0A:7 a=PXJCzZRjZlWI7lVWdOpb4VUqMHkA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In article , David Pilling wrote: [snip] > One interesting aspect of the demise of Acorn was how many documents > must have been dumped along with all the computers in schools. This > discussion began with me talking about getting someone's book from > Impression to Word format. It is hard to believe that no one wrote a > Word translator in about 1995. It is perhaps a bit late now. Whilst I should be /very glad/ to contribute my =A3sd to an update what you say here is highly relevant. I suspect that a project I am currently working on will shortly require submissions in either QuarkXpress or InDesign. How does one deal with that? I haven't yet got OvatPW and how far would I get with file transfer to an alien file format anyway from RISC OS in this context? Equally, I am unhappy at the suggestion of a particular commercial approach/model for an update, which may not work at all. No doubt David already knows what does or does not work for him in that regard. Perhaps he might wish to share his views with us on this aspect of OvatPro development to move the discussion forward. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 17:23:36 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBB7M-0DMknw-04-F8N.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:23:36 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBB7M-0DMknw-04-F8N; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:11:40 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBB7M-0DMknw-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:11:40 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBB7I-00030I-7F for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:11:40 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B0346864AF5; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:11:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04956-08; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:11:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 298B1864B37; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:11:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:10:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5C1E2864AF5 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:10:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04893-05 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:10:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.47]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A3B30863E63 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:10:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080624161515.IKYS28496.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:15:15 +0100 Received: from iyonix.ntlworld.com ([82.1.169.32]) by aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080624161400.VTSH29365.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@iyonix.ntlworld.com> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:14:00 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Dr Alan Leighton X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:13:28 +0100 Message-ID: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <5d3d7eb44f.alan@ntlworld.com> <014c01c8d609$ea903c30$aa00a8c0@Shuttle> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 847 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: alan.leighton2@ntlworld.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=egoxPYvgRRhUH0bVbJMA:9 a=6OCAKg6Vs8lAnRXPyDIA:7 a=v74Jwy6VfIrTdd_Jdw0A6jAlPfAA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In message Ross McGuinness wrote: > In message <014c01c8d609$ea903c30$aa00a8c0@Shuttle> > "Bruce Goatly" wrote: >> Dr Alan Leighton wrote: >>> Now we have 53 and rising! >> And you can count me in too. > For an easier indexing feature I'd happily pay =A350 - one where I > select the word and then choose to add to the index. Even to have to > then apply a hierarchy manually would be better than I do currently. > The currently available options for indexing are beyond me I'm ashamed > to say! Well 57 have said it is a good idea and only two are unhappy. As for=20 the indexing do let me know if you crack it as it is beyond me too.=20 Having said that most things in the computer world are. 8-( Blessings Alan --=20 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 17:38:36 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBBP8-1JIknw-07-Eqb.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:38:36 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBBP8-1JIknw-07-Eqb; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:30:02 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBBP8-1JIknw-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:30:02 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBBP7-0002tg-Ow for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:30:02 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3CD4F8641D7; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07873-04-2; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C75B0864390; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:30:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:29:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 157E28641D7 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:29:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07708-06 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:29:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.48]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9BC2C86419F for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:29:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080624163404.OULQ7070.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:34:04 +0100 Received: from [192.168.2.84] (really [86.14.45.210]) by aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080624163909.HCUM8797.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[192.168.2.84]> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:39:09 +0100 Message-ID: <486120FD.8080705@ntlworld.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:29:49 +0100 From: Ian A Dunn User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <5d3d7eb44f.alan@ntlworld.com> <014c01c8d609$ea903c30$aa00a8c0@Shuttle> In-Reply-To: <014c01c8d609$ea903c30$aa00a8c0@Shuttle> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 848 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: i.dunn2@ntlworld.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=zvovqRVMju1rMRi1MPsA:9 a=2qXsJ_uBNfs3blpc4FMA:7 a=bz_WC5IEOWywVEu7LUTxT-8WTUsA:4 a=xfNXT5P86egA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] Bruce Goatly wrote: > Dr Alan Leighton wrote: > >> Now we have 53 and rising! > > And you can count me in too. > > Bruce I see I am a bit late to be number 42 ; always thought that was a good number [ except days but I am not going there ! ]. But I'll settle for being in the 50's Ian To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 17:53:36 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBBhY-2Vjknw-07-EYB.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:53:36 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBBhY-2Vjknw-07-EYB; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:49:04 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBBhY-2Vjknw-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:49:04 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBBhY-00010S-4Q for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:49:04 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 997C58645E2; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10092-06; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 217D3863B1C; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:48:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:48:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2EE338645E2 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:48:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09970-06 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:48:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D7A99864344 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:48:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panther (backup.vigay.com [82.163.120.21]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m5OGlqeT023858 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:47:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Vigay To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:48:08 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb48bfa45lists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: <4fb4779f5bLists@torrens.org.uk> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4779f5bLists@torrens.org.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 X-No-Archive: yes Sensitivity: Private Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 849 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists-nospam@vigay.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=0xqhCTqKAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=uwkmy3tcNTLnCxoP7zAA:9 a=Hfj2boAOxeJLlez67rcA:7 a=UY655rslKBUerUkvPYG107dpv8wA:4 a=4SztSTlPBk4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In a dim and distant universe <4fb4779f5bLists@torrens.org.uk>, Torrens (lists) enlightened us thusly: > We can list things we would like to see upgraded/added. > You must already have such a list, even if only mental. > But only you can estimate how much work each improvement may entail. Inded, and this is often difficult to judge until you actually start trying to implement a particular feature. Speaking as a programmer myself, something which initially seems daunting can turn out to be a lot easier than you thought, whereas something which you think, "Oh that will be a five minute job. I'll do that later" can turn out to be horribly complex and take days. Prime example was my own WebGallery application where I kept receiving requests to add EXIF thumbnail support to image reading, to speed up the time taken to display thumbnails. I was putting this off for months, thinking how horribly complicated it was going to be, and how complicated a lot of the EXIF/JPEG format documentation was. I then bit the bullet and sat down thinking I was going to finally implement it. In the end, it was a lot easier than I thought and took less than 30 minutes coding in the end. Then I came to add some silly feature, and it had me pulling my hair out for a couple of days until I cracked it. The moral of this story is that often there's no way to tell how long something will take to implement until you actually come to do it, which of course you may be putting off for the wrong or incorrect reasons. Paul Vigay Editor, www.RISCOS.org -- Using, programming and promoting RISC OS - the most productive computer system in the world. Check it out now, and change your view of computers!! To reply/email, visit http://www.riscos.org/feedback/ 51 things to do in a lift.... 19. Give religious tracts to each passenger. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 18:08:37 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBBvy-3JRknw-02-EJl.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:08:37 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBBvy-3JRknw-02-EJl; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:03:58 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBBvy-3JRknw-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:03:58 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBBvy-00048w-0c for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:03:58 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9DF0E864A3F; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:03:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11554-01; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:03:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 34E48864A24; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:03:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:03:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1D5858649FA for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:03:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11331-06 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:03:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B34328649E3 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:03:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panther (backup.vigay.com [82.163.120.21]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m5OH2sB8024001 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:02:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Vigay To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:49:20 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb48c166clists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 X-No-Archive: yes Sensitivity: Private Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 850 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists-nospam@vigay.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=0xqhCTqKAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=yWqFhLFK8m2A9DTM0wQA:9 a=J63h1TG_SefBWAxRPMAA:7 a=qRvfxtMYCj5XyDP5OrCxR40rUPIA:4 a=4SztSTlPBk4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In a dim and distant universe , Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch enlightened us thusly: > > - I'd like a 'screen redraw' button to clear the occasional detritus > > left by processes. > Ctrl Q. Works on RiscOS and Win version. Erm, what's wrong with f12, return? ;-) Paul Vigay Editor, www.RISCOS.org -- Using, programming and promoting RISC OS - the most productive computer system in the world. Check it out now, and change your view of computers!! To reply/email, visit http://www.riscos.org/feedback/ Always try to be modest and be proud of it! To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 18:23:37 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBC99-3zdknw-04-E6a.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:23:37 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBC99-3zdknw-04-E6a; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:17:35 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBC99-3zdknw-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:17:35 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBC97-0000rP-FL for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:17:35 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EFA528641C4; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:17:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13121-07; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:17:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 838D286398F; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:17:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:16:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9B8C18643E8 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:16:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12947-06 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:16:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.86]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C1CC88641C7 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:16:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from charleshope.demon.co.uk ([80.177.174.79] helo=iyonix) by anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KBC8S-000N95-Jx for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:16:52 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: charles To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:16:44 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb48e98cdcharles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb48c166clists-nospam@vigay.com> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb48c166clists-nospam@vigay.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 851 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=GTTAGX74dQVSVzi7ooUA:9 a=8wO1JA0brMwoVoR0oqsA:7 a=nx-3v7tDE1C9Rw-06gucEHWHJ-UA:4 a=MVlnOHnAQ0oA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In article <4fb48c166clists-nospam@vigay.com>, Paul Vigay wrote: > In a dim and distant universe > , > Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch enlightened us > thusly: > > > - I'd like a 'screen redraw' button to clear the occasional detritus > > > left by processes. > > Ctrl Q. Works on RiscOS and Win version. > Erm, what's wrong with f12, return? ;-) I just pull the bottom of the screen up until it covers the problem and then pull it down again - all with the mouse. -- >From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey" Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 18:23:37 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBCA4-41aknw-03-E5f.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:23:37 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBCA4-41aknw-03-E5f; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:18:32 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBCA4-41aknw-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:18:32 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBCA3-0002qZ-LE for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:18:32 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2F7B8864198; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:18:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13212-09; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:18:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B194986415E; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:18:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:17:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4D6C5864327 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:17:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13135-04 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:17:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out4.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out4.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.7]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1653B8642B2 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:17:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.23.170.145] (helo=anti-virus03-08) by smtp-out4.blueyonder.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1KBC9P-0003kH-2K for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:17:51 +0100 Received: from [92.235.163.76] (helo=[192.168.1.13]) by asmtp-out4.blueyonder.co.uk with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1KBC9O-0001O4-NN for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:17:50 +0100 Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:47:55 +0100 From: Jeremy Nicoll - freelists To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: DDL too big for text editors Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4fb44c76eflists@ww.co.nz> References: <4fb44c76eflists@ww.co.nz> Mail-Followup-To: davidpilling@freelists.org User-Agent: Gemini/2.29i (Qt/3.3.8) (Windows-XP) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 852 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: jn.flists.73@wingsandbeaks.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=lIBZ1r-sEucA:10 a=7wu1HnDvHdIA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=6nOFYA1UTxlObnVyjmcA:9 a=A2g-doij9YZplGdsrlsA:7 a=yZrVhzTqguJL14xrLOmhUedDaT4A:4 a=LCuyevoBGlwA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] "lists (ww)" wrote: > I have a 60KB OPro document of 7xA5 pages. I don't understand how that "60KB" figure relates to what comes next. -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jun 24 18:38:38 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBCRV-09zVbs-07-DoE.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:38:38 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBCRV-09zVbs-07-DoE; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:36:33 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBCRV-09zVbs-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:36:33 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBCRU-0004w6-VA for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:36:33 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6798F8648B3; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:36:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14767-02; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:36:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 01B168648D5; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:35:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0C2138648B3 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14678-04 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:35:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.86]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CFF6D8645F3 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:35:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from charleshope.demon.co.uk ([80.177.174.79] helo=iyonix) by anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KBCQr-0000VE-JQ for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:35:53 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: charles To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:35:48 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb4905785charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb48e98cdcharles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb48c166clists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb48e98cdcharles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 853 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=ISp9yUPrFzxAgqd1YV4A:9 a=3tS2-cX2n_YZkrOeV9wA:7 a=-XyTojLpgN_DeSU0cOqQn_svEgwA:4 a=MVlnOHnAQ0oA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In article <4fb48e98cdcharles@charleshope.demon.co.uk>, charles wrote: > In article <4fb48c166clists-nospam@vigay.com>, > Paul Vigay wrote: > > In a dim and distant universe > > , > > Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch enlightened us > > thusly: > > > > - I'd like a 'screen redraw' button to clear the occasional detritus > > > > left by processes. > > > Ctrl Q. Works on RiscOS and Win version. > > Erm, what's wrong with f12, return? ;-) > I just pull the bottom of the screen up until it covers the problem and > then pull it down again - all with the mouse. I should have written 'frame' not 'screen'. -- >From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey" Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 11:41:22 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBFzp-1Oi000-02-AFu.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:41:22 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBFzp-1Oi000-02-AFu; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 21:24:13 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBFzp-1Oi000-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 21:24:13 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBFzp-0002GK-Iq for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 21:24:13 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 06AC686371B; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:24:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07689-08; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:24:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 723408635AB; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:24:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:23:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D49F886386C for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:23:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07615-04 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:23:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9F67E86389E for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:23:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KBFzA-0000Pn-BA for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 21:23:32 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:21:42 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4880549bbailey@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb4880549bbailey@argonet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 854 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=xCKg_k8CYUEZwhTLEsgA:9 a=wVOw8AUA8fXcB3zILkIA:7 a=oS_THY8UjKwxuDCxynHqB4gE90wA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In message <4fb4880549bbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Bailey writes >approach/model for an update, which may not work at all. No doubt David >already knows what does or does not work for him in that regard. Perhaps >he might wish to share his views with us on this aspect of OvatPro >development to move the discussion forward. This discussion began with me saying that Ovation Pro had, over 20 years, proved to be a failure and I wanted to move on to something else - and the one thing I would not do again is work on RISC OS. We are now talking about an upgrade for the RISC OS version 8-) I know there are people who use Ovation Pro, I appreciate your support over the years. You're the users, it is fair to point out my current feelings. We can go on as for the last two years - in maintenance mode, keeping the program working as RISC OS and Windows evolve. Or someone can come up with a better idea. A RISC OS upgrade is not a better idea... -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 11:41:34 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBGpz-35G000-07-9Pk.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:41:34 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBGpz-35G000-07-9Pk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:18:07 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBGpz-35G000-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:18:07 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBGpz-0004IW-6K for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:18:07 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A28B886388F; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:18:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11217-02; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:18:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3A489863A03; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:18:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:17:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5789F86388F for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11130-03 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp5.clear.net.nz (smtp5.clear.net.nz [203.97.33.68]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0B62E863820 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Iyonix (121-72-171-171.dsl.telstraclear.net [121.72.171.171]) by smtp5.clear.net.nz (CLEAR Net Mail) with ESMTP id <0K2Z001GLN7W6G30@smtp5.clear.net.nz> for davidpilling@freelists.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:16:46 +1200 (NZST) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:16:41 +1200 From: "lists (ww)" Subject: [softwarelist] Re: DDL too big for text editors In-reply-to: <545d59b44f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> To: davidpilling@freelists.org Message-id: <4fb4aa0ee4lists@ww.co.nz> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain References: <4fb44c76eflists@ww.co.nz> <545d59b44f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.4 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 855 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists@ww.co.nz Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=lIBZ1r-sEucA:10 a=7wu1HnDvHdIA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=_-ExcZEzzG7hJRTVNJwA:9 a=4xzBI3lofTGfIyOnmnIA:7 a=6Z-bl6gfVx3ETeg9LLFemLo9MZkA:4 a=fl4ZfBcLCrEA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] On 24 Jun, Martin Wuerthner wrote: > In message <4fb44c76eflists@ww.co.nz> > "lists (ww)" wrote: > > I can't open the DDL in Zap, Edit or StrongArm (sp) to check it. > Presuming you have more than 75MB of memory free, you should be able > to edit this file in any of the above editors. If you cannot, then > at a guess, you are running Aemulor, which limits the amount of > memory each application. Without Aemulor running it should work. > Martin Yes I have 400+mb free, 4mb 'next'. I quit Aemulor and the module and was able to open the 75mb DDL file. Thank you. Brian To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 11:41:35 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBGsz-3BB000-06-9Mk.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:41:35 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBGsz-3BB000-06-9Mk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:21:13 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBGsz-3BB000-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:21:13 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBGsy-0004fU-Lb for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:21:13 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 35D4A863BBA; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11453-06; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:21:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BBF61863A19; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:21:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:20:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 324EF863BBA for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:20:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11338-01 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:20:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relay.freeuk.net (relay.freeuk.net [212.126.144.54]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D8934863CCE for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:20:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from du-003-0167.freeuk.com ([212.126.145.167] helo=bbailey.freeuk.com.) by relay.freeuk.net with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1KBGsJ-000LKW-81 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:20:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Brian Bailey To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:19:08 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb4aa47f8bbailey@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4880549bbailey@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 856 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: bbailey@argonet.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=JhRy_WodmM4PIM3uvdsA:9 a=Hthdd_Q-OPqar3i0jB8A:7 a=aEwptjkzhLWFVaxBjnDa6-_0ZYwA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In article , David Pilling wrote: > In message <4fb4880549bbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Bailey > writes > >approach/model for an update, which may not work at all. No doubt David > >already knows what does or does not work for him in that regard. Perhaps > >he might wish to share his views with us on this aspect of OvatPro > >development to move the discussion forward. > This discussion began with me saying that Ovation Pro had, over 20 > years, proved to be a failure and I wanted to move on to something else > - and the one thing I would not do again is work on RISC OS. > We are now talking about an upgrade for the RISC OS version 8-) > I know there are people who use Ovation Pro, I appreciate your support > over the years. > You're the users, it is fair to point out my current feelings. We can go > on as for the last two years - in maintenance mode, keeping the program > working as RISC OS and Windows evolve. Or someone can come up with a > better idea. > A RISC OS upgrade is not a better idea... In essence I am recognising that is the case. Unwilling, as I am, I am being forced to go down the WinXp route because that is the reality of the situation. =A350 buys you no more than 1 hours time of a main car agent's workshop mechanic and usually not very good value at that. Surely, David's time is worth much more than that. Speaking personally, I can see a very real need to export OvatProW files in QuarkXpress or InDesign format. Now, is that possible, is that a reality that David could address and extend OvatProW usefulness and make it much more flexible? I am still willing to commit my =A3sd in spite of David's strictures. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 11:41:35 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBH1X-3Pp000-01-9EC.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:41:35 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBH1X-3Pp000-01-9EC; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:30:03 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBH1X-3Pp000-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:30:03 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBH1W-0007EP-IQ for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 22:30:02 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 198D3863A19; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:30:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12219-08; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9D1EF863F03; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:29:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C7BCA863BBA for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:29:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12138-04 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:29:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out5.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out5.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.8]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 933DB86325C for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 18:29:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.23.170.141] (helo=anti-virus02-08) by smtp-out5.blueyonder.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1KBH0s-0004yE-G7 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:29:22 +0100 Received: from [92.237.124.215] (helo=Iyonix) by asmtp-out5.blueyonder.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1KBH0r-0005Ga-9w for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:29:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John M Ward To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:29:01 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb4ab2fb5john@acornusers.org> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4880549bbailey@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 857 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: john@acornusers.org Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=5JhhAp52AAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=qNRJ5AqRVriUoPiZtpQA:9 a=qlVffEg1bIVTLP76xBcA:7 a=MsLldgUhdueADqL9cTuNQuCoVwQA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In article , David Pilling wrote: > In message <4fb4880549bbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Bailey > writes > >approach/model for an update, which may not work at all. No doubt > >David already knows what does or does not work for him in that > >regard. Perhaps he might wish to share his views with us on this > >aspect of OvatPro development to move the discussion forward. > This discussion began with me saying that Ovation Pro had, over 20 > years, proved to be a failure and I wanted to move on to something > else - and the one thing I would not do again is work on RISC OS. In that case, someone else will need to take over, rather than just abandon OvPro (and pehaps some of the other programs as well). > We are now talking about an upgrade for the RISC OS version 8-) It was worth showing that there is a decent level of support for that, in case it was an option, one way or another... > I know there are people who use Ovation Pro, I appreciate your > support over the years. > > You're the users, it is fair to point out my current feelings. We can > go on as for the last two years - in maintenance mode, keeping the > program working as RISC OS and Windows evolve. Or someone can > come up with a better idea. I'm thinking... > A RISC OS upgrade is not a better idea... Well, there has to be a way -- we aren't easily defeated in this market. -- John Ward in Medway, Kent - using RISC OS since 1987 Now using an Iyonix, an A9home, 2 RiscPCs and Virtual-RPC! Acorn/RISC OS web page: www.john-ward.org.uk/personal/john/computers To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 11:41:41 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBI3h-0NLknw-06-GiY.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:41:41 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBI3h-0NLknw-06-GiY; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:36:21 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBI3h-0NLknw-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:36:21 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBI3g-0004Zr-VN for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:36:21 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 688C5864261; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17952-01; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 288D38640C2; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:36:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:35:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 080D286420C for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:35:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17718-03 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:35:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ipmail05.adl2.internode.on.net (ipmail05.adl2.internode.on.net [203.16.214.145]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5BD698641FC for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:35:40 -0400 (EDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvMAAMAhYUh5LAgZ/2dsb2JhbAAIsxw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,698,1204464600"; d="scan'208";a="144045378" Received: from ppp121-44-8-25.lns10.syd7.internode.on.net (HELO [192.168.1.102]) ([121.44.8.25]) by ipmail05.adl2.internode.on.net with ESMTP; 25 Jun 2008 09:05:24 +0930 Message-ID: <486184C7.8030809@internode.on.net> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:35:35 +1000 From: Peter Prewett User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4880549bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4fb4ab2fb5john@acornusers.org> In-Reply-To: <4fb4ab2fb5john@acornusers.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 858 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: pprewett@internode.on.net Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=j-gvkVzNdkYtqRfd8uYA:9 a=_KovifDn74jbjOMVhNcA:7 a=xHN5jMnA7NQyEBpa-lj6aIAIycUA:4 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] One thing concerns me is the problem that David has that there is no back up. Thus as I look at my longevity and ponder outcomes etc. What is the future when David reaches retirement age. There will be no on going support or upgrades to cater for changes in computer design. Perhaps then the need for being able to transfer/convert documents (easily - without loss of detail) to another SW package has huge importance. We all have had valuable free support from David over the years which I certainly appreciate thus I am prepared to purchase an upgrade based on the above. Sorry for feeling negative but it is a bit of SW that I prefer to use and will continue to do so. Peter -- Peter Prewett, Tumut, New South Wales To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 11:41:48 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBLYx-4fZknw-07-DDI.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:41:48 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBLYx-4fZknw-07-DDI; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 03:20:51 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBLYx-4fZknw-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 03:20:51 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBLYx-0002Wf-1k for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 03:20:51 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7BDD3863440; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02102-03; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3C9D686342B; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:20:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A0B72863440 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01901-09 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:20:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ipmail05.adl2.internode.on.net (ipmail05.adl2.internode.on.net [203.16.214.145]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D01CA8633DF for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:20:10 -0400 (EDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvMAAEBWYUh5LAgZ/2dsb2JhbAAIsmM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,700,1204464600"; d="scan'208";a="144204201" Received: from ppp121-44-8-25.lns10.syd7.internode.on.net (HELO [192.168.1.102]) ([121.44.8.25]) by ipmail05.adl2.internode.on.net with ESMTP; 25 Jun 2008 12:49:53 +0930 Message-ID: <4861B963.2040201@internode.on.net> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:20:03 +1000 From: Peter Prewett User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ovation software list Subject: [softwarelist] Ovation W to pdf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 859 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: pprewett@internode.on.net Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=hVMyIcJmbXhk6_yNaLYA:9 a=H9Xkhs1PD02eLZF4q_4A:7 a=GtSX1sxF1Bu-J-lGFHqIxeKwdqoA:4 a=2uiCRmbCp6AA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] Have copied a document from the RiscPC to Windows and then created a PDF with Bullzip. One problem that has arisen is that the Draw picture in a frame which had a transparent background is black. Is this because the draw file has been converted to a jpeg in converting to PDF? and what steps can be carried out to maintain the transparency? Peter -- Peter Prewett, Tumut, New South Wales To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 11:41:53 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBOao-46ZVbs-06-ABR.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:41:53 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBOao-46ZVbs-06-ABR; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 06:34:58 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBOao-46ZVbs-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 06:34:58 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBOao-00016I-8Z for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 06:34:58 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id AD864863D54; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 02:34:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15291-05; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 02:34:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 67668863EF1; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 02:34:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 02:34:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6D6F1863D54 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 02:34:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15152-09 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 02:34:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ptb-relay01.plus.net (ptb-relay01.plus.net [212.159.14.212]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3AFB0863D41 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 02:34:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [84.92.97.176] (helo=greatest) by ptb-relay01.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1KBOa9-0005K3-EW for davidpilling@freelists.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:34:18 +0100 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:21:35 +0100 From: Tim Powys-Lybbe To: Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro Message-ID: <9f73d6b44f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <0a4be2b34f.pnyoung@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk> <0fcb1ab44f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <000601c8d582$125b7eb0$37127c10$@com> In-Reply-To: <000601c8d582$125b7eb0$37127c10$@com> X-Organization: South Farm, Calstone, Calne, Wilts, England (no house here!) User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Plusnet-Relay: c2c24969ea740a9715baecf6594b419c X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 860 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: tim@powys.org Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=5nPkVO1zAAAA:8 a=v6Aic-fSAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=nbXFgXJqbRIoWTY4c6YA:9 a=1HuhL09B3z7M7Sq8bRgA:7 a=BF9z_vvj_MmjOl1E6oWehVhoTgAA:4 a=Q-yGKnO_R9AA:10 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1516] In message of 23 Jun, "Ian Barr" wrote: > Have you tried JAlbum for creating web pages of images? > http://jalbum.net/ No. From the looks of the web-page it is a windows program. And it looks like it does not output to PDF files which is my purpose. --=20 Tim Powys-Lybbe=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0tim@pow= ys.org =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0For a miscellany of bygones: http:= //powys.org/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpill= ing From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 11:56:20 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBSZ4-2saVbs-08-Ejh.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:56:20 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBSZ4-2saVbs-08-Ejh; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:49:26 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBSZ4-2saVbs-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:49:26 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBSZ3-0002MN-Ib for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:49:25 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E95F08643FD; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 06:49:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05882-07; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 06:49:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A127F864527; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 06:49:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 06:48:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 157FB863B61 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 05:41:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31803-05 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 05:41:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx5.orcon.net.nz (mx5.orcon.net.nz [219.88.242.55]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8244B863A1A for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 05:41:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Debian-exim by mx5.orcon.net.nz with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KBRVh-0008FV-MG for davidpilling@freelists.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:41:53 +1200 Received: from [60.234.184.59] (helo=mysteriousmrf.my.home) by mx5.orcon.net.nz with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KBRVh-0008F6-0v for davidpilling@freelists.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:41:53 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Robert Greenfield To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:11:16 +1200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) Content-Type: text/plain X-DSPAM-Check: by mx5.orcon.net.nz on Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:41:53 +1200 X-DSPAM-Result: Innocent X-DSPAM-Processed: Wed Jun 25 21:41:53 2008 X-DSPAM-Confidence: 0.7615 X-DSPAM-Probability: 0.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 861 X-Approved-By: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: monster@caverock.net.nz Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=an63MGxJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=MOmi7e8wpYh0dkeOwx0A:9 a=lZ7ynXv2kzLDbM4HoAoA:7 a=vcQGumC7E3VuvAAOQ41Bj_zj0E4A:4 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] On 24 Jun, David Pilling wrote: > The problem is that there is no single improvement which would make the > program instantly viable. Instant, complete solutions are hard to find! I am not sure that I would consider OvPro unviable, in that I think it is very competent at what it does. I am still finding very useful things that it can do (latest one was leading chars in TABs). > My current disillusion with Windows is due to the realisation that years > of work are now needed just to add the basic requirements. What are you comparing OvPro to for these 'basic requirements', and what audience would require these 'basic requirements'? > Often in the past people have said "add feature A and I will buy it", > having added A they then turn around and say "do you seriously expect me > to use a program that lacks feature B". That is pretty rubbish of them. > >Why not make DDL standard OvPro format and leave the binary one for > >loading legacy documents? > Because for most users this would make no difference. Right now no, but what of the future? Isn't DDL a more robust format? I am aware from discussions that some information isn't currently saved in DDL. I can imagine that DDL will be far easier to export to other apps & platforms than a binary format. It must be more future-proof. > >- I'd like a 'screen redraw' button to clear the occasional detritus > >left by processes. > I'd like to see the bugs that cause this fixed. Longer term, yes, but an easy, short-term, temporary fix. > >Let schools/teachers know that they can still use their old Impression > >files even though they now use Windows. > One interesting aspect of the demise of Acorn was how many documents > must have been dumped along with all the computers in schools. This > discussion began with me talking about getting someone's book from > Impression to Word format. It is hard to believe that no one wrote a > Word translator in about 1995. It is perhaps a bit late now. Possibly, however a year or so ago I was emailed by a school who were still using some RO2 library app on (what I can gather) was an A310. Other schools gave their RiscPCs to teachers who wanted them. There are inexpensive/free ways of letting people know about the service that your software can provide. regards, -- Robert Greenfield via RISC OS - http://www.webmonster.co.nz/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 12:11:21 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBSq2-47aVbs-02-ESj.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:11:21 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBSq2-47aVbs-02-ESj; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:06:58 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBSq2-47aVbs-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:06:58 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBSq2-00039B-5s for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:06:58 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8A60B8649F9; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07675-10; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4C6B08648E1; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:06:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C999A8649F9 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:06:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07624-05 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:06:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.86]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 938438649AF for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:06:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KBSpN-000Gek-Ks for davidpilling@freelists.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:06:17 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:04:58 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 862 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=OCKWxbv4enFfC1CiBtgA:9 a=9UKmgBNG5hFF5ofhkYwA:7 a=uA8DZvHEhLJcMXBM9DvOLFfdILEA:4 a=50e4U0PicR4A:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] Hi, In message <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz>, Robert Greenfield writes >I am not sure that I would consider OvPro unviable, in that I think it is >very competent at what it does. I am still finding very useful things that >it can do (latest one was leading chars in TABs). Viable here means the number of users. You can do a great deal with the program. >> My current disillusion with Windows is due to the realisation that years >> of work are now needed just to add the basic requirements. >What are you comparing OvPro to for these 'basic requirements', and what >audience would require these 'basic requirements'? What does a long term Windows user want, and what does it take to compete with and surpass other programs. >> having added A they then turn around and say "do you seriously expect me >> to use a program that lacks feature B". >That is pretty rubbish of them. I think it just shows that DTP programs have many features. >Right now no, but what of the future? Isn't DDL a more robust format? >I am aware from discussions that some information isn't currently saved in >DDL. >I can imagine that DDL will be far easier to export to other apps & >platforms than a binary format. It must be more future-proof. DDL saves everything except how to display documents. In that sense there is no more (or very little) to add. >There are inexpensive/free ways of letting people know about the service >that your software can provide. That is interesting, what are they? -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 20:34:12 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBTqd-12X000-01-DS8.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:34:12 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBTqd-12X000-01-DS8; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:11:39 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBTqd-12X000-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:11:39 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBTqb-0002Ew-HC for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:11:39 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C59CD86367D; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08214-10; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 787398634D8; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:11:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A7AAF86367D for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:11:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08199-01 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:11:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.5]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 727838635EE for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:11:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.23.170.145] (helo=anti-virus03-08) by smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1KBSug-0001Fp-MP for davidpilling@freelists.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:11:46 +0100 Received: from [82.33.200.41] (helo=iyonix.workgroup) by asmtp-out5.blueyonder.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1KBSug-0004ZB-85 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:11:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jack Evans To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:07:36 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) Message-ID: <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 863 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: jack@ljsevans.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=Aqbn3--kJX9nBRULcgkA:9 a=5HKs1n4mhRoCYmAOipYA:7 a=jqs4ypQvcBG-iB8WfFs3pcScGGwA:4 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] On 24 Jun, David Pilling wrote: > In message <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk>, Ned Abell > writes > >Ive just been looking through the 2006 Freelists archive discussion > >on this subject and wondered if you had any newer thoughts on this > >David ? > You can tell what I'm up against, I installed Linux on an old machine > in May 2006 to investigate, I don't think I've turned it on since. > Given my dislike for Windows, a move to Linux is possible. Oddly > enough one reason why I don't move today, is that I use Ovation Pro > and it is not available for Linux. If you're seriously contemplating a move do consider a Mac machine eg a basic Mac Mini at =A3399. While you'll undoubtedly miss some RO features the Leopard OS more than makes up for them in other respects and is a great deal more responsive and logical than Windows, thus a much better experience. > Would I do a Linux version (or a Mac version)... the problem is the > amount of time involved. Without trying I don't know for sure, but if > like Windows it involves several years full time work then I think it > is unlikely. Mac version? ... if only!! Regards Jack --=20 Jack Evans Bristol UK mailto:jack@ljsevans.co.uk To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpill= ing From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 20:34:19 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBYxc-46C000-04-Grf.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:34:19 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBYxc-46C000-04-Grf; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:39:12 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBYxc-46C000-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:39:12 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBYxa-0003nX-Nd for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:39:11 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CB555864B86; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21121-03; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 86C41864BC0; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:39:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:38:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BEAF1864B86 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:38:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20952-06 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:38:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp.talktalk.net (smtp-out-1.talktalk.net [62.24.128.231]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 56432864B6A for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:38:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Path: TTSMTP X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhA5APkeYkhOkJbtPGdsb2JhbACIcYlaAQEBAS2gUw Received: from unknown (HELO Iyonix.roger.red-squirrel.com) ([78.144.150.237]) by smtp.talktalk.net with ESMTP; 25 Jun 2008 18:38:26 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Roger Foden X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:37:58 +0100 Message-ID: <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> X-Organization: The Hot Desk User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 864 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: roger@red-squirrel.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=5YJD3vbaDlc2NhZmqrwA:9 a=OXgeSRYcjFlVoC8gku4A:7 a=X-uIirmMMP37N7nKXxngpSK3-SYA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] In message <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> Jack Evans wrote: > On 24 Jun, David Pilling wrote: [snip] >> You can tell what I'm up against, I installed Linux on an old machine >> in May 2006 to investigate, I don't think I've turned it on since. >> Given my dislike for Windows, a move to Linux is possible. Oddly >> enough one reason why I don't move today, is that I use Ovation Pro >> and it is not available for Linux. > If you're seriously contemplating a move do consider a Mac machine eg a= > basic Mac Mini at =A3399. While you'll undoubtedly miss some RO feature= s > the Leopard OS more than makes up for them in other respects and is a > great deal more responsive and logical than Windows, thus a much better= > experience. >> Would I do a Linux version (or a Mac version)... the problem is the >> amount of time involved. Without trying I don't know for sure, but if >> like Windows it involves several years full time work then I think it >> is unlikely. > Mac version? ... if only!! > Regards > Jack Is anyone using OvPro via VRPC on a Mac? I quite fancy trying that. Regards Roger --=20 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 20:34:19 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBZ0q-4DY000-01-GoR.