From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 15:05:02 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149486 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 15:05:00 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988704488:20:14488:65; Tue, 01 May 2001 08:08:08 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2118411; 1 May 2001 8:07 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4186M300835 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 09:06:22 +0100 Received: from inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (root@[193.114.241.3]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4186H500826 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 09:06:17 +0100 Received: from sharp.co.uk (aardog.sle.sharp.co.uk [192.16.16.173]) by inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA24568 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 09:03:29 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk> Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 09:06:39 +0100 From: Graham Jones Organization: Sharp Laboratories of Europe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig &  hard spaces References: <149440@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro David Pilling wrote: > > According to Graham Jones: > >1. With no text selected the "Modify Text" dialog should have a > >Kern option (according to the manual). > > This is an old one. A decision was made to change this behaviour after > the 1996 manual went to press, but before the first version of the program > appeared. Ooops, sorry, I didn't realise. I can't seem to find an option to apply kerning by hand - is that because there just isn't one at all? > >2. Hard spaces don't seem to produce a fixed length space in > >justified text! > > Some effort has gone into making this the way things work. Eh? But what if I want (and I quite often do) a fixed, normal length, space in some justified text? I can think of several examples where it is useful. Graham. PS. Sorry for posting the last message from my non sub-scribed account, I thought it would look like it came from this account! -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 15:05:13 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149490 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 15:05:11 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988717945:10:06270:69; Tue, 01 May 2001 11:52:25 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1125777; 1 May 2001 11:52 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f41Bog401960 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 12:50:42 +0100 Received: from hobbit.iso.port.ac.uk (IDENT:exim@hobbit.iso.port.ac.uk [148.197.1.4]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f41Boc501957 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 12:50:38 +0100 Received: from [148.197.249.149] (helo=ARMless) by hobbit.iso.port.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.14 #2) id 14uYfz-0008Qx-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 01 May 2001 12:50:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Simon Young To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 12:53:49 +0100 Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces Message-ID: <4a73d16663simon.young@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk> References: <149440@pilling.demon.co.uk> <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02d (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk>, Graham Jones wrote: > Eh? But what if I want (and I quite often do) a fixed, normal length, > space in some justified text? I can think of several examples where it > is useful. Indeed, for example one uses a hard space to sepatate units from a number, so that the "word" of number and units remains unbroken. -- Simon A. Young BPharm MRPharmS PhD | Tel: 023-9284-3610 Lecturer in Pharmaceutics | Fax: 023-9284-3565 University of Portsmouth |e-mail: simon.young@port.ac.uk ================================================================== Please visit our web-site located at: http://www.sci.port.ac.uk/pharmacy/drug_del.htm http://userwww.port.ac.uk/youngs ================================================================== -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 15:05:35 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149492 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 15:05:34 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988712911:20:17377:69; Tue, 01 May 2001 10:28:31 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab2016980; 1 May 2001 10:28 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f41AOtQ01464 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 11:24:55 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f41AOp501461 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 11:24:52 +0100 Received: from [62.188.143.145] (helo=62.188.143.145) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14uXIr-0001fp-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 01 May 2001 11:22:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Dr P.N.Young" To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 06:28:11 +0100 Subject: Re: !POBar the end Message-ID: <4a73ae17c9pnyoung@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <149400@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <149400@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02d (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <149400@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling wrote: > Hi, > >Thanks for trying it, and I am reassured. However, it gets odder. I > >have in front of me two bar-codes; one is on a letter from the Bank, > >put on by them, which is nearly the same as the one produced by POBar > >(just a few extra bars on the end in the Bank one). > Does it decode, and what to No, it gives 'bad four-bar sequence' errors. Best wishes, Peter. -- Peter \ / \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. Anne \ / __ __ \ England. Cecilia / / \ | | |\ | / _ \http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/pnyoung James / \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \_____________ pnyoung@argonet.co.uk. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 15:06:03 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149498 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 15:05:59 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988722258:20:06349:82; Tue, 01 May 2001 13:04:18 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2129413; 1 May 2001 13:01 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f41CrBN02332 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 13:53:11 +0100 Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow035o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.121]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f41Cr7502329 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 13:53:07 +0100 Received: from goatly ([213.48.248.15]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 1 May 2001 12:54:38 +0000 Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 13:41:33 +0100 From: Bruce Goatly To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4a73d16663simon.young@argonet.co.uk> X-Organization: Perfect Page X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.61b User-Agent: POPstar/2.01b12 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In message <4a73d16663simon.young@argonet.co.uk> Simon Young wrote: > In article <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk>, Graham Jones > wrote: > > Eh? But what if I want (and I quite often do) a fixed, normal length, > > space in some justified text? I can think of several examples where it > > is useful. > > Indeed, for example one uses a hard space to sepatate units from a number, > so that the "word" of number and units remains unbroken. That's exactly right; we need to (be able to) distinguish between a non-breaking space and a *fixed* space; the two are not necessarily the same. And just because Quark uses expandable non-breaking spaces doesn't make it right. (Look at the difference between the front and back halves of Nature magazine, for example: the back half - Reviews, Articles and Letters - is set by an external typesetter using 3B2; the front half - all the newsy bits up to Brief Communications - is done in-house with Quark. The two packages treat the fixed space differently, and I know which I prefer.) Oh, dear. I hadn't realized that Ovation Pro did this. I was about to change over some of my professional scientific publications from Impression to OPro because of the greater flexibility of the latter; unfortunately, two of my clients won't accept a non-fixed space between number and unit (among other places). If I can't achieve it easily I'll have to stick with Impression for those jobs. Bruce Goatly -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 19:04:24 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149518 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 19:04:22 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988739767:10:22933:125; Tue, 01 May 2001 17:56:07 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1103296; 1 May 2001 17:55 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f41HsAV03590 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 18:54:10 +0100 Received: from altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net (altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net [193.67.237.6]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f41Hs6503587 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 18:54:06 +0100 Received: from padua by altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net via 1Cust124.tnt30.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.154.124] with SMTP for id TAA24012 (8.8.8/1.3); Tue, 1 May 2001 19:54:10 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <001501c0d267$e8c9fd30$4d01a8c0@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: "Ovation Pro" References: <149440@pilling.demon.co.uk> <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk> <4a73d16663simon.young@argonet.co.uk> Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 19:54:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Tue 01 May, Simon Young wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 1:53 PM Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces > In article <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk>, Graham Jones > wrote: > > Eh? But what if I want (and I quite often do) a fixed, normal length, > > space in some justified text? I can think of several examples where it > > is useful. > > Indeed, for example one uses a hard space to sepatate units from a number, > so that the "word" of number and units remains unbroken. There is a work-around by defining a style to apply tracking to a selection of a unit and the following number. Because a space and a non-broken space (ASCII 160) have also a proportional width, that differs from font to font, this tracking can't be the same for every font. For most fonts it is somewhere between 250 and 300 (em, I think, based on a scale of a design size of 1000). I have defined a style 'track 160 Trini(ty)' with the scope 'selection', that only contains 'text' --> 'tracking 250' switched on. For Homerton a style 'track 160 Homer(ton)' same scope, tracking 275. For condensed fonts, a lower value can be used, which you can find by trial and error ... Because there isn't a typed space (ASCII 32 nor ASCII 160) the 'space' created by the tracking remains a fixed white (or other background colour) and is part of the 'word'. So it remains unbroken. It isn't the nicest solution, but it works. Whether this also works in !pdf, I haven't tried ... mrs. Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 22:10:51 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149521 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 22:10:49 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988743526:10:28047:68; Tue, 01 May 2001 18:58:46 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1027433; 1 May 2001 18:57 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f41Ikeb03977 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 19:46:40 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f41IkW503971 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 19:46:36 +0100 Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([158.152.204.98]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14ufAO-000Cqp-0W for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 1 May 2001 19:46:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 19:47:47 +0100 Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces Message-ID: <4a73f74c9ajohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <149512@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <149512@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02d (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <149512@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling wrote: > >Ooops, sorry, I didn't realise. I can't seem to find an option to apply > >kerning by hand - is that because there just isn't one at all? > There is a way, you use the key presses, Control and ; ' (or with > shift). Internally this works by applying some tracking, which some > people don't like. Having checked it (it's surprising what you miss!) I'd like to know why ' repeats but ; doesn't ? -- John Cartmell - Manchester, UK Fleur Designs -- FD Games - - - compact designer board games at: Acorn/RISC OS Show - - - Thornes Park Stadium, Wakefield 19th & 20th May 2001 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 22:10:52 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149522 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 22:10:49 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988741642:20:13935:80; Tue, 01 May 2001 18:27:22 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2120730; 1 May 2001 18:26 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f41I24403665 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 19:02:04 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f41I1w503658 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 19:01:58 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14ueTH-000Joe-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 1 May 2001 18:01:59 +0000 Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 18:28:14 GMT Message-Id: <149512@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >Ooops, sorry, I didn't realise. I can't seem to find an option to apply >kerning by hand - is that because there just isn't one at all? There is a way, you use the key presses, Control and ; ' (or with shift). Internally this works by applying some tracking, which some people don't like. >Eh? But what if I want (and I quite often do) a fixed, normal length, space >in some justified text? I can think of several examples where it is useful. I guess there are different ways of arguing as the postings above indicate. How about if I provided the following... A new entity in text, called 'space' which gives a fixed vertical and horizontal movement. There would be a dialogue box to enter the size of the shifts, a button to make it non-breaking and you could enter shifts either as absolute (feet and inches) or as a fraction of the text size. Then there would be a few more predefined macros {emspace} etc. to allow easy insertion with a key press. Feel free to make suggestions or tell me how Quark etc. does it. There might for the time being be a horrible workaround by applying tracking to a space. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 22:10:57 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149524 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 22:10:54 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988742510:20:28935:73; Tue, 01 May 2001 18:41:50 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2118786; 1 May 2001 18:41 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f41I22P03663 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 19:02:02 +0100 Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f418WI501033 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 09:32:18 +0100 Received: from riscpc.at.home ([213.107.105.170]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010501083224.IWKP283.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@riscpc.at.home> for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 09:32:24 +0100 Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 09:32:06 +0100 From: John Pettigrew To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) Message-ID: References: <149440@pilling.demon.co.uk> <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk> X-Organization: XL Cambridge User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10d (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.22 (27 Nov 1998) patch-3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In a previous message, Graham Jones wrote: > David Pilling wrote: > > > > According to Graham Jones: > > >2. Hard spaces don't seem to produce a fixed length space in justified > > >text! > > > > Some effort has gone into making this the way things work. > > Eh? But what if I want (and I quite often do) a fixed, normal length, space > in some justified text? I can think of several examples where it is useful. Then you need an en or em space, or some other variant. A hard space is not a fixed-length space but a non-breaking space. That is, if I type 'test text' with a hard space between the words, OvPro will not put a line break between the words. This is very useful in lots of publishing work as it saves a lot of tedious mucking around to get the layout right. For example, if I write "the plank was 9 m long" then I don't want the "9" on one line and the "m" on the next line. What length of space do you need and why? That is, what is a 'normal' space in justified text? John -- John Pettigrew XL Cambridge - Contract and freelance editing and writing Life sciences specialist - molecular biology, genetics, biotechnology john@xl-cambridge.com http://www.xl-cambridge.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 22:11:03 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149526 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 22:10:59 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988743961:20:24737:68; Tue, 01 May 2001 19:06:01 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2024260; 1 May 2001 19:05 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f41I25H03666 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 19:02:05 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f41I20503661 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 19:02:01 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14ueTJ-000Joe-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 1 May 2001 18:02:02 +0000 Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 18:37:44 GMT Message-Id: <149514@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: OPro news (new manuals) X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hi, When I bought Ovation Pro off Beebug (nearly two years ago now), I got all their stock, which included about 250 'packs' i.e. the boxes and manuals that come with Ovation Pro. Those packs are now exhausted and I've had to repackage the product. So Ovation Pro now comes with an A5 white PVC 3 ring binder in a slip case. (funnily enough just like the Impression packaging). The binder contains the manual as on the CD printed out. At the upcoming Wakefield show, there will be a couple of stands demoing Ovation Pro and they'll have copies of the new packs. Anyway this is very nice, a bit more of the Beebug legacy disposed of, and John van Vredenburch's hard work on the manual appears in print at last. If anyone wants a copy of the new manual then I've set a price of ukp 25 all inclusive. This seems high to me, but its a heavy item and a small print run. For most people using the manual on the CD will be the best thing. A lot of others don't like manuals or don't read them. or you can print it yourself. Turning to the script language manual. I can have some of these printed. Basically two formats are on offer. Either a wire bound manual (which is handy) or a set of 3 hole punched pages that will fit in the above binders (easy to change). If anyone is interested in a script language manual drop me an email. I'll see how high the level of interest is, and in what format (I'm unlikely to support both) before getting the script language manuals printed. Price would be less than 10 pounds all inc. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 22:11:20 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149531 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 22:11:18 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988745075:20:14565:66; Tue, 01 May 2001 19:24:35 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2112408; 1 May 2001 19:24 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f41JO1F04435 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 20:24:01 +0100 Received: from alpha.netvision.net.il (alpha.netvision.net.il [194.90.1.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f41JNt504432 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 20:23:56 +0100 Received: from netvision.net.il (ras6-p16.jlm.netvision.net.il [62.0.150.16]) by alpha.netvision.net.il (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA18716 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 22:23:57 +0300 (IDT) Message-ID: <3AEF0D80.39264257@netvision.net.il> Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 22:24:48 +0300 From: Michael Ben-Gershon Organization: My Office X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.19 i686) X-Accept-Language: en-GB, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces References: <149512@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro David Pilling wrote: > How about if I provided the following... > > A new entity in text, called 'space' which gives a fixed vertical and horizontal > movement. There would be a dialogue box to enter the size of the shifts, a > button to make it non-breaking and you could enter shifts either as absolute > (feet and inches) or as a fraction of the text size. Then there would be > a few more predefined macros {emspace} etc. to allow easy insertion > with a key press. Sounds a great idea. On another topic, I am slowly converting old Impression docs to Ovation Pro, and find the Impression loader very reliable (even better now it gets the filename correct as well). Michael Ben-Gershon mybg@netvision.net.il -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 1 22:11:26 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149533 for opro ; Tue, 01 May 101 22:11:24 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988745322:20:18357:75; Tue, 01 May 2001 19:28:42 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2018728; 1 May 2001 19:28 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f41JRlt04494 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 1 May 2001 20:27:47 +0100 Received: from alpha.netvision.net.il (alpha.netvision.net.il [194.90.1.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f41JRf504491 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 20:27:42 +0100 Received: from netvision.net.il (ras6-p16.jlm.netvision.net.il [62.0.150.16]) by alpha.netvision.net.il (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA18722 for ; Tue, 1 May 2001 22:27:44 +0300 (IDT) Message-ID: <3AEF0E64.38E7C036@netvision.net.il> Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 22:28:36 +0300 From: Michael Ben-Gershon Organization: My Office X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.19 i686) X-Accept-Language: en-GB, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Page # of # References: <364281FA.231A@net.ntl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R This is a follow-on query to an old question: Pete Bready wrote (in November 1988!): > > Sam Smith wrote: > > > > Is there any way to get Ovation Pro to put "page x of y" > > automatically (ie, page 1 of 4 on the first page, 2 of 4 on the > > second etc). I have an applet (I think - it may be part of the > > main program) which adds page # (where # is the current page > > number) but not what page of how many. > We really need a FAQs list, this is the fourth or fifth time I've posted > this - I know how David P must feel at times. No problem however :-) > > Put the MERGE commands shown below into a file, set its type to OVPDDL, > open a blank Ovpro document and drag the OVPDDL file to it, then use > Misc/Insert/merge tag to insert the necessary merge fields. > > Then preview the document using File/Mail Merge, clicking on the 'First' > button > to see the results. > > Cheers > > Pete Bready > pbready@net.ntl.com > > MERGE_02={merge 901 "time" "{gettimestring(\"%24:%MI:%SE\",macv)}"} > MERGE_03={merge 902 "filename" "{fileinfo(currentfile(),macv)}"} > MERGE_04={merge 903 "numpages" "{int i,n,f,c;f=currentfile();c=documentchapters(f);for(i=0;i; Wed, 2 May 2001 01:21:15 +0100 Received: from ppp-3-188.5800-11.access.uk.worldonline.com ([62.64.180.188] helo=ghc) by mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.worldonline.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #3) id 14ukOI-000192-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 02 May 2001 01:21:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Gavin Crawford To: "Ovation Pro" Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 01:21:12 +0100 Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces Message-ID: <4a7415d308gav@crawford-print.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <001501c0d267$e8c9fd30$4d01a8c0@padua> References: <149440@pilling.demon.co.uk> <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk> <4a73d16663simon.young@argonet.co.uk> <001501c0d267$e8 User-Agent: Pluto/2.02d (RISC-OS/3.70) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Another work-around is to create a Non-printing colour and apply that colour to a character of your chosen width, such as a capital M or N. Some problems you have to watch for though, is the spell checker not recognising the words, and any text that is exported will need to have the characters replaced with spaces. -- Gavin Crawford email: gav@crawford-print.co.uk web: www.crawford-print.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 14:10:57 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149555 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 14:10:56 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988765251:20:15153:67; Wed, 02 May 2001 01:00:51 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2127770; 2 May 2001 0:59 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f420wbH05929 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 01:58:37 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f420wY505926 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 01:58:34 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14ukyV-0003St-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 2 May 2001 00:58:39 +0000 Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 22:26:13 GMT Message-Id: <149543@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Page # of # X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R >However, it does not seem to work within page headers. Does anyone know of >a way to do this? It is very useful to be able to put page # of # on the >page header. Seemingly mail merge tags are not replaced in header/footers. Might be a bug, might be some sort of optimisation. Needs fixing anyway. The obvious workaround is to create your own header out of a text frame, probably not too much trouble. