From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 8 22:51:37 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DK1KX-0006hX-3l-0006hr."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 22:51:37 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DK1KX-0006hX-3l; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 21:47:57 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DK1KX-0006hX-3l; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 21:47:57 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DK1KX-0000ae-0u; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 21:47:57 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DK1K8-0005bH-NJ; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 22:47:32 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j38Ll7U03595 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 22:47:07 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j38Ll7V03591 for ; Fri, 8 Apr 2005 22:47:07 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DK1Ji-0000Sd-Et for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 08 Apr 2005 21:47:06 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 22:45:55 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] DTP Principles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_10,CLICK_BELOW,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, This may be of interest ====================================================== Free Download: DTP Principles Alligata Media's DTP Principles guide is now available as a free download through The Cybervillage. Click the link below to download a Zip file containing a fully indexed PDF file. We'll have more details on this site in the next few days, but for the moment read away! http://acorn.cybervillage.co.uk/DTPPrinciples.pdf.zip ===================================================== Amusingly this seems to be set up to confuse IE. Right click and save to disc if you're using Windows. I read this about this on http://www.drobe.co.uk/ -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 9 13:47:11 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKBIK-0006xo-PS-0006yI."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:47:11 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKBIK-0006xo-PS; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 08:26:21 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKBIK-0006xo-PS; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 08:26:20 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKBIK-0007Ug-Nv; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 08:26:20 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKBHu-0002fs-Pe; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 09:25:54 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j398PUs11305 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:25:30 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j398PTV11302 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:25:29 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from g1rcw.demon.co.uk ([83.104.136.204] helo=g1rcw) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKBF1-000Evm-4a for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 08:22:55 +0000 Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 09:25:02 +0100 From: John Chetwynd To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <0f33ce584d.John@g1rcw.demon.co.uk> References: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/3.12 (MsgServe/3.00) (RISC-OS/5.08) POPstar/2.04-pre2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,CLICK_BELOW,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In message David Pilling wrote: > Hi, > > This may be of interest > > ====================================================== > > Free Download: DTP Principles > Alligata Media's DTP Principles guide is now available as a free > download through The Cybervillage. Click the link below to download a > Zip file containing a fully indexed PDF file. We'll have more details on > this site in the next few days, but for the moment read away! > > http://acorn.cybervillage.co.uk/DTPPrinciples.pdf.zip > > ===================================================== > [SNIP] Being the sort that needs all the help he can get with DTP, I have already downloaded this. Other books I can thoroughly recommend are by the author Robin Williams. She puts it all across in a style that is easy to absorb and the good thing is that they are largely 'platform independant' (although she is a MAC advocate). The titles are: Non-Designers Design Book (2nd edition) Robin Williams Design Workshop She also writes excellent books on web design. It was Mike Williams (Acorn Publisher) that put me onto her books. Other good books are: The Makeover Book by Roger C. Parker Newsletters From the Desktop by Joe Grossman and David Doty (Though I'm sure if these last two are still in print) Advert over -- John Chetwynd Iyonix PC, running RISC OS v5.08 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 9 13:47:12 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKBoi-0001vK-Oi-0001vu."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:47:12 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKBoi-0001vK-Oi; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 08:59:49 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKBoi-0001vK-Oi; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 08:59:48 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKBoi-00046I-Gh; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 08:59:48 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKBj0-0000MQ-1s; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 09:53:54 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j398rlx25268 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:53:47 +0100 Received: from ranger.systems.pipex.net (ranger.systems.pipex.net [62.241.162.32]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j398rlY25263 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:53:47 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from MARSDEN9.btinternet.com (81-86-166-106.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.166.106]) by ranger.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02321E0000C2 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:53:46 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <6.0.3.0.2.20050409095114.01efd1d0@mail.btinternet.com> X-Sender: phillip.marsden@mail.btinternet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.3.0 Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 09:52:24 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: Phillip Marsden Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-4C5A4270 Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) At 22:45 08/04/2005, David Pilling wrote: >[snip] > >Amusingly this seems to be set up to confuse IE. Right click and save to >disc if you're using Windows. But not Firefox. It worked as expected. :o) -- Regards, Phillip Marsden. phillip.marsden@btinternet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.5 - Release Date: 07/04/2005 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 9 13:47:12 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKCWx-00028u-NF-00029l."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:47:12 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKCWx-00028u-NF; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 09:45:32 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKCWx-00028u-NF; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 09:45:31 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.31] (helo=smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKCWx-0006Mh-2P; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 09:45:31 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKCWd-0007Vi-Av; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 10:45:11 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j399j0e10757 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:45:00 +0100 Received: from mail.jtfreesurf.co.uk (mail.jtfreesurf.co.uk [212.9.8.7]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with SMTP id j399ixX10752 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 10:44:59 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from iyonix ([82.112.132.184]) by mail.jtfreesurf.co.uk (Merak 7.6.4) with SMTP id KLA74787 for ; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 10:44:54 +0100 Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 10:45:07 +0100 From: michael talibard To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Organization: home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.71 (MsgServe/2.13) (RISC-OS/5.08) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by svr1.spellings.net id j399ixX10753 Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_10,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In message you wrote: > Hi, > This may be of interest > Free Download: DTP Principles > etc Thanks for the tip. A quick read suggests it's good˜as are the Robin Williams books mentioned by John Chetwynd. Oh that such advice were heeded by Qercus (especially on paragraph lay-out)! -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 9 21:57:29 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKMzt-0000ZR-4m-0000aI."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:57:29 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKMzt-0000ZR-4m; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 20:56:06 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKMzt-0000ZR-4m; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 20:56:05 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKMzt-0001Ws-9X; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 20:56:05 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKMzV-0005z9-Db; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 21:55:41 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j39KtKU10926 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:55:20 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.86]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j39KtIt10904 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:55:18 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKMz7-0007AU-Lj for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 20:55:17 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 21:57:51 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article , michael talibard wrote: > In message you wrote: > > Hi, This may be of interest Free Download: DTP Principles etc > Thanks for the tip. A quick read suggests it's good-as are the Robin > Williams books mentioned by John Chetwynd. Oh that such advice were > heeded by Qercus (especially on paragraph lay-out)! I'm happy to listen. What is wrong with the paragraph layout in Qercus? -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 9 22:37:31 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKNZV-0000Ht-PE-0000IG."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 22:37:31 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKNZV-0000Ht-PE; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 21:32:54 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKNZV-0000Ht-PE; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 21:32:53 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKNZV-0004QF-MP; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 21:32:53 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKNZH-0000N5-9N; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:32:39 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j39LWP121818 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 22:32:25 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j39LWPx21815 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 22:32:25 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from lowrys.demon.co.uk ([62.49.21.208] helo=omega.lowrys.demon.co.uk) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKNWY-000OYH-3o for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 21:29:50 +0000 Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:32:12 +0100 From: Ian Lowry To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Matchstick User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/3.12 (MsgServe/3.00S) (RISC-OS/4.39) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In message <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> John Cartmell wrote: [snip] > I'm happy to listen. What is wrong with the paragraph layout in Qercus? > I found the asymmetric layout of columns to be very ugly. Ian -- Ian Lowry Wales, Europe. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 9 23:07:32 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKO4a-0007b1-Ml-0007bb."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 23:07:32 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKO4a-0007b1-Ml; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:05:00 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKO4a-0007b1-Ml; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:05:00 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKO4Z-0006gS-TO; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:04:59 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKO4U-0007Ly-W4; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 23:04:54 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j39M3tk31454 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 23:03:55 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.86]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j39M3t931451 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 23:03:55 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKO3W-000Gx5-JU for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:03:55 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 23:02:14 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03h (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_SHORT_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk>, Ian Lowry wrote: > In message <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> > John Cartmell wrote: > [snip] > > I'm happy to listen. What is wrong with the paragraph layout in > > Qercus? > > > I found the asymmetric layout of columns to be very ugly. I think there's too much whitespace around them - I'm always suspicious that a lack of material is being stretched to fit too big a space. In the current edition (issue 274), I'd say that pages 10 and 28 are dire, especially in a magazine that's supposed to show good DTP practice. There may be other bad examples, but I haven't reached them yet. Also, John, there are lots of other problems which I really wish you'd fix - mostly things that decent proof reading should trap - I'll probably email you about those at some point). Perhaps this just means that the page layout used for plain text does not work for articles which have lots of screenshots and/or pieces of sample code. I hate seeing code, that really needs indented for clarity anyway, crammed into short lines so that nearly every line has wrapped. It's ok if you're an expert reading it, but wildly unhelpful to any beginners. -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 9 23:57:34 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKOsV-00012J-4u-00012k."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 23:57:34 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKOsV-00012J-4u; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:56:36 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKOsV-00012J-4u; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:56:35 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKOsV-0002VC-92; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:56:35 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKOsP-0004SJ-2d; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 23:56:29 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j39MtcV14491 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 23:55:38 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.86]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j39Mtai14487 for ; Sat, 9 Apr 2005 23:55:36 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKOrX-000Nd1-MB for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 22:55:36 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 23:55:39 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d591de7f2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk>, Ian Lowry wrote: > In message <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> > John Cartmell wrote: > [snip] > > I'm happy to listen. What is wrong with the paragraph layout in Qercus? > > > I found the asymmetric layout of columns to be very ugly. But that's not paragraph layout! ;-) the 7-column base that I use allows me to apply various effects across a range of article styles and incorporate clearer captions, allow greater flexibility to illustration placement, add eye-catch quotes, and all without varying the underlying layout. With the range of styles that are needed to cope with the variety of articles that's very handy. I'll still be happy to hear of any alternatives that cope with the problems. -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sun Apr 10 00:17:35 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKP7E-0004PB-Eh-0004RT."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 00:17:35 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKP7E-0004PB-Eh; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 23:11:49 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKP7E-0004PB-Eh; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 23:11:48 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKP7E-0006S6-CV; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 23:11:48 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKP6l-0007tP-Dl; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 00:11:19 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j39NAeo20513 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 00:10:40 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.86]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j39NAdU20501 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 00:10:39 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKP66-000PPq-MC for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 09 Apr 2005 23:10:39 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 00:10:48 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > In article <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk>, > Ian Lowry wrote: > > In message <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> > > John Cartmell wrote: > > [snip] > > > I'm happy to listen. What is wrong with the paragraph layout in > > > Qercus? > > > > > I found the asymmetric layout of columns to be very ugly. > I think there's too much whitespace around them - I'm always suspicious > that a lack of material is being stretched to fit too big a space. Quite the opposite. It enables me to get more in without totally changing the layout for every article. > In the current edition (issue 274), I'd say that pages 10 and 28 are > dire, especially in a magazine that's supposed to show good DTP > practice. Both were extraordinarily difficult to do. Page 10 in particular had illustrations that had to be in colour - and page 11 was a monochrome page. I could (and did) produce a far better layout across both pages - but couldn't afford the cost. I'd agree that page 10 has too many illustrations. Page 28 illustrates the balance between your comments above and below. The listings really need more space so that there is no line wrapping - but then there would be far too much white space! I try for a balance and box long sections of code (see the Starting Basic article) and use yellow page layout if necessary. [Snip] > Perhaps this just means that the page layout used for plain text does > not work for articles which have lots of screenshots and/or pieces of > sample code. It doesn't. There has to be a compromise and I'll always be interested in ideas to achieve a better compromise. One possibility is to have two (or three) totally different layouts to cope with the range of articles - but I'm sure there would be complaints about that! > I hate seeing code, that really needs indented for clarity anyway, > crammed into short lines so that nearly every line has wrapped. It's ok > if you're an expert reading it, but wildly unhelpful to any beginners. Which is why I work very hard to get that right in the specifically 'beginners' articles. For a forthcoming series on programming we're doing even more but that requires an extra-ordinary amount of communication between author and editor - and access to a number of articles long in advance of publication; in the case in question we're working on the first five articles - and the first won't appear for 3 months. That's normally impossible. -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sun Apr 10 02:17:41 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKR1Z-0001nx-43-0001oO."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 02:17:41 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKR1Z-0001nx-43; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 01:14:06 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKR1Z-0001nx-43; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 01:14:05 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKR1Z-0003jE-3O; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 01:14:05 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKR1U-00031V-1D; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 02:14:00 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3A1CvF07717 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 02:12:57 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3A1Cus07714 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 02:12:56 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKR0S-0007vK-7h for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 01:12:56 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 02:11:38 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I think there's too much whitespace around them - I'm always suspicious > that a lack of material is being stretched to fit too big a space. Out of all the Acorn magazines over the years, many of them produced on Ovation Pro (or Impression, and a few on Macs) do you have favourite layouts? Who got it right? I do recall issue #1 of Beebug magazine, and improvements in software/hardware made things look better 20 years later. The same is true if you get hold of an old copy of a newspaper and compare it with todays. Would better software give better results? -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:06:36 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKWRQ-0006fK-As-0006fm."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:06:36 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKWRQ-0006fK-As; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:01:09 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKWRQ-0006fK-As; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:01:08 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKWRQ-0000c6-77; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:01:08 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKWRL-0000PM-3C; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:01:03 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3A70XE14715 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:00:33 +0100 Received: from mail.jtfreesurf.co.uk (mail.jtfreesurf.co.uk [212.9.8.7]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with SMTP id j3A70WS14712 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:00:32 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from iyonix ([82.112.132.184]) by mail.jtfreesurf.co.uk (Merak 7.6.4) with SMTP id KLA74787 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:00:27 +0100 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:00:44 +0100 From: michael talibard To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.71 (MsgServe/2.13) (RISC-OS/5.08) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by svr1.spellings.net id j3A70XS14713 Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In message <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > I'm happy to listen. What is wrong with the paragraph > layout in Qercus? OK. Let's distinguish three kinds of paragraph break: New line, indent. ('book-style') As well as all books, this is used in a lot of magazines, such as Gramophone. It looks traditional, correct, and it fits more in. New line, new line. ('secretarial') This started life in business letters, but is used as standard in emails (as here) and in some magazines. It looks more modern, leaves more white space. New line only. ('minimal') This is˜rightly˜never recommended by style guides, as it's ugly and robs the paragraphing of clarity. But its use is growing, especially where the desire is to fit a lot into a tiny area (e.g. CD booklets). Whichever you choose, it is good style to stick to it consistently: maybe for the whole magazine, but at least for whole sections, or 'chapters'. What Qercus does is to go for secretarial as standard but to allow that to collapse into minimal once or twice per story if that fits things in. This looks amateur. There's also consistency of column layout, but I don't want to go on for too long. For its content, I like Qercus. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:06:38 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKYCu-0007KN-I1-0007Kk."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:06:38 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKYCu-0007KN-I1; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:54:17 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKYCu-0007KN-I1; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:54:16 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKYCu-0006Nx-ET; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:54:16 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKYCb-0007RL-RI; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:53:57 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3A8rgJ28236 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:53:42 +0100 Received: from mail.jtfreesurf.co.uk (mail.jtfreesurf.co.uk [212.9.8.7]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with SMTP id j3A8rfP28230 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:53:42 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from iyonix ([82.112.132.184]) by mail.jtfreesurf.co.uk (Merak 7.6.4) with SMTP id KLA74787 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:53:36 +0100 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 09:53:56 +0100 From: michael talibard To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4aae54594d.michael@talibard.com> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.71 (MsgServe/2.13) (RISC-OS/5.08) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by svr1.spellings.net id j3A8rgP28234 Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In message you wrote: > Would better software give better results? I'd say the software is certainly good enough. It's how you use it. In a certain sense, it might be too good˜tempting one to use all the bells and whistles in contexts where simplicity and consistency would work better. But that's not the fault of the software, which can never teach taste and judgment. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:06:41 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKZb8-00000u-Lw-000022."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:06:41 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKZb8-00000u-Lw; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:23:23 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKZb8-00000u-Lw; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:23:22 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKZb8-0005jP-LD; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 10:23:22 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKZb3-0002dp-KO; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:23:17 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3AAMc917163 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:22:38 +0100 Received: from astro.systems.pipex.net (astro.systems.pipex.net [62.241.163.6]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3AAMbQ17160 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:22:37 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from RiscPC (81-178-198-243.dsl.pipex.com [81.178.198.243]) by astro.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F3D0E000045 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:22:36 +0100 (BST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:20:33 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d595c9bf1steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> In-Reply-To: <4aae54594d.michael@talibard.com> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4aae54594d.michael@talibard.com> User-Agent: Pluto/2.05-a1 (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.04-pre2 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_SHORT_SPARSE, USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On 10 Apr, michael talibard wrote: > In message you wrote: > > Would better software give better results? > I'd say the software is certainly good enough. > It's how you use it. In a certain sense, it might > be too good-tempting one to use all the bells > and whistles in contexts where simplicity and > consistency would work better. But that's not > the fault of the software, which can never teach > taste and judgment. In my advice to people doing layout/DTP I tend to point them at the Robin Williams texts, but modify the base advice mnemonic - She gives CARP I use CRAP still covering Contrast Repetition Alignment Proximity but for some reason people tend to remember the advice better. :-) That and advising that neither I nor people immediately around them make good models of how to do things. -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:06:42 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKah7-0007DP-Ht-0007Ds."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:06:42 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKah7-0007DP-Ht; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:33:38 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKah7-0007DP-Ht; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:33:37 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKah7-0004jG-CA; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:33:37 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKah2-0001Gt-Hr; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:33:32 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3ABXFu08444 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:33:15 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3ABXEa08440 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:33:14 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKagj-000FoW-CF for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:33:13 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:31:00 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com>, michael talibard wrote: > In message <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > > I'm happy to listen. What is wrong with the paragraph layout in > > Qercus? > OK. Let's distinguish three kinds of paragraph break: Before the list - some background: We looked at all the styles and looked for comments from tyoical readers. We also included the 'more correct' electronic paragraphing with an automatic partial line space; that doesn't work when good design requires you to line up lines across columns. > New line, indent. ('book-style') As well as all books, this is used in a > lot of magazines, such as Gramophone. It looks traditional, correct, and > it fits more in. This was the least favoured style as it produced a too 'blocky' impression 'suitable for a novel but not a tutorial' and not seen as 'magazine style'. > New line, new line. ('secretarial') This started life in business > letters, but is used as standard in emails (as here) and in some > magazines. It looks more modern, leaves more white space. This is the style we chose to use... > New line only. ('minimal') This is-rightly-never recommended by style > guides, as it's ugly and robs the paragraphing of clarity. But its use > is growing, especially where the desire is to fit a lot into a tiny > area (e.g. CD booklets). ..to give a half-paragraph effect - ie it's still the same subject but you need to pause at this point. > Whichever you choose, it is good style to stick to it consistently: > maybe for the whole magazine, but at least for whole sections, or > 'chapters'. > What Qercus does is to go for secretarial as standard but to allow that > to collapse into minimal once or twice per story if that fits things in. > This looks amateur. If there is backing to that view then I'll certainly reconsider the style. Personally I prefer the automatic part-line gap but it just looks very bad on columned pages. If anyone has any answers to this - the reason for taking up room in David's list - I'd be pleased to know about it. > There's also consistency of column layout, but I don't want to go on for > too long. Answered elsewhere. The base columning *is* consistent. > For its content, I like Qercus. We'll keep trying to improve the rest! -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:06:42 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKbLK-0000pn-LY-0000qW."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:06:42 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKbLK-0000pn-LY; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:15:11 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKbLK-0000pn-LY; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:15:10 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.31] (helo=smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKbLK-0006yO-GF; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:15:10 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKbKs-0001gw-V7; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:14:42 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3ACEWr13473 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:14:32 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3ACEWw13470 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:14:32 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from tenmagpies.demon.co.uk ([80.177.3.119] helo=iyonix.tenmagpies.demon.co.uk) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKbI5-000F31-Hb for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:11:49 +0000 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:15:37 +0100 From: David W Mills To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <092567594d.david@tenmagpies.demon.co.uk> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4aae54594d.michael@talibard.com> <4d595c9bf1steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> In-Reply-To: <4d595c9bf1steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> X-Organization: tenmagpies User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/3.12 (MsgServe/3.00) (RISC-OS/5.08) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_SHORT_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In message <4d595c9bf1steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> Steven Pampling wrote: > On 10 Apr, michael talibard wrote: > > In message you wrote: > > > > Would better software give better results? > > > I'd say the software is certainly good enough. > > It's how you use it. In a certain sense, it might > > be too good-tempting one to use all the bells > > and whistles in contexts where simplicity and > > consistency would work better. But that's not > > the fault of the software, which can never teach > > taste and judgment. I echo that sentiment! see below ..... > > In my advice to people doing layout/DTP I tend to point them at the Robin > Williams texts, but modify the base advice mnemonic - > > She gives CARP I use CRAP still covering Contrast Repetition Alignment > Proximity but for some reason people tend to remember the advice better. > :-) > > That and advising that neither I nor people immediately around them make > good models of how to do things. > As a Primary School teacher having to work "on the dark side" I tend to start all design work, whether DTP using Word etc or designing a piece of needle work or other technology, emphasising the Kiss Principle which we hwve paraphrsed as "Keep It Suitably/Sensibly Simple".(we don't want to upset anyone by caling them stupid..even when......) By trying to follow this we can then build on our foundations..... I timidly suggest that not enough people take this type of approach. Look at all forms of publishing for good examples. Currently we are designing webpages for our science/literacy project...note.. what we want them to look like.....we looked at lots of sites...almost universally the children decided that pages with easily readable text accompanied by pictures and/or diagrams were easiest to learn from,,, We'll put what we learn from this into practise later with posters and booklets! David -- -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:06:43 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKbsL-0005XS-IJ-0005Xt."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:06:43 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKbsL-0005XS-IJ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:49:18 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKbsL-0005XS-IJ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:49:17 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKbsL-0006vA-GT; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:49:17 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKbs3-0000EW-Md; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:48:59 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3ACmnJ19000 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:48:49 +0100 Received: from mail.jtfreesurf.co.uk (mail.jtfreesurf.co.uk [212.9.8.7]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with SMTP id j3ACmms18997 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:48:48 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from iyonix ([82.112.132.184]) by mail.jtfreesurf.co.uk (Merak 7.6.4) with SMTP id KLA74787 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:48:43 +0100 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:48:59 +0100 From: michael talibard To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <2d336a594d.michael@talibard.com> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com> <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.71 (MsgServe/2.13) (RISC-OS/5.08) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In message <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > ..to give a half-paragraph effect Ah, there's the heresy! -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:06:43 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKcJM-00003u-Ou-00004N."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:06:43 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKcJM-00003u-Ou; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:17:13 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKcJM-00003u-Ou; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:17:12 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKcJM-0005yE-IJ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:17:12 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKcJA-0001wF-05; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:17:00 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3ADGrT28140 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:16:53 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3ADGr428136 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:16:53 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKcJ1-00056s-AW for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:16:53 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:09:10 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d596c0c70Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03h (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_SHORT_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, John Cartmell wrote: > In article <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, > Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > > Perhaps this just means that the page layout used for plain text > > does not work for articles which have lots of screenshots and/or > > pieces of sample code. > It doesn't. There has to be a compromise and I'll always be > interested in ideas to achieve a better compromise. One possibility > is to have two (or three) totally different layouts to cope with the > range of articles - but I'm sure there would be complaints about that! You might get complaints, but I really don't see how an article with lots of code samples and/or screenshots can possibly work when you use three columns per page. And why, (eg p29 of issue 274) is column one separated from column 2 by lots of white space, when columns 2 and 3 are more or less adjacent? Also, there's nothing complex shown by the SaveAs screenshot on p29, so why is the picture the size it is? One column wide would have done fine, and would have made formatting the rest of the page far simpler. If you had to make it bigger, I think two columns wide would look nicer than the one-and-a-bit width you actually chose. Contrast this waste of space with the cramped layout of page 10 where essential details are too feint to be read easily and caption/ explanatory text under images almost needs a magnifying glass to be read. And you've wasted space (and certainly been inconsistent) with the "Fig 6 below" (etc) labels next to the orange bars (as well as one of those actually being for figure 7 not 6). And why did you use these orange-bar things just for figs 6 & 7, and not also for figs 8-13 on the same page? I'm sorry, but I think this page is just awful. And what happened to fig 5 on p8 - it's captioned but there's no picture. Then there's missing punctuation, inconsistencies like "water colour" and "watercolour" in the same paragraph... Whoever proof reads this magazine is not doing a good job. I only buy Qercus as an ex-AP buyer, and I want to see examples of good layout, not something that looks like a first stab at something. I also read Archive; when there's code there PB sometimes puts it in one column like you do (I dislike that) and sometimes puts it in a box that straddles two columns (much clearer). You need to remember that code samples are useless unless someone is going to study them or copy them out, and making them unreadable is a waste of time. Another possibility would be to list several code samples together in a big box or even on a page by themselves, and simply refer to them. It'd not be as pretty, but it would serve the purpose of having them much better. I don't think any of this is down to the software. I accept that, for example, colours of inks in illustrations (eg on p10) or widths of lines in those illustrations might be hard to judge before you see them on paper. There might still be problems when what you see on screen does not match what gets printed... but how many issues will you need to produce before you fix that? If you can't fix it, you should at least turn problems into a feature and explain them in detail, since all your DTP-loving readers will have the same problems if they try to publish their work. -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:06:44 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKcJp-0003HW-Bi-0003Hn."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:06:44 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKcJp-0003HW-Bi; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:17:42 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKcJp-0003HW-Bi; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:17:41 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKcJp-0007Xu-GJ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:17:41 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKcJA-0006xA-5i; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:17:00 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3ADGnI28108 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:16:49 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3ADGnW28105 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:16:49 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKcIx-00056s-BP for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:16:48 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 13:49:38 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d596a427fJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03h (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_SHORT_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com>, michael talibard wrote: > What Qercus does is to go for secretarial as standard but to allow > that to collapse into minimal once or twice per story if that fits > things in. This looks amateur. There's such a thing as major paragraph breaks and minor ones though. I've certainly used that idea in long texts before. But I do mean long - documents where single major paragraphs could be as long as - say - two thirds of a page. In some styles of document you'd maybe put section headings where I'd have used a major paragraph break, and then used ordinary para breaks where I used minor ones. In Qercus where all paragraphs are very short I see no need to have two different styles. -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:06:44 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKdCK-0005DO-LI-0005Dl."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:06:44 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKdCK-0005DO-LI; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:14:01 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKdCK-0005DO-LI; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:14:00 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKdCK-0004gY-EK; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:14:00 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKdCI-0001Yn-V2; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:13:58 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3AEDl315830 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:13:47 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3AEDkm15826 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:13:46 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKdC6-000D68-BL for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:13:46 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:13:22 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d5971ecedjohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d596a427fJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com> <4d596a427fJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <4d596a427fJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > In article <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com>, > michael talibard wrote: > > What Qercus does is to go for secretarial as standard but to allow > > that to collapse into minimal once or twice per story if that fits > > things in. This looks amateur. > There's such a thing as major paragraph breaks and minor ones though. > I've certainly used that idea in long texts before. But I do mean long > - documents where single major paragraphs could be as long as - say - > two thirds of a page. In some styles of document you'd maybe put > section headings where I'd have used a major paragraph break, and then > used ordinary para breaks where I used minor ones. In Qercus where all > paragraphs are very short I see no need to have two different styles. I'll certainly take those observations into consideration in future. Many thanks, -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:06:47 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKdCM-0005F0-L3-0005FV."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:06:47 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKdCM-0005F0-L3; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:14:03 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKdCM-0005F0-L3; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:14:02 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKdCM-0002x6-6A; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:14:02 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKdCI-00011i-Nv; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:13:58 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3AEDlA15828 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:13:47 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3AEDkI15822 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:13:46 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKdC5-000D68-C0 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:13:46 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:11:56 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d5971cb60john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d596c0c70Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d596c0c70Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <4d596c0c70Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > In article <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, John Cartmell > wrote: > > In article <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, Jeremy C B Nicoll > > wrote: > > > Perhaps this just means that the page layout used for plain text > > > does not work for articles which have lots of screenshots and/or > > > pieces of sample code. > > It doesn't. There has to be a compromise and I'll always be interested > > in ideas to achieve a better compromise. One possibility is to have > > two (or three) totally different layouts to cope with the range of > > articles - but I'm sure there would be complaints about that! > You might get complaints, but I really don't see how an article with > lots of code samples and/or screenshots can possibly work when you use > three columns per page. And why, (eg p29 of issue 274) is column one > separated from column 2 by lots of white space, when columns 2 and 3 are > more or less adjacent? It's a 7 column base. The columns that you see are either 1 column wide (eg captions), 2 columns wide (normal) or, occasionally, 3 columns wide. Using the normal 2-column width (ie 2/7 page width after margins and gutters) means that each page has a 1/7 column in which to expand illustrations, place captions, or include 'highlights'. > Also, there's nothing complex shown by the SaveAs screenshot on p29, so > why is the picture the size it is? One column wide would have done > fine, and would have made formatting the rest of the page far simpler. > If you had to make it bigger, I think two columns wide would look nicer > than the one-and-a-bit width you actually chose. You're probably right. > Contrast this waste of space with the cramped layout of page 10 where > essential details are too feint to be read easily and caption/ > explanatory text under images almost needs a magnifying glass to be > read. And you've wasted space (and certainly been inconsistent) with > the "Fig 6 below" (etc) labels next to the orange bars (as well as one > of those actually being for figure 7 not 6). And why did you use these > orange-bar things just for figs 6 & 7, and not also for figs 8-13 on the > same page? I'm sorry, but I think this page is just awful. Page 10 suffers from not being able to afford to make every page in Qercus full colour. We've improved a lot on Acorn User, and a bit on Acorn Publisher, but we're still limited by having to make some pages monochrome. The captions with the coloured band are in the caption column whilst those without are small boxes within the illustration space. It didn't work as well as intended. > And what happened to fig 5 on p8 - it's captioned but there's no picture. It was there in the original, faint in the proofs, and disappeared in the final version. Sorry. [Snip] > I also read Archive; when there's code there PB sometimes puts it in one > column like you do (I dislike that) and sometimes puts it in a box that > straddles two columns (much clearer). You need to remember that code > samples are useless unless someone is going to study them or copy them > out, and making them unreadable is a waste of time. Another possibility > would be to list several code samples together in a big box or even on a > page by themselves, and simply refer to them. It'd not be as pretty, > but it would serve the purpose of having them much better. That's why I frequently box code and sometimes place it on the Yellow Pages. > I don't think any of this is down to the software. I accept that, for > example, colours of inks in illustrations (eg on p10) or widths of lines > in those illustrations might be hard to judge before you see them on > paper. There might still be problems when what you see on screen does > not match what gets printed... but how many issues will you need to > produce before you fix that? As the software at the Printers changes what works and what doesn't - that's a moving question! > If you can't fix it, you should at least turn problems into a feature > and explain them in detail, since all your DTP-loving readers will have > the same problems if they try to publish their work. I did. The Printers managed to put some of the problems right for that issue! ;-( One big difficulty is that the problems vary wildly from one Printers to another. I've looked at a number of Printers in an attempt to identify some of our recalcitrant problems and what causes no difficulty at one Printers is found impossible to do at another - even thogh they are apparently using the same software and equipment. Over time we and our Printers have modified and re-modified our work to try to get every issue right first time. Over recent months we have returned to first principles and, in issue 274, find that most pages worked OK first time. There are still some problems (like fig 5) and still differences between the proof and final copy. But we're a lot closer than before, where to get a 100% correctly printed version might well have taken a month after the initial proofs. There are also outside factors; an example is that the proofs for 274 took 10 days to arrive by first class post - by which time we had had a second set of proofs run-off and accepted. NB If anyone wants to respond then, unless it is clearly something that changes in OPro or its use can modify, can you respond by personal e-mail. -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:06:52 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKihP-0004wV-HI-0004xD."