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:34:19 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBZ0q-4DY000-01-GoR; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:42:32 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBZ0q-4DY000-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:42:32 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBZ0p-0004RM-Qg for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:42:32 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D0113863940; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:42:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21867-06; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:42:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9028A8636FA; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:42:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:41:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E7A35864B84 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21449-09 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pih-relay04.plus.net (pih-relay04.plus.net [212.159.14.131]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7AFA5864A0A for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 13:41:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [84.92.97.176] (helo=greatest) by pih-relay04.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1KBYzh-0005ms-1H for davidpilling@freelists.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:41:21 +0100 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:38:45 +0100 From: Tim Powys-Lybbe To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro Message-ID: References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <1sz3SKEZNNYIFwv$@pilling.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <1sz3SKEZNNYIFwv$@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: South Farm, Calstone, Calne, Wilts, England (no house here!) User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Plusnet-Relay: 06e5ba23618ec7545a48661d155f863b X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 865 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: tim@powys.org Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=v6Aic-fSAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=ecsGM-x89etedqpIwV4A:9 a=hwEnn5Ck9vfGWcXF7gsA:7 a=XAc0cgQ3CBu6n5ibsAMMeDlCgIsA:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=FKFaWgXJAKAA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] (Now for the second attempt to reply following a total machine crash here a few second before I would have pressed the send button; no idea why it happened. :-( ) In message of 24 Jun, David Pilling wrote: > In message <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>, Tim Powys-Lybbe=20 > writes > >For some years now I have been using OPro to construct PDF files that > >consist of a series of pictures (scans) of old documents. By and larg= e > >I find that this can only be done successfully by converting the > >pictures to (large) sprites. >=20 >=20 > One thing you need to understand is that Ovation Pro can only render an= d=20 > contain in documents certain types of image. Thanks for the explanation. > >Second: Load in 1-bit Tiff files > > "Unknown or missing variable (internal number 6282)" >=20 > My TranTIFF+ would be a better choice for loading TIFF files than=20 > TransFSI (from which I assume the above error comes). Yes I was using Tiff+. > (and note that not only must this be installed but TransFSI must be tol= d=20 > not to load TIFFs). But I had not told TransFSI about that: how? > >Using the same file as in the previous example I converted them to > >Gif; this increased the size from, say, 40 Kbytes or so to 60 Kbytes > >or so. The Gif files would load into OPro with no trouble; but saving > >the OPro file resulted in a file of 6 Mbytes (yes, Mega). >=20 > Bottom line, GIF files are translated when loaded (into Sprites). The sprite file for the GIF was around 300k. The really odd thing is that OPro suddenly jumped the file size to the 6 M. Perhaps it converted the GIF to 32bpp? >=20 > >A totally alternative strategy might be to use another program to > >assemble all the images to join them together into one PDF file. But = I > >have yet to find a program that does this as easily as OPro - and I ha= ve > >tried Easiwriter. Any suggestions, anyone? >=20 > I'm not sure what the problem is with using 1bpp sprites. If the files=20 > come out of your scanning software as TIFF (say) then when you construc= t=20 > the OP document they will be converted to sprites automatically when=20 > loaded. The downside of course is that documents will be large. Yes. That's why I have found that the only way to proceed is to use Sprites and then hold them by Reference, so the OPro file is small. PDF does its own compression and results in a very acceptable final file size. > If you're producing the same thing over and over, then you might like t= o=20 > investigate using pictures in mail merge (see the OP manual). I suspect= =20 > the same limits on referenced images will apply though. That had not occurred to me. It sounds as if there is an opportunity for a measure of automation that would speed up what can be a very lengthy process. I'll be giving it a whirl. Thanks. --=20 Tim Powys-Lybbe=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0tim@pow= ys.org =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0For a miscellany of bygones: http:= //powys.org/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpill= ing From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 20:34:22 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBZl4-1XUknw-08-G4D.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:34:22 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBZl4-1XUknw-08-G4D; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:30:18 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBZl4-1XUknw-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:30:18 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBZkz-0003vP-Br for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:30:18 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BA088864FF3; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:28:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28032-06; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:28:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7BC3D864FEE; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:28:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:28:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 849F9864F51 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27952-01 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relay.freeuk.net (relay.freeuk.net [212.126.144.54]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3D1DD864E8D for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:28:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ludo.freeuk.net ([212.126.144.9]) by relay.freeuk.net with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1KBZiq-000Njx-9I for davidpilling@freelists.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:28:00 +0100 Received: from ludo.freeuk.net (localhost.freeuk.net [127.0.0.1]) by ludo.freeuk.net (8.13.3/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m5PIS0xt004687 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:28:00 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from bonytaker@freeuk.com) Received: (from claranet@localhost) by ludo.freeuk.net (8.13.3/8.12.11/Submit) id m5PIS0Y5004686; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:28:00 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from bonytaker@freeuk.com) Message-Id: <200806251828.m5PIS0Y5004686@ludo.freeuk.net> X-Authentication-Warning: ludo.freeuk.net: claranet set sender to bonytaker@freeuk.com using -f References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4880549bbailey@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: From: "Anthony Baker" To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:28:00 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Remote_Addr: 86.5.36.250 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 866 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: bonytaker@freeuk.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=JhRy_WodmM4PIM3uvdsA:9 a=F25PAc9pH8KegdnkouoA:7 a=jqNWUOMI7McVf0NsPb7FGzf-8I0A:4 a=gi0PWCVxevcA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] I couldn't agree more David. I have used Ovation since the earliest days and still use it at least weekly on both RiscOS and on the Micro. As you say there is no more future in the wonderful Acorn Platform and you would be wasting your time. May I give you my sincere thanks for all your efforts over the years. Best wishes for the future. Tony Baker. David Pilling writes: > In message <4fb4880549bbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Bailey > writes >> approach/model for an update, which may not work at all. No doubt David >> already knows what does or does not work for him in that regard. Perhaps >> he might wish to share his views with us on this aspect of OvatPro >> development to move the discussion forward. > > This discussion began with me saying that Ovation Pro had, over 20 years, > proved to be a failure and I wanted to move on to something else - and the > one thing I would not do again is work on RISC OS. > > We are now talking about an upgrade for the RISC OS version 8-) > > I know there are people who use Ovation Pro, I appreciate your support > over the years. > > You're the users, it is fair to point out my current feelings. We can go > on as for the last two years - in maintenance mode, keeping the program > working as RISC OS and Windows evolve. Or someone can come up with a > better idea. > > A RISC OS upgrade is not a better idea... > > > -- > David Pilling > email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk > web: http://www.davidpilling.net > post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK > fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 > > > To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: > http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling > Tony Baker To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 20:34:23 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBZqF-1jAknw-02-Fz2.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:34:23 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBZqF-1jAknw-02-Fz2; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:35:39 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBZqF-1jAknw-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:35:39 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBZq8-0001fS-Qe for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:35:38 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A1AAB865152; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:32:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28670-02; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:32:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6D19186513D; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:32:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:32:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1FC8B8650FD for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:32:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28476-03 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:32:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ptb-relay01.plus.net (ptb-relay01.plus.net [212.159.14.212]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 350178650F3 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:32:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [84.92.97.176] (helo=greatest) by ptb-relay01.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1KBZmm-0002Kw-Q7 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:32:09 +0100 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:26:15 +0100 From: Tim Powys-Lybbe To: Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro Message-ID: <06cc18b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb44bb643dave@triffid.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb44bb643dave@triffid.co.uk> X-Organization: South Farm, Calstone, Calne, Wilts, England (no house here!) User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Plusnet-Relay: 6532a6114817f4e2d90973dc8ceb6efd X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 867 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: tim@powys.org Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=v6Aic-fSAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=Fw5JXG5WNr_2XOu-CGIA:9 a=9Un1GF67MT8SnrCGIcIA:7 a=G1bi-9B2rWvSosO1YzZzIfURWMoA:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] In message of 24 Jun, Dave Symes wrote: > In article <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>, > Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: > > For some years now I have been using OPro to construct PDF files that > > consist of a series of pictures (scans) of old documents. By and lar= ge > > I find that this can only be done successfully by converting the > > pictures to (large) sprites. >=20 > [Snip] >=20 > > A totally alternative strategy might be to use another program to > > assemble all the images to join them together into one PDF file. But= I > > have yet to find a program that does this as easily as OPro - and I h= ave > > tried Easiwriter. Any suggestions, anyone? >=20 > Have you tried using PNG files. I thought I had and I thought it failed. > I also use OvPro to construct PDF files, though on a smaller scale than > you are doing,I can't say I've noticed any problems. So I tried another PNG. And it still failed, presumably because it won't load into the RISC OS version. Might you, perhcance, be using Windows? --=20 Tim Powys-Lybbe=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0tim@pow= ys.org =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0For a miscellany of bygones: http:= //powys.org/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpill= ing From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 20:34:25 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBa6L-2QLknw-06-Fiw.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:34:25 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBa6L-2QLknw-06-Fiw; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:52:17 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBa6L-2QLknw-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:52:17 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBa6K-0003BN-NR for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:52:17 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 91C288646B7; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:52:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31417-04; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:52:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 53631864FD2; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:52:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:51:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1687A864E8A for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:51:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31270-07 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:51:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ptb-relay01.plus.net (ptb-relay01.plus.net [212.159.14.212]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BDE558650CB for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [84.92.97.176] (helo=greatest) by ptb-relay01.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1KBa5V-0002AQ-1r for davidpilling@freelists.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:51:30 +0100 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:50:37 +0100 From: Tim Powys-Lybbe To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) Message-ID: References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> In-Reply-To: <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> X-Organization: South Farm, Calstone, Calne, Wilts, England (no house here!) User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Plusnet-Relay: a226234bdcd5ffc90a73258a39b44e66 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 868 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: tim@powys.org Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=v6Aic-fSAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=vyLo0opuEekOZZm5LicA:9 a=C7q4qe1OYunfShAobLgA:7 a=vTaGFlaMfpiBNLY50rPdTbyP_CoA:4 a=HURXEEAAiz4A:10 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] In message of 25 Jun, Roger Foden wrote: > Is anyone using OvPro via VRPC on a Mac? Yes. Works OK but not given it a real thrash; that will have to wait until I get a bit nearer to a total migration to Mac which will then run all of Mac, Risc OS, Ubuntu and, if all else fails, Windows. But this will need a much beefier machine than my present Mini. --=20 Tim Powys-Lybbe=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0tim@pow= ys.org =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0For a miscellany of bygones: http:= //powys.org/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpill= ing From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 20:49:10 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBaoq-4Alknw-06-F0R.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:49:10 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBaoq-4Alknw-06-F0R; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:38:16 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBaoq-4Alknw-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:38:16 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBaop-0005Mw-Sz for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:38:16 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 54BEA864F36; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:38:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05391-05; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:38:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0ED17865032; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:38:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:37:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 881078645ED for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:00:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12757-07 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:00:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (zen.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.18]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3D8D38645E6 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 08:00:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 192.168.123.1 ([88.202.209.176]) by zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id m5PBxtLY021751 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:59:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Ovation Pro) To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 12:19:07 +0100 X-Organization: Orpheusmail, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: Posty - Voyager Email 1.41 for RISC OS 4.39 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-Id: <2454643.121974-ovationpro@orpheusmail.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 869 X-Approved-By: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: ovationpro@orpheusmail.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=a1HOmxmgt6xhMLssCcsA:9 a=Z2DueyQZKc18NKp1ojUA:7 a=YLqulGPN8Z5J2V_VpPgNfPaEbboA:4 a=gi0PWCVxevcA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] I have used Ovation Pro on RISCOS for many years and latterly on Windows also. It is my first choice for all routine work and I prefer the Riscos to the Windows version because the menu system is so much more direct. The windows version has been invaluable when sending documents to our new 7400DXF colour printer/finisher because it can handle a mixture of Black and White and Colour pages easily. When windows programs output to the printer there is a severe danger of accidentally creating a B/W page which has inadvertant and invisible colour. This increases the printing cost by a factor of SEVEN TIMES and our first issue of our local magazine overspent by almost a thousand pounds as a result. Using Ovation Pro you can check each apparently B/W picture and convert it to duotone quickly and easily without using any other program. Duotone is a misnomer it is actually indistinguishable from greyscale. We even print from windows programs to jpegs and import these into OPro for printing. (There are automatic ways of doing this) This enables us to have mixtures of colour and B/W pages with no excess because the B/W pages have somehow become invisible colour. (NB invisible colour occurs when the program asks for CYM(K) mixture to represent black) OPro can also edit the colour balance etc of any image without having to recourse to the original software. When we are receiving material derived from almost every bitmap editor ever written this is a huge advantage. As a result of all this it is far easier to compose in OPro than in any windows program we have found. The only difficulty is in importing material sent in Windows formats eg WORD and PUBLISHER. If OPro could do this it would be by far the best DTP on the market. We currently work around this by printing to jpegs from the original or ,in the last resort, converting to text. John -- _ ________________________________________ /_| _ _ _ /| /_ _/_ /' / || (_|(_)/ |/(/_/_ / The Internet Experts ________) ___________./ ovationpro@orpheusmail.co.uk To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 20:49:11 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBaqH-4Dmknw-07-Ez0.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:49:11 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBaqH-4Dmknw-07-Ez0; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:39:45 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBaqH-4Dmknw-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:39:45 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBaqG-0002Pe-QM for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:39:45 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 02CC9865021; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:39:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05624-01; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:39:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BD92F864E20; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:39:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:39:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BC9E9864C2F for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:39:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05437-10 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:39:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpout.karoo.kcom.com (smtpout.karoo.kcom.com [212.50.160.34]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6D02486419E for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:39:04 -0400 (EDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,703,1204502400"; d="scan'208";a="6137447" Received: from unknown (HELO martins-pc) ([82.152.145.38]) by smtpout.karoo.kcom.com with SMTP; 25 Jun 2008 20:38:31 +0100 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:38:58 +0100 From: Martin Devon To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-Id: <20080625203858.69d4b8ff.martin.devon@heleigh.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <200806251828.m5PIS0Y5004686@ludo.freeuk.net> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4880549bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <200806251828.m5PIS0Y5004686@ludo.freeuk.net> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 2.5.0 (GTK+ 2.10.14; i686-pc-mingw32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 870 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: martin.devon@heleigh.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=hSJUH_mhAzEnmCxz4RAA:9 a=EIeFLJxYa0Sjuiqk7woA:7 a=ggufXNdcI1-fG5USgUr81TWNhhIA:4 a=MxZ3bB5I4kYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] > David Pilling writes: > > > > You're the users, it is fair to point out my current feelings. We can go > > on as for the last two years - in maintenance mode, keeping the program > > working as RISC OS and Windows evolve. Or someone can come up with a > > better idea. Work on its strengths and gloss over any weaknesses. What is the Unique Selling Point of Ovation Pro? What does it do better than anything else? If appropriate, make it into a turnkey solution, packaged with whatever hardware is best suited. The number of users alone is irrelevant, whatever the platform. What matters is the number of users times the revenue per user. A handful of users paying 4 or 5 figures a year is a lot better than thousands of users expecting upgrades for free, believe me. -- Martin R. Devon MSc Consulting Engineer, Box, Wilts, UK RISC OS in the Timber Frame Housing Industry To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 20:49:11 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBaqX-4EWknw-07-Eyk.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:49:11 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBaqX-4EWknw-07-Eyk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:40:01 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBaqX-4EWknw-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:40:01 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBaqW-0002m7-Vd for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:40:01 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 113D6864EFE; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:40:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05637-05; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:40:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CFD98864EF4; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:39:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:39:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C8CF1864EFE for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05470-07 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.87]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 91BE0864F07 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.68) id 1KBapr-0004g4-PI for davidpilling@freelists.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:39:20 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:33:50 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb51efc01john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <200806251828.m5PIS0Y5004686@ludo.freeuk.net> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4880549bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <200806251828.m5PIS0Y5004686@ludo.freeuk.net> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/6.10) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 871 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: john@cartmell.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=KOUuiXkdI-HjWLXjXIcA:9 a=axq39GiGbCs-gioGxFEA:7 a=LfM6imWfeSs3jv1EYKo8rXHb9pUA:4 a=zlPwTsyquw4A:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] On 25 Jun, Anthony Baker wrote: > As you say there is no more future in the wonderful Acorn Platform and you > would be wasting your time. You are both quite wrong in your assessment and quite wrong to agree to your joint pessimism. David may not be working on a future for RISC OS (but I wish he would) but other people are. I intend to use RISC OS machines in my retirement and that's still some time off. And I don't intend using the current hardware and OS either! ;-) -- John To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 20:49:11 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBay8-4VQknw-03-Er9.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:49:11 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBay8-4VQknw-03-Er9; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:47:52 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBay8-4VQknw-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:47:52 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBay7-0006y3-R7 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:47:52 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 63744864C43; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:47:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06955-01; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:47:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 28630863ED9; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:47:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:47:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BC5C886466D for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:47:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06779-08 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:47:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from fhw-relay07.plus.net (fhw-relay07.plus.net [212.159.14.215]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2C158864BD1 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:47:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [80.229.143.2] (helo=radstock.localdomain) by fhw-relay07.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1KBaxP-0002kW-2B for davidpilling@freelists.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:47:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Chris Johnson To: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:46:13 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro Message-ID: <4fb5201e3echris@chrisjohnson.plus.com> In-Reply-To: <06cc18b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb44bb643dave@triffid.co.uk> <06cc18b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) Content-Type: text/plain X-Plusnet-Relay: 445da7c2ae7a8e78ff203b145d1fef55 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 872 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: chris@chrisjohnson.plus.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=Jn0taSkpInwhz9hymGMA:9 a=6f9M9VwsZQ-ku0xM2SsA:7 a=Rd0GalnVf8guiJviJ9H0fbsT7CIA:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] In article <06cc18b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>, Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: > So I tried another PNG. And it still failed, presumably because it > won't load into the RISC OS version. The difference is that (TTBOMK) Select has a much wider range of image processing routines built in to the OS, and can deal with PNGs. RISC OS 5, which you are using, does not. I know from many previous posts that Dave uses Select - indeed, he has said many times that he never considered buying an Iyonix because there was no Select for it. Chris... -- Chris Johnson To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 21:19:11 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBbJl-0aXVbs-07-EVW.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:19:11 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBbJl-0aXVbs-07-EVW; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:10:13 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBbJl-0aXVbs-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:10:13 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBbJl-0003TU-7R for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:10:13 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9A08D864E43; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:10:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10205-06; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:10:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 53FBE864E74; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:10:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:09:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 17DCB864E4C for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:09:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10125-04 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:09:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from b.painless.aaisp.net.uk (b.painless.aaisp.net.uk [81.187.30.52]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BEADB864DF1 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:09:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 170.90.155.90.in-addr.arpa ([90.155.90.170] helo=standalone.Ashlan) by b.painless.aaisp.net.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KBbJ6-0008A0-0u for davidpilling@freelists.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:09:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Phil To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:09:13 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb5223909philco@heter.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <2454643.121974-ovationpro@orpheusmail.co.uk> References: <2454643.121974-ovationpro@orpheusmail.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Clear (Version: ClamAV 0.93.1/7554/Tue Jun 24 21:44:58 2008, by smtp.aaisp.net.uk) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 873 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: philco@heter.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=EgS1rZDhefIZ-NaDWsQA:9 a=ey3X4VrDRGZ-Y0ju304A:7 a=Jje2u9h62gz0HabM5GllpIqK-3EA:4 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] On 25 Jun, Ovation Pro wrote: > I have used Ovation Pro on RISCOS for many years and latterly on > Windows also. > It is my first choice for all routine work and I prefer the Riscos to > the Windows version because the menu system is so much more direct. > The windows version has been invaluable when sending documents to our > new 7400DXF colour printer/finisher because it can handle a mixture of > Black and White and Colour pages easily. When windows programs output > to the printer there is a severe danger of accidentally creating a B/W > page which has inadvertant and invisible colour. This increases the > printing cost by a factor of SEVEN TIMES and our first issue of our > local magazine overspent by almost a thousand pounds as a result. > Using Ovation Pro you can check each apparently B/W picture and convert > it to duotone quickly and easily without using any other program. > Duotone is a misnomer it is actually indistinguishable from greyscale. > We even print from windows programs to jpegs and import these into OPro > for printing. (There are automatic ways of doing this) This enables us > to have mixtures of colour and B/W pages with no excess because the B/W > pages have somehow become invisible colour. > (NB invisible colour occurs when the program asks for CYM(K) mixture to > represent black) > OPro can also edit the colour balance etc of any image without having > to recourse to the original software. When we are receiving material > derived from almost every bitmap editor ever written this is a huge > advantage. > As a result of all this it is far easier to compose in OPro than in any > windows program we have found. > The only difficulty is in importing material sent in Windows formats eg > WORD and PUBLISHER. If OPro could do this it would be by far the best > DTP on the market. We currently work around this by printing to jpegs > from the original or ,in the last resort, converting to text. > John I'm only a small voice in this conversation and my use of Opro is far below the level of the majority of those that post in this group. My level of use could be considered crude by some of the members work, but when I compare my simple offerings to what I've seen as struggled DTP work produced elsewhere on windows, I feel justified in using OvationPro. Having said that, one thing that I am equal with you all, is, I prefer to use Opro because its easy to use and it does what it says on the tin. I also have a fair chance of retaining my dwindling sanity for longer by only occasional use of any Windows alternative. Phil -- philco@heter.co.uk To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 21:34:13 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBbY2-15zVbs-04-EHF.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:34:13 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBbY2-15zVbs-04-EHF; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:24:58 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBbY2-15zVbs-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:24:58 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBbY2-0002C4-4g for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:24:58 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 52ACB864BA6; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:24:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11648-07; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:24:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 21583864BE6; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:24:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:24:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2EDD5864BA6 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:24:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11466-08 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:24:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (zen.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.18]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D89C0864999 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:24:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave.nom ([88.202.196.209]) by zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m5PKNxIU028219 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:24:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:13:25 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro Message-ID: <4fb5229bb2dave@triffid.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <06cc18b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb44bb643dave@triffid.co.uk> <06cc18b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/6.10) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 874 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: dave@triffid.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=yoE33P1qGZmsQL7RJigA:9 a=-Ie2osR8l33JxWKRbUAA:7 a=D9UoLu89uo2DB-ASNpIfqdLdslAA:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] In article <06cc18b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>, Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: [Snippy] > So I tried another PNG. And it still failed, presumably because it > won't load into the RISC OS version. > Might you, perhcance, be using Windows? Tim, Though I do have and use OvPro for Windows, in this case using OvPro for RISC OS. It's all down to RO Select, we can do much more with the larger range of graphic filters that the recent Select version have. I hadn't looked at your posting header until now, and see you are using 5.13 that means an Iyo and no Select. Sorreee! Cheers Dave S -- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 21:34:13 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBbY5-169Vbs-04-EHC.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:34:13 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBbY5-169Vbs-04-EHC; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:25:01 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBbY5-169Vbs-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:25:01 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBbY5-0006Ux-6L for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:25:01 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B6D5A864BE6; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:25:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11648-09; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:25:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 80EE2864BA6; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:25:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:24:22 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B2445864C11 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11466-10 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (zen.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.18]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5E9CF864999 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave.nom ([88.202.196.209]) by zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m5PKNxIW028219 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:24:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:21:10 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro Message-ID: <4fb523513adave@triffid.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb5201e3echris@chrisjohnson.plus.com> References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb44bb643dave@triffid.co.uk> <06cc18b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb5201e3echris@chrisjohnson.plus.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/6.10) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 875 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: dave@triffid.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=Qenp7Kf-dwCzlzUnVmUA:9 a=t5-INhWDrNgG36AUDNEA:7 a=vse-0JCec5mFGPojCIEMF8ULa8kA:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] In article <4fb5201e3echris@chrisjohnson.plus.com>, Chris Johnson wrote: > In article <06cc18b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>, > Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: > > So I tried another PNG. And it still failed, presumably because it > > won't load into the RISC OS version. > The difference is that (TTBOMK) Select has a much wider range of > image processing routines built in to the OS, and can deal with PNGs. > RISC OS 5, which you are using, does not. I know from many previous > posts that Dave uses Select - indeed, he has said many times that he > never considered buying an Iyonix because there was no Select for it. > Chris... Indeedy so... At present Select RO 6.10. I'm sorry to say that my qualification for an Iyo purchase still stands. If RO Ltd were to show a work in progress with Select for the Iyonix, and a committment to progress it, then I guess I'd be after an Iyo soonest. Cheers Dave S -- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 21:34:13 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBbdk-1FxVbs-01-EBX.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:34:13 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBbdk-1FxVbs-01-EBX; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:30:52 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBbdk-1FxVbs-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:30:52 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBbdk-0004BR-2S for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:30:52 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 67E33864C9C; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:30:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12367-06; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:30:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2FA46864C91; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:30:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:30:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DC44C864D73 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12219-10 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.87]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A214D864CDC for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:30:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) id 1KBbd5-0005ur-ON for davidpilling@freelists.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:30:11 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:28:34 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <1sz3SKEZNNYIFwv$@pilling.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 876 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=qInVw--bF8Mu4uUVu3oA:9 a=FlPc7ZFGTTwQSG6kx4UA:7 a=FlqfFWK4fAZ8un5VuOWJMwRaHTMA:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] In message , Tim Powys-Lybbe writes >> (and note that not only must this be installed but TransFSI must be told >> not to load TIFFs). >But I had not told TransFSI about that: how? Config files inside !TransFSI - a bit cryptic, have a look in there, read the help file. >The sprite file for the GIF was around 300k. The really odd thing is >that OPro suddenly jumped the file size to the 6 M. Perhaps it >converted the GIF to 32bpp? Again, OP is not doing the converting, TransFSI (and hence ChangeFSI) is. The filters work a lot better on Windows. Later you were talking about PNG - again TransFSI, needs configuring and a version of ChangeFSI that can handle PNG. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 21:34:14 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBbgM-1MlVbs-04-E8v.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:34:14 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBbgM-1MlVbs-04-E8v; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:33:34 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBbgM-1MlVbs-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:33:34 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBbgM-0005gu-In for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:33:34 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 18DB3864C91; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:33:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12599-10; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:33:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D4B90864C87; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:33:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:32:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7EEDF864D46 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:32:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12488-08 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:32:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.87]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4E9BB864BAD for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:32:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) id 1KBbfh-0000a7-ON for davidpilling@freelists.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:32:53 +0000 Message-ID: <$6SVHmCesqYIFw+1@pilling.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:31:26 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Ovation W to pdf References: <4861B963.2040201@internode.on.net> In-Reply-To: <4861B963.2040201@internode.on.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 877 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=guZDv20eFFoA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=qInVw--bF8Mu4uUVu3oA:9 a=Tu5B1kmh7P2Aev9BG5cA:7 a=Qgve6J_eYL7CcBGZfmKfJMMkVp0A:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] In message <4861B963.2040201@internode.on.net>, Peter Prewett writes >Have copied a document from the RiscPC to Windows and then created a >PDF with Bullzip. >One problem that has arisen is that the Draw picture in a frame which >had a transparent background is black. >Is this because the draw file has been converted to a jpeg in >converting to PDF? and what steps can be carried out to maintain the >transparency? >Peter That is interesting. A draw file will not be converted to JPEG... but the thing is a Draw file can contain many things, sprites, lines, JPEGs. So potentially it is a very complicated situation. Is there a simple way of reproducing this effect? -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jun 25 21:49:13 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBbvI-1r0Vbs-03-Dtz.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:49:13 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBbvI-1r0Vbs-03-Dtz; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:49:00 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBbvI-1r0Vbs-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:49:00 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBbvH-0004pK-PF for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:49:00 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2D3038647E8; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:48:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14109-10; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:48:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id ECE22864142; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:48:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:48:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 445DE8647E8 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:48:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14060-05 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:48:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pih-relay05.plus.net (pih-relay05.plus.net [212.159.14.132]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0D49B8647C3 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [84.92.97.176] (helo=greatest) by pih-relay05.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1KBbt3-0007Ma-TL for davidpilling@freelists.org; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:48:20 +0100 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:27:55 +0100 From: Tim Powys-Lybbe To: Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro Message-ID: <81ef23b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb44bb643dave@triffid.co.uk> <06cc18b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb5201e3echris@chrisjohnson.plus.com> In-Reply-To: <4fb5201e3echris@chrisjohnson.plus.com> X-Organization: South Farm, Calstone, Calne, Wilts, England (no house here!) User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Plusnet-Relay: f8e3eaac353b931a820162c7c7598c03 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 878 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: tim@powys.org Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=v6Aic-fSAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=TzKwtU9AhZI4WLzsTzQA:9 a=oUi3cXMxEKq2ni2hokIA:7 a=NqCJv1P8LyvKcQMrAiS41gOOyrUA:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] In message of 25 Jun, Chris Johnson wrote: > In article <06cc18b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>, > Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: > > So I tried another PNG. And it still failed, presumably because it > > won't load into the RISC OS version. > > The difference is that (TTBOMK) Select has a much wider range of > image processing routines built in to the OS, and can deal with PNGs. > RISC OS 5, which you are using, does not. I know from many previous > posts that Dave uses Select - indeed, he has said many times that he > never considered buying an Iyonix because there was no Select for it. And what he wrote late yesterday was: > One thing you need to understand is that Ovation Pro can only render and > contain in documents certain types of image. > > For RISC OS they are: Sprite, Draw, JPEG, ArtWorks and EPS. And surprise, surprise on my RPC with RISC OS 6.1 I could not load a PNG file into OPro there either. -- Tim Powys-Lybbe                                          tim@powys.org              For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 11:33:01 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBe4S-0lIGPo-02-Bkp.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:33:01 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBe4S-0lIGPo-02-Bkp; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 23:06:36 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBe4S-0lIGPo-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 23:06:36 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBe4Q-0001jx-Mm for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 23:06:36 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4956A864B5C; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:06:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30592-06; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:06:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0CEE8864B6F; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:06:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:05:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 474A5864B5C for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:05:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30514-03 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:05:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ipmail04.adl2.internode.on.net (ipmail04.adl2.internode.on.net [203.16.214.57]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 75F00864858 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:05:50 -0400 (EDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AuQAANexXkh5LAok/2dsb2JhbAAIrjY X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,704,1204464600"; d="scan'208";a="142910169" Received: from ppp121-44-10-36.lns10.syd7.internode.on.net (HELO [192.168.1.102]) ([121.44.10.36]) by ipmail04.adl2.internode.on.net with ESMTP; 26 Jun 2008 08:35:42 +0930 Message-ID: <4862CF53.8090407@internode.on.net> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:05:55 +1000 From: Peter Prewett User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Ovation W to pdf References: <4861B963.2040201@internode.on.net> <$6SVHmCesqYIFw+1@pilling.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <$6SVHmCesqYIFw+1@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 879 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: pprewett@internode.on.net Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=guZDv20eFFoA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=_QAZEmK-cFBPVHzjFvAA:9 a=vAbE34IZbwhTLlzgTJYA:7 a=8g0QrwPQJtQ5VCOvLoZ6ApFoWIwA:4 a=oltf0pfCdT4A:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] David Pilling wrote: > In message <4861B963.2040201@internode.on.net>, Peter Prewett > writes >> Have copied a document from the RiscPC to Windows and then created a >> PDF with Bullzip. >> One problem that has arisen is that the Draw picture in a frame which >> had a transparent background is black. >> Is this because the draw file has been converted to a jpeg in >> converting to PDF? and what steps can be carried out to maintain the >> transparency? >> Peter > > That is interesting. A draw file will not be converted to JPEG... but > the thing is a Draw file can contain many things, sprites, lines, > JPEGs. So potentially it is a very complicated situation. > > Is there a simple way of reproducing this effect? > > > Yes and have done some more work. The original was done in Impression on the RiscPC and then converted to Ovation Windows but the picture itself was drawn as a sprite and had a mask . Impression saves pictures as draw files and gets converted as such and displays correctly in Ovation Pro but it is the conversion to pdf from Ovation that the mask gets converted to black. The sprite was a line drawing and needs to be overlaid across another picture. I think that is what has happened... now to find a way around it. Peter -- Peter Prewett, Tumut, New South Wales To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 11:33:12 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBft4-09O000-01-9wD.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:33:12 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBft4-09O000-01-9wD; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 01:02:58 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBft4-09O000-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 01:02:58 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBft4-000521-EM for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 01:02:58 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 48AB486449E; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:02:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07324-04; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:02:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 144B08647AC; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:02:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:02:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0BCCE86449E for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:02:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07247-06 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ipmail04.adl2.internode.on.net (ipmail04.adl2.internode.on.net [203.16.214.57]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 70EC086476A for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:02:11 -0400 (EDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AuQAANexXkh5LAok/2dsb2JhbAAIrjY X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,705,1204464600"; d="scan'208";a="142995961" Received: from ppp121-44-10-36.lns10.syd7.internode.on.net (HELO [192.168.1.102]) ([121.44.10.36]) by ipmail04.adl2.internode.on.net with ESMTP; 26 Jun 2008 10:32:07 +0930 Message-ID: <4862EA9B.9030900@internode.on.net> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:02:19 +1000 From: Peter Prewett User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ovation software list Subject: [softwarelist] Import Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 880 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: pprewett@internode.on.net Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=efdOmnnP0xK-oBFDxdEA:9 a=0AkpYgqIVZ90IHYnXsAA:7 a=l-RdpOC79QU9EKuavLEvfpUF1H0A:4 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] One thing I miss in Ovation W is the ability to import Xara .xar files is there any chance that a filter could be produced? Peter -- Peter Prewett, Tumut, New South Wales To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 11:33:16 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBkz2-2bfknw-02-DMl.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:33:16 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBkz2-2bfknw-02-DMl; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:29:28 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBkz2-2bfknw-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:29:28 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBkz1-0000oL-Lb for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:29:27 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2DC5F864D3A; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:29:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30993-10; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:29:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id ECE7A864D37; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:29:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:28:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E3A71864D3A for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:28:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30914-02 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:28:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (zen.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.18]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9BB36864D38 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:28:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave.nom ([88.202.202.59]) by zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m5Q6SdYn004733 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:28:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:27:43 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro Message-ID: <4fb55ad922dave@triffid.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <81ef23b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb44bb643dave@triffid.co.uk> <06cc18b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb5201e3echris@chrisjohnson.plus.com> <81ef23b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/6.10) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 881 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: dave@triffid.