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 14:11:11 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149560 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 14:11:07 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988804499:10:29359:129; Wed, 02 May 2001 11:54:59 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id ab1103119; 2 May 2001 11:53 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42BL6k08163 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 12:21:06 +0100 Received: from msgrouter2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgrouter2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.141]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42BL2508160 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 12:21:02 +0100 Received: from bghill.onetel.net.uk (async39-13.nas.onetel.net.uk [212.67.109.39]) by msgrouter2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with SMTP id AAJ55458; Wed, 2 May 2001 12:21:00 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 11:14:18 +0000 (GMT) From: "Bernard G. Hill" Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces To: Ovation Mail In-Reply-To: <149512@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by omega.barnet.ac.uk id f42BL6l08163 On Tue 01 May, David Pilling wrote: >=20 > >Ooops, sorry, I didn't realise. I can't seem to find an option to appl= y > >kerning by hand - is that because there just isn't one at all? >=20 > There is a way, you use the key presses, Control and ; ' (or with shift= ). > Internally this works by applying some tracking, which some people don'= t like. >=20 > >Eh? But what if I want (and I quite often do) a fixed, normal length, = space > >in some justified text? I can think of several examples where it is us= eful. >=20 > I guess there are different ways of arguing as the postings above indic= ate. >=20 > How about if I provided the following... >=20 > A new entity in text, called 'space' which gives a fixed vertical and > horizontal movement. There would be a dialogue box to enter the size > of the shifts, a button to make it non-breaking and you could enter > shifts either as absolute > (feet and inches) or as a fraction of the text size. Then there would b= e > a few more predefined macros {emspace} etc. to allow easy insertion > with a key press. >=20 > Feel free to make suggestions or tell me how Quark etc. does it. >=20 > This would be an excellent solution to the problem. Within 'Pagemaker'=A9 en and em spaces are available by control key/keyboard, combinations, which I often found useful. Numbers in the old lead type are usually on an en body so an en space keeps numbers correctly spaced when used in situations such as telephone numbers. That is how we always did it in the old days anyway. If the proposed 'space' solution as suggested above is implemented, may I make a plea that the suggested en and em spaces be available as a pre-defined choice? Could control/spacebar and control/shift/spacebar be used for these? Perhaps we only need these two fixed spaces, as greater horizontal spaces are catered for by tabs, and vertical spaces by leading. Bernard. --=20 Bernard G. Hill Tel/Fax: 01633 880197 Zion, Church Road Undy, Caldicot =20 NP26 3EN=20 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 14:11:15 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149562 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 14:11:12 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988784106:20:24819:68; Wed, 02 May 2001 06:15:06 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2121171; 2 May 2001 6:13 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f426Cvb07048 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 07:12:57 +0100 Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow035o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.121]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f426Cs507045 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 07:12:54 +0100 Received: from goatly ([213.48.249.144]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 2 May 2001 06:14:47 +0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 07:11:18 +0100 From: Bruce Goatly To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces Message-ID: <9ee035744a%ovation@goatly.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <149512@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Perfect Page X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.61b User-Agent: POPstar/2.01b12 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In message <149512@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > A new entity in text, called 'space' which gives a fixed vertical and horizontal > movement. There would be a dialogue box to enter the size of the shifts, a > button to make it non-breaking and you could enter shifts either as absolute > (feet and inches) or as a fraction of the text size. Then there would be > a few more predefined macros {emspace} etc. to allow easy insertion > with a key press. Sounds like a good idea - meets the original perceived need and goes beyond it! > Feel free to make suggestions or tell me how Quark etc. does it. I've a nasty feeling that it doesn't - I'll try to check today while I'm over at Nature. Bruce Goatly -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 14:11:26 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149567 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 14:11:25 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988793163:20:09941:67; Wed, 02 May 2001 08:46:03 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2104593; 2 May 2001 8:45 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f428irE07559 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 09:44:53 +0100 Received: from inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (root@[193.114.241.3]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f428io507556 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 09:44:50 +0100 Received: from sharp.co.uk (aardog.sle.sharp.co.uk [192.16.16.173]) by inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA10485 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 09:42:00 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3AEFC918.6E96B8EA@sharp.co.uk> Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 09:45:12 +0100 From: Graham Jones Organization: Sharp Laboratories of Europe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) References: <149440@pilling.demon.co.uk> <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R John Pettigrew wrote: > What length of space do you need and why? That is, what is a 'normal' space > in justified text? By "normal" length, I mean a space of the length you get in non-justified text for the font you are using. As others have noted they are needed for things like units after a measurement. I appreciate there is a difference between a non-breaking space and a fixed length space, but my experience with other software is that these have usually been made to be one and the same. And the printed manual said a hard space would insert a fixed length, non-breaking space. Graham. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 14:11:47 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149573 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 14:11:46 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988807297:20:11110:85; Wed, 02 May 2001 12:41:37 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2028596; 2 May 2001 12:28 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42CKJB08415 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 13:20:19 +0100 Received: from inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (root@[193.114.241.3]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42CKF508411 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 13:20:15 +0100 Received: from sharp.co.uk (aardog.sle.sharp.co.uk [192.16.16.173]) by inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA13996 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 13:17:03 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3AEFFB78.877D8584@sharp.co.uk> Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 13:20:08 +0100 From: Graham Jones Organization: Sharp Laboratories of Europe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kerning & ? hard spaces References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R "Bernard G. Hill" wrote: > > On Tue 01 May, David Pilling wrote: > > How about if I provided the following... > > > > A new entity in text, called 'space' which gives a fixed vertical and > > horizontal movement. There would be a dialogue box to enter the size > > of the shifts, a button to make it non-breaking and you could enter > > shifts either as absolute > > (feet and inches) or as a fraction of the text size. Then there would be > > a few more predefined macros {emspace} etc. to allow easy insertion > > with a key press. > > > > Feel free to make suggestions or tell me how Quark etc. does it. > > > If the proposed 'space' solution as suggested above is implemented, may > I make a plea that the suggested en and em spaces be available as a > pre-defined choice? Could control/spacebar and control/shift/spacebar be > used for these? > > Perhaps we only need these two fixed spaces, as greater horizontal > spaces are catered for by tabs, and vertical spaces by leading. I like the sound of the system David suggested, as long as easy to use defaults are set somewhere (ctrl-space etc sound nice if not already used). The complete system suggested may be very useful, for example in cases where the text reading direction is vertical - I don't think this can be done easily yet, though I haven't looked closely. In this case you would just use the new "space" in place of all normal spaces, either via an applet, or manually, or by binding them to the spacebar itself. Graham. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 17:49:22 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149592 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 17:49:21 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988814339:20:08975:298; Wed, 02 May 2001 14:38:59 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2121966; 2 May 2001 14:37 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42E2e808865 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 15:02:40 +0100 Received: from mail5.svr.pol.co.uk (mail5.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f429Ku507781 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 10:20:56 +0100 Received: from modem-15.flunitrazepam.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.95.143] helo=weatherpost.fsnet.co.uk) by mail5.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14usof-0004pl-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 02 May 2001 10:21:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ned Abell To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 10:19:53 +0100 Subject: Trapping? Message-ID: <4a74472474nedabell@enterprise.net> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Ive been asked by a printer to add trapping to some PS files because he cant guarantee registration. Ive looked at the manual and see the OP approach is to Overprint. When the colour tint is less than 90% overprinting can cause colour changes so in this case trapping could be a "good thing". However looking through the mail archives I see others think trapping as practiced by Qurk etc is "a very bad thing" :-) So has any one a work round when youve got say a mid yellow and a mid grey meeting being printed on white paper? -- besters.. Ned === -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 17:49:26 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149594 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 17:49:24 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988813584:10:29260:123; Wed, 02 May 2001 14:26:24 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1123341; 2 May 2001 14:26 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42E2UY08856 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 15:02:30 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42E2P508852 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 15:02:25 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14uxD4-000C3s-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 2 May 2001 14:02:30 +0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 14:21:15 GMT Message-Id: <149576@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kerning & ? hard spaces X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >The complete system suggested may be very useful, for example in cases where >the text reading direction is vertical - I don't think this can be done >easily yet A favourite game of mine, was to have a text frame at 90 degrees, and then fill it with text with a -90 degree rotation. You end up with upright text going down the page. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 17:49:31 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149596 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 17:49:28 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988815931:10:19724:64; Wed, 02 May 2001 15:05:31 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1102905; 2 May 2001 15:05 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42E2SL08855 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 15:02:28 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42E2N508847 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 15:02:24 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14uxD2-000C3s-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 2 May 2001 14:02:28 +0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 14:17:32 GMT Message-Id: <149574@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >And the printed manual said a hard space would insert a fixed length, >non-breaking space. Oops. No one told me. I do think (now you've explained it) that a hard space having a fixed length is probably the best compromise. Typically when you don't want text split, you also don't want it spreading out. Alas when I was doing it I got into the programming side, something was wrong with the way hard spaces worked and I fixed it. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 17:49:34 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149597 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 17:49:32 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988816260:10:26378:91; Wed, 02 May 2001 15:11:00 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1115250; 2 May 2001 15:10 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42E2h208866 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 15:02:43 +0100 Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f428th507674 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 09:55:43 +0100 Received: from riscpc.at.home ([213.107.105.170]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010502085549.CVUZ285.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@riscpc.at.home> for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 09:55:49 +0100 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 09:55:25 +0100 From: John Pettigrew To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) Message-ID: References: <149440@pilling.demon.co.uk> <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk> <3AEFC918.6E96B8EA@ In-Reply-To: <3AEFC918.6E96B8EA@sharp.co.uk> X-Organization: XL Cambridge User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10d (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.22 (27 Nov 1998) patch-3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In a previous message, Graham Jones wrote: > John Pettigrew wrote: > > What length of space do you need and why? That is, what is a 'normal' > > space in justified text? > > By "normal" length, I mean a space of the length you get in non-justified > text for the font you are using. As others have noted they are needed for > things like units after a measurement. Interesting. As you might have gathered, I work in publishing (for a variety of companies) and my experience is that publishers are ditching (mostly, have ditched) fixed spaces for units. They can also look very odd. In spacey text, the closer spacing before the unit can look good, but in tight text this produces a space that looks too wide. However, David's suggested solution sounds great - gives people the option, which has to be good. John -- John Pettigrew XL Cambridge - Contract and freelance editing and writing Life sciences specialist - molecular biology, genetics, biotechnology john@xl-cambridge.com http://www.xl-cambridge.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From chris.chorley@physics.org Wed May 2 22:29:12 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149609 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:10 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988823667:10:03598:36; Wed, 02 May 2001 17:14:27 GMT Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1128540; 2 May 2001 17:14 GMT Received: from [62.7.12.241] (helo=deskpro.physics.org) by carbon.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14v0Cn-0000hS-00 for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk; Wed, 02 May 2001 18:14:26 +0100 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20010502180652.009e58f0@mail.btinternet.com> X-Sender: chris.chorley@mail.btinternet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 18:10:58 +0100 To: opro@pilling.demon.co.uk From: Chris Chorley Subject: script language manual Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed David, 1. I'll be sending for the OvPro manual. ukp25 doesn't seem too bad. 2. I'd also send for a script manual, prefer set of 3 hole punched pages that will fit in the above binders. If it's not too long before you've gauged reaction to the script manual offering, then I'll wait until that is available and order both. Thanks, Chris. From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:12 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149608 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:10 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988825267:20:06712:70; Wed, 02 May 2001 17:41:07 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2006340; 2 May 2001 17:40 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42H1DF09879 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 18:01:13 +0100 Received: from bonn.shuttle.de (bonn.shuttle.de [194.95.249.247]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42GJP509692 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 17:19:33 +0100 Received: by bonn.shuttle.de (Postfix, from userid 10) id 916E817DC3; Wed, 2 May 2001 18:19:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hmg-koeln.de by Arktur.hmanngym.k.nw.schule.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m12mdjB-000fH3C; Tue, 2 May 100 16:32 MET DST Message-ID: <3AF00BB9.C115CD5D@hmg-koeln.de> Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 15:29:29 +0200 From: Jochen Konietzko Organization: Heinrich-Mann-Gymnasium X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [de] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V References: <149543@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro I just tried to duplicate part of a page with Ctr-C and Ctrl-V; the copy contained none of the styles nor effects of the original. How can I copy text with all frills included? Cheers, Jochen Konietzko -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:16 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149611 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:14 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988824369:10:20997:88; Wed, 02 May 2001 17:26:09 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1021091; 2 May 2001 17:25 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42H1MS09891 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 18:01:22 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42H1F509885 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 18:01:15 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14v009-000C7I-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 2 May 2001 17:01:21 +0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 18:01:35 GMT Message-Id: <149606@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >Could I ask you to follow your original suggestion and leave the proportional >hard space in? (Alas(?)) there is no question of changing it. To do so would break lots of documents. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:19 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149612 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:17 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988826778:20:12592:70; Wed, 02 May 2001 18:06:18 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2109704; 2 May 2001 18:05 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42I4L610152 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 19:04:21 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42I4H510149 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 19:04:17 +0100 Received: from [62.188.19.223] (helo=62.188.19.223) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14v0wn-0004YJ-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 02 May 2001 19:02:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Mijas Software) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 18:58:20 +0100 X-Organization: ArgoNet, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: Posty - Voyager Email 1.24 for RISC OS 4.02 Subject: Re: Trapping? Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Wed 2 May 2001 (10:19:53 +0100), nedabell@enterprise.net wrote: > So has any one a work round when youve got say a mid yellow and a mid > grey meeting being printed on white paper? > I would have thought that yellow overprinted with grey would work quite well. -- ___ _ __ ___________________________________________ |\/| | | |_| (_ / Scientific/Education/Utilities - RISC OS 4 | | | _| | | __) Software / email: mijassw@argonet.co.uk - Developer ____________________________/ web: http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/mijassw/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:23 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149614 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:21 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988827075:20:19799:65; Wed, 02 May 2001 18:11:15 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2019265; 2 May 2001 18:10 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42H1JI09889 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 18:01:19 +0100 Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42FK7509392 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 16:20:07 +0100 Received: from riscpc.at.home ([213.107.105.170]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010502152013.RMSS283.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@riscpc.at.home> for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 16:20:13 +0100 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 16:19:55 +0100 From: John Pettigrew To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) Message-ID: References: <149574@pilling.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <149574@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: XL Cambridge User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10d (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.22 (27 Nov 1998) patch-3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In a previous message, David Pilling wrote: > > >And the printed manual said a hard space would insert a fixed length, > >non-breaking space. > > Oops. No one told me. I do think (now you've explained it) that a hard > space having a fixed length is probably the best compromise. Typically when > you don't want text split, you also don't want it spreading out. Could I ask you to follow your original suggestion and leave the proportional hard space in? That is, leave the hard space as is, but also add the en space and em space macros, with the more complicated settings for those who want to delve. This seems most logical and flexible to me - you have the hard proportional space but also the hard fixed en and em spaces. I assume that no one can see a good reason to have a soft en or em space? How does that sound to others? John -- John Pettigrew XL Cambridge - Contract and freelance editing and writing Life sciences specialist - molecular biology, genetics, biotechnology john@xl-cambridge.com http://www.xl-cambridge.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:24 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149615 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:22 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988826155:10:03909:75; Wed, 02 May 2001 17:55:55 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1126617; 2 May 2001 17:55 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42H1Lc09890 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 18:01:21 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42H1E509882 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 18:01:14 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14v007-000C7I-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 2 May 2001 17:01:19 +0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 17:56:08 GMT Message-Id: <149604@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Ctrl-C and Ctrl-VCtrl-C and Ctrl-V X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >I just tried to duplicate part of a page with Ctr-C and Ctrl-V; the copy >contained none of the styles nor effects of the original. >How can I copy text with all frills included? It depends. Say I have text in document A in style 'Bob',I copy it to document B. Document B also has a style called 'Bob' but with different attributes. If I have 'rename styles' ticked in OPro text choices, then on copying the text and document B gets a new style 'Bob0' but retains its appearance. If the rename styles option is not ticked then the text retains its style 'Bob' but doesn't look the same - since 'Bob' in document B isn't the same as in document A. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:27 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149616 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:25 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988828031:20:14039:65; Wed, 02 May 2001 18:27:11 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2114873; 2 May 2001 18:26 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42IC3Z10254 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 19:12:03 +0100 Received: from mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.worldonline.com (mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.worldonline.com [212.74.112.71]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42IBw510250 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 19:11:58 +0100 Received: from ppp-1-74.5800-7.access.uk.worldonline.com ([62.64.158.74] helo=thosechurchills.screaming.net) by mk-smarthost-1.mail.uk.worldonline.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #3) id 14v16S-000Pix-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 02 May 2001 19:11:57 +0100 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 07:32:26 +0100 From: M P Churchill To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces Message-ID: References: <149440@pilling.demon.co.uk> <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk> <4a73d16663simon.young@argonet.co.uk> <4a7415d308gav@c In-Reply-To: <4a7415d308gav@crawford-print.co.uk> X-Organization: Home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.50 (MsgServe/1.50) (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In message <4a7415d308gav@crawford-print.co.uk> you wrote: > Another work-around is to create a Non-printing colour and apply that > colour to a character of your chosen width, such as a capital M or N. > > Some problems you have to watch for though, is the spell checker not > recognising the words, and any text that is exported will need to have > the characters replaced with spaces. > Is it not possible to have a font in which the space bar (or any other preferred character) gives a specific width character which has no lines in it? Then have that font installed as the default font used for the next character after pressing f11. If this would work, perhaps we need a font with a range of widths produced by pressing 1 to 9 for 9 different widths. Or does the 'system' detect any character with a width but no lines and either condense it to nothing or treat it as a space after all? (I may be revealing that I have almost no knowledge about font handling here!) -- Malcolm -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:29 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149617 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:27 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988828859:10:00347:65; Wed, 02 May 2001 18:40:59 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1109807; 2 May 2001 18:40 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42IV8M10553 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 19:31:08 +0100 Received: from typhoon.mail.pipex.net (typhoon.