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:06:52 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKihP-0004wV-HI; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 20:06:28 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKihP-0004wV-HI; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 20:06:27 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKihP-0005lq-6h; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 20:06:27 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKihM-0005QJ-5v; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:06:24 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3AK6As28141 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:06:10 +0100 Received: from desire.actrix.co.nz (desire.actrix.co.nz [203.96.16.164]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3AK68s28135 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:06:08 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from .actrix.gen.nz.actrix.co.nz (ak-d22.connections.net.nz [202.154.128.22]) by desire.actrix.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBA4A15699 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:05:54 +1200 (NZST) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 07:58:36 +1200 From: David Love To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <3d8891594d.zed@actrix.co.nz> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com> <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/3.12 (MsgServe/3.00) (RISC-OS/4.02) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In message <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> John Cartmell wrote: > In article <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com>, michael talibard > wrote: > > In message <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > > Whichever you choose, it is good style to stick to it consistently: > > maybe for the whole magazine, but at least for whole sections, or > > 'chapters'. > > > What Qercus does is to go for secretarial as standard but to allow that > > to collapse into minimal once or twice per story if that fits things in. > > This looks amateur. > > If there is backing to that view then I'll certainly reconsider the style. > Personally I prefer the automatic part-line gap but it just looks very bad > on columned pages. If anyone has any answers to this - the reason for > taking up room in David's list - I'd be pleased to know about it. I've subscribed to the magazine since the first issue of Acorn Publisher and, in my opinion, Mike Williams had perfected then ideal lay out. Could never understand, although I've never questioned it, why you had to mess around with it. Regards from New Zealand on a beautiful autumn morning. David -- David Love The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:06:53 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKk5b-0007M0-Ox-0007MV."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:06:53 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKk5b-0007M0-Ox; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:35:32 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKk5b-0007M0-Ox; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:35:31 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKk5b-00048G-Hb; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:35:31 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKk5X-0002YI-Qc; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:35:27 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3ALZDf01753 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:35:13 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3ALZCb01750 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:35:12 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKk5H-000HA4-CM for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:35:11 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:33:40 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d599a3c72john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <3d8891594d.zed@actrix.co.nz> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com> <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3d8891594d.zed@actrix.co.nz> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-7.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <3d8891594d.zed@actrix.co.nz>, David Love wrote: > In message <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> John Cartmell > wrote: > > In article <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com>, michael talibard > > wrote: > > > In message <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > > > Whichever you choose, it is good style to stick to it consistently: > > > maybe for the whole magazine, but at least for whole sections, or > > > 'chapters'. > > > > > What Qercus does is to go for secretarial as standard but to allow > > > that to collapse into minimal once or twice per story if that fits > > > things in. This looks amateur. > > > > If there is backing to that view then I'll certainly reconsider the > > style. Personally I prefer the automatic part-line gap but it just > > looks very bad on columned pages. If anyone has any answers to this - > > the reason for taking up room in David's list - I'd be pleased to know > > about it. > I've subscribed to the magazine since the first issue of Acorn Publisher > and, in my opinion, Mike Williams had perfected then ideal lay out. > Could never understand, although I've never questioned it, why you had > to mess around with it. Many reasons - but the main one is that Qercus has to cope with far more than Acorn Publisher. I had no choice about changes to fonts and other changes were forced on me by changes in the way the magazine had to be printed. Had he wanted/been able to continue Mike would also have had to make changes though probably not the same as the ones I chose. I'd contest that it was 'the perfect layout' (I'd contest that such things exist!) but in any case staying the same was never an option - even if I'd wanted to do that. -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:06:53 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKkMN-0004bV-AY-0004bx."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:06:53 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKkMN-0004bV-AY; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:52:52 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKkMN-0004bV-AY; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:52:51 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKkMM-0002Go-Vr; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:52:51 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKkMK-0004Z7-FJ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:52:48 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3ALqb406204 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:52:37 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3ALqbS06200 for ; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:52:37 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from cumbrian.demon.co.uk ([62.49.24.36] helo=riscpc) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKkM8-0008eJ-FS for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 21:52:37 +0000 Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:52:18 +0100 From: Chris Hughes To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <2bf19b594d.chris@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com> <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3d8891594d.zed@actrix.co.nz> <4d599a3c72john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d599a3c72john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/3.12 (MsgServe/3.00S) (RISC-OS/4.39) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In message <4d599a3c72john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> John Cartmell wrote: > In article <3d8891594d.zed@actrix.co.nz>, David Love > wrote: > > In message <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> John Cartmell > > wrote: > > > > In article <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com>, michael talibard > > > wrote: > > > > In message <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > > > > > Whichever you choose, it is good style to stick to it consistently: > > > > maybe for the whole magazine, but at least for whole sections, or > > > > 'chapters'. > > > > > > > What Qercus does is to go for secretarial as standard but to allow > > > > that to collapse into minimal once or twice per story if that fits > > > > things in. This looks amateur. > > > > > > If there is backing to that view then I'll certainly reconsider the > > > style. Personally I prefer the automatic part-line gap but it just > > > looks very bad on columned pages. If anyone has any answers to this - > > > the reason for taking up room in David's list - I'd be pleased to know > > > about it. > > > I've subscribed to the magazine since the first issue of Acorn Publisher > > and, in my opinion, Mike Williams had perfected then ideal lay out. > > Could never understand, although I've never questioned it, why you had > > to mess around with it. > > Many reasons - but the main one is that Qercus has to cope with far more > than Acorn Publisher. I had no choice about changes to fonts and other > changes were forced on me by changes in the way the magazine had to be > printed. Had he wanted/been able to continue Mike would also have had to > make changes though probably not the same as the ones I chose. I'd contest > that it was 'the perfect layout' (I'd contest that such things exist!) but > in any case staying the same was never an option - even if I'd wanted to do > that. I also agree that the layout / style of Acorn Publisher was and still is much better then the current to me poor layout. Sorry John, you already know some of my feelings on this and for a magazine supposedly also dedicated to DTP/design and well as being a more general RISC OS magazine, it now looks design wise a little poorly. Note there is nothing wrong with the actual features. Its the layout that the problem. -- Chris Hughes -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:06:54 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKlhk-0001LX-Jl-0001ME."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:06:54 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKlhk-0001LX-Jl; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 23:19:01 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKlhk-0001LX-Jl; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 23:19:00 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKlhj-0001md-Vv; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 23:19:00 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKlhH-0005w5-Ma; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 00:18:31 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3ANFYK17177 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 00:15:34 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3ANFXR17172 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 00:15:34 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKleN-0001lK-AQ for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sun, 10 Apr 2005 23:15:31 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 00:14:24 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d59a3757djohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <2bf19b594d.chris@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com> <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3d8891594d.zed@actrix.co.nz> <4d599a3c72john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2bf19b594d.chris@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <2bf19b594d.chris@cumbrian.demon.co.uk>, Chris Hughes wrote: > Its the layout that the problem. If someone wants to suggest an alternative that does cope with all the problems that I have to overcome then I'll be very pleased to learn. I've had a number of suggestions but so far the ones suggested have been able to deal with some pages but are far worse with others. I'll repeat: if the task was to simply repeat Acorn Publisher then it would be much easier. I do think I can improve on the current layout - but I'm not going to attempt a major change until I'm sure I have something that will cope with the whole range. Positive and constructive suggestions are *very* welcome. -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:06:54 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKmjd-0006Hq-KZ-0006IJ."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:06:54 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKmjd-0006Hq-KZ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 00:25:01 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKmjd-0006Hq-KZ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 00:25:01 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.31] (helo=smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKmjd-0001Tr-8D; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 00:25:01 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKmjM-0002sw-JD; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 01:24:44 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3B0OVV29416 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 01:24:31 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3B0OVj29410 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 01:24:31 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKmj7-000084-39 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 00:24:31 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 01:23:21 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d59a9c5a1Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d59a3757djohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com> <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3d8891594d.zed@actrix.co.nz> <4d599a3c72john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2bf19b594d.chris@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> <4d59a3757djohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03h (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_SHORT_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <4d59a3757djohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, John Cartmell wrote: > In article <2bf19b594d.chris@cumbrian.demon.co.uk>, Chris Hughes > wrote: > > Its the layout that the problem. > If someone wants to suggest an alternative that does cope with all > the problems that I have to overcome then I'll be very pleased to > learn. I've had a number of suggestions but so far the ones suggested > have been able to deal with some pages but are far worse with others. That'll always be true if you try to make plain text articles and others with code/pictures in them fit the same layout. There's never going to be an acceptable way of listing sample code in narrow columns. -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:06:54 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKrdZ-0006W2-G6-0006WH."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:06:54 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKrdZ-0006W2-G6; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 05:39:06 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKrdZ-0006W2-G6; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 05:39:05 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKrdZ-0007bZ-Rp; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 05:39:05 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKrdX-0002Nf-GM; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 06:39:03 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3B5cer30851 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 06:38:40 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3B5ccB30848 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 06:38:38 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKrd8-0000oG-Ab for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 05:38:38 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 06:40:47 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d59c6d545john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d59a9c5a1Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com> <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3d8891594d.zed@actrix.co.nz> <4d599a3c72john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2bf19b594d.chris@cumbrian.demon.co.uk> <4d59a3757djohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d59a9c5a1Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <4d59a9c5a1Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > In article <4d59a3757djohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, > John Cartmell wrote: > > In article <2bf19b594d.chris@cumbrian.demon.co.uk>, Chris Hughes > > wrote: > > > Its the layout that the problem. > > If someone wants to suggest an alternative that does cope with all > > the problems that I have to overcome then I'll be very pleased to > > learn. I've had a number of suggestions but so far the ones suggested > > have been able to deal with some pages but are far worse with others. > That'll always be true if you try to make plain text articles and > others with code/pictures in them fit the same layout. There's never > going to be an acceptable way of listing sample code in narrow columns. That's why I went for a 7-column base with the option to use 2 or 3 column width for text and even a 4 column width for boxed listing. The use of an odd-column base works well in New Scientist though they do cheat and also have another base for some pages! -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:06:55 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKu5L-0004aT-Jn-0004d9."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:06:55 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKu5L-0004aT-Jn; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:15:56 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKu5L-0004aT-Jn; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:15:55 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.31] (helo=smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKu5K-0002Vz-Pe; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:15:54 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKu5E-0003Cz-Pb; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:15:48 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3B8FTY15846 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:15:29 +0100 Received: from lon-mail-1.gradwell.net (lon-mail-1.gradwell.net [193.111.201.125]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3B8FS415839 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:15:29 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from magpieway.net ([62.3.222.108] helo=tony-lx.magpieway.net ident=tony^pop3&vanderhoff#org) by lon-mail-1.gradwell.net with esmtpa (Gradwell gwh-smtpd 1.181) id 425a321f.13448.31 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:15:27 +0100 (envelope-sender ) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:15:26 +0100 From: Tony van der Hoff To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net User-Agent: Gemini/2.20 (Qt/3.3.3) (Linux-i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) John Cartmell wrote in message <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> > In article <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, > Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > > In article <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk>, > > Ian Lowry wrote: > > > In message <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> > > > John Cartmell wrote: > > > > [snip] > > > > > > I'm happy to listen. What is wrong with the paragraph layout in > > > > Qercus? > > > > > > > > I found the asymmetric layout of columns to be very ugly. > > > I think there's too much whitespace around them - I'm always suspicious > > that a lack of material is being stretched to fit too big a space. > > Quite the opposite. It enables me to get more in without totally changing > the layout for every article. > A lovely example of being happy to listen :( [snip] -- Tony van der Hoff Buckinghamshire England -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:06:57 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKuX2-0000i8-At-0000jV."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:06:57 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKuX2-0000i8-At; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:44:33 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKuX2-0000i8-At; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:44:32 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKuX2-0006wN-3d; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:44:32 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKuX0-0005wD-2Z; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:44:30 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3B8iGt23532 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:44:16 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3B8iFa23528 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:44:15 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKuWl-0009oO-A7 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 08:44:15 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:42:07 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d59d76f60john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article , Tony van der Hoff wrote: > John Cartmell wrote in message > <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> > > In article <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, Jeremy C B Nicoll > > wrote: > > > In article <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk>, Ian Lowry > > > wrote: > > > > In message <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> John Cartmell > > > > wrote: > > > > > > [snip] > > > > > > > > > I'm happy to listen. What is wrong with the paragraph layout in > > > > > Qercus? > > > > > > > > > > > I found the asymmetric layout of columns to be very ugly. > > > > > I think there's too much whitespace around them - I'm always > > > suspicious that a lack of material is being stretched to fit too big > > > a space. > > > > Quite the opposite. It enables me to get more in without totally > > changing the layout for every article. > > > A lovely example of being happy to listen :( Don't assume that. I'm listening! I'm not adding white space to stretch material - and if it looks like I am then I need to do something about it. One of the reasons that I changed the font that Mike used was that it was too light (would be even lighter under the new printing provcess that we were required to move to) and gave the impression of too much white. Whilst it's easy to 'know' that a layout is wrong it's much harder to put it right. If only... -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:07:00 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKxmE-00046l-NV-00047n."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:07:00 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKxmE-00046l-NV; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:12:27 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKxmE-00046l-NV; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:12:26 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKxmE-0003TJ-3R; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:12:26 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKxmA-0006vp-6b; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:12:22 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3BCBmS04438 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:11:48 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3BCBl804434 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:11:47 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKxlZ-00051J-8c for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:11:47 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:10:03 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d59ea78dfJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d5971cb60john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d596c0c70Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d5971cb60john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03h (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_SHORT_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <4d5971cb60john@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, John Cartmell wrote: > In article <4d596c0c70Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, Jeremy C B Nicoll > wrote: > > And why, (eg p29 of issue 274) is column one separated from column > > 2 by lots of white space, when columns 2 and 3 are more or less > > adjacent? > It's a 7 column base. The columns that you see are either 1 column > wide (eg captions), 2 columns wide (normal) or, occasionally, 3 > columns wide. Using the normal 2-column width (ie 2/7 page width > after margins and gutters) means that each page has a 1/7 column in > which to expand illustrations, place captions, or include > 'highlights'. I can see that that might work in a wordy publication with only occasional exceptions to the standard layout, but I think it's a disaster here. Are you sure you're not trying to be too clever? [snip] > > Contrast this waste of space with the cramped layout of page 10 > > where essential details are too feint to be read easily and > > caption/ explanatory text under images almost needs a magnifying > > glass to be read. And you've wasted space (and certainly been > > inconsistent) with the "Fig 6 below" (etc) labels next to the > > orange bars (as well as one of those actually being for figure 7 > > not 6). And why did you use these orange-bar things just for figs > > 6 & 7, and not also for figs 8-13 on the same page? I'm sorry, but > > I think this page is just awful. > Page 10 suffers from not being able to afford to make every page in > Qercus full colour. We've improved a lot on Acorn User, and a bit on > Acorn Publisher, but we're still limited by having to make some pages > monochrome. In the sense that that meant you had to put all the coloured pics on one page? By trying to put them inline with surrounding text you've also isolated a tiny piece of text in a sea of pictures ("The new end points... see Fig 10.") and you've got a distracting set of figure captions which make it very unclear where the next bit of main text is. I think it would have been better just to place all the figures next to each other in an area across the top 2/3 of the page and run text across the bottom - or even to enlarge some of the figures a little and make the whole page just contain figures. I'd ditch the orange-bar figure markers completely if (a) you're tight for space, and (b) only some of the figures are going to have them. I think the text that's on that page could have been spread around the rest of the article easily, especially if some of the less useful text was excised (eg don't waste three lines saying what the r/g/b percentages of "pale yellow" are when it doesn't matter). Some of the author's text explaining that the Crystal module wasn't available and so he used something else isn't actually all that useful to the reader - it doesn't explain why Crystal would have been useful, nor what features in the other product were used instead (and how). So why is that text there at all? I often feel that I'm reading a student essay, padded to a certain word-count, rather than that you've strived to fit a complicated subject into a small space. > The captions with the coloured band are in the caption column whilst > those without are small boxes within the illustration space. It > didn't work as well as intended. But even if it had "worked well", it'd still have been incredibly inconsistent. > > And what happened to fig 5 on p8 - it's captioned but there's no > > picture. > It was there in the original, faint in the proofs, and disappeared in > the final version. Sorry. > [Snip] > > I also read Archive; when there's code there PB... > That's why I frequently box code and sometimes place it on the Yellow > Pages. I can't remember having seen a Yellow Page (but have just discovered there's one later in this edition). But that's not ideal either - if you have to turn to another part of the mag to see code samples that are being described where you are. -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:07:00 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DKyqH-00009S-8B-0000AG."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:07:00 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DKyqH-00009S-8B; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:20:42 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKyqH-00009S-8B; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:20:41 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DKyqH-0003rK-Bt; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:20:41 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DKyq2-0001eC-66; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:20:26 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3BDKEY27381 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:20:14 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3BDKDT27363 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:20:13 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DKypn-0007MI-Af for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:20:12 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:20:08 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d59f0e370john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d59ea78dfJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d596c0c70Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d5971cb60john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d59ea78dfJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <4d59ea78dfJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: [my comments on two observations] [Snip] > padded to a certain word-count, rather than that you've strived to fit a > complicated subject into a small space. Part of the problem is that I don't give strict word-counts to contributors. I deliberately allow articles to take up the room that I and the author think they need rather than force them into a fixed space. [Snip] > I can't remember having seen a Yellow Page (but have just discovered > there's one later in this edition). But that's not ideal either - if > you have to turn to another part of the mag to see code samples that are > being described where you are. Which is why I use wider columns, boxed areas or the yellow pages - whichever seems to be best in the circumstances. Anyone want to be guest editor for an issue? ;-) -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:07:01 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DL0Qj-00062Z-CE-00063K."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:07:01 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DL0Qj-00062Z-CE; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:02:26 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DL0Qj-00062Z-CE; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:02:25 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DL0Qj-0000Rr-I9; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:02:25 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DL0Qg-0002ZY-AA; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:02:22 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3BF1va13619 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:01:57 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (centipede.freedom2.net [213.161.67.201]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3BF1tq13587 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:01:56 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from [62.188.120.55] (helo=argonet.co.uk.) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1DL0IH-0000tx-4e for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:53:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Brian Bailey To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:00:10 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d59fa0bccbbailey@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article , David Pilling wrote: > > I think there's too much whitespace around them - I'm always suspicious > > that a lack of material is being stretched to fit too big a space. > Out of all the Acorn magazines over the years, many of them produced on > Ovation Pro (or Impression, and a few on Macs) do you have favourite > layouts? Who got it right? > I do recall issue #1 of Beebug magazine, and improvements in > software/hardware made things look better 20 years later. The same is > true if you get hold of an old copy of a newspaper and compare it with > todays. > Would better software give better results? No, I don't think so. I have a friend who uses, ahem, Serif Page Plus and produces beautiful, beautiful stuff in his small archaeological publishing house, for learned society transactions and coffee table books. But, then, he knows what he is doing, having been thoroughly and properly trained in an art college as a typesetter, and you can tell. The quality just leaps off the page. Really, really, professional. Mike Williams - Acorn Publisher is the only Acorn journal which comes anywhere near it, for me. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:07:02 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DL27b-0004g6-DI-0004gV."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:07:02 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DL27b-0004g6-DI; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:50:47 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DL27b-0004g6-DI; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:50:47 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DL27a-000133-Vz; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:50:47 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DL27C-0004QA-4Y; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:50:22 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3BGo2a27751 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:50:02 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (centipede.freedom2.net [213.161.67.201]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3BGo1127744 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:50:01 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from [62.188.154.102] (helo=argonet.co.uk.) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1DL1yr-0003jQ-Nr for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:41:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Brian Bailey To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:47:03 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d5a03d4b9bbailey@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d59fa0bccbbailey@argonet.co.uk> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d59fa0bccbbailey@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <4d59fa0bccbbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Bailey wrote: > In article , > David Pilling wrote: > > Out of all the Acorn magazines over the years, many of them produced > > on Ovation Pro (or Impression, and a few on Macs) do you have > > favourite layouts? Who got it right? > > Would better software give better results? > No, I don't think so. I have a friend who uses, ahem, Serif Page Plus > and produces beautiful, beautiful stuff in his small archaeological > publishing house, for learned society transactions and coffee table > books. But, then, he knows what he is doing, having been thoroughly and > properly trained in an art college as a typesetter, and you can tell. > The quality just leaps off the page. Really, really, professional. > Mike Williams - Acorn Publisher is the only Acorn journal which comes > anywhere near it, for me. I forgot, dare I mention, that some time ago Mike Glover showed BARUG a copy of, I think, the Journal of the British Mathematical Society, typeset with TechWriter, which was quite stunning. I really don't think that it's anything to do with shortcomings in the software being an issue now so much as a general lack of skill, expertise and experience. Near enough just isn't good enough! Compare with any book produced by the British Museum. Beautiful page layouts together with very, very careful choice of a single font. They seem to be fond of Sabon and I think Optima. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:07:04 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DL615-0004aa-LO-0004b8."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:07:04 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DL615-0004aa-LO; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:00:20 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DL615-0004aa-LO; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:00:19 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.31] (helo=smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DL615-0004di-F9; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:00:19 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DL60d-0002Er-Ey; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:59:51 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3BKxHp30806 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:59:17 +0100 Received: from smtp-e.bsve.net (smtp-e.bsve.net [62.69.65.168]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with SMTP id j3BKxFu30791 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:59:16 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: (qmail 8149 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2005 20:59:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?212.140.120.204?) (212.140.120.204) by 0 with SMTP; 11 Apr 2005 20:59:14 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.4.030702.0 Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:58:29 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles From: Mike Williams To: Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4d59fa0bccbbailey@argonet.co.uk> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On 11/4/05 4:00 pm, "Brian Bailey" wrote: > In article , > David Pilling wrote: > >>> I think there's too much whitespace around them - I'm always suspicious >>> that a lack of material is being stretched to fit too big a space. > > >> Out of all the Acorn magazines over the years, many of them produced on >> Ovation Pro (or Impression, and a few on Macs) do you have favourite >> layouts? Who got it right? > >> I do recall issue #1 of Beebug magazine, and improvements in >> software/hardware made things look better 20 years later. The same is >> true if you get hold of an old copy of a newspaper and compare it with >> todays. > >> Would better software give better results? > > No, I don't think so. I have a friend who uses, ahem, Serif Page Plus and > produces beautiful, beautiful stuff in his small archaeological publishing > house, for learned society transactions and coffee table books. But, then, > he knows what he is doing, having been thoroughly and properly trained in > an art college as a typesetter, and you can tell. The quality just leaps > off the page. Really, really, professional. > > Mike Williams - Acorn Publisher is the only Acorn journal which comes > anywhere near it, for me. > > Thanks for the compliment. Mike Williams Former publisher & editor of Acorn Publisher -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:07:05 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DLEXa-0003HB-OR-0003Hm."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:07:05 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DLEXa-0003HB-OR; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 06:06:27 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLEXa-0003HB-OR; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 06:06:26 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLEXa-0000XU-Dl; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 06:06:26 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DLEXQ-0003DV-KJ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:06:16 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3C65iD30663 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:05:44 +0100 Received: from desire.actrix.co.nz (desire.actrix.co.nz [203.96.16.164]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3C65gU30656 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:05:43 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from .actrix.gen.nz.actrix.co.nz (ak-d8.connections.net.nz [202.154.128.8]) by desire.actrix.co.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92CC115137 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:05:30 +1200 (NZST) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:07:42 +1200 From: David Love To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com> <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3d8891594d.zed@actrix.co.nz> <4d599a3c72john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d599a3c72john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/3.12 (MsgServe/3.00) (RISC-OS/4.02) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,DATE_IN_PAST_06_12,IN_REP_TO, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In message <4d599a3c72john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> John Cartmell wrote: > In article <3d8891594d.zed@actrix.co.nz>, David Love > wrote: > > In message <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> John Cartmell > > wrote: > > > > In article <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com>, michael talibard > > > wrote: > > > > In message <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > > > > I've subscribed to the magazine since the first issue of Acorn Publisher > > , Mike Williams had perfected the ideal lay out. Could never > > understand, although I've never questioned it, why you had to mess > > around with it. > I'd contest that it was 'the perfect layout' (I'd contest that such > things exist!) but in any case staying the same was never an option - > even if I'd wanted to do that. John! You did notice "and, in my opinion", didn't you? David -- David Love If you don't know where you're going, you'll end up somewhere else. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:07:06 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DLF3m-0006Kx-Dk-0006LW."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:07:06 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DLF3m-0006Kx-Dk; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 06:39:43 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLF3m-0006Kx-Dk; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 06:39:42 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLF3m-0003Mu-3M; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 06:39:42 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DLF3j-00008Q-Bi; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:39:39 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3C6dQW01881 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:39:26 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (centipede.freedom2.net [213.161.67.201]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3C6dQ301877 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:39:26 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from [62.188.131.129] (helo=argonet.co.uk.) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1DLEvW-0002nj-8T for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:31:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Brian Bailey To: Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:38:22 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d5a4ff10abbailey@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4d59fa0bccbbailey@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article , Mike Williams wrote: > >> Would better software give better results? > > > > No, I don't think so. I have a friend who uses, ahem, Serif Page Plus > > and produces beautiful, beautiful stuff in his small archaeological > > publishing house, for learned society transactions and coffee table > > books. But, then, he knows what he is doing, having been thoroughly > > and properly trained in an art college as a typesetter, and you can > > tell. The quality just leaps off the page. Really, really, > > professional. > > > > Mike Williams - Acorn Publisher is the only Acorn journal which comes > > anywhere near it, for me. > > > > > Thanks for the compliment. > Mike Williams Former publisher & editor of Acorn Publisher It's a real pleasure to say what I did. I looked forward to receiving and treasuring every copy. The Peter Newble articles were a particular bonus. If it isn't belabouring the point too much, good typesetting is all about quality, quality and quality, which can be achieved using quite modest software. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:07:07 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DLGHy-0004kc-NA-0004lR."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:07:07 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DLGHy-0004kc-NA; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:58:27 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLGHy-0004kc-NA; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:58:26 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.31] (helo=smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLGHy-0007Kg-0T; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:58:26 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DLGHu-0004mw-KO; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:58:22 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3C7w6302139 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:58:06 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.86]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3C7w5702132 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:58:05 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DLGHc-000Cyc-MU for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 07:58:05 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:56:20 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d5a57143ejohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com> <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3d8891594d.zed@actrix.co.nz> <4d599a3c72john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-7.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article , David Love wrote: > In message <4d599a3c72john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> John Cartmell > wrote: > > In article <3d8891594d.zed@actrix.co.nz>, David Love > > wrote: > > > In message <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> John Cartmell > > > wrote: > > > > > > In article <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com>, michael talibard > > > > wrote: > > > > > In message <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > > > > > > > I've subscribed to the magazine since the first issue of Acorn > > > Publisher , Mike Williams had perfected the ideal lay out. Could > > > never understand, although I've never questioned it, why you had to > > > mess around with it. > > I'd contest that it was 'the perfect layout' (I'd contest that such > > things exist!) but in any case staying the same was never an option - > > even if I'd wanted to do that. > John! You did notice "and, in my opinion", didn't you? Yes! Perfection still doesn't exist. ;-) In any case we're talking about an organic design where layout feeds on content that changes and reflects current reality. If I could have been good enough to produce the 'perfect' layout of MW it could not now be the same that it was three years ago. -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:07:09 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DLJTR-0000Vb-PX-0000WQ."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:07:09 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DLJTR-0000Vb-PX; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:22:30 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLJTR-0000Vb-PX; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:22:29 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLJTR-00033t-Oc; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:22:29 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DLJTP-0001x2-Du; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:22:27 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3CBM1710365 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:22:01 +0100 Received: from mta05-winn.mailhost.ntl.com (smtpout15.mailhost.ntl.com [212.250.162.15]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3CBM0k10344 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:22:00 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from aamta03-winn.mailhost.ntl.com ([212.250.162.8]) by mta05-winn.mailhost.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20050412112156.ISXZ18313.mta05-winn.mailhost.ntl.com@aamta03-winn.mailhost.ntl.com> for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:21:56 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([62.255.73.0]) by aamta03-winn.mailhost.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20050412112155.VMVD1279.aamta03-winn.mailhost.ntl.com@oemcomputer> for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:21:55 +0100 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20050412121930.00950220@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: neillmc@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:21:53 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: neillmc Subject: [softwarelist] Maximum font size on Windows In-Reply-To: <4d59ea78dfJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> References: <4d5971cb60john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d596c0c70Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d5971cb60john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1594031==_.ALT" Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_10,HTML_10_20,HTML_MESSAGE,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) --=====================_1594031==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Hi there, Is there a way to increase the font size beyond 36pt on Windows. I can do it on my Acorn version, but can't find out how to change the windows version. Regards, Neill McNeill --=====================_1594031==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Hi there,