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=oNA1NwLw5GBTP9x894QA:9 a=Uv-42YCQ2uWxd0tR45EA:7 a=4iQOrOVIbWa0HCym9Qxj4RcqA_AA:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] In article <81ef23b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>, Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: > And surprise, surprise on my RPC with RISC OS 6.1 I could not load a PNG > file into OPro there either. Well... RO 6.10 here and PNG do load into Ov pro. As Mr P notes, I have my TransFSI.Setup file modified to work with PNGs. But when Mr P makes modifications to TransFSI I have to remember to redo the setup file. Set File$Type-B60 PNG And below the default Set FFGServer line... Set FFGServer$TransFSI_2 -T &B60 &FF9 -R TransFSI$Dir Dave S -- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 11:33:17 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBlE7-3Cuknw-07-D7g.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:33:17 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBlE7-3Cuknw-07-D7g; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:45:03 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBlE7-3Cuknw-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:45:03 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBlE7-0000ja-CZ for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:45:03 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D8B63864533; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32043-06; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A64F6863D69; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:45:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:44:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A5F6C864533 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:44:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31997-02 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:44:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.177]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 49213863E68 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 02:44:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bach (88-134-110-250-dynip.superkabel.de [88.134.110.250]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu2) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKwtQ-1KBlDT11Zm-0006Pz; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:44:23 +0200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Import To: Ovation software list From: Martin Wuerthner X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:44:45 +0200 Message-ID: <99685cb54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> References: <4862EA9B.9030900@internode.on.net> In-Reply-To: <4862EA9B.9030900@internode.on.net> X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+wLGeHnKccKqy7FVM4T3I3/uO+F2QG4jJvuPf qNFQ3Om1stmp0MLiPP+izbsh8tMTWss7e8DzNY8gXR7tEX7u0i uwZIgrTLLLe7n/V9Cmc+KSy+2zQnu2u X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 882 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: public@mw-software.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=5_iS8uEXKSuU3dAg0FQA:9 a=LnQ7AQ372X8fgrAEQA0A:7 a=urYBLGgFDqao_6RIAzDdB_L-37AA:4 a=fl4ZfBcLCrEA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] In message <4862EA9B.9030900@internode.on.net> Peter Prewett wrote: > One thing I miss in Ovation W is the ability to import Xara .xar files > is there any chance that a filter could be produced? A filter? No way. The .xar format is proprietory and there is no other format its advanced graphical effects could be converted into anyway. Is OPW not able to do OLE2? That should allow it to directly embed any kind of file from other OLE compliant applications, e.g., Word, Excel, Xara Xtreme, etc. without the need for a filter. Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 11:33:18 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBlU1-3ofknw-03-Crm.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:33:18 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBlU1-3ofknw-03-Crm; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:01:29 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBlU1-3ofknw-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:01:29 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBlU1-0003fb-21 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:01:29 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 88C7A864D47; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 03:01:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00656-05; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 03:01:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 55CD7864DB4; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 03:01:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 03:00:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9AEE4864D47 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 03:00:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00535-08 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 03:00:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ptb-relay01.plus.net (ptb-relay01.plus.net [212.159.14.212]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6631A864CA2 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 03:00:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [84.92.97.176] (helo=greatest) by ptb-relay01.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1KBlTN-0003dk-3W for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:00:49 +0100 Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:54:34 +0100 From: Tim Powys-Lybbe To: Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro Message-ID: References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb44bb643dave@triffid.co.uk> <06cc18b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb5229bb2dave@triffid.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb5229bb2dave@triffid.co.uk> X-Organization: South Farm, Calstone, Calne, Wilts, England (no house here!) User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Plusnet-Relay: 17700c724d438fed0ddd24deff4acc05 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 883 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: tim@powys.org Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=v6Aic-fSAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=cvZ18kj5OkhC5v808vwA:9 a=FZ_cBtruAeHTKWSDd9kA:7 a=rAGpBN59optwdebr_O3WZ75dtAwA:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] In message of 25 Jun, Dave Symes wrote: > In article <06cc18b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>, > Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: > [Snippy] > > So I tried another PNG. And it still failed, presumably because it > > won't load into the RISC OS version. >=20 > > Might you, perhcance, be using Windows? >=20 > Tim, > Though I do have and use OvPro for Windows, in this case using OvPro fo= r > RISC OS. >=20 > It's all down to RO Select, we can do much more with the larger range o= f > graphic filters that the recent Select version have. >=20 > I hadn't looked at your posting header until now, and see you are using > 5.13 that means an Iyo and no Select. I still cannot load PNG files into OPro on RISC OS 6.10. I have made sure that all relevant Trans applets are loaded. The same PNG file loads fine into DplngScan on that machine. --=20 Tim Powys-Lybbe=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0tim@pow= ys.org =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0For a miscellany of bygones: http:= //powys.org/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpill= ing From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 11:33:19 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBnAA-0XAGPo-03-BBd.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:33:19 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBnAA-0XAGPo-03-BBd; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:49:06 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBnAA-0XAGPo-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:49:06 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBnAA-00027M-Ay for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:49:06 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D2F4C86443E; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:49:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07693-09; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:49:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9EFF7863EAE; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:49:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:48:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D068A86443E for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07526-09 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pih-relay08.plus.net (pih-relay08.plus.net [212.159.14.134]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 90264864410 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [80.229.238.131] (helo=ASCENSION) by pih-relay08.plus.net with esmtpa (Exim) id 1KBn9W-00011I-36 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:48:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ned Abell To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:44:45 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) Message-ID: <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 Content-Type: text/plain X-Plusnet-Relay: 2084b8bea9c856f09bfa6c9d67b93af1 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 884 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=lxA9Khgz2c9D_dYRzU4A:9 a=bmW-3TNYRSflE-Q6b9sA:7 a=rU-btQ7DfEEaETljNIL-Phx6OHoA:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=HURXEEAAiz4A:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] On 25 Jun, Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: > In message of 25 Jun, Roger Foden wrote: > > Is anyone using OvPro via VRPC on a Mac? > Yes. Works OK but not given it a real thrash; that will > have to wait until I get a bit nearer to a total migration > to Mac which will then run all of Mac, Risc OS, Ubuntu and, > if all else fails, Windows. But this will need a much > beefier machine than my present Mini. This thread seems to have wandered off topic from my original posting. The main reason I started it was to see if a _native_ Linux version was now more feasable. Scribus and Passepartout are the main free competition. Theres PageStream which was developed from an Atari program and is commercial. However David seems not to have tried his Linux box which in my view is a pity as my experience of part-migrating to Ubuntu Linux has been very positive. I now supply Ubuntu computers to new users because of cost, the ease of use and stabillity and a native OPro as an option would be very advantagous. -- besters.. Ned === skype:nedabell To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 11:33:19 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBnDS-0onGPo-07-B8L.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:33:19 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBnDS-0onGPo-07-B8L; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:52:30 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBnDS-0onGPo-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:52:30 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBnDR-0006r9-Su for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 08:52:30 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6D8B2863EAF; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:52:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08111-08; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:52:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2C4998645A1; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:52:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:51:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C1D93863EAF for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:51:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08046-02 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:51:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ptb-relay03.plus.net (ptb-relay03.plus.net [212.159.14.214]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8348A86449C for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 04:51:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [84.92.97.176] (helo=greatest) by ptb-relay03.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1KBnCm-0001sg-34 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:51:48 +0100 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:37:41 +0100 From: Tim Powys-Lybbe To: Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro Message-ID: <67bf66b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb44bb643dave@triffid.co.uk> <06cc18b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb5201e3echris@chrisjohnson.plus.com> <81ef23b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb55ad922dave@triffid.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb55ad922dave@triffid.co.uk> X-Organization: South Farm, Calstone, Calne, Wilts, England (no house here!) User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Plusnet-Relay: f7290f0447c91af77a1d74d54290647d X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 885 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: tim@powys.org Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=v6Aic-fSAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=PaAmtgDiSF5kPtt-Jq0A:9 a=coYHjGkkRVlp6cHI000A:7 a=D1xJMkpqhzWxOKqUDXjKUe0-IrwA:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1517] In message of 26 Jun, Dave Symes wrote: > In article <81ef23b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>, > Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: >=20 > > And surprise, surprise on my RPC with RISC OS 6.1 I could not load a = PNG > > file into OPro there either. >=20 > Well... RO 6.10 here and PNG do load into Ov pro. >=20 > As Mr P notes, I have my TransFSI.Setup file modified to work with PNGs= . > But when Mr P makes modifications to TransFSI I have to remember to red= o > the setup file. >=20 > Set File$Type-B60 PNG >=20 > And below the default Set FFGServer line... > Set FFGServer$TransFSI_2 -T &B60 &FF9 -R TransFSI$Dir Thanks for that. It indeed works. However the interesting thing is in the statistics. The original Sprite file was 256K The sprite-converted-to PNG file is 43K The OPro document loaded with the PNG file is: 493K The OPro document loaded with the sprite file is: 341K This bears out my original statement that the best way of assembling document copies in OPro is by loading sprites and, for preference, loading them by Reference. The process of loading, though, can take ages but I have yet to investigate doing this by the mail merge facilities. --=20 Tim Powys-Lybbe=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0tim@pow= ys.org =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0For a miscellany of bygones: http:= //powys.org/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpill= ing From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 11:47:55 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBozh-259knw-08-9M6.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:47:55 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBozh-259knw-08-9M6; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:46:25 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBozh-259knw-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:46:25 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBozh-0005ei-Cc for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:46:25 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 78C60864513; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:46:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17436-01; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:46:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 41D7C864234; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:46:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:45:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3BEAE864C92 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 05:34:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11320-03 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 05:34:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx5.orcon.net.nz (mx5.orcon.net.nz [219.88.242.55]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B879A864C6E for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 05:34:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Debian-exim by mx5.orcon.net.nz with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KBnsT-000599-KG for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:34:53 +1200 Received: from [60.234.184.59] (helo=mysteriousmrf.my.home) by mx5.orcon.net.nz with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1KBnsT-00058J-0u for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:34:53 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Robert Greenfield To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:31:25 +1200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) Content-Type: text/plain X-DSPAM-Check: by mx5.orcon.net.nz on Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:34:53 +1200 X-DSPAM-Result: Innocent X-DSPAM-Processed: Thu Jun 26 21:34:53 2008 X-DSPAM-Confidence: 0.8509 X-DSPAM-Probability: 0.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 886 X-Approved-By: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: monster@caverock.net.nz Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=an63MGxJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=MOmi7e8wpYh0dkeOwx0A:9 a=cplS_MdKm9JbWA8pyQMA:7 a=iZ-Mup8_VApC46i9YxpaUc0XEv4A:4 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] On 25 Jun, David Pilling wrote: > Viable here means the number of users. You can do a great deal with the > program. > >What are you comparing OvPro to for these 'basic requirements', and what > >audience would require these 'basic requirements'? > What does a long term Windows user want, and what does it take to > compete with and surpass other programs. At my work (a school), most Windows users want to use what is supplied with the computer; that is Word, that is. They use Word to draw circles (no, really!) They use Word to attempt to adjust text boxes to be in a perfect position, and they get frustrated when it won't. The majority of Windows users that I have met haven't bought (hardly) any extra software. My wife is one. At one point she commented to me something along the lines of 'you seem to buy a lot of software'. The last comment aside, imagine if OvPro could load average people's Word docs, allow them to create and place 'text boxes' *exactly* where they want, draw and position simple shapes exactly so that they don't look like cack in a document. People at school appear to be impressed that I can create .pdf files. Is this built into OvPro for Windows? Average users would like that. They might even enjoy using OvPro. Noone I know likes using Word. > >> having added A they then turn around and say "do you seriously expect > >> me to use a program that lacks feature B". > >That is pretty rubbish of them. > I think it just shows that DTP programs have many features. Were these 'average' users? > >There are inexpensive/free ways of letting people know about the service > >that your software can provide. > That is interesting, what are they? (my comment was made with Impression docs at schools in mind so...) Here in NZ there is a nationwide magazine which every school receives (The Education Gazette). Apple NZ often advertises in there. A direct email or letter to schools. What about the www? I've just done some searches for loading 'impression acorn on windows' and similar and not come up with anything. Why doesn't your website come up here? regards, -- Robert Greenfield via RISC OS - http://www.webmonster.co.nz/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 12:02:56 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBp3k-2Q4knw-06-9I3.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:02:56 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBp3k-2Q4knw-06-9I3; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:36 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBp3k-2Q4knw-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:36 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBp3k-0001gf-8o for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:50:36 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id ADBDC864504; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17774-05; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 821CD86435A; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:50:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:49:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8A697864504 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17706-01 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:49:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.87]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 51DFA8643E4 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) id 1KBp31-0007LJ-Oy for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:49:52 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:48:34 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Ovation W to pdf References: <4861B963.2040201@internode.on.net> <$6SVHmCesqYIFw+1@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4862CF53.8090407@internode.on.net> In-Reply-To: <4862CF53.8090407@internode.on.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 887 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=guZDv20eFFoA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=uKcWibMuFyVy4hphwI8A:9 a=uFPxrPWgcpG9TiktgGQA:7 a=SqUWucRlTKtSP6WT5dtpNwJHEpYA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] In message <4862CF53.8090407@internode.on.net>, Peter Prewett writes >Ovation Windows but the picture itself was drawn as a sprite and had a >mask That is a troublesome area... >displays correctly in Ovation Pro but it is the conversion to pdf from >Ovation that the mask gets converted to black. I'd suggest configuring your copy of Ovation Pro for Windows to use "direct PostScript" Misc->Choices->Print then print to PDF again. It is hard to summarise the situation on Windows with regards to transparency. On classic windows there is no support, and you do it by eor'ing bitmaps, the PostScript drivers don't support this. As with RISC OS there are two major classes of printer drivers meta file and PostScript. Now no doubt transparency support has appeared over the years, but that doesn't mean printer drivers have been upgraded to understand it. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 12:02:56 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBpAC-2vZknw-04-9Bb.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:02:56 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBpAC-2vZknw-04-9Bb; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:57:16 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBpAC-2vZknw-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:57:16 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBpA9-0004vg-TV for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:57:15 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 52C338646F1; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18172-04; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 14D02864846; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:56:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 386618646F1 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:56:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18034-10 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:56:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 038A786472C for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:56:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KBp9U-000FRQ-J6 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:56:33 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:55:17 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb44bb643dave@triffid.co.uk> <06cc18b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb5201e3echris@chrisjohnson.plus.com> <81ef23b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb55ad922dave@triffid.co.uk> <67bf66b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <67bf66b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 888 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=t2iPaigqJp9ae_2UhwQA:9 a=QtUMVsk5jz-m8r0MBToA:7 a=-X6RGIC-Auc4MIaWwl-u6Wb7AfAA:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] In message <67bf66b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk>, Tim Powys-Lybbe writes > The original Sprite file was 256K > The sprite-converted-to PNG file is 43K > > The OPro document loaded with the PNG file is: 493K > The OPro document loaded with the sprite file is: 341K > >This bears out my original statement that the best way of assembling >document copies in OPro is by loading sprites and, for preference, >loading them by Reference. If you get the ChangeFSI settings right then you should be able to get the sprite you set off with back - i.e. no memory overhead. However I've always found it tricky to get the ChangeFSI settings right - from memory I think it tends to convert to whatever the current screen mode is. The "Transloaders" are not applets. They only need to be (in RISC OS terminology) "seen" i.e. have their !Boot file executed. As has been discussed previously, putting them in your Applets folder will do little harm. Transloaders were invented by Computer Concepts and are sort of mini-applications/tasks. When I did OP, I made things simpler by writing a small program that does all the RISC OS task stuff and calls a command line program to do the conversion. So if you have any command line image conversion tools that would do a better job than ChangeFSI, it is simple to convert them into transloaders - look at how TransFSI calls up ChangeFSI. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 12:02:56 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBpCG-354knw-04-99X.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:02:56 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBpCG-354knw-04-99X; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:59:24 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBpCG-354knw-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:59:24 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBpCG-00051M-9e for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:59:24 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D1CAF8647E7; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18392-04; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A4A63864A4B; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:58:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A7A178647E7 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:58:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18246-07 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:58:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 761EF8646F1 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 06:58:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KBpBb-0003HO-Dn for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:58:43 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:56:57 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Import References: <4862EA9B.9030900@internode.on.net> <99685cb54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> In-Reply-To: <99685cb54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 889 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=qInVw--bF8Mu4uUVu3oA:9 a=fwdWlhHSV_wifKEIfcQA:7 a=yw2gVVhNZlYnR8Lz20EsM9nLyxIA:4 a=fl4ZfBcLCrEA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] In message <99685cb54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin Wuerthner writes >Is OPW not able to do OLE2? That should allow it to directly embed any >kind of file from other OLE compliant applications, e.g., Word, Excel, >Xara Xtreme, etc. without the need for a filter. No, OPW can't do OLE2. This is one of the long list of things that must be done to make the program generally useful on Windows. It would bring with it a lot of problems like does one attempt to provide image processing, if not what happens to colour separations, what about direct PostScript rendering. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From ecartis@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 12:02:56 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBpD6-38Rknw-07-98h.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:02:56 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBpD6-38Rknw-07-98h; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:00:16 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBpD6-38Rknw-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:00:16 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBpD5-00040G-0Q for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:00:16 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8D00C864A4F for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18392-06 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6289886490D for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:00:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling-moderators@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling-moderators@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 386FF864A4F for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18372-08 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1695186490D for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from freelists.org by freelists.org (ECARTIS/1.0.0); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:00:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:00:14 -0400 (EDT) From: FreeLists Mailing List Manager Reply-To: ovationpro@orpheusmail.co.uk To: davidpilling-moderators@freelists.org Message-ID: X-ecartis-antiloop: freelists.org Precedence: list Subject: davidpilling: ovationpro@orpheusmail.co.uk post needs approval X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=ULO6YoN1HBAA:10 a=L35J8V8nMn0A:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=FQ5rvkYChYpRjhhiszMA:9 a=8xYE0h7azhxgWaINKJEA:7 a=BF-0daS9utuPJDcDIhJnfupIumYA:4 a=btyeseNR-KIA:10 a=fl4ZfBcLCrEA:10 a=XF7b4UCPwd8A:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] This message was received for a list you are a moderator on, and was marked for moderation due to the following reason: Non-member submission to closed-post list. To approve this message and have it go out on the list, forward this to davidpilling-repost@freelists.org If you wish to decline the post, change the 'apppost' below to 'delpost'. If you wish to edit the post, change it to 'modpost' and edit the message as needed - not all mail programs will work with modpost. DO NOT DELETE THE FOLLOWING LINE. Ecartis needs it. // apppost 486376BE:47F0.1:qnivqcvyyvat >From ovationpro@orpheusmail.co.uk Thu Jun 26 07:00:13 2008 Return-Path: X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DEB38864A4F for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18367-09 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (zen.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.18]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 940EE86490D for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 192.168.123.1 ([88.202.209.176]) by zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id m5QAxuEE008045 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:00:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Ovation Pro) To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:03:13 +0100 X-Organization: Orpheusmail, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: Posty - Voyager Email 1.41 for RISC OS 4.39 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Re: Import Message-Id: <2454644.113135-ovationpro@orpheusmail.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <99685cb54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain On Thu 26 Jun 2008 (08:44:45 +0200), public@mw-software.com wrote: >s OPW not able to do OLE2? That should allow it to directly embed any >kind of file from other OLE compliant applications, e.g., Word, Excel, >Xara Xtreme, etc. without the need for a filter. > WORD import would help me enormously - How complex is OLE2? John -- _ ________________________________________ /_| _ _ _ /| /_ _/_ /' / || (_|(_)/ |/(/_/_ / The Internet Experts ________) ___________./ ovationpro@orpheusmail.co.uk // eompost 486376BE:47F0.1:qnivqcvyyvat From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 12:17:58 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBpTs-4NWknw-01-8rv.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:17:58 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBpTs-4NWknw-01-8rv; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:17:36 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBpTs-4NWknw-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:17:36 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBpTo-0002qi-T4 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:17:36 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 42668863C9B; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:17:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19522-04; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:17:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1494286424F; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:17:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:16:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D4BE2863C9B for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:16:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19440-06 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:16:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp01.altohiway.com (smtp01.altohiway.com [195.12.4.238]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6884F863C48 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:16:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from websrv.quantel.com ([195.12.20.34]) by smtp01.altohiway.com (8.13.6/8.13.7) with ESMTP id m5QBGfsu021380 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:16:41 +0100 In-Reply-To: <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:16:34 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 890 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: Andy.Ling@Quantel.Com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=qQECp5_lzBm77eoeH1gA:9 a=cxQ-YI0xw4tv37QoxuYA:7 a=tnm3cajT_8q4jCigGSi01n9__RoA:4 a=Dqp-bWOt5EsA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] Rob Greenfield wrote on 26/06/2008 10:31:25: > People at school appear to be impressed that I can create .pdf files. Is > this built into OvPro for Windows? Average users would like that. Generating PDF on windows is almost trivial. There are many free bits of software like PDFCreator that create a new printer. If you print to it then a window pops up to save a PDF file. These may not be perfect print shop quality PDF files, but they work well as a standard exchange format. Most use the GNU ps and PDF stuff. So are similar to some of the tools on RISC OS > They might even enjoy using OvPro. Noone I know likes using Word. > I am being encouraged (forced) to use Word at work. I spent hours yesterday trying to work out how to generate and use a template. It is not a nice piece of software. It is just widely used. Just like Windows. Andy Ling -- This e-mail is intended for the named addressees only. Its contents may be privileged or confidential and should be treated as such. If you are not an intended recipient please notify the sender immediately; do not copy, distribute, or take any action based on this e-mail; and then delete it. In the pursuit of its legitimate business activities and its conformance with relevant legislation, Quantel Ltd. may access any e-mail (including attachments) it originates and receives, for potential scrutiny. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 12:32:57 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBpWh-4avknw-06-8p6.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:32:57 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBpWh-4avknw-06-8p6; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:20:31 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBpWh-4avknw-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:20:31 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBpWg-0005Mv-VS for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:20:31 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7724C86422E; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:20:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19670-04; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:20:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3C60986471C; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:20:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:19:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 32A5386422E for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:19:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19574-02 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:19:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com (smtp5.freeserve.com [193.252.22.128]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EE87F864200 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:19:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3406.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id C1B681C00084 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:19:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from rachael.local (unknown [91.111.9.90]) by mwinf3406.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 3840C1C00083 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:19:50 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20080626111950230.3840C1C00083@mwinf3406.me.freeserve.com From: Mark Fraser To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:20:00 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.9 References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200806261220.00451.freelists@mfraz74.orangehome.co.uk> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 891 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: freelists@mfraz74.orangehome.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=T0erQ7OjJBk5n-V6gUcA:9 a=s6VLURXn937uPwwaSvwA:7 a=ADQ4LTgS7DDICIz8K7OG8JJdU30A:4 a=wl_QvbsadU8A:10 a=HURXEEAAiz4A:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] On Thursday 26 June 2008 09:44:45 Ned Abell wrote: > On 25 Jun, Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: > > In message of 25 Jun, Roger Foden wrote: > > > Is anyone using OvPro via VRPC on a Mac? > > > > Yes. Works OK but not given it a real thrash; that will > > have to wait until I get a bit nearer to a total migration > > to Mac which will then run all of Mac, Risc OS, Ubuntu and, > > if all else fails, Windows. But this will need a much > > beefier machine than my present Mini. > > This thread seems to have wandered off topic from my original > posting. The main reason I started it was to see if a _native_ > Linux version was now more feasable. I would also like to see a native Linux version of OP, possibly using the QT3/4 toolkits. > Scribus and Passepartout are the main free competition. Theres > PageStream which was developed from an Atari program and is > commercial. I have tried using Scribus, but have hard to use and extremely slow at updating the screen compared to Ovation Pro under Wine. > However David seems not to have tried his Linux box which in > my view is a pity as my experience of part-migrating to Ubuntu > Linux has been very positive. I have now completely moved over to Kubuntu, there are no Windows or RISC OS machines running in this household. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 13:02:58 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBq8H-2PxVbs-03-Gk2.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:02:58 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBq8H-2PxVbs-03-Gk2; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:59:21 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBq8H-2PxVbs-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:59:21 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBq8G-00031Y-LS for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:59:20 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2A7D986479C; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:59:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23167-08; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:59:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 00FE986491C; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:58:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 002C186479C for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23090-06 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.188]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9B50A86461E for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 07:58:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bach (88-134-110-250-dynip.superkabel.de [88.134.110.250]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu0) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0MKwh2-1KBq7Y3uK7-0006eX; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:58:39 +0200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Martin Wuerthner X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:58:25 +0200 Message-ID: <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX19swg5EW4pmVZdBZp/s39O1UyDDouY0d3INBL7 fcUSahon6ciVkT7WuNeStkpwUzlbNE9TOopfydiKpYcKJo2N85 X3Pc8grzibe+w5FYI073v14XiYjTvlW X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 892 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: public@mw-software.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=aAK2wBq8GVO9jHG5VZ4A:9 a=S2wkSzAm3FqAaBvFrrEA:7 a=gPvb0Rquoqlo_jQouKn990qIf7MA:4 a=fl4ZfBcLCrEA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] In message <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> Ned Abell wrote: > [...] > This thread seems to have wandered off topic from my original > posting. The main reason I started it was to see if a _native_ > Linux version was now more feasable. So, has anything changed compared to back then that would prompt a reassessment of the situation? Is there any reason to believe that the reasoning done in 2006 is no longer valid today? Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From ovationpro@orpheusmail.co.uk Thu Jun 26 13:02:58 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBq90-2TqVbs-04-GjJ.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:02:58 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBq90-2TqVbs-04-GjJ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:00:06 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBq90-2TqVbs-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:00:06 +0000 Received: from [194.93.128.18] (helo=zen.orpheusnet.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBq8y-00064O-D8 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:00:06 +0000 Received: from 192.168.123.1 ([88.202.209.176]) by zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with SMTP id m5QBxp8H008810 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:59:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Ovation Pro) To: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:46:09 +0100 X-Organization: Orpheusmail, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: Posty - Voyager Email 1.41 for RISC OS 4.39 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Re: Import Message-Id: <2454644.124696-ovationpro@orpheusmail.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=rVLputm6g1GECCfWM0qrZA==:17 a=ckQhJdgkObKsvYwVRg8A:9 a=KqoWiqE4IZ99SXd6SISPvZlmsBQA:4 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] On Thu 26 Jun 2008 (11:56:57 +0100), flist@pilling.demon.co.uk wrote: >It would bring with it a lot of problems like does one attempt to >provide image processing, if not what happens to colour separations, >what about direct PostScript rendering. > 1) Why not stick with conversion to text, sprite and/or jpeg etc and rely on the existing image processing? Then have one reverse output to say word and jpeg or windows bitmap? After all MSoft are not famous for exporting in useful formats - this would be a huge step forward. 2) We do a great deal of printing from OPro on windows (often from WORD etc originals - see my previous posting) and, so far, have not needed direct Postscript rendering. John -- _ ________________________________________ /_| _ _ _ /| /_ _/_ /' / || (_|(_)/ |/(/_/_ / The Internet Experts ________) ___________./ ovationpro@orpheusmail.co.uk From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 14:17:59 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBrFM-2ODGPo-06-Fcx.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:17:59 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBrFM-2ODGPo-06-Fcx; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:10:44 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBrFM-2ODGPo-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:10:44 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBrFM-0000Kb-2Z for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:10:44 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 92A5C864B3E; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:10:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29526-01; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:10:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 669EA864A57; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:10:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:10:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8F2D1864649 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:10:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29448-02 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:10:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5D9BA864556 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:10:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KBrEi-0003gP-0O for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:10:04 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:51:49 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro Message-ID: <4fb57e0389john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb44bb643dave@triffid.co.uk> <06cc18b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb5201e3echris@chrisjohnson.plus.com> <81ef23b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb55ad922dave@triffid.co.uk> <67bf66b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/6.10) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 893 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: john@cartmell.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=fKTeoBIvAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=7F68rVtnoEr44nmdgtUA:9 a=CwJKyh8jXdyGxwu57UUA:7 a=Sq6AseZ5KLoqJlk2-gXxVtRTuKMA:4 a=J70dMskYxoEA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] On 26 Jun, David Pilling wrote: > The "Transloaders" are not applets. They only need to be (in RISC OS > terminology) "seen" i.e. have their !Boot file executed. As has been > discussed previously, putting them in your Applets folder will do little > harm. Can you give a list of all the Transloaders and the latest versions? -- John Cartmell john@finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 or 0161 969 9820 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.qercus.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 14:48:04 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBrcz-18c000-04-FFK.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:48:04 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBrcz-18c000-04-FFK; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:35:09 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBrcz-18c000-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:35:09 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBrcy-0002qB-8M for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:35:09 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 467CD864C0E; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:35:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32139-04; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:35:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 17E2D864B48; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:35:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:34:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B34D5864C36 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:34:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31819-06 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:34:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0A1FC864C2A for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:34:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KBrcF-0003Ie-Bw for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:34:23 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:32:07 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb44bb643dave@triffid.co.uk> <06cc18b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb5201e3echris@chrisjohnson.plus.com> <81ef23b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb55ad922dave@triffid.co.uk> <67bf66b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb57e0389john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb57e0389john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 894 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=d9frsj0YAAAA:8 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=-iEqbKPQ-Z2ZJxAUxXAA:9 a=fQ2ZGpGb3RTyiN9yaGAA:7 a=sd0Et7SpfTp2Bf4sb6ENpo8sOM4A:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] In message <4fb57e0389john@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, John Cartmell writes >On 26 Jun, David Pilling wrote: >> The "Transloaders" are not applets. They only need to be (in RISC OS >> terminology) "seen" i.e. have their !Boot file executed. As has been >> discussed previously, putting them in your Applets folder will do little >> harm. > >Can you give a list of all the Transloaders and the latest versions? See: http://www.davidpilling.com/ovationpro/resource.html Bear in mind others can produce these things. Computer Concepts did some originally, then there was a third party range (their name escapes me for now). -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 15:33:06 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBsK4-4Gq000-04-EYF.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:33:06 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBsK4-4Gq000-04-EYF; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:19:40 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBsK4-4Gq000-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:19:40 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBsJz-0004Ce-Tq for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:19:40 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 68783864AAE; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:19:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04217-03; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:19:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 326AE864747; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:19:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:18:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 49E6286455A for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:18:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04068-10 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:18:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.87]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 16B3E863BDE for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:18:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) id 1KBsJL-0005ab-OH for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:18:56 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:17:33 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> In-Reply-To: <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 895 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=5qGn6tZqIiDXPAddKfsA:9 a=lqvKhxD7UcdH1-0HpxEA:7 a=cvXyMpIEBm7woH7q6s3kbcijZ7kA:4 a=fl4ZfBcLCrEA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] In message <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin Wuerthner writes >> posting. The main reason I started it was to see if a _native_ >> Linux version was now more feasable. >So, has anything changed compared to back then that would prompt a >reassessment of the situation? Is there any reason to believe that the >reasoning done in 2006 is no longer valid today? Well, I have fallen out with Windows since then. On a negative note, my time for programming is much less than a couple of years ago (which is why I've not turned on the Linux machine). It was worth asking about Linux. If one wants a DTP package for Linux, would there be any reason to stick rigidly to Ovation Pro as it is today. If someone came along and said "write us a DTP package" and I was setting off from scratch, I could do a much better job. Not surprising after nearly 20 years experience and in the light of progress in the world in general. Maintaining compatibility with Ovation Pro for RISC OS did limit things. Of course if I'd not done that I would probably have sold no copies at all. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 15:48:02 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBsX9-0Y3knw-04-ELA.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:48:02 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBsX9-0Y3knw-04-ELA; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:33:11 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBsX9-0Y3knw-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:33:11 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBsX4-0001Ae-8C for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:33:10 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 68E24864EA6; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06036-10; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 38C9F864EC4; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:32:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C59AE864EA6 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:32:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05790-06 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:32:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relay.freeuk.net (relay.freeuk.net [212.126.144.54]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7505A864EA1 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:32:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from du-003-0218.freeuk.com ([212.126.145.218] helo=bbailey.freeuk.com.) by relay.freeuk.net with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1KBsVy-000FsL-74 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:32:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Brian Bailey To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:29:13 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb586ee75bbailey@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb4aa47f8bbailey@argonet.co.uk> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4880549bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4fb4aa47f8bbailey@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 896 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: bbailey@argonet.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=7wCJgDKhZSl-AvtmbG0A:9 a=zA4wqB-rQ1I727kyUgwA:7 a=HNFNuevA8ocen6g1I_jhh_6YUMMA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] In article <4fb4aa47f8bbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Bailey wrote: [snip] > Speaking personally, I can see a very real need to export OvatProW files > in QuarkXpress or InDesign format. Now, is that possible, is that a > reality that David could address and extend OvatProW usefulness and make > it much more flexible? I note no response. However, whilst noting that DDL has been mentioned I wonder if, alternatively, XML is a possibility, whilst admitting I know next to nowt about that format, I see that both QuarkXpress and InDesign permit import/export in that format. It seems to me that flexibility, cross platform, for further development of OvatPro is possibly the only way forward. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 16:03:02 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBsmj-1fPknw-02-E5a.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:03:02 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBsmj-1fPknw-02-E5a; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:49:17 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBsmj-1fPknw-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:49:17 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBsmi-0002nd-1J for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:49:17 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8A88C864B2A; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:49:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08019-06; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:49:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5F530864B82; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:49:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:48:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7F7A5864B2A for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:48:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07917-04 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:48:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3552B864B29 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:48:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panther (backup.vigay.com [82.163.120.21]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m5QEmEhO019145 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:48:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Vigay To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:48:28 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) Message-ID: <4fb588b191lists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 X-No-Archive: yes Sensitivity: Private Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 897 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists-nospam@vigay.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=0xqhCTqKAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=ACAAxVNQq6_NofUNSJMA:9 a=0_lG4p-Gf61Vo66B_pUA:7 a=nH5Rcl-OaTAoPeXMqks1SPRQf9AA:4 a=4SztSTlPBk4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] In a dim and distant universe , David Pilling enlightened us thusly: > It was worth asking about Linux. If one wants a DTP package for Linux, > would there be any reason to stick rigidly to Ovation Pro as it is today. The think to bear in mind with Linux, is that most software is a labour of love. No one much sells software for Linux - or should I say, no one *buys* software for Linux. Paul Vigay Editor, www.RISCOS.org -- Using, programming and promoting RISC OS - the most productive computer system in the world. Check it out now, and change your view of computers!! To reply/email, visit http://www.riscos.org/feedback/ To succeed in politics, it is often necessary to rise above your principles. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 18:03:06 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBun6-0mDGPo-06-C5D.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:03:06 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBun6-0mDGPo-06-C5D; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:57:48 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBun6-0mDGPo-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:57:48 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBun6-0001hy-KJ for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:57:48 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2417C864EC6; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:57:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23813-02; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:57:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EDA70864EAD; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:57:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:57:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2A65B864EC6 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23667-08 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:57:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ptb-relay02.plus.net (ptb-relay02.plus.net [212.159.14.213]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E7800864EC4 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:57:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [80.229.143.2] (helo=radstock.localdomain) by ptb-relay02.