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.27]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f42IV3510549 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 19:31:03 +0100 Received: (qmail 8230 invoked from network); 2 May 2001 18:31:08 -0000 Received: from userev12.uk.uudial.com (HELO RiscPC) (62.188.17.195) by smtp-2.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 2 May 2001 18:31:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 08:22:38 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a743c6857steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <149514@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <149514@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In article <149514@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling wrote: [Snip] > I've had to repackage the product. So Ovation Pro now comes with an A5 > white PVC 3 ring binder in a slip case. (funnily enough just like the > Impression packaging). The binder contains the manual as on the CD > printed out. A neater package for the shelves above the machines, I think my bank account may become a little lighter. [Snip] > Anyway this is very nice, a bit more of the Beebug legacy disposed of, > and John van Vredenburch's hard work on the manual appears in print at > last. > If anyone wants a copy of the new manual then I've set a price of ukp 25 > all inclusive. This seems high to me, but its a heavy item and a small > print run. I think you tend to underprice things a little (which is nice for my pocket) and this is realistic - have you seen the price of manuals and technical texts recently? > For most people using the manual on the CD will be the best > thing. A lot of others don't like manuals or don't read them. or you > can print it yourself. There are a number of people around the csa newsgroups who have said they won't buy OP while the manual isn't available in printed form. If you haven't already done so, an announcement to the newsgroups about the printed manual version would appear to be a good idea. -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:39 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149621 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:37 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988833769:10:13670:64; Wed, 02 May 2001 20:02:49 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1125271; 2 May 2001 20:02 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42K1r610970 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 21:01:53 +0100 Received: from sand4.global.net.uk (sand4.global.net.uk [195.147.246.106]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42K1o510967 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 21:01:50 +0100 Received: from pfbs06a02.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.150.252] helo=ianadunn.global.co.uk) by sand4.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14v2n1-0000Eq-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 2 May 2001 21:00:00 +0100 Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 19:38:10 +0100 (BST) From: Dr Ian Dunn Subject: Menu not present To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Dr Ian Dunn X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Hey up Currently on 2.63 Somewhere in the proceess of moving to the CD , whilst loading the appln I now get a message something like " Menu not present " . Pressing enter allows the load the proceed ( seems about half way through ) and as far as I can tell all runs normally . Can I do anything to eradicate this message ? TIA Ian -- Dr Ian Dunn 010101 at last in the 21st Century Use RISC OS - You know it makes sense Derbyshire Area Risc Club (DARC) Derbyshire Area Risc Club (DARC) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:43 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149623 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:40 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988836575:10:16259:66; Wed, 02 May 2001 20:49:35 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1101060; 2 May 2001 20:48 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42KliV11245 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 21:47:44 +0100 Received: from warrior-outbound.servers.plus.net ([212.159.14.227]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f42Kle511242 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 21:47:40 +0100 Received: (qmail 17397 invoked from network); 2 May 2001 20:47:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tinshill.force9.net) (212.159.23.173) by warrior with SMTP; 2 May 2001 20:47:38 -0000 Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 20:18:09 +0100 (BST) From: Anthony Hilton Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces To: Ovation Pro List In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In on Tue 01 May, Bruce Goatly wrote: > In message <4a73d16663simon.young@argonet.co.uk> Simon Young wrote: > > > In article <3AEE6E8F.C76830BF@sharp.co.uk>, Graham Jones > > wrote: > > > Eh? But what if I want (and I quite often do) a fixed, normal length, > > > space in some justified text? I can think of several examples where it > > > is useful. > > > > Indeed, for example one uses a hard space to sepatate units from a > > number, so that the "word" of number and units remains unbroken. > > That's exactly right; we need to (be able to) distinguish between a > non-breaking space and a *fixed* space; the two are not necessarily the > same. I have a feeling that PageMaker 5 used to have options for en space and em space analogous to the en dash and em dash (or I may be dreaming as its nearly 4 years since I touched PM). Something like this would presumably suit Bruce and Graham - and probably others. Anthony Hilton -- ajh@tinshill.f9.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:46 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149624 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:45 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988834237:20:20583:64; Wed, 02 May 2001 20:10:37 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2019500; 2 May 2001 20:09 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42K9Ec11024 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 21:09:14 +0100 Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow035o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.121]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42K9A511021 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 21:09:10 +0100 Received: from goatly ([213.48.248.195]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 2 May 2001 20:11:13 +0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 20:16:26 +0100 From: Bruce Goatly To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <149606@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Perfect Page X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.61b User-Agent: POPstar/2.01b12 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In message <149606@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > >Could I ask you to follow your original suggestion and leave the proportional > >hard space in? > > (Alas(?)) there is no question of changing it. To do so would break lots of > documents. Well, on reflection I can see a place for both types of non-breaking space. The expanding space is sometimes useful for forcing words onto a new line (I know this can be done with Shift-Return, but in OPro the remaining bit of line isn't justified, unlike in Quark), and the fixed one has already been discussed. My investigations into Quark have revealed that it can produce both a non-breaking en space and a non-breaking half-en space, which is better than I'd thought. Bruce Goatly -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 2 22:29:52 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149626 for opro ; Wed, 02 May 101 22:29:49 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988838741:20:18027:64; Wed, 02 May 2001 21:25:41 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2017419; 2 May 2001 21:24 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42LORL11445 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 22:24:27 +0100 Received: from host1.kbnet.co.uk (host1.kbnet.co.uk [194.168.148.2]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42LON511442 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 22:24:24 +0100 Received: from kbnet.co.uk (dialup056.kbnet.co.uk [194.168.148.218]) by host1.kbnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA03532 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 22:20:14 +0100 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 21:15:00 +0100 From: Mike Williams To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Trapping? Message-ID: References: <4a74472474nedabell@enterprise.net> In-Reply-To: <4a74472474nedabell@enterprise.net> X-Organization: Akalat Publishing User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10d (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/3.60) POPstar/2.02 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by omega.barnet.ac.uk id f42LOO511443 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In message <4a74472474nedabell@enterprise.net> you wrote: > Ive been asked by a printer to add trapping to some PS files because he > cant guarantee registration. Ive looked at the manual and see the OP > approach is to Overprint. When the colour tint is less than 90% > overprinting can cause colour changes so in this case trapping could be a > "good thing". However looking through the mail archives I see others think > trapping as practiced by Qurk etc is "a very bad thing" :-) > > So has any one a work round when youve got say a mid yellow and a mid grey > meeting being printed on white paper? > It is possible but not easy. You need to define a colour which is the sun of the two colours in CMYK terms. Then arrange for a Overprint is very good when setting black text over any kind of backdrop as it stops knockput of the background. Despite it bei Mike Williams Akalat Publishing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 01:45:15 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149639 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 01:45:12 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988841451:10:18985:67; Wed, 02 May 2001 22:10:51 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1017827; 2 May 2001 22:09 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f42M9ad11679 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 2 May 2001 23:09:36 +0100 Received: from altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net (altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net [193.67.237.6]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f42M9W511676 for ; Wed, 2 May 2001 23:09:32 +0100 Received: from padua by altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net via 1Cust195.tnt32.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.158.195] with SMTP for id AAA26304 (8.8.8/1.3); Thu, 3 May 2001 00:09:36 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <00cd01c0d354$c1d2b8a0$4d01a8c0@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: "Ovation Pro" References: <149606@pilling.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 21:59:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R On Tue 01 May, David Pilling wrote: > > >Eh? But what if I want (and I quite often do) a fixed, normal length, space > >in some justified text? I can think of several examples where it is useful. > > I guess there are different ways of arguing as the postings above indicate. > > How about if I provided the following... > > A new entity in text, called 'space' which gives a fixed vertical and > horizontal movement. There would be a dialogue box to enter the size of the > shifts, a button to make it non-breaking and you could enter shifts either as > absolute (feet and inches) or as a fraction of the text size. Then there would > be a few more predefined macros {emspace} etc. to allow easy insertion > with a key press. > and: > >Could I ask you to follow your original suggestion and leave the proportional > >hard space in? > > (Alas(?)) there is no question of changing it. To do so would break lots of > documents. I like (almost) everything, that contributes to greater flexibility. Towards old documents and documents, created in other programs. Towards old documents (and new ones) the offered solution is very nice. However *I* prefer entering shifts as emspaces, based on a em square (design size) of 1000 em. PostScript fonts and the derived dimensions and measurements like width in the fonts are based on this design size. Or is this what you describe as: 'as a fraction of the text size' ? Abolutes like inches, centimeters, points are my second choice. Towards documents or text, created in other programs (!Edit) that only 'know' a fixed width for ASCII 160, there should be a find&replace solution to replace the not-intended, but imported proportional space into a fixed space. Or can this already be done? mrs. Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 13:23:28 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149649 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 13:23:26 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988871183:20:07813:64; Thu, 03 May 2001 06:26:23 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2107478; 3 May 2001 6:25 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f430gpE12218 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 01:42:51 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f430gj512204 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 01:42:45 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14v7Ck-0000oq-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 3 May 2001 00:42:50 +0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 22:34:45 GMT Message-Id: <149627@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Two separate questions - kernig & ? hard spaces X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >Is it not possible to have a font in which the space bar (or any other >preferred character) gives a specific width character which has no lines >in it? Yes. Not code 32 space (or code 160 non-breakng space) but you could have one or more blank characters that did the job. In fact I did wonder if fonts had such a thing. Wonder if Unicode spares a couple of its codes for the job. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 13:23:54 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149655 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 13:23:52 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988873333:20:27494:82; Thu, 03 May 2001 07:02:13 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2027068; 3 May 2001 7:01 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f430gtN12220 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 01:42:55 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f430gl512208 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 01:42:47 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14v7Cm-0000oq-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 3 May 2001 00:42:52 +0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 22:36:42 GMT Message-Id: <149629@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >I think you tend to underprice things a little (which is nice for my >pocket) and this is realistic - have you seen the price of manuals and >technical texts recently? I suppose so, but I think you've already paid for the program. (compare with Windows were nothing comes with a manual and you have to buy a book). Like Mr. Gates my business is not selling books, I am only offering this manual for the few people who really need it. >There are a number of people around the csa newsgroups who have said they >won't buy OP while the manual isn't available in printed form. Um well OPro has always shipped with a printed manual, just not necessarily an up to date one. >If you haven't already done so, an announcement to the newsgroups about the >printed manual version would appear to be a good idea. Oh do I have to. People will fall asleep. Actually the manual is a major piece of work. But not everyone likes reading them... >Experience at work and various home manuals (including the OP) suggests >wire bound is not up to the wear and tear and is difficult to re-enforce. 3 ring is less prone to this problem. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 13:24:06 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149658 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 13:24:04 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988870304:10:20930:69; Thu, 03 May 2001 06:11:44 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1020298; 3 May 2001 6:11 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f430gw112222 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 01:42:58 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f430go512215 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 01:42:50 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14v7Cp-0000oq-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 3 May 2001 00:42:55 +0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 22:47:59 GMT Message-Id: <149633@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >but in OPro the remaining bit of >line isn't justified, unlike in Quark), and the fixed one has already been Page 68 in the Reference Manual... Flush zone allows you to control justification of the last line in a paragraph Normally the last line of a justified paragraph is not justified. However, if the end of the line is near to the right margin, it may look better justified. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 13:24:08 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149660 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 13:24:07 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988872075:10:27423:78; Thu, 03 May 2001 06:41:15 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1026925; 3 May 2001 6:40 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f430gu612221 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 01:42:56 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f430gm512212 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 01:42:48 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14v7Co-0000oq-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 3 May 2001 00:42:54 +0000 Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 22:45:50 GMT Message-Id: <149631@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Menu not present X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Brings to mind... The applet Newframe in Others.Breakwell.Applets.NewFrame will cause an error "Menu does not exist" when Ovation Pro starts if it is installed. The solution is to get hold of version 1.01 of the applet. Or replace writeicon(newf_window,1,string_menu(newf_menu,0)); with menudefstring(newf_menu,0,4,s); writeicon(newf_window,1,s); in the main() function at the end of the Library.NewFrame script David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 13:24:10 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149661 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 13:24:09 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988886172:20:16499:107; Thu, 03 May 2001 10:36:12 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2120774; 3 May 2001 10:36 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f43AYkD14163 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 11:34:46 +0100 Received: from altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net (altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net [193.67.237.6]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f43AYg514160 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 11:34:42 +0100 Received: from padua by altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net via 1Cust4.tnt18.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.130.4] with SMTP for id MAA06953 (8.8.8/1.3); Thu, 3 May 2001 12:34:47 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <001901c0d3bc$db2d10d0$4d01a8c0@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: References: <149645@pilling.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 12:35:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R On Thu 03 May, David Pilling wrote: > >Towards old documents (and new ones) the offered solution is very nice. However > >*I* prefer entering shifts as emspaces, based on a em square (design size) of > >1000 em. PostScript fonts and the derived dimensions and measurements like width > >in the fonts are based on this design size. Or is this what you describe as: 'as > >a fraction of the text size'? > > Thats what I meant. We already use em's (for tracking). I know and I appreciate the possibility to use these units. > >Towards documents or text, created in other programs (!Edit) that only 'know' a > >fixed width for ASCII 160, there should be a find&replace solution to replace > >the not-intended, but imported proportional space into a fixed space. Or can > >this already be done? > > No it can't be done because as yet there is no fixed space. When I add it > you will be able to do this (um perhaps). (um perhaps)? Perhaps, a style/effect 'fixed space', that takes the width of the defined space (ASCII 32) of the currently used font to apply to the actually present -to big or to small- space (ASCII 32 or 160, non-broken or hard) ? Sadly, not every font has a width defined in ASCII 160. Not every font has the same width defined in ASCII 32 or 160. Not every font has (at least not visible) endash and emdash and also not always with the same ASCII codes ... Using absolutes or em units has one common disadvantage, when I *manually* have to enter the values. When I change fonts, font weights or sizes, the values don't get updated automatically. When I can't search them easily, I certainly can't replace or change them easily. When I have used a 'nice' e.g. 3 mm or 250 em in one font, it looks 'ugly' when I change the font to a condensed one, the fontsize to a larger or smaller one, or the weight from Medium to (Extra)Bold etc. Risc OS doesn't support Unicode fonts, so programs can't use fonts with more than 256 (minus the first 32) characters. All characters (and not always the sam e) are already defined in encodings to ensure switching fonts and PostScript printing can give the same result. Adding a 'new' char like 'fixed space' isn't a realistic option: at minimum all fonts on all computers should need updating. Creating a new font only containing widths seems to me 'impossible' to use. At minimum: how can I know which 'character' to use to get the width needed in the font in use? I am glad, I don't have to use 'justified' text :-) mrs. Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 13:24:13 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149662 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 13:24:10 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988872699:10:13832:64; Thu, 03 May 2001 06:51:39 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1119752; 3 May 2001 6:51 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f431Dq212305 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 02:13:52 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f431Dm512302 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 02:13:49 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14v7go-0002PO-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 3 May 2001 01:13:54 +0000 Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 02:05:33 GMT Message-Id: <149645@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >Towards old documents (and new ones) the offered solution is very nice. However >*I* prefer entering shifts as emspaces, based on a em square (design size) of >1000 em. PostScript fonts and the derived dimensions and measurements like width >in the fonts are based on this design size. Or is this what you describe as: 'as >a fraction of the text size'? Thats what I meant. We already use em's (for tracking). >Towards documents or text, created in other programs (!Edit) that only 'know' a >fixed width for ASCII 160, there should be a find&replace solution to replace >the not-intended, but imported proportional space into a fixed space. Or can >this already be done? No it can't be done because as yet there is no fixed space. When I add it you will be able to do this (um perhaps). David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 13:24:16 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149663 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 13:24:14 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988875341:10:18920:67; Thu, 03 May 2001 07:35:41 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1128529; 3 May 2001 7:34 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f437Y9x13542 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 08:34:09 +0100 Received: from mserv1e.vianw.co.uk (mserv1e.vianw.co.uk [195.102.240.97]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f437Y0513539 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 08:34:00 +0100 Received: from [194.119.179.59] (helo=Caslon.english.co.uk) by mserv1e.vianw.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #5) id 14vDci-0000bv-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 03 May 2001 08:34:04 +0100 Received: from Gill (10.0.1.1) by Caslon.english.co.uk; Thu, 03 May 2001 08:22:08 +0100 Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 08:22:17 +0100 From: David Graddol To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Trapping? Message-ID: <3a36c0744a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: The English Company (UK) Ltd X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by omega.barnet.ac.uk id f437Y5513540 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Mike Williams wrote: > In message <4a74472474nedabell@enterprise.net> you wrote: > > > Ive been asked by a printer to add trapping to some PS files because he > > cant guarantee registration. Ive looked at the manual and see the OP > > approach is to Overprint. When the colour tint is less than 90% > > overprinting can cause colour changes so in this case trapping could be a > > "good thing". However looking through the mail archives I see others think > > trapping as practiced by Qurk etc is "a very bad thing" :-) > > > > So has any one a work round when youve got say a mid yellow and a mid grey > > meeting being printed on white paper? > > > It is possible but not easy. You need to define a colour which is the sun of the two colours in CMYK terms. Then arrange for > I second what Mike Williams says about trapping: it is possible to do by handcrafting in simple cases but it is impracticable in more complex cases. Within the pre-press industry, there is a move away from managing trapping at the 'application end' (e.g. Quark) as workflows move from separated to composite. Trapping now often occurs further down the line, at the RIP, for example. However smaller printers/bureaus will still expect trapping to be in place and I guess that is the situation you have. When Cerilica announced Vantage I asked whether it would handle trapping. I recall the answer was 'no' and I still don't see trapping listed as a feature. David -- The English Company (UK) Ltd http://www.english.