        Is there a way to increase the font size beyond 36pt on Windows. I can do it on my Acorn version, but can't find out how to change the windows version.


Regards,

Neill McNeill --=====================_1594031==_.ALT-- -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:07:10 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DLKYw-0001Um-Cb-0001W8."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:07:10 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DLKYw-0001Um-Cb; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:32:15 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLKYw-0001Um-Cb; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:32:14 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLKYw-0003HI-Nq; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:32:14 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DLKR1-0001VS-Dr; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:24:03 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3CCNi906899 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:23:44 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3CCNhI06889 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:23:44 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from g1rcw.demon.co.uk ([83.104.136.204] helo=g1rcw) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DLKO8-000HMb-4q for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:21:05 +0000 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:23:22 +0100 From: John Chetwynd To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Maximum font size on Windows Message-ID: References: <4d5971cb60john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d596c0c70Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d5971cb60john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4.2.0.58.20050412121930.00950220@pop.ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20050412121930.00950220@pop.ntlworld.com> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/3.12 (MsgServe/3.00) (RISC-OS/5.08) POPstar/2.04-pre2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In message <4.2.0.58.20050412121930.00950220@pop.ntlworld.com> neillmc wrote: > Hi there, > > Is there a way to increase the font size beyond 36pt on Windows. I > can do it on my Acorn version, but can't find out how to change the windows > version. > Just run up Word and I can increase the font to 72pt just from the drop down menu selection in the toolbar. To make it larger I just typed in the size I wanted instead of using the drop down menu (900pt overflows the page!) Best regards -- John Chetwynd Iyonix PC, running RISC OS v5.08 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:07:11 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DLLiA-0003nY-By-0003ob."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:07:11 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DLLiA-0003nY-By; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:45:51 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLLiA-0003nY-By; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:45:50 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLLiA-0006lB-HC; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:45:50 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DLLi7-0008VO-Hm; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:45:47 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3CDjdt18807 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:45:39 +0100 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.176]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3CDjcL18789 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:45:38 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from [212.227.126.208] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1DLLNd-0003xa-00 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:24:37 +0200 Received: from [81.96.74.55] (helo=linux.at.home) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1DLLNd-0004S5-00 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:24:37 +0200 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:24:26 +0100 From: John Pettigrew To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Maximum font size on Windows Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20050412121930.00950220@pop.ntlworld.com> References: <4d5971cb60john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d596c0c70Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d5971cb60john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4.2.0.58.20050412121930.00950220@pop.ntlworld.com> Mail-Followup-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-Organization: XL Cambridge User-Agent: Gemini/2.13a (Qt/3.3.1) (Linux-i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="193612560--923077449--300256843"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:e57c3e1a4e3b0a42ebfd9b8d18fc39cc Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) --193612560--923077449--300256843 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a previous message, neillmc wrote: > Is there a way to increase the font size beyond 36pt on Windows. Just type whatever value you want into the font size box in the palette a= t the bottom of the window. Any chance of bump arrows on this box (and similar ones)? Makes it easier= to make repeated changes to get something to fit. John --=20 John Pettigrew Headstrong Games=20 john@headstrong-games.co.uk Fun : Strategy : Price=20 http://www.headstrong-games.co.uk/ Board games that won't break the ban= k=20 Valley of the Kings: ransack an ancient Egyptian tomb but beware of mummi= es!=20 --193612560--923077449--300256843 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBCW8wPp6M/P/S/JWgRArNkAJ0ZreltNjwDLdwYGMJvLSlOzK4AdgCdFszO ekiMqAG0wVFV2NH3L8FbjeE= =NDBY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --193612560--923077449--300256843-- -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 18:07:11 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DLLu6-0005lo-Bu-0005ml."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 18:07:11 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DLLu6-0005lo-Bu; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:58:11 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLLu6-0005lo-Bu; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:58:10 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLLu6-0004Oe-F6; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:58:10 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DLLu2-0006kS-FW; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:58:06 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3CDvpP29617 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:57:51 +0100 Received: from mta10-winn.mailhost.ntl.com (smtpout18.mailhost.ntl.com [212.250.162.18]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3CDvot29607 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:57:50 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from aamta07-winn.mailhost.ntl.com ([212.250.162.8]) by mta10-winn.mailhost.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20050412135746.FLNX12495.mta10-winn.mailhost.ntl.com@aamta07-winn.mailhost.ntl.com> for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:57:46 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([81.104.8.89]) by aamta07-winn.mailhost.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20050412135745.XUJK10174.aamta07-winn.mailhost.ntl.com@oemcomputer> for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:57:45 +0100 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20050412145702.009546d0@pop.ntlworld.com> X-Sender: neillmc@pop.ntlworld.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:57:42 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: neillmc Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Maximum font size on Windows In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.20050412121930.00950220@pop.ntlworld.com> <4d5971cb60john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d596c0c70Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d5971cb60john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4.2.0.58.20050412121930.00950220@pop.ntlworld.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_10944662==_.ALT" Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,HTML_10_20,HTML_MESSAGE, IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) --=====================_10944662==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 14:24 12/04/05 +0100, you wrote: >In a previous message, neillmc wrote: > > > Is there a way to increase the font size beyond 36pt on Windows. > >Just type whatever value you want into the font size box in the palette at the >bottom of the window. > >Any chance of bump arrows on this box (and similar ones)? Makes it easier to >make repeated changes to get something to fit. > >John >-- >John Pettigrew Headstrong Games >john@headstrong-games.co.uk Fun : Strategy : Price >http://www.headstrong-games.co.uk/ Board games that won't break the bank >Valley of the Kings: ransack an ancient Egyptian tomb but beware of mummies! > Thanks for the help. Obvious, really, wasn't it. Regards, Neill McNeill --=====================_10944662==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 14:24 12/04/05 +0100, you wrote:
In a previous message, neillmc <neillmc@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> Is there a way to increase the font size beyond 36pt on Windows.

Just type whatever value you want into the font size box in the palette at the
bottom of the window.

Any chance of bump arrows on this box (and similar ones)? Makes it easier to
make repeated changes to get something to fit.

John
--
John Pettigrew                       Headstrong Games
john@headstrong-games.co.uk          Fun : Strategy : Price
http://www.headstrong-games.co.uk/  Board games that won't break the bank
Valley of the Kings: ransack an ancient Egyptian tomb but beware of mummies!


Thanks for the help. Obvious, really, wasn't it.