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1KBumR-0002vc-Ee for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:57:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Chris Johnson To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:57:05 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) Message-ID: <4fb5947807chris@chrisjohnson.plus.com> In-Reply-To: <4fb588b191lists-nospam@vigay.com> References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <4fb588b191lists-nospam@vigay.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) Content-Type: text/plain X-Plusnet-Relay: a2867d26d9dad7cfb9708d0893cdffaa X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 898 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: chris@chrisjohnson.plus.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=v1w3f2WrElx1kXZWAN8A:9 a=Hj-QEssvN9TGCWnQiucA:7 a=BjhCC1IqVbdOwidl8twSclmqeDkA:4 a=MVlnOHnAQ0oA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] In article <4fb588b191lists-nospam@vigay.com>, Paul Vigay wrote: > The think to bear in mind with Linux, is that most software is a > labour of love. No one much sells software for Linux - or should I > say, no one *buys* software for Linux. There is also the scenario of freely available software, but paid for help and support, although even that could be very time consuming for little return. -- Chris Johnson To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 18:18:07 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBv62-1qsGPo-02-BmH.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:18:07 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBv62-1qsGPo-02-BmH; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:17:22 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBv62-1qsGPo-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:17:22 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBv61-0005Q4-Ro for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:17:22 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5ADC2864532; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:17:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27153-06; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:17:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 232DF86454B; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:17:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:16:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 37B27864532 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:16:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27047-10 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:16:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp1.es.uci.edu (smtp1.es.uci.edu [128.200.80.34]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EC727864117 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:16:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [128.200.31.32] (magnet.ps.uci.edu [128.200.31.32]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp1.es.uci.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id m5QHGeUl014688 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:16:41 -0700 X-UCInetID: dennison Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:16:38 -0700 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Phil Dennison Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 899 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: dennison@uci.edu Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=qJNfFR1O0jIdoJh3SAUA:9 a=rnVhdLWdhEC5DkBvggMA:7 a=1vv_oFKSR0bmxUF-hQ6MwNIwsbcA:4 a=NBezdvVAfooA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] >People at school appear to be impressed that I can create .pdf files. Is >this built into OvPro for Windows? Average users would like that. >They might even enjoy using OvPro. Noone I know likes using Word. > I think that last statement says a lot. A large proportion of Windows users have never used anything else. In their heads, what a computer can do is synonymous with what their computer can do. Many use Word like a typewriter, and have no idea of the difference between, say, a text file and a Word document. Those of us who have used minority platform are aware of all kinds of issues which just seem complicated to a Windows only person. People don't like Word, but most have it and use it and don't even consider an alternative might exist. My main complaint against Microsoft/Windows is that it lowers peoples expectations of what a computer can do. In terms of reliability, complexity and quality of output. I have no idea on how an excellent product like OPW could reach a mass (or even moderately large) Windows market under these conditions. A real niche usage for a smaller number of high-paying commercial users might work, but I don't know if this exists. I mainly use Word on a Mac these days. I hate it, but an important part of my job is creating documents with contributions from a selection of people who all use Word. It is problematic enough dealing with Windows Mac user's parts and the various methods people use to create diagrams and references. Phil Dennison -- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 18:33:08 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBv82-1yrGPo-08-BkH.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:33:08 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBv82-1yrGPo-08-BkH; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:19:26 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBv82-1yrGPo-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:19:26 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBv81-0004nX-79 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:19:26 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 95DBB864DBC; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27521-10-2; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3932C864BFF; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:18:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A5C2386471F for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:18:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27233-06 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:18:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6F3108646BA for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:18:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KBv7M-0006va-BE for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:18:44 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:52:46 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) Message-ID: <4fb58e94bajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/6.10) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 900 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: john@cartmell.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=fKTeoBIvAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=E1t9kMcrjAtVfWSAS_4A:9 a=d56lBQRPDW-eLuu90g4A:7 a=se1yuGVWhNtQGi3BIXX-E-GlXJIA:4 a=fl4ZfBcLCrEA:10 a=J70dMskYxoEA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] On 26 Jun, David Pilling wrote: > In message <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin Wuerthner > writes > >> posting. The main reason I started it was to see if a _native_ > >> Linux version was now more feasable. > >So, has anything changed compared to back then that would prompt a > >reassessment of the situation? Is there any reason to believe that the > >reasoning done in 2006 is no longer valid today? > Well, I have fallen out with Windows since then. On a negative note, my > time for programming is much less than a couple of years ago (which is > why I've not turned on the Linux machine). > It was worth asking about Linux. If one wants a DTP package for Linux, > would there be any reason to stick rigidly to Ovation Pro as it is > today. > If someone came along and said "write us a DTP package" and I was > setting off from scratch, I could do a much better job. Not surprising > after nearly 20 years experience and in the light of progress in the > world in general. > Maintaining compatibility with Ovation Pro for RISC OS did limit things. > Of course if I'd not done that I would probably have sold no copies at > all. Starting from scratch I'd be tempted to ask for a multi-platform (inc RISC OS!!) product that used a common file format and could import/export with Ovation Pro. It would differ from the others by being lean but with optional add-ons and allowed 3rd parties to produce add-ons. -- John Cartmell john@finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 or 0161 969 9820 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.qercus.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 18:33:08 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBv83-1y6GPo-06-BkG.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:33:08 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBv83-1y6GPo-06-BkG; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:19:27 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBv83-1y6GPo-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:19:27 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBv82-00078W-9C for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:19:27 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CA3CA864BFF; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27539-09; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A0A61864B8D; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:19:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:18:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C34D2864857 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:18:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27241-07 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:18:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8FEE286470F for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:18:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KBv7L-0006va-Ao for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:18:43 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:47:29 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Loading pictures into OPro Message-ID: <4fb58e189fjohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <9242dab34f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb44bb643dave@triffid.co.uk> <06cc18b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb5201e3echris@chrisjohnson.plus.com> <81ef23b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb55ad922dave@triffid.co.uk> <67bf66b54f.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <4fb57e0389john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/6.10) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 901 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: john@cartmell.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=05BhGNz0vVAA:10 a=ndaL82KW2GUA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=d9frsj0YAAAA:8 a=fKTeoBIvAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=qkSGrODBHYuNnBweunMA:9 a=S8pmhXLLeJADHHgfRIgA:7 a=4KmCyIcG1AtmD6JghdXUXRaL-DIA:4 a=J70dMskYxoEA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] On 26 Jun, David Pilling wrote: > In message <4fb57e0389john@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, John Cartmell > writes > >On 26 Jun, David Pilling wrote: > >> The "Transloaders" are not applets. They only need to be (in RISC OS > >> terminology) "seen" i.e. have their !Boot file executed. As has been > >> discussed previously, putting them in your Applets folder will do little > >> harm. > > > >Can you give a list of all the Transloaders and the latest versions? > See: > http://www.davidpilling.com/ovationpro/resource.html > Bear in mind others can produce these things. Computer Concepts did some > originally, then there was a third party range (their name escapes me > for now). Many thanks, -- John Cartmell john@finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 or 0161 969 9820 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.qercus.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 18:33:08 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBvC4-2D2GPo-08-BgF.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:33:08 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBvC4-2D2GPo-08-BgF; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:23:36 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBvC4-2D2GPo-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:23:36 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBvC3-0002yt-S2 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:23:36 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 41B80864B85; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27919-07; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 179E98646CD; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:22:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 65201864B85 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:22:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27832-03 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:22:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from alpha.arachsys.com (alpha.arachsys.com [91.203.57.7]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 33E81864A2E for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:22:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from i-195-137-122-84.freedom2surf.net ([195.137.122.84] helo=Iyo) by alpha.arachsys.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1KBvBN-0008UF-LQ for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:22:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Torrens (lists)" To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:22:26 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb596ca59Lists@torrens.org.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.12) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 902 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: Lists@torrens.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=v5zH91FgXxXi6H8nqjIA:9 a=LFCU4S7ON3aW5X_wTvYA:7 a=VDJE6OCRhVhZcrPn_X6AMRtW_hwA:4 a=oltf0pfCdT4A:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] Dave Have you ever considered getting O-Pro given away on a magazine disc? As it's time limited anyway, this could be a good advert. But I suspect you also need to supply a range of documents, or links to them on the www. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 19:33:09 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBwAF-2HF000-06-Ai4.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:33:09 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBwAF-2HF000-06-Ai4; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:25:47 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBwAF-2HF000-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:25:47 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBw9o-0002Dg-0l for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:25:47 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CF8268650FE; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:21:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04620-08; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:21:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6F55D865189; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:21:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:20:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 627CE865033 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04312-05 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.48]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 72BCF864F73 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:20:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080626182508.KOHL7070.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:25:08 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.100] (really [82.28.88.234]) by aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080626183017.XFRY8797.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[192.168.0.100]> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:30:17 +0100 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:18:03 +0100 From: Ray Dawson To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4fb58e94bajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <4fb58e94bajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: davidpilling@freelists.org X-Organization: MagRay User-Agent: Gemini/2.29l (Qt/3.3.8) (Windows-Vista) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 903 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: ray@raydawson.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=qYfdrFBzea3qfRxcxrMA:9 a=00Mlsmv9_QnevUMhCAUA:7 a=pb0HNQr5fnwSPpxoxbxTVk2PF2oA:4 a=zUBsD6tbDSsA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] John Cartmell wrote: > > Starting from scratch I'd be tempted to ask for a multi-platform (inc > RISC OS!!) product that used a common file format and could > import/export with Ovation Pro. It would differ from the others by being > lean but with optional add-ons and allowed 3rd parties to produce > add-ons. This is what Quentin Paine has done with Accountz - he has written them using a Java interface so that the single CD will install the program on any computer running Java. Cheers, Ray D To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 19:33:09 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBwAc-2Hx000-03-Ahh.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:33:09 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBwAc-2Hx000-03-Ahh; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:26:10 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBwAc-2Hx000-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:26:10 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBwAL-00059J-8Q for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:26:09 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id F0E438651F9; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:21:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04707-04; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:21:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B77C48651DE; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:21:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:21:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4117386508F for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04381-06 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:21:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.47]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C1013864E63 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:20:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080626182504.RFQ28496.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:25:04 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.100] (really [82.28.88.234]) by aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080626183027.XFUN8797.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[192.168.0.100]> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:30:27 +0100 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:16:04 +0100 From: Ray Dawson To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> Mail-Followup-To: davidpilling@freelists.org X-Organization: MagRay User-Agent: Gemini/2.29l (Qt/3.3.8) (Windows-Vista) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 904 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: ray@raydawson.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=yG0ohrbNsgFrkFeMQLYA:9 a=kwrY8DyJgIwR3PGg_kYA:7 a=y6f7wqlLjWlfbzECZG4U-pYvod4A:4 a=p0kJo7hkFkYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] Phil Dennison wrote: > People don't like Word, but most have it and use it and don't even > consider an alternative might exist. My main complaint against > Microsoft/Windows is that it lowers peoples expectations of what a > computer can do. In terms of reliability, complexity and quality of > output. I started off using Impression and later moved to Ovation Pro. I was a bit disappointed at first as Impression seemed a bit slicker and had a nicer interface. However, I persevered and changed all my business and personal stationery to OP files. In my business I got/get many Word files and, as I couldn't do many necessary things in RISCOS, I built a PC and networked it to the Risc PC. This meant for years that I had the best of both worlds. However, as more and more of my business needs became PC orientated, I moved to the PC for virtually everything - including using Word. I have to admit that I didn't like it but, the same as Ovation Pro, once I had set up all my stationery as templates, it became a lot easier to use. After upgrading to Word 2007 a year ago, the 'ribbon' brought a lot of the hidden features of Word to the surface and it actually became a pleasure to use. All my textual stationery in in Word and my invoicing is done using Excel, which again has templates set up so that invoices calculate automatically. One of the reasons for moving all my business stationery from Ovation Pro to the PC was because I send a lot of documents to clients by email. At the time it wasn't easy to make pdf versions using OP, although it apparently is more so now. With Word and Excell all I have to do is complete the document and save a copy as a pdf via the file menu, drag it to an email window and off it goes. Impression and Publisher had frustrations, Ovation Pro had frustrations and Word has frustrations. However, with all of them, once you sit down and work out how to make them do what YOU want to do - and preferably make templates of your commonly used documents, all of them become a lot more manageable. Even Word. The one program I could NEVER get along with was EasyWriter. If ever an application was wrongly named, that was the one. Strangely enough, although they work similarly, I find Word comprehensible whereas EW is still beyond me. One thing missing from both Ovation Pro and Impression was the ability to do simple calculations - which Word can do. OP and IP can use Tablemate, which does calculations, but they aren't dynamic. Cheers, Ray D To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 19:48:09 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBwSv-35l000-01-APO.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:48:09 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBwSv-35l000-01-APO; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:45:05 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBwSv-35l000-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:45:05 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBwSV-0006xi-U5 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:45:05 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5CC688658F6; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:39:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06607-08; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:39:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 32DD9865923; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:39:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:38:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4C96E8658F6 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:38:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06499-04 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:38:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com (ug-out-1314.google.com [66.249.92.172]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id F070C8658C8 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 14:38:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id q2so302876uge.37 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:38:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.67.116.9 with SMTP id t9mr1382061ugm.65.1214505501042; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:38:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from clive-bonsalls-macbook-pro.local ( [62.217.213.161]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 23sm364178ugf.56.2008.06.26.11.38.17 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 11:38:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4863E217.30803@ed.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:38:15 +0300 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Macintosh/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4880549bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <200806251828.m5PIS0Y5004686@ludo.freeuk.net> <20080625203858.69d4b8ff.martin.devon@heleigh.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <20080625203858.69d4b8ff.martin.devon@heleigh.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Clive Bonsall X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 905 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: cbonsall@sky.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=1pOf9RmqK1EGljQeQvMA:9 a=0T6xvqPpFrLhr37LCHMA:7 a=1kcgb7kLvVX9NDNN5uEyuHWSN3UA:4 a=oltf0pfCdT4A:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] David Pilling wrote: >>> You're the users, it is fair to point out my current feelings. We can go >>> on as for the last two years - in maintenance mode, keeping the program >>> working as RISC OS and Windows evolve. Or someone can come up with a >>> better idea. For RiscOS and Windows ... if David does not have the time or inclination to continue development (vs maintenance), would he consider handing on the baton to others? And are there others who would be willing to pick it up? For commercial success ... interest Apple or Google in bundling a version with their respective operating systems - prospective in Google's case (for the sounding out purposes, I presume it's not critical there aren't currently versions for either OS ...?). -- C.B. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Thu Jun 26 20:18:11 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBwvX-4Sq000-01-9wm.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:18:11 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBwvX-4Sq000-01-9wm; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:14:39 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBwvX-4Sq000-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:14:39 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBwvX-0004dW-BP for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:14:39 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7462D863CBE; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:14:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10654-10; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:14:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3C90B86435C; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:14:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:13:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C621B863CBE for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:13:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10610-03 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:13:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.o2.co.uk (sidious.london.02.net [82.132.130.152]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D2F2284030B for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:13:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.68] (78.86.89.89) by mail.o2.co.uk (8.0.013.3) (authenticated as phillipmarsden@o2.co.uk) id 4863729D00178737 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:13:56 +0100 Message-ID: <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:13:53 +0100 From: Phillip Marsden User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 906 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: phillip.marsden@btinternet.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=DSiO7EhvDj54Lqj2CGMA:9 a=EmzgcBCrL_SRX1PSxloA:7 a=PO4GKkj7RFA-YRkel3zA1ewlpbcA:4 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=p0kJo7hkFkYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] Phil Dennison wrote: >> [snips] >> > > I think that last statement says a lot. A large proportion of Windows > users have never used anything else. In their heads, what a computer > can do is synonymous with what their computer can do. Many use Word > like a typewriter, and have no idea of the difference between, say, a > text file and a Word document. Those of us who have used minority > platform are aware of all kinds of issues which just seem complicated > to a Windows only person. > > People don't like Word, but most have it and use it and don't even > consider an alternative might exist. My main complaint against > Microsoft/Windows is that it lowers peoples expectations of what a > computer can do. In terms of reliability, complexity and quality of > output. > I fail to see the logic here. Windows (and Linux) systems both do more than RISC OS, for reasons given many times. These reasons have been spelled out even by people who choose to earn a living out of RISC OS, so this is not sour grapes or trolling on my part. Given that Windows (and Linux and Mac) can do more things than RISC OS, I fail to see how it can be said that Windows lowers the expectations of people using it. If such a person was to try using RISC OS then they would feel very limited in what they could do. This is probably the main reason why people leave RISC OS, and the reason why many RISC OS users also have a Windows/Linux/Mac machine. It may well be that using RISC OS for the limited number of things that it CAN do is easier than Windows, but this is dependant upon your outlook. The use of a minority platform has nothing to do with being aware of certain issues. I used Unix (certainly NOT a minority platform) for many years (before Linux came along) and I am aware of issues that a normal Windows user would not be aware of, simply because they don't have to be aware of them. I am sure that I am aware of issues that some normal RISC OS users are unaware of. I am also sure that there are people around here who are aware of more issues than I am. The posting that I am responding to continues the common trait amongst certain RISC OS users that the "average" RISC OS user is more computer aware than users of other platforms, usually Windows. This is arrogance on the part of those people, as the topics that come up on the various RISC OS forums show that the "average" RISC OS user is certainly no more computer literate than the average Windows user. Sorry for continuing this thread on your forum Mr Pilling, but this sort of posting annoys me, as it attempts to perpetuate the myth that RISC OS is the most superior OS and that it is only because of the dastardly Microsoft that it has failed. -- Regards, Phillip Marsden For quality bespoke acoustic guitars phillip.marsden@btinternet.com To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:14:19 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KByfP-40kknw-08-GjQ.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:14:19 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KByfP-40kknw-08-GjQ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:06:07 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KByfP-40kknw-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:06:07 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KByfO-0005JV-Pc for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:06:07 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1167586521F; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:06:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22191-02; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D22D18651F6; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:05:28 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E05E38651E4 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:05:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22048-08 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:05:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mk-outboundfilter-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-outboundfilter-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.37]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8BF968651B9 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:05:27 -0400 (EDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhEBAEBvV0hYaW5A/2dsb2JhbAAIrnw X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,710,1204502400"; d="scan'208";a="137185351" X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from 88-105-110-64.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com (HELO [10.0.0.6]) ([88.105.110.64]) by smtp.pipex.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 26 Jun 2008 22:05:20 +0100 Message-ID: <4864048F.9070207@zionundy.me.uk> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:05:19 +0100 From: Bernard G Hill User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (X11/20080505) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <4fb58e94bajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 907 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: berni@zionundy.me.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=tQYj8ujU6xnryqCouiQA:9 a=2NmixEYydXroQCuPMY8A:7 a=BB-p_JsQZeB2Apq30Kercz1_spIA:4 a=QJAqVYndk0IA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] Ray Dawson wrote: > John Cartmell wrote: > >> Starting from scratch I'd be tempted to ask for a multi-platform (inc >> RISC OS!!) product that used a common file format and could >> import/export with Ovation Pro. It would differ from the others by being >> lean but with optional add-ons and allowed 3rd parties to produce >> add-ons. > > This is what Quentin Paine has done with Accountz - he has written them > using a Java interface so that the single CD will install the program on > any computer running Java. > > Cheers, > > Ray D > To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling > I have installed OPro on Ubuntu and used it running under Wine to check out if it could be used in this way, but not much work has been done with it compared with the use made under RiscOS. It does work, but I have also used Scribus because it exports directly to PDF for the printer, but the way this program works demonstrates how easy OPro is to use by comparison. So my choice would be OPro natively under Linux but with direct PDF output. That I would certainly pay for since OP is in my opinion a much superior program. David has thought of putting the code into the public domain, if I have read him correctly. Perhaps if that happened, it may be taken up by a Linux developer. I would like to add my appreciation to David for providing a DTP program which is a pleasure to use, and which is productively so superior to anything else. Many others in this group, have pointed out their own delight at the way OP works. Best wishes to all, Berni. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:14:19 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBynA-4Hdknw-06-Gbf.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:14:19 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBynA-4Hdknw-06-Gbf; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:14:08 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBynA-4Hdknw-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:14:08 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KByn9-0001x4-Fb for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:14:07 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EB424863CE8; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:13:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23134-07; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:13:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id AB83E863D99; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:13:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:13:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 65647863CE8 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22997-10 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:13:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 17E50863B3E for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:13:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panther (backup.vigay.com [82.163.120.21]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m5QLCplQ022908 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:12:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Vigay To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:12:29 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb5abd9d9lists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 X-No-Archive: yes Sensitivity: Private Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 908 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists-nospam@vigay.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=0xqhCTqKAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=h0zjg1GWqVRUnNxnzt4A:9 a=RIODDDSL2TJdOiNHnfUA:7 a=F2WsMothLbjuus5pl6qsTA_S3coA:4 a=4SztSTlPBk4A:10 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] In a dim and distant universe <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com>, Phillip Marsden enlightened us thusly: [Snippety snip] > I fail to see the logic here. Windows (and Linux) systems both do more > than RISC OS, for reasons given many times. These reasons have been > spelled out even by people who choose to earn a living out of RISC OS, > so this is not sour grapes or trolling on my part. I think the original comment was about Word - which is indeed pretty primitive and lowers people's expectations of what a computer can do. I actually like this because it gives me an inflated ego when people see leaflets and posters I've done and say, "WOW!!! Did you do that. That's amazing" - incorrectly thinking I've done it on Word and discovered loads of new features they didn't know about! hehe hehe. > I fail to see how it can be said that Windows lowers the expectations of > people using it. If such a person was to try using RISC OS then they > would feel very limited in what they could do. Oh? Now you're just trolling for the sake of it. I feel *severely* limited everytime I come to use a PC or Mac. The feeling of being restricted and held back is one of my biggest hates about Windows. > Windows user would not be aware of, simply because they don't have to be > aware of them. I am sure that I am aware of issues that some normal RISC > OS users are unaware of. I am also sure that there are people around > here who are aware of more issues than I am. Having done technical support on Windows and RISC OS for much longer than RISC OS itself, I'm aware of most of the little quirks and issues and, again, that's what makes me hate Windows so much! > The posting that I am responding to continues the common trait amongst > certain RISC OS users that the "average" RISC OS user is more computer > aware than users of other platforms, usually Windows. They are! I've personally witnessed it time and time again - having spent over 20 years doing technical support on all different computer platforms. The *average* RISC OS user is a *lot* more knowledeable than the *average* PC user. > This is arrogance on the part of those people, It's not. It's just ordinary observation, gleaned over many years of experience. Paul Vigay Editor, www.RISCOS.org -- Using, programming and promoting RISC OS - the most productive computer system in the world. Check it out now, and change your view of computers!! To reply/email, visit http://www.riscos.org/feedback/ The greatest fool may ask more than the wisest can answer. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:14:20 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBz0Y-02mVbs-03-GOH.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:14:20 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBz0Y-02mVbs-03-GOH; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:27:58 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBz0Y-02mVbs-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:27:58 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBz0Q-0001bN-4y for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:27:58 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 22B76864A64; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:27:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24745-07; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:27:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CBBEB864D8A; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:27:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:27:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7A300864A42 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:27:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24612-02 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:27:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.o2.co.uk (vader.london.02.net [82.132.130.150]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id AD5C886423F for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:27:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.68] (78.86.89.89) by mail.o2.co.uk (8.0.013.3) (authenticated as phillipmarsden@o2.co.uk) id 48637004001CDF95 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:27:03 +0100 Message-ID: <486409A3.30108@btinternet.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:26:59 +0100 From: Phillip Marsden User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com> <4fb5abd9d9lists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: <4fb5abd9d9lists-nospam@vigay.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 909 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: phillip.marsden@btinternet.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=iX4buxK2AfrzdvLTwXIA:9 a=B_NUYznqu0Bf0BRiJhgA:7 a=wC6f1iotJU3IpmeiNEKq_o4m7B8A:4 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=ok68_o4NJqgA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] Paul Vigay wrote: > In a dim and distant universe <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com>, > Phillip Marsden enlightened us thusly: > [Snippety snip] > > >> I fail to see the logic here. Windows (and Linux) systems both do more >> than RISC OS, for reasons given many times. These reasons have been >> spelled out even by people who choose to earn a living out of RISC OS, >> so this is not sour grapes or trolling on my part. >> > > I think the original comment was about Word - which is indeed pretty > primitive and lowers people's expectations of what a computer can do. > > I actually like this because it gives me an inflated ego when people see > leaflets and posters I've done and say, "WOW!!! Did you do that. That's > amazing" - incorrectly thinking I've done it on Word and discovered loads > of new features they didn't know about! hehe hehe. > > >> I fail to see how it can be said that Windows lowers the expectations of >> people using it. If such a person was to try using RISC OS then they >> would feel very limited in what they could do. >> > > Oh? Now you're just trolling for the sake of it. I feel *severely* limited > everytime I come to use a PC or Mac. The feeling of being restricted and > held back is one of my biggest hates about Windows. > > >> Windows user would not be aware of, simply because they don't have to be >> aware of them. I am sure that I am aware of issues that some normal RISC >> OS users are unaware of. I am also sure that there are people around >> here who are aware of more issues than I am. >> > > Having done technical support on Windows and RISC OS for much longer than > RISC OS itself, I'm aware of most of the little quirks and issues and, > again, that's what makes me hate Windows so much! > > >> The posting that I am responding to continues the common trait amongst >> certain RISC OS users that the "average" RISC OS user is more computer >> aware than users of other platforms, usually Windows. >> > > They are! > > I've personally witnessed it time and time again - having spent over 20 > years doing technical support on all different computer platforms. The > *average* RISC OS user is a *lot* more knowledeable than the *average* PC > user. > > >> This is arrogance on the part of those people, >> > > It's not. It's just ordinary observation, gleaned over many years of > experience. > > Paul, I do not troll. We all know how blinkered you are. You are a purveyor of half-truths, as is shown every time someone takes you to task. You may feel that RISC OS can serve your every need, but the majority of the users that RISC OS once had think otherwise. If they did not, they would still be within the RISC OS market, and David Pilling would not have to be concerned about the future of OPro (which is the real topic of this thread). -- Regards, Phillip Marsden For quality bespoke acoustic guitars phillip.marsden@btinternet.com To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:14:20 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBz1l-04zVbs-02-GN4.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:14:20 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBz1l-04zVbs-02-GN4; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:29:13 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBz1l-04zVbs-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:29:13 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBz1h-0007il-6V for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:29:13 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 95ED6864EFC; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:29:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25144-01; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:29:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5CD2D8646DD; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:29:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:28:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4997D864D94 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:28:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24878-07 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:28:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9B7AF86423F for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:28:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panther (backup.vigay.com [82.163.120.21]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m5QLRrlw023061 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:27:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Vigay To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:17:04 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) Message-ID: <4fb5ac455alists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <4fb58e94bajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 X-No-Archive: yes Sensitivity: Private Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 910 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists-nospam@vigay.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=0xqhCTqKAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=vso19JvA9s9iSDzuJWwA:9 a=7VJZeriWA0qqx-SMfFcA:7 a=OfBINcl-nLIPiPWCyP0Xt66tHyEA:4 a=4SztSTlPBk4A:10 a=bzKVVdKtbjEA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] In a dim and distant universe , Ray Dawson enlightened us thusly: > This is what Quentin Paine has done with Accountz - he has written them > using a Java interface so that the single CD will install the program on > any computer running Java. Yes, but Java is pretty slow in which to run a major application. The latest Accountz running on an Intel dual core, top-end Apple Mac is still *much* slower (by an order of magnitude) than Prophet 3 running on an Iyonix. Java hasn't really progressed much beyond writing little web applets or the odd scientific simulation. I certainly wouldn't want to run a major application in it. Same as X. OpenOffice on an Apple Mac is a total sloth, compared to something like Pages (or OvationPro, again on the Iyonix). Paul Vigay Editor, www.RISCOS.org -- Using, programming and promoting RISC OS - the most productive computer system in the world. Check it out now, and change your view of computers!! To reply/email, visit http://www.riscos.org/feedback/ How to crash a computer... Install a Microsoft product! To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:14:21 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KBzhD-1LRVbs-02-Fhc.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:14:21 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KBzhD-1LRVbs-02-Fhc; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:12:03 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KBzhD-1LRVbs-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:12:03 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KBzh8-000361-Ri for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:12:03 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 66404865310 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:10:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29339-06 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:10:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 46C54865358 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:10:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:10:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8A831865310 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29167-06 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:10:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from florence.spa.umn.edu (florence.spa.umn.edu [128.101.220.10]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A503D8652FA for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peevish.spa.umn.edu ([128.101.220.230]) by florence.spa.umn.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.66 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1KBzfG-000KXM-Fj for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:10:03 -0500 Received: from peevish.spa.umn.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by peevish.spa.umn.edu (8.13.8/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m5QMA2Et019394 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:10:02 -0500 Received: (from allan@localhost) by peevish.spa.umn.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id m5QMA2lJ019392 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:10:02 -0500 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:10:01 -0500 From: Graham Allan To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) Message-ID: <20080626221001.GD12496@physics.umn.edu> References: <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <4fb58e94bajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4fb5ac455alists-nospam@vigay.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4fb5ac455alists-nospam@vigay.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 911 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: allan@physics.umn.edu Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=-opikWOArJcUKDG-10YA:9 a=wnRbiuFk2zKuAkeXYCYA:7 a=CJE6T9nGMsg2jYKZR4YiHK09cycA:4 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 10:17:04PM +0100, Paul Vigay wrote: > > Java hasn't really progressed much beyond writing little web applets or the > odd scientific simulation. I certainly wouldn't want to run a major > application in it. That is not universally true. For example the PVR software I use, SageTV, is written in java (and is cross-platform between Windows, Mac, linux). No performance problems there. Graham To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:14:22 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KC03i-1yHVbs-07-FL7.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:14:22 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KC03i-1yHVbs-07-FL7; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:35:18 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KC03i-1yHVbs-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:35:18 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KC03e-0001vh-Cy for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:35:18 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 51E79864BB2 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31943-03 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 26EC38646B1 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:34:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1D2A38647D3 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:34:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31781-06 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:34:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.48]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A69B8864803 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:34:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080626223917.QECV7070.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:39:17 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.100] (really [82.28.88.234]) by aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080626224427.CHOM8797.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[192.168.0.100]> for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:44:27 +0100 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:33:25 +0100 From: Ray Dawson To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4fb5ac455alists-nospam@vigay.com> References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <4fb58e94bajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4fb5ac455alists-nospam@vigay.com> Mail-Followup-To: davidpilling@freelists.org X-Organization: MagRay User-Agent: Gemini/2.29l (Qt/3.3.8) (Windows-Vista) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 912 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: ray@raydawson.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=agdRmQlk6cdgGWfXh8cA:9 a=TiaeKAVfo5Ch6XevqiMA:7 a=u5c0Zz_rVlaSqEAMbmNfWH8SYBYA:4 a=MVlnOHnAQ0oA:10 a=bzKVVdKtbjEA:10 a=ok68_o4NJqgA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] Paul Vigay wrote: > In a dim and distant universe , > Ray Dawson enlightened us thusly: > > > This is what Quentin Paine has done with Accountz - he has written > > them using a Java interface so that the single CD will install the > > program on any computer running Java. > > Yes, but Java is pretty slow in which to run a major application. The > latest Accountz running on an Intel dual core, top-end Apple Mac is > still *much* slower (by an order of magnitude) than Prophet 3 running on > an Iyonix. There must be something wrong with your system then as Accountz, running on a dual core 6750 and Vista is very fast - a lot, lot more than Personal Accounts on my Risc PC. The point about running in Java is that it is portable between OSs capable of running recent Java - which of course excludes RISC OS. Cheers, Ray D To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:14:23 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KC09e-26qVbs-01-FFB.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:14:23 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KC09e-26qVbs-01-FFB; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:41:26 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KC09e-26qVbs-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:41:26 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KC09e-0001xf-4b for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:41:26 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4CF69864C5A for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:41:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32753-09 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:41:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1FD8F864AB4 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:41:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:40:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4F3B3864C5A for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32627-05 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ipmail05.adl2.internode.on.net (ipmail05.adl2.internode.on.net [203.16.214.145]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8A2C1864BB2 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:40:44 -0400 (EDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AqgAALC2Y0h5LE6U/2dsb2JhbAAItGU X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,710,1204464600"; d="scan'208";a="145727035" Received: from ppp121-44-78-148.lns10.syd6.internode.on.net (HELO [192.168.1.102]) ([121.44.78.148]) by ipmail05.adl2.internode.on.net with ESMTP; 27 Jun 2008 08:10:41 +0930 Message-ID: <48641AF8.7010006@internode.on.net> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:40:56 +1000 From: Peter Prewett User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Ovation W to pdf References: <4861B963.2040201@internode.on.net> <$6SVHmCesqYIFw+1@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4862CF53.8090407@internode.on.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 913 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: pprewett@internode.on.net Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=guZDv20eFFoA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=fxvZ32Tcyw88YIMKyfcA:9 a=My6seRoVuwZQqMW5zyUA:7 a=RekVrb62Y1baRvklRDuZ-sHigF4A:4 a=oltf0pfCdT4A:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] David Pilling wrote: > In message <4862CF53.8090407@internode.on.net>, Peter Prewett > writes >> Ovation Windows but the picture itself was drawn as a sprite and had >> a mask > > That is a troublesome area... > >> displays correctly in Ovation Pro but it is the conversion to pdf >> from Ovation that the mask gets converted to black. > > I'd suggest configuring your copy of Ovation Pro for Windows to use > "direct PostScript" Misc->Choices->Print then print to PDF again. > > It is hard to summarise the situation on Windows with regards to > transparency. On classic windows there is no support, and you do it by > eor'ing bitmaps, the PostScript drivers don't support this. As with > RISC OS there are two major classes of printer drivers meta file and > PostScript. Now no doubt transparency support has appeared over the > years, but that doesn't mean printer drivers have been upgraded to > understand it. > > That appears to work on the few pages I have checked so far. I think it does mean though I have to remember to set the choices each time I use Ovation Pro for Windows, as it is a global setting rather than a document saving. Thanks again for your help it is appreciated. Peter -- Peter Prewett, Tumut, New South Wales To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:14:24 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KC0Qt-2XEVbs-07-Exw.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:14:24 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KC0Qt-2XEVbs-07-Exw; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:59:15 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KC0Qt-2XEVbs-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:59:15 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KC0Qt-0002jI-5X for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:59:15 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 83ABB2E44 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:59:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02839-05 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:59:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 60A493E57 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:59:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:58:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9E2733160 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:58:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02629-05 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:58:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.86]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5DFE92B0E for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:58:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KC0QF-0009y2-JS for davidpilling@freelists.