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 13:24:23 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149665 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 13:24:21 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988879304:10:10784:67; Thu, 03 May 2001 08:41:44 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1010614; 3 May 2001 8:41 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f438e8t13814 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 09:40:08 +0100 Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow029o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.123]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f438e4513811 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 09:40:04 +0100 Received: from goatly ([213.48.249.232]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Thu, 3 May 2001 09:42:08 +0100 Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 09:17:18 +0100 From: Bruce Goatly To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <149633@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Perfect Page X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.61b User-Agent: POPstar/2.01b12 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In message <149633@pilling.demon.co.uk> DP wrote: > >but in OPro the remaining bit of > >line isn't justified, unlike in Quark), and the fixed one has already been > > Page 68 in the Reference Manual... Thanks, I was sure it would be in there... > Flush zone allows you to control justification of the last line in a > paragraph Normally the last line of a justified paragraph is not justified. > However, if the end of the line is near to the right margin, it may look > better justified. What I was describing, though, was forcing text *within* a paragraph to start a new line. So the previous line wouldn't be the end of a paragraph and ought therefore to be justified, whatever the size of the flush zone. I'll have to check again on Quark's behaviour here, but I'm fairly sure it does as I described, illogical though it may seem. It really depends on what the purpose of Shift-Return is perceived to be, whether it be "Continue with current paragraph but start a new line" or "Finish the previous line prematurely and start a new line". The fact that OPro and Quark behave (I think) differently isn't cause for criticism if their underlying philosophies are different! So I'm not advocating a change to OPro in its behaviour in this respect, because an expanding non-breaking space can be used for the same purpose, only its effect is predictable regardless of justification setting. My previous comment was intended to add a "fine by me!" response to David's remark that such spaces wouldn't be removable from the coding of OPro. Sorry for gratuitously introducing the red herring about Shift-Return. Bruce Goatly -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 17:32:38 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149687 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 17:32:37 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988903592:20:00786:66; Thu, 03 May 2001 15:26:32 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2114850; 3 May 2001 15:25 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f43F6t214941 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 16:06:55 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f43F6p514938 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 16:06:51 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14vKgy-000I1w-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 3 May 2001 15:06:56 +0000 Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 13:31:46 GMT Message-Id: <149671@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >Risc OS doesn't support Unicode fonts Unless you have the the version of the font manager which does. And I said it with an eye to Windows too. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 17:32:47 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149690 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 17:32:45 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988904497:20:24517:64; Thu, 03 May 2001 15:41:37 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2128110; 3 May 2001 15:41 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f43F6oR14936 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 16:06:50 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f43F6k514933 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 16:06:46 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14vKgr-000I1w-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 3 May 2001 15:06:50 +0000 Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 13:28:42 GMT Message-Id: <149669@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Ctrl-C and Ctrl-VCtrl-C and Ctrl-V X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >Sorry, I didn't express myself clearly; what I was trying to do was copy part of >the text from one chapter into another chapter of the SAME document. >Isn't using the Control keys an acceptable method there? Of course. What you say should work, and I can't see why it wouldn't. Perhaps my contrived example may show that things are not always simple. Maybe you could email me privately a small example. And could you please post to the list from the address you're subscribed from. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 17:32:50 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149691 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 17:32:48 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988905372:20:17214:80; Thu, 03 May 2001 15:56:12 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2016761; 3 May 2001 15:55 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f43F6kh14931 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 16:06:46 +0100 Received: from bonn.shuttle.de (bonn.shuttle.de [194.95.249.247]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4382r513699 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 09:02:53 +0100 Received: by bonn.shuttle.de (Postfix, from userid 10) id 133AC17DCB; Thu, 3 May 2001 10:02:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hmg-koeln.de by Arktur.hmanngym.k.nw.schule.de with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m12mrb8-000fHHC; Wed, 3 May 100 07:21 MET DST Message-ID: <3AF0DC34.2DD8B5C7@hmg-koeln.de> Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 06:19:00 +0200 From: Jochen Konietzko Organization: Heinrich-Mann-Gymnasium X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW0322b (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Ctrl-C and Ctrl-VCtrl-C and Ctrl-V References: <149604@pilling.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro David Pilling schrieb: > >I just tried to duplicate part of a page with Ctr-C and Ctrl-V; the copy > >contained none of the styles nor effects of the original. > >How can I copy text with all frills included? > > It depends. Say I have text in document A in style 'Bob', I copy it > to document B. Document B also has a style called 'Bob' but with different > attributes. If I have 'rename styles' ticked in OPro text choices, then > on copying the text and document B gets a new style 'Bob0' but retains > its appearance. > > If the rename styles option is not ticked then the text retains its style 'Bob' > but doesn't look the same - since 'Bob' in document B isn't the same as in > document A. > > David Pilling Sorry, I didn't express myself clearly; what I was trying to do was copy part of the text from one chapter into another chapter of the SAME document. Isn't using the Control keys an acceptable method there? Cheers, Jochen Konietzko -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 21:27:40 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149699 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 21:27:38 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988910466:10:04172:65; Thu, 03 May 2001 17:21:06 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1003553; 3 May 2001 17:20 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f43HJpT15656 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 18:19:51 +0100 Received: from inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (root@[193.114.241.3]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f43HJh515653 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 18:19:43 +0100 Received: from sharp.co.uk (aardog.sle.sharp.co.uk [192.16.16.173]) by inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04395 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 18:16:44 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3AF1933E.35B414AC@sharp.co.uk> Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 18:19:58 +0100 From: Graham Jones Organization: Sharp Laboratories of Europe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ovation Pro List Subject: New applet - Japanese text input and kanji conversion Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro I've just uploaded a new applet for Ovation Pro which is able to provide Japanese kana text entry and also to display text in JIS encoding using the real kanji characters. The applet uses the Wadalab kanji committee fonts to provide the characters, these have been converted to RISC OS outline fonts using T1toFont and FontFiend. This very definitely early test grade software - I have made use of the fonts and applets, but it hasn't had a hard bashing yet. At the moment, due to space limitation I havne't put up the full fonts set (41 Mb in total) so only the kana text entry is possible. The other fonts are ready and I'll sort out where to put them when I have some more time spare. I suggest anybody interested should go to http://www.4ozNuff.org.uk and download what you find there. Have a play and let me know how you get on, how the fonts look etc. I'm sure the applet can be improved. Graham. PS. I am about to go away for a week, so I might not get a chance to reply to comments for that period. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 21:27:47 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149703 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 21:27:45 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988912661:10:01193:66; Thu, 03 May 2001 17:57:41 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1117151; 3 May 2001 17:57 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f43HuaL15871 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 18:56:36 +0100 Received: from mailout04.sul.t-online.com (mailout04.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.18]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f43HuS515868 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 18:56:29 +0100 Received: from fwd04.sul.t-online.com by mailout04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14vNL3-00036J-03; Thu, 03 May 2001 19:56:29 +0200 Received: from veni (520042741018-0001@[217.0.115.127]) by fmrl04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14vNLH-1ZO3uKC; Thu, 3 May 2001 19:56:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Bellon To: Ovation Pro List Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 19:55:39 +0200 Subject: Re: New applet - Japanese text input and kanji conversion Message-ID: <4a74fa32cesbellon@sbellon.de> In-Reply-To: <3AF1933E.35B414AC@sharp.co.uk> References: <3AF1933E.35B414AC@sharp.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 Content-Type: text/plain X-Sender: 520042741018-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <3AF1933E.35B414AC@sharp.co.uk>, Graham Jones wrote: [snip] > This very definitely early test grade software - I have made use of > the fonts and applets, but it hasn't had a hard bashing yet. Cool, at least it copes with all things I've thrown at it yet. Mind you, I've learnt Japanese six years ago and didn't use it since then, so I forgot lots of it. But the font looks nice and the conversion works really well as far as I can tell. :-) Greetings, Stefan. -- Stefan Bellon * * PGP 2.6 and GnuPG (OpenPGP) keys available from my home page Data file? No thanks, I prefer to date people -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 21:27:47 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149704 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 21:27:45 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988916153:20:05183:64; Thu, 03 May 2001 18:55:53 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2005005; 3 May 2001 18:55 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f43IoDh16121 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 19:50:13 +0100 Received: from sand6.global.net.uk.noc.gxn.net (sand6.global.net.uk [195.147.246.105]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f43Io9516117 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 19:50:09 +0100 Received: from pe4s06a02.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.150.229] helo=ianadunn.global.co.uk) by sand6.global.net.uk.noc.gxn.net with smtp (Exim 3.03 #1) id 14kAQL-0004UV-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 20:55:39 +0100 Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 18:17:59 +0100 (BST) From: Dr Ian Dunn Subject: Re: Menu not present To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <149631@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Dr Ian Dunn X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In on Wed 02 May, David Pilling wrote: > > Brings to mind... > > > The applet Newframe in Others.Breakwell.Applets.NewFrame will cause an > error "Menu does not exist" when Ovation Pro starts if it is installed. > The solution is to get hold of version 1.01 of the applet. > > Or replace > snip > > > > David Pilling that was it , uninstalling new frame 1.0 has resolved it for the moment thank you kind Sir Ian -- Dr Ian Dunn 010101 at last in the 21st Century Use RISC OS - You know it makes sense Derbyshire Area Risc Club (DARC) Derbyshire Area Risc Club (DARC) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 3 21:28:07 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149709 for opro ; Thu, 03 May 101 21:28:05 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988920446:20:27209:67; Thu, 03 May 2001 20:07:26 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2115219; 3 May 2001 20:06 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f43K5tT16497 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 3 May 2001 21:05:55 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f43K5p516494 for ; Thu, 3 May 2001 21:05:51 +0100 Received: from [62.188.142.104] (helo=62.188.142.104) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14vPK9-0008Oa-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 03 May 2001 21:03:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Mr R O Davis To: Ovation Pro List Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 21:05:41 +0100 Subject: Re: New applet - Japanese text input and kanji conversion Message-ID: <4a75061a82rod@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a74fa32cesbellon@sbellon.de> References: <4a74fa32cesbellon@sbellon.de> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02c (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Ihave tried to load this exciting new applet but meet a problem. I have put Kanji into the Applets directory but when loading OvationPro I get an error message: unknown identifier refreshbutton at line 325 in ....library.zKanji and the Applet is not loaded so I cannot experiment further. What am I doing wrong? -- /\ _ \ |==============| / / / \__\ |===================| | Rodger Davis | /_/ / / / \ | rod@argonet.co.uk | |==============| / \_/\_/ /___) |===================| -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 4 13:40:57 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149731 for opro ; Fri, 04 May 101 13:40:54 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988956700:10:08717:70; Fri, 04 May 2001 06:11:40 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1112333; 4 May 2001 6:10 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f443Cfn17789 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 4 May 2001 04:12:41 +0100 Received: from smtp02.fields.gol.com (smtp02.fields.gol.com [203.216.5.132]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f443Ca517786 for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 04:12:36 +0100 Received: from tc-1-2-182.shinjuku.gol.ne.jp ([203.216.9.182] helo=plattir.gol.com) by smtp02.fields.gol.com with smtp (Magnetic Fields) id 14vW1I-0006AE-00 for ; Fri, 04 May 2001 12:12:41 +0900 Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 12:15:02 +0000 (GMT) From: "Ian R. Platt" Subject: Re: New applet - Japanese text input and kanji conversion To: Ovation Pro List In-Reply-To: <3AF1933E.35B414AC@sharp.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Thu 03 May, Graham Jones wrote: > I've just uploaded a new applet for Ovation Pro which is able to provide > Japanese kana text entry and also to display text in JIS encoding using the > real kanji characters. > The applet uses the Wadalab kanji committee fonts to provide the characters, > these have been converted to RISC OS outline fonts using T1toFont and > FontFiend. > Yup, kana/hiragana look OK (interesting to see some no longer in use: must be a Heian scholar out there somewhere in t.u-tokyo.ac.jp :-) ) Anyone know where there's a downloadable keyboard grid so that I can make up & print out a graphic to remind me where various things are? TIA Ian P. -- Ian Platt Risc OS4 + StrongARM = UK technology. Continuing to 'think differently':-) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 4 13:40:57 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149732 for opro ; Fri, 04 May 101 13:40:54 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988958822:20:09978:64; Fri, 04 May 2001 06:47:02 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2009061; 4 May 2001 6:46 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f446jZB18481 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 4 May 2001 07:45:35 +0100 Received: from monsoon.mail.pipex.net (monsoon.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f446jW518478 for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 07:45:32 +0100 Received: (qmail 29445 invoked from network); 4 May 2001 06:45:37 -0000 Received: from userac04.test-uk.uudial.com (HELO gtwywc97@ukgateway.net) (62.188.193.203) by smtp-1.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 4 May 2001 06:45:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Dawson To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 19:04:58 +0100 Subject: Loading filetypes Message-ID: <4a74fb0d0arayd@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 Organization: MagRay Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Is it possible to get Ovation Pro to load different filetypes and treat them as if they are text? I get a lot of PC files text type without extensions, which usually show as type DOS. Unfortunately OP won't load them with out them first being saved somewhere and retyped to text. It would be useful if I could just drop them into the OP window. Cheers, Ray D -- ..===================================. | M a g R a y Document Services | Ray Dawson Tel: 020 8864 7208 | the audio and braille specialists | rayd@argonet.co.uk '===================================' http://www.magray.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 4 13:41:02 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149734 for opro ; Fri, 04 May 101 13:40:59 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988962963:20:02189:103; Fri, 04 May 2001 07:56:03 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2001481; 4 May 2001 7:54 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f447sa418776 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 4 May 2001 08:54:36 +0100 Received: from inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (root@[193.114.241.3]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f447sW518773 for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 08:54:33 +0100 Received: from sharp.co.uk (aardog.sle.sharp.co.uk [192.16.16.173]) by inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA11595 for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 08:51:40 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3AF2604F.2832D115@sharp.co.uk> Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 08:54:55 +0100 From: Graham Jones Organization: Sharp Laboratories of Europe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: New applet - Japanese text input and kanji conversion References: <4a74fa32cesbellon@sbellon.de> <4a75061a82rod@argonet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Mr R O Davis wrote: > > Ihave tried to load this exciting new applet but meet a > problem. > > I have put Kanji into the Applets directory but when loading > OvationPro I get an error message: Well, there are two possibilities (probably more). First question: which version of Ovation Pro are you using? David put a fix into 2.63 for a problem to do with DDL and fonts which was causing me a problem (not related to yours) so I have only tested on 2.63. I'm not sure how long "refreshbutton" has been in the script language. Secondly I may have used a function defined by another applet and not a basic part of the script language, but I think I am safe there having just checked the manual. Final desparation question - you did put the !Kanji application into Applets, not the Kanji archive? Graham. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 4 13:41:06 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149736 for opro ; Fri, 04 May 101 13:41:03 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988968464:20:04338:65; Fri, 04 May 2001 09:27:44 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2119308; 4 May 2001 9:26 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f449Pjm19162 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 4 May 2001 10:25:45 +0100 Received: from mail12.svr.pol.co.uk (mail12.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.215]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f449Pf519159 for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 10:25:41 +0100 Received: from modem-94.massachusetts.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.72.94] helo=jaycee) by mail12.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14vbqM-00052B-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 04 May 2001 10:25:47 +0100 Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 10:22:43 GMT From: JayCee To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: RTF Message-ID: <4b9154754a.JayCee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.50 (MsgServe/1.50) (RISC-OS/4.03) POPstar/2.02 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Is it possible to export OPro files as RTF? I need to email a file to a PC user and as it includes strike out and coloured text areas I was hoping to be able to convert it to a Word file without losing the formatting or effects - any suggestions.... -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 4 13:41:44 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149743 for opro ; Fri, 04 May 101 13:41:43 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988979698:10:08595:71; Fri, 04 May 2001 12:34:58 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1008365; 4 May 2001 12:34 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f44CXX519815 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 4 May 2001 13:33:33 +0100 Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f44CXT519812 for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 13:33:29 +0100 Received: from localhost ([62.252.138.195]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010504123334.RKWT283.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@localhost> for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 13:33:34 +0100 Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 13:32:41 +0100 From: To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: RTF Message-ID: <677760754a.colin@cstage.argonet.co.uk> References: <4b9154754a.JayCee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4b9154754a.JayCee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> X-Organization: Centre Stage User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10 (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In message <4b9154754a.JayCee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> JayCee wrote: > Is it possible to export OPro files as RTF? > David Breakwell has written an RTF exporter, !MakeRTF, which integrates seamlessly into OPro and put a third radio button on the 'save as' window - you can get it from him if you email him direct ie it's not on the resources site, at davidb@argonet.co.uk Hope this helps -- Colin Carnegie colinc@argonet.co.uk www.argonet.co.uk/users/cstage -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 4 17:42:54 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149756 for opro ; Fri, 04 May 101 17:42:51 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988983941:20:13575:64; Fri, 04 May 2001 13:45:41 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2112351; 4 May 2001 13:44 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f44Dh5Z20201 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 4 May 2001 14:43:05 +0100 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk (mail1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.18]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f44Dh1520197 for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 14:43:01 +0100 Received: from modem-163.oregon.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.88.163] helo=jaycee) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14vfrN-0005yt-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 04 May 2001 14:43:06 +0100 Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 14:41:24 GMT From: JayCee To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: RTF Message-ID: References: <4b9154754a.JayCee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> <677760754a.colin@cstage.argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <677760754a.colin@cstage.argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.50 (MsgServe/1.50) (RISC-OS/4.03) POPstar/2.02 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In message <677760754a.colin@cstage.argonet.co.uk> you wrote: > > > Is it possible to export OPro files as RTF? > > > David Breakwell has written an RTF exporter, !MakeRTF, which integrates > seamlessly into OPro and put a third radio button on the 'save as' window - > you can get it from him if you email him direct ie it's not on the > resources site, at davidb@argonet.co.uk > > Hope this helps Thanks Colin, I have mailed David, looks like just what I want. JayCee -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 4 17:42:54 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149757 for opro ; Fri, 04 May 101 17:42:51 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988982366:10:25476:65; Fri, 04 May 2001 13:19:26 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1025076; 4 May 2001 13:18 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f44DIZL20017 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 4 May 2001 14:18:35 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f44DIV520014 for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 14:18:31 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14vfTh-000Nkd-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 4 May 2001 13:18:37 +0000 Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 14:10:58 GMT Message-Id: <149752@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Loading filetypes X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >Is it possible to get Ovation Pro to load different filetypes and treat >them as if they are text? Yes, thats how it works... >as type DOS. Unfortunately OP won't load them with out them first being >saved somewhere and retyped to text. It would be useful if I could just >drop them into the OP window. I just created a DOS file in Edit, dragged it into OPro, you do get a warning message asking if you want to import something which is not text. Why might your copy work in a different way? Some of the transloaders are a bit too enthusiastic and will grab most types of file (and often crash). Or it could be you've fiddled with the impex() functions to twiddle what types OPro will load. I suspect one could use the script language to copy the text importer for another type. So that you could force DOS files to be loaded as text. (looks in wirebound script manual, ah yes page 98). David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 4 17:42:59 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149758 for opro ; Fri, 04 May 101 17:42:55 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988986696:20:10655:78; Fri, 04 May 2001 14:31:36 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2106908; 4 May 2001 14:30 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f44ETuV20450 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 4 May 2001 15:29:56 +0100 Received: from thick.mail.pipex.net (thick.mail.pipex.net [158.43.192.95]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f44ETm520447 for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 15:29:48 +0100 Received: (qmail 8828 invoked from network); 4 May 2001 14:29:36 -0000 Received: from userac47.test-uk.uudial.com (HELO loopback) (62.188.193.246) by smtp-3.