Regards,

Neill McNeill

--=====================_10944662==_.ALT-- -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 20:46:40 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DLnhK-00009y-9J-0000Aa."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:46:40 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DLnhK-00009y-9J; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:38:51 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLnhK-00009y-9J; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:38:50 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLnhK-00075j-N7; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:38:50 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DLngr-0007sU-5W; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:38:21 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3DJbmP18125 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:37:48 +0100 Received: from roma.localnet (p5488FCC6.dip.t-dialin.net [84.136.252.198]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3DJblr18110 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:37:48 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from [192.168.0.100] (helo=iyonix) by roma.localnet with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1DLngI-0000wg-00 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:37:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Bellon To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:38:08 +0200 Subject: [softwarelist] Epson 2400 vs 2480? Message-ID: <4d5b1b2ab9sbellon@sbellon.de> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.08) POPstar/2.05 X-Request-PGP: http://www.sbellon.de/gpg.asc X-PGP-ID: 05360CB9 / 55DB 48FE BA59 7BA0 2B9D 4822 38C5 EC21 0536 0CB9 X-URL: http://www.sbellon.de/ Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,SIGNATURE_SHORT_SPARSE,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Just a quick question: Does the DPlngScan/TWAIN software work with the Epson 2480 as well or is this model too new and only the 2400 works? -- Stefan Bellon -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 21:06:41 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DLo6Z-00067k-Rq-00068A."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:06:41 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DLo6Z-00067k-Rq; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:04:56 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLo6Z-00067k-Rq; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:04:55 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLo6Z-0002pI-EH; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:04:55 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DLo6F-00027s-LD; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:04:35 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3DK4RO29480 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:04:27 +0100 Received: from mailout.zetnet.co.uk (mailout.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.231]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3DK4Rt29477 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:04:27 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from bts-0103.dialup.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.48.103] helo=zetnet.co.uk) by mailout.zetnet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1DLo66-0006Ph-00 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:04:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Michael M Martin To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:03:40 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Epson 2400 vs 2480? Message-ID: <4d5b1d8132mmartin@zetnet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d5b1b2ab9sbellon@sbellon.de> References: <4d5b1b2ab9sbellon@sbellon.de> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.04) POPstar/2.03 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <4d5b1b2ab9sbellon@sbellon.de>, Stefan Bellon wrote: > Just a quick question: Does the DPlngScan/TWAIN software work with the > Epson 2480 as well or is this model too new and only the 2400 works? I'm afraid it will not work what so ever on the Epson 2480 and it a lovely little scanner, I got one for my Lap top. Mick. -- |^^^^ Michael Martin ^^^^^ mmartin@zetnet.co.uk ^^^|Using Kinetic RiscPC| | * http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/mmartin/fifepits/ *| Email and News by | | ^^^ http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/mmartin/sign/ ^^^| !Pluto | |====== Risc OS immune to email Virus ======|===With RISC OS 4===| -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 22:36:46 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DLpOL-00063U-S6-00063w."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:36:46 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DLpOL-00063U-S6; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:27:22 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLpOL-00063U-S6; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:27:21 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLpOL-0003SD-Ii; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:27:21 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DLpNg-0003Sm-Hi; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:26:40 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3DLQQ528610 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:26:26 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3DLQPk28606 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:26:25 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DLpKr-000Elp-5h for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:23:45 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:25:02 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles References: <4d59fa0bccbbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4d5a4ff10abbailey@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d5a4ff10abbailey@argonet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,REFERENCES, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >From: An excellent and useful offering by Richard Hallas. One small point - why are all instances of lower case letter "L" in bold format. I am using Adobe Reader version 7.0 Is there any way to correct this? Ted Lacey -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 22:36:47 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DLpOU-0003tn-Lz-0003u7."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:36:47 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DLpOU-0003tn-Lz; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:27:31 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLpOU-0003tn-Lz; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:27:30 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLpOU-0001Jv-LG; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:27:30 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DLpOA-0003cA-Mm; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:27:10 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3DLR6I28978 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:27:06 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3DLR5928970 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:27:05 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DLpLW-000EqE-3z for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:24:26 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:25:36 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com> <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3d8891594d.zed@actrix.co.nz> <4d599a3c72john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d5a57143ejohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d5a57143ejohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >From: Richard Hallas In message <4d59f0e370john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> John Cartmell wrote: > Anyone want to be guest editor for an issue? ;-) You ought to be careful what you joke about, John. I might /easily/ rise to a challenge like that! ;-) -- Richard -=-=-=- Richard G. Hallas * Writer & Designer * Editor, Foundation RISC User Proprietor of KeyNote: Music Typesetting & General Desktop Publishing E-mail: Richard@hallas.demon.co.uk * Telephone/Facsimile: 01484 460280 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 22:36:48 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DLpPj-0003Sw-In-0003TH."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:36:48 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DLpPj-0003Sw-In; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:28:48 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLpPj-0003Sw-In; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:28:47 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.31] (helo=smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLpPj-0004Ii-L8; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:28:47 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DLpPS-0002o4-8k; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:28:30 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3DLSRm29773 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:28:27 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3DLSQ229769 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:28:26 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DLpMp-000EyX-3z for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:25:47 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:26:48 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <2b4416594d.Ian@lowrys.demon.co.uk> <4d591903d3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4d591f4b32john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4aae54594d.michael@talibard.com> In-Reply-To: <4aae54594d.michael@talibard.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >I'd say the software is certainly good enough. >It's how you use it. The sort of things I was thinking of (these examples are actually in the program at the moment) are lock to base line grid and enhanced justification. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 13 23:06:48 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DLptH-0005yy-FI-0005zG."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 23:06:48 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DLptH-0005yy-FI; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:59:20 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLptH-0005yy-FI; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:59:19 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLptH-0006Cc-JH; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:59:19 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DLpsu-0001ot-QV; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:58:56 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3DLwo013188 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:58:50 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3DLwnM13179 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:58:49 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DLpsm-0008Kq-9S for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:58:49 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:59:42 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d5b282098john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com> <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3d8891594d.zed@actrix.co.nz> <4d599a3c72john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d5a57143ejohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article , David Pilling wrote: > >From: Richard Hallas > In message <4d59f0e370john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> > John Cartmell wrote: > > Anyone want to be guest editor for an issue? ;-) > > You ought to be careful what you joke about, John. I might /easily/ rise > to a challenge like that! ;-) > I might just call that bluff! ;-) -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 14 14:50:16 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DLzwt-0007d1-Ks-0007fu."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:50:16 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DLzwt-0007d1-Ks; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 08:43:44 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLzwt-0007d1-Ks; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 08:43:43 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DLzwt-0006t3-Am; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 08:43:43 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DLzwq-0005Xs-Fn; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:43:40 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3E8hJa01168 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:43:19 +0100 Received: from outmail.freedom2surf.net (outmail1.freedom2surf.net [194.106.33.237]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3E8hJ801164 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:43:19 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from wallace (i-195-137-110-177.freedom2surf.net [195.137.110.177]) by outmail.freedom2surf.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3E8hIch013281 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:43:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Brian Carroll To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:38:18 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d5b6297ddbric@f2s.com> In-Reply-To: References: <4d59fa0bccbbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4d5a4ff10abbailey@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) POPstar/2.06-ds.2 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,REFERENCES, SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article , David Pilling wrote: > >From: > ... One small point - why are all instances of lower case > letter "L" in bold format. I am using Adobe Reader version > 7.0 Is there any way to correct this? I found the same - on screen; it changed as the screen scrolled and seemed to be an artefact on my LCD monitor. But when printed this is not the case. Brian. -- ______________________________________________________________ Brian Carroll, Ripon, North Yorkshire, UK bric at f2s dot com ______________________________________________________________ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 14 14:50:25 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DM2F7-0004vM-9O-0004w9."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:50:25 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DM2F7-0004vM-9O; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:10:42 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DM2F7-0004vM-9O; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:10:41 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DM2F7-0001fP-OK; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:10:41 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DM2F1-0005nY-KB; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 12:10:35 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3EBAFH09855 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 12:10:15 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (centipede.freedom2.net [213.161.67.201]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3EBAEE09851 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 12:10:15 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from [62.188.156.180] (helo=argonet.co.uk.) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1DM26c-0004hs-AL for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 12:01:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Brian Bailey To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:16:26 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d5b6b93d8bbailey@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d5a57143ejohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com> <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3d8891594d.zed@actrix.co.nz> <4d599a3c72john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d5a57143ejohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <4d5a57143ejohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, John Cartmell wrote: > > > > I've subscribed to the magazine since the first issue of Acorn > > > > Publisher , Mike Williams had perfected the ideal lay out. Could > > > > never understand, although I've never questioned it, why you had to > > > > mess around with it. > > > I'd contest that it was 'the perfect layout' (I'd contest that such > > > things exist!) but in any case staying the same was never an option - > > > even if I'd wanted to do that. > > John! You did notice "and, in my opinion", didn't you? > Yes! > Perfection still doesn't exist. ;-) > In any case we're talking about an organic design where layout feeds on > content that changes and reflects current reality. If I could have been > good enough to produce the 'perfect' layout of MW it could not now be the > same that it was three years ago. Well that really is the closest approximation to IT snake oil which I have seen so far. One wonders what many newspaper editors are doing 365 days of the year and, in some cases, producing very much more than acceptable typesetting. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 14 14:50:27 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DM3rj-0004uL-GP-0004vT."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:50:27 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DM3rj-0004uL-GP; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 12:54:40 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DM3rj-0004uL-GP; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 12:54:39 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DM3ri-00035C-Rw; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 12:54:39 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DM3rf-0005MU-BR; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:54:35 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3ECsMg21923 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:54:22 +0100 Received: from relay.freeuk.net (relay.freeuk.net [212.126.144.54]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3ECsMF21920 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:54:22 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from adsl-166-163.freeuk.com ([80.168.166.163] helo=Iyonix.hallas.demon.co.uk) by relay.freeuk.net with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DM3rR-0001E0-8J for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:54:21 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Re: DTP Principles To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: Richard Hallas X-Editor: EmailEdit 0.25 Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:23:29 +0100 Message-ID: <37396c5b4d.OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk> References: <4d59fa0bccbbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4d5a4ff10abbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4d5b6297ddbric@f2s.com> In-Reply-To: <4d5b6297ddbric@f2s.com> X-Organization: KeyNote Music Typesetting User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/3.13b13 (MsgServe/3.03) (RISC-OS/5.07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In message <4d5b6297ddbric@f2s.com> Brian Carroll wrote: >> ... One small point - why are all instances of lower case >> letter "L" in bold format. I am using Adobe Reader version >> 7.0 Is there any way to correct this? > > I found the same - on screen; it changed as the screen scrolled > and seemed to be an artefact on my LCD monitor. But when printed > this is not the case. This is just a holding answer... I'm well aware of the horrible on-screen appearance of this document in many applications, and regret it very much, but there are technical reasons why things are the way they are. Basically, it boils down to !PDF, which is what most users will probably use to view the document. !PDF has some major limitations, so, in order for this document to be viewable correctly in !PDF, it has had to be significantly degraded in visual quality. Having discussed the matter with someone who knows more about the technicalities of PostScript and PDF files than I do, there may possibly be a way of improving this document's quality slightly. Currently I'm awaiting an answer to a question before I decide exactly what to do about it. However, I hope soon to be able to announce a better-quality version of the PDF. Be warned, though, that it may need to be viewed in software other than !PDF. (The underlying problem is that !PDF isn't capable of displaying fonts that have been embedded in the document, and since display of the correct fonts is important for DTP Principles, that presents a major problem.) Anyway, watch this space. One way or another, I will soon be making one or more improved versions of the PDF available on my own Web space, and I'll announce the fact here when it happens. The Alligata-supplied version of the PDF is in any case less good than the version I submitted, because the quality of the colour pages has been greatly reduced to halve the size of the download. When I present the document on my own Web space, I'll supply the original high-quality version. In the meantime, the existing PDF is best viewed either in RiScript 5 (not yet released, but due soon) for RISC OS, or Apple Preview for anyone with a Mac. Both of those applications can make a much better job of displaying this file than can even the latest version of Adobe's own software! -- Richard -=-=-=- Richard G. Hallas * Writer & Designer * Editor, Foundation RISC User Proprietor of KeyNote: Music Typesetting & General Desktop Publishing Email: Richard@Hallas.net / Richard@riscos.com * Tel/Fax: 01484 460280 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 14 15:40:11 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DM5TL-00067G-M8-00067r."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:40:11 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DM5TL-00067G-M8; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:37:36 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DM5TL-00067G-M8; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:37:35 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DM5TL-0003mD-Ka; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:37:35 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DM5TE-0007Cn-Dm; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:37:28 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3EEbGh01981 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:37:16 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3EEbFa01977 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:37:15 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DM5Sq-0007jQ-7A for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:37:06 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:38:16 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d5b838c91john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d5b6b93d8bbailey@argonet.co.uk> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com> <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3d8891594d.zed@actrix.co.nz> <4d599a3c72john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d5a57143ejohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d5b6b93d8bbailey@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <4d5b6b93d8bbailey@argonet.co.uk>, Brian Bailey wrote: > One wonders what many newspaper editors are doing 365 days of the year > and, in some cases, producing very much more than acceptable typesetting. Clearly you are not referring to the Sale and Altrincham Messenger who have just tried to assure me that two spurious and adjacent commas were inserted to conform to 'house style'. ;-) Show me any that are managing with the same resources and I'll listen. Produce any positive suggestions and I'll listen. -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 14 16:00:12 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DM5j1-00057K-96-00057k."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:00:12 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DM5j1-00057K-96; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:53:48 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DM5j1-00057K-96; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:53:47 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DM5j1-000332-I4; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:53:47 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DM5iz-0002bS-7M; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:53:45 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3EErcD08525 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:53:38 +0100 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.189]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3EErb808502 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:53:37 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from [212.227.126.205] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1DM5gX-0005uS-01 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:51:13 +0200 Received: from [81.96.74.55] (helo=linux.at.home) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1DM5e7-00043Q-00 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:48:43 +0200 Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:48:42 +0100 From: John Pettigrew To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4d5b838c91john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> References: <4d59131dd4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3f514a594d.michael@talibard.com> <4d59630ed3john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <3d8891594d.zed@actrix.co.nz> <4d599a3c72john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d5a57143ejohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d5b6b93d8bbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4d5b838c91john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-Organization: XL Cambridge User-Agent: Gemini/2.13a (Qt/3.3.1) (Linux-i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="1910206667--2112724756--1627187286"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:e57c3e1a4e3b0a42ebfd9b8d18fc39cc Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) --1910206667--2112724756--1627187286 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a previous message, John Cartmell wrote: > 'house style' I've always found that to be a pretty good argument, myself, but they wer= e definitely onto a loser with that one! John --=20 John Pettigrew XL Cambridge - contract and freelance editing Biology specialist Molecular biology, genetics, biotechnology john@xl-cambridge.com http://www.xl-cambridge.com/ PGP public key available --1910206667--2112724756--1627187286 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBCXoLKp6M/P/S/JWgRAieSAKCWPQdYRhxhA19yP8t4K0SI50WuBgCgkUP8 dklEpVlxCHUVNKRh3+xgzpc= =fGPd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --1910206667--2112724756--1627187286-- -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 14 20:10:26 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DM9jL-00021l-7U-00022D."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:10:26 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DM9jL-00021l-7U; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:10:23 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DM9jL-00021l-7U; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:10:23 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DM9jL-00032q-3h; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:10:23 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DM9dM-0001d5-Gr; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:04:12 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3EJ3kY24070 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:03:46 +0100 Received: from outmail.freedom2surf.net (outmail1.freedom2surf.net [194.106.33.237]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3EJ3jG24064 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:03:45 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from wallace (i-195-137-110-177.freedom2surf.net [195.137.110.177]) by outmail.freedom2surf.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j3EJ3jch007268 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:03:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Brian Carroll To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:57:44 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: DTP Principles Message-ID: <4d5b9b4de2bric@f2s.com> In-Reply-To: <37396c5b4d.OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk> References: <4d59fa0bccbbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4d5a4ff10abbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4d5b6297ddbric@f2s.com> <37396c5b4d.OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.39) POPstar/2.06-ds.2 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <37396c5b4d.OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk>, Richard Hallas wrote: > In message <4d5b6297ddbric@f2s.com> > Brian Carroll wrote: > >> ... One small point - why are all instances of lower case > >> letter "L" in bold format. I am using Adobe Reader version > >> 7.0 Is there any way to correct this? > > > > I found the same - on screen; it changed as the screen > > scrolled and seemed to be an artefact on my LCD monitor. > > But when printed this is not the case. > This is just a holding answer... [snip] > In the meantime, the existing PDF is best viewed either in > RiScript 5 (not yet released, but due soon) for RISC OS, or > Apple Preview for anyone with a Mac. Both of those > applications can make a much better job of displaying this > file than can even the latest version of Adobe's own software! Interesting. RiScript v4.15 displays the file quite well here but rendering is dreadfully slow. This is why I nowadays usually view PDFs on my PC in Adobe Reader (now v7). Looking at a 400% magnified image in the latter one can clearly see that some but not all 'lowercase ells' are emboldened; no other vertical strokes show this effect. Anyway, as I much prefer to use a paper copy and the effect is not visible then, I am not complaining :-) I take this opportunity to thank you for letting us have this pamphlet. I had not seen it before and am finding it very interesting and useful. Brian. -- ______________________________________________________________ Brian Carroll, Ripon, North Yorkshire, UK bric at f2s dot com ______________________________________________________________ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 14 20:20:25 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DM9ka-0002mF-Qj-0002ml."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:20:25 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DM9ka-0002mF-Qj; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:11:41 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DM9ka-0002mF-Qj; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:11:40 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DM9ka-0005xi-4R; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:11:40 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DM9eC-0004L3-Se; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:05:04 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3EJ4gD24273 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:04:42 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3EJ4gR24269 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:04:42 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DM9dp-000LQP-Bu for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:04:41 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:03:28 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Epson 2400 vs 2480? References: <4d5b1b2ab9sbellon@sbellon.de> <4d5b1d8132mmartin@zetnet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d5b1d8132mmartin@zetnet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, >I'm afraid it will not work what so ever on the Epson 2480 and it a >lovely little scanner, I got one for my Lap top. Apparently not. The list of what works is on my web site: www.davidpilling.net/twain.html However I see I've missed off the latest one which works - the Epson 4990. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 14 20:20:25 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DM9q7-0001IY-Jh-0001Ix."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:20:25 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DM9q7-0001IY-Jh; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:17:23 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DM9q7-0001IY-Jh; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:17:23 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DM9q6-0001wr-UY; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:17:23 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DM9fk-0002o8-US; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:06:40 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3EJ6If24653 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:06:18 +0100 Received: from smtpq3.home.nl (smtpq3.home.nl [213.51.128.198]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3EJ6IF24649 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:06:18 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from [213.51.128.136] (port=44870 helo=smtp5.home.nl) by smtpq3.home.nl with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DM9fN-0007g3-Uo for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:06:17 +0200 Received: from cp418204-a.dbsch1.nb.home.nl ([84.27.250.27]:55025 helo=padua) by smtp5.home.nl with smtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DM9fM-0006r7-K0 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:06:16 +0200 Message-ID: <003d01c54125$1ad29190$6502a8c0@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: References: <4d59fa0bccbbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4d5a4ff10abbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4d5b6297ddbric@f2s.com> Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Re: DTP Principles Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:06:42 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-AtHome-MailScanner-Information: Neem contact op met support@home.nl voor meer informatie X-AtHome-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Thursday, April 14, 2005 10:38 AM , Brian Carroll wrote: > In article , David Pilling > wrote: >> >From: > > >> ... One small point - why are all instances of lower case >> letter "L" in bold format. I am using Adobe Reader version >> 7.0 Is there any way to correct this? > > I found the same - on screen; it changed as the screen scrolled > and seemed to be an artefact on my LCD monitor. But when printed > this is not the case. This is also the case on my CRT monitor - that is mainly the second lower case letter 'L', when there are two in a 'row'. In Acrobat 6 and Reader 7. Adobe isn't fond of 'Type3' and only since the last versions there is reasonable support. Type3 prints well - be it a bit bolder than Type1. Also on screen all chars/glyphs are a bit bolder, for Type3 also renders outlines of chars/glyphs. There are several PDF viewers in Windows, based on GhostScript. One of these is GSView, which is more than a viewer, but also a rather good .ps file convertor to .pdf and other formats for .ps files made on Windows. GSView also renders the DTP Principles PDF without a problem. Showing the layout and rendering of text as it should be seen ! Tonnie -- Mrs Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 14 23:20:32 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DMCcO-0003mA-Es-0003mQ."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:20:32 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DMCcO-0003mA-Es; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:15:25 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMCcO-0003mA-Es; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:15:24 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.31] (helo=smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMCcO-0005qj-EN; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:15:24 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DMCbt-0004Cm-G3; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:14:53 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3EMEZ913797 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:14:35 +0100 Received: from relay.freeuk.net (relay.freeuk.net [212.126.144.54]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3EMEYo13789 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:14:35 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from adsl-166-163.freeuk.com ([80.168.166.163] helo=Iyonix.hallas.demon.co.uk) by relay.freeuk.net with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DMCba-000Nex-7A for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:14:34 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Re: DTP Principles To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: Richard Hallas X-Editor: EmailEdit 0.25 Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:10:58 +0100 Message-ID: References: <4d59fa0bccbbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4d5a4ff10abbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4d5b6297ddbric@f2s.com> <37396c5b4d.OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk> <4d5b9b4de2bric@f2s.com> In-Reply-To: <4d5b9b4de2bric@f2s.com> X-Organization: KeyNote Music Typesetting User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/3.13b13 (MsgServe/3.03) (RISC-OS/5.07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In message <4d5b9b4de2bric@f2s.com> Brian Carroll wrote: >> In the meantime, the existing PDF is best viewed either in >> RiScript 5 (not yet released, but due soon) for RISC OS, or >> Apple Preview for anyone with a Mac. Both of those >> applications can make a much better job of displaying this >> file than can even the latest version of Adobe's own software! > > Interesting. RiScript v4.15 displays the file quite well here > but rendering is dreadfully slow. I didn't comment about RiScript 4 because I hadn't wanted to bother turning my Risc PC on! ;-) In other words, I haven't tested it. I can run RiScript 4 on the Iyonix under Aemulor, but it's a fair bit slower than the new 32-bit-friendly version 5, as well as being much less capable, so I haven't really tried the PDF with that version of the software. I'm reliably informed that there are excellent programs that can display DTP Principles well under Windows, too, but I don't use Windows myself so I can't comment on those. > This is why I nowadays usually > view PDFs on my PC in Adobe Reader (now v7). Looking at a 400% > magnified image in the latter one can clearly see that some but > not all 'lowercase ells' are emboldened; no other vertical > strokes show this effect. Anyway, as I much prefer to use a > paper copy and the effect is not visible then, I am not > complaining :-) That's just a display problem with Adobe Reader, though. There are better packages for viewing PDFs on all three platforms, surprisingly enough. You'd expect Adobe to make the best job of rendering its own file format, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Anyway, when I release the new PDF that I have in hoodwink, the display problems should hopefully go away, even in Acrobat. (Unless you're using !PDF, in which case things will probably get much worse!) > I take this opportunity to thank you for letting us have this > pamphlet. I had not seen it before and am finding it very > interesting and useful. Thank you. It's a great pleasure to hear that someone is finding it useful. (Though by rights it's Alligata who should be thanked for making it available for free. I was happy to cooperate by creating the PDF, of course, but it was their decision to make it freely available rather than continuing to sell it as such.) For completeness, I suppose I ought to say the following: 1. If you want a proper printed copy, they're still available from Alligata Media (there's a clickable email address on the back cover of the guide if you want to make an enquiry!), and they're trivially cheap to buy. Probably 2 quid, or maybe 5 with a bonus CD or something. I don't make anything out of these sales, so I can say with complete honesty... these booklets are *really* nicely produced. Obviously, what you see on the page is the same as what you see in the PDF, but the quality of the paper and the printing itself is really top-notch. I was very pleased indeed with the quality of these guides when I first saw them. Having said that, there are a few minor differences between the original booklet and the PDF. There's one unfortunate printing error in the booklet (figure 2 on page 9 went wrong, so there are just empty boxes in the two places where "Convention '96" should appear), there's a new addition in the PDF (the box about fonts on page 17), and a few very minor typos were corrected in the PDF version. But to all intents and purposes they're the same, so if you want a printed copy, it's much better to get the original than to try printing it yourself. Home printers can't compete with the version you can buy very inexpensively. 