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:58:35 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:56:06 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb5b55657john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/6.10) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 914 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: john@cartmell.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=fKTeoBIvAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=GULDNZmNQi2n1y5h2Z8A:9 a=--u0lGJsrKnir-tNF9UA:7 a=SrzRcvcWsYgNnvKZ_QBtplmvnFAA:4 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=J70dMskYxoEA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] On 26 Jun, Phillip Marsden wrote: > Windows (and Linux) systems both do more than RISC OS, for reasons given > many times. And less. It all depends upon what you want - and for most of what I want RISC OS is far better than any other system, Macs are better for some things and much worse at others, whilst Windows is good as a dumb printer terminal using UniPrint. But that's *my* experience. Your experience may differ. Your understanding may be limited. You may be suffering from the cognitive dissonance of having given up on RISC OS and so need to be critical of it without wanting to test reality. Oh - and Windows is even better than Phillip Marsden at winding me up. ;-) -- John Cartmell john@finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 or 0161 969 9820 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.qercus.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:14:40 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KC7wF-16Rknw-01-Fz6.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:14:40 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KC7wF-16Rknw-01-Fz6; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:00:07 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KC7wF-16Rknw-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:00:07 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KC7wF-0001oV-95 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:00:07 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C835F864596 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:00:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03284-06 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:00:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A8A74864889 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:00:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:59:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D41CC864596 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02974-08 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 881E98644A6 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panther (backup.vigay.com [82.163.120.21]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m5R6xFFx029360 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:59:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Vigay To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:50:46 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb5e0cb9flists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: <486409A3.30108@btinternet.com> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com> <4fb5abd9d9lists-nospam@vigay.com> <486409A3.30108@btinternet.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 X-No-Archive: yes Sensitivity: Private Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 915 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists-nospam@vigay.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=0xqhCTqKAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=lFdWbbFIZV4fMYQw6gcA:9 a=e0NmdnwinqlXH3_jUXgA:7 a=F35Tx0pFt11a02wIYYD9AmNRk8oA:4 a=4SztSTlPBk4A:10 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] In a dim and distant universe <486409A3.30108@btinternet.com>, Phillip Marsden enlightened us thusly: [Snippety snip] > Paul, I do not troll. Yes you were. You distorted a comment about the limitations of Word (which most will agree on) and expanded it into a RISC OS knocking session. > not, they would still be within the RISC OS market, and David Pilling > would not have to be concerned about the future of OPro (which is the > real topic of this thread). I thought he was concerned about lack of sales of the PC version - when numerous people have expressed their support in paying for a RISC OS version update. If there is future development and an update to OvPro for RISC OS, I'd be willing to sponsor a full page advert in RISC OS Now magazine. Paul Vigay Editor, www.RISCOS.org -- Using, programming and promoting RISC OS - the most productive computer system in the world. Check it out now, and change your view of computers!! To reply/email, visit http://www.riscos.org/feedback/ Accept that some days you are the pigeon and some days the statue. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:14:40 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KC7wF-17Dknw-07-Fz6.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:14:40 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KC7wF-17Dknw-07-Fz6; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:00:07 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KC7wF-17Dknw-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:00:07 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KC7wF-0001oj-Hd for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:00:07 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 31BBC864568 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03291-07 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0E5F3864889 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:59:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C6BC6864568 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03034-02 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 798D2864423 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 02:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panther (backup.vigay.com [82.163.120.21]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m5R6xFG0029360 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:59:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Vigay To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:53:24 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) Message-ID: <4fb5e1096blists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: <20080626221001.GD12496@physics.umn.edu> References: <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <4fb58e94bajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4fb5ac455alists-nospam@vigay.com> <20080626221001.GD12496@physics.umn.edu> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 X-No-Archive: yes Sensitivity: Private Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 1 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists-nospam@vigay.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=0xqhCTqKAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=jOzE6ivxjqGLxayVuQAA:9 a=7rdyNFltXBVjJchKaywA:7 a=c-PkY8DMvjtEoi7K8gt1csQ22vkA:4 a=4SztSTlPBk4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] In a dim and distant universe <20080626221001.GD12496@physics.umn.edu>, Graham Allan enlightened us thusly: > That is not universally true. For example the PVR software I use, SageTV, > is written in java (and is cross-platform between Windows, Mac, linux). > No performance problems there. With respect, PVR software is pretty simple stuff - and I agree, probably just what Java is good for. Paul Vigay Editor, www.RISCOS.org -- Using, programming and promoting RISC OS - the most productive computer system in the world. Check it out now, and change your view of computers!! To reply/email, visit http://www.riscos.org/feedback/ The human race will end with this generation. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:14:40 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KC7yE-1Cqknw-06-Fx7.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:14:40 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KC7yE-1Cqknw-06-Fx7; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:02:10 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KC7yE-1Cqknw-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:02:10 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KC7yD-0000Fc-Pe for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:02:10 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A5F3D86488E for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:02:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03469-05 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:02:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8395886478A for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:02:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:01:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6F1EE8645F3 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:01:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03366-02 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:01:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from danny.netweaver.net (danny.netweaver.net [86.53.223.11]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with SMTP id E5789864742 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:01:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 21253 invoked from network); 27 Jun 2008 07:01:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.65?) (martin@lexiconlifeline.co.uk@91.85.168.209) by danny.netweaver.net with SMTP; 27 Jun 2008 07:01:22 -0000 Message-ID: <48649045.5020304@eclipse.co.uk> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:01:25 +0100 From: Martin Longley User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <4fb58e94bajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4fb5ac455alists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: <4fb5ac455alists-nospam@vigay.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 916 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: mlongley@eclipse.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=HATPMwiSAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=E_FK0ql8MHtMRCsCYTsA:9 a=M-pG6RSZCCVZR5Yqr0YA:7 a=cOI79k9ZE5yeblOGHRGCGaMD-KoA:4 a=ok68_o4NJqgA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] Paul Vigay wrote: > Yes, but Java is pretty slow in which to run a major application. The > latest Accountz running on an Intel dual core, top-end Apple Mac is still > *much* slower (by an order of magnitude) than Prophet 3 running on an > Iyonix. > > Java hasn't really progressed much beyond writing little web applets or the > odd scientific simulation. I certainly wouldn't want to run a major > application in it. > > Try www.j2e.com to see what can be done with Java. Helps when programmer has written major RISC OS application and doesn't create bloatware. Martin Longley To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:14:41 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KC8Al-1faknw-03-Fka.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:14:41 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KC8Al-1faknw-03-Fka; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:15:07 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KC8Al-1faknw-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:15:07 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KC8Al-0007ev-9I for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:15:07 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E59E7862491 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:15:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04411-10 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:15:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id AF2C484E4A6 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:15:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:14:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 003F7862CF5 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:14:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04368-01 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A4D0B8620AE for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panther (backup.vigay.com [82.163.120.21]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m5R7EHLq029497 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:14:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Vigay To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:59:49 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) Message-ID: <4fb5e19fa6lists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <4fb58e94bajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4fb5ac455alists-nospam@vigay.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 X-No-Archive: yes Sensitivity: Private Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 917 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists-nospam@vigay.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=0xqhCTqKAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=8R6OM333myT7qJ7ANg8A:9 a=xYj7i2ARjHDvwyL3iH4A:7 a=gHEgH6FSrrA8OzoN0MeqCBuElEQA:4 a=4SztSTlPBk4A:10 a=bzKVVdKtbjEA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] In a dim and distant universe , Ray Dawson enlightened us thusly: [Snippety snip] > The point about running in Java is that it is portable between OSs > capable of running recent Java - which of course excludes RISC OS. Yes, but you're missing another major fundamental point. With Java you end up with everything within a walled garden and the user interface is horrible. The whole beauty of RISC OS is that you have the RISC OS environment. This is the major pleasure of the whole system. I've already admitted that there are some jolly good Mac applications out there (Keynote is lovely) BUT, and it's a MAJOR BUT, the usability of those applications is seriously let down (in my case to the state of unusability) by the rest of the GUI which is terrible compared to RISC OS. The thing I like about OvPro is that it's all a nice, integrated, RISC OS application, so a pleasure to use. Like the comment I made about Open Office on the Mac, it might be a nice application, but it's still running within a closed 'X' environment on the Mac, which means it doesn't even conform to the Mac OS X desktop stuff (think Firefox on RISC OS for a comparison). Java applications are the same, so for me, they'll never replace native applications which run in the native GUI of the relevant OS being used. IMHO RISC OS is easily the best GUI, which is why I believe RISC OS OvPro will always be the best version, even if the Windows version might have a couple more features. Paul Vigay Editor, www.RISCOS.org -- Using, programming and promoting RISC OS - the most productive computer system in the world. Check it out now, and change your view of computers!! To reply/email, visit http://www.riscos.org/feedback/ Datum: 17 August 2001 22:55 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:14:41 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KC8XA-2asknw-08-FOB.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:14:41 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KC8XA-2asknw-08-FOB; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:38:16 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KC8XA-2asknw-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:38:16 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KC8X9-0000A9-HS for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:38:15 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1DE428646FC for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:38:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06062-02 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:38:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E829A864573 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:38:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:37:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 483028646FC for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:37:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05943-01 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:37:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.49]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9C9318646D3 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:36:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080627074219.PVOT16629.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:42:19 +0100 Received: from iyonix.ntlworld.com ([82.1.169.32]) by aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080627074620.GZBN8797.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@iyonix.ntlworld.com> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:46:20 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Dr Alan Leighton X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:38:01 +0100 Message-ID: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com> <4fb5abd9d9lists-nospam@vigay.com> <486409A3.30108@btinternet.com> <4fb5e0cb9flists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: <4fb5e0cb9flists-nospam@vigay.com> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 918 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: alan.leighton2@ntlworld.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=laeCwKYhzv_HlKUme7QA:9 a=JxfsQiOtOTU7kWqovBEA:7 a=gymuaXG93ggUtPFht2FpDG4062IA:4 a=MVlnOHnAQ0oA:10 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] In message <4fb5e0cb9flists-nospam@vigay.com> Paul Vigay wrote: > In a dim and distant universe <486409A3.30108@btinternet.com>, > Phillip Marsden enlightened us thusly: > [Snippety snip] >> Paul, I do not troll. > Yes you were. You distorted a comment about the limitations of Word (which > most will agree on) and expanded it into a RISC OS knocking session. >> not, they would still be within the RISC OS market, and David Pilling >> would not have to be concerned about the future of OPro (which is the >> real topic of this thread). > I thought he was concerned about lack of sales of the PC version - when > numerous people have expressed their support in paying for a RISC OS > version update. > If there is future development and an update to OvPro for RISC OS, I'd be > willing to sponsor a full page advert in RISC OS Now magazine. Hector's House you can't be fairer than that, Well done Alan -- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:14:41 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KC8c1-2maknw-02-FJK.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:14:41 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KC8c1-2maknw-02-FJK; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:43:17 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KC8c1-2maknw-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:43:17 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KC8c0-0001Fz-T1 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:43:17 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5FE1785BE26 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06606-04 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 338BC861745 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:43:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:42:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6411485BE26 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06460-10 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.49]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0129185E312 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080627074829.PXRO16629.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:48:29 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.100] (really [82.28.88.234]) by aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080627075230.HBCZ8797.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[192.168.0.100]> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:52:30 +0100 Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:41:53 +0100 From: Ray Dawson To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4fb5e0cb9flists-nospam@vigay.com> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com> <4fb5abd9d9lists-nospam@vigay.com> <486409A3.30108@btinternet.com> <4fb5e0cb9flists-nospam@vigay.com> Mail-Followup-To: davidpilling@freelists.org X-Organization: MagRay User-Agent: Gemini/2.29l (Qt/3.3.8) (Windows-Vista) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 919 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: ray@raydawson.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=W3Pt0JXIayXYWpcqjL0A:9 a=3f195vnXFV9qiHSX6qgA:7 a=fcJAHmlGIBdWhVMQykhYa0-7GZgA:4 a=MVlnOHnAQ0oA:10 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=ok68_o4NJqgA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] Paul Vigay wrote: > In a dim and distant universe <486409A3.30108@btinternet.com>, > Phillip Marsden enlightened us thusly: > [Snippety snip] > > > Paul, I do not troll. > > Yes you were. You distorted a comment about the limitations of Word > (which most will agree on) and expanded it into a RISC OS knocking > session. Word doesn't have limitations - the limitations are the lack of understanding of the user. The latest version of Word makes it a lot easier to use and understand. Word is a lot easier to understand than RISC OS's EasyWriter, which works on similar principles. > > not, they would still be within the RISC OS market, and David Pilling > > would not have to be concerned about the future of OPro (which is the > > real topic of this thread). > > I thought he was concerned about lack of sales of the PC version - when > numerous people have expressed their support in paying for a RISC OS > version update. The lack os sales of the PC version is a combined result of competition and exposure. The potential number of users is very high. The potential number of RISC OS users is about 60. > If there is future development and an update to OvPro for RISC OS, I'd > be willing to sponsor a full page advert in RISC OS Now magazine. Which has a very limited coverage. What is perhaps needed is exposure on a magazine CD of something like PC Pro, which has a wide readership. Perhaps sending copies to PC mags for review would be productive - but only if it competes well with the competition. Don't forget this the Ovation Pro list and not a RISC OS list and, as such is open to positive comments about the Windows version. Ray D To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:14:42 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KC8qC-3SDknw-02-F59.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:14:42 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KC8qC-3SDknw-02-F59; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:57:56 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KC8qC-3SDknw-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:57:56 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KC8qA-0001hx-If for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:57:56 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1DDD38646FC for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:57:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08156-09 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:57:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DAE70864320 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:57:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:57:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EAF478646FC for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08117-03 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (zen.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.18]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A0EC4864433 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave.nom ([88.202.195.37]) by zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m5R7v5dO024962 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:57:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:57:16 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb5e6e234dave@triffid.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com> <4fb5abd9d9lists-nospam@vigay.com> <486409A3.30108@btinternet.com> <4fb5e0cb9flists-nospam@vigay.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/6.10) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 920 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: dave@triffid.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=qRDccHd9OXFFyKlZk6AA:9 a=N0KpXxzYy7t0V7WjbFYA:7 a=okKc26Vy_m929t_ibqDpJOvd9DYA:4 a=bzKVVdKtbjEA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] In article , Ray Dawson wrote: [Snippy] > Don't forget this the Ovation Pro list and not a RISC OS list and, as > such is open to positive comments about the Windows version. I have a dislike of Word, being among that group of forced user who prefer to replace the Wo with Tu. As I like and use OvPro on RO a lot, I also use (somewhat less) but like a lot OvPro for Windows. When ever I can create a doc without using the Tu.. I always use OvPro Win. Additionally the fact that I can work up a document on the RO side, then transfer it to the Win side for additional work is an added bonus. Dave S -- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:14:42 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KC95S-4Oyknw-02-Ept.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:14:42 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KC95S-4Oyknw-02-Ept; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:13:42 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KC95S-4Oyknw-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:13:42 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KC95R-0003Uz-IQ for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 08:13:42 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 17FA284E4DD for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 04:13:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09413-08 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 04:13:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E1CC18611A4 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 04:13:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 04:13:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A0A2C84E4DD for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 04:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09298-08 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 04:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5212684E439 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 04:13:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panther (backup.vigay.com [82.163.120.21]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m5R8Cn0u030011 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:12:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Vigay To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:07:21 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb5e7ce44lists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com> <4fb5abd9d9lists-nospam@vigay.com> <486409A3.30108@btinternet.com> <4fb5e0cb9flists-nospam@vigay.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 X-No-Archive: yes Sensitivity: Private Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 921 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists-nospam@vigay.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=0xqhCTqKAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=8B2ru3BkaCoYxdXsdHEA:9 a=NkCRb3R1E-CEyrzP-8oA:7 a=USZoYliyk1PbP4s5L0CAsLwNJY4A:4 a=4SztSTlPBk4A:10 a=bzKVVdKtbjEA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] In a dim and distant universe , Ray Dawson enlightened us thusly: [Snippety snip] > The lack os sales of the PC version is a combined result of competition > and exposure. The potential number of users is very high. The potential > number of RISC OS users is about 60. There are vastly more *potential* RISC OS users than that. The problem is in reaching them. There are 1000s of RISC OS users who don't even know there are other RISC OS users around. I would say that at least once a week I get a phone call from someone, with a RISC OS support enquiry, who a) seem shocked when I tell them I'm using a RISC OS machine as my main machine and b) are even more shocked when I tell them there's an active RISC OS community, as they think they're the only one left. Indeed, Orpheus has over 400 RISC OS customers who probably never even use Newsgroups, so the people who /do/ read and participate in newsgroups I would say is a very small minority of potential users. There are still 3000 people on the Ant mailing list, and that's not even been developed for a number of years. > Which has a very limited coverage. What is perhaps needed is exposure on > a magazine CD of something like PC Pro, No of relevance to RISC OS I'm afraid, so I'm not going to offer to sponsor that. :-) > Don't forget this the Ovation Pro list and not a RISC OS list and, as > such is open to positive comments about the Windows version. Fair enough. I don't have any positive comments to offer about that, and I would never be a user of the Windows version anyway (or Mac/Linux for that matter), so I'll shut up and 'get me coat' now. :-) Paul Vigay Editor, www.RISCOS.org -- Using, programming and promoting RISC OS - the most productive computer system in the world. Check it out now, and change your view of computers!! To reply/email, visit http://www.riscos.org/feedback/ A truly wise man never plays leapfrog with a unicorn. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:14:48 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCA26-3bzVbs-08-DtF.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:14:48 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCA26-3bzVbs-08-DtF; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:14:18 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCA26-3bzVbs-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:14:18 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCA25-0002WO-Ux for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:14:18 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 83A65857D1A for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13419-10 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5A084864694 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:13:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7B794857D1A for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:13:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13323-05 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:13:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.o2.co.uk (yoda.london.02.net [82.132.130.151]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0970A84E52F for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:13:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.68] (78.86.89.89) by mail.o2.co.uk (8.0.013.3) (authenticated as phillipmarsden@o2.co.uk) id 4863718900329A55 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:13:30 +0100 Message-ID: <4864AF36.4010902@btinternet.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:13:26 +0100 From: Phillip Marsden User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com> <4fb5abd9d9lists-nospam@vigay.com> <486409A3.30108@btinternet.com> <4fb5e0cb9flists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb5e7ce44lists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: <4fb5e7ce44lists-nospam@vigay.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 922 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: phillip.marsden@btinternet.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=hx2ibN9YEKv4APSlNDsA:9 a=DHWyLaFF68pLBLFFHOsA:7 a=BKXcZ4ulRUzX0qn2wdBqm50HjdkA:4 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=ok68_o4NJqgA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] Paul Vigay wrote: > [snip] > There are vastly more *potential* RISC OS users than that. The problem is > in reaching them. There are 1000s of RISC OS users who don't even know > there are other RISC OS users around. > > I would say that at least once a week I get a phone call from someone, with > a RISC OS support enquiry, who a) seem shocked when I tell them I'm using a > RISC OS machine as my main machine and b) are even more shocked when I tell > them there's an active RISC OS community, as they think they're the only > one left. > > Indeed, Orpheus has over 400 RISC OS customers who probably never even use > Newsgroups, so the people who /do/ read and participate in newsgroups I > would say is a very small minority of potential users. > > There are still 3000 people on the Ant mailing list, and that's not even > been developed for a number of years. > > [snip] There are about 300 names in my programming agency database, which also has not been developed for years, but that does not mean that any of these agencies are still in business. You state that you know of many people who run RISC OS and are unaware of other RISC OS users and do not use RISC OS forums. Let us accept that there are indeed thousands of these people, rather than a figment of your imagination. Why don't you contact these people and inform them of the joys of OPro and ask them to contact David Pilling? I know that you will not consider passing on the details of these people to David Pilling so that he can mailshot them (privacy etc), so why don't you make the first move? If there is any substance at all to your claims, then this might result in extra sales for OPro (RISC OS or Windows) and indeed any other software that is being developed for RISC OS. Will you (can you) do this, or have I called your bluff? -- Regards, Phillip Marsden For quality bespoke acoustic guitars phillip.marsden@btinternet.com To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:14:50 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCA32-3eKVbs-01-DsJ.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:14:50 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCA32-3eKVbs-01-DsJ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:15:16 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCA32-3eKVbs-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:15:16 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCA32-0005sa-7I for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:15:16 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D1B4E864491 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:15:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13567-02 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:15:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A64EA8646B8 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:15:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:14:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8061D864491 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:14:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13455-10 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:14:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.o2.co.uk (sidious.london.02.net [82.132.130.152]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 138D6864058 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:14:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.68] (78.86.89.89) by mail.o2.co.uk (8.0.013.3) (authenticated as phillipmarsden@o2.co.uk) id 4863729D00327DD0 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:14:34 +0100 Message-ID: <4864AF79.5070208@btinternet.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:14:33 +0100 From: Phillip Marsden User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com> <4fb5abd9d9lists-nospam@vigay.com> <486409A3.30108@btinternet.com> <4fb5e0cb9flists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: <4fb5e0cb9flists-nospam@vigay.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 923 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: phillip.marsden@btinternet.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=a9EeNOmy0QLjmZZtRRAA:9 a=-jBWU0a-88CSfRQFQ44A:7 a=BpA6gLORONI_TSE5w1HR5LDIi0wA:4 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=ok68_o4NJqgA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] Paul Vigay wrote: > In a dim and distant universe <486409A3.30108@btinternet.com>, > Phillip Marsden enlightened us thusly: > [Snippety snip] > > >> Paul, I do not troll. >> > > Yes you were. You distorted a comment about the limitations of Word (which > most will agree on) and expanded it into a RISC OS knocking session. > > >> not, they would still be within the RISC OS market, and David Pilling >> would not have to be concerned about the future of OPro (which is the >> real topic of this thread). >> > > I thought he was concerned about lack of sales of the PC version - when > numerous people have expressed their support in paying for a RISC OS > version update. > > If there is future development and an update to OvPro for RISC OS, I'd be > willing to sponsor a full page advert in RISC OS Now magazine. > > Believe what you will Paul. I know that you mean well and want to do the best for RISC OS. The problem is that you appear to find it difficult to separate truth or reality from conspiracy theories. I watch the discussions between yourself and other people who I consider to be really technical (you are a nice chap Paul, but I don't think that you are as proficient in many things as you think you are) and I see a constant slip-sliding away from points under discussion, ignoring the point that you just lost. This reminds me of someone else who haunts these forums, but I would not put you in HIS league. The statements that you make about Java in another post are a good example. Major corporations are putting much money into developing major applications in Java, but the truth according to Paul Vigay is that Java has not progressed much beyond applets. You make a point about Java being restricted to a "walled garden", as if this is a bad point. The promoters of Java call this security, something that RISC OS does not have, and this has been attested by some of the most prolific developers in the RISC OS field. There is no point in trying to win people over with arguments like this Paul, as only those who know less than you will be fooled by it. -- Regards, Phillip Marsden For quality bespoke acoustic guitars phillip.marsden@btinternet.com To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:14:51 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCA5B-3olVbs-06-DqA.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:14:51 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCA5B-3olVbs-06-DqA; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:17:29 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCA5B-3olVbs-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:17:29 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCA5A-0005it-Ta for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:17:29 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 89528862671 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13693-08 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5D434863B6C for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:17:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:16:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 565DE862671 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:16:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13570-07 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:16:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pih-relay06.plus.net (pih-relay06.plus.net [212.159.14.133]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0737E84E3C6 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 05:16:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [80.229.238.131] (helo=ASCENSION) by pih-relay06.plus.net with esmtpa (Exim) id 1KCA4V-0006y1-2B for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:16:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ned Abell To: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:13:04 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) Message-ID: <4fb5edd2cenedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> In-Reply-To: <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 Content-Type: text/plain X-Plusnet-Relay: fc28e21bc4a5ccd964e29fef37b998e8 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 924 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=qomUrrWPG-W0OZwyuBIA:9 a=O0Qrap1WPCHBDVB5wfAA:7 a=IFIU87cHOlQNeTM-pMR6O-6H6YcA:4 a=fl4ZfBcLCrEA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] On 26 Jun, Martin Wuerthner wrote: > In message <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> > Ned Abell wrote: > > [...] This thread seems to have wandered off topic from > > my original posting. The main reason I started it was to > > see if a _native_ Linux version was now more feasable. > So, has anything changed compared to back then that would > prompt a reassessment of the situation? Changes by David? It seems no, as he hasn't explored using his Linux box to be in a position to see whether he likes it, if its viable porting software and the model in which this might be marketed. Changes by others? Yes. As you know under RISC OS part or full migration to other platforms continues because of the limitations of the oldest machines and the cost of native hardware compared to other types. Thus those migrating are looking for ways to ensure legacy on other platforms. Worldwide since 06 there has been more takeup of the Linux platform because better marketing of distibutions such as Ubuntu and thier ease of use and a move by big institutions to open source OS and software. Also as general computer hardware costs fall any cost of an operating system becomes a significant part of the overall cost of ownership compared with open source OS's like Linux - another reason for its popularity. The Elonex One is about to come out putting a Linux computer at low cost in the hands of school children who would gain great advantage from a program like OPro as would other Linux users because as the market expands more DTP users emerge. In two years the DTP offerings on Linux havnt evolved to compare with OPro. Thus in summation changes are more potential new users and legacy users for a Linux version of OPro compared with 06. ..sorry Martin, you did ask :-) > Is there any reason to believe that the reasoning done in > 2006 is no longer valid today? I think you might have to ask David that. -- besters.. Ned === skype:nedabell To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:14:52 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCAv2-2TZGPo-01-D0J.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:14:52 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCAv2-2TZGPo-01-D0J; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:11:04 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCAv2-2TZGPo-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:11:04 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCAv1-0004A6-H0 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:11:04 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EBBE5864C21 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:11:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17289-06 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:11:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C15CD864C12 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:11:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:10:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3A920864C2F for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17117-07 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:10:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DF7A9864BB3 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:10:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panther (backup.vigay.com [82.163.120.21]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m5RAA8fQ031134 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:10:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Vigay To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:05:16 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb5f29a4clists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: <4864AF36.4010902@btinternet.com> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com> <4fb5abd9d9lists-nospam@vigay.com> <486409A3.30108@btinternet.com> <4fb5e0cb9flists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb5e7ce44lists-nospam@vigay.com> <4864AF36.4010902@btinternet.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 X-No-Archive: yes Sensitivity: Private Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 925 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists-nospam@vigay.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=0xqhCTqKAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=BbKAu_oI6JL9HxsHfeMA:9 a=peB3tK4loxbHZL7qLxQA:7 a=gp_hCi2XJXSHSY9lOMU8J9fnuOoA:4 a=4SztSTlPBk4A:10 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1519] In a dim and distant universe <4864AF36.4010902@btinternet.com>, Phillip Marsden enlightened us thusly: > There are about 300 names in my programming agency database, which also > has not been developed for years, but that does not mean that any of > these agencies are still in business. By virtue of the fact emails don't bounce (or get returns as mailbox over-quota) I assume that they're still in use. I also assume that if people weren't interested, they'd unsubscribe. Anyway.... > You state that you know of many people who run RISC OS and are unaware > of other RISC OS users and do not use RISC OS forums. Let us accept that > there are indeed thousands of these people, rather than a figment of > your imagination. Why don't you contact these people and inform them of > the joys of OPro and ask them to contact David Pilling? Oh I do. I usually end up having a long chat with them, and point them to the various magazines, newsgroups and local usergroups in their area. However, this is the slow way of finding the RISC OS users - as it relies on them requiring help and happening to find my telephone number, which I imagine would also be a small subset of potential users. > I know that you will not consider passing on the details of these people > to David Pilling so that he can mailshot them (privacy etc), so why > don't you make the first move? If there is any substance at all to your > claims, then this might result in extra sales for OPro (RISC OS or > Windows) and indeed any other software that is being developed for RISC > OS. > Will you (can you) do this, or have I called your bluff? Oh indeed. If David would like me to include an Ovation flyer in any of my mailshots, I'd be more than willing to include one. In fact, I just put a RISC OS Now flyer in with a batch of Orpheus re-subscription renewals, which I think resulted in about 4 new subscribers for RONow, just this week. :-) In fact, if David has a flyer as a document, I'll even print it out for him - can't say better than that. :-) Paul Vigay Editor, www.RISCOS.org -- Using, programming and promoting RISC OS - the most productive computer system in the world. Check it out now, and change your view of computers!! To reply/email, visit http://www.riscos.org/feedback/ 51 things to do in a lift.... 13. Greet everyone getting on the lift with a warm handshake and ask them to call you Admiral. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:29:18 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCB2J-00n000-01-Ct2.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:29:18 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCB2J-00n000-01-Ct2; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:18:35 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCB2J-00n000-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:18:35 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCB2I-0005FO-Tz for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:18:35 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5B781863DAF for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:18:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17862-02 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:18:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 320E386423D for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:18:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:17:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8DB1A863DAF for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:17:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17719-07 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:17:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 33571862671 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:17:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panther (backup.vigay.com [82.163.120.21]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m5RAHfAa031193 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:17:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Vigay To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:15:35 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb5f38bc2lists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: <4864AF79.5070208@btinternet.com> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com> <4fb5abd9d9lists-nospam@vigay.com> <486409A3.30108@btinternet.com> <4fb5e0cb9flists-nospam@vigay.com> <4864AF79.5070208@btinternet.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 X-No-Archive: yes Sensitivity: Private Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 926 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists-nospam@vigay.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=0xqhCTqKAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=P3qALc1iYTRHyU0vXjYA:9 a=Q8-2QvhlpRt4mEepu-EA:7 a=g7jiJn1E5KpBkpE33HHqSn9PEzYA:4 a=4SztSTlPBk4A:10 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1521] In a dim and distant universe <4864AF79.5070208@btinternet.com>, Phillip Marsden enlightened us thusly: [Snippety snip] > The statements that you make about Java in another post are a good > example. Major corporations are putting much money into developing major > applications in Java, I didn't say there weren't major applications, just that I don't think it is suitable for major applications. After all, there is only so much you can do inside your virtual machine plugin. > being restricted to a "walled garden", as if this is a bad point. The > promoters of Java call this security, I'm not knocking the security aspects of it, which are no doubt very good, and I'd agree with that aspect of things. I was talking about the actual user interface. The fact it's usually running in it's own self-contained window with it's own GUI (usually different to the host OS) doesn't help people to become more familiar with it, and also doesn't help it integrate seamlessly into the rest of the host GUI. It's this 'user experience' point I was trying to make. > have, and this has been attested by some of the most prolific developers > in the RISC OS field. I'm not talking about the *technical* merits though. To use an old car analogy, I'm talking about the bodywork, interior trim and comfort - not the specifications of the engine. The beauty of RISC OS is the user interface and experience for the end user. At the end of the day (and I've said this many times before), most users don't care whether a program is written in C, Java, ARM or BASIC, and probably don't even know - but if the program is unusable because it's let down by a poor GUI then people WILL notice, and see it as inferior, even if it's not. This is why I said I prefer OvPro on RISC OS to Windows. The Windows version may have more features or be "better" but as far as I'm concerned it's let down by the poor GUI. Case in point, one of my favourite applications on Mac OS is iTunes, and I have my entire CD collection stored within it. However, I simply can't bear Mac OS X in comparison to RISC OS - hence me taking the time and effort to write my ROTunes, so that I can use all the features of iTunes that I require, but on RISC OS. Many people might see this as a waste of time and a case of re-inventing the wheel, especially when I could just use the Mac. However, my preference of RISC OS outweighed the time and effort required in writing it, plus it helped contribute another application to the choice on RISC OS. Paul Vigay Editor, www.RISCOS.org -- Using, programming and promoting RISC OS - the most productive computer system in the world. Check it out now, and change your view of computers!! To reply/email, visit http://www.riscos.org/feedback/ The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:29:19 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCB5y-0JJ000-08-CpN.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:29:19 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCB5y-0JJ000-08-CpN; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:22:22 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCB5y-0JJ000-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:22:22 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCB5y-0002mV-JI for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:22:22 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id ED62F864100 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:22:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18076-08 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:22:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CAE4B864624 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:22:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:21:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 78128864100 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17969-06 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 41A728640AB for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:21:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KCB5J-000LyJ-Ca for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:21:42 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:20:04 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Ovation W to pdf References: <4861B963.2040201@internode.on.net> <$6SVHmCesqYIFw+1@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4862CF53.8090407@internode.on.net> <48641AF8.7010006@internode.on.net> In-Reply-To: <48641AF8.7010006@internode.on.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 927 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=guZDv20eFFoA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=qInVw--bF8Mu4uUVu3oA:9 a=VKuC1RjG_vUUjMkmHt0A:7 a=L9i1TPXPUtddrSfW8d_rbCHygeEA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1521] In message <48641AF8.7010006@internode.on.net>, Peter Prewett writes >I think it does mean though I have to remember to set the choices each >time I use Ovation Pro for Windows, as it is a global setting rather >than a document saving. Erm. Would it do any harm to leave direct PS on all the time? Obviously not for non-PS printers. Sometimes I think graphics look better using the Win PS drivers. Perhaps even that is a result of screening not being set up correctly in the documents. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 11:44:18 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCBLv-1Sz000-02-CZQ.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 11:44:18 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCBLv-1Sz000-02-CZQ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:38:51 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCBLv-1Sz000-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:38:51 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCBLu-0002Jy-Ih for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:38:50 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2B2EC864AB4 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:38:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19526-04 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:38:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DB1E9864B2C for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:38:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:38:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B2139864AB4 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:38:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19434-05 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:38:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5D74E864A88 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:38:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bach (88-134-110-224-dynip.superkabel.de [88.134.110.224]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mrelayeu5) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id 0ML25U-1KCBL82TMT-0005x9; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:38:02 +0200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: Import To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Martin Wuerthner X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:33:14 +0200 Message-ID: References: <4862EA9B.9030900@internode.on.net> <99685cb54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: MW Software User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1+z+HE81H3F7l5phH+IBY+a9wJGuu5uyOYHtJT TFqARc+q3tf88Az+jnoWlEGHv/2F4BqeP+WNXvwvc0+6RpkBnA 57ADGmVtBai4PLwPGC/TDPYaB/48Xqa X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 928 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: public@mw-software.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=LIwupVnwcry5TFJvABkA:9 a=ZFHiSSGWw831xaievSAA:7 a=a7o0csebjN1iVJZj9d1R5MN4ctsA:4 a=fl4ZfBcLCrEA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1521] In message David Pilling wrote: > In message <99685cb54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com>, Martin Wuerthner > writes >>Is OPW not able to do OLE2? That should allow it to directly embed any >>kind of file from other OLE compliant applications, e.g., Word, Excel, >>Xara Xtreme, etc. without the need for a filter. > No, OPW can't do OLE2. This is one of the long list of things that must > be done to make the program generally useful on Windows. > It would bring with it a lot of problems like does one attempt to > provide image processing, if not what happens to colour separations, > what about direct PostScript rendering. Yes, that is tricky. I suppose for image processing, colour separation and direct PostScript you could always render the embedded file into a bitmap and go on with that. Good enough for most purposes. The most important thing is that the user can still edit the embedded graphic in its original format. Martin -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wuerthner MW Software martin@mw-software.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 19:14:29 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCIIJ-1GQVbs-08-E9Y.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:14:29 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCIIJ-1GQVbs-08-E9Y; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:03:35 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCIIJ-1GQVbs-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:03:35 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCIIF-0001Ju-09 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:03:35 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 73FA08659AB for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31857-04 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4662C86592A for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:02:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 98F7E8659AB for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31501-03 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:02:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail1.extendcp.co.uk (mail1.mainnameserver.com [82.110.105.32]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0FBF386598F for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:02:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [91.125.64.202] (helo=standalone.xemik.com) by mail1.extendcp.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.42) id 1KCIHP-00074X-Vf for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:02:40 +0100 Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:35:14 +0100 From: Mik Towse To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4FB61BCC08%mik.towse@xemik.com> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com> <4fb5abd9d9lists-nospam@vigay.com> <486409A3.30108@btinternet.com> <4fb5e0cb9flists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: Xemik Solutions! Ltd User-Agent: Messenger-Pro 4.24 Mail-Followup-To: davidpilling@freelists.org X-Editor: Zap 1.45, using ZapEmail 0.26 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 929 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: mik.towse@xemik.