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 4 May 2001 14:29:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 14:49:54 +0100 Subject: Re: Loading filetypes Message-ID: <4a75678902dfs@ukgateway.net> In-Reply-To: <149752@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <149752@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.04-pre1 Content-Type: text/plain X-Editor: Zap 1.44 (14 Feb 2000) [TEST 1], ZapEmail 0.25 (18 Mar 2000) test-2 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Ray Dawson wrote: In article <149752@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling wrote: > >Is it possible to get Ovation Pro to load different filetypes and treat > >them as if they are text? > Yes, thats how it works... > >as type DOS. Unfortunately OP won't load them with out them first being > >saved somewhere and retyped to text. It would be useful if I could just > >drop them into the OP window. > I just created a DOS file in Edit, dragged it into OPro, you do get a > warning message asking if you want to import something which is not text. > Why might your copy work in a different way? Hi Ray, Works okay here on 2.63. Open an OvPro window, drop DOS file into that window... An "are you sure window..." appears [Yes] and the DOS text file loads okay in the OvPro window. For silliness sake I took a Word Doc file re-filetyped it to DOS and dropped that into the OvPro window, after the usual "Are you sure" it loaded okay... obviously not much of it was understandable, but it went in without problems. The only thing that comes to mind here... You do have to drop the file into an open OvPro window. Cheers Dave S -- _______________________________________________________________________ Dave Symes... dfs@ukgateway.net Also... df@dafs.freeserve.co.uk .. or... dave@triffid.co.uk http://www.dfs.ukgateway.net -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 4 17:43:03 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149760 for opro ; Fri, 04 May 101 17:43:01 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988988916:10:27952:64; Fri, 04 May 2001 15:08:36 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1102069; 4 May 2001 15:08 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f44F73Y20677 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 4 May 2001 16:07:03 +0100 Received: from mail5.svr.pol.co.uk (mail5.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f44F6w520673 for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 16:06:58 +0100 Received: from modem-163.beryllium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.3.163] helo=weatherpost.fsnet.co.uk) by mail5.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14vhAd-0004JQ-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 04 May 2001 16:07:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ned Abell To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 10:03:59 +0100 Subject: Re: Trapping? Message-ID: <4a754d5bd4ned@weatherpost.fsnet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <3a36c0744a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> References: <3a36c0744a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 03 May, David Graddol wrote: > Mike Williams wrote: > > In message <4a74472474nedabell@enterprise.net> I wrote: > > > > > Ive been asked by a printer to add trapping to some PS files because > > > he cant guarantee registration. [snip] > > > > > It is possible but not easy. You need to define a colour which is the > > sun of the two colours in CMYK terms. Then arrange for a thin, say > > 0.25pt, border between the two colours to be in the composite colour. > > With text it is easier to do in ArtWorks by setting the line colour of > > any text to be the composite colour. So a mid yellow might be 70% Y, a > > mid grey 50% black, the composite colour would be 70% yellow, 50% > > black. I have done it, it does work, but very time consuming for other > > than occasional use. > > > I second what Mike Williams says about trapping: it is possible > to do by handcrafting in simple cases but it is impracticable in > more complex cases. [snip] Many thanks for the positive responses. Ive now tried to simplify layout and use overprinting with Artworks generated text. I havnt seen the results yet but the printer says hes happy! -- besters.. Ned === -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 4 21:58:17 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149764 for opro ; Fri, 04 May 101 21:58:14 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988995373:20:11227:64; Fri, 04 May 2001 16:56:13 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2113775; 4 May 2001 16:56 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f44GeZT21101 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 4 May 2001 17:40:35 +0100 Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow028o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.124]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f446Q4518338 for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 07:26:04 +0100 Received: from bgba01526.blueyonder.co.uk ([213.48.108.157]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Fri, 4 May 2001 07:28:05 +0100 Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 07:41:27 +0100 (BST) From: Barry Gray Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <3AEFC918.6E96B8EA@sharp.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Barry Gray E-mail: barrygray@blueyonder.co.uk X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Wed 02 May, Graham Jones wrote: > By "normal" length, I mean a space of the length you get in non-justified > text for the font you are using. As others have noted they are needed for > things like units after a measurement. I appreciate there is a difference > between a non-breaking space and a fixed length space, but my experience > with other software is that these have usually been made to be one and the > same. I was always taught (and I myself teach) that in SI there is no space between the quantity and the unit, for example 9m not 9 m, although of course nine metres but not usually 9 metres and never nine m. There is more about this on my web site - go to Main Index/ Tutoring/ SI and its units. But I do agree with the distinction between a non-breaking and a fixed-length space even if this was not a good example - in a distinguished recent History publication we had Henry at the bottom of one page and VIII on a line by itself on a new page.... (or perhaps this is more about widows and orphans, which IMHO OP does not handle particularly well). -- Barry Gray http://www.barrygray.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 4 21:58:24 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149769 for opro ; Fri, 04 May 101 21:58:21 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988996066:20:05403:65; Fri, 04 May 2001 17:07:46 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2005192; 4 May 2001 17:07 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f44H6w821273 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 4 May 2001 18:06:58 +0100 Received: from sand2.global.net.uk (sand2.global.net.uk [195.147.246.100]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f44H6t521270 for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 18:06:55 +0100 Received: from p9as01a07.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.225.155] helo=ianadunn.global.co.uk) by sand2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14vj2i-0000YW-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 04 May 2001 18:07:01 +0100 Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 22:34:30 +0100 (BST) From: Dr Ian Dunn Subject: Compo PCA and OP To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Dr Ian Dunn X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Hey up I have just rediscovered the PCA part of Compo and on reading the manual I think I should be able to use them with OP . How please ? Ian -- Dr Ian Dunn 010101 at last in the 21st Century Use RISC OS - You know it makes sense Derbyshire Area Risc Club (DARC) Derbyshire Area Risc Club (DARC) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 4 21:58:24 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149768 for opro ; Fri, 04 May 101 21:58:21 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 988997427:10:00078:65; Fri, 04 May 2001 17:30:27 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1029878; 4 May 2001 17:30 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f44H8N621299 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 4 May 2001 18:08:23 +0100 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk (mail2.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.210]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f44H8I521296 for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 18:08:19 +0100 Received: from modem-30.mercury.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.59.158] helo=kerslakej2.freeserve.co.uk) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14vj42-0006X8-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 04 May 2001 18:08:23 +0100 Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 18:56:48 +0100 (BST) From: John Percy Kerslake Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <149629@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R On Wed 02 May, David Pilling wrote: > > > >Experience at work and various home manuals (including the OP) suggests > >wire bound is not up to the wear and tear and is difficult to re-enforce. > > 3 ring is less prone to this problem. > > > David Pilling > Also with the 3 ring version could be kept up to date by e mailing replacement sections as ovation files for people to print out. -- J.P. Kerslake B.Sc., F.B.I.S. Pager 07626 - 235878 e-mail address:- Work = kerslake@sees.bangor.ac.uk Home = johnpercy@kerslakej2.freeserve.co.uk, Dyslexia Rules KO. RiscStation 64 meg 50 ns RAM. 9G HD, Ant INS. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 4 21:58:42 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149777 for opro ; Fri, 04 May 101 21:58:40 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989008197:20:04006:64; Fri, 04 May 2001 20:29:57 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2104382; 4 May 2001 20:28 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f44KPvS22080 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 4 May 2001 21:25:57 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f44KPs522077 for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 21:25:54 +0100 Received: from [62.188.143.151] (helo=62.188.143.151) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14vm71-0007bE-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 04 May 2001 21:23:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Mr R O Davis To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 21:26:00 +0100 Subject: Re: New applet - Japanese text input and kanji conversion Message-ID: <4a758bccb2rod@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <3AF2604F.2832D115@sharp.co.uk> References: <4a74fa32cesbellon@sbellon.de> <4a75061a82rod@argonet.co.uk> <3AF2604F.2832D115@sharp.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02c (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <3AF2604F.2832D115@sharp.co.uk>, Graham Jones wrote: > Mr R O Davis wrote: > > > > Ihave tried to load this exciting new applet but meet a > > problem. > Well, there are two possibilities (probably more). First question: which > version of Ovation Pro are you using? David put a fix into 2.63 for a > problem to do with DDL and fonts which was causing me a problem (not > related to yours) so I have only tested on 2.63. I'm not sure how long > "refreshbutton" has been in the script language. Yes, that is part of the problem. I have tried it out with 2.60 and I don't get the error message. So the Aplet gets loaded and appears on the Applets menu. Alas the convert part of the menu is greyed out so that I can't do any converting though the fonts are loaded and if I select them in the normal OvPro way I get Hiragana or Katakana but one character at a time... I guess what is supposed to happen is that if I type ka ki ku ke ko I'm supposed to get four characters...? Am I still doing something wrong? -- /\ _ \ |==============| / / / \__\ |===================| | Rodger Davis | /_/ / / / \ | rod@argonet.co.uk | |==============| / \_/\_/ /___) |===================| -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 5 02:15:30 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149793 for opro ; Sat, 05 May 101 02:15:28 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989011362:10:14884:79; Fri, 04 May 2001 21:22:42 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1014378; 4 May 2001 21:22 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f44LLbp22293 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 4 May 2001 22:21:37 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f44LLX522290 for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 22:21:33 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14vn18-000JUU-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 4 May 2001 21:21:38 +0000 Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 22:02:33 GMT Message-Id: <149779@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Compo PCA and OP X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Install the OPCA applet... David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 5 02:15:36 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149796 for opro ; Sat, 05 May 101 02:15:33 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989013397:20:22514:64; Fri, 04 May 2001 21:56:37 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2125023; 4 May 2001 21:55 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f44LMJV22307 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 4 May 2001 22:22:19 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f44LME522303 for ; Fri, 4 May 2001 22:22:14 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14vn1o-000JUU-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 4 May 2001 21:22:20 +0000 Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 22:08:14 GMT Message-Id: <149787@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >Also with the 3 ring version could be kept up to date by e mailing >replacement sections as ovation files for people to print out. I'm hoping to make a fortune selling 3 hole punches... David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 5 14:17:13 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149802 for opro ; Sat, 05 May 101 14:17:11 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989050259:10:25562:69; Sat, 05 May 2001 08:10:59 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1025157; 5 May 2001 8:10 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4581In23999 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 5 May 2001 09:01:18 +0100 Received: from monsoon.mail.pipex.net (monsoon.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4581D523992 for ; Sat, 5 May 2001 09:01:13 +0100 Received: (qmail 25849 invoked from network); 5 May 2001 08:01:18 -0000 Received: from usercb47.uk.uudial.com (HELO RiscPC) (62.188.150.214) by smtp-1.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 5 May 2001 08:01:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 20:34:39 +0100 Subject: Re: Loading filetypes Message-ID: <4a758718f8steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a75678902dfs@ukgateway.net> References: <149752@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a75678902dfs@ukgateway.net> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a75678902dfs@ukgateway.net>, Dave Symes wrote: > For silliness sake I took a Word Doc file re-filetyped it to DOS and > dropped that into the OvPro window, after the usual "Are you sure" it > loaded okay... obviously not much of it was understandable, Sounds like a normal Word document ;-) -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 5 14:17:13 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149801 for opro ; Sat, 05 May 101 14:17:10 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989049738:20:20845:64; Sat, 05 May 2001 08:02:18 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2125665; 5 May 2001 8:02 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4581JR24000 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 5 May 2001 09:01:19 +0100 Received: from monsoon.mail.pipex.net (monsoon.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4581E523996 for ; Sat, 5 May 2001 09:01:14 +0100 Received: (qmail 25852 invoked from network); 5 May 2001 08:01:20 -0000 Received: from usercb47.uk.uudial.com (HELO RiscPC) (62.188.150.214) by smtp-1.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 5 May 2001 08:01:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 20:36:45 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a75874a3csteve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <149629@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In article , John Percy Kerslake wrote: > On Wed 02 May, David Pilling wrote: > > >Experience at work and various home manuals (including the OP) > > >suggests wire bound is not up to the wear and tear and is difficult > > >to re-enforce. > > 3 ring is less prone to this problem. > Also with the 3 ring version could be kept up to date by e mailing > replacement sections as ovation files for people to print out. and the bits you haven't replaced can be re-enforced with those little sticky circles... ....keep going Davids backing into a corner ;) -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 5 14:17:28 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149809 for opro ; Sat, 05 May 101 14:17:27 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989061229:10:15541:64; Sat, 05 May 2001 11:13:49 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1116159; 5 May 2001 11:13 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f45BBjt24689 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 5 May 2001 12:11:45 +0100 Received: from mailout01.sul.t-online.com (mailout01.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.80]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f45BBd524685 for ; Sat, 5 May 2001 12:11:40 +0100 Received: from fwd05.sul.t-online.com by mailout01.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14vzyR-0007zg-09; Sat, 05 May 2001 13:11:43 +0200 Received: from veni (520042741018-0001@[217.0.115.160]) by fmrl05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14vzyd-0HehhQC; Sat, 5 May 2001 13:11:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Bellon To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 13:11:32 +0200 Subject: ImpDoc to OvnPro converter? Message-ID: <4a75dcdf18sbellon@sbellon.de> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 Content-Type: text/plain X-Sender: 520042741018-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Hi! Now that we have an Impression import filter we can convert single ImpDoc files to OvnPro ones. But has anybody written either an independent program or an applet which lets you convert whole directories of ImpDoc files to OvnPro ones? TIA. Greetings, Stefan. -- Stefan Bellon * * PGP 2.6 and GnuPG (OpenPGP) keys available from my home page We must proactively pursue enterprise-wide catalysts for change in order to efficiently foster long-term high-impact methods of empowerment to meet our deadlines. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 5 16:36:57 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149826 for opro ; Sat, 05 May 101 16:36:53 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989070495:20:21326:67; Sat, 05 May 2001 13:48:15 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2021059; 5 May 2001 13:47 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f45Dl2K25208 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 5 May 2001 14:47:02 +0100 Received: from smtp01.fields.gol.com (smtp01.fields.gol.com [203.216.5.131]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f45Dkv525205 for ; Sat, 5 May 2001 14:46:57 +0100 Received: from tc-1-2-158.shinjuku.gol.ne.jp ([203.216.9.158] helo=plattir.gol.com) by smtp01.fields.gol.com with smtp (Magnetic Fields) id 14w2Oj-0004CP-00 for ; Sat, 05 May 2001 22:47:01 +0900 Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 22:14:55 +0000 (GMT) From: "Ian R. Platt" Subject: Re: New applet - Japanese text input and kanji conversion To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <4a758bccb2rod@argonet.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Fri 04 May, Mr R O Davis wrote: > In article <3AF2604F.2832D115@sharp.co.uk>, > Graham Jones wrote: > > Mr R O Davis wrote: > > > > > > Ihave tried to load this exciting new applet but meet a > > > problem. > > > Well, there are two possibilities (probably more). First question: which > > version of Ovation Pro are you using? David put a fix into 2.63 for a > > problem to do with DDL and fonts which was causing me a problem (not > > related to yours) so I have only tested on 2.63. I'm not sure how long > > "refreshbutton" has been in the script language. > > Yes, that is part of the problem. I have tried it out with 2.60 > and I don't get the error message. So the Aplet gets loaded and > appears on the Applets menu. I'm using 2.58 Loads OK, but... > > Alas the convert part of the menu is greyed out so that I can't do > any converting though the fonts are loaded and if I select them in > the normal OvPro way I get Hiragana or Katakana Hmm, that's the same for me - greyed out 'convert' > but one character > at a time... I guess what is supposed to happen is that if I type > ka ki ku ke ko I'm supposed to get four characters...? .... or five :-) > Am I still > doing something wrong? I get the number I type in, but can't convert to kanji. Ian P. -- Ian Platt Risc OS4 + StrongARM = UK technology. Continuing to 'think differently':-) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 8 21:56:29 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149835 for opro ; Tue, 08 May 101 21:56:27 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989079843:10:02793:66; Sat, 05 May 2001 16:24:03 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1126844; 5 May 2001 16:23 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f45GMwu25855 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 5 May 2001 17:22:58 +0100 Received: from mail12.svr.pol.co.uk (mail12.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.215]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f45GMr525850 for ; Sat, 5 May 2001 17:22:53 +0100 Received: from modem-66.cobalt.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.26.66] helo=kerslakej2.freeserve.co.uk) by mail12.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14w4pe-0000FF-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 05 May 2001 17:22:58 +0100 Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 16:13:07 +0100 (BST) From: John Percy Kerslake Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <4a75874a3csteve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Fri 04 May, Steven Pampling wrote: > In article , > John Percy Kerslake wrote: > > On Wed 02 May, David Pilling wrote: > > > > >Experience at work and various home manuals (including the OP) > > > >suggests wire bound is not up to the wear and tear and is difficult > > > >to re-enforce. > > > > 3 ring is less prone to this problem. > > > Also with the 3 ring version could be kept up to date by e mailing > > replacement sections as ovation files for people to print out. > > and the bits you haven't replaced can be re-enforced with those little > sticky circles... > > ...keep going Davids backing into a corner ;) Especally if your page numbering is chapter based eg in chapter 3 all pages are numbered 3.xx etc -- J.P. Kerslake B.Sc., F.B.I.S. Pager 07626 - 235878 e-mail address:- Work = kerslake@sees.bangor.ac.uk Home = johnpercy@kerslakej2.freeserve.co.uk, Dyslexia Rules KO. RiscStation 64 meg 50 ns RAM. 9G HD, Ant INS. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 8 21:56:30 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149834 for opro ; Tue, 08 May 101 21:56:27 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989076923:20:00404:64; Sat, 05 May 2001 15:35:23 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2110045; 5 May 2001 15:35 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f45FYQ325605 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 5 May 2001 16:34:26 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f45FYN525602 for ; Sat, 5 May 2001 16:34:23 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14w44i-000MzG-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 5 May 2001 15:34:28 +0000 Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 14:23:06 GMT Message-Id: <149813@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: ImpDoc to OvnPro converter? X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >But has anybody written either an independent program or an applet >which lets you convert whole directories of ImpDoc files to OvnPro ones? This should be easy. Inside !TransIMP there is a file !Convert which takes two arguments and which means you can have a command like !Convert impression toddl So all you need is some sort of tool which will appply another program to each file in a directory. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 8 21:56:34 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149837 for opro ; Tue, 08 May 101 21:56:31 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989079046:20:23923:65; Sat, 05 May 2001 16:10:46 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2117621; 5 May 2001 16:10 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f45G1iC25762 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 5 May 2001 17:01:44 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f45G1e525758 for ; Sat, 5 May 2001 17:01:40 +0100 Received: from ypical.demon.co.uk ([158.152.78.65]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14w4V8-0006AO-0U for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 5 May 2001 17:01:46 +0100 Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 16:13:11 +0100 From: Fred Bambrough To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: References: <149787@pilling.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <149787@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: @ypical User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.50 (MsgServe/1.50) (RISC-OS/4.02) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In message <149787@pilling.demon.co.uk> opro@pilling.demon.co.uk (David Pilling) wrote: > > >Also with the 3 ring version could be kept up to date by e mailing > >replacement sections as ovation files for people to print out. > > I'm hoping to make a fortune selling 3 hole punches... You'll need to sell more than three. -- Fred -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 8 21:56:39 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149839 for opro ; Tue, 08 May 101 21:56:36 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989092007:10:19066:69; Sat, 05 May 2001 19:46:47 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1120560; 5 May 2001 19:46 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f45JjZg26585 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 5 May 2001 20:45:35 +0100 Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com (mailout06.