2. There's actually a version in HTML format, too! I serialised it over issues 13 to 16 of Foundation RISC User, with the whole lot appearing in issue 16, and of course also on the complete DVD edition (which non-members of the Foundation can buy). Certain aspects of the layout suffer slightly though the conversion to HTML (to a greater or lesser extent depending on the capabilities of the brower used to view it), but the HTML version is pretty good for on-screen reading. The articles originally appeared as a series in volume 12 of RISC User (1999), though I made various changes and improvements when adapting them for publication as DTP Principles. (So these articles have certainly done the rounds... I try not to repeat myself quite so often in general!) -- Richard -=-=-=- Richard G. Hallas * Writer & Designer * Editor, Foundation RISC User Proprietor of KeyNote: Music Typesetting & General Desktop Publishing Email: Richard@Hallas.net / Richard@riscos.com * Tel/Fax: 01484 460280 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 14 23:40:32 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DMCzj-0001i9-9h-0001ia."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:40:32 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DMCzj-0001i9-9h; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:39:31 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMCzj-0001i9-9h; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:39:31 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMCzi-0002L9-R6; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:39:30 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DMCzf-0001GA-9C; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:39:27 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3EMdI718949 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:39:18 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3EMdHV18946 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:39:17 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DMCwu-000OhX-5k for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:36:37 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:38:17 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Re: DTP Principles References: <4d59fa0bccbbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4d5a4ff10abbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4d5b6297ddbric@f2s.com> <37396c5b4d.OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk> <4d5b9b4de2bric@f2s.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >The articles originally appeared as a series in volume 12 of RISC User >(1999), though I made various changes and improvements when adapting And those articles (thank you) are on the OP CD in the form of OP documents. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 15 00:40:36 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DMDw6-00056O-KS-00056x."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 00:40:36 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DMDw6-00056O-KS; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:39:51 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMDw6-00056O-KS; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:39:50 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMDw5-0004t1-Al; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:39:50 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DMDw0-0000c3-Oy; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 00:39:44 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3ENdVZ28192 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 00:39:31 +0100 Received: from relay.freeuk.net (relay.freeuk.net [212.126.144.54]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3ENdUf28189 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 00:39:30 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from adsl-166-163.freeuk.com ([80.168.166.163] helo=Iyonix.hallas.demon.co.uk) by relay.freeuk.net with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DMDvm-0000eP-7G for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 00:39:30 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Re: DTP Principles To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: Richard Hallas X-Editor: EmailEdit 0.25 Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 00:39:14 +0100 Message-ID: References: <4d59fa0bccbbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4d5a4ff10abbailey@argonet.co.uk> <4d5b6297ddbric@f2s.com> <37396c5b4d.OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk> <4d5b9b4de2bric@f2s.com> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: KeyNote Music Typesetting User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/3.13b13 (MsgServe/3.03) (RISC-OS/5.07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In message David Pilling wrote: >>The articles originally appeared as a series in volume 12 of RISC User >>(1999), though I made various changes and improvements when adapting > > And those articles (thank you) are on the OP CD in the form of OP > documents. Oh yes, of course! I was forgetting it was those on the OP CD. I'd got it into my head that it was the ones about recreating RISC User with Ovation Pro that were on the CD. (But perhaps they're on there as well. My CD's packed away in a cupboard, and I can't remember for certain without checking.) Theoretically it might be nice to make the original Ovation Pro version of DTP Principles available in the same way. Unfortunately, though, it uses a variety of commercial fonts (from EFF, LOOKsystems/Monotype and Datafile/URW etc.) which couldn't be distributed, so the only practical format is PDF, really. -- Richard -=-=-=- Richard G. Hallas * Writer & Designer * Editor, Foundation RISC User Proprietor of KeyNote: Music Typesetting & General Desktop Publishing Email: Richard@Hallas.net / Richard@riscos.com * Tel/Fax: 01484 460280 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 15 13:43:55 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DMOc8-0004p3-IZ-0004q7."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:43:55 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DMOc8-0004p3-IZ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:03:57 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMOc8-0004p3-IZ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:03:56 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMOc8-0004LS-IF; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:03:56 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DMOc1-00087m-58; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:03:49 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3FB3I032507 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:03:18 +0100 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.171]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3FB3GJ32435 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:03:17 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from cpc3-cmbg4-5-0-cust55.cmbg.cable.ntl.com[81.96.74.55] (helo=linux.at.home) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKxQS-1DMObU0Nqb-0002Xq; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:03:16 +0200 Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:03:09 +0100 From: John Pettigrew To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: [softwarelist] More on OvnProWin and fonts in linux Message-ID: Mail-Followup-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-Organization: XL Cambridge User-Agent: Gemini/2.13a (Qt/3.3.1) (Linux-i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="1434973135--1379912683--111351511"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:e57c3e1a4e3b0a42ebfd9b8d18fc39cc Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) --1434973135--1379912683--111351511 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Since my last report, I've wanted to start using OvnPro to design a cours= e manual I need to write. However, the font problems I've already reported (using OvnProWin in linux using wine) have returned with a vengeance. The= re seems to be no pattern. In the current document, I cannot use Arial becau= se it is displayed as Courier New, despite it working when I was testing last t= ime. Worse, I can use Times New Roman but not the italic form - that, too, is displayed as Courier New. Sadly, this means that OvnPro isn't usable in linux ATM :-( Still, there's always hope! John --=20 John Pettigrew Headstrong Games=20 john@headstrong-games.co.uk Fun : Strategy : Price=20 http://www.headstrong-games.co.uk/ Board games that won't break the ban= k=20 Valley of the Kings: ransack an ancient Egyptian tomb but beware of mummi= es!=20 --1434973135--1379912683--111351511 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBCX59xp6M/P/S/JWgRAlc8AJ9Rq2aFveAlQfr86VGsQr3fMg46kgCfeB9e ZxuL8vgL7B+8+EWBOnQzsII= =U3AI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --1434973135--1379912683--111351511-- -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 15 23:14:10 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DMZ2p-00028e-8K-00029A."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:14:10 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DMZ2p-00028e-8K; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 22:12:12 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMZ2p-00028e-8K; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 22:12:11 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.31] (helo=smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMZ2p-0006mn-Cl; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 22:12:11 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DMZ2N-0003sk-P1; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:11:43 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3FMBLo25710 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:11:21 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3FMBKX25704 for ; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:11:20 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DMZ20-000K0Q-A5 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 15 Apr 2005 22:11:20 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:10:08 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] More on OvnProWin and fonts in linux References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >Since my last report, I've wanted to start using OvnPro to design a course >manual I need to write. However, the font problems I've already reported >(using OvnProWin in linux using wine) have returned with a vengeance. There >seems to be no pattern. In the current document, I cannot use Arial because it >is displayed as Courier New, despite it working when I was testing last time. >Worse, I can use Times New Roman but not the italic form - that, too, is >displayed as Courier New. I wonder under what circumstances Courier New appears? Real Windows is a bit odd about fonts. It has some font matching built in. The problem is that it will engage this at the slightest excuse. If you ask for Arial with anything other than the precise values that are present in the font on the machine (character set, weight), you get handed a (so called) similar font - even though Arial would be the sensible choice, Windows will produce some totally different font. In other words, you ask for Arial with a weight of 120, and the built in Arial Bold is weight 119, Windows doesn't say "oh well 119 is good enough" or decide to embolden it a bit, instead you end up with a computer emboldend version of another font. Just a guess, I wonder if you're testing with different font parameters (weight, size) to last time? Or did something else change? I'm seriously thinking of setting up Linux on another machine. The Winelib thing sounded good, when I looked into it, I found warnings about it not being possible to produce dll's on Linux. Problem is that applets and the main program are dynamic link libraries. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 16 19:33:02 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DMs4w-0004Gt-GS-0004HP."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:33:02 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DMs4w-0004Gt-GS; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 18:31:39 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMs4w-0004Gt-GS; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 18:31:38 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMs4v-0006uz-Tm; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 18:31:38 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DMs4e-000370-Hq; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:31:20 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3GIUt907976 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:30:55 +0100 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.176]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3GIUsN07973 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:30:55 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from [212.227.126.161] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1DMs4E-0007Ye-00 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:30:54 +0200 Received: from [81.96.74.55] (helo=linux.at.home) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1DMs4E-0006t8-00 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:30:54 +0200 Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:30:48 +0100 From: John Pettigrew To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] More on OvnProWin and fonts in linux Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Mail-Followup-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-Organization: XL Cambridge User-Agent: Gemini/2.13a (Qt/3.3.1) (Linux-i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="6308109--1546489106--903414539"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:e57c3e1a4e3b0a42ebfd9b8d18fc39cc Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) --6308109--1546489106--903414539 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a previous message, David Pilling wrote: > Just a guess, I wonder if you're testing with different font parameters= > (weight, size) to last time? Or did something else change? Don't think so - I didn't change them from defaults in either case AFAIR.= > The Winelib thing sounded good, when I looked into it, I found warnings= > about it not being possible to produce dll's on Linux. Problem is that > applets and the main program are dynamic link libraries. Ah :-( Still, if we can get it to work under some version of wine (once the Wind= ows version is out the door, of course!), that would do :-) John --=20 John Pettigrew Headstrong Games=20 john@headstrong-games.co.uk Fun : Strategy : Price=20 http://www.headstrong-games.co.uk/ Board games that won't break the ban= k=20 Valley of the Kings: ransack an ancient Egyptian tomb but beware of mummi= es!=20 --6308109--1546489106--903414539 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBCYVnbp6M/P/S/JWgRApGgAKCAx3gydF/McukASBqHLB0QGjGExwCfe47U aHkVrX95Pd2+sLcr3qKI2aU= =aAES -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --6308109--1546489106--903414539-- -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 16 20:13:05 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DMsh6-0001Gt-8Y-0001Hk."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:13:05 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DMsh6-0001Gt-8Y; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:11:05 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMsh6-0001Gt-8Y; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:11:04 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMsh6-0000dS-GQ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:11:04 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DMsgr-0000Y5-E6; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:10:49 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3GJAdj16977 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:10:39 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.86]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3GJAdr16974 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:10:39 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DMsgg-0000JL-Ly for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:10:38 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:09:11 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] More on OvnProWin and fonts in linux References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> Just a guess, I wonder if you're testing with different font parameters >> (weight, size) to last time? Or did something else change? >Don't think so - I didn't change them from defaults in either case AFAIR. The refrain of tech. support down the ages "something must have changed" Incidentally I have decided the Windows version is now finished (more about that anon), so I'm looking for a new challenge. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 16 20:33:04 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DMsvH-00010Z-E5-00010q."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:33:04 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DMsvH-00010Z-E5; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:25:43 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMsvH-00010Z-E5; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:25:43 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMsvH-0004lH-4X; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:25:43 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DMsvF-0004ZH-6d; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:25:41 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3GJPVC19470 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:25:31 +0100 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.171]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3GJPUI19465 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:25:30 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from cpc3-cmbg4-5-0-cust55.cmbg.cable.ntl.com[81.96.74.55] (helo=linux.at.home) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de with ESMTP (Nemesis), id 0MKwtQ-1DMsv418NK-00038V; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:25:30 +0200 Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:25:28 +0100 From: John Pettigrew To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] More on OvnProWin and fonts in linux Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Mail-Followup-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-Organization: XL Cambridge User-Agent: Gemini/2.13a (Qt/3.3.1) (Linux-i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="1505647804--722622974--1083643069"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de login:e57c3e1a4e3b0a42ebfd9b8d18fc39cc Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) --1505647804--722622974--1083643069 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a previous message, David Pilling wrote: > > > Just a guess, I wonder if you're testing with different font parame= ters > > > (weight, size) to last time? Or did something else change? > > Don't think so - I didn't change them from defaults in either case AF= AIR. >=20 > The refrain of tech. support down the ages "something must have changed= " :-) Indeed. I'll have another poke around when I've a chance. > Incidentally I have decided the Windows version is now finished (more a= bout > that anon), so I'm looking for a new challenge. :-D John --=20 John Pettigrew Headstrong Games=20 john@headstrong-games.co.uk Fun : Strategy : Price=20 http://www.headstrong-games.co.uk/ Board games that won't break the ban= k=20 Fields of Valour: 2 Norse clans battle on one of 3 different boards --1505647804--722622974--1083643069 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBCYWapp6M/P/S/JWgRAlPmAJ4uMQ9oI8UB32p8VpSTWwpoZTuH0QCeI6ot tyj3NLjfQu5LEIe3M+Yk75A= =UXMq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --1505647804--722622974--1083643069-- -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 16 20:53:06 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DMtF4-00026L-FT-00027k."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:53:06 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DMtF4-00026L-FT; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:46:12 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMtF4-00026L-FT; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:46:10 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMtF4-0005ok-KN; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:46:10 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DMtEo-000338-Bx; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:45:54 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3GJjQL22737 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:45:26 +0100 Received: from relay.freeuk.net (relay.freeuk.net [212.126.144.54]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3GJjPq22734 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:45:26 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from adsl-166-61.freeuk.com ([80.168.166.61] helo=Iyonix.hallas.demon.co.uk) by relay.freeuk.net with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DMtEL-000Atp-7P for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:45:25 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] More on OvnProWin and fonts in linux To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: Richard Hallas X-Editor: EmailEdit 0.25 Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:45:11 +0100 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Organization: KeyNote Music Typesetting User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/3.13b13 (MsgServe/3.03) (RISC-OS/5.07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In message David Pilling wrote: > Incidentally I have decided the Windows version is now finished (more > about that anon), so I'm looking for a new challenge. A version for Mac OS X next then, please. ;-) -- Richard -=-=-=- Richard G. Hallas * Writer & Designer * Editor, Foundation RISC User Proprietor of KeyNote: Music Typesetting & General Desktop Publishing Email: Richard@Hallas.net / Richard@riscos.com * Tel/Fax: 01484 460280 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 16 21:13:06 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DMtXk-0003Nn-HJ-0003P6."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:13:06 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DMtXk-0003Nn-HJ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:05:30 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMtXk-0003Nn-HJ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:05:28 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMtXk-0005YT-5l; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:05:28 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DMtXi-0000Vw-1N; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:05:26 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3GK5Dg25486 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:05:13 +0100 Received: from smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.5]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3GK5Dg25482 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:05:13 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from Iyonix ([82.34.56.52]) by smtp-out2.blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:05:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John M Ward To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:04:50 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: More on OvnProWin and fonts in linux Message-ID: <4d5ca91e49john@acornusers.org> In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/5.08) POPstar/2.05 Content-Type: text/plain X-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Apr 2005 20:05:52.0255 (UTC) FILETIME=[B0D038F0:01C542BF] Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article , Richard Hallas wrote: > In message > David Pilling wrote: > > Incidentally I have decided the Windows version is now finished > > (more about that anon), so I'm looking for a new challenge. > A version for Mac OS X next then, please. ;-) Actually, a RISC OS version of the Word importer/exporter for OPro was mentioned some time ago as a possible future project. It would be easier to do than David P having to learn yet another OS and programming methodology, study the concept of resource & data forks, and finding a way to work with a one-button mouse... -- John M Ward : RISC OS computing since 1987, now Iyonix-powered! Acorn/RISC OS web page: www.john-ward.org.uk/personal/john/computers -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 16 21:23:07 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DMthQ-0007Ef-E4-0007F6."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:23:07 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DMthQ-0007Ef-E4; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:15:29 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMthQ-0007Ef-E4; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:15:28 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.31] (helo=smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMthQ-0007nC-5t; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:15:28 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DMthO-00018O-HP; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:15:26 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3GKFKb27256 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:15:20 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3GKFKL27249 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:15:20 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DMthH-0008MR-Ch for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:15:20 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:16:39 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] More on OvnProWin and fonts in linux Message-ID: <4d5caa3380john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article , Richard Hallas wrote: > In message > David Pilling wrote: > > Incidentally I have decided the Windows version is now finished (more > > about that anon), so I'm looking for a new challenge. > A version for Mac OS X next then, please. ;-) Can we have the PostScript improvements for the RISC OS version first please! ;-) And a RISC OS program that will produce multi-level web-diagrams for inputting and sorting ideas prior to producing an Ovation document from those ideas; And a utility that will take multiple page-numbered Ovation documents and print reduced-size copies to show how they will be commercially printed; and ... .. I'll think about it. ;-) -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 16 21:43:08 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DMtyu-00077l-F4-00077x."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:43:08 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DMtyu-00077l-F4; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:33:33 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMtyu-00077l-F4; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:33:32 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMtyu-0002gd-H9; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:33:32 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DMtyb-0002mj-9w; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:33:13 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3GKX6H31153 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:33:06 +0100 Received: from relay.freeuk.net (relay.freeuk.net [212.126.144.54]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3GKX5i31148 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:33:05 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from adsl-166-61.freeuk.com ([80.168.166.61] helo=Iyonix.hallas.demon.co.uk) by relay.freeuk.net with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DMtyT-000C9r-7L for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:33:05 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Re: More on OvnProWin and fonts in linux To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: Richard Hallas X-Editor: EmailEdit 0.25 Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:32:15 +0100 Message-ID: <10a1ab5c4d.OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk> References: <4d5ca91e49john@acornusers.org> In-Reply-To: <4d5ca91e49john@acornusers.org> X-Organization: KeyNote Music Typesetting User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/3.13b13 (MsgServe/3.03) (RISC-OS/5.07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In message <4d5ca91e49john@acornusers.org> John M Ward wrote: > In article , > Richard Hallas wrote: >> In message > >> David Pilling wrote: > >> > Incidentally I have decided the Windows version is now finished >> > (more about that anon), so I'm looking for a new challenge. > >> A version for Mac OS X next then, please. ;-) > > Actually, a RISC OS version of the Word importer/exporter for OPro was > mentioned some time ago as a possible future project. It would be > easier to do than David P having to learn yet another OS and > programming methodology, study the concept of resource & data forks, > and finding a way to work with a one-button mouse... In all fairness, my comment was really a tongue-in-cheek joke aimed at David, as this is a subject we've discussed in the past. It wasn't a serious comment on my part, as I know it's pretty unlikely to happen. That isn't to say that I wouldn't really like Ovation Pro on the Mac, though; I most definitely would. Ovation Pro may be (and is!) my favourite DTP package, and I'll continue to use it on RISC OS for the foreseeable future, but it isn't going to turn me into a Windows PC user. (I do have a PC, in fact, but it's almost never turned on.) By the way, your comments about Macs are out of date. Resource and data forks are primarily associated with 'classic' Mac OS (i.e. Mac OS 9 and earlier) and compatible applications - and Apple officially dropped support for classic Mac OS at least a couple of years ago. As for mouse buttons, multi-button mice are fully supported in OS X, and the buttons work much the same as under Windows if you plug one in (i.e. right-click produces a context menu and scroll wheels are supported). If you have only a single-button mouse, then you can achieve other clicks by using a keyboard modifier in conjunction with that one button, so it makes little difference from a programming point of view. It's pretty widely recognised these days that Mac OS X is the version of Unix with the nicest user interface. It just happens to have compatibility with the old Mac OS built in as well, but essentially it's a completely different OS. I'm no blind Mac advocate: I'm sure I'm far more aware of their shortcomings (in user interface design if nothing else) than most Mac users, and I'm as unconvinced as anyone by Apple's insistence on supply only a single-button mouse. However, in all fairness I must acknowledge that I very much like a lot of what Apple has been doing in recent times, and Mac OS X is easily the nicest OS available after RISC OS, now. Indeed, it actually has far more in common with RISC OS than does Windows, I'd say. End of off-topic ramble. -- Richard -=-=-=- Richard G. Hallas * Writer & Designer * Editor, Foundation RISC User Proprietor of KeyNote: Music Typesetting & General Desktop Publishing Email: Richard@Hallas.net / Richard@riscos.com * Tel/Fax: 01484 460280 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 16 22:23:10 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DMuh0-0000v2-SP-0000vR."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:23:10 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DMuh0-0000v2-SP; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:19:07 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMuh0-0000v2-SP; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:19:06 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMuh0-00041K-Lo; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:19:06 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DMugJ-0005qq-Ls; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:18:23 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3GLIDr07503 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:18:13 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3GLID407500 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:18:13 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DMug9-000Ebi-9k for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:18:13 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:16:35 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] More on OvnProWin and fonts in linux References: <4d5caa3380john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d5caa3380john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >Can we have the PostScript improvements for the RISC OS version first >please! ;-) Thinking out loud here a few weeks ago, I believe I came up with a killer snag - i.e. ArtWorks graphics could not be rendered. >And a utility that will take multiple page-numbered Ovation documents and >print reduced-size copies to show how they will be commercially printed; "book" support would be good. My own experience with the OP manual shows that is a shortcoming. I've got a half written RTF importer. That is likely to be finished in the near future. There is plenty more I will do with OPW. However a bit of variety would be good, so if anyone has a project for Windows (or Linux)... -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 16 22:23:11 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DMukB-0002TY-SA-0002Tt."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:23:11 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DMukB-0002TY-SA; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:22:24 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMukB-0002TY-SA; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:22:23 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMukB-0004cd-Im; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:22:23 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DMujt-0001X8-02; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:22:05 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3GLM1K08194 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:22:01 +0100 Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com (imo-m28.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.9]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3GLM1a08190 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:22:01 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from Eastwellm@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38.7.) id 3.2b.7145366a (16335) for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:21:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Message-ID: <2b.7145366a.2f92dbf0@aol.com> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:21:52 EDT Subject: Re: [softwarelist] More on OvnProWin and fonts in linux To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_2b.7145366a.2f92dbf0_boundary" X-Mailer: Thunderbird - Mac OS X sub 28 Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_10,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_BALANCE_HTML,MIME_LONG_LINE_QP,NO_REAL_NAME, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) --part1_2b.7145366a.2f92dbf0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A Mac OS X version of Ovation Pro would be superb! Then I could stop=20 struggling with InDesign..... Martin In a message dated 16/4/05 8:46:41 pm, OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk writes: > In message >=20 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 David Pilling wrote: >=20 > > Incidentally I have decided the Windows version is now finished (more > > about that anon), so I'm looking for a new challenge. >=20 > A version for Mac OS X next then, please. ;-) >=20 > -- > Richard > -=3D-=3D-=3D- > Richard G. Hallas=A0 * Writer & Designer *=A0 Editor, Foundation RISC User > Proprietor of KeyNote:=A0 Music Typesetting & General Desktop Publishing > Email: Richard@Hallas.net / Richard@riscos.com * Tel/Fax: 01484 460280 >=20 > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net > with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message >=20 > Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net >=20 >=20 --part1_2b.7145366a.2f92dbf0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A Mac OS X version of Ovation Pro would= be superb! Then I could stop struggling with InDesign.....