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=R2OTYkJWAAAA:8 a=YLs-sxLQAAAA:8 a=bKMCzSZhAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=LTfN_DGbE98pRd77XKUA:9 a=6qy9jm5XH21dLge6b8MA:7 a=tW8L930_1q9gROJt3NgmNv3hJVkA:4 a=iq1J9U8f4swA:10 a=EcQXcao8HCYA:10 a=zzsEcnPJUfsA:10 a=bzKVVdKtbjEA:10 a=FeDn5ByjUKUA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1522] In article Ray Dawson wrote: > Word doesn't have limitations - the limitations are the lack of > understanding of the user. The latter comment has some truth in it, but the former certainly isn't true. I'd say a document editor which can't produce documents which are consistent between different computer setups using the same version is a pretty BIG limitation. But the biggest limitation by far is that it thinks it knows better than the user. Hm, come to think of it that's true of most Micro$oft s/w. > The latest version of Word makes it a lot easier to use and understand. > Word is a lot easier to understand than RISC OS's EasyWriter, which works > on similar principles. [snip] I haven't used this program called EasyWriter... ;-) But those of us who use Easiwriter wouldn't agree with you. IME Word is illogical in the way it works, Easiwriter is not. I've followed this thread with interest, but I have resisted joining in until now. One thing that strikes me as way off the mark is the argument that RISC OS isn't the best because it can't do many things others can. This is a false argument because the OS only provides the foundation for the applications that do the 'useful things'. (Perhaps someone ought to tell Micro$oft that!) I accept that RISC OS can't (easily) do all the things I need to do on a computer, so I use a RISCBook to use Windows progs where I need to. However, this does not negate the argument that RISC OS the best OS. RISC IS was designed with the user in mind. Windows is still catching up on that score! ;-) -- Mik Towse * mik.towse@xemik.com * http://www.xemik.co.uk/ My writers' site can be found at: http://www.lexis.org.uk xemik.net - cost effective web hosting : http://xemik.net Middle Age: Halfway between adolescence and obsolescence To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 19:44:30 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCIie-29NVbs-02-DjD.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:44:30 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCIie-29NVbs-02-DjD; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:30:48 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCIie-29NVbs-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:30:48 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCIid-0000pT-NQ for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:30:48 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 22CA4865A39 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:30:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01798-01 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:30:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E6414865A2D for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:30:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:30:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B5B42865A1B for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:30:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01625-03 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:30:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.o2.co.uk (sidious.london.02.net [82.132.130.152]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3225E865A21 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.68] (78.86.89.89) by mail.o2.co.uk (8.0.013.3) (authenticated as phillipmarsden@o2.co.uk) id 4863729D004BAE4B for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:30:04 +0100 Message-ID: <486531A7.2050700@btinternet.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:29:59 +0100 From: Phillip Marsden User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com> <4fb5abd9d9lists-nospam@vigay.com> <486409A3.30108@btinternet.com> <4fb5e0cb9flists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb5e7ce44lists-nospam@vigay.com> <4864AF36.4010902@btinternet.com> <4fb5f29a4clists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: <4fb5f29a4clists-nospam@vigay.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 930 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: phillip.marsden@btinternet.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=5W8gwLmW49t-MQQBEroA:9 a=CwDWsQqk4Ftp-QLCWhcA:7 a=9OkivgtaUPkeTiouZ_aEA0pCmcYA:4 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=ok68_o4NJqgA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1522] Paul Vigay wrote: > In a dim and distant universe <4864AF36.4010902@btinternet.com>, > Phillip Marsden enlightened us thusly: > > >> There are about 300 names in my programming agency database, which also >> has not been developed for years, but that does not mean that any of >> these agencies are still in business. >> > > By virtue of the fact emails don't bounce (or get returns as mailbox > over-quota) I assume that they're still in use. I also assume that if > people weren't interested, they'd unsubscribe. > > Anyway.... > > >> You state that you know of many people who run RISC OS and are unaware >> of other RISC OS users and do not use RISC OS forums. Let us accept that >> there are indeed thousands of these people, rather than a figment of >> your imagination. Why don't you contact these people and inform them of >> the joys of OPro and ask them to contact David Pilling? >> > > Oh I do. I usually end up having a long chat with them, and point them to > the various magazines, newsgroups and local usergroups in their area. > However, this is the slow way of finding the RISC OS users - as it relies > on them requiring help and happening to find my telephone number, which I > imagine would also be a small subset of potential users. > > >> I know that you will not consider passing on the details of these people >> to David Pilling so that he can mailshot them (privacy etc), so why >> don't you make the first move? If there is any substance at all to your >> claims, then this might result in extra sales for OPro (RISC OS or >> Windows) and indeed any other software that is being developed for RISC >> OS. >> > > >> Will you (can you) do this, or have I called your bluff? >> > > Oh indeed. If David would like me to include an Ovation flyer in any of my > mailshots, I'd be more than willing to include one. In fact, I just put a > RISC OS Now flyer in with a batch of Orpheus re-subscription renewals, > which I think resulted in about 4 new subscribers for RONow, just this > week. :-) > > In fact, if David has a flyer as a document, I'll even print it out for him > - can't say better than that. :-) > Paul, Your last statement is clear and unambiguous, which makes a change for you! David Pilling cannot complain at that one, but how many mailshots do you do, and to how many people? That is the big question. Your other statements are not so clear, as are your methods of counting the number of people who might be interested in OPro. That email addresses are still extant and are not being un-subscribed does not make the owners of those addresses interested in RISC OS. They may, like people in many other areas of life, simply receive them out of a sense of nostalgia. When you made your original statement that you knew that are thousands of prospective users for OPro, you didn't make it clear on what shaky grounds you were making that statement. For someone who is not used to your methods, it could have been taken that you knew of thousands of people, whereas what you really meant was that you have some (unquantified) number of email addresses that were at one time used by people who once had an interest in RISC OS. This does not equate to "thousands of prospective buyers of OPro". Whilst you may interpret my postings as being anti-RISC OS rant, I would interpret your postings as a vain attempt to talk up the prospects of RISC OS without substantial backing. What is really needed is a proper marketing campaign built on solid ideas. I am not a marketing person and I have no ideas in that arena, but I do know that what you put forward is insubstantial fluff that is of no use whatever. I do wish that something could be done about the situation of obtaining more interest in RISC OS. What RISC OS can do it does well and easily. I have no problems there, and if other people could see how easy it is to use RISC OS then they might be interested but (and it is a big BUT), once these people realise that there are many things that RISC OS cannot do because there is no software for these things, and that the hardware is not competitive in the modern world, then they will lose interest. Why buy a system which has to be cobbled and coaxed to do things that a Windows computer or Linux computer or Apple computer can do straight out of the box? That is the real problem and I feel that it is insurmountable, given the lack of development on the system, both software and hardware. While it is true that RISC OS Ltd are developing the desktop OS, where is the more powerful hardware to complement the OS? But where is the push to come from, to get RISC OS to the point where it can compete with other systems? One has to recognise that RISC OS is a commercial system. If the owners of RISC OS (whoever they are, I have lost track) are not mounting a sustained campaign of development of RISC OS and RISC OS hardware (which means ARM-based at the moment) and a sustained campaign of publicising the system then it indicates to most sensible people that the owners do not have much faith in their own product or perhaps they are not interested in the desktop market. The owners are not likely to lay out development costs unless they are confident of a return. This is normal commercial practice. It may be that if RISC OS was open-sourced, really open-sourced, not the current scheme, then those few people of sufficient capabilities might be interested in developing the system, and one day it might have proper (powerful) hardware on which to run. From the comments that I have seen, I doubt that the current scheme will allow this to happen. Now, Paul, if you wish to categorise my posting as an anti-RISC OS rant then so be it. It will indicate to me at least that you have lost the plot, as I think that I am in the camp of the realists. You can continue as you are, but I think that you are in the camp of the fantasists. Wanting something to happen will not necessarily make it happen. Saying that something will or can happen does not necessarily lead to that thing happening. -- Regards, Phillip Marsden For quality bespoke acoustic guitars phillip.marsden@btinternet.com To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 20:44:32 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCJqr-4OlVbs-08-Cb0.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:44:32 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCJqr-4OlVbs-08-Cb0; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:43:21 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCJqr-4OlVbs-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:43:21 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCJqq-0000RY-JD for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:43:21 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0B83D84E4AD for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:43:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09032-05 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:43:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D5A98863A75 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:43:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:42:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 368F184E4AD for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:42:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08947-04 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:42:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (zen.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.18]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DE1CB862671 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:42:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Ionyx. ([88.202.207.247]) by zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m5RJgN20001335 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:42:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Harrison To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:41:50 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future - (Word v EW sideline) Message-ID: <4fb6276344john@jaharrison.me.uk> In-Reply-To: <4FB61BCC08%mik.towse@xemik.com> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com> <4fb5abd9d9lists-nospam@vigay.com> <486409A3.30108@btinternet.com> <4fb5e0cb9flists-nospam@vigay.com> <4FB61BCC08%mik.towse@xemik.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.11) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 931 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: john@jaharrison.me.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=0MDDpWjrQTAA:10 a=bcn-AMedy7EA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=4RS4yEhqAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=DCi6yU9k_PHl3q9IN3kA:9 a=fEwaNwpjl1m52O8dg6AA:7 a=x6J-pUPL55SK49vRv0fsMG0b09EA:4 a=c5zHXd76wwQA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1522] > > Word is a lot easier to understand than RISC OS's EasyWriter, which > > works on similar principles. I've used Word for 20 years, on Mac and PC, and I have also used Easiwriter for at least 10 years. In both cases, I probably use and understand considerably more of their capability than the vast majority of users (certainly in the case of PC users). IME, very few people understand Word, and it is most certainly not 'easier to understand than EasiWriter'. Back in the days of Word 4 and 5 on the Mac (long before there was a half decent PC version) it was easier to understand, but in terms of comprehensibility, Word has gone steadily downwards since then. Both Word and EW can be used like typewriters (but if that's what you want, why use a powerful word processor). Both can get you into a fix if you use their more powerful facilities without understanding how they work (which many people do) and then compound things by manual tweaking to try to get what looks right (but which underneath is a confused mess). The fixes you get into with Word are different from those you get into with EW, because they use different structural models for documents. Word has some very useful features that EW doesn't have, and vice versa, so if you have got used to using one, then trying to use it on the other will either frustrate you because you can't, or cause you problems because it doesn't work. Of course if your brain has been conditioned by use of Windows to expect things to be laid out with Windows-style menus, then anything different will feel alien, but that is hardly a valid measure of what is 'easy to understand'. But this thread was about the future of O-Pro. I bought O-Pro to write a book that would have been impossible with either EW or Word, because of the way we wanted to organise the content. (Actually I might have bodged it with Word, but it would have been a nightmare to manage). O-Pro is not 'better' than EW; it is different. I would not dream of using it for the things I use EW for. John -- John Harrison - http://www.jaharrison.me.uk Message sent from a British built Iyonix PC running RISC-OS 5 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 21:44:34 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCKbE-12JGPo-01-Bqd.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 21:44:34 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCKbE-12JGPo-01-Bqd; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:31:16 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCKbE-12JGPo-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:31:16 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCKbE-0007aX-8p for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:31:16 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B1E75864CC6 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12888-04 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 89885865092 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:30:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B4806864CC6 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12776-04 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (zen.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.18]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 64B61864CAC for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from iyonix.orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk ([88.202.200.244]) by zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m5RKUIP5002030 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 21:30:19 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future - (Word v EW sideline) To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Alan Adams X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.42 Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 21:30:19 +0100 Message-ID: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com> <4fb5abd9d9lists-nospam@vigay.com> <486409A3.30108@btinternet.com> <4fb5e0cb9flists-nospam@vigay.com> <4FB61BCC08%mik.towse@xemik.com> <4fb6276344john@jaharrison.me.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb6276344john@jaharrison.me.uk> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.04 (MsgServe/3.35) (RISC-OS/5.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 932 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: alan@adamshome.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=0MDDpWjrQTAA:10 a=bcn-AMedy7EA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=Kc0a6QvqAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=G01tX-DS6Ne1NAOy3YkA:9 a=eAcURQPakIky1gHijBoA:7 a=OfG_0RfVpvlozIorBPs9SNE9rqUA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1522] In message <4fb6276344john@jaharrison.me.uk> John Harrison wrote: > But this thread was about the future of O-Pro. I bought O-Pro to write a > book that would have been impossible with either EW or Word, because of the > way we wanted to organise the content. (Actually I might have bodged it > with Word, but it would have been a nightmare to manage). O-Pro is not > 'better' than EW; it is different. I would not dream of using it for the > things I use EW for. I spent several years producing a magazine with Easiwriter, then switched to OPro. The difference it made in easy of use was enormous - not because of inherent difficulty in Easiwriter, but because I was trying to make it do what it wasn't designed for - put things in an exact position on the page and have them stay there, which is the biggest single gripe I have with Word also. On the other hand if I was writing a book, and wanted text flow throughout the document to be automatic, styles to be constant throughout, footnotes etc... Easiwriter would be a better choice. (I would probably use OPro however because these days I know it a lot better.) In the course of my work I've had occasion to demonstrate OPro to several teachers, usually just after they've been struggling to teach DTP using Word. They are delighted, until it comes to the price. Office Pro costs a school about 40 pounds a copy - educational discounts - and OPro costs 100 pounds IN ADDITION, as they cannot be without Excel and Word. The price these days includes Publisher, which is bundled with Office PRO in 2003 and later editions, so if they want to do a proper job on DTP they have the tools already. Nobody should underestimate the value of educational discounts - what people use in school and college they will demand at work as well, which is where the real money is made. -- Alan Adams, from Northamptonshire alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Fri Jun 27 21:44:34 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCKmj-1QQGPo-02-Bf8.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 21:44:34 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCKmj-1QQGPo-02-Bf8; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:43:09 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCKmj-1QQGPo-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:43:09 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCKmi-0006NE-N2 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:43:09 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 39E01863204 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14164-04 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 197E0863FDA for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:43:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:42:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 38838863204 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:42:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13863-09 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:42:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 080968633CE for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:42:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from charleshope.demon.co.uk ([80.177.174.79] helo=iyonix) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KCKm4-000GEY-J7 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:42:29 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: charles To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 21:42:25 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future - (Word v EW sideline) Message-ID: <4fb62cef78charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4e5fc8amonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb56baaeemonster@caverock.net.nz> <4863EA71.7070303@btinternet.com> <4fb5abd9d9lists-nospam@vigay.com> <486409A3.30108@btinternet.com> <4fb5e0cb9flists-nospam@vigay.com> <4FB61BCC08%mik.towse@xemik.com> <4fb6276344john@jaharrison.me.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 933 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=0MDDpWjrQTAA:10 a=bcn-AMedy7EA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=AFuBOiqJxod7BESLaewA:9 a=l7CnbrQLTII2I6sRjqsA:7 a=pm40BWlOFejb1lTKhDEYA7agonAA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.1/1522] In article , Alan Adams wrote: > [Snip] > Nobody should underestimate the value of educational discounts - what > people use in school and college they will demand at work as well, > which is where the real money is made. which is, of course, why there are "Educational Discounts". ;-( -- >From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey" Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 12:12:47 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCLLW-2QVGPo-06-B6L.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; 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d="scan'208";a="103941963" X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from 79-69-244-102.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com (HELO helvellyn) ([79.69.244.102]) by smtp.f2s.tiscali.co.uk with ESMTP; 27 Jun 2008 22:18:25 +0100 Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:06:43 +0100 From: Steve Fryatt To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) Message-ID: References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <4fb58e94bajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4fb5ac455alists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb5e19fa6lists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: <4fb5e19fa6lists-nospam@vigay.com> X-Organization: Home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.05 X-Editor: Zap 1.47 (20 Aug 2005) [TEST], ZapEmail 0.28.3 (25 Mar 2005) (32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 934 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists@stevefryatt.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=lYlwcvj8AAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=ox4B4xvcD4H2_9DqeI0A:9 a=mVxT025sZpf1UjsF-WIA:7 a=g8jNXkcyPyaGGVKQhjXNovS-OlsA:4 a=MVlnOHnAQ0oA:10 a=bzKVVdKtbjEA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] On 27 Jun, Paul Vigay wrote in message <4fb5e19fa6lists-nospam@vigay.com>: > In a dim and distant universe , > Ray Dawson enlightened us thusly: [Personal Accountz is written in Java] > > The point about running in Java is that it is portable between OSs > > capable of running recent Java - which of course excludes RISC OS. > > Yes, but you're missing another major fundamental point. With Java you > end up with everything within a walled garden and the user interface is > horrible. Huh? Have you ever /seen/ a copy of Personal Accountz, Paul? -- Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 12:12:53 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCLz8-0UX000-08-ASj.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:12:53 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCLz8-0UX000-08-ASj; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:00:02 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCLz8-0UX000-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:00:02 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCLz7-0004PD-8n for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:00:02 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9800B864D45 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19707-02 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6B679864E13 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:59:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:59:20 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0E262864D45 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:59:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19602-01 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.o2.co.uk (sidious.london.02.net [82.132.130.152]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A30C4864D15 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.68] (78.86.89.89) by mail.o2.co.uk (8.0.013.3) (authenticated as phillipmarsden@o2.co.uk) id 4863729D0053A29E for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:59:18 +0100 Message-ID: <486562B1.3040906@btinternet.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:59:13 +0100 From: Phillip Marsden User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <4fb58e94bajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4fb5ac455alists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb5e19fa6lists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 935 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: phillip.marsden@btinternet.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=gnFdm0uNdLdxYi98PvkA:9 a=OL_bYOJbBo2hM3juXqkA:7 a=x1VGotaNYlPtj2680aN4dB9bLB0A:4 a=MVlnOHnAQ0oA:10 a=bzKVVdKtbjEA:10 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=ufO146cb3fEA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] Steve Fryatt wrote: > On 27 Jun, Paul Vigay wrote in message > <4fb5e19fa6lists-nospam@vigay.com>: > > >> In a dim and distant universe , >> Ray Dawson enlightened us thusly: >> > > [Personal Accountz is written in Java] > > >>> The point about running in Java is that it is portable between OSs >>> capable of running recent Java - which of course excludes RISC OS. >>> >> Yes, but you're missing another major fundamental point. With Java you >> end up with everything within a walled garden and the user interface is >> horrible. >> > > > > Huh? Have you ever /seen/ a copy of Personal Accountz, Paul? > I haven't seen a copy of Personal Accountz, so I do not know what it looks like. I am willing to bet that Paul's response will be that he was referring to Java user interfaces in general. This will neatly side-step the issue of him having seen or used Personal Accountz. :o( -- Regards, Phillip Marsden For quality bespoke acoustic guitars phillip.marsden@btinternet.com To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 12:12:53 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCM10-0WX000-03-AQr.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:12:53 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCM10-0WX000-03-AQr; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:01:58 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCM10-0WX000-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:01:58 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCM0z-0007cP-Qj for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:01:58 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 62769864BF8 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:01:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19805-05 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:01:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 356DB864CFC for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:01:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:01:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4D05B864BF8 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:01:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 19689-10 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:01:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id ED05A864AE9 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:01:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panther (backup.vigay.com [82.163.120.21]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m5RM0lhg005327 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:00:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Vigay To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:00:59 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) Message-ID: <4fb63420e0lists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <4fb58e94bajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4fb5ac455alists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb5e19fa6lists-nospam@vigay.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 X-No-Archive: yes Sensitivity: Private Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 936 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists-nospam@vigay.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=0xqhCTqKAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=RQyXdU4Ry71Y4mXrK8MA:9 a=g8ovFylfdDFF2nFb9AQA:7 a=Cxv5voCNY5qIcxgvC2GT38LOJ9sA:4 a=4SztSTlPBk4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] In a dim and distant universe , Steve Fryatt enlightened us thusly: > Huh? Have you ever /seen/ a copy of Personal Accountz, Paul? I've seen a copy of the current Accountz yes. Mainly because a friend wanted an accounts package and I recommended Prophet, but as that's not available anymore (and he also has a PC) he bought a copy of Accountz. He then phoned me up saying he didn't think it was very good - so I went round to have a look - which is when I was shocked to see how slow it was. Paul Vigay Editor, www.RISCOS.org -- Using, programming and promoting RISC OS - the most productive computer system in the world. Check it out now, and change your view of computers!! To reply/email, visit http://www.riscos.org/feedback/ I got a sweater for Christmas. I really wanted a screamer or a moaner. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 12:12:53 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCM6K-0eD000-01-ALX.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:12:53 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCM6K-0eD000-01-ALX; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:07:28 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCM6K-0eD000-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:07:28 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCM6K-0007iZ-Dv for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:07:28 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 84B65864D74 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:07:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20177-09 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:07:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5D4DF864F97 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:07:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:06:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5757B864ED8 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:06:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20064-02 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:06:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.o2.co.uk (vader.london.02.net [82.132.130.150]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 06EAF864E70 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.68] (78.86.89.89) by mail.o2.co.uk (8.0.013.3) (authenticated as phillipmarsden@o2.co.uk) id 486370040054013D for davidpilling@freelists.org; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:06:47 +0100 Message-ID: <48656472.8010706@btinternet.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:06:42 +0100 From: Phillip Marsden User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <4fb58e94bajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4fb5ac455alists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb5e19fa6lists-nospam@vigay.com> <486562B1.3040906@btinternet.com> In-Reply-To: <486562B1.3040906@btinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 937 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: phillip.marsden@btinternet.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=TGTQ87jLZ53iWw6AVjUA:9 a=CYFhEGZz1Va03IQDsDMA:7 a=Ju51gdWtVr0SMTWq9liFEkuwwLwA:4 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=p0kJo7hkFkYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] Phillip Marsden wrote: > Steve Fryatt wrote: >> [snip] >> >> >> Huh? Have you ever /seen/ a copy of Personal Accountz, Paul? >> > > I haven't seen a copy of Personal Accountz, so I do not know what it > looks like. I am willing to bet that Paul's response will be that he > was referring to Java user interfaces in general. This will neatly > side-step the issue of him having seen or used Personal Accountz. :o( Update. I have just looked at the website for Accountz. The screenshots look ok to me. The Windows version seems to be using the later Windows XP or Vista look and feel, but nonetheless it seems quite tidy to me. To a closed-mind bigot it might very well look awful. ;o) (I must confess to being fond of the Windows Classic look, and I always have that theme switched on in XP. Call me old-fashioned if you like). -- Regards, Phillip Marsden For quality bespoke acoustic guitars phillip.marsden@btinternet.com To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 12:12:54 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCMPC-173000-03-A2f.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:12:54 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCMPC-173000-03-A2f; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:26:58 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCMPC-173000-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:26:58 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCMPC-0004zI-AS for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 22:26:58 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B93D0865078 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22098-01 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8AF42864871 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:26:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3C80A864E2C for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:26:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21969-08 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:26:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.48]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CADCC864988 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:26:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080627223104.KOBS7070.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:31:04 +0100 Received: from [192.168.0.100] (really [82.28.88.234]) by aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080627223614.YBDG8797.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[192.168.0.100]> for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:36:14 +0100 Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:19:57 +0100 From: Ray Dawson To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4fb63420e0lists-nospam@vigay.com> References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <4fb58e94bajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4fb5ac455alists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb5e19fa6lists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb63420e0lists-nospam@vigay.com> Mail-Followup-To: davidpilling@freelists.org X-Organization: MagRay User-Agent: Gemini/2.29l (Qt/3.3.8) (Windows-Vista) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 938 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: ray@raydawson.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=w3-9jWSjAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=cAo1YyQGf7RDGrjg3FMA:9 a=olaA0A2nLrM4xJLnQGUA:7 a=YpTMNhNCiVLIKQHVFRmCWhne3XwA:4 a=MVlnOHnAQ0oA:10 a=ok68_o4NJqgA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] Paul Vigay wrote: > In a dim and distant universe > , > Steve Fryatt enlightened us thusly: > > > Huh? Have you ever /seen/ a copy of Personal Accountz, Paul? > > I've seen a copy of the current Accountz yes. Mainly because a friend > wanted an accounts package and I recommended Prophet, but as that's not > available anymore (and he also has a PC) he bought a copy of Accountz. > He then phoned me up saying he didn't think it was very good - so I went > round to have a look - which is when I was shocked to see how slow it > was. It's strange how you can slow down any Windows running computer that you get your hands on ;-) As the owner of a copy of Personal Accountz I can assure you it isn't at all slow - in fact it's one of the fastest Windows programs I've ever come across to load up. In operation it is certainly very quick in everything it does. As for the GUI, http://www.accountz.com/pazsc.pdf will give you screenshots. I presume that, as it was considered as an alternative to Prophet - which is slow - your friend was actually using Business Accountz and not Personal Accountz. Although I no longer use BA and traded down to PA, I can assure you that BA is just as quick as PA on a half decent Windows machine. I can't really see why software such as Ovation Pro shouldn't run under Java and be portable between OSs - which is where we came in. Cheers, Ray D To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 12:13:00 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCV5f-1u2Vbs-08-9si.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:13:00 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCV5f-1u2Vbs-08-9si; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:43:23 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCV5f-1u2Vbs-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:43:23 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCV5e-0005yb-VP for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:43:23 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 66429863646 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 03:43:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20505-08 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 03:43:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3CFF1863C83 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 03:43:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 28 Jun 2008 03:42:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B4295863646 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 03:42:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20451-04 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 03:42:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.o2.co.uk (vader.london.02.net [82.132.130.150]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 68E218635C6 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 03:42:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.64] (78.86.89.89) by mail.o2.co.uk (8.0.013.3) (authenticated as phillipmarsden@o2.co.uk) id 4863700400614B79 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:42:42 +0100 Message-ID: <4865EB6E.20505@btinternet.com> Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:42:38 +0100 From: Phillip Marsden User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <4fb58e94bajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4fb5ac455alists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb5e19fa6lists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb63420e0lists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: <4fb63420e0lists-nospam@vigay.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 939 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: phillip.marsden@btinternet.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=oslYhxNTuiqH1kvti_sA:9 a=r1z1qZnbbvExw3qsl_kA:7 a=nyyUcydr3NzSXrzp0bVCPPuKkioA:4 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=ok68_o4NJqgA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] Paul Vigay wrote: > In a dim and distant universe > , > Steve Fryatt enlightened us thusly: > > >> Huh? Have you ever /seen/ a copy of Personal Accountz, Paul? >> > > I've seen a copy of the current Accountz yes. Mainly because a friend > wanted an accounts package and I recommended Prophet, but as that's not > available anymore (and he also has a PC) he bought a copy of Accountz. He > then phoned me up saying he didn't think it was very good - so I went round > to have a look - which is when I was shocked to see how slow it was. > Thus neatly side-stepping the issue of appearance, which is what you passed comment about. What did I tell you Steve (Fryatt)? He found a way to side-step your question. Come on, Paul, tell us why this product in particular and Java applications in general are dreadful in appearance. Also tell us why Java applications should be dreadful in appearance simply because they are written in Java. -- Regards, Phillip Marsden For quality bespoke acoustic guitars phillip.marsden@btinternet.com To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 12:13:00 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCVWn-2btVbs-03-9Ra.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:13:00 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCVWn-2btVbs-03-9Ra; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:11:25 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCVWn-2btVbs-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:11:25 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCVWm-0005me-P9 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:11:25 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 333F0864AF5 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:11:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21540-01 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:11:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 04EC086490E for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:11:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:10:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4BC7E864A90 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:10:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 21449-01 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:10:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relay.freeuk.net (relay.freeuk.net [212.126.144.54]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 163C78648E0 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:10:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from du-002-0113.freeuk.com ([212.126.156.113] helo=bbailey.freeuk.com.) by relay.freeuk.net with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1KCVW6-0001ft-8Z for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:10:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Brian Bailey To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:09:24 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 940 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: bbailey@argonet.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=T8g_0WMtRj4CCEpLCfsA:9 a=_AfjDiMdt6l0dAiXfu4A:7 a=cpz6HDilF-1SN6ebGy-UQxLPmJkA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] In article , David Pilling wrote: [snip] Some of the things you have said here leave me more than somewhat baffled, more so as this thread has 'progressed'. > One problem is that there is an awful lot that could be added. Ask 20 > different people and you'll get 20 different suggestions, all of them > reasonable. True, but a list hasn't been forthcoming so far. > The problem is that there is no single improvement which would make the > program instantly viable. > My current disillusion with Windows is due to the realisation that years > of work are now needed just to add the basic requirements. That seems to be more than slightly paradoxical. Surely, the development of OvatPro has already progressed well beyond what might be called the basic requirements. It would, therefore, be interesting to know what you have in mind. > Often in the past people have said "add feature A and I will buy it", > having added A they then turn around and say "do you seriously expect me > to use a program that lacks feature B". Yes. > >Why not make DDL standard OvPro format and leave the binary one for > >loading legacy documents? > Because for most users this would make no difference. Here I profoundly disagree. I think that /might/ apply to current users, in the main, but the very constraint offered by legacy file formats is I feel the very reason preventing the expansion of the use of RISC OS software on this and other platforms. It is certainly a significant obstacle to my current work and is costing me more than just a little in time, effort and money in overcoming problems. It occurs to me to speculate whether a form of open sourcing of OvatPro, similar to Iyonix open sourcing of RISC OS 5, retaining some commercial control of the code, but allowing others to continue further development, might work. Just thinking out loud. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 12:13:01 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCVn4-356Vbs-04-9BJ.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:13:01 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCVn4-356Vbs-04-9BJ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:28:14 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCVn4-356Vbs-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:28:14 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCVn3-00048V-Mz for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:28:14 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CCF1F864A94 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22496-01 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9D207864B2C for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:27:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 080CF864AAE for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:27:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22391-01 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:27:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id AFB08863831 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:27:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panther (backup.vigay.com [82.163.120.21]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m5S8RJxp012023 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:27:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Vigay To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:27:08 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) Message-ID: <4fb66d7445lists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: <4865EB6E.20505@btinternet.com> References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <4fb58e94bajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4fb5ac455alists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb5e19fa6lists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb63420e0lists-nospam@vigay.com> <4865EB6E.20505@btinternet.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 X-No-Archive: yes Sensitivity: Private Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 941 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists-nospam@vigay.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=0xqhCTqKAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=U3-6tp-BMsDcBTJv_pMA:9 a=ayYGN4TxnlU2gOa1ETYA:7 a=Rh2_Wz1vtvYU9miNOx7XZR0LwJ8A:4 a=4SztSTlPBk4A:10 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] In a dim and distant universe <4865EB6E.20505@btinternet.com>, Phillip Marsden enlightened us thusly: > Thus neatly side-stepping the issue of appearance, which is what you > passed comment about. What did I tell you Steve (Fryatt)? He found a way > to side-step your question. I wasn't commenting about appearance, other than the fact the Java engine generally runs in a self-contained window which offers little integration with the host GUI. My main criticism of Java (in my experience) is the speed. Paul Vigay Editor, www.RISCOS.org -- Using, programming and promoting RISC OS - the most productive computer system in the world. Check it out now, and change your view of computers!! To reply/email, visit http://www.riscos.org/feedback/ Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway... To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 12:13:01 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCVv3-3IGVbs-06-93K.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:13:01 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCVv3-3IGVbs-06-93K; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:36:29 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.95] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCVv3-3IGVbs-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:36:29 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCVv2-000053-S2 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 08:36:29 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4A7A5864B2D for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:36:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22952-02 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:36:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 20344864AB2 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:36:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:35:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 72262864B43 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22812-07 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pih-relay05.plus.net (pih-relay05.plus.net [212.159.14.132]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 36CC3864B42 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 04:35:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [80.229.238.131] (helo=ASCENSION) by pih-relay05.plus.net with esmtpa (Exim) id 1KCVuO-0004t1-Ur for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:35:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ned Abell To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:32:01 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) Message-ID: <4fb66de696nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <4865EB6E.20505@btinternet.com> References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <4fb58e94bajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4fb5ac455alists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb5e19fa6lists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb63420e0lists-nospam@vigay.com> <4865EB6E.20505@btinternet.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 Content-Type: text/plain X-Plusnet-Relay: f824f4b1d44d12e804472cc4b6216301 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 942 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=2DOh8qlJxttlu8_jgKsA:9 a=GzZ5rq1mA-6nRy1v-yoA:7 a=y79Rd7susmE2-25TdGf-8JpsycIA:4 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] On 28 Jun, Phillip Marsden wrote: > Paul Vigay wrote: > > In a dim and distant universe > > , Steve > > Fryatt enlightened us thusly: > > > > > >> Huh? Have you ever /seen/ a copy of Personal Accountz, > >> Paul? > >> > > > > I've seen a copy of the current Accountz yes. Mainly > > because a friend wanted an accounts package and I > > recommended Prophet, but as that's not available anymore > > (and he also has a PC) he bought a copy of Accountz. He > > then phoned me up saying he didn't think it was very good > > - so I went round to have a look - which is when I was > > shocked to see how slow it was. > > > Thus neatly side-stepping the issue of appearance, which is > what you passed comment about. What did I tell you Steve > (Fryatt)? He found a way to side-step your question. > Come on, Paul, tell us why this product in particular and > Java applications in general are dreadful in appearance. > Also tell us why Java applications should be dreadful in > appearance simply because they are written in Java. No please don't. Its not relevant to Davids software as we dont have a modern Java interpreter and the tone of your recent postings has been over agressive. If you both wish to debate it take it to email. Fin -- besters.. Ned === skype:nedabell To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From robin-phillips@talktalk.net Sun Jun 29 12:13:01 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCWRG-4FGVbs-08-8X7.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:13:01 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCWRG-4FGVbs-08-8X7; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:09:46 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCWRG-4FGVbs-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:09:46 +0000 Received: from [62.24.128.231] (helo=smtp.talktalk.net) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCWRG-0001Kr-Aj for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:09:46 +0000 X-Path: TTSMTP X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgFwAD6dZUhOlkQHPGdsb2JhbACMB4ZkAQEBAS2eCgM Received: from unknown (HELO iyonix) ([78.150.68.7]) by smtp.talktalk.net with SMTP; 28 Jun 2008 10:09:31 +0100 Subject: Automatic Paragraph numbering - a query To: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk From: Robin Phillips X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.10 Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:42:08 +0100 Message-ID: <91d36eb64f.rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/3.29 (MsgServe/3.10) (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=ccGfRrOd3GkA:10 a=xlA+ehpE0GQ6HEsVWNjG7Q==:17 a=nGaxoytkAC5wem0sDGkA:9 a=jKvU3CuB2DMh6hvt-m-xudKkowkA:4 a=lcRX6oYgArUA:10 a=muIvw5a9-cgA:10 a=gi0PWCVxevcA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] I have to transfer to another person (who uses microsoft) a fair number of files which are the minutes of an organisattion's meetings. When writing those minutes I used the feature which automatically inserts paragraph numbers wherever a CR is used. I find that when I convert that type of file into RTF and send it by e-mail the recipient finds there are NO paragraph numbers visible. What should I do to alter the file so that the numbers can be seen by the recipient? TIA Robin Phillips. -- Robin Phillips, NG9 1BT PLEASE NOTE MY NEW E-MAIL IS: robin-phillips@talktalk.net. From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 12:13:04 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCX5T-0kxGPo-06-GPQ.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:13:04 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCX5T-0kxGPo-06-GPQ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:51:19 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCX5T-0kxGPo-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:51:19 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCX5Q-0006uw-5E for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:51:19 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A7B1E864056 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:51:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26539-05 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:51:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7ABCB8643E6 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:51:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:50:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E390C864056 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:50:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26416-09 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:50:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.o2.co.uk (yoda.london.02.net [82.132.130.151]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6C448863A57 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:50:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.68] (78.86.89.89) by mail.o2.co.uk (8.0.013.3) (authenticated as phillipmarsden@o2.co.uk) id 486371890064F35F for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 10:50:35 +0100 Message-ID: <48660966.80707@btinternet.com> Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 10:50:30 +0100 From: Phillip Marsden User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <4fb58e94bajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4fb5ac455alists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb5e19fa6lists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb63420e0lists-nospam@vigay.com> <4865EB6E.20505@btinternet.com> <4fb66de696nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb66de696nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 943 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: phillip.marsden@btinternet.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=NwNL9Bbjgfl64N2f-3AA:9 a=yPD4x6ew10iTQgTLhHQA:7 a=O1o567irsp8bcCeV3om9dhukxm4A:4 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=7fDRFdMZ_OEA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] Ned Abell wrote: > On 28 Jun, Phillip Marsden > wrote: > >> Paul Vigay wrote: >> >>> In a dim and distant universe >>> , Steve >>> Fryatt enlightened us thusly: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Huh? Have you ever /seen/ a copy of Personal Accountz, >>>> Paul? >>>> >>>> >>> I've seen a copy of the current Accountz yes. Mainly >>> because a friend wanted an accounts package and I >>> recommended Prophet, but as that's not available anymore >>> (and he also has a PC) he bought a copy of Accountz. He >>> then phoned me up saying he didn't think it was very good >>> - so I went round to have a look - which is when I was >>> shocked to see how slow it was. >>> >>> > > >> Thus neatly side-stepping the issue of appearance, which is >> what you passed comment about. What did I tell you Steve >> (Fryatt)? He found a way to side-step your question. >> > > >> Come on, Paul, tell us why this product in particular and >> Java applications in general are dreadful in appearance. >> Also tell us why Java applications should be dreadful in >> appearance simply because they are written in Java. >> > > No please don't. > Its not relevant to Davids software as we dont have a modern > Java interpreter and the tone of your recent postings has been > over agressive. If you both wish to debate it take it to > email. > > Fin I agree that Java is not relevant to David's software on RISC OS, but this thread has covered many things including OPro on Windows and Linux where Java would be relevant, as suggested by someone other than myself. I can assure that I am not being aggressive. I am being calm and collected. That I am wanting a straight answer from a person who cannot give a straight answer makes things very difficult. Paul is a well-regarded member of the RISC OS community and his words are taken as gospel by many of the less-technical people around here. In order not to put the whole RISC OS community in a bad light he should learn to give a more considered and accurate view rather than the splather that he comes out with. Why do I say splather? Because time and again he makes statements and is taken to task by the more technical of our community. Time and again he is proved incorrect in his statements, and the only answer he has is to try to deny what he has said. Paul is a decent bloke, but he lets himself down by making wild assertions. -- Regards, Phillip Marsden For quality bespoke acoustic guitars phillip.marsden@btinternet.com To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 12:13:04 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCX6E-0lvGPo-03-GOf.