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.19]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f45JjO526581 for ; Sat, 5 May 2001 20:45:25 +0100 Received: from fwd03.sul.t-online.com by mailout06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14w7zU-0004HY-01; Sat, 05 May 2001 21:45:20 +0200 Received: from veni (520042741018-0001@[217.0.115.42]) by fmrl03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14w7zj-0XvL5lC; Sat, 5 May 2001 21:45:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Bellon To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 21:30:21 +0200 Subject: Re: ImpDoc to OvnPro converter? Message-ID: <4a760a8a4fsbellon@sbellon.de> In-Reply-To: <149813@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <149813@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 Content-Type: text/plain X-Sender: 520042741018-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <149813@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling wrote: > >But has anybody written either an independent program or an applet > >which lets you convert whole directories of ImpDoc files to OvnPro > >ones? > This should be easy. Inside !TransIMP there is a file !Convert which > takes two arguments and > which means you can have a command like > !Convert impression toddl > So all you need is some sort of tool which will appply another program > to each file in a directory. That's nice. Thanks a lot for this hint! :-) Greetings, Stefan. -- Stefan Bellon * * PGP 2.6 and GnuPG (OpenPGP) keys available from my home page 100% of people born in 1839, who ate carrots, are dead. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 8 21:56:45 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149842 for opro ; Tue, 08 May 101 21:56:44 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989095152:20:17554:65; Sat, 05 May 2001 20:39:12 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2110600; 5 May 2001 20:39 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f45Kaq126829 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 5 May 2001 21:36:52 +0100 Received: from hose.mail.pipex.net (hose.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.58]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f45Kal526822 for ; Sat, 5 May 2001 21:36:47 +0100 Received: (qmail 22706 invoked from network); 5 May 2001 20:36:52 -0000 Received: from useraa96.test-uk.uudial.com (HELO loopback) (62.188.193.97) by smtp-4.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 5 May 2001 20:36:52 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 18:53:31 +0100 Subject: Re: Loading filetypes Message-ID: <4a7601ac90dfs@ukgateway.net> In-Reply-To: <4a758718f8steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> References: <149752@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a75678902dfs@ukgateway.net> <4a758718f8steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.04-pre1 Content-Type: text/plain X-Editor: Zap 1.44 (14 Feb 2000) [TEST 1], ZapEmail 0.25 (18 Mar 2000) test-2 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a758718f8steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk>, Steven Pampling wrote: > In article <4a75678902dfs@ukgateway.net>, > Dave Symes wrote: > > For silliness sake I took a Word Doc file re-filetyped it to DOS and > > dropped that into the OvPro window, after the usual "Are you sure" it > > loaded okay... obviously not much of it was understandable, > Sounds like a normal Word document ;-) Funnily enough steve it was ;-) As per usual Word (Doncha just hate it), It had two short sentences that I'd written, plus yards and yards of the other config stuff... :-( cheers Dave S -- _______________________________________________________________________ Dave Symes... dfs@ukgateway.net Also... df@dafs.freeserve.co.uk .. or... dave@triffid.co.uk http://www.dfs.ukgateway.net -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 8 21:56:48 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149843 for opro ; Tue, 08 May 101 21:56:46 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989095097:10:04307:64; Sat, 05 May 2001 20:38:17 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1003861; 5 May 2001 20:37 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f45KatH26830 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 5 May 2001 21:36:55 +0100 Received: from hose.mail.pipex.net (hose.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.58]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f45Kan526826 for ; Sat, 5 May 2001 21:36:50 +0100 Received: (qmail 22708 invoked from network); 5 May 2001 20:36:54 -0000 Received: from useraa96.test-uk.uudial.com (HELO loopback) (62.188.193.97) by smtp-4.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 5 May 2001 20:36:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 19:02:56 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a7602896cdfs@ukgateway.net> In-Reply-To: <4a75874a3csteve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> References: <149629@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a75874a3csteve.pampling@ User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.04-pre1 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a75874a3csteve.pampling@argonet.co.uk>, Steven Pampling wrote: > In article , > John Percy Kerslake wrote: > > On Wed 02 May, David Pilling wrote: > > > >Experience at work and various home manuals (including the OP) > > > >suggests wire bound is not up to the wear and tear and is difficult > > > >to re-enforce. > > > 3 ring is less prone to this problem. > > > Also with the 3 ring version could be kept up to date by e mailing > > replacement sections as ovation files for people to print out. > and the bits you haven't replaced can be re-enforced with those little > sticky circles... > ...keep going Davids backing into a corner ;) Mnnn! By why that **** awful 3 ring US standard thing. Mighta been better to supply it loose and unpunched so we could use the types of hole punches and folder we already have. I already have 1,2,4 and 6 but I sure don't have a Yankee three holer. Yea, yea... I know they are available, they're in my wholesale stationers catalogue, but that's another 20quid on top of the manual cost. Dave S -- _______________________________________________________________________ Dave Symes... dfs@ukgateway.net Also... df@dafs.freeserve.co.uk .. or... dave@triffid.co.uk http://www.dfs.ukgateway.net -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 8 21:57:12 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149854 for opro ; Tue, 08 May 101 21:57:09 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989145993:20:06061:64; Sun, 06 May 2001 10:46:33 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2005655; 6 May 2001 10:46 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f46Ak6429316 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 6 May 2001 11:46:06 +0100 Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f46Ak3529312 for ; Sun, 6 May 2001 11:46:03 +0100 Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([158.152.204.98]) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14wM3E-00094v-0B; Sun, 6 May 2001 10:46:08 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Cc: dfs@ukgateway.net Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 11:37:00 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a765d8b4ejohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4a7602896cdfs@ukgateway.net> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02d (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article , Ian R. Platt wrote: > Replying to John Kerslake, even if the pages are numbered as chapters, > you still have the problem: y0u still have to add the new additional > page between, say, 3.14 and 3.15. Unles you use decimal numbering: 4.1 4.2 4.3 4.4 etc are your original pages. If you want pages between 4.2 and 4.3 then you number them: 4.21 4.22 4.23 etc Of course if the original had more than 9 pages per chapter you might want to number them to 2 places of decimals originally - even bet if you ensure that the first place of decimal identifies the su-topic within the paragraph. Last hint is to identify the date of issue and version number of the manual on each page so that the most recent version can be easily identified. Last question: Why is it that nearly* every loose leaf manual that I have has never had update sheets whilst nearly every bound manual has had updates? *The one exception is Composition and the updates aren't on punched sheets! -- John Cartmell - Manchester, UK Fleur Designs -- FD Games - - - compact designer board games at: Acorn/RISC OS Show - - - Thornes Park Stadium, Wakefield 19th & 20th May 2001 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 8 21:57:25 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149860 for opro ; Tue, 08 May 101 21:57:22 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989152844:20:27615:65; Sun, 06 May 2001 12:40:44 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2120116; 6 May 2001 12:40 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f46CYpt29866 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 6 May 2001 13:34:51 +0100 Received: from smtp02.fields.gol.com (smtp02.fields.gol.com [203.216.5.132]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f46CYj529859 for ; Sun, 6 May 2001 13:34:45 +0100 Received: from tc-2-1-239.shinjuku.gol.ne.jp ([203.216.10.239] helo=plattir.gol.com) by smtp02.fields.gol.com with smtp (Magnetic Fields) id 14wNkO-0004Lb-00 for ; Sun, 06 May 2001 21:34:48 +0900 Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 21:36:02 +0000 (GMT) From: "Ian R. Platt" Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <4a765d8b4ejohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Sun 06 May, John Cartmell wrote: > In article , > Ian R. Platt wrote: > > Replying to John Kerslake, even if the pages are numbered as chapters, > > you still have the problem: y0u still have to add the new additional > > page between, say, 3.14 and 3.15. > Unles you use decimal numbering: > 4.1 > 4.2 > 4.3 > 4.4 > etc > are your original pages. > If you want pages between 4.2 and 4.3 then you number them: > 4.21 > 4.22 > 4.23 > etc > > Of course if the original had more than 9 pages per chapter you might want > to number them to 2 places of decimals originally - even bet if you ensure > that the first place of decimal identifies the su-topic within the > paragraph. > Last hint is to identify the date of issue and version number of the manual > on each page so that the most recent version can be easily identified. > > Last question: > Why is it that nearly* every loose leaf manual that I have has never had > update sheets whilst nearly every bound manual has had updates? > > *The one exception is Composition and the updates aren't on punched sheets! > S'well known fact: Pilling's Law ;-) Ian P. -- Ian Platt Risc OS4 + StrongARM = UK technology. Continuing to 'think differently':-) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 8 21:57:29 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149861 for opro ; Tue, 08 May 101 21:57:26 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989139352:10:19401:71; Sun, 06 May 2001 08:55:52 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1115983; 6 May 2001 8:55 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f468sV928838 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 6 May 2001 09:54:31 +0100 Received: from smtp01.fields.gol.com (smtp01.fields.gol.com [203.216.5.131]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f468sQ528835 for ; Sun, 6 May 2001 09:54:26 +0100 Received: from tc-2-1-247.shinjuku.gol.ne.jp ([203.216.10.247] helo=plattir.gol.com) by smtp01.fields.gol.com with smtp (Magnetic Fields) id 14wKJC-0003qa-00; Sun, 06 May 2001 17:54:31 +0900 Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 08:08:35 +0000 (GMT) From: "Ian R. Platt" Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk cc: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk, Dave Symes In-Reply-To: <4a7602896cdfs@ukgateway.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Sat 05 May, Dave Symes wrote: (Snip) > > Mnnn! By why that **** awful 3 ring US standard thing. > > Mighta been better to supply it loose and unpunched so we could use the > types of hole punches and folder we already have. > I already have 1,2,4 and 6 but I sure don't have a Yankee three holer. > Time to complete your collection then ;-) > Yea, yea... I know they are available, they're in my wholesale stationers > catalogue, but that's another 20quid on top of the manual cost. > Now how can 3 holes cost more than 2? You can, of course, punch 3 holes with a 2-hole punch: set paper at angle across the mouth of the punch, or, as you already point out Dave, make up a template & use the 1-hole punch 3 times :-) I agree it would be better for St David to supply unpunched. It would save him a bit too, omitting a process in the manufacturing chain. I'd be happy to pay the same. Replying to John Kerslake, even if the pages are numbered as chapters, you still have the problem: y0u still have to add the new additional page between, say, 3.14 and 3.15. Any new additions (rather than simple substitutions) have to be numbered xx.1 or xx.a). But that's nae se bad as it then shows you they are newer pages. > -- Ian Platt Risc OS4 + StrongARM = UK technology. Continuing to 'think differently':-) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 8 21:57:35 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149865 for opro ; Tue, 08 May 101 21:57:33 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989145203:10:11807:71; Sun, 06 May 2001 10:33:23 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1011235; 6 May 2001 10:32 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f46AVrI29221 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 6 May 2001 11:31:53 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f46AVn529218 for ; Sun, 6 May 2001 11:31:50 +0100 Received: from [62.188.17.253] (helo=62.188.17.253) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14wLnB-0003Ox-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sun, 06 May 2001 11:29:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: David Breakwell To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 11:12:35 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: RTF Message-ID: <4a7660cde2davidb@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <677760754a.colin@cstage.argonet.co.uk> References: <4b9154754a.JayCee@jstp.freeserve.co.uk> <677760754a.colin@cstage.argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02b (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <677760754a.colin@cstage.argonet.co.uk>, wrote: > David Breakwell has written an RTF exporter, !MakeRTF, which integrates > seamlessly into OPro and put a third radio button on the 'save as' > window - you can get it from him if you email him direct ie it's not on > the resources site, at davidb@argonet.co.uk Hello everyone Development of MakeRTF has been slow of late - the last version 3.04 made a few fixes and added support for a few more DDL commands (paragraphs indents and spacings). The next step was to add extra font and Unicode handling so that the mapping of fonts was user selectable and Dingbat type fonts could be used more effectively. I also wanted to add basic graphics support. These have not been done as I have gone back to developing a tool to communicate between the Acorn and my Handspring visor (Palm device). For those that were interested in the Palm - I can now download DBs and install Apps and read DBs from the Palm. I currently adding backup and restore and I will then release it. Can I take this opportunity to remind everyone that MakeRTF is careware - this means that if you find it useful then please make a donation to my Scout Group - details are in the Readme file Regards David -- --. --. --. --. : : --- --- .---------------------------------------------. |_| |_| | _ | | | | |_ | |Internet provider for all Acorn RISC machines| | | |\ | | | | |\| | | '---------------------------------------------' | | | \ |_| |_| | | |__ | davidb@argonet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 8 21:57:51 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149868 for opro ; Tue, 08 May 101 21:57:50 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989150814:10:21810:64; Sun, 06 May 2001 12:06:54 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1021105; 6 May 2001 12:06 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f46C5bn29700 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 6 May 2001 13:05:37 +0100 Received: from snowstorm.mail.pipex.net (snowstorm.mail.pipex.net [158.43.192.97]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f46C5X529696 for ; Sun, 6 May 2001 13:05:33 +0100 Received: (qmail 20994 invoked from network); 6 May 2001 12:05:38 -0000 Received: from userah14.uk.uudial.com (HELO RiscPC) (62.188.132.199) by smtp-5.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 6 May 2001 12:05:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 11:23:32 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a765c5015steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4a7602896cdfs@ukgateway.net> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article , Ian R. Platt wrote: > You can, of course, punch 3 holes with a 2-hole punch: set paper at > angle across the mouth of the punch, or, as you already point out Dave, > make up a template & use the 1-hole punch 3 times :-) Now if the manual document was printed from a template that included the holes ready marked... -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 8 21:57:54 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149867 for opro ; Tue, 08 May 101 21:57:38 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989178958:20:00060:64; Sun, 06 May 2001 19:55:58 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2118191; 6 May 2001 19:55 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f46JsVn31014 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 6 May 2001 20:54:31 +0100 Received: from warrior-outbound.servers.plus.net ([212.159.14.227]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f46JsQ531011 for ; Sun, 6 May 2001 20:54:27 +0100 Received: (qmail 22054 invoked from network); 6 May 2001 19:54:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tinshill.force9.net) (212.159.23.165) by warrior with SMTP; 6 May 2001 19:54:25 -0000 Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 09:06:05 +0100 (BST) From: Anthony Hilton Subject: Re: Loading filetypes To: Ovation Pro List In-Reply-To: <4a7601ac90dfs@ukgateway.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In on Sat 05 May, Dave Symes wrote: > In article <4a758718f8steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk>, > Steven Pampling wrote: > > In article <4a75678902dfs@ukgateway.net>, > > Dave Symes wrote: > > > For silliness sake I took a Word Doc file re-filetyped it to DOS and > > > dropped that into the OvPro window, after the usual "Are you sure" it > > > loaded okay... obviously not much of it was understandable, > > > Sounds like a normal Word document ;-) > > Funnily enough steve it was ;-) > > As per usual Word (Doncha just hate it), It had two short sentences that > I'd written, plus yards and yards of the other config stuff... :-( > Try a simple experiment: write a sentence in Word, save as a Word doc, safe as RTF and save as text and compare file sizes - I think I have seen 10:1 for Doc:txt. The basic Word bloat nust be fairly constant, but there is a full second copy of the text in there if I remember correctly, so the effect is worst for short documents. Anthony Hilton -- ajh@tinshill.f9.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 8 21:57:58 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149871 for opro ; Tue, 08 May 101 21:57:56 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989196008:10:02030:67; Mon, 07 May 2001 00:40:08 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1128603; 7 May 2001 0:39 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f470aYh31745 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 7 May 2001 01:36:34 +0100 Received: from snowstorm.mail.pipex.net (snowstorm.mail.pipex.net [158.43.192.97]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f470aT531742 for ; Mon, 7 May 2001 01:36:31 +0100 Received: (qmail 6442 invoked from network); 7 May 2001 00:36:33 -0000 Received: from userco99.uk.uudial.com (HELO RiscPC) (62.188.156.29) by smtp-5.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 7 May 2001 00:36:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: Ovation Pro List Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 21:49:57 +0100 Subject: Re: Loading filetypes Message-ID: <4a7695a9e0steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4a7601ac90dfs@ukgateway.net> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article , Anthony Hilton wrote: > Try a simple experiment: write a sentence in Word, save as a Word doc, > safe as RTF and save as text and compare file sizes - I think I have > seen 10:1 for Doc:txt. The basic Word bloat nust be fairly constant, but > there is a full second copy of the text in there if I remember > correctly, so the effect is worst for short documents. Turn off "Fast Save" and see what difference it makes. -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 8 21:58:27 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149875 for opro ; Tue, 08 May 101 21:58:24 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989236312:10:23708:76; Mon, 07 May 2001 11:51:52 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1022789; 7 May 2001 11:50 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f47Bnks00835 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 7 May 2001 12:49:46 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f47Bng500832 for ; Mon, 7 May 2001 12:49:42 +0100 Received: from [62.188.146.30] (helo=62.188.146.30) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14wjU2-0003Wb-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 07 May 2001 12:47:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Mr R O Davis To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 12:49:41 +0100 Subject: Re: New applet - Japanese text input and kanji conversion Message-ID: <4a76e80933rod@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Pluto/2.02c (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro I have been trying a bit more with this applet having installed v260 of OvPro. I find I can now enter hiragana and katakana in all the four styles provided. There are two problems: 1. I don't get any icon on the icon-bar so I cannot switch from Latin characters from Kana. 2. More curious... I cannot enter the character ze in either Hiragana or Katakana. Se is OK. Either the 'ze' is missing from the fonts or for some reason the conversion process of z+e fails. Are these problems 'just me' or do the others trying out this brilliant applet find the same problems. P.S. I have found that there are some Cyrillic characters in the fonts... I wonder if there could be a modification when the icon 'switcher' works to allow these to be used? -- /\ _ \ |==============| / / / \__\ |===================| | Rodger Davis | /_/ / / / \ | rod@argonet.co.uk | |==============| / \_/\_/ /___) |===================| -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 8 21:58:51 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149883 for opro ; Tue, 08 May 101 21:58:49 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989254768:20:04204:66; Mon, 07 May 2001 16:59:28 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2126175; 7 May 2001 16:59 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f47GwZZ01775 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 7 May 2001 17:58:35 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f47GwW501772 for ; Mon, 7 May 2001 17:58:32 +0100 Received: from [62.188.137.29] (helo=62.188.137.29) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14woIp-0002oX-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 07 May 2001 17:56:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Mr R O Davis To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 17:58:07 +0100 Subject: Re: New applet - Japanese text input and kanji conversion Message-ID: <4a77044635rod@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a76e80933rod@argonet.co.uk> References: <4a76e80933rod@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02c (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Me again... if anyone's out there! I find that of my two problems one other is solved. The icon to change from Latin characters to Kana is indeed there... it is on the bar at the top of the window in OvPro not where I was expecting it viz on the main icon bar at the bottom of the screen. The 'ze' problem persists, however. I have examined the fonts and the character seems to be there. So it must be that for some reason the conversion process of z+e = 'ze' fails. Now all I have to do (when the ze problem is sorted) is to try to find out how to get my button bar back as I like it ... in several rows... the upgrading from v256 to v260 has lost me my multirow button bar! -- /\ _ \ |==============| / / / \__\ |===================| | Rodger Davis | /_/ / / / \ | rod@argonet.co.uk | |==============| / \_/\_/ /___) |===================| -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 8 21:58:55 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149885 for opro ; Tue, 08 May 101 21:58:52 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989256416:20:09568:64; Mon, 07 May 2001 17:26:56 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2104694; 7 May 2001 17:26 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f47HGUj01895 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 7 May 2001 18:16:30 +0100 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk (mail6.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.212]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f47HGN501889 for ; Mon, 7 May 2001 18:16:23 +0100 Received: from modem-78.ruthenium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.37.206] helo=kerslakej2.freeserve.co.uk) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14wocU-0003JK-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 07 May 2001 18:16:27 +0100 Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 18:59:29 +0100 (BST) From: John Percy Kerslake Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Sun 06 May, Ian R. Platt wrote: > On Sun 06 May, John Cartmell wrote: > > In article , > > Ian R. Platt wrote: > > > Replying to John Kerslake, even if the pages are numbered as chapters, > > > you still have the problem: y0u still have to add the new additional > > > page between, say, 3.14 and 3.15. > > Unles you use decimal numbering: > > 4.1 > > 4.2 > > 4.3 > > 4.4 > > etc > > are your original pages. > > If you want pages between 4.2 and 4.3 then you number them: > > 4.21 > > 4.22 > > 4.23 > > etc > > > > Of course if the original had more than 9 pages per chapter you might want > > to number them to 2 places of decimals originally - even bet if you ensure > > that the first place of decimal identifies the su-topic within the > > paragraph. > > Last hint is to identify the date of issue and version number of the manual > > on each page so that the most recent version can be easily identified. > > > > Last question: > > Why is it that nearly* every loose leaf manual that I have has never had > > update sheets whilst nearly every bound manual has had updates? > > > > *The one exception is Composition and the updates aren't on punched sheets! > > > S'well known fact: > > Pilling's Law > > ;-) > > Ian P. yes you are quite correct. replacing an entier chapter Just to update one section would be a waste of paper. an X.Y.ZZ system is better. Post in haste repent while reading a lot of corrections. -- J.P. Kerslake B.Sc., F.B.I.S. Pager 07626 - 235878 e-mail address:- Work = kerslake@sees.bangor.ac.uk Home = johnpercy@kerslakej2.freeserve.co.uk, Dyslexia Rules KO. RiscStation 64 meg 50 ns RAM. 9G HD, Ant INS. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 8 22:06:29 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149891 for opro ; Tue, 08 May 101 22:06:27 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989355489:10:23494:66; Tue, 08 May 2001 20:58:09 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1123534; 8 May 2001 20:57 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f48Ks2x06075 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 8 May 2001 21:54:02 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f48Krw506072 for ; Tue, 8 May 2001 21:53:59 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14xEUe-000FmN-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 8 May 2001 20:54:04 +0000 Date: Sat, 05 May 2001 21:20:23 GMT Message-Id: <149830@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R >and the bits you haven't replaced can be re-enforced with those little >sticky circles... Actually I should read the messages before replying. I meant that three ring is more substantial than two ring which needs the sticky circles. I'd imagine wire bound is stronger than any ring binder. I think the idea with wire bound is use it and then throw it away, they are much handier than ring binders (speaking as a programmer). David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 9 02:43:33 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149928 for opro ; Wed, 09 May 101 02:43:29 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989363085:10:06493:70; Tue, 08 May 2001 23:04:45 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1005470; 8 May 2001 23:03 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f48N0Cw06523 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 9 May 2001 00:00:12 +0100 Received: from mserv1c.vianw.co.uk (mserv1c.vianw.co.uk [195.102.240.33]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f48N08506520 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 00:00:08 +0100 Received: from [194.119.179.59] (helo=Caslon.english.co.uk) by mserv1c.vianw.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #5) id 14xGSi-000004-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 09 May 2001 00:00:13 +0100 Received: from Gill (10.0.1.1) by Caslon.english.co.uk; Tue, 08 May 2001 23:37:37 +0100 Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 23:37:53 +0100 From: David Graddol To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <149830@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: The English Company (UK) Ltd X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro opro@pilling.demon.co.uk (David Pilling) wrote: > > >and the bits you haven't replaced can be re-enforced with those little > >sticky circles... > > Actually I should read the messages before replying. I meant that three ring > is more substantial than two ring which needs the sticky circles. > I'd imagine wire bound is stronger than any ring binder. > > I think the idea with wire bound is use it and then throw it away, they are > much handier than ring binders (speaking as a programmer). Yep. I'd second that. A three-ring binder sounds a pain, takes more room on the shelf as well as on the desk. A wirebound manual can usually lie flat with the relevant page open. David -- The English Company (UK) Ltd http://www.english.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 9 14:47:00 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149932 for opro ; Wed, 09 May 101 14:46:57 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989388671:10:04839:68; Wed, 09 May 2001 06:11:11 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1004716; 9 May 2001 6:10 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f491f6S07017 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 9 May 2001 02:41:06 +0100 Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow024o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.126]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f466ce528473 for ; Sun, 6 May 2001 07:38:40 +0100 Received: from bgba01526.blueyonder.co.uk ([213.48.120.93]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sun, 6 May 2001 07:40:33 +0100 Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 19:15:14 +0100 (BST) From: Barry Gray Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Barry Gray E-mail: barrygray@blueyonder.co.uk X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Thu 03 May, John Percy Kerslake wrote: > On Wed 02 May, David Pilling wrote: > > > > > > >Experience at work and various home manuals (including the OP) suggests > > >wire bound is not up to the wear and tear and is difficult to re-enforce. > > > > 3 ring is less prone to this problem. > > > > > > David Pilling > > > > Also with the 3 ring version could be kept up to date by e mailing > replacement sections as ovation files for people to print out. Good idea. The problem with all manuals, whether printed or on CD ROM, is that they go out of date so quickly, and the release notes issued with program revisions are really inadequate as manual updates. When I first started in computing, in the 1950s, the manual was a set of duplicated typewritten pages stapled together. It was kept up to date by the author telephoning you and you writing the amendments in by hand. By the middle sixties the manual was a loose leaf binder of printed pages which was kept up to date by you being sent replacement pages: throw away pages 2 and 3 and replace with new pages 2, 3 and 3a. A similar system exists today for, for example, Cromer's Manual for Heads of Science. Mind you, you pay iirc ukp80 pa for the service.... -- Barry Gray http://www.barrygray.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 9 14:57:07 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149939 for opro ; Wed, 09 May 101 14:57:05 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989402479:10:24113:73; Wed, 09 May 2001 10:01:19 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1024151; 9 May 2001 10:01 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f499xec08296 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 9 May 2001 10:59:40 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f499xZ508290 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 10:59:35 +0100 Received: from [62.188.17.71] (helo=62.188.17.71) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14xQiV-0001a1-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 09 May 2001 10:57:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "charles.hope" To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 08:52:02 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a77d9f371charles.hope@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <149514@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <149514@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02c (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R On 01 May, David Pilling wrote: > If anyone wants a copy of the new manual then I've set a price of ukp 25 > all inclusive. This seems high to me, but its a heavy item and a small > print run. For most people using the manual on the CD will be the best > thing. I've just come across a CD manual designed for looking at on a monitor. I have always been irritated by having to scroll down a page and then go to the next one, but this manual from Wacom is formatted for landscape viewing, so you just have to go to "next page". Much easier to use. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 9 14:57:09 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149940 for opro ; Wed, 09 May 101 14:57:08 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989402479:10:24118:64; Wed, 09 May 2001 10:01:19 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1106160; 9 May 2001 10:00 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f499xhc08298 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 9 May 2001 10:59:43 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f499xd508294 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 10:59:39 +0100 Received: from [62.188.17.71] (helo=62.188.17.71) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14xQiY-0001a1-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 09 May 2001 10:57:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "charles.hope" To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 10:58:26 +0100 Subject: RTF files Message-ID: <4a77e585dacharles.hope@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <149633@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <149633@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02c (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R I find that if I try to import an RTF File derived directly from a Word document, there is a lot of disc activity but no text appears in the frame. I can, however, load the RTF file into a new document and then copy it over to the one where I want it. If I take the same Word document, load it into EasiWriter and save as RTF from there, I can put this straight into the frame of an existing document. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 9 21:55:38 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149969 for opro ; Wed, 09 May 101 21:55:34 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989430813:20:11735:123; Wed, 09 May 2001 17:53:33 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2011384; 9 May 2001 17:53 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f49Hq8U09792 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 9 May 2001 18:52:08 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f49F9P509328 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 16:09:25 +0100 Received: from [62.188.145.235] (helo=62.188.145.235) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14xVYL-0004Mt-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 09 May 2001 16:07:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Derrick Porter To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 15:22:54 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a77fdbc6bdgporter@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> References: <149830@pilling.demon.co.uk> <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01f (RISC-OS/4.03) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk>, David Graddol wrote: > Yep. I'd second that. A three-ring binder sounds a pain, takes > more room on the shelf as well as on the desk. A wirebound manual > can usually lie flat with the relevant page open. Sorry, I disagree ... strongly. Although a wire bound-manual is more convenient to use, a ring-bound manual is much more convenient as far as adding updates is concerned. In my case I not only add updates in this manner but brief notes on how to do various things that I may have to do only once or twice a year. My memory is not too good and if I didn't have these working-notes I would have to start from scratch each time. My personal preference is for 4-ring A4 format, but 3-ring in a smaller page size is just about OK. As far as taking up space is concerned I have just done a quick count - I have 49 A4 ring binders on my shelves, ranging in size from 4 inches wide down to three quarters. One more wouldn't be a problem. A manual printed on plain A4 pages would be OK with me. I can easily punch holes and file it myself. If -- ___________________________________________________________________________ Derrick G Porter dgporter@argonet.co.uk Tel: +44 1798 81 2383 ..... in deepest Sussex ..... ___________________________________________________________________________ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 9 21:55:42 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149972 for opro ; Wed, 09 May 101 21:55:39 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989430849:10:06398:92; Wed, 09 May 2001 17:54:09 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1116987; 9 May 2001 17:53 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f49HpxH09782 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 9 May 2001 18:51:59 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f49Hpt509779 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 18:51:56 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14xY81-0006Xt-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 9 May 2001 17:52:01 +0000 Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 18:19:42 GMT Message-Id: <149957@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R >I've just come across a CD manual designed for looking at on a monitor. I >have always been irritated by having to scroll down a page and then go to >the next one, but this manual from Wacom is formatted for landscape >viewing, so you just have to go to "next page". Much easier to use. Good idea, and a fair point. What happens when you print the Wacom manual out on A4 or A5 paper? In a way it shows the shortcomings of the program, in that one would like a HTML version of the manual or a version that prints out well on screen. Perhaps one for A5, and another for A4. But we only have one version, that took a huge amount of effort to produce, and changing the format would be another massive exercise. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 9 21:55:46 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149973 for opro ; Wed, 09 May 101 21:55:43 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989440068:20:23951:80; Wed, 09 May 2001 20:27:48 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2120116; 9 May 2001 20:27 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f49KR6n10429 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 9 May 2001 21:27:06 +0100 Received: from alpha.netvision.net.il (alpha.netvision.net.il [194.90.1.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f49KR0510426 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 21:27:01 +0100 Received: from netvision.net.il (ras6-p126.jlm.netvision.net.il [62.0.150.126]) by alpha.netvision.net.il (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA32437 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 23:27:03 +0300 (IDT) Message-ID: <3AF9A848.5B0D9C76@netvision.net.il> Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 23:27:52 +0300 From: Michael Ben-Gershon Organization: My Office X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.19 i686) X-Accept-Language: en-GB, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) References: <149830@pilling.demon.co.uk> <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> <4a77d82c05steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Steven Pampling wrote: > > In article <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk>, > David Graddol wrote: > > Yep. I'd second that. A three-ring binder sounds a pain, takes > > more room on the shelf as well as on the desk. A wirebound manual > > can usually lie flat with the relevant page open. > > Unfortunately a wirebound manual.. > > 1. At the side of another wirebound manual starts mating... > 2. Gives you no clues on its spine what the contents are... 3. Often begins to 'lose' pages at its start and end, when they work free at the point the rings meet (if you see what I mean). Michael Ben-Gershon mybg@netvision.net.il -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 9 21:55:47 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149974 for opro ; Wed, 09 May 101 21:55:43 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989436110:10:16855:72; Wed, 09 May 2001 19:21:50 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1125144; 9 May 2001 19:21 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f49JKnA10179 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 9 May 2001 20:20:49 +0100 Received: from monsoon.mail.pipex.net (monsoon.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f49JKk510176 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 20:20:46 +0100 Received: (qmail 13001 invoked from network); 9 May 2001 19:20:52 -0000 Received: from useraj44.uk.uudial.com (HELO RiscPC) (62.188.133.173) by smtp-1.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 9 May 2001 19:20:52 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 08:32:36 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a77d82c05steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> References: <149830@pilling.demon.co.uk> <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk>, David Graddol wrote: > Yep. I'd second that. A three-ring binder sounds a pain, takes > more room on the shelf as well as on the desk. A wirebound manual > can usually lie flat with the relevant page open. Unfortunately a wirebound manual.. 1. At the side of another wirebound manual starts mating... 2. Gives you no clues on its spine what the contents are... -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 10 01:47:50 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149982 for opro ; Thu, 10 May 101 01:47:49 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989444097:20:15012:76; Wed, 09 May 2001 21:34:57 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2013568; 9 May 2001 21:34 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f49LWdm10682 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 9 May 2001 22:32:39 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f49LWZ510679 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 22:32:35 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14xbZY-000Bnj-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 9 May 2001 21:32:41 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 09 May 2001 22:26:37 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a78248741Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <149830@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <149830@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 05 May, David Pilling wrote: > I think the idea with wire bound is use it and then throw it away, they > are much handier than ring binders (speaking as a programmer). Speaking (also as a programmer, though not this platform) I don't have a problem with ring binders, whether 2- or n-rings, provided that the binder really *is* big enough for the manual - ie the whole manual can be on one or the other side of the opening in the rings, rather than only really being usable if you want to open it near the middle. It's certainly useful to be able to insert extra pages, even if they are just one's own notes so I'd never choose spiral binding. Spiral is however much better than conventional hardback textbook binding. I bought a duplexing laser printer recently and one big reason for getting it was that nearly no software comes with a real printed manual these days and I expect to physically print many soft manuals so I can read them in bed (I probably need to get a life too). Indeed one of the printer's own technical manuals is something like 800 pages long - though I might print that 2-up to save some paper. -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 10 02:03:24 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA149995 for opro ; Thu, 10 May 101 02:03:20 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989456176:20:18724:66; Thu, 10 May 2001 00:56:16 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2018336; 10 May 2001 0:55 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4A0j8511221 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 10 May 2001 01:45:08 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f49DMp509003 for ; Wed, 9 May 2001 14:22:51 +0100 Received: from barc.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.11]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14xTvd-0004oH-0V; Wed, 9 May 2001 14:22:57 +0100 Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 14:17:27 +0100 (BST) From: MikeWilson Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) To: Ovation Pro Chat list cc: Ovation Pro Chat list , David Pilling In-Reply-To: <149830@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Sat 05 May, David Pilling wrote: > > >and the bits you haven't replaced can be re-enforced with those little > >sticky circles... > > Actually I should read the messages before replying. I meant that three ring > is more substantial than two ring which needs the sticky circles. I quite agree, a 3 ring A5 binder is much more stable than a 2 ring A5 binder. As far as the punching problem is concerned, I have a cheap 4 hold adjustable punch and it is easy to set this to punch 3 holes. > I'd imagine wire bound is stronger than any ring binder. > > I think the idea with wire bound is use it and then throw it away, > they are much handier than ring binders (speaking as a programmer). Indeed, but with a program where there are frequent update releases it is much easier to add new pages into a ring binder, 2 hole or 3. I will certainly be ordering a 3 ring manual from David. Mike. -- Mike Wilson 0113-253-3722 mike@barc.demon.co.uk Hoping to see you at Wakefield 2001 - The Acorn RISC OS Show Thornes Park Athletics Stadium, Wakefield - May 19/20 2001 See: http://www.wacg.org.uk/show/ for latest information -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 10 13:15:37 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150003 for opro ; Thu, 10 May 101 13:15:35 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989486289:10:12625:94; Thu, 10 May 2001 09:18:09 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id ab1012104; 10 May 2001 9:17 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4A9FCG12443 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 10 May 2001 10:15:12 +0100 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk (mail6.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.212]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4A9F8512440 for ; Thu, 10 May 2001 10:15:08 +0100 Received: from modem-60.maroon-clown.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.40.60] helo=modem-60) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14xmXK-0003jN-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 10 May 2001 10:15:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Dawson To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:14:34 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a786557c0rayd@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a77d82c05steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> References: <149830@pilling.demon.co.uk> <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> <4a77d82c05steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 Organization: MagRay Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In article <4a77d82c05steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk>, Steven Pampling wrote: > In article <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk>, > David Graddol wrote: > > Yep. I'd second that. A three-ring binder sounds a pain, takes > > more room on the shelf as well as on the desk. A wirebound manual > > can usually lie flat with the relevant page open. > Unfortunately a wirebound manual.. > 1. At the side of another wirebound manual starts mating... > 2. Gives you no clues on its spine what the contents are... 3. Always starts to unwind from the bottom if You have turned the pages back on it... Cheers, Ray D -- ..===================================. | M a g R a y Document Services | Ray Dawson Tel: 020 8864 7208 | the audio and braille specialists | rayd@argonet.co.uk '===================================' http://www.magray.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 10 14:54:47 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150025 for opro ; Thu, 10 May 101 14:54:45 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989498163:10:03359:89; Thu, 10 May 2001 12:36:03 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1107344; 10 May 2001 12:35 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4ACXDo13141 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 10 May 2001 13:33:13 +0100 Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4A9fS512628 for ; Thu, 10 May 2001 10:41:28 +0100 Received: from riscpc.at.home ([213.107.105.170]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010510094134.XJZ283.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@riscpc.at.home> for ; Thu, 10 May 2001 10:41:34 +0100 Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 10:41:07 +0100 From: John Pettigrew To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4ec667784a.john@xl-cambridge.com> References: <149830@pilling.demon.co.uk> <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> <4a77d82c05steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> <4a786557c0rayd@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a786557c0rayd@argonet.co.uk> X-Organization: XL Cambridge User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10d (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.22 (27 Nov 1998) patch-3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In a previous message, Ray Dawson wrote: > In article <4a77d82c05steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk>, > Steven Pampling wrote: > > In article <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk>, > > David Graddol wrote: > > > Yep. I'd second that. A three-ring binder sounds a pain, takes > > > more room on the shelf as well as on the desk. A wirebound manual > > > can usually lie flat with the relevant page open. > > Unfortunately a wirebound manual.. > > 1. At the side of another wirebound manual starts mating... > > 2. Gives you no clues on its spine what the contents are... > 3. Always starts to unwind from the bottom if You have turned the pages > back on it... It's sounding to me like people would quite like it unbound, so that they can use their preferred method. Personally, I'd use my comb-binding machine :-) John -- John Pettigrew XL Cambridge - Contract and freelance editing and writing Life sciences specialist - molecular biology, genetics, biotechnology john@xl-cambridge.com http://www.xl-cambridge.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 10 16:45:09 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150034 for opro ; Thu, 10 May 101 16:45:08 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989509045:20:20626:71; Thu, 10 May 2001 15:37:25 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2020399; 10 May 2001 15:37 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4AFNrv13675 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 10 May 2001 16:23:53 +0100 Received: from monsoon.mail.pipex.net (monsoon.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4AFNo513672 for ; Thu, 10 May 2001 16:23:50 +0100 Received: (qmail 4307 invoked from network); 10 May 2001 15:23:56 -0000 Received: from userev03.uk.uudial.com (HELO RiscPC) (62.188.17.186) by smtp-1.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 10 May 2001 15:23:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 08:07:37 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a7859b87esteve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <3AF9A848.5B0D9C76@netvision.net.il> References: <149830@pilling.demon.co.uk> <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> <4a77d82c05steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> <3AF9 User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <3AF9A848.5B0D9C76@netvision.net.il>, Michael Ben-Gershon wrote: > Steven Pampling wrote: > > > > In article <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk>, > > David Graddol wrote: > > > Yep. I'd second that. A three-ring binder sounds a pain, takes > > > more room on the shelf as well as on the desk. A wirebound manual > > > can usually lie flat with the relevant page open. > > > > Unfortunately a wirebound manual.. > > > > 1. At the side of another wirebound manual starts mating... > > 2. Gives you no clues on its spine what the contents are... > 3. Often begins to 'lose' pages at its start and end, when they work > free at the point the rings meet (if you see what I mean). I do see. The items I listed were the first two that came to mind. 4. It's all but impossible to update a wirebound manual. 