Martin

In a message dated 16/4/05 8:46:41 pm, OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk writes:=


In message <e5Sliw= AXLWYCFwyU@pilling.demon.co.uk>

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 David Pilling <opro@pilling.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Incidentally I have decided the Windows version is now finished (more > about that anon), so I'm looking for a new challenge.

A version for Mac OS X next then, please. ;-)

--
Richard
-=3D-=3D-=3D-
Richard G. Hallas=A0 * Writer & Designer *=A0 Editor, Foundation RISC Us= er
Proprietor of KeyNote:=A0 Music Typesetting & General Desktop Publishing=
Email: Richard@Hallas.net / Richard@riscos.com * Tel/Fax: 01484 460280

--
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 --part1_2b.7145366a.2f92dbf0_boundary-- -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 16 22:33:10 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DMuqk-0006co-G7-0006e2."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:33:10 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DMuqk-0006co-G7; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:29:12 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMuqk-0006co-G7; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:29:11 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMuqk-0005IM-Qz; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:29:10 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DMuqi-0008J1-KZ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:29:08 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3GLT1X09829 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:29:01 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3GLT0q09824 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:29:01 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from necpwa.demon.co.uk ([80.177.5.63] helo=[10.0.0.12]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DMunx-000NFe-66 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:26:17 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) In-Reply-To: <2b.7145366a.2f92dbf0@aol.com> References: <2b.7145366a.2f92dbf0@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Message-Id: <1c8fbdc375f958725708ec27efc7e285@necpwa.demon.co.uk> From: Tony Simons Subject: Re: [softwarelist] More on OvnProWin and fonts in linux Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:28:58 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.622) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by svr1.spellings.net id j3GLT1q09826 Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) A Mac OS X version would make day as well! It would save me a fortune on expensive Quark upgrades as well as make life so much easier. On 16 Apr 2005, at 22:21, Eastwellm@aol.com wrote: > A Mac OS X version of Ovation Pro would be superb! Then I could stop > struggling with InDesign..... > > Martin > > In a message dated 16/4/05 8:46:41 pm, OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk > writes: > > >> In message >> >>          David Pilling wrote: >> >> > Incidentally I have decided the Windows version is now finished >> (more >> > about that anon), so I'm looking for a new challenge. >> >> A version for Mac OS X next then, please. ;-) >> Tony Simons York www.necpwa.org.uk The box said Windows 98 or better so I bought a Mac -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 16 22:43:11 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DMuw3-0007Oy-4y-0007PR."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:43:11 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DMuw3-0007Oy-4y; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:34:40 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMuw3-0007Oy-4y; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:34:39 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMuw3-000731-CT; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:34:39 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DMuvy-0001V2-S7; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:34:34 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3GLYQR11195 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:34:26 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3GLYPp11192 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:34:25 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DMuvp-0005BD-1B for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:34:25 +0000 Message-ID: <4X4MJCD9RYYCFwV2@pilling.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:32:45 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] More on OvnProWin and fonts in linux References: <2b.7145366a.2f92dbf0@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <2b.7145366a.2f92dbf0@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >A Mac OS X version of Ovation Pro would be superb! Then I could stop >struggling with InDesign..... A lot of people have asked about a Mac version. The problem is that it would be substantial effort - it has taken three years to produce a Windows version. A Mac version would probably take less effort (given the work done for Windows) but you're still probably talking about a year or two. I'd want someone to come along with a business proposition, e.g. a Mac publisher who could say how many copies they were going to sell and at what price. I do admit that with hindsight, a move to the Mac when Acorn suggested it (1995) would have been a better idea than moving to Windows in 2001. There seems to be a thriving market for Mac software developers today. It all looked a bit darker a few years back. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 16 23:53:14 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DMw8B-0001MI-Ij-0001Mm."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 23:53:14 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DMw8B-0001MI-Ij; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:51:17 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMw8B-0001MI-Ij; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:51:15 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMw8B-0004ig-KB; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:51:15 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DMw89-0000Ky-2M; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 23:51:13 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3GMosB23395 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 23:50:54 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3GMorE23392 for ; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 23:50:53 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DMw7p-0001KY-AW for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:50:53 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 23:52:11 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Styles extension OR find & replace selection Message-ID: <4d5cb870d2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Picking up a problem that has been voiced recently on another thread I wonder if it's possible to extend the versatility of the Ovation Pro Styles or, if not, whether there is a work-around that I haven't thought of. The problem: I need to include program listings within ordinary text. When I do the listings are wrapped to the next line at an appropriate space. I don't want that and need them to be wrapped splitting exactly at the end of the line mid-word. Part solution: Make all the spaces hard-spaces - but this is prone to error and may escape into ordinary text if not done with care. In any case it's time consuming. Full solution: As I apply a style to the listings to change the font and the tabs would it be possible to have an additional style option that, in effect, does "treat all spaces as hard spaces"? OR Whilst I have the text selected to change the style is it possible to press a button that will change all selected spaces to hard spaces? OR Is there another solution? -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sun Apr 17 02:33:23 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DMycp-0002R5-5O-0002Tl."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 02:33:23 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DMycp-0002R5-5O; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 01:31:04 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMycp-0002R5-5O; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 01:31:03 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DMycp-0001XF-GR; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 01:31:03 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DMycg-0008NG-5F; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 02:30:54 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3H1Ue124133 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 02:30:40 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3H1Udg24129 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 02:30:39 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DMycP-000Jc1-6o for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 01:30:37 +0000 Message-ID: <4l8sF7EuvbYCFwmw@pilling.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 02:29:18 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Styles extension OR find & replace selection References: <4d5cb870d2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d5cb870d2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >I need to include program listings within ordinary text. When I do the >listings are wrapped to the next line at an appropriate space. I don't want >that and need them to be wrapped splitting exactly at the end of the line >mid-word. There is a style parameter "word wrap" that is not available from the dialogue boxes. So you save trivial doc as DDL, edit style definition e.g. STYLE_10={style "code" {keypress ""} {wordwrap 0} {scope 1} } where {wordwrap 0} has been added. then reload. This gives you your special style and you can copy it from the simple doc you used to create it, to others. >Whilst I have the text selected to change the style is it possible to press >a button that will change all selected spaces to hard spaces? You could probably do this using scripts, something a bit like the fluff applet but it would probably fit in a macro definition. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sun Apr 17 14:20:14 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DN771-0005jY-6t-0005k1."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:20:14 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DN771-0005jY-6t; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 10:34:47 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DN771-0005jY-6t; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 10:34:47 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DN770-0000Yd-Vr; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 10:34:47 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DN76x-0003h1-KQ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 11:34:43 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3HAYKE15239 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 11:34:20 +0100 Received: from blaster.systems.pipex.net (blaster.systems.pipex.net [62.241.163.7]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3HAYKc15236 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 11:34:20 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from RiscPC (81-178-130-120.dsl.pipex.com [81.178.130.120]) by blaster.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD0FBE0000EB for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 11:34:19 +0100 (BST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 11:32:58 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Styles extension OR find & replace selection Message-ID: <4d5cf89960steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> In-Reply-To: <4d5cb870d2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> References: <4d5cb870d2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.05-a1 (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.04-pre2 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_SHORT_SPARSE, USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On 16 Apr, John Cartmell wrote: > Picking up a problem that has been voiced recently on another thread I > wonder if it's possible to extend the versatility of the Ovation Pro > Styles or, if not, whether there is a work-around that I haven't thought > of. Unless I missed something the "keep with" features buried in DDL aren't implemented. -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sun Apr 17 14:20:15 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DN9bS-0007LQ-L2-0007M1."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:20:15 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DN9bS-0007LQ-L2; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:14:23 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DN9bS-0007LQ-L2; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:14:22 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DN9bS-00027C-Bd; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:14:22 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DN9bN-0001qV-Bb; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:14:17 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3HDDhM27979 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:13:43 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3HDDgN27973 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:13:43 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DN9Y5-0005fo-IJ for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:10:53 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:16:16 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Styles extension OR find & replace selection Message-ID: <4d5d078c99john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d5cf89960steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> References: <4d5cb870d2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d5cf89960steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <4d5cf89960steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com>, Steven Pampling wrote: > On 16 Apr, John Cartmell wrote: > > Picking up a problem that has been voiced recently on another thread I > > wonder if it's possible to extend the versatility of the Ovation Pro > > Styles or, if not, whether there is a work-around that I haven't > > thought of. > Unless I missed something the "keep with" features buried in DDL aren't > implemented. I wasn't meaning 'keep with' (at all). Am I missing something or are you conflating two quite different threads? -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 20 16:46:24 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DN9l7-0002CT-N9-0002Cy."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:46:24 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DN9l7-0002CT-N9; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:24:22 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DN9l7-0002CT-N9; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:24:21 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DN9l7-0005P5-0U; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:24:21 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DN9l4-0004TT-TV; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:24:18 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3HDODS02410 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:24:13 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3HDODP02404 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:24:13 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DN9ky-0002zV-8b for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:24:13 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:22:38 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Styles extension OR find & replace selection References: <4d5cb870d2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d5cf89960steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> In-Reply-To: <4d5cf89960steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >Unless I missed something the "keep with" features buried in DDL aren't >implemented. Quite right. However they'd not help anyway - they would split on spaces. The extra feature I mentioned (wordwrap) is implemented. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 20 16:46:27 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DNB0m-0005L9-6K-0005Lf."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:46:27 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DNB0m-0005L9-6K; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:44:37 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DNB0m-0005L9-6K; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:44:36 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DNB0m-0006Ml-QC; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:44:36 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DNB0k-0006qb-8c; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:44:34 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3HEi1l16859 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:44:01 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3HEi0S16854 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:44:00 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([83.104.47.124]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DNAxT-000Dvn-GB for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:41:11 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:42:07 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Styles extension OR find & replace selection Message-ID: <4d5d0f68e4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4l8sF7EuvbYCFwmw@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <4d5cb870d2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4l8sF7EuvbYCFwmw@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <4l8sF7EuvbYCFwmw@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling wrote: > >I need to include program listings within ordinary text. When I do the > >listings are wrapped to the next line at an appropriate space. I don't want > >that and need them to be wrapped splitting exactly at the end of the line > >mid-word. > There is a style parameter "word wrap" that is not available from the > dialogue boxes. So you save trivial doc as DDL, edit style definition > e.g. > STYLE_10={style "code" > {keypress ""} > {wordwrap 0} > {scope 1} > } > where {wordwrap 0} has been added. > then reload. This gives you your special style and you can copy it from > the simple doc you used to create it, to others. Superb David. It's actually even easier than you've said - I've just saved the standard document as DDL, found {wordwrap 1} in the style in question, and amended it to {wordwrap 0}, then saved and run the DDL file and saved as the new document. Very many thanks! [Snip] -- John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 20 16:46:28 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DNBzm-0005bO-4B-0005bi."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:46:28 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DNBzm-0005bO-4B; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:47:38 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DNBzm-0005bO-4B; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:47:38 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DNBzm-0002sT-58; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:47:38 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DNBzj-0008EN-PM; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 16:47:35 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3HFl6E31970 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 16:47:06 +0100 Received: from smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net (smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net [212.135.6.14]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3HFl5Z31965 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 16:47:05 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from [82.111.116.154] (helo=nails.norbins) by smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 1DNBzE-00083k-00 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 16:47:05 +0100 Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 16:44:02 +0100 (BST) From: Jim Nagel Subject: [softwarelist] vocative comma To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net In-Reply-To: <4d5d0f68e4john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: speaking for myself X-Return-Rcpt-To: jim@abbeypress.net X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SIGNATURE_SHORT_SPARSE version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Sun 17 Apr, in thread "Styles extension OR find & r", we read: ... > Superb David. It's actually even easier than you've said ... Now we all, ladies and gentlemen, agree that in Mr Pilling we have a superb David. But this is probably not what the writer meant in this instance to convey. No, kind friends, the writer here was ADDRESSING the said David and failed to set off the name of his interlocutor, which he has inserted in the (short) sentence, with commas. (This solecism is lamentably common in these ungrammatical days.) cheers. -- jim -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 20 16:46:31 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DNEiJ-0001nb-3M-0001o6."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:46:31 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DNEiJ-0001nb-3M; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:41:47 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DNEiJ-0001nb-3M; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:41:47 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DNEiI-0001sI-P4; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:41:46 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DNEiF-0005iC-FO; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:41:43 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3HIfKK02956 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:41:20 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3HIfJf02952 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:41:19 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DNEhq-0002uc-Fu for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:41:19 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:23:18 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Styles extension OR find & replace selection Message-ID: <4d5d23a896Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d5cb870d2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> References: <4d5cb870d2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03h (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_SHORT_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <4d5cb870d2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, John Cartmell wrote: > OR > Is there another solution? Don't wrap the lines at all. ;-) -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 20 16:46:32 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DNFF3-00012s-E7-00013M."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:46:32 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DNFF3-00012s-E7; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:15:38 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DNFF3-00012s-E7; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:15:37 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DNFF3-0007Gz-86; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:15:37 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DNFEk-00077m-U1; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:15:18 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3HJF6A09655 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:15:06 +0100 Received: from blaster.systems.pipex.net (blaster.systems.pipex.net [62.241.163.7]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3HJF5m09651 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:15:05 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from RiscPC (81-178-130-120.dsl.pipex.com [81.178.130.120]) by blaster.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EBD0E000046 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:15:05 +0100 (BST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 15:31:27 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Styles extension OR find & replace selection Message-ID: <4d5d0e6ebdsteve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> In-Reply-To: <4d5d078c99john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> References: <4d5cb870d2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d5cf89960steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> <4d5d078c99john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.05-a1 (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.04-pre2 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,DATE_IN_PAST_03_06,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION, IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, SIGNATURE_SHORT_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On 17 Apr, John Cartmell wrote: > In article <4d5cf89960steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com>, Steven Pampling > wrote: > > On 16 Apr, John Cartmell wrote: > > > Picking up a problem that has been voiced recently on another thread > > > I wonder if it's possible to extend the versatility of the Ovation > > > Pro Styles or, if not, whether there is a work-around that I haven't > > > thought of. > > Unless I missed something the "keep with" features buried in DDL > > aren't implemented. > I wasn't meaning 'keep with' (at all). Am I missing something or are you > conflating two quite different threads? Possibly - I could have sworn the reply followed an item about possible new projects and interests for DP. -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 20 16:46:40 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DNI46-0005si-Gu-0005tC."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:46:40 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DNI46-0005si-Gu; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 22:16:31 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DNI46-0005si-Gu; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 22:16:30 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DNI46-0001RG-2z; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 22:16:30 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DNI15-0002PI-Aa; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 23:13:23 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3HMD2w05505 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 23:13:02 +0100 Received: from ghoul.scms.waikato.ac.nz (mail.scms.waikato.ac.nz [130.217.241.36]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3HMD0105496 for ; Sun, 17 Apr 2005 23:13:01 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from freja.cs.waikato.ac.nz ([130.217.248.25]) by ghoul.scms.waikato.ac.nz with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DNI0f-0006jI-Pf for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 10:12:57 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Keith Hopper To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 10:13:10 +1200 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Styles extension OR find & replace selection Message-ID: <4d5d38b424kh@waikato.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: <4d5cb870d2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> References: <4d5cb870d2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/5.08) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, Following on from John Cartmell who wrote: > Picking up a problem that has been voiced recently on another thread I > wonder if it's possible to extend the versatility of the Ovation Pro Styles > or, if not, whether there is a work-around that I haven't thought of. [snip] I have often wondered why our html->OPro converters do not use styles. I mean actually reading the relevant CSS style sheets - perhaps including having a 'default one' like a browser - and generate appropriate OvPro styles. Conversion the other way - from OvPro to html should then generate appropriate CSS style rules - in separate CSS documents - in the reverse process. I believe that there are libraries for reading/writing CSS available (I think the Netsurf developers use them) which should simplify the programming task. I would suggest also that, by using xhtml output when generating web documents, it should be possible to use existing xml serialiser libraries too. These enhanced converters would also go a long way to considering revision/replacement of the existing DDL with an xml-based notation - which in turn would open up several profitable (I hope) further avenues for development - eg taking an xml document raw and applying styling/images graphically/interactively - produceing a document for printing - or just transcribing to xhtml for display; something like a much smaller and more efficient/effective 'formatting object' handler. Just a few thoughts of a possible development path - the first of which should be relatively easy to accomplish with the aid of existing libraries I believe!?! Just my ha'porth! Keith -- City Desk Waikato University [PGP key available if desired] -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 20 16:46:54 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DNd1V-0005sk-KH-0005tO."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:46:54 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DNd1V-0005sk-KH; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:39:14 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DNd1V-0005sk-KH; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:39:13 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DNd1V-0001tS-4A; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:39:13 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DNd17-0005QQ-S6; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:38:49 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3IKc1v28193 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:38:01 +0100 Received: from mta08-winn.mailhost.ntl.com (smtpout16.mailhost.ntl.com [212.250.162.16]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3IKc0J28179 for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:38:00 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from aamta01-winn.mailhost.ntl.com ([212.250.162.8]) by mta08-winn.mailhost.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20050418203755.WANS3252.mta08-winn.mailhost.ntl.com@aamta01-winn.mailhost.ntl.com> for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:37:55 +0100 Received: from risco.home ([81.110.160.151]) by aamta01-winn.mailhost.ntl.com with SMTP id <20050418203755.LXXJ1187.aamta01-winn.mailhost.ntl.com@risco.home> for ; Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:37:55 +0100 Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 21:16:41 +0100 (BST) From: Anthony Hilton Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Styles extension OR find & replace selection To: Ovation Pro List In-Reply-To: <4d5cb870d2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-7.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In on Sat 16 Apr, John Cartmell wrote: > Picking up a problem that has been voiced recently on another thread I > wonder if it's possible to extend the versatility of the Ovation Pro Styles > or, if not, whether there is a work-around that I haven't thought of. > > The problem: > I need to include program listings within ordinary text. When I do the > listings are wrapped to the next line at an appropriate space. I don't want > that and need them to be wrapped splitting exactly at the end of the line > mid-word. > > Part solution: > Make all the spaces hard-spaces - but this is prone to error and may escape > into ordinary text if not done with care. In any case it's time consuming. > > Full solution: > > As I apply a style to the listings to change the font and the tabs would it > be possible to have an additional style option that, in effect, does "treat > all spaces as hard spaces"? > > OR > > Whilst I have the text selected to change the style is it possible to press > a button that will change all selected spaces to hard spaces? > > OR > > Is there another solution? Assuming the 'code' style is applied to the paragraph use the Replace with Effect applet to search for spaces within text using style 'code' and replace with hard spaces. This ensures the conversion stays within te code and doesn't spill out into body (or any other) text. But I think that the {wordwrap 0} option is better and avoids the need to use hard spaces. Anthony -- ajh@tinshill.f9.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 20 18:46:29 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DOJEj-0005Mu-Od-0005NX."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 18:46:29 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DOJEj-0005Mu-Od; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:43:42 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOJEj-0005Mu-Od; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:43:41 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOJEj-0004We-F0; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:43:41 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DOJEO-0002gh-H4; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 18:43:20 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3KHgXv24902 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 18:42:33 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3KHgVd24887 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 18:42:33 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DOJDY-000O6Y-BW for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:42:28 +0000 Message-ID: <6GYcNOD7QpZCFwts@pilling.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 18:41:15 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Styles extension OR find & replace selection References: <4d5cb870d2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d5cf89960steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> <4d5d078c99john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d5d0e6ebdsteve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> In-Reply-To: <4d5d0e6ebdsteve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >Possibly - I could have sworn the reply followed an item about possible >new projects and interests for DP. Sorry for misunderstanding. Filling in some of the things left undone is of course a possibility for future work on OPW. In that direction the problem is spotting what is the key thing that needs adding. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 20 19:56:33 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DOKG1-00075L-J8-00076f."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:56:33 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DOKG1-00075L-J8; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 18:49:06 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOKG1-00075L-J8; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 18:49:05 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOKG1-0003AC-P3; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 18:49:05 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DOKFk-0000z3-C7; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:48:48 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3KImbQ15923 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:48:37 +0100 Received: from blaster.systems.pipex.net (blaster.systems.pipex.net [62.241.163.7]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3KImZt15918 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:48:35 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from RiscPC (81-178-212-115.dsl.pipex.com [81.178.212.115]) by blaster.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75EB6E00018D for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:48:35 +0100 (BST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:44:57 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] "Missing" features in OvP Message-ID: <4d5eb12622steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> In-Reply-To: <6GYcNOD7QpZCFwts@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <4d5cb870d2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d5cf89960steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> <4d5d078c99john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d5d0e6ebdsteve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> <6GYcNOD7QpZCFwts@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.05-a1 (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.04-pre2 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_SHORT_SPARSE, USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On 20 Apr, David Pilling wrote: > >Possibly - I could have sworn the reply followed an item about possible > >new projects and interests for DP. > Sorry for misunderstanding. Filling in some of the things left undone is > of course a possibility for future work on OPW. > In that direction the problem is spotting what is the key thing that > needs adding. In respect of the "keep with" function specifically or which undone things to do first? Because if you massage the DDL and then load that into OvP you get a (somewhat unstable) version that (sometimes) does what is intended. I tried :-) -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 20 22:26:40 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DOMhX-0007Kt-HZ-0007LY."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:26:40 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DOMhX-0007Kt-HZ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 21:25:40 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOMhX-0007Kt-HZ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 21:25:39 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOMhX-0004Dj-95; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 21:25:39 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DOMhU-0001ku-Lg; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:25:36 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3KLPFt15945 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:25:15 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3KLPFn15926 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:25:15 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DOMeL-000COp-JG for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 21:22:22 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:23:42 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Styles extension OR find & replace selection References: <4d5cb870d2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d5d38b424kh@waikato.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: <4d5d38b424kh@waikato.ac.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) > I have often wondered why our html->OPro converters do not use styles. Me too. I think programs like Quark allow you to set up how e.g. HTML styles will map to their internal styles. That is how I would like to do it. Only problems I've not had time, and I'm not too sure just what to provide for XML. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 20 23:16:42 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DONRP-0006Pk-Pu-0006Rj."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:16:42 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DONRP-0006Pk-Pu; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:13:03 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DONRP-0006Pk-Pu; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:13:03 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DONRO-0000cV-SQ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:13:02 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DONRK-0004J2-NJ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:12:58 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3KMCpI00859 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:12:51 +0100 Received: from smarthost1.mail.uk.easynet.net (smarthost1.mail.uk.easynet.net [212.135.6.11]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3KMCom00854 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:12:50 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from [82.111.116.154] (helo=nails.norbins) by smarthost1.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 4.10) id 1DONRB-0000BS-00 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:12:49 +0100 Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:06:32 +0100 (BST) From: Jim Nagel Subject: [softwarelist] OPro and HTML To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: speaking for myself X-Return-Rcpt-To: jim@abbeypress.net X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_SHORT_SPARSE autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Wed 20 Apr, David Pilling wrote: > > I have often wondered why our html->OPro converters do not use styles. > > Me too. I think programs like Quark allow you to set up how e.g. HTML > styles will map to their internal styles. this brings up a question i've been wanting to ask: what is the state of play on exporting HTML from OPro for RiscOS? (and, for that matter, from OPro for Windows?) last i heard, Heyrick Murray was our man, but (unless i'm out of date) there hasnt been much activity in a while. -- jim -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Wed Apr 20 23:26:43 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DONd5-0000NJ-Ge-0000Nj."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:26:43 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DONd5-0000NJ-Ge; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:25:07 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DONd5-0000NJ-Ge; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:25:07 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DONd4-0000OY-WC; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:25:07 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DONcj-0007vy-VX; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:24:45 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3KMOcF02962 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:24:38 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3KMOcl02958 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:24:38 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DONZu-000CPo-3c for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Wed, 20 Apr 2005 22:21:50 +0000 Message-ID: <6DeMsrHjZtZCFwNl@pilling.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:23:31 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OPro and HTML References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >this brings up a question i've been wanting to ask: >what is the state of play on exporting HTML from OPro for RiscOS? >(and, for that matter, from OPro for Windows?) > >last i heard, Heyrick Murray was our man, but (unless i'm >out of date) there hasnt been much activity in a while. Same reply. ISTR he has made available an experimental version for Windows of the HTML importer. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 21 16:01:04 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DOd29-0006tp-GJ-0006vA."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:01:04 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DOd29-0006tp-GJ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:52:01 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOd29-0006tp-GJ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:52:01 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOd28-0002um-Pg; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:52:00 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DOczM-0006oj-8x; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:49:08 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3LElk131796 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:47:46 +0100 Received: from relay.freeuk.net (relay.freeuk.net [212.126.144.54]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3LElja31789 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:47:45 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from adsl-166-61.freeuk.com ([80.168.166.61] helo=Iyonix.hallas.demon.co.uk) by relay.freeuk.net with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DOcxz-0000np-9U for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:47:44 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] DTP Principles: new, improved PDFs now available To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: Richard Hallas X-Editor: EmailEdit 0.25 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:03:06 +0100 Message-ID: <3b2e1b5f4d.OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: KeyNote Music Typesetting User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/3.13b13 (MsgServe/3.03) (RISC-OS/5.07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) DTP Principles ============== Earlier this month, Alligata Media announced that my DTP Principles booklet on desktop publishing and typography had been made available (via the Cybervillage and subsequently Drobe) as a free download in PDF format. That version of the PDF was generated in a way that allowed it to be viewed as intended (i.e. with original body-text fonts etc.) in any PDF-viewing application, the most common of which for RISC OS is of course the freeware !PDF application. Unfortunately, because of certain serious limitations in the functionality of !PDF (most importantly, it is incapable of displaying embedded PostScript Type 1 fonts), the performance and display quality of the PDF file had to be seriously compromised, to my regret. Following positive reaction to the booklet itself, but well-justified negative reaction to its poor on-screen appearance and performance, I have decided to address the problem and reissue the PDF (with the agreement of Alligata Media) in an improved format that looks and works much better in most PDF viewers. However, because of the limitations of !PDF, I have been obliged to make a separate version for users of that application, though it too is significantly improved in comparison with the previous version. So there are in fact now two alternative versions of the PDF: a high-quality version for use in RiScript, Adobe Reader, Acrobat, Apple Preview and most other PDF viewers, and a low-quality alternative which has been optimised specifically for !PDF. Both versions can now be found on my Web space (and will be present on future editions of Foundation RISC User CD magazine). A covering page which houses both versions of the document can be found here: If you use !PDF, then please scroll down and find the less prominent link to the low-quality version; the main, graphically highlighted link on the page is to the regular high-quality version, and !PDF *cannot* display this version correctly. Other improvements ------------------ Both new versions of the PDF have had various minor improvements compared with the original PDF: 1. The large colour graphics pages have been increased in JPEG quality but decreased in resolution, so that they're now optimised for viewing on the screen rather than remaining at print resolution. 