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:13:04 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCX6E-0lvGPo-03-GOf; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:52:06 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCX6E-0lvGPo-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:52:06 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCX6D-0001bB-Sl for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 09:52:06 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 40BF3864071 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26632-03 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1783A864433 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:51:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1447B864071 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:51:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26539-06 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:51:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.o2.co.uk (vader.london.02.net [82.132.130.150]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A1980864056 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 05:51:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [192.168.1.68] (78.86.89.89) by mail.o2.co.uk (8.0.013.3) (authenticated as phillipmarsden@o2.co.uk) id 4863700400652362 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 10:51:25 +0100 Message-ID: <4866099B.6000103@btinternet.com> Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 10:51:23 +0100 From: Phillip Marsden User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: OP on Linux (revisited) References: <4fb45c38bbnedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <0Mv3a1GrjNYIFwti@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4fb4f0a308jack@ljsevans.co.uk> <606014b54f.roger@roger.red-squirrel.com> <4fb5676501nedabell@weatherpost.org.uk> <172079b54f.martin@bach.planiverse.com> <4fb58e94bajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4fb5ac455alists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb5e19fa6lists-nospam@vigay.com> <4fb63420e0lists-nospam@vigay.com> <4865EB6E.20505@btinternet.com> <4fb66d7445lists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: <4fb66d7445lists-nospam@vigay.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 944 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: phillip.marsden@btinternet.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cLfaQ7CIZxwA:10 a=bjfFOPuKD5UA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=1eK29L92a5IQ0vmDtx8A:9 a=cQewzlPHewqiE4B4P9IA:7 a=Fqkgw9mSHnfNUEfiTxreaaL63EwA:4 a=Nr7Pmq0tdocA:10 a=ok68_o4NJqgA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] Paul Vigay wrote: > In a dim and distant universe <4865EB6E.20505@btinternet.com>, > Phillip Marsden enlightened us thusly: > > >> Thus neatly side-stepping the issue of appearance, which is what you >> passed comment about. What did I tell you Steve (Fryatt)? He found a way >> to side-step your question. >> > > I wasn't commenting about appearance, other than the fact the Java engine > generally runs in a self-contained window which offers little integration > with the host GUI. > > My main criticism of Java (in my experience) is the speed. > > Ah, but, but... "With Java you end up with everything within a walled garden and the user interface is horrible." That indicates to me (at least) that you are saying that the appearance of Java user interfaces is not very good (horrible). Is there something in THIS sentence (not in a sentence you wrote several years ago and has no relevance to this discussion) that I have misunderstood? Does the phrase "the user interface is horrible" not mean that the graphical appearance is not good? I am sorry to keep banging on about this Paul, but I am trying to make the point that you try to deny that you have said things, because someone has successfully rebutted one of your wild claims. You may not see it this way, as this behaviour seems ingrained in you. You should realise that while you want to be an ambassador for RISC OS, you make yourself appear to be an unreliable source of information. This is the reason why posters on the RISC OS forums have said that you are not the best person to be an ambassador for RISC OS. Perhaps you should take time to reflect on this, rather than just banging out anything that happens to come into your head because you feel impelled to leap to the defence of RISC OS. -- Regards, Phillip Marsden For quality bespoke acoustic guitars phillip.marsden@btinternet.com To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 12:13:27 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCfp3-3YCVbs-07-GCM.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:13:27 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCfp3-3YCVbs-07-GCM; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 19:10:57 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCfp3-3YCVbs-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 19:10:57 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCfp2-0001kM-Lr for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 19:10:56 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 232D8864716 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:10:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30506-08 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:10:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id ED042864C41 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:10:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:10:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4102E864716 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:10:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30404-08 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:10:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relay.freeuk.net (relay.freeuk.net [212.126.144.54]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0B888864050 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:10:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ludo.freeuk.net ([212.126.144.9]) by relay.freeuk.net with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1KCfoO-000AFC-9L for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 20:10:16 +0100 Received: from ludo.freeuk.net (localhost.freeuk.net [127.0.0.1]) by ludo.freeuk.net (8.13.3/8.12.11) with ESMTP id m5SJAGSs069215 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 20:10:16 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from bonytaker@freeuk.com) Received: (from claranet@localhost) by ludo.freeuk.net (8.13.3/8.12.11/Submit) id m5SJAGEW069214; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 20:10:16 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from bonytaker@freeuk.com) Message-Id: <200806281910.m5SJAGEW069214@ludo.freeuk.net> X-Authentication-Warning: ludo.freeuk.net: claranet set sender to bonytaker@freeuk.com using -f References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4880549bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <200806251828.m5PIS0Y5004686@ludo.freeuk.net> <4fb51efc01john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb51efc01john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> From: "Anthony Baker" To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 20:10:16 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Remote_Addr: 86.5.36.250 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 945 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: bonytaker@freeuk.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=2HcyxPd2-u9wb3y1KDUA:9 a=yYsQN3oaNw9YOQ4J-UQA:7 a=xFChzn4lXDXRZn0R7OPw9ffYeTEA:4 a=zlPwTsyquw4A:10 a=zUBsD6tbDSsA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] John Cartmell writes: > On 25 Jun, Anthony Baker wrote: >> As you say there is no more future in the wonderful Acorn Platform and you >> would be wasting your time. > > You are both quite wrong in your assessment and quite wrong to agree to your > joint pessimism. David may not be working on a future for RISC OS (but I wish > he would) but other people are. I intend to use RISC OS machines in my > retirement and that's still some time off. And I don't intend using the > current hardware and OS either! ;-) > > -- > John > To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling > John I don't think that you quite understand the point that I was making. I can't speak for David, but I am suggesting that for anyone who makes a living writing software is on a hiding to nothing if he continues to persevere with RiscOS. he will soon be a very poor man. For myself I will contine to use RiscOS for as long as my machines allow. Very best wishes to David and all in the Acorn community, and long may they continue. Tony Baker To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 12:13:27 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCfvC-3hMVbs-03-G6D.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:13:27 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCfvC-3hMVbs-03-G6D; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 19:17:18 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCfvC-3hMVbs-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 19:17:18 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCfvC-00036J-5Y for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 19:17:18 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 66D40864A2F for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31173-04 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 484B3863E2A for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:16:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6095F864A2F for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:16:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30989-08 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:16:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.87]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2FC628645E0 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:16:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from charleshope.demon.co.uk ([80.177.174.79] helo=iyonix) by anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) id 1KCfuW-0006Rs-PV for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 19:16:37 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: charles To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2008 20:16:41 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb6a8ebcecharles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <200806281910.m5SJAGEW069214@ludo.freeuk.net> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb4880549bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <200806251828.m5PIS0Y5004686@ludo.freeuk.net> <4fb51efc01john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <200806281910.m5SJAGEW069214@ludo.freeuk.net> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 946 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=eADIFBkBfDMp2mQaAvMA:9 a=bsKVPNRuqeE3G5C-GEMA:7 a=1xPNhv-FF93ISFpZEzEvM9oElVEA:4 a=zlPwTsyquw4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] In article <200806281910.m5SJAGEW069214@ludo.freeuk.net>, Anthony Baker wrote: [Snip] > but I am suggesting that for anyone who makes a > living writing software is on a hiding to nothing if he continues to > persevere with RiscOS. he will soon be a very poor man. Martin Wuerthner seems to be managing ok ;) -- >From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey" Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 12:13:37 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCmZf-44t000-01-9Rk.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:13:37 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCmZf-44t000-01-9Rk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 02:23:31 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCmZf-44t000-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 02:23:31 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCmZf-0001RI-7l for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 02:23:31 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id AAB8B86431C for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 22:23:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25174-01 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 22:23:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7E9D0864320 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 22:23:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sat, 28 Jun 2008 22:22:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7144E86431C for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 22:22:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 25052-04 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 22:22:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp11.dentaku.gol.com (smtp11.dentaku.gol.com [203.216.5.73]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 311E48642B3 for ; Sat, 28 Jun 2008 22:22:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=webmail.gol.com) by smtp11.dentaku.gol.com with smtp (Dentaku) id 1KCmYz-0004zT-Gu for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:22:49 +0900 Received: from 222.146.169.117 (auth. user plattir@pp.mail.gol.com) by webmail.gol.com with HTTP; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 02:22:49 +0000 To: "davidpilling@freelists.org" Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 02:22:49 +0000 X-Mailer: IlohaMail/0.8.14 (On: webmail.gol.com) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4863E217.30803@ed.ac.uk> From: "Ian Platt" Bounce-To: "Ian Platt" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV GOL (outbound) X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 947 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: plattir@gol.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=eUApFiLffDsoKRODhRMA:9 a=_sQJzvSBPr_se35UAIIA:7 a=_X4FXA7ov32DeIQHrJpsaVGLoWEA:4 a=eFmMTfMF8WMA:10 a=c5zHXd76wwQA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] 2008ª®¢´6·«Â26©¡«äª±ªØ¢ð¡Þ¢ðªÂ"Clive Bonsall" ¢ðªÂ\«¡¢Â¼\«³¢ðª³¢ð«²¢ð«³¢ðª²¢Â¡ø > [snip] >For RiscOS and Windows ... if David does not have the time or >inclination to continue development (vs maintenance), would he consider >handing on the baton to others? And are there others who would be >willing to pick it up? I do hope _all_ people who have written stuff for RiscOS will make some arrangements for the continued availability of the apps in the future. Anyone working as a 1-man operation is, inevitably, endangering their work: none of us is getting younger (sadly, and despite SWMBO saying I'm childish). It would be a great pity if code, background info etc were not at least ar hived and available to _someone_ following the inevitable event. But in the meantime, wishing everyone a future with longevity health, satisfaction, and sufficiency-unto-their-needs. Regards Ian P. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 12:13:41 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCqIW-3D0knw-02-EFP.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:13:41 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCqIW-3D0knw-02-EFP; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 06:22:04 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCqIW-3D0knw-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 06:22:04 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCqIW-0006rm-H4 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 06:22:04 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id F2F3D864568 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 02:22:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02580-08 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 02:22:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D1D8E864B5E for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 02:22:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 02:21:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9A72B864568 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 02:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02502-04 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 02:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (zen.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.18]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4594E8644A9 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 02:21:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave.nom ([88.202.214.231]) by zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m5T6LEUQ013467 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:21:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: "davidpilling@freelists.org" Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:15:59 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb6e54836dave@triffid.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4863E217.30803@ed.ac.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/6.10) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 948 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: dave@triffid.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=G6_e1cluD9sqxc-r95EA:9 a=tO-KxTxduncCTSCY6o8A:7 a=0qok5ecT2ekq3IREIJElhUKd3sAA:4 a=pyUrM9oW_S0A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] In article , Ian Platt wrote: [Snip] > >For RiscOS and Windows ... if David does not have the time or > >inclination to continue development (vs maintenance), would he consider > >handing on the baton to others? And are there others who would be > >willing to pick it up? > I do hope _all_ people who have written stuff for RiscOS will make some > arrangements for the continued availability of the apps in the future. > Anyone working as a 1-man operation is, inevitably, endangering their > work: none of us is getting younger (sadly, and despite SWMBO saying > I'm childish). > It would be a great pity if code, background info etc were not at least > ar hived and available to _someone_ following the inevitable event. > But in the meantime, wishing everyone a future with longevity health, > satisfaction, and sufficiency-unto-their-needs. > Regards > Ian P. It seems, from reading the NGs and mailing lists this past year, a lot of stuff has already been lost, because the owners have moved on, lost the disks with their work, in some cases couldn't care less. Eureka the spreadsheet is one classic example of something lost. And like with OvPro, I would be prepared to subscribe for continuing updates. Dave S -- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 12:13:42 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCrGw-4Vvknw-01-DGz.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:13:42 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCrGw-4Vvknw-01-DGz; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:24:30 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCrGw-4Vvknw-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:24:30 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCrGw-00071F-1A for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:24:30 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9EE44864C07 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 03:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04850-08 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 03:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 754F2864D40 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 03:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 03:23:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id ADAE5864C07 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 03:23:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04717-10 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 03:23:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.48]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3C614864BA0 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 03:23:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080629072830.XEDZ7070.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 08:28:30 +0100 Received: from iyonix.ntlworld.com ([82.1.169.32]) by aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080629073341.OHTU8797.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@iyonix.ntlworld.com> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 08:33:41 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Dr Alan Leighton X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.42 Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 08:26:40 +0100 Message-ID: <1fc1ebb64f.alan@ntlworld.com> References: <4863E217.30803@ed.ac.uk> <4fb6e54836dave@triffid.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb6e54836dave@triffid.co.uk> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 949 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: alan.leighton2@ntlworld.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=zIg-96HZdlfzgsWkRQ4A:9 a=x2_px7A9-BYPb7-W-M4A:7 a=Pb8-6EUJMH51kd--E8RyCEnpi_kA:4 a=pyUrM9oW_S0A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] In message <4fb6e54836dave@triffid.co.uk> Dave Symes wrote: > In article , > Ian Platt wrote: > [Snip] >>>For RiscOS and Windows ... if David does not have the time or >>>inclination to continue development (vs maintenance), would he consider >>>handing on the baton to others? And are there others who would be >>>willing to pick it up? >> I do hope _all_ people who have written stuff for RiscOS will make some >> arrangements for the continued availability of the apps in the future. >> Anyone working as a 1-man operation is, inevitably, endangering their >> work: none of us is getting younger (sadly, and despite SWMBO saying >> I'm childish). >> It would be a great pity if code, background info etc were not at least >> ar hived and available to _someone_ following the inevitable event. >> But in the meantime, wishing everyone a future with longevity health, >> satisfaction, and sufficiency-unto-their-needs. >> Regards >> Ian P. > It seems, from reading the NGs and mailing lists this past year, a lot of > stuff has already been lost, because the owners have moved on, lost the > disks with their work, in some cases couldn't care less. > Eureka the spreadsheet is one classic example of something lost. > And like with OvPro, I would be prepared to subscribe for continuing > updates. Do you know when I asked about OPro updates Dave, 65 responded positively? I would have expected many more. Alan -- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 12:13:43 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCt1T-2h1Vbs-07-BWS.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:13:43 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCt1T-2h1Vbs-07-BWS; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:16:39 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCt1T-2h1Vbs-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:16:39 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCt1S-0001v5-LD for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:16:39 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 11373864611 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 05:16:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10670-07 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 05:16:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DB38786422A for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 05:16:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 05:15:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8FF0E864611 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 05:15:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10569-05 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 05:15:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.87]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5BEC68645BA for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 05:15:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from cumbrian.demon.co.uk ([62.49.24.36] helo=riscpc.cumbrian.demon.co.uk) by anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) id 1KCt0n-0005Y0-NK for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:15:57 +0000 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Chris Hughes X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:00:59 +0100 Message-ID: <7963f4b64f.chris@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> References: <4863E217.30803@ed.ac.uk> <4fb6e54836dave@triffid.co.uk> <1fc1ebb64f.alan@ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: <1fc1ebb64f.alan@ntlworld.com> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.43S) (RISC-OS/6.10) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 950 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: chris@cumbrian.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=xjrYKMNLcZMJscaKCgkA:9 a=CRGCEQzJDsaiQhJH6DMA:7 a=bExUwfweojM8Dma8LGiHwSecocgA:4 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=pyUrM9oW_S0A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] In message <1fc1ebb64f.alan@ntlworld.com> Dr Alan Leighton wrote: > In message <4fb6e54836dave@triffid.co.uk> > Dave Symes wrote: >> In article , >> Ian Platt wrote: >> [Snip] >>>>For RiscOS and Windows ... if David does not have the time or >>>>inclination to continue development (vs maintenance), would he consider >>>>handing on the baton to others? And are there others who would be >>>>willing to pick it up? >>> I do hope _all_ people who have written stuff for RiscOS will make some >>> arrangements for the continued availability of the apps in the future. >>> Anyone working as a 1-man operation is, inevitably, endangering their >>> work: none of us is getting younger (sadly, and despite SWMBO saying >>> I'm childish). >>> It would be a great pity if code, background info etc were not at least >>> ar hived and available to _someone_ following the inevitable event. >>> But in the meantime, wishing everyone a future with longevity health, >>> satisfaction, and sufficiency-unto-their-needs. >>> Regards >>> Ian P. >> It seems, from reading the NGs and mailing lists this past year, a lot of >> stuff has already been lost, because the owners have moved on, lost the >> disks with their work, in some cases couldn't care less. >> Eureka the spreadsheet is one classic example of something lost. >> And like with OvPro, I would be prepared to subscribe for continuing >> updates. > Do you know when I asked about OPro updates Dave, 65 responded > positively? I would have expected many more. Alan, I have been reading the thread on this list and in the CSA newsgroups. Please remember only a small proportion of users are on the internet or even read the newsgroups, or even know this list exists. An example is our club, where only 60% of the members actually have an internet connection and most of the others either don't want it or fear it because of all the scare stories. Our club newsletter and indeed much of the Wakefield show material is nowadays done on Ovation Pro, it used to all be done in Impression - mainly because others on the committee etc had Impression, we now use mainly RISC OS OPro and everyone who has not got that gets PDF copies. I have just purchased OPro for Windows ready for when I switch OS's. Direct PDF export would be useful. As to whether I would purchase an update would depend nowadays on what the new features were. Direct PDF export similar to EasiWriter, would get me upgrading. Import/exporting in various formats would be one of the most useful features either directly or via applets, thus improving cross platform compatibility and flexibility. -- Chris Hughes To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 12:42:49 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCv7V-1buGPo-04-9QQ.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:42:49 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCv7V-1buGPo-04-9QQ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:31:01 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCv7V-1buGPo-04 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:31:01 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCv7V-0001yt-Ea for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:31:01 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C5DA3864842 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:31:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17484-05 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:31:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9BA25863EA3 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:31:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:30:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5D092863A75 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 05:43:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11799-03 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 05:43:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx7.orcon.net.nz (mx7.orcon.net.nz [219.88.242.57]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D00DB862785 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 05:43:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Debian-exim by mx7.orcon.net.nz with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KCtRH-0007N9-WE for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:43:20 +1200 Received: from [60.234.184.59] (helo=mysteriousmrf.my.home) by mx7.orcon.net.nz with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1KCtRH-0007Mq-CB for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:43:19 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Robert Greenfield To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:45:00 +1200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb6f86b17monster@caverock.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) Content-Type: text/plain X-DSPAM-Check: by mx7.orcon.net.nz on Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:43:19 +1200 X-DSPAM-Result: Innocent X-DSPAM-Processed: Sun Jun 29 21:43:19 2008 X-DSPAM-Confidence: 0.9905 X-DSPAM-Probability: 0.0000 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 951 X-Approved-By: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: monster@caverock.net.nz Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=an63MGxJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=gB9KOPonzBsJLCRiz04A:9 a=gZlOz42iYiJ8yo-oDBwA:7 a=sFtIzkTGrQRvhY51CEaarjUGthwA:4 a=kG421bgbQi0A:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] On 28 Jun, Brian Bailey wrote: > In article , David Pilling > wrote: > > Robert Greenfield wrote: > > >Why not make DDL standard OvPro format and leave the binary one for > > >loading legacy documents? > > Because for most users this would make no difference. > Here I profoundly disagree. I think that /might/ apply to current users, > in the main, but the very constraint offered by legacy file formats is I > feel the very reason preventing the expansion of the use of RISC OS > software on this and other platforms. Pretty much what I was thinking. I can see a marketing tool in a non-binary (or comprehensible) file format. It surely makes our documents more future proof, certainly raises the possibility of being able to use the documents on other platforms, or in other software (it must be easier to create import filters with a file structure like DDL). > It occurs to me to speculate whether a form of open sourcing of OvatPro, > similar to Iyonix open sourcing of RISC OS 5, retaining some commercial > control of the code, but allowing others to continue further development, > might work. Just thinking out loud. I've been mulling over potential ways forward, but I haven't blurted any out yet, so good on you for thinking out loud :-) Ideas. I admire the approach of the Netsurf project, where many different builds for different platforms appear to be possible without (much) difficulty. Is this possible with OvPro? Is there a 'central' core of code that both RO and Windows versions use? If not how feasible is it to get the code to this stage, either by yourself or with assistance? Cross-platform document processing with an open file format. Surely sounds attractive. Central website to order OvPro, download templates, repository for Applets, ask questions on a forum etc. How OvPro is sold and its price. David - you appear to think that OvPro is lacking compared to other DTPs. This is a bit of a catch-22 situation, perhaps. OvPro is 'lacking' and needs development to catch the public's eye, get more users and become 'viable' in order to develop it further etc. For sales to lift (especially on Windows) some lateral thinking may be required, as the price of MS Office seems to be some sort of yardstick for many people. Would you take a risk with on-line sales using downloads only? Using n-Track (ntrack.com) as a possible model (for no special reason), could you: Offer a download which you can order a 'key' for. Upgrades are free for n-track 5.X and 6.X (I notice he doesn't offer upgrades indefinitely). Price is certainly competitive compared to Cubase or LogicPro etc. Seeing as you feel that OvPro is lacking in some features, could you risk lowering the price to stimulate more interest? I could certainly see this for a 'limited time, to celebrate the re-launch of OvPro on the web.' Why not try offering Educational Discounts - better to shift more units. Maybe Education Versions have to pay more often for upgrades. Here in NZ the Ministry of Education has a licence for MS Word, Excel etc. for every school in NZ. Could you approach LEAs to do something similar? Say to the LEAs that OvPro is able to read any valuable old Impression documents that schools *might* still have. You might mention that OvPro is available for RISC OS and Windows. I had a brief look at usenet via Google last night (I don't subscribe to the newsgroups and only read them very irregularly these days). There was a thread there about OvPro and there does appear to be quite a few RO users who are still plodding along with Impression (like I was up until recently). Amazing really, but some people really need a prod to upgrade! Aside: I am certainly very happy to have upgraded, even with the current limited possiblities for upgrades. Why not offer a special price to get Impression users to upgrade? regards, -- Robert Greenfield via RISC OS - http://www.webmonster.co.nz/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 12:42:49 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCvBC-1igGPo-08-9Mj.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:42:49 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCvBC-1igGPo-08-9Mj; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:34:50 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCvBC-1igGPo-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:34:50 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCvBC-0005Mf-2l for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:34:50 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9A99D864C9B for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:34:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17688-01 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:34:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6E5FD864B31 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:34:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:34:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 30385864C41 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:34:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17594-01 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:34:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.47]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B16CF8646F4 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 07:34:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080629113838.NCCJ28496.mtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:38:38 +0100 Received: from iyonix.ntlworld.com ([82.1.169.32]) by aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080629114404.RQSF8797.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@iyonix.ntlworld.com> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:44:04 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Dr Alan Leighton X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:36:42 +0100 Message-ID: <2da502b74f.alan@ntlworld.com> References: <4863E217.30803@ed.ac.uk> <4fb6e54836dave@triffid.co.uk> <1fc1ebb64f.alan@ntlworld.com> <7963f4b64f.chris@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <7963f4b64f.chris@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 952 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: alan.leighton2@ntlworld.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=iSVYe_WdWYHbpmKraoEA:9 a=gzuwD2sgjoGnSEjqQ7EA:7 a=Rcl7h6uh3Sx-aXJyc33Ma9GbKWUA:4 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=pyUrM9oW_S0A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] In message <7963f4b64f.chris@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> Chris Hughes wrote: > In message <1fc1ebb64f.alan@ntlworld.com> > Dr Alan Leighton wrote: >> In message <4fb6e54836dave@triffid.co.uk> >> Dave Symes wrote: >>> In article , >>> Ian Platt wrote: >>> [Snip] >>>>>For RiscOS and Windows ... if David does not have the time or >>>>>inclination to continue development (vs maintenance), would he consider >>>>>handing on the baton to others? And are there others who would be >>>>>willing to pick it up? >>>> I do hope _all_ people who have written stuff for RiscOS will make some >>>> arrangements for the continued availability of the apps in the future. >>>> Anyone working as a 1-man operation is, inevitably, endangering their >>>> work: none of us is getting younger (sadly, and despite SWMBO saying >>>> I'm childish). >>>> It would be a great pity if code, background info etc were not at least >>>> ar hived and available to _someone_ following the inevitable event. >>>> But in the meantime, wishing everyone a future with longevity health, >>>> satisfaction, and sufficiency-unto-their-needs. >>>> Regards >>>> Ian P. >>> It seems, from reading the NGs and mailing lists this past year, a lot of >>> stuff has already been lost, because the owners have moved on, lost the >>> disks with their work, in some cases couldn't care less. >>> Eureka the spreadsheet is one classic example of something lost. >>> And like with OvPro, I would be prepared to subscribe for continuing >>> updates. >> Do you know when I asked about OPro updates Dave, 65 responded >> positively? I would have expected many more. > Alan, I have been reading the thread on this list and in the CSA > newsgroups. Please remember only a small proportion of users are on > the internet or even read the newsgroups, or even know this list > exists. > An example is our club, where only 60% of the members actually have an > internet connection and most of the others either don't want it or > fear it because of all the scare stories. > Our club newsletter and indeed much of the Wakefield show material is > nowadays done on Ovation Pro, it used to all be done in Impression - > mainly because others on the committee etc had Impression, we now use > mainly RISC OS OPro and everyone who has not got that gets PDF copies. > I have just purchased OPro for Windows ready for when I switch OS's. > Direct PDF export would be useful. > As to whether I would purchase an update would depend nowadays on what > the new features were. Direct PDF export similar to EasiWriter, would > get me upgrading. > Import/exporting in various formats would be one of the most useful > features either directly or via applets, thus improving cross platform > compatibility and flexibility. Thanks Chris, For putting me right about this . I had no idea. Blessings Alan -- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 13:57:52 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCwOc-0uk000-08-Gfp.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:57:52 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCwOc-0uk000-08-Gfp; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:52:46 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCwOc-0uk000-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:52:46 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCwOb-0003zn-R0 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:52:46 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D9E3A864228 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 08:52:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22167-02 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 08:52:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B0F06864166 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 08:52:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 08:52:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E3E22864228 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 08:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 22029-02 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 08:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B1AF2864139 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 08:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KCwNw-000JBS-4u for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:52:04 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:50:50 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 953 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=Y6UFhB5YXCLk6oHrKjcA:9 a=LBVEnn0iI5TT9JsMczIA:7 a=TaZXkD2td6KTOjJOb0I9NG4tVFoA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] In message <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Bailey writes >> My current disillusion with Windows is due to the realisation that years >> of work are now needed just to add the basic requirements. >That seems to be more than slightly paradoxical. Surely, the development >of OvatPro has already progressed well beyond what might be called the >basic requirements. It would, therefore, be interesting to know what you >have in mind. OLE support WMF support Tables MS Word import A brand new user interface for Windows Sorting out some of the bugs that have been allowed to persist >> >Why not make DDL standard OvPro format and leave the binary one for >> >loading legacy documents? >in the main, but the very constraint offered by legacy file formats is I >feel the very reason preventing the expansion of the use of RISC OS >software on this and other platforms. It is certainly a significant That is a good point, the DDL format is much more extendable than the binary one - sometimes new features have been limited to fit in the old file format. Although DDL has its charms, one would realistically replace it with XML. That is just another addition for the above list. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 14:12:52 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCweT-1N9000-02-GPy.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:12:52 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCweT-1N9000-02-GPy; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:09:09 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCweT-1N9000-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:09:09 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCweS-0000Ai-I2 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:09:08 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 04C9B8648C2 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23079-10 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D82BE864AB1 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:08:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EB4108648C2 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:08:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23054-02 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:08:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (zen.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.18]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A004A8640FE for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:08:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dave.nom ([88.202.203.89]) by zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m5TD8FCG017915 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:08:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:54:19 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb709c004dave@triffid.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <1fc1ebb64f.alan@ntlworld.com> References: <4863E217.30803@ed.ac.uk> <4fb6e54836dave@triffid.co.uk> <1fc1ebb64f.alan@ntlworld.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/6.10) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 954 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: dave@triffid.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=o4StAubY0Ffft6LipJYA:9 a=5gTMiN7Pl-imnuZ28yAA:7 a=XWiGhKjrw6F9Po1K3K0AZvvsHIYA:4 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] In article <1fc1ebb64f.alan@ntlworld.com>, Dr Alan Leighton wrote: > Do you know when I asked about OPro updates Dave, 65 responded > positively? I would have expected many more. > Alan Indeedy Alan, I saw your posting in the mailing list and Newsgroup, but didn't get around to replying. I would imagine there are a number like me who use both versions of OvPro and would sub to an update if and when it arrives, but for whatever reasons didn't get around to replying. Cheers Dave S -- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 14:27:52 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCwlP-1Zw000-06-GJ2.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:27:52 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCwlP-1Zw000-06-GJ2; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:16:19 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCwlP-1Zw000-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:16:19 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCwlP-0000I0-5u for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:16:19 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 98CA9864686 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:16:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23936-03 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:16:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6A9228640D0 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:16:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:15:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6F42386485F for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:15:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23784-07 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:15:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.87]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2CCBA86484D for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:15:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) id 1KCwkl-0005MP-Mu for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:15:39 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:14:22 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4fb6f86b17monster@caverock.net.nz> In-Reply-To: <4fb6f86b17monster@caverock.net.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 955 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=FurbIU0ui79jKV_loGgA:9 a=CemJ4kY4YsnNXE2t9h0A:7 a=LSHxduhDG88hodO7W0Lhus-3egoA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] In message <4fb6f86b17monster@caverock.net.nz>, Robert Greenfield writes >I can see a marketing tool in a non-binary (or comprehensible) file >format. It surely makes our documents more future proof, certainly raises >the possibility of being able to use the documents on other platforms, or >in other software (it must be easier to create import filters with a file >structure like DDL). Well you have had DDL since day one, and it was put there to solve the above problems. What has limited you is the small number of users - it hasn't been worthwhile people writing filters. Lack of support for MS Word is a big gap, yet it would be easy for a third party to write an MS Word filter - either for import or export. >> It occurs to me to speculate whether a form of open sourcing of OvatPro, >> similar to Iyonix open sourcing of RISC OS 5, retaining some commercial >> control of the code, but allowing others to continue further development, I've suggested this myself in this discussion. The problem is that for me that is the end of the game, it means letting go of the program and writing off all the years of work (I know there will be ifs and buts to this, but that is the realistic outcome). >Is this possible with OvPro? Is there a 'central' core of code that both >RO and Windows versions use? One problem with DTP programs is that they do depend intimately on the underlying operating system. This is why it took me so long to get things working on Windows, why I am a bit shy of Java and why I have two lots of source code for Win and RISC OS. You can do anything with source code, so you could have one lot of source that compiled on any platform - just comes down to how you spend your resources. >David - you appear to think that OvPro is lacking compared to other DTPs. Various people have suggested cutting the price, perhaps you're right. It is always easy (as an outsider) to say "X would do better if it cost less". The limiting case of charging nothing does not support this. Often it is harder to give things away than to sell them. My original idea was to have a relatively high fixed price, not charge for upgrades and to continue development until the price was amply justified. What has gone wrong with this strategy, is that my time for programming has been radically curtailed over the last couple of years, take up of the Windows version has been close to zero by Windows users and RISC OS users want to stick with the RISC OS version. I've also come to realise just how much work is still required. But yes I will consider the price. >This is a bit of a catch-22 situation, perhaps. OvPro is 'lacking' and >needs development to catch the public's eye, get more users and become >'viable' in order to develop it further etc. As I've said, the program has been beset from the start by the "one more push" fallacy, if only I'd do another years hard work then it would all be OK... I do believe there probably is some critical point beyond which sales would take off. That idea probably argues against a strategy based on gradually improving a program written 20 years ago. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 15:12:58 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCxcv-35d000-01-FRW.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:12:58 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCxcv-35d000-01-FRW; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:11:37 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCxcv-35d000-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:11:37 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCxcu-0007Mp-AG for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:11:37 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0ABF386466F for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:27:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24418-03 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:27:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D41A68640D0 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:27:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:26:29 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 478F386466F for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24256-08 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:26:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out3.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out3.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.6]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 127BB84E530 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.23.170.145] (helo=anti-virus03-08) by smtp-out3.blueyonder.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1KCwvE-0000w5-Et for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:26:28 +0100 Received: from [92.237.124.215] (helo=Iyonix) by asmtp-out5.blueyonder.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1KCwvD-00009t-SP for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:26:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John M Ward To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:25:48 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb70ca249john@acornusers.org> In-Reply-To: <4fb709c004dave@triffid.co.uk> References: <4863E217.30803@ed.ac.uk> <4fb6e54836dave@triffid.co.uk> <1fc1ebb64f.alan@ntlworld.com> <4fb709c004dave@triffid.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 956 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: john@acornusers.org Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=5JhhAp52AAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=BBRdK0J2_9Yp-5UdYmoA:9 a=D72kDqzLXgzR9l9PUiEA:7 a=xHi_1ByZJv6ZJSzyBvxKN5naL2gA:4 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] In article <4fb709c004dave@triffid.co.uk>, Dave Symes wrote: > In article <1fc1ebb64f.alan@ntlworld.com>, > Dr Alan Leighton wrote: > > > Do you know when I asked about OPro updates Dave, 65 responded > > positively? I would have expected many more. > > Indeedy Alan, I saw your posting in the mailing list and Newsgroup, > but didn't get around to replying. > I would imagine there are a number like me who use both versions of > OvPro and would sub to an update if and when it arrives, but for > whatever reasons didn't get around to replying. On top of other reasons already stated, it has to be remembered that we are now in the summer holiday season and many people are away. It could never have been any more than a straw poll anyway (but much appreciated for all that) and was, I think, a positive result: every response was in favour of ongoing development, including at a price, and there aren't all that many things in this world where such could be said... -- John Ward in Medway, Kent - using RISC OS since 1987 Now using an Iyonix, an A9home, 2 RiscPCs and Virtual-RPC! Acorn/RISC OS web page: www.john-ward.org.uk/personal/john/computers To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 16:27:56 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KCyav-0Inknw-02-ETW.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:27:56 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KCyav-0Inknw-02-ETW; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:13:37 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KCyav-0Inknw-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:13:37 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KCyau-0001QA-Os for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 15:13:37 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 04C8B863F7E for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:13:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31923-04 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:13:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CD587864AB2 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:13:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:12:58 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2B569863F7E for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:12:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31857-03 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:12:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relay.freeuk.net (relay.freeuk.net [212.126.144.54]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C60FD86363F for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 11:12:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from du-002-0113.freeuk.com ([212.126.156.113] helo=bbailey.freeuk.com.) by relay.freeuk.net with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1KCyaE-000P4X-80 for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:12:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Brian Bailey To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:10:15 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb7163221bbailey@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4fb6f86b17monster@caverock.net.nz> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 957 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: bbailey@argonet.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=02_dt6bl20XMDVz_w30A:9 a=wA6f09FpIDnZZQSAP3wA:7 a=ppTmW7N8a5wzZyANvIoxjtGso8QA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] In article , David Pilling wrote: > In message <4fb6f86b17monster@caverock.net.nz>, Robert Greenfield > writes > >I can see a marketing tool in a non-binary (or comprehensible) file > >format. It surely makes our documents more future proof, certainly > >raises the possibility of being able to use the documents on other > >platforms, or in other software (it must be easier to create import > >filters with a file structure like DDL). > Well you have had DDL since day one, and it was put there to solve the > above problems. What has limited you is the small number of users - it > hasn't been worthwhile people writing filters. > Lack of support for MS Word is a big gap, yet it would be easy for a > third party to write an MS Word filter - either for import or export. > >> It occurs to me to speculate whether a form of open sourcing of > >> OvatPro, similar to Iyonix open sourcing of RISC OS 5, retaining some > >> commercial control of the code, but allowing others to continue > >> further development, > I've suggested this myself in this discussion. The problem is that for > me that is the end of the game, it means letting go of the program and > writing off all the years of work (I know there will be ifs and buts to > this, but that is the realistic outcome). > >Is this possible with OvPro? Is there a 'central' core of code that > >both RO and Windows versions use? > One problem with DTP programs is that they do depend intimately on the > underlying operating system. This is why it took me so long to get > things working on Windows, why I am a bit shy of Java and why I have two > lots of source code for Win and RISC OS. > You can do anything with source code, so you could have one lot of > source that compiled on any platform - just comes down to how you spend > your resources. > >David - you appear to think that OvPro is lacking compared to other > >DTPs. > Various people have suggested cutting the price, perhaps you're right. > It is always easy (as an outsider) to say "X would do better if it cost > less". I think that is a false argument in extremis. The price should reflect its true commercial value, including profit, at the very least. Equally, there is nothing to stop you charging for a rolling upgrade very much as Martin has and is doing. > The limiting case of charging nothing does not support this. Often it is > harder to give things away than to sell them. Well, I recall one software developer, at an Acorn show, expressing the view that Acorn customers wanted everything for nothing and that other developers had the same view. An off day perhaps, but it was said without malice and with a considerable degree of realism. Unless one can benefit from real economy of scale then one has to pay the going rate for relatively small scale output, especially so if one is buying a quality product. > My original idea was to have a relatively high fixed price, not charge > for upgrades and to continue development until the price was amply > justified. > What has gone wrong with this strategy, is that my time for programming > has been radically curtailed over the last couple of years, take up of > the Windows version has been close to zero by Windows users and RISC OS > users want to stick with the RISC OS version. I've also come to realise > just how much work is still required. > But yes I will consider the price. > >This is a bit of a catch-22 situation, perhaps. OvPro is 'lacking' and > >needs development to catch the public's eye, get more users and become > >'viable' in order to develop it further etc. > As I've said, the program has been beset from the start by the "one more > push" fallacy, if only I'd do another years hard work then it would all > be OK... > I do believe there probably is some critical point beyond which sales > would take off. That idea probably argues against a strategy based on > gradually improving a program written 20 years ago. Er, car and aircraft manufacturers take that route and so do many other forms of technology, mostly with some success. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 17:57:59 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KD07i-3Dvknw-01-Cwj.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:57:59 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KD07i-3Dvknw-01-Cwj; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:51:34 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KD07i-3Dvknw-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:51:34 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KD07j-0004qm-Az for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:51:35 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D2DDC864782 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:51:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05479-05 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:51:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B2B1E86499A for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:51:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:50:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id C7ADF864782 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:50:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 05383-06 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:50:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com (nf-out-0910.google.com [64.233.182.185]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6ED62864A9E for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 12:50:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 30so292688nfu.46 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:50:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.210.88.3 with SMTP id l3mr3265772ebb.79.1214758253536; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?192.168.0.2? ( [81.20.187.218]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id y34sm5075464iky.10.2008.06.29.09.50.52 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 09:50:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <464CA481-9D41-48D2-8E88-8D2B48AD73A4@talibard.com> From: Michael Talibard To: davidpilling@freelists.org In-Reply-To: <4fb7163221bbailey@argonet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v924) Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:50:51 +0100 References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4fb6f86b17monster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb7163221bbailey@argonet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.924) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 958 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: michael@talibard.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=RYJjgyOEJ2t5pFFlZSwA:9 a=gCU3lbWzP1Mu_PDKorwA:7 a=jASTlDHhSq-lpeOB5l2QTE5H6c4A:4 a=T81ihCft0O8A:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] Ovation Pro's future, as far as I am concerned, is that I shall go on using it indefinitely (despite being also a fan of the Mac). OPro does almost everything I want from such a program, and does it well. Why look for anything else? I shall purchase, out of sheer loyalty and gratitude, any upgrades I am offered, whether I need them or not. The one I would really welcome, though, is export of PDF. Michael Talibard To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 18:13:00 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KD0LX-3fiknw-06-Ciu.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:13:00 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KD0LX-3fiknw-06-Ciu; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:05:51 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KD0LX-3fiknw-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:05:51 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KD0LX-0005YE-9x for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:05:51 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id BCD89864CF7 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:05:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06321-07 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:05:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9BA78864E85 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:05:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:05:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 01193864CF7 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:05:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06225-08 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:05:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (slave.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.26]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id AB077864CAC for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:05:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from panther (backup.vigay.com [82.163.120.21]) by slave.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id m5TH4mPN023223 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:04:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Vigay To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:05:02 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb720b465lists-nospam@vigay.com> In-Reply-To: <464CA481-9D41-48D2-8E88-8D2B48AD73A4@talibard.com> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4fb6f86b17monster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb7163221bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <464CA481-9D41-48D2-8E88-8D2B48AD73A4@talibard.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.13) POPstar/2.06-ds.5 X-No-Archive: yes Sensitivity: Private Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 959 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: lists-nospam@vigay.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=0xqhCTqKAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=zUra1tVmXwtLf2hbz7gA:9 a=u6MDzTAyeZraPtutvhMA:7 a=Ga8azUKP2KMJwL9UhwWW3ahLCBkA:4 a=4SztSTlPBk4A:10 a=C8mrrX0TPdoA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] In a dim and distant universe <464CA481-9D41-48D2-8E88-8D2B48AD73A4@talibard.com>, Michael Talibard enlightened us thusly: > I shall purchase, out of sheer loyalty and gratitude, any upgrades I am > offered, whether I need them or not. The one I would really welcome, > though, is export of PDF. Ditto - on both counts! Paul Vigay Editor, www.RISCOS.org -- Using, programming and promoting RISC OS - the most productive computer system in the world. Check it out now, and change your view of computers!! To reply/email, visit http://www.riscos.org/feedback/ If at first you don't succeed skydiving is not for you. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 18:58:02 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KD11C-0ExVbs-08-C3F.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:58:02 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KD11C-0ExVbs-08-C3F; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:48:54 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KD11C-0ExVbs-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:48:54 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KD11B-0007nj-SU for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:48:54 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8F68C864D13 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09447-01 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6C5B0864424 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:48:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:48:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8CEFC864C1F for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:48:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09269-04 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:48:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (zen.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.18]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3F3F3864BF8 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 13:48:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Iyonix.pnyoung.ormail.co.uk ([88.202.202.231]) by zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m5THlmDU021059 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:47:50 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Dr Peter Young X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:47:51 +0100 Message-ID: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4fb6f86b17monster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb7163221bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <464CA481-9D41-48D2-8E88-8D2B48AD73A4@talibard.com> In-Reply-To: <464CA481-9D41-48D2-8E88-8D2B48AD73A4@talibard.com> X-Organization: Home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 960 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: pnyoung@ormail.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=CKwIYTfOAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=6vZ4M8Sz5-ROI8UwmIsA:9 a=kQ3svmsUX5bqkT9Zg68A:7 a=D8kYMkiFwBoH93d5O0CuGEzgepwA:4 a=C8mrrX0TPdoA:10 a=LY0hPdMaydYA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] On 29 Jun 2008 Michael Talibard wrote: > Ovation Pro's future, as far as I am concerned, is that I > shall go on using it indefinitely (despite being also a fan of > the Mac). OPro does almost everything I want from such > a program, and does it well. Why look for anything else? > I shall purchase, out of sheer loyalty and gratitude, any > upgrades I am offered, whether I need them or not. The > one I would really welcome, though, is export of PDF. Loyalty and gratitude indeed! I know at least one person who bought OPW, not out of immediate need, but 10% in case RISC OS vanished, and 90% out of a feeling that it had become necessary to put money into David's hand. With best wishes, Peter. -- Peter \ / zfc Er \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52 Anne \/ __ __ \ England. and / / \ | | |\ | / _ \ http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk family / \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \______________ pnyoung@ormail.co.uk. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 19:13:02 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KD1Js-0peVbs-07-BkZ.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:13:02 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KD1Js-0peVbs-07-BkZ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:08:12 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KD1Js-0peVbs-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:08:12 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KD1Js-00036R-AP for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:08:12 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B6840864E6D for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:08:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10907-09 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:08:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 8E521864E6C for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:08:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:07:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B0CE2864EF6 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:07:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10631-09 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:07:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relay.freeuk.net (relay.freeuk.net [212.126.144.54]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7FC7E864E6D for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:07:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from du-003-0091.freeuk.com ([212.126.145.91] helo=bbailey.freeuk.com.) by relay.freeuk.net with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1KD1JD-0001Xr-7j for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:07:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Brian Bailey To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:06:29 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb726547fbbailey@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 961 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: bbailey@argonet.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=M6QNI94g4puaiRWbLMAA:9 a=Ndm7gXugb9fD4L7t0EYA:7 a=k4L92BjXR9XVgJ8kM-tmIlV1X9wA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] In article , David Pilling wrote: > In message <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Bailey > writes > >> My current disillusion with Windows is due to the realisation that > >> years of work are now needed just to add the basic requirements. > >That seems to be more than slightly paradoxical. Surely, the > >development of OvatPro has already progressed well beyond what might be > >called the basic requirements. It would, therefore, be interesting to > >know what you have in mind. > OLE support WMF support Tables MS Word import A brand new user interface > for Windows Sorting out some of the bugs that have been allowed to > persist > >> >Why not make DDL standard OvPro format and leave the binary one for > >> >loading legacy documents? > >in the main, but the very constraint offered by legacy file formats is > >I feel the very reason preventing the expansion of the use of RISC OS > >software on this and other platforms. It is certainly a significant > That is a good point, the DDL format is much more extendable than the > binary one - sometimes new features have been limited to fit in the old > file format. > Although DDL has its charms, one would realistically replace it with > XML. That is just another addition for the above list. Plus, PDF export. OK, David, we now have at least some kind of list, some kind of focus for further discussion. In spite of your reservations, there are possibilities, some kind of a glimmer, of a practical commercial scheme out of the several suggestions which have been made, which could be costed. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 19:13:02 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KD1Mf-0vCVbs-01-Bhm.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:13:02 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KD1Mf-0vCVbs-01-Bhm; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:11:05 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KD1Mf-0vCVbs-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:11:05 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KD1Me-0004XH-MC for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:11:05 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 2DE4A864F93 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:11:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11177-06 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:11:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 0185E864D13 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:11:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:10:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id F2C7E864F93 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:10:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11071-04 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:10:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.48]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 84438864D27 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:10:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080629181512.FALT7070.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:15:12 +0100 Received: from iyonix.ntlworld.com ([82.1.169.32]) by aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080629181343.BWYQ29365.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@iyonix.ntlworld.com> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:13:43 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Dr Alan Leighton X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:13:08 +0100 Message-ID: <77f026b74f.alan@ntlworld.com> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4fb6f86b17monster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb7163221bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <464CA481-9D41-48D2-8E88-8D2B48AD73A4@talibard.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 962 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: alan.leighton2@ntlworld.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=Do0LIHB7ztoBvZSCfbMA:9 a=DM1LUKtWC-R_zXpMMMEA:7 a=KYka-LYm1xKnhn1ows0S5fE2jNUA:4 a=C8mrrX0TPdoA:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] In message Dr Peter Young wrote: > On 29 Jun 2008 Michael Talibard wrote: >> Ovation Pro's future, as far as I am concerned, is that I >> shall go on using it indefinitely (despite being also a fan of >> the Mac). OPro does almost everything I want from such >> a program, and does it well. Why look for anything else? >> I shall purchase, out of sheer loyalty and gratitude, any >> upgrades I am offered, whether I need them or not. The >> one I would really welcome, though, is export of PDF. > Loyalty and gratitude indeed! I know at least one person who bought > OPW, not out of immediate need, but 10% in case RISC OS vanished, and > 90% out of a feeling that it had become necessary to put money into > David's hand. Absolutely dear Doctor. I would willing do the same. Alan -- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 19:28:02 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KD1RK-14lVbs-03-Bd7.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:28:02 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KD1RK-14lVbs-03-Bd7; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:15:54 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KD1RK-14lVbs-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:15:54 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KD1RJ-00014y-Bk for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:15:53 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D75E7864B55 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:15:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11549-05 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:15:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A8023864B49 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:15:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:15:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EB22D864B55 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 11461-01 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.48]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7CA42863ED8 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080629182001.FCMM7070.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:20:01 +0100 Received: from iyonix.ntlworld.com ([82.1.169.32]) by aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080629181519.XNBV18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@iyonix.ntlworld.com> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:15:19 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Dr Alan Leighton X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:18:09 +0100 Message-ID: <256627b74f.alan@ntlworld.com> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4fb726547fbbailey@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb726547fbbailey@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 963 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: alan.leighton2@ntlworld.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=Wg9VaNh_Snk-8Lyy6eIA:9 a=q1jurQMIo5M7l_eq6osA:7 a=zCKa2hcLAAjcBIxKX-Hq5_htnmcA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] In message <4fb726547fbbailey@argonet.co.uk> Brian Bailey wrote: > In article , David Pilling > wrote: >> In message <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Bailey >> writes >>>> My current disillusion with Windows is due to the realisation that >>>> years of work are now needed just to add the basic requirements. >>>That seems to be more than slightly paradoxical. Surely, the >>>development of OvatPro has already progressed well beyond what might be >>>called the basic requirements. It would, therefore, be interesting to >>>know what you have in mind. >> OLE support WMF support Tables MS Word import A brand new user interface >> for Windows Sorting out some of the bugs that have been allowed to >> persist >>>>>Why not make DDL standard OvPro format and leave the binary one for >>>>>loading legacy documents? >>>in the main, but the very constraint offered by legacy file formats is >>>I feel the very reason preventing the expansion of the use of RISC OS >>>software on this and other platforms. It is certainly a significant >> That is a good point, the DDL format is much more extendable than the >> binary one - sometimes new features have been limited to fit in the old >> file format. >> Although DDL has its charms, one would realistically replace it with >> XML. That is just another addition for the above list. > Plus, PDF export. > OK, David, we now have at least some kind of list, some kind of focus for > further discussion. > In spite of your reservations, there are possibilities, some kind of a > glimmer, of a practical commercial scheme out of the several > suggestions which have been made, which could be costed. Yes and 70 people are there with financial backing already. I am told that there are also many others who do not tap into this line or to News. I have the list of backers ready and hope fully more will join. This a serious thing for us. I asked a PC main user are there many authors you can speak to directly and the answer is no it is all MS. Alan -- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 19:43:04 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KD1qN-1qyVbs-07-BE4.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:43:04 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KD1qN-1qyVbs-07-BE4; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:41:47 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KD1qN-1qyVbs-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:41:47 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KD1qL-0005Sq-GC for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:41:47 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EB96C8642D5 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:41:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13200-10 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:41:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id CC626862297 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:41:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:41:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1FF528652CD for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:41:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13053-06 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:41:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.87]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E23708652A8 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 14:41:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from charleshope.demon.co.uk ([80.177.174.79] helo=iyonix) by anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.68) id 1KD1pg-0006M4-PU for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:41:05 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: charles To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 19:41:06 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb7297ff2charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <256627b74f.alan@ntlworld.com> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4fb726547fbbailey@argonet.co.uk> <256627b74f.alan@ntlworld.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 964 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=tihFG0if2l-6YkBfk3sA:9 a=EN3gVY8N1eCN5A3UMmYA:7 a=BBOV1SUQ5zK-6SQwo9M4fuR3W4UA:4 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] In article <256627b74f.alan@ntlworld.com>, Dr Alan Leighton wrote: [Snip] > I asked a PC main user are there many > authors you can speak to directly and the answer is no it is all MS. And that is a wrong answer. I own two rather specialised items of Windows based software and I have been in direct contact with the authors of both. One even by telephone, which isn't generally possible in the case of DP. I say 'generally' since I did have a very useful conversation on the phone with him back in 1995. -- >From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey" Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Sun Jun 29 21:13:05 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KD39O-4HrVbs-06-9v3.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:13:05 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KD39O-4HrVbs-06-9v3; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:05:30 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KD39O-4HrVbs-06 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:05:30 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KD39O-00068n-9o for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 20:05:30 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7D0FD864DCC; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18150-09; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:05:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 00F86864E31; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:05:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:04:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5D5CB864DCC for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18080-09 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.5]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 20B7B861FD7 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.23.170.142] (helo=anti-virus02-09) by smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1KD38e-00088B-4T for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:04:44 +0100 Received: from [92.235.206.254] (helo=[192.168.1.2]) by asmtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk with esmtpa (Exim 4.52) id 1KD38d-0006Qt-Pj for davidpilling@freelists.org; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:04:43 +0100 Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:03:43 +0100 From: Jeremy Nicoll - freelists To: davidpilling@freelists.org Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> Mail-Followup-To: davidpilling@freelists.org User-Agent: Gemini/2.29i (Qt/3.3.8) (Windows-XP) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 965 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: jn.flists.73@wingsandbeaks.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=bZmIA2qDSJHAbVjSw30A:9 a=PN7LznX88cvcnEZhgcoA:7 a=viFxyTvda0e6mLyUtRlAHmWULuQA:4 a=Dqp-bWOt5EsA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] Robert Greenfield wrote: > DDL looks like an 'open' format. Thinking longer term, can we encourage > its use further afield? Could a developer conceivably make a DDL > 'transloader/saver' for the oft-mentioned Quark? What I like about DDL is that other programs can (or could) generate output in DDL form, for example one might be able to generate reports out of a database system as DDL files, then a user could define how they wanted various styles used in that report to look. It'd be a bit like a program generating HTML or XML output whose final look depended on a separate stylesheet. -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jul 1 11:56:09 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KD48J-19uGPo-02-8w8.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 11:56:09 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KD48J-19uGPo-02-8w8; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:08:27 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KD48J-19uGPo-02 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:08:27 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KD48I-00052z-GU for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:08:26 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E5EA586593D; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:08:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 24085-01; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:08:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 55DC5865921; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:08:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:07:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 33BEA865949 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:07:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23946-10 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:07:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.48]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B7EC2865166 for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:07:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080629211234.IDBM7070.mtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:12:34 +0100 Received: from PC01 ([82.4.96.249]) by aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with SMTP id <20080629210752.VZS18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@PC01> for ; Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:07:52 +0100 Message-ID: <4978ADD4AD1E49CAB1B05F5B355794A3@PC01> From: "John Grogan" To: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 22:07:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5512 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5512 X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 966 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: johngrogan@ntlworld.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=sUp2gKnc-45p2XbyY98A:9 a=-CqTCX6Gy7b2wP0ODE0A:7 a=p1dh1Y9-fccIM2vhwfbYboMJ0eMA:4 a=btyeseNR-KIA:10 a=plE8mkVoi54A:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Nicoll - freelists" To: Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 9:03 PM Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future > What I like about DDL is that other programs can (or could) generate > output > in DDL form, for example one might be able to generate reports out of a > database system as DDL files, then a user could define how they wanted > various styles used in that report to look. I indeed have several RiscOS-based programs that do precisely that and David has been kind enough during their development not only to fix obscure bugs but also to enhance certain features relating to DDL output. I doubt I could have had that level of support from many other suppliers. I have had Ovation since it was first launched and always purchased upgrades - including the Windows version although I rarely use it. I intend to use RiscOS for my own software and for Ovation Pro for as long as I possibly can. If further Ovation Pro upgrades become available, I will undoubtedly continue to purchase them. [Sorry I didn't respond to the original request for contacts but I was away on holiday and wasn't overly keen on ploughing through the 150 or so "software list" e-mails when I came back!] Regards John Grogan To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jul 1 11:56:44 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KDCjz-4Vvknw-01-8qy.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 11:56:44 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KDCjz-4Vvknw-01-8qy; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 06:19:55 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KDCjz-4Vvknw-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 06:19:55 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KDCjz-0006lm-8A for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 06:19:55 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 62F28864D8F; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31423-10; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DC827864C15; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:19:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:19:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5B632864D8F for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:19:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31319-09 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:19:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com [81.103.221.49]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id DD682864AF5 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 02:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080630062506.ZBQH16629.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:25:06 +0100 Received: from iyonix.ntlworld.com ([82.1.169.32]) by aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20080630062229.IHYC29365.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@iyonix.ntlworld.com> for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 07:22:29 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Dr Alan Leighton X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.50 Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:32:09 +0100 Message-ID: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4fb726547fbbailey@argonet.co.uk> <256627b74f.alan@ntlworld.com> <4fb7297ff2charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb7297ff2charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.12 (MsgServe/3.42) (RISC-OS/5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 967 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: alan.leighton2@ntlworld.com Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=9_mS6Zt71KSn2U8pGGgA:9 a=vfEJ-dZelBg-5lgdH_wA:7 a=QR68NreYWIlL4qKB4DvnKywkGAQA:4 a=_dQi-Dcv4p4A:10 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1524] In message <4fb7297ff2charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> charles wrote: > In article <256627b74f.alan@ntlworld.com>, > Dr Alan Leighton wrote: > [Snip] >> I asked a PC main user are there many >> authors you can speak to directly and the answer is no it is all MS. > And that is a wrong answer. I own two rather specialised items of Windows > based software and I have been in direct contact with the authors of both. > One even by telephone, which isn't generally possible in the case of DP. I > say 'generally' since I did have a very useful conversation on the phone > with him back in 1995. I will tell him off then.;-) Alan -- To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jul 1 11:57:32 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KDQeh-1Kvknw-01-BzI.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 11:57:32 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KDQeh-1Kvknw-01-BzI; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 21:11:23 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KDQeh-1Kvknw-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 21:11:23 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KDQec-0006d2-Qe for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 21:11:22 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3EAE9867707; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:11:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20923-02; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:11:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B7241867718; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:11:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:10:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E5889867707 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20826-02 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail6.inspire.net.nz (mail6.inspire.net.nz [203.114.168.6]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 5A87D867681 for ; Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail5.inspire.net.nz (unknown [10.0.168.5]) by mail6.inspire.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56F242AADBD for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 09:10:37 +1200 (NZST) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.0.168.8]) by mail5.inspire.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BBF5DBA9E for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 09:10:37 +1200 (NZST) Received: from mail5.inspire.net.nz ([10.0.168.5]) by localhost (mail8.inspire.net.nz [10.0.168.8]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ep0fXppy7pGq for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 09:06:06 +1200 (NZST) Received: from freja.khnet.nz (203-114-180-66.dsl.sta.inspire.net.nz [203.114.180.66]) by mail5.inspire.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC21BDBA7C for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 09:10:36 +1200 (NZST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Keith Hopper To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 09:10:53 +1200 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb7bb0c76asgard@inspire.net.nz> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.11) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 968 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: asgard@inspire.net.nz Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=idWefj6KFoSuh49EB8oA:9 a=Z7Z6kAQwEYV-J7PlBQ4A:7 a=T5anAoGTz0vE7VjDlNcmck6UvtIA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1528] In article , David Pilling wrote: > In message <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Bailey > writes > >> My current disillusion with Windows is due to the realisation that years > >> of work are now needed just to add the basic requirements. > >That seems to be more than slightly paradoxical. Surely, the development > >of OvatPro has already progressed well beyond what might be called the > >basic requirements. It would, therefore, be interesting to know what you > >have in mind. > OLE support > WMF support > Tables > MS Word import > A brand new user interface for Windows > Sorting out some of the bugs that have been allowed to persist > >> >Why not make DDL standard OvPro format and leave the binary one for > >> >loading legacy documents? > >in the main, but the very constraint offered by legacy file formats is I > >feel the very reason preventing the expansion of the use of RISC OS > >software on this and other platforms. It is certainly a significant > That is a good point, the DDL format is much more extendable than the > binary one - sometimes new features have been limited to fit in the old > file format. > Although DDL has its charms, one would realistically replace it with > XML. That is just another addition for the above list. If you chose to use the xml language used by OpenOffice then you might get unexpected bonuses!?! Keith -- Inspired! To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jul 1 21:16:20 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KDgQb-0FVGPo-07-DGQ.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 21:16:20 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KDgQb-0FVGPo-07-DGQ; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:01:53 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KDgQb-0FVGPo-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:01:53 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KDgQb-0007aj-1n for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:01:53 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 74E79867FE6; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 10:01:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15419-06; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 10:01:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id EEA93867F59; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 10:01:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:01:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 11579868086 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 10:01:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 15141-03 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 10:01:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from relay.freeuk.net (relay.freeuk.net [212.126.144.54]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D032186806B for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 10:01:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from du-002-0064.freeuk.com ([212.126.156.64] helo=bbailey.freeuk.com.) by relay.freeuk.net with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1KDgPw-000DFu-8A for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 15:01:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Brian Bailey To: davidpilling@freelists.org Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:59:06 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future Message-ID: <4fb8175a90bbailey@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 969 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: bbailey@argonet.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=PeSrGs0NLesjlNpOTaYA:9 a=s6olkZjd5eI_6IpDuZAA:7 a=dYm8d8Vd5gIb_oO4NRM6CRomkIYA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1528] In article , David Pilling wrote: > In message <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Bailey > writes [snip] > >It would, therefore, be interesting to know what you > >have in mind. > OLE support > WMF support > Tables > MS Word import > A brand new user interface for Windows > Sorting out some of the bugs that have been allowed to persist > >> >Why not make DDL standard OvPro format and leave the binary one for > >> >loading legacy documents? > >in the main, but the very constraint offered by legacy file formats is I > >feel the very reason preventing the expansion of the use of RISC OS > >software on this and other platforms. It is certainly a significant > That is a good point, the DDL format is much more extendable than the > binary one - sometimes new features have been limited to fit in the old > file format. > Although DDL has its charms, one would realistically replace it with > XML. That is just another addition for the above list. Is it possible to get a handle on the above, please. My experience of commerce and engineering is steel and concrete usually running into many 1000's of tons, not software by any standard, so I don't know what the implications of the above are. Which of the above needs a significant core re-write of OvatProW or can some of these options be carried out via Applets. If the latter could these activities be 'sub-let', so to speak? Is this practicable? Tables! Now that's tricky. Personally, the flexibility and comprehensiveness of TableMate sets the lowest common denominator standard for my work, but could that too be resolved via an Applet? Equally, could the above be prioritised to make things more manageable? Again, just thinking out loud. To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jul 1 21:31:12 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KDmPT-12U000-01-Fo4.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 21:31:12 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KDmPT-12U000-01-Fo4; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 20:25:07 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KDmPT-12U000-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 20:25:07 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KDmPR-0002lr-E9 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 20:25:07 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id A36B7868217; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 16:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04276-07; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 16:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 31095868311; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 16:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:24:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 703DE86825C for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 16:24:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04144-06 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 16:24:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3EEAE868217 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 16:24:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KDmOn-000A0e-3i for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 20:24:25 +0000 Message-ID: <4Jtk7VApHpaIFw8P@pilling.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 21:22:01 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4fb8175a90bbailey@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4fb8175a90bbailey@argonet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 970 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=FuYnd1aZFbkhsYRdcG0A:9 a=bNUMTGKHEMhVMCWIGiAA:7 a=266k1bfpEtaMLCAwfRZ-_vy2yLkA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1528] In message <4fb8175a90bbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Bailey writes >Which of the above needs a significant core re-write of OvatProW or can >some of these options be carried out via Applets. If the latter could >these activities be 'sub-let', so to speak? Is this practicable? There are limits to what applets can do. So most of the things I suggested need work on the main program. MS Word import/export could be done as an extension (a filter/transloader rather than an applet), and that means it could be done by a third party. >Tables! Now that's tricky. Personally, the flexibility and >for my work, but could that too be resolved via an Applet? People have had a go at tables applets, but realistically to provide something useful they have to be part of the main program. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jul 1 21:46:12 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KDmha-1nu000-01-FVx.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 21:46:12 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KDmha-1nu000-01-FVx; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 20:43:50 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KDmha-1nu000-01 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 20:43:50 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KDmhX-00069t-Bl for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 20:43:50 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id D774A866894; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 16:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07291-02; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 16:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4896B864CAF; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 16:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:43:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 4CAD08671C7 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 16:43:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07117-04 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 16:43:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (zen.orpheusnet.co.uk [194.93.128.18]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 60EB3867122 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 16:43:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from iyonix.orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk ([88.202.216.124]) by zen.orpheusnet.co.uk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m61KgbbJ029354 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 21:42:38 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: O-Pro's future To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: Alan Adams X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.42 Date: Tue, 01 Jul 2008 21:42:40 +0100 Message-ID: <394d3cb84f.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> References: <4fb3d31088Lists@torrens.org.uk> <4fb45d73famonster@caverock.net.nz> <4fb66bd462bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4fb8175a90bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4Jtk7VApHpaIFw8P@pilling.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4Jtk7VApHpaIFw8P@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/5.04 (MsgServe/3.35) (RISC-OS/5.11) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 971 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: alan@adamshome.org.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=Kc0a6QvqAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=KEM1sdOcw9MhNfp42gcA:9 a=JkgaSEtcZgWOnUseVhQA:7 a=4mHorLDNSwkEitfs4rv3vly9bjAA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1528] In message <4Jtk7VApHpaIFw8P@pilling.demon.co.uk> David Pilling wrote: > In message <4fb8175a90bbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Bailey > writes >>Which of the above needs a significant core re-write of OvatProW or can >>some of these options be carried out via Applets. If the latter could >>these activities be 'sub-let', so to speak? Is this practicable? > There are limits to what applets can do. So most of the things I > suggested need work on the main program. MS Word import/export could be > done as an extension (a filter/transloader rather than an applet), and > that means it could be done by a third party. >>Tables! Now that's tricky. Personally, the flexibility and >>for my work, but could that too be resolved via an Applet? > People have had a go at tables applets, but realistically to provide > something useful they have to be part of the main program. That would also help with Word import - tables get used quite a lot (badly in many cases). The other messy bit is likely to be WordArt - not just fancy text effects but drawings as well. -- Alan Adams, from Northamptonshire alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/ To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Tue Jul 1 23:01:13 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KDnu5-4XB000-03-EJS.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 23:01:13 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KDnu5-4XB000-03-EJS; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:00:49 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KDnu5-4XB000-03 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:00:49 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KDnu5-0002D3-95 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:00:49 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B6EBF867FD2; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:00:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14550-06; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:00:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 3FF6886801E; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:00:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 01 Jul 2008 18:00:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 7BD51867FD2 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:00:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14401-09 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:00:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ipmail05.adl2.internode.on.net (ipmail05.adl2.internode.on.net [203.16.214.145]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id E190B867F04 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:00:10 -0400 (EDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AtYAAORDakh5LEy4/2dsb2JhbAAIszg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,733,1204464600"; d="scan'208";a="149201109" Received: from ppp121-44-76-184.lns10.syd6.internode.on.net (HELO [192.168.1.102]) ([121.44.76.184]) by ipmail05.adl2.internode.on.net with ESMTP; 02 Jul 2008 07:30:07 +0930 Message-ID: <486AA8F7.3090908@internode.on.net> Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 08:00:23 +1000 From: Peter Prewett User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ovation software list Subject: [softwarelist] crops and bleed included Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 972 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: pprewett@internode.on.net Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=PCL6avcLCbQA:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=NG6zj_Fpyos4WF2PguwA:9 a=4F3B8s_O-z2FwUgTmxUA:7 a=-uc7toyE_zxXjeEQ0bL_GERkVSIA:4 a=gi0PWCVxevcA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1528] I am at the stage of getting my creation printed and the print shop has responded with a request that the document be:- /The files/artwork need to be supplied at 300DPi @ 100%, with *crops and bleed included. Don't send as spreads, just one pdf per page. */ /**/ I am not understanding the crops and bleeds and how they can be incorporated. I am using Ovation Pro on Windows. Peter -- Peter Prewett, Tumut, New South Wales To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jul 2 11:47:56 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KDoX2-12tknw-08-DgV.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:47:56 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KDoX2-12tknw-08-DgV; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:41:04 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.245] (lhlo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KDoX2-12tknw-08 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:41:04 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KDoX1-0003LZ-Ig for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:41:03 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 1393B867095; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:41:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17593-07; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:41:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 88EB186793F; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:41:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Tue, 01 Jul 2008 18:40:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 705C9867095 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17485-06 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:40:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 40662866300 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 2008 18:40:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KDoWN-0009Xr-2r for davidpilling@freelists.org; Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:40:24 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 23:40:11 +0100 To: davidpilling@freelists.org From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Re: crops and bleed included References: <486AA8F7.3090908@internode.on.net> In-Reply-To: <486AA8F7.3090908@internode.on.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S () X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 973 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=s_0rxkUncN4A:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=dqhQn4rJAAAA:8 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=4kKp12NNWYV4bY1ohMUA:9 a=UX1eOMEEf9xqdrBSlygA:7 a=awPClsG-9QA_Ur-X-1b6ATX5R1cA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1529] In message <486AA8F7.3090908@internode.on.net>, Peter Prewett writes >I am at the stage of getting my creation printed and the print shop has >responded with a request that the document be:- > >/The files/artwork need to be supplied at 300DPi @ 100%, with *crops >and bleed included. Don't send as spreads, just one pdf per page. */ >/**/ >I am not understanding the crops and bleeds and how they can be >incorporated. > >I am using Ovation Pro on Windows. Have a look at the commercial printing section of the manual. Roughly speaking, you print your e.g. A4 document to a "printer" with a page size somewhat larger than A4, and tell OP to allow the pages to bleed and to add crop marks. If you have any pictures that should go over the page edges then you can enable the pasteboard (view menu) to get that right. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling From davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Wed Jul 2 11:48:20 2008 Received: from pop3.demon.co.uk by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1KDwAb-2rVGPo-07-EZS.pilling@pop3.demon.co.uk> for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 11:48:20 +0100 Return-Path: Received: from punt3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1KDwAb-2rVGPo-07-EZS; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 06:50:25 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.106] (lhlo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt3.mail.demon.net with lmtp id 1KDwAb-2rVGPo-07 for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 06:50:25 +0000 Received: from [206.53.239.180] (helo=turing.freelists.org) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1KDwAa-0006Rd-RM for flist@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 06:50:25 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 384B286823B; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 02:50:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30600-06; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 02:50:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id B2556868DD5; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 02:50:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list davidpilling); Wed, 02 Jul 2008 02:49:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Original-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Delivered-To: davidpilling@freelists.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 9A32886823B for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 02:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from turing.freelists.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (turing.freelists.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30489-08 for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 02:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by turing.freelists.org (Avenir Technologies Mail Multiplex) with ESMTP id 6584D86743E for ; Wed, 2 Jul 2008 02:49:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from charleshope.demon.co.uk ([80.177.174.79] helo=iyonix) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.67) id 1KDw9w-000P9l-1e for davidpilling@freelists.org; Wed, 02 Jul 2008 06:49:44 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: charles To: Ovation software list Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2008 07:49:43 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: crops and bleed included Message-ID: <4fb873e10bcharles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <486AA8F7.3090908@internode.on.net> References: <486AA8F7.3090908@internode.on.net> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.11) POPstar/2.05 Content-Type: text/plain X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-archive-position: 974 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org Errors-to: davidpilling-bounce@freelists.org X-original-sender: charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk Precedence: normal Reply-to: davidpilling@freelists.org List-help: List-unsubscribe: List-software: Ecartis version 1.0.0 List-Id: davidpilling X-List-ID: davidpilling List-subscribe: List-owner: List-post: List-archive: X-list: davidpilling X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at localhost.localdomain X-CNFS-Analysis: v=1.0 c=1 a=s_0rxkUncN4A:10 a=cwSeiBLpj2MA:10 a=pMdtZHg6hnHVLmAUEJaFkA==:17 a=D_VmOLqjAAAA:8 a=8XjLegZj0pskfLdRDfAA:9 a=rmHpwrGBkrXiOPm8M2MA:7 a=CZ66F72UEVbId5jBJt9hFKo0DMsA:4 a=5WZzfXpOq_gA:10 X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 8.0.131 [270.4.3/1529] In article <486AA8F7.3090908@internode.on.net>, Peter Prewett wrote: > I am at the stage of getting my creation printed and the print shop has > responded with a request that the document be:- > /The files/artwork need to be supplied at 300DPi @ 100%, with *crops and > bleed included. Don't send as spreads, just one pdf per page. */ > /**/ > I am not understanding the crops and bleeds and how they can be > incorporated. bleed is where the background colour goes over the edge of the paper. In OvPro set the frame size so that it does just that, on the left side of the paper set the frame co-ordinates to a negative number, say -2mm. > I am using Ovation Pro on Windows. > Peter -- >From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey" Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11 To unsubscribe or subscribe goto: http://www.freelists.org/list/davidpilling