2. The figures on page 4, which previously caused problems for some viewing software, have been recreated so that they no longer cause problems and look much clearer at screen resolution. 3. The bookmarks are now differentiated in various text styles for viewers that support this feature (e.g. Acrobat itself). 4. Overall performance of the LQ version should now be massively improved in !PDF, and both versions will work slightly better in all PDF viewers. Please note ----------- The printed version can still be obtained very inexpensively from Alligata Media/APDL. See my Web page for further details. DTP Principles is still copyright material and should not be redistributed without the consent of Alligata Media and myself. I would like to express my thanks to Mrs Tonnie Demarteau for her assistance in creating the LQ version of the PDF. -- Richard -=-=-=- Richard G. Hallas * Writer & Designer * Editor, Foundation RISC User Proprietor of KeyNote: Music Typesetting & General Desktop Publishing Email: Richard@Hallas.net / Richard@riscos.com * Tel/Fax: 01484 460280 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 21 19:21:14 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DOg9Q-0001kv-C4-0001lc."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:21:14 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DOg9Q-0001kv-C4; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:11:45 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOg9Q-0001kv-C4; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:11:44 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOg9Q-0005vV-Eg; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:11:44 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DOg8v-0005oC-UA; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:11:13 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3LIAmp11335 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:10:48 +0100 Received: from mail-ps.sunrise.ch (mta-ps-be-06.sunrise.ch [194.158.229.42]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3LIAlf11330 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:10:47 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from localhost.com.smile.ch (194.230.9.215) by mail-ps.sunrise.ch (7.0.043) id 42534ED4000CA119 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:10:46 +0200 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:06:05 +0100 From: JMAH van Vredenburch To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Styles extension OR find & replace selection Message-ID: <59eb365f4d.janvred@smile.ch> References: <4d5cb870d2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d5cf89960steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> <4d5d078c99john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d5d0e6ebdsteve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> <6GYcNOD7QpZCFwts@pilling.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <6GYcNOD7QpZCFwts@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Secr. St. Van Vredenburch; CIC-member User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.71 (MsgServe/2.13) (RISC-OS/5.08) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In message <6GYcNOD7QpZCFwts@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > >Possibly - I could have sworn the reply followed an item about possible > >new projects and interests for DP. > > Sorry for misunderstanding. Filling in some of the things left undone is > of course a possibility for future work on OPW. > > In that direction the problem is spotting what is the key thing that > needs adding. > In order of priority: - an index generator - adding footnotes with the ease of use as seen in Easi/Techwriter. Maybe Mike Glover can give you some hints. Greetings, JohnvV -- Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 21 20:11:16 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DOgw4-0004CP-H7-0004Fh."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:11:16 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DOgw4-0004CP-H7; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:02:01 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOgw4-0004CP-H7; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:02:00 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOgw4-0001U9-3v; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:02:00 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DOgvS-000863-QD; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:01:22 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3LIxTw27338 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:59:29 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3LIxT327332 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:59:29 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DOgqu-0001uK-3u for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:56:40 +0000 Message-ID: <3gF$UFDMf$ZCFwut@pilling.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:58:20 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Styles extension OR find & replace selection References: <4d5cb870d2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d5cf89960steve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> <4d5d078c99john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> <4d5d0e6ebdsteve.pampling@dsl.pipex.com> <6GYcNOD7QpZCFwts@pilling.demon.co.uk> <59eb365f4d.janvred@smile.ch> In-Reply-To: <59eb365f4d.janvred@smile.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >> In that direction the problem is spotting what is the key thing that >> needs adding. >In order of priority: > > - an index generator > - adding footnotes As it happens I've just got IdxPro working on Windows. So if I add just those two features my market will be 1000 times bigger? -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Thu Apr 21 23:41:25 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DOkLY-0002d0-87-0002dS."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 23:41:25 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DOkLY-0002d0-87; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:40:33 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOkLY-0002d0-87; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:40:32 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOkLY-0002g0-8w; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:40:32 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DOkLV-0001At-1K; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 23:40:29 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3LMe8203977 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 23:40:08 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3LMe7u03973 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 23:40:07 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DOkL8-000KYi-9R for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:40:07 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 23:39:06 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Ovation Pro for Windows - finished? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, I've just uploaded the first "finished" version of Ovation Pro for Windows to my web site. http://pilling.users.netlink.co.uk/ovnproi.exe Most of the work on OPW this year has been concerned with "direct PostScript", this lets OPW generate PostScript instead of the Windows printer driver. There are all sorts of complexities in this. One epic concerned getting it to work with Adobe's PDF printer driver. There is now a new configuration window on the OPW printer choices window that lets you set up direct PS. Anyway with direct PS working, OPW can handle any document produced by OP on RISC OS - direct PS is needed to print masked sprites. In that sense the program is complete. I will now sort out the OPW CD etc. I guess, or fear, that direct PS will be of little interest. For most documents the Windows printer drivers do a perfectly good job. One other minor change will probably impact many more users. Someone pointed out that OPW did not use the standard Windows key presses for things like italic, bold etc. So I've changed them. This of course means changing all the documentation. The quickest way of seeing the new key presses is to look at the Reference card. http://davidpilling.info/ovationpro/docs/refcard.pdf -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 22 14:04:17 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DOtdU-0006gq-Kh-0006hH."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:04:17 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DOtdU-0006gq-Kh; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 08:35:41 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOtdU-0006gq-Kh; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 08:35:40 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOtdU-0002Uc-93; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 08:35:40 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DOtco-0006Ub-AB; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:34:58 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3M8Yc110878 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:34:38 +0100 Received: from ptb-relay02.plus.net (ptb-relay02.plus.net [212.159.14.213]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3M8YbL10866 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:34:37 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from [84.92.97.176] (helo=greatest) by ptb-relay02.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1DOtcS-000GT2-Qn for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 08:34:36 +0000 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:29:42 +0100 From: Tim Powys-Lybbe To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles: new, improved PDFs now available Message-ID: <317e805f4d.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> References: <3b2e1b5f4d.OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <3b2e1b5f4d.OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: South Farm, Calstone, Calne, Wilts, England (no house here!) User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/3.12 (MsgServe/3.00) (RISC-OS/5.08) POPstar/2.06-ds.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In message of 21 Apr, Richard Hallas wrote: > DTP Principles > ============== Delighted to see the update on this fine document. > So there are in fact now two alternative versions of the PDF: a > high-quality version for use in RiScript, I am using RiScript under Aemulor Pro on my Iyonix 5.08 and I get an "Unsupported encryption method" error when I drag the HQ version of the PDF file to RiScript. Anyone with different mileage? !PDF will open the HQ file, though bits are left out of the display of course, so it looks like the file is OK. -- Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 22 14:04:18 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DOuI4-0000C6-Bn-0000Ca."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:04:18 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DOuI4-0000C6-Bn; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:17:37 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOuI4-0000C6-Bn; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:17:36 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.31] (helo=smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOuI4-0005qx-AL; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:17:36 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DOuI2-0001ns-4Z; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:17:34 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3M9HLx30093 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:17:21 +0100 Received: from relay.freeuk.net (relay.freeuk.net [212.126.144.54]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3M9HLb30087 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:17:21 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from adsl-166-61.freeuk.com ([80.168.166.61] helo=Iyonix.hallas.demon.co.uk) by relay.freeuk.net with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DOuHo-00021v-8r for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:17:20 +0100 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:16:53 +0100 From: Richard Hallas To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles: new, improved PDFs now available Message-ID: <12d0845f4d.OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk> References: <3b2e1b5f4d.OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk> <317e805f4d.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <317e805f4d.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: KeyNote Music Typesetting User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/3.13b13 (MsgServe/3.03) (RISC-OS/5.07) X-Editor: Zap 1.46 (29 Nov 2004) fru-1, ZapEmail 0.27 (21 Mar 2003) test-6 (32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In message <317e805f4d.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: > In message of 21 Apr, Richard Hallas > wrote: > > > DTP Principles > > ============== > > Delighted to see the update on this fine document. :-) > > So there are in fact now two alternative versions of the PDF: a > > high-quality version for use in RiScript, > > I am using RiScript under Aemulor Pro on my Iyonix 5.08 and I get an > "Unsupported encryption method" error when I drag the HQ version of > the PDF file to RiScript. > > Anyone with different mileage? Blast! Sorry about that. I tested the new documents with all my different PDF viewers... except for RiScript 4, which I completely forgot about. Having a beta of RiScript 5 which runs fine, natively, on the Iyonix, I didn't remember to test the previous version under Aemulor. Having now done so, I can confirm the following: 1. RiScript 4 doesn't support 128-bit encryption (Acrobat 5), but only the previous Acrobat 3 level. I had set password protection to prevent anything other than viewing and printing the document (and if you use Acrobat 5-compatible encryption, you get a few more options). 2. RiScript 4 /also/ apparently suffers from the same kinds of problems as !PDF, in that it can't display embedded fonts (to my surprise). Bits of text vanish, just as they do in !PDF. > !PDF will open the HQ file, though bits are left out of the display > of course, so it looks like the file is OK. Yes, the files are both OK - this is a viewer software problem. (Don't try to use the HQ version with PDF; it won't look right at all, and the LQ one's specially optimised for this purpose!) I'm glad you've raised this issue. What I've done to correct it is to modify the LQ version of the document so that it uses Acrobat 3-level encryption. This allows RiScript 4 to open this version, and it displays it very nicely. I've left the HQ version unchanged because, having checked it in RiScript 4, it can't display it properly anyway (and issues a string of errors while trying to render it), so there'd be no advantage in making a change. Basically, you should ignore the HQ version of the document on RISC OS unless you happen to have RiScript 5. All these problems do underline the fact that RiScript 5 really is a big improvement over RiScript 4, in lots of subtle ways. I was rather disappointed with RiScript 4, to be honest, but I'm finding the new version 5 to be genuinely useful. The new LQ version is there now. I'll modify my descriptive page slightly in a minute or two... -- Richard -=-=-=- Richard G. Hallas * Writer & Designer * Editor, Foundation RISC User Proprietor of KeyNote: Music Typesetting & General Desktop Publishing Email: Richard@Hallas.net / Richard@riscos.com * Tel/Fax: 01484 460280 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 22 14:04:19 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DOusP-0006Wq-Lu-0006Zb."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:04:19 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DOusP-0006Wq-Lu; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:55:10 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOusP-0006Wq-Lu; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:55:09 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOusP-0003AF-Kn; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:55:09 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DOusK-0000Cf-1a; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:55:04 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3M9soA14078 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:54:50 +0100 Received: from ptb-relay01.plus.net (ptb-relay01.plus.net [212.159.14.212]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3M9sn414068 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:54:49 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from [84.92.97.176] (helo=greatest) by ptb-relay01.plus.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1DOus4-0000hz-TY for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:54:48 +0000 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:51:31 +0100 From: Tim Powys-Lybbe To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles: new, improved PDFs now available Message-ID: References: <3b2e1b5f4d.OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk> <317e805f4d.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <12d0845f4d.OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <12d0845f4d.OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: South Farm, Calstone, Calne, Wilts, England (no house here!) User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/3.12 (MsgServe/3.00) (RISC-OS/5.08) POPstar/2.06-ds.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In message of 22 Apr, Richard Hallas wrote: > Having a beta of RiScript 5 which runs fine, natively, on the Iyonix, Jealousy here, big turgevescent (sp?) green dollops of jealously. But the good news is that it looks like RiScript 5 is getting nearer publication and sale, a moment that I eagerly await. -- Tim Powys-Lybbe tim@powys.org For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 22 14:04:19 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DOvCn-0007Cb-GQ-0007DM."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:04:19 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DOvCn-0007Cb-GQ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:16:13 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOvCn-0007Cb-GQ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:16:13 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOvCm-0002xF-SC; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:16:12 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DOvCk-0000o6-Ua; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:16:10 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3MAG2b21015 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:16:02 +0100 Received: from smtp-out1.blueyonder.co.uk (smtp-out1.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.213.4]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3MAG1n21011 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:16:01 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from Iyonix ([82.34.56.52]) by smtp-out1.blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:16:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John M Ward To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:15:45 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Re: DTP Principles: new, improved PDFs now available Message-ID: <4d5f8a3403john@acornusers.org> In-Reply-To: References: <3b2e1b5f4d.OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk> <317e805f4d.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> <12d0845f4d.OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/5.08) POPstar/2.05 Content-Type: text/plain X-OriginalArrivalTime: 22 Apr 2005 10:16:39.0918 (UTC) FILETIME=[5FA830E0:01C54724] Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article , Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: > In message of 22 Apr, Richard Hallas > wrote: > > > Having a beta of RiScript 5 which runs fine, natively, on the > > Iyonix, > Jealousy here, big turgevescent (sp?) green dollops of jealously. > But the good news is that it looks like RiScript 5 is getting nearer > publication and sale, a moment that I eagerly await. Ah yes, as do I. I'll buy it -- something I didn't do before, mainly because of its uncertain future for a long time. In case the vendor is reading this: I hope it'll be possible to do entirely on-line. -- John M Ward : RISC OS computing since 1987, now Iyonix-powered! Acorn/RISC OS web page: www.john-ward.org.uk/personal/john/computers -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 22 14:04:20 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DOvcR-0005Fx-Kt-0005H0."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:04:20 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DOvcR-0005Fx-Kt; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:42:44 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOvcR-0005Fx-Kt; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:42:43 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DOvcR-00028A-9S; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:42:43 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DOvcN-0002ws-QL; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:42:39 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3MAgWe00439 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:42:32 +0100 Received: from relay.freeuk.net (relay.freeuk.net [212.126.144.54]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3MAgV900430 for ; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:42:31 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from adsl-165-219.freeuk.com ([80.168.165.219] helo=riscpc.denyswells.freeuk.com) by relay.freeuk.net with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1DOvcE-0004qC-8w for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:42:30 +0100 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:40:39 +0100 From: Denys Wells To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] DTP Principles: new, improved PDFs now available Message-ID: <757b8c5f4d.dmw@denyswells.freeuk.com> References: <3b2e1b5f4d.OvationPro@hallas.demon.co.uk> <317e805f4d.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <317e805f4d.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.62 (MsgServe/2.05) (RISC-OS/4.39) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In message <317e805f4d.tim@south-frm.demon.co.uk> Tim Powys-Lybbe wrote: > In message of 21 Apr, Richard Hallas wrote: > > > DTP Principles > > ============== > > Delighted to see the update on this fine document. > > > So there are in fact now two alternative versions of the PDF: a > > high-quality version for use in RiScript, > > I am using RiScript under Aemulor Pro on my Iyonix 5.08 and I get an > "Unsupported encryption method" error when I drag the HQ version of the > PDF file to RiScript. > > Anyone with different mileage? > > !PDF will open the HQ file, though bits are left out of the display of > course, so it looks like the file is OK. > My thanks as well for the upgraded versions. The original version was OK, with excellent on-screen rendering of the main text, in RiScript 4.15 on Kinetic RPC/Select 4.39, except for the 'Page4 problem' which locked the machine when this page was accessed: the new HQ version though does the same as reported by Tim Powys-Lybbe, ie does not open at all, with the same error message. The LQ version in !PDF is much better than before, and looks better still in !RiScript. It looks as though we must wait for !RiScript 5 before using the HQ version. ---- Denys Wells -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 23 20:06:14 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DPPuj-0002lO-3t-0002m4."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:06:14 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DPPuj-0002lO-3t; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 19:03:38 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DPPuj-0002lO-3t; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 19:03:37 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DPPuj-00071B-0s; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 19:03:37 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DPPuc-0000Rw-1S; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:03:30 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3NJ1Oh20325 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:01:24 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3NJ1Mq20314 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:01:23 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DPPpl-000Fzb-5K for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 18:58:29 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:00:07 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Ovation Pro for Windows - finished? References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_SHORT_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >From: charles hope >Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 20:33:44 +0100 > I guess, or fear, that direct PS will be of little interest. For most > documents the Windows printer drivers do a perfectly good job. I, for one would use this facility when producing pdf files to send to commercial printers. I agree not a lot of use for home printing. -- Using an Iyonix, running RISC OS5. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 23 21:50:32 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DPQdZ-0001yr-Dh-0001zX."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:50:32 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DPQdZ-0001yr-Dh; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 19:49:59 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DPQdZ-0001yr-Dh; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 19:49:57 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DPQdZ-00002M-0V; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 19:49:57 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DPQd0-00086b-RV; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:49:22 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3NJmY402887 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:48:34 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.86]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3NJmXQ02884 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:48:34 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from charleshope.demon.co.uk ([80.177.174.79] helo=bk21) by anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DPQcD-000B9r-Kk for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 19:48:33 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "charles.hope" To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:43:03 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] OvPro for Win - Printing Message-ID: <4d6041f9ffcharles.hope@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/4.39) POPstar/2.05 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.8 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Having bought the finished version yesterday, I took a document originated on my Iyonix and transferred it to my Windows XP machine to print - instead of using Uniprint. It prints perfectly well, but only one copy, despite my telling it I wanted 10 copies. I would also like it to print in background, as all my other Windows applications do. The facility to print directly to Acrobat Distiller is wonderful if producing pdfs for a commercial printer. Saves all that work with postscript printers and then RiScript in Risc OS. However on the file I used, a couple of small Draw files came out as Black/Grey blobs. PS how do I change my email address for this list? -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 23 22:17:04 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DPRbQ-0000w2-4A-0000wb."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 22:17:04 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DPRbQ-0000w2-4A; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:51:49 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DPRbQ-0000w2-4A; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:51:48 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DPRbQ-000162-3d; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:51:48 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DPRaz-0004UJ-5a; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:51:21 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3NKoTv20775 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:50:29 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3NKoSA20769 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:50:29 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DPRa8-00007q-EE for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:50:28 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:09:19 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Ovation Pro for Windows - finished? References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >I, for one would use this facility when producing pdf files to send to >commercial printers. I agree not a lot of use for home printing. Well direct PS is the only way to get screening in the PS file, also the only way to get CMYK colours in PS. A home user with documents containing masked sprites would find direct PS very useful. Graduated fills are another area where direct PS gives better results than the Windows printer drivers - as long as you're using PS level 3. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 23 22:17:05 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DPRh8-0000IZ-E1-0000Iu."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 22:17:05 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DPRh8-0000IZ-E1; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:57:42 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DPRh8-0000IZ-E1; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:57:42 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DPRh8-0004Nz-14; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:57:42 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DPRh6-00062E-UQ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:57:40 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3NKvF623718 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:57:15 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3NKvE923712 for ; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:57:14 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DPRdu-000LuY-4B for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:54:22 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:56:08 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OvPro for Win - Printing References: <4d6041f9ffcharles.hope@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d6041f9ffcharles.hope@argonet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Quite a bit here to talk about... >instead of using Uniprint. It prints perfectly well, but only one copy, >despite my telling it I wanted 10 copies. I would also like it to print >in background, as all my other Windows applications do. I don't understand both points, the number of copies should work, and I don't know that OPW prints any differently than any other Windows application. Unlike RISC OS, there is no concept of "background printing" or not on Windows. Can you explain further? e.g. which printer driver? are you using direct PS? What is it that makes you think OPW is not printing in the background? Where did you enter the number of copies? >postscript printers and then RiScript in Risc OS. However on the file I >used, a couple of small Draw files came out as Black/Grey blobs. Could I have a look at the Draw files, in situ, in a document? >PS how do I change my email address for this list? Unsubscribe by sending an email from the old address, subscribe by sending an email from the new address. What you actually email is appended to every posting to the list. Plan B, tell me your old and new addresses. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Tue Apr 26 17:07:01 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DPzuH-00009v-4m-0000Co."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 17:07:01 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DPzuH-00009v-4m; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:29:36 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DPzuH-00009v-4m; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:29:33 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DPzuG-0003nz-L4; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:29:32 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DPzuA-0004Ay-Cf; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:29:26 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3P9Suf21723 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:28:56 +0100 Received: from ranger.systems.pipex.net (ranger.systems.pipex.net [62.241.162.32]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3P9Stq21719 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:28:55 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from MARSDEN9.btinternet.com (81-86-166-106.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.166.106]) by ranger.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E571E00019F for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:28:54 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <6.0.3.0.2.20050425100644.01e4d408@mail.btinternet.com> X-Sender: phillip.marsden@mail.btinternet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.3.0 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:26:59 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: Phillip Marsden Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OvPro for Win - Printing In-Reply-To: <004e01c54921$30199ae0$a1fbe5d4@mypc> References: <004e01c54921$30199ae0$a1fbe5d4@mypc> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-52E62BC9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by svr1.spellings.net id j3P9Stq21720 Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) At 23:41 24/04/2005, David Pilling wrote: > >I was printing to a colour laser using the driver that works quite happily > >with other Window$ applications. > >[snip] >Hmm. of course that is not comparing like with like. There's something which >I discovered. Windows XP is very slow if you have a parallel port printer. > >[snip] >MS advice is to get a USB printer. In fact it is cheap enough to get a USB >to parallel adapter, I was faced with this problem and got a print server >(30 quid from Dabs) which puts the printer on the network. I have had one of these network printer boxes (from Intel, more than £30 unfortunately) for about 8 years. It has always worked flawlessly and fast via Windows, Linux or RISC OS, until I upgraded to XP. It then took several minutes to send the print job to the printer. Even though the other machines were printing jobs quickly. I originally set up the port type (listed under description) to be network, as on my Windows98 machine. I eventually found a site on the internet (lost the details) which advised setting up in the following manner: Port: \\printpro1\kyocera Description: Local port The system now sends the print job to the printer (more accurately the network box) immediately. Hope this is of assistance to somebody. -- Regards, Phillip Marsden. phillip.marsden@btinternet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.2 - Release Date: 21/04/2005 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Tue Apr 26 17:07:03 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DQ2E8-00002M-AT-00003D."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 17:07:03 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DQ2E8-00002M-AT; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:58:13 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DQ2E8-00002M-AT; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:58:12 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DQ2E8-0005Ld-13; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:58:12 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DQ2Dc-0005iu-3q; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:57:40 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3PBuxa26959 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:56:59 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3PBuw026956 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:56:58 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from charleshope.demon.co.uk ([80.177.174.79] helo=iyonix) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DQ2A4-000F8a-Hf for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:54:01 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: charles To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:57:48 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OvPro for Win - Printing Message-ID: <4d611f0d8acharles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20050425100644.01e4d408@mail.btinternet.com> References: <004e01c54921$30199ae0$a1fbe5d4@mypc> <6.0.3.0.2.20050425100644.01e4d408@mail.btinternet.com> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/5.08) POPstar/2.05 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <6.0.3.0.2.20050425100644.01e4d408@mail.btinternet.com>, Phillip Marsden wrote: > At 23:41 24/04/2005, David Pilling wrote: > > >I was printing to a colour laser using the driver that works quite > > >happily with other Window$ applications. [Snip] > Port: \\printpro1\kyocera Description: Local port > The system now sends the print job to the printer (more accurately the > network box) immediately. > Hope this is of assistance to somebody. Yes, it helps - seriously. Almost instant loss of hour-glass. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Tue Apr 26 17:07:11 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DQQBi-0004q4-3T-0004rU."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 17:07:11 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DQQBi-0004q4-3T; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:33:19 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DQQBi-0004q4-3T; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:33:18 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.31] (helo=smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DQQBh-0004FY-TN; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:33:17 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DQQB0-0001pI-7V; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 14:32:34 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3QDVCr28570 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 14:31:12 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3QDVB328565 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 14:31:11 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from charleshope.demon.co.uk ([80.177.174.79] helo=bk21) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DQQ9e-0006Ku-1u for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 13:31:10 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: charles hope To: Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:23:45 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OvPro for Win - Printing Message-ID: <4d6105f697charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <004e01c54921$30199ae0$a1fbe5d4@mypc> References: <004e01c54921$30199ae0$a1fbe5d4@mypc> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/4.39) POPstar/2.05 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,DATE_IN_PAST_24_48,IN_REP_TO, QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, SIGNATURE_SHORT_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <004e01c54921$30199ae0$a1fbe5d4@mypc>, David Pilling wrote: > >I was printing to a colour laser using the driver that works quite > >happily with other Window$ applications. > What I was trying to get at is exactly which printer driver you are > using, if I knew maybe I could get a copy and try it. However the main > thing is to discover if it is a PostScript printer. No. Printer is Epson EPL-C8000. Driver from Epson's web site. When I print via Uniprint from the Iyonix, Then multiple copies happen. > >> What is it that makes you think OPW is not printing in the background? > >Time taken to get back control - far, far, longer than in Risc OS. > Hmm. of course that is not comparing like with like. There's something > which I discovered. Windows XP is very slow if you have a parallel port > printer. Printing via a network. > Printing consists of two phases, rendering (in which the document is > converted to data the printer can understand) and spooling (were the > data is sent to the printer). During the spool phase XP seems to slow to > a crawl. [Snip] > In my experience the rendering phases (during which the OP "printing" > window with progress bar is open) is over in the blink of an eye. That's when I had the serious delay. -- Using an Iyonix, running RISC OS5. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Tue Apr 26 21:57:03 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DQX1r-0003zr-8p-00040J."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:57:03 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DQX1r-0003zr-8p; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:51:36 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DQX1r-0003zr-8p; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:51:35 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DQX1r-0002WS-IY; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:51:35 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DQWzz-0006X4-SI; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:49:39 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3QKiFb26327 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:44:15 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3QKiF726323 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:44:15 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DQWuk-000MPP-2j for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:44:15 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:42:34 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OvPro for Win - Printing References: <004e01c54921$30199ae0$a1fbe5d4@mypc> <6.0.3.0.2.20050425100644.01e4d408@mail.btinternet.com> In-Reply-To: <6.0.3.0.2.20050425100644.01e4d408@mail.btinternet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >The system now sends the print job to the printer (more accurately the >network box) immediately. Thanks for that. I would never have suggested that as a solution. However, I had a lot of trouble with my Dabs print server, following the instructions and using the defined port. Printer drivers would not remember their configuration - e.g. that the printer has a duplex unit. I eventually solved that by creating a new local port. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Tue Apr 26 21:57:04 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DQX3M-0005ug-Fd-0005v5."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:57:04 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DQX3M-0005ug-Fd; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:53:09 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DQX3M-0005ug-Fd; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:53:08 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DQX3M-0002hR-KI; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:53:08 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DQX2a-0001Pj-5p; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:52:20 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3QKnik27772 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:49:44 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.86]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3QKndK27719 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:49:44 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DQWzy-0005Gn-M0 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:49:38 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:48:13 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OvPro for Win - Printing References: <004e01c54921$30199ae0$a1fbe5d4@mypc> <4d6105f697charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d6105f697charles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >No. Printer is Epson EPL-C8000. Driver from Epson's web site. When I >print via Uniprint from the Iyonix, Then multiple copies happen. There are two ways of setting the number of copies. One is by using the Copies item on the OPW Print dialogue. The other, is to click "print setup" on that window, then click on Properties. This should open the standard Windows dialogue for your printer, and usually you can set the number of copies on it. So please try this. Multiple copies can be printed in two ways - one is you tell the printer, give me N copies of this document, the second you send the printer N copies of a document. The second way is of course more likely to work. You can usually force this second situation by selecting "collate". Anyway, Uniprint might use the second approach. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 29 13:48:41 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DRTSF-0005P7-BW-0005QM."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:48:41 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DRTSF-0005P7-BW; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:14:45 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRTSF-0005P7-BW; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:14:43 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRTSF-0001EV-C7; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:14:43 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRTRp-0007nT-56; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:14:17 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3TBCxf02098 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:12:59 +0100 Received: from smtpq1.home.nl (smtpq1.home.nl [213.51.128.196]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3TBCwm02093 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:12:59 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from [213.51.128.133] (port=59169 helo=smtp2.home.nl) by smtpq1.home.nl with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRTQY-00051Q-JO for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:12:58 +0200 Received: from cp418204-a.dbsch1.nb.home.nl ([84.27.250.27]:55207 helo=padua) by smtp2.home.nl with smtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRTQX-0001II-JR for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:12:57 +0200 Message-ID: <00eb01c54cac$7b0d9220$6502a8c0@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: References: <4d6041f9ffcharles.hope@argonet.co.uk> Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OvPro for Win - Printing Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:13:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-AtHome-MailScanner-Information: Neem contact op met support@home.nl voor meer informatie X-AtHome-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Saturday, April 23, 2005 9:43 PM , charles.hope wrote: ... > > The facility to print directly to Acrobat Distiller is wonderful if > producing pdfs for a commercial printer. It is 'always' wonderful, whenever you need a pdf. Of course, also the route to print-to-file (.ps file) can be taken and you can make a pdf from this .ps with different settings for different pdf files. That is different in quality, size and so on. The .ps can be used in many different pdf converters. Like GSView. Not only Acrobat. This print-to-file with .ps output also works using the Distiller driver in OPW. Also with Choices-->Direct PS-->Level3 ..., needed for the special things :-) > However on the > file I used, a couple of small Draw files came out as Black/Grey > blobs. I wonder, Draw files .... maybe containing masked sprites? I wonder, making a pdf *without setting Choices-->Direct PS-->Level3* ? Tonnie -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 29 13:48:42 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DRTzl-0005TX-Sv-0005UR."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:48:42 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DRTzl-0005TX-Sv; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:49:23 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRTzl-0005TX-Sv; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:49:22 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.31] (helo=smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRTzl-00022y-NI; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:49:21 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRTzB-000570-Kb; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:48:45 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3TBm9c17065 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:48:09 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3TBm8c17061 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:48:08 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from charleshope.demon.co.uk ([80.177.174.79] helo=iyonix) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DRTya-000Fv8-03 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 11:48:08 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: charles To: Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:49:50 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OvPro for Win - Printing Message-ID: <4d632dab0echarles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <00eb01c54cac$7b0d9220$6502a8c0@padua> References: <4d6041f9ffcharles.hope@argonet.co.uk> <00eb01c54cac$7b0d9220$6502a8c0@padua> User-Agent: Pluto/3.03j (RISC-OS/5.08) POPstar/2.05 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article <00eb01c54cac$7b0d9220$6502a8c0@padua>, Tonnie Demarteau wrote: > On Saturday, April 23, 2005 9:43 PM , > charles.hope wrote: [Snip] > > However on the > > file I used, a couple of small Draw files came out as Black/Grey > > blobs. > I wonder, Draw files .... maybe containing masked sprites? I have been told that they are "masked sprites" by DP today. How do I know they are masked sprites? What is a "masked sprite? I was sent them by someone with a MAC, originally as a .ps which RiScript turned into a drawfile. > I wonder, making a pdf *without setting Choices-->Direct PS-->Level3* ? Didn't know about this, but, yes, it solves that problem. Thank you. -- >From KT24 - in "leafy" Surrey Using a RISC OS5 computer -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 29 13:58:25 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DRV09-0007W7-CG-0007X3."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:58:25 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DRV09-0007W7-CG; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:53:50 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRV09-0007W7-CG; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:53:49 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRV09-0003Lm-HP; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:53:49 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRUzw-0000tH-Uo; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:53:36 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3TCrA319689 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:53:10 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3TCr9a19664 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:53:09 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DRUwZ-000Lrg-HQ for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 12:50:07 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:51:53 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OvPro for Win - Printing References: <4d6041f9ffcharles.hope@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4d6041f9ffcharles.hope@argonet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >postscript printers and then RiScript in Risc OS. However on the file I >used, a couple of small Draw files came out as Black/Grey blobs. You sent me the file, and I've had an expert examine it. The things that come out as blobs are masked sprites. As I've tried to stress, it is not possible to print masked images using a Windows PostScript printer driver (that includes the Adobe PDF driver) on its own. Masked images *can* be printed if you use the direct PostScript feature from Ovation Pro print choices. It is interesting that quite a lot of Windows software generates its own PostScript, bypassing the printer drivers - e.g. the Adobe PDF viewer, Corel Ventura. However these programs don't give the user a choice. Perhaps it would be better if I removed this choice and forced everyone to use direct PS... -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 29 14:18:26 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DRVFN-0003MN-ST-0003NH."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:18:26 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DRVFN-0003MN-ST; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:09:34 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRVFN-0003MN-ST; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:09:33 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRVFN-0003YV-LW; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:09:33 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRVFJ-00006e-9l; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:09:29 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3TD9LU28244 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:09:21 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3TD9LE28240 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:09:21 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DRVFA-0003n2-92 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:09:21 +0000 Message-ID: <6sZ8XWCpGjcCFwnl@pilling.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:07:53 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OvPro for Win - Printing References: <4d6041f9ffcharles.hope@argonet.co.uk> <00eb01c54cac$7b0d9220$6502a8c0@padua> In-Reply-To: <00eb01c54cac$7b0d9220$6502a8c0@padua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >I wonder, making a pdf *without setting Choices-->Direct PS-->Level3* ? Hang on, to get masked sprites to work, you have to turn on direct PS. You will get the best results if level 3 is selected - because level 3 PS has good support for masked images. But from the latest version it should be possible to print masked images at level 1 and level 2. Incidentally not all PDF printer drivers work via PostScript, I've got the Visage one installed and it uses Windows Enhanced Metafiles (.emf) as the intermediate language. Masked images are of course what causes all the grief with RISC OS PostScript output. So there is some interest in if OPW gives results that are anymore agreeable - at level 1 and 2, clearly level 3 is the proper solution. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 29 14:38:29 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DRVf0-0005gD-L1-0005h2."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:38:29 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DRVf0-0005gD-L1; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:36:03 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRVf0-0005gD-L1; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:36:02 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRVf0-0002WE-B4; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:36:02 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRVeP-0007LL-Eo; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:35:25 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3TDZJW07348 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:35:19 +0100 Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.184]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3TDZIN07344 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:35:18 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from [212.227.126.207] (helo=mrelayng.kundenserver.de) by moutng.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1DRVeI-0000nK-00 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:35:18 +0200 Received: from [81.96.74.55] (helo=linux.at.home) by mrelayng.kundenserver.de with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 1DRVeI-00061H-00 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:35:18 +0200 Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 14:35:16 +0100 From: John Pettigrew To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OvPro for Win - Printing Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <4d6041f9ffcharles.hope@argonet.co.uk> Mail-Followup-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-Organization: XL Cambridge User-Agent: Gemini/2.22 (Qt/3.3.1) (Linux-i686) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="833221481--674734571--438412404"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Provags-ID: kundenserver.de abuse@kundenserver.de auth:e57c3e1a4e3b0a42ebfd9b8d18fc39cc Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) --833221481--674734571--438412404 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a previous message, David Pilling wrote: > quite a lot of Windows software generates its own PostScript [snip]. Pe= rhaps > it would be better if I removed this choice and forced everyone to use > direct PS... Is there any reason *not* to do this? If your PS is better than the Windo= ws stuff (which I'm sure it is), then go with yours. I can see this ability coming back to bite you in the future in terms of support queries if you = leave it open. John --=20 John Pettigrew Headstrong Games=20 john@headstrong-games.co.uk Fun : Strategy : Price=20 http://www.headstrong-games.co.uk/ Board games that won't break the ban= k=20 Valley of the Kings: ransack an ancient Egyptian tomb but beware of mummi= es!=20 --833221481--674734571--438412404 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBCcjgVp6M/P/S/JWgRAuCLAJ9Wfml7NSYeAR+knYj7lvk8FaflEACgnVxT XTYdgv6PWBM6ZC5Ggv9RbHM= =nivJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --833221481--674734571--438412404-- -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 29 16:38:34 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DRXXy-0007k1-Pi-0007ks."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:38:34 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DRXXy-0007k1-Pi; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:36:55 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRXXy-0007k1-Pi; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:36:54 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRXXy-0002ij-Og; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:36:54 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRXXG-0002f0-Bw; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:36:10 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3TFZrw26666 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:35:53 +0100 Received: from smtpq1.home.nl (smtpq1.home.nl [213.51.128.196]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3TFZqp26657 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:35:52 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from [213.51.128.132] (port=46544 helo=smtp1.home.nl) by smtpq1.home.nl with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRXWy-0005Cl-4J for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:35:52 +0200 Received: from cp418204-a.dbsch1.nb.home.nl ([84.27.250.27]:55095 helo=padua) by smtp1.home.nl with smtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRXWw-0001hZ-3a for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:35:50 +0200 Message-ID: <002601c54cd1$34321360$6502a8c0@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: "Ovation Pro" References: <4d6041f9ffcharles.hope@argonet.co.uk> Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OvPro for Win - Printing Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:36:23 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-AtHome-MailScanner-Information: Neem contact op met support@home.nl voor meer informatie X-AtHome-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Friday, April 29, 2005 2:51 PM , David Pilling wrote: >> postscript printers and then RiScript in Risc OS. However on the >> file I used, a couple of small Draw files came out as Black/Grey >> blobs. > > You sent me the file, and I've had an expert examine it. The things > that come out as blobs are masked sprites. > > As I've tried to stress, it is not possible to print masked images > using a Windows PostScript printer driver (that includes the Adobe > PDF driver) on its own. Masked images *can* be printed if you use the > direct PostScript feature from Ovation Pro print choices. > The Direct PostScript feature offers choices: language level 1,2,3 download fonts as Type1 and Type3 Does it matter which level is used to get support for e.g. masked images? Or for graduated fills? I see that you have already explained this for masked images in another email in this thread. Thanks. Download fonts. I assume only those fonts are downloaded and hence embedded, which aren't substituted in the chosen printer's properties --> device settings. And then there is "Generic PostScript" (ignore printer features). What can be expected then? Language level and type of download fonts as configured or highest level (3) and Type1. I assume with 'ignore printer features' the font substitutes in the device setting of the printer is ignored. > It is interesting that quite a lot of Windows software generates its > own PostScript, bypassing the printer drivers - e.g. the Adobe PDF > viewer, Corel Ventura. However these programs don't give the user a > choice. Perhaps it would be better if I removed this choice and > forced everyone to use direct PS... Please don't. It would make several features impossible. Like download/embedding of TrueType fonts, a (in my case) nice graduated fill in level2, addition of Euro -as a device setting. To name a few. It also would mean an 'escape' -when the windows drivers work and direct PS doesn't. It can happen. Maybe setting 'Direct PostScript output' ON by default in Choices? This would mean, that the windows drivers still can be used ... after switching 'Direct PS' OFF. Tonnie -- Mrs Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 29 16:58:34 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DRXkO-0000RB-Rk-0000S3."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:58:34 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DRXkO-0000RB-Rk; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:49:45 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.211] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRXkO-0000RB-Rk; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:49:44 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRXkO-00047l-CZ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 15:49:44 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRXjv-0005im-2G; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:49:15 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3TFn8A31337 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:49:08 +0100 Received: from smtpq2.home.nl (smtpq2.home.nl [213.51.128.197]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3TFn7C31334 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 16:49:07 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from [213.51.128.133] (port=57350 helo=smtp2.home.nl) by smtpq2.home.nl with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRXjn-0008VA-9p for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:49:07 +0200 Received: from cp418204-a.dbsch1.nb.home.nl ([84.27.250.27]:55107 helo=padua) by smtp2.home.nl with smtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRXjl-0002W1-UA for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:49:05 +0200 Message-ID: <003201c54cd3$0e8bcaa0$6502a8c0@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: References: <4d6041f9ffcharles.hope@argonet.co.uk> <00eb01c54cac$7b0d9220$6502a8c0@padua> <4d632dab0echarles@charleshope.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OvPro for Win - Printing Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:49:38 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-AtHome-MailScanner-Information: Neem contact op met support@home.nl voor meer informatie X-AtHome-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Friday, April 29, 2005 1:49 PM , charles wrote: > In article <00eb01c54cac$7b0d9220$6502a8c0@padua>, > Tonnie Demarteau wrote: >> On Saturday, April 23, 2005 9:43 PM , >> charles.hope wrote: > > [Snip] > >>> However on the >>> file I used, a couple of small Draw files came out as Black/Grey >>> blobs. > >> I wonder, Draw files .... maybe containing masked sprites? > > I have been told that they are "masked sprites" by DP today. How do > I know they are masked sprites? What is a "masked sprite? I was > sent them by someone with a MAC, originally as a .ps which RiScript > turned into a drawfile. Take out the DrawFile of the OP doc. Open the DrawFile and save the sprite. Open the Sprite in Paint. Info tells you about Palette and Mask. When there is a mask - colour 'none'- you can see this on the palette as last 'colour' with horizontal stripes. You also see this (of course) in the sprite itself - normally as the background. When the sprite is used e.g. as a desktop icon, it only shows the shape which has 'colour' and it doesn't show 'the mask' - the 'transparant background fill' to fill the rectangle of the total surface of the sprite. How to solve it? By replacing the 'colour' mask with a real colour. In many cases the colour 'white'. The replacement can only be global. And switching 'mask' off in the menu in Paint for that particular sprite. When you save the sprite, you'll get a rectangle in the chosen colour as background fill. The filesize of the sprite has been reduced to half the original size. I know, this is a very simplified explanation/description. I hope it will do. Tonnie -- Mrs Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 29 20:18:44 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DRarj-0002rX-J6-0002sA."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:18:44 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DRarj-0002rX-J6; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:09:32 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.71] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRarj-0002rX-J6; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:09:31 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRarj-0005l9-Nt; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:09:31 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRare-0000RG-M2; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:09:26 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3TJ97h13166 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:09:07 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3TJ97c13162 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:09:07 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DRaoT-000Ncw-3E for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:06:09 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:07:46 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OvPro for Win - Printing References: <4d6041f9ffcharles.hope@argonet.co.uk> <002601c54cd1$34321360$6502a8c0@padua> In-Reply-To: <002601c54cd1$34321360$6502a8c0@padua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >Does it matter which level is used to get support for e.g. masked images? >Or for graduated fills? Both are much better in level 3. However your printer has to support level 3. >Download fonts. I assume only those fonts are downloaded and hence embedded, >which aren't substituted in the chosen printer's properties --> device >settings. Correct. The font substitution table which is part of Windows PS drivers is used for direct PS - regardless of the "generic" setting. It can be quite difficult to find, Printers and Faxes from the start menu, then right click and properties. You may recall that earlier versions of OPW had a PS section to the font manager, that has gone, and is replaced by the font substitution table in Windows. >Maybe setting 'Direct PostScript output' ON by default in Choices? >This would mean, that the windows drivers still can be used ... after Yes my inclination is to make direct PS on, be the default, but to improve things by reading the PS level from the printer - as well as allowing the level to be set to any desired value. This has been a useful discussion. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 29 20:48:47 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DRbSq-0005Y1-DG-0005YY."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:48:47 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DRbSq-0005Y1-DG; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:47:53 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRbSq-0005Y1-DG; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:47:52 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRbSp-0001B1-UI; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 19:47:52 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRbSL-00054h-P6; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:47:21 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3TJlCO20399 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:47:12 +0100 Received: from smtpq1.home.nl (smtpq1.home.nl [213.51.128.196]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3TJlA220394 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:47:11 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from [213.51.128.135] (port=57383 helo=smtp4.home.nl) by smtpq1.home.nl with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRbSA-0004ot-Ls for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:47:10 +0200 Received: from cp418204-a.dbsch1.nb.home.nl ([84.27.250.27]:55797 helo=padua) by smtp4.home.nl with smtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRbS9-0006Jn-G4 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:47:09 +0200 Message-ID: <004001c54cf4$4ff5fee0$6502a8c0@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: References: <4d6041f9ffcharles.hope@argonet.co.uk> <002601c54cd1$34321360$6502a8c0@padua> Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OvPro for Win - Printing Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:46:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-AtHome-MailScanner-Information: Neem contact op met support@home.nl voor meer informatie X-AtHome-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) On Friday, April 29, 2005 9:07 PM , David Pilling wrote: ... > Tonnie Demarteau wrote: >> Download fonts. I assume only those fonts are downloaded and hence >> embedded, which aren't substituted in the chosen printer's >> properties --> device settings. > > Correct. The font substitution table which is part of Windows PS > drivers is used for direct PS - regardless of the "generic" setting. So, the generic setting also follows the font substitution table. I wonder...font substitution table from which printer, when more than one is installed? It can be from the printer set as default printer ... Or ... what I would prefer ... from the printer, chosen in the print menu at the time that a dpd will be printed. In that case, the printer doesn't need to be the default printer. A hardware printer can have much more inbuilt fonts than e.g. Acrobat (Distiller). The font substitution table in the device settings from both printers can be different. I wonder, what happens when there is a font substitution to a font, which isn't present. E.g. Bookmark with a font substitution to Bookman is OK for my printer and can be set in the table of that printer. It isn't present in the Acrobat Distiller printer and hence can't be set there. When the settings are taken from the default printer, this would mean that there is also a Bookman entry for Distiller - when I make my hardware printer default. Or that there is no Bookman entry, when I make Distiller as default ... Hence, I wonder about 'which' table will be used in 'Choices'. > It can be quite difficult to find, Printers and Faxes from the start > menu, then right click and properties. Or Control Panel-->Printers-->right click-->Properties-->Device Settings. > > You may recall that earlier versions of OPW had a PS section to the > font manager, that has gone, and is replaced by the font substitution > table in Windows. > >> Maybe setting 'Direct PostScript output' ON by default in Choices? >> This would mean, that the windows drivers still can be used ... after > > Yes my inclination is to make direct PS on, be the default, but to > improve things by reading the PS level from the printer - as well as > allowing the level to be set to any desired value. Reading the PS level from the printer .... Raises to me again same question as above: from *which* printer: the one set as default or the one chosen in print menu. > This has been a useful discussion. I agree. I had to continue, for I still had some questions as can be seen above :-) Tonnie -- Mrs Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 29 22:28:51 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DRcv1-0006ma-Mf-0006no."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:28:51 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DRcv1-0006ma-Mf; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:21:04 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.77] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRcv1-0006ma-Mf; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:21:03 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRcv0-0003IW-R3; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:21:02 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRcut-0002Kz-CN; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:20:55 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3TLKkr14169 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:20:46 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3TLKjD14163 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:20:45 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DRcuj-000G5c-EO for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 21:20:45 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:19:17 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OvPro for Win - Printing References: <4d6041f9ffcharles.hope@argonet.co.uk> <002601c54cd1$34321360$6502a8c0@padua> <004001c54cf4$4ff5fee0$6502a8c0@padua> In-Reply-To: <004001c54cf4$4ff5fee0$6502a8c0@padua> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >I wonder...font substitution table from which printer, when more than one is >installed? The printer you are printing to. >I wonder, what happens when there is a font substitution to a font, which >isn't present. Presumably given the above comment the situation cannot arise. However if you had a printer definition file that says a font is available and it is not, then all bets are off - the PS will crash. >Or Control Panel-->Printers-->right click-->Properties-->Device Settings. Yes, not everyone has "printers and faxes" on their start menu. (I do find it useful, but I didn't put it there). >Raises to me again same question as above: from *which* printer: the one set >as default or the one chosen in print menu. Again the printer that you are printing to. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Fri Apr 29 23:28:54 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DRdsN-0000BF-Ff-0000Bd."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:28:54 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DRdsN-0000BF-Ff; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:22:24 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRdsN-0000BF-Ff; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:22:23 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.33] (helo=smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRdsN-0004Tr-Mh; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:22:23 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay04.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRdsK-0006Aw-54; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:22:20 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3TMMB024217 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:22:11 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3TMMAl24206 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:22:10 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DRdsA-0008QB-DB for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Fri, 29 Apr 2005 22:22:10 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:21:06 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: [softwarelist] Ovation Windows CD online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, I've long promised that Ovation Pro for Windows will be supplied on CD. This is still true. However I've decided to construct the CD like a web site, as a result I can make the CD contents available over the web. The advantages of this are that you can always get the latest version of the CD, and I only have one set of files to maintain. Anyway the CD is now online at: http://www.davidpilling.info/cd Beware that some of the links are to folders, and folders can't be opened on the web server - a zip file of the folder contents can be downloaded in each case. Over the past year or so I've supplied links to things like fonts and DPScan for Windows etc. all those links have now gone, the resources are still there but available from the appropriate part of the CD. I've also used my huge web space to put the complete mail list archives online (from 1996). This means their location has changed, but links are provided from all the usual places. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 30 18:21:46 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DRvef-0001NN-8l-0001OC."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 18:21:46 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DRvef-0001NN-8l; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:21:27 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRvef-0001NN-8l; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:21:25 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.32] (helo=smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRvef-0004ta-Hw; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 17:21:25 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay03.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRveY-0005Zs-9v; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 18:21:18 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3UHK0P10261 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 18:20:00 +0100 Received: from mta10-winn.mailhost.ntl.com (smtpout18.mailhost.ntl.com [212.250.162.18]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3UHK0910232 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 18:20:00 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from aamta05-winn.mailhost.ntl.com ([212.250.162.8]) by mta10-winn.mailhost.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20050430171955.CZTL18795.mta10-winn.mailhost.ntl.com@aamta05-winn.mailhost.ntl.com> for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 18:19:55 +0100 Received: from risco.home ([81.110.160.151]) by aamta05-winn.mailhost.ntl.com with SMTP id <20050430171955.JXTX1280.aamta05-winn.mailhost.ntl.com@risco.home> for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 18:19:55 +0100 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 18:20:46 +0100 (BST) From: Anthony Hilton Subject: Re: [softwarelist] OvPro for Win - Printing To: Ovation Pro List In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-7.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In on Fri 29 Apr, David Pilling wrote: > > >I wonder, what happens when there is a font substitution to a font, which > >isn't present. > > Presumably given the above comment the situation cannot arise. However > if you had a printer definition file that says a font is available and > it is not, then all bets are off - the PS will crash. In my experience most PS printers default to Courier for absent fonts, though some can be configured to a different font. The result is always not as intended but the PS interpretter doesn't crash. > >Or Control Panel-->Printers-->right click-->Properties-->Device Settings. > > Yes, not everyone has "printers and faxes" on their start menu. (I do > find it useful, but I didn't put it there). Depends which version of Windows - I think it is standard on WinXP but not on previous versions. Anthony -- ajh@tinshill.f9.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 30 21:11:55 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DRyF4-0007f7-Ev-0007fX."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:11:55 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DRyF4-0007f7-Ev; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:07:11 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.210] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRyF4-0007f7-Ev; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:07:10 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRyF4-0003hp-Fd; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:07:10 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRyEl-0007NZ-1X; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:06:51 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3UK6UK30629 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:06:30 +0100 Received: from mta13-winn.mailhost.ntl.com (smtpout19.mailhost.ntl.com [212.250.162.19]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3UK6Ua30625 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:06:30 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from aamta08-winn.mailhost.ntl.com ([212.250.162.8]) by mta13-winn.mailhost.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20050430200630.VDRF8086.mta13-winn.mailhost.ntl.com@aamta08-winn.mailhost.ntl.com> for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:06:30 +0100 Received: from ntlworld ([81.100.203.215]) by aamta08-winn.mailhost.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20050430200629.JSLE1844.aamta08-winn.mailhost.ntl.com@ntlworld> for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:06:29 +0100 Subject: [softwarelist] Sorting To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: JayCee X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.01 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:06:27 +0100 Message-ID: <81f8de634d.jaycee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> X-Organization: JaySoft User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/3.21 (MsgServe/3.05) (RISC-OS/5.08) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.9 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Is there an applet which allows you to sort a number of seperate lines into alphabetical order - such as you can do in StrongEd? JayCee -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sat Apr 30 22:01:57 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DRyxS-0002Y6-JA-0002Yc."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 22:01:57 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DRyxS-0002Y6-JA; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:53:04 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRyxS-0002Y6-JA; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:53:02 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.31] (helo=smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DRyxS-0005LL-OW; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:53:02 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay02.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DRyxN-0000NM-7M; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:52:57 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3UKqhD17463 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:52:43 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.86]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3UKqg717456 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:52:42 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-36.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DRyx8-000Mke-JP for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 20:52:42 +0000 Message-ID: <9xmtgtBV$+cCFwXg@pilling.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 21:51:33 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Sorting References: <81f8de634d.jaycee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <81f8de634d.jaycee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi, >Is there an applet which allows you to sort a number of seperate lines >into alphabetical order - such as you can do in StrongEd? Not as far as I know, but you could write one. IdxPro has a nice sort routine in the script language... -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sun May 1 00:02:02 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DS0tk-00000e-JW-000018."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sun, 1 May 2005 00:02:02 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DS0tk-00000e-JW; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 22:57:20 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DS0tk-00000e-JW; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 22:57:20 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DS0tj-0004xX-RS; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 22:57:19 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DS0tc-0001b5-Ls; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 23:57:12 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3UMubA18414 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 23:56:37 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3UMubP18411 for ; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 23:56:37 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from skipton.demon.co.uk ([80.177.111.128] helo=IYONIX) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DS0t2-0005qd-8h for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 22:56:36 +0000 Subject: [softwarelist] Scanners To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: C J Craig X-Editor: EmailEdit 1.01 Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 23:56:48 +0100 Message-ID: X-Organization: Home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/3.21 (MsgServe/3.05) (RISC-OS/5.08) POPstar/2.05 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) Hi I need a flatbed scanner for my Iyonix. I wonder which scanner is current & fully supported? for example Epson Perfection 2480 will this work with the 2400 Twain driver? Chris -- C J Craig Chris@skipton.demon.co.uk www.chriscraig.co.uk Castle Iyonix XScale Processor RiscOS 32 bit PC. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sun May 1 00:12:03 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DS12q-00068k-Du-000693."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sun, 1 May 2005 00:12:03 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DS12q-00068k-Du; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 23:06:44 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.72] (helo=anchor-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DS12q-00068k-Du; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 23:06:44 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.30] (helo=smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk) by anchor-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DS12q-0007Nr-5o; Sat, 30 Apr 2005 23:06:44 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay01.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DS12l-000297-Ve; Sun, 01 May 2005 00:06:39 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j3UN6MV22594 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 1 May 2005 00:06:22 +0100 Received: from mailout.zetnet.co.uk (mailout.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.231]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j3UN6LS22590 for ; Sun, 1 May 2005 00:06:21 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from bts-0463.dialup.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.49.207] helo=zetnet.co.uk) by mailout.zetnet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1DS12R-0002LX-00 for ; Sun, 01 May 2005 00:06:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Michael M Martin To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 00:05:34 +0100 Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Scanners Message-ID: <4d63ef5e67mmartin@zetnet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Pluto/3.04c (RISC-OS/4.04) POPstar/2.03 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.4 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_01,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES, REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,USER_AGENT autolearn=ham version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) In article , C J Craig wrote: > Hi > I need a flatbed scanner for my Iyonix. > I wonder which scanner is current & fully supported? > for example Epson Perfection 2480 will this work with the 2400 > Twain driver? I understand there is no driver as of yet for this scanner, I have one on my lap top and it's a nice scanner, but like you would love to get it working on my RISC OS PC. Best Regards, Mick -- |^^^^ Michael Martin ^^^^^ mmartin@zetnet.co.uk ^^^|Using Kinetic RiscPC| | * http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/mmartin/fifepits/ *| Email and News by | | ^^^ http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/mmartin/sign/ ^^^| !Pluto | |====== Risc OS immune to email Virus ======|===With RISC OS 4===| -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net From owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Sun May 1 02:12:09 2005 Received: from 127.0.0.1 by pilling.demon.co.uk with POP3 id <1DS2wq-0004Nr-44-0004Q3."pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> for <"pilling:pop3.demon.co.uk"@127.0.0.1> ; Sun, 1 May 2005 02:12:09 +0100 Return-path: Received: from punt-3.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 1DS2wq-0004Nr-44; Sun, 01 May 2005 01:08:41 +0000 Received: from [194.217.242.223] (helo=lon1-hub.mail.demon.net) by punt-3.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DS2wq-0004Nr-44; Sun, 01 May 2005 01:08:40 +0000 Received: from [212.69.217.34] (helo=smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk) by lon1-hub.mail.demon.net with esmtp id 1DS2wq-0005JB-3d; Sun, 01 May 2005 01:08:40 +0000 Received: from [212.69.206.29] (helo=svr1.spellings.net) by smtp-relay05.x-mailer.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.30) id 1DS2uv-0003sJ-5E; Sun, 01 May 2005 02:06:41 +0100 Received: (from admin@localhost) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) id j4116UK21074 for softwarelist-OutGoing; Sun, 1 May 2005 02:06:30 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.85]) by svr1.spellings.net (8.11.7/8.11.7) with ESMTP id j4116TH21060 for ; Sun, 1 May 2005 02:06:29 +0100 Delivered-To: Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([62.49.20.172]) by anchor-post-35.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 4.42) id 1DS2rl-000FDV-J6 for softwarelist@davidpilling.net; Sun, 01 May 2005 01:03:26 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 02:05:19 +0100 To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net From: David Pilling Subject: Re: [softwarelist] Scanners References: In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-S (<4T+r1rR+bkVQqNpwE9H6P2XkEQ>) Sender: owner-softwarelist@davidpilling.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: softwarelist@davidpilling.net X-maillist: softwarelist X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE, USER_AGENT version=2.55 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) >I need a flatbed scanner for my Iyonix. I believe CJE or Castle will sell you one. >I wonder which scanner is current & fully supported? www.davidpilling.net/twain.html >for example Epson Perfection 2480 will this work with the 2400 >Twain driver? I believe not, someone asked this a couple of weeks ago. -- David Pilling email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.davidpilling.net post: David Pilling P.O. Box 22 Thornton Cleveleys Blackpool. FY5 1LR UK fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email listadmin@davidpilling.net with the words UNSUBSCRIBE softwarelist in the body of the message Mailing list provided and hosted by www.spellings.net