5. If you do succeed on 4. the wire has been bent and you have 3. occurring virtually every time you handle the manual. -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 10 19:54:58 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150036 for opro ; Thu, 10 May 101 19:54:56 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989514536:10:24597:73; Thu, 10 May 2001 17:08:56 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1023453; 10 May 2001 17:07 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4AH5uj14016 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 10 May 2001 18:05:56 +0100 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.177]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4AH5q514013 for ; Thu, 10 May 2001 18:05:52 +0100 Received: from modem-218.colorado.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.57.218] helo=beeston12) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14xtsz-0004TQ-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 10 May 2001 18:05:58 +0100 Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 17:27:44 +0100 From: Robin Phillips To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: RTF Message-ID: <3908d784a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a7660cde2davidb@argonet.co.uk> X-Organization: home X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.64b User-Agent: POPstar/2.03 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Dear David Breakwell, > > David Breakwell has written an RTF exporter, !MakeRTF, which integrates > > seamlessly into OPro and put a third radio button on the 'save as' > > window - you can get it from him if you email him direct ie it's not on > > the resources site, at davidb@argonet.co.uk I have now installed OvationPro 2.60 on my machine. I should be interested to have your MakeRTF add-on, please. I had an earlier version from you but did not get it working. This time I hope will succeed! [Not that the problem was your fault anyway...] I do look forward to being able to export RTF filea at last! Best wishes, Yours sincerely, Robin. -- Robin Phillips, 1, Newcastle Avenue, Beeston, Notts., NG9 1BT; Phone: +44 (0)115 922 4930 E-mail: rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 10 19:55:00 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150037 for opro ; Thu, 10 May 101 19:54:59 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989518434:10:16509:75; Thu, 10 May 2001 18:13:54 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1016153; 10 May 2001 18:13 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4AICcq14251 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 10 May 2001 19:12:38 +0100 Received: from monsoon.mail.pipex.net (monsoon.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4AICX514244 for ; Thu, 10 May 2001 19:12:33 +0100 Received: (qmail 26340 invoked from network); 10 May 2001 18:12:39 -0000 Received: from userfi37.uk.uudial.com (HELO RiscPC) (62.188.22.237) by smtp-1.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 10 May 2001 18:12:39 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 19:08:29 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a7896397asteve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a786557c0rayd@argonet.co.uk> References: <149830@pilling.demon.co.uk> <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> <4a77d82c05steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> <4a78 User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a786557c0rayd@argonet.co.uk>, Ray Dawson wrote: > In article <4a77d82c05steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk>, Steven Pampling > wrote: > > In article <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk>, David Graddol > > wrote: > > > Yep. I'd second that. A three-ring binder sounds a pain, takes more > > > room on the shelf as well as on the desk. A wirebound manual can > > > usually lie flat with the relevant page open. > > Unfortunately a wirebound manual.. > > 1. At the side of another wirebound manual starts mating... 2. Gives > > you no clues on its spine what the contents are... > 3. Always starts to unwind from the bottom if You have turned the > pages > back on it... Michael and I seem to have taken it to 5. So do you want this one listed as 6. or 3a (losing pages) ??? -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 10 19:55:03 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150038 for opro ; Thu, 10 May 101 19:55:01 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989518434:10:16518:78; Thu, 10 May 2001 18:13:54 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1016176; 10 May 2001 18:13 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4AICdx14252 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 10 May 2001 19:12:39 +0100 Received: from monsoon.mail.pipex.net (monsoon.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4AICY514248 for ; Thu, 10 May 2001 19:12:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 26343 invoked from network); 10 May 2001 18:12:40 -0000 Received: from userfi37.uk.uudial.com (HELO RiscPC) (62.188.22.237) by smtp-1.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 10 May 2001 18:12:40 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 19:11:02 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a78967517steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4ec667784a.john@xl-cambridge.com> References: <149830@pilling.demon.co.uk> <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> <4a77d82c05steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> <4a User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In article <4ec667784a.john@xl-cambridge.com>, John Pettigrew wrote: > It's sounding to me like people would quite like it unbound, so that > they can use their preferred method. Personally, I'd use my comb-binding > machine :-) Try re-doing that a few times (the holes break) As to chosen method of binding: Ovation Pro original manual is in a three ring binder with its own box all in a neat vinyl (no spine identifier though:( -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 10 22:05:25 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150057 for opro ; Thu, 10 May 101 22:05:21 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989526145:10:17056:76; Thu, 10 May 2001 20:22:25 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1129249; 10 May 2001 20:21 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4AKKZr14786 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 10 May 2001 21:20:35 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4AKKV514783 for ; Thu, 10 May 2001 21:20:31 +0100 Received: from [62.188.26.47] (helo=62.188.26.47) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14xwsu-0001S1-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 10 May 2001 21:18:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: David Breakwell To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 21:12:59 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: RTF files Message-ID: <4a78a71db9davidb@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a77e585dacharles.hope@argonet.co.uk> References: <149633@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a77e585dacharles.hope@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02b (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a77e585dacharles.hope@argonet.co.uk>, charles.hope wrote: > I find that if I try to import an RTF File derived directly from a Word > document, there is a lot of disc activity but no text appears in the > frame. I can, however, load the RTF file into a new document and then > copy it over to the one where I want it. > If I take the same Word document, load it into EasiWriter and save as > RTF from there, I can put this straight into the frame of an existing > document. I've not tried that (I don't have access to word @ home) but I guess this could be because my exporter includes style info - easiwriter RTF does not - and maybe word dislikes this ? That's the only major difference between the RTF I generate and the stuff Easiwriter makes. David -- --. --. --. --. : : --- --- .---------------------------------------------. |_| |_| | _ | | | | |_ | |Internet provider for all Acorn RISC machines| | | |\ | | | | |\| | | '---------------------------------------------' | | | \ |_| |_| | | |__ | davidb@argonet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 10 22:05:27 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150056 for opro ; Thu, 10 May 101 22:05:21 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989526125:20:03131:71; Thu, 10 May 2001 20:22:05 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2001982; 10 May 2001 20:21 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4AKKfS14791 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 10 May 2001 21:20:41 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4AKKb514788 for ; Thu, 10 May 2001 21:20:37 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14xwvS-000G84-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 10 May 2001 20:20:42 +0000 Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 19:59:15 GMT Message-Id: <150041@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R How about if we could agree on one format, it would be cheaper than producing lots... Or maybe the wonderful thing about having the manual on CD is that you can print and bind it yourself. Doing either manual at A4 and punching it into a ring binder should be easy enough. I suspect I'll have a batch of wire bound ones printed, low cost, easy to ship, and cheap to ship too. And maybe some 'fat' versions of the new ring bound manual i.e. including the script stuff. The latter would look nice. If there are any collectors of computer manuals. And in most organisations there is someone who collects manuals. How else to explain why they always vanish. (could be a new Dilbert character, the guy in the office packed with manuals). David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 11 01:49:33 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150071 for opro ; Fri, 11 May 101 01:49:31 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989532999:20:00726:74; Thu, 10 May 2001 22:16:39 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2000503; 10 May 2001 22:16 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4AMFDY15234 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 10 May 2001 23:15:13 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4AL5P515074 for ; Thu, 10 May 2001 22:05:25 +0100 Received: from [62.188.19.72] (helo=62.188.19.72) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14xxaK-0003Pw-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 10 May 2001 22:02:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Owl-Art Un-Ltd." To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 22:00:47 +0100 Subject: Problems with printing drawfiles with large scale factor Message-ID: <4a78a5fffaowlart@owlart.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02b (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro I have got a document which has two very simple drawfiles, both scaled to arounf 950%. However, when I come to print the document, they do not print. Everything else works perfectly, but not these. If I scale the drawfiles in Draw to approx the right size before dropping them into OPro, they will then print happily. Has anyone else come across this problem, and is there a workarod/fix other than scaling everything in Draw first? Andrew -- http://www.owlart.co.uk/ +----------------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | Owl-Art Un-Ltd. Design and Print Work | email: Sales@owlart.co.uk | | Coming to you on an Acorn RiscPC SA110 | Snail: 58 Newland Road, | | | Worthing, | | Business Cards, Invites, Newsletters, | West Sussex. | | Booklets, Programmes, Original Artwork | BN11 1JX. U.K. | +----------------------------------------+---------------------------------+ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 11 01:49:34 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150070 for opro ; Fri, 11 May 101 01:49:31 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989532994:10:23473:65; Thu, 10 May 2001 22:16:34 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1023335; 10 May 2001 22:16 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4AMFGT15236 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 10 May 2001 23:15:16 +0100 Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (mta03-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.43]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4AJG8514574 for ; Thu, 10 May 2001 20:16:08 +0100 Received: from riscpc.at.home ([213.107.105.170]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010510191615.NXZF283.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@riscpc.at.home> for ; Thu, 10 May 2001 20:16:15 +0100 Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 20:15:45 +0100 From: John Pettigrew To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: References: <149830@pilling.demon.co.uk> <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> <4a77d82c05steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> <4a786557c0rayd@argonet.co.uk> <4ec667784a.john@xl-cambridge.com> <4a78967517steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a78967517steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> X-Organization: XL Cambridge User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10d (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.22 (27 Nov 1998) patch-3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In a previous message, Steven Pampling wrote: > In article <4ec667784a.john@xl-cambridge.com>, > John Pettigrew wrote: > > It's sounding to me like people would quite like it unbound, so that > > they can use their preferred method. Personally, I'd use my comb-binding > > machine :-) > > Try re-doing that a few times (the holes break) Not if you're careful. Anyway, I'd do it mainly because I have it, it's easy and I dont way more binders, especially as I have no 3-ring binder for a manual punched in that way (a possible flaw with supplying in that format, David). > As to chosen method of binding: Ovation Pro original manual is in a three > ring binder with its own box all in a neat vinyl ?? Which version? Do you mean the new one, because my OP manual is wire bound! John -- John Pettigrew XL Cambridge - Contract and freelance editing and writing Life sciences specialist - molecular biology, genetics, biotechnology john@xl-cambridge.com http://www.xl-cambridge.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 11 13:49:52 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150091 for opro ; Fri, 11 May 101 13:49:49 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989563700:10:06003:72; Fri, 11 May 2001 06:48:20 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1005664; 11 May 2001 6:47 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4B6kdD16525 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 11 May 2001 07:46:39 +0100 Received: from monsoon.mail.pipex.net (monsoon.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4B6ka516522 for ; Fri, 11 May 2001 07:46:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 21119 invoked from network); 11 May 2001 06:46:42 -0000 Received: from userbh01.uk.uudial.com (HELO RiscPC) (62.188.142.220) by smtp-1.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 11 May 2001 06:46:42 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 23:30:21 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a78ae32efsteve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <150041@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <150041@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <150041@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling wrote: > (could be a new Dilbert character, the guy in the office packed with > manuals). Sounds like my boss: no separate office he's just building a divider with manuals paperwork and CD's. -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 11 13:49:56 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150092 for opro ; Fri, 11 May 101 13:49:53 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989563705:20:01172:64; Fri, 11 May 2001 06:48:25 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2000429; 11 May 2001 6:47 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4B6kiT16531 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 11 May 2001 07:46:44 +0100 Received: from monsoon.mail.pipex.net (monsoon.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4B6kd516526 for ; Fri, 11 May 2001 07:46:40 +0100 Received: (qmail 21117 invoked from network); 11 May 2001 06:46:40 -0000 Received: from userbh01.uk.uudial.com (HELO RiscPC) (62.188.142.220) by smtp-1.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 11 May 2001 06:46:40 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 23:28:20 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a78ae03bbsteve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <149830@pilling.demon.co.uk> <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> <4a77d82c05steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> <4a User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article , John Pettigrew wrote: > In a previous message, Steven Pampling wrote: > > As to chosen method of binding: Ovation Pro original manual is in a > > three ring binder with its own box all in a neat vinyl > ?? Which version? Do you mean the new one, because my OP manual is wire > bound! Beebug version, and my manual /*was*/ wirebound originally. -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 11 13:50:16 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150097 for opro ; Fri, 11 May 101 13:50:05 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989581040:10:10391:88; Fri, 11 May 2001 11:37:20 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1105639; 11 May 2001 11:36 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4BBZPh17354 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 11 May 2001 12:35:25 +0100 Received: from apollo.le.ac.uk (apollo.le.ac.uk [143.210.16.125]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4BBZL517351 for ; Fri, 11 May 2001 12:35:21 +0100 Received: from happy.star.le.ac.uk ([143.210.36.58]) by apollo.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14yBCh-0003o3-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 11 May 2001 12:35:27 +0100 Received: (qmail 3007 invoked from network); 11 May 2001 11:35:44 -0000 Received: from xmm4.xra.le.ac.uk (143.210.40.54) by happy.star.le.ac.uk with SMTP; 11 May 2001 11:35:44 -0000 Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 12:35:22 +0100 (BST) From: Liam Gretton Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <150041@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Space Research Centre, University of Leicester, UK X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Thu 10 May, David Pilling wrote: > How about if we could agree on one format, it would be cheaper than > producing lots... I think I'll be happy with whatever format you choose. Ring bound or spiral bound sounds equally ok to me; I rarely use the manual, but I do like printed manuals, especially ones that can lay open flat at any page. > Or maybe the wonderful thing about having the manual on CD is that you can > print and bind it yourself. Doing either manual at A4 and punching it into > a ring binder should be easy enough. A PDF version would be very useful. I have the luxury/massive burden of three machines on my desk here, so I tend to keep electronic manuals on one of the Linux boxes so I can refer to it without cluttering my RISC OS desktop. I tried to create a PDF version by printing all the manual sections to a PS file, but the bloody 'append to file' option in !Printers appears to not work. Alternatively, I could concatenate the sections of the manual in OvPro itself, but I've not worked out how to do this yet. Ideally, I'd like a PDF manual with links in the contents and index pages to the relevant sections. -- Liam Gretton ljg@star.le.ac.uk Space Research Centre, http://www.src.le.ac.uk/ Physics and Astronomy Dept, phone +44 (0) 116 223 1039 University of Leicester, fax +44 (0) 116 252 2464 Leicester LE1 7RH, UK http://xmm4.xra.le.ac.uk/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 11 22:43:49 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150129 for opro ; Fri, 11 May 101 22:43:46 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989611063:10:20202:73; Fri, 11 May 2001 19:57:43 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1019486; 11 May 2001 19:56 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4BJuHw18787 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 11 May 2001 20:56:17 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4BJuD518784 for ; Fri, 11 May 2001 20:56:14 +0100 Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([158.152.204.98]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14yJ1Q-0009T7-0Y for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 11 May 2001 20:56:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 18:31:24 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a7916aa70john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4ec667784a.john@xl-cambridge.com> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02d (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article , John Percy Kerslake wrote: > I have a 2 ring binder (tablemate) that opens & lies flat. the rings are > NOT attached to the spine but to the back cover. It is indeed excellent. What is missing is the updated info to add to the binder! -- John Cartmell - Manchester, UK Fleur Designs -- FD Games - - - compact designer board games at: Acorn/RISC OS Show - - - Thornes Park Stadium, Wakefield 19th & 20th May 2001 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 11 22:43:49 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150128 for opro ; Fri, 11 May 101 22:43:46 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989600781:20:26697:66; Fri, 11 May 2001 17:06:21 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2026359; 11 May 2001 17:05 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4BH5Ht18234 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 11 May 2001 18:05:17 +0100 Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.173]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4BH5C518231 for ; Fri, 11 May 2001 18:05:12 +0100 Received: from modem-124.radon.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.62.252] helo=kerslakej2.freeserve.co.uk) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14yGLt-0006rT-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 11 May 2001 18:05:17 +0100 Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 19:42:42 +0100 (BST) From: John Percy Kerslake Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <4ec667784a.john@xl-cambridge.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Thu 10 May, John Pettigrew wrote: > In a previous message, Ray Dawson wrote: > > > In article <4a77d82c05steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk>, > > Steven Pampling wrote: > > > In article <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk>, > > > David Graddol wrote: > > > > Yep. I'd second that. A three-ring binder sounds a pain, takes > > > > more room on the shelf as well as on the desk. A wirebound manual > > > > can usually lie flat with the relevant page open. > > > Unfortunately a wirebound manual.. > > > 1. At the side of another wirebound manual starts mating... > > > 2. Gives you no clues on its spine what the contents are... > > 3. Always starts to unwind from the bottom if You have turned the pages > > back on it... > I have a 2 ring binder (tablemate) that opens & lies flat. the rings are NOT attached to the spine but to the back cover. -- J.P. Kerslake B.Sc., F.B.I.S. Pager 07626 - 235878 e-mail address:- Work = kerslake@sees.bangor.ac.uk Home = johnpercy@kerslakej2.freeserve.co.uk, Dyslexia Rules KO. RiscStation 64 meg 50 ns RAM. 9G HD, Ant INS. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 11 22:43:53 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150130 for opro ; Fri, 11 May 101 22:43:50 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989614154:10:15150:77; Fri, 11 May 2001 20:49:14 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1014854; 11 May 2001 20:48 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4BKm1s19004 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 11 May 2001 21:48:01 +0100 Received: from altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net (altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net [193.67.237.6]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4BKlv519001 for ; Fri, 11 May 2001 21:47:57 +0100 Received: from padua by altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net via 1Cust115.tnt55.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.117.28.115] with SMTP for id WAA12170 (8.8.8/1.3); Fri, 11 May 2001 22:48:03 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <006401c0da5b$d7dbcfc0$4d01a8c0@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: References: Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 22:20:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Fri, 11 May, Liam Gretton wrote: > > A PDF version would be very useful. I have the luxury/massive burden of > three machines on my desk here, so I tend to keep electronic manuals on one > of the Linux boxes so I can refer to it without cluttering my RISC OS > desktop. I tried to create a PDF version by printing all the manual sections > to a PS file, but the bloody 'append to file' option in !Printers appears to > not work. > As I recall correctly 'append to file' does work, but you have to start with that option already with the *first* print to file, not with the second. That is switch on 'append to file' and drag the icon -with the name you want- to a filer window before you make the first print. I can't give it a try (again) myself at this moment, but I have done it with files, where I printed the fonts first (downloading to the printer, in my case to the file) and appended the document afterwards. mrs. Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 11 22:43:54 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150131 for opro ; Fri, 11 May 101 22:43:50 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989601580:20:20321:77; Fri, 11 May 2001 17:19:40 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2020171; 11 May 2001 17:19 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4BHJ5j18329 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 11 May 2001 18:19:05 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4BHJ1518326 for ; Fri, 11 May 2001 18:19:01 +0100 Received: from [62.188.193.35] (helo=62.188.193.35) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14yGWl-0000Lg-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 11 May 2001 18:16:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Roger Foden) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 21:41:19 +0100 X-Organization: ArgoNet, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: Posty - Voyager Email 1.24 for RISC OS 3.70 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Wed 9 May 2001 (15:22:54 +0100), dgporter@argonet.co.uk wrote: > In article <7937a7774a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk>, > David Graddol wrote: > > > Yep. I'd second that. A three-ring binder sounds a pain, takes > > more room on the shelf as well as on the desk. A wirebound manual > > can usually lie flat with the relevant page open. > > Sorry, I disagree ... strongly. I second that! I've printed off the OvPro Manual from the CD, arranged to be two pages to an A4 sheet (landscape, sort of) put these into file pockets in an A4 4 ring file. The result is just what I want: four pages visible at once; physically strong and stable; stands upright on the shelf (unlike wire-bound volumes). I do not find the landscape layout any disadvantage - in many ways it is an advantage as the file can easily be propped open. Regards Roger Foden -- ___ n_ Roger & Jacki Foden \ ) (^o\. /^\ http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/roger.foden/ | | /_ / |___| roger.foden@argonet.co.uk / \/ \/ \_ _/ jacki.foden@argonet.co.uk __\__\___|o_____//_______ Walking or Botanising in Greece? sarpcsarpcsarpcsarpcsarpc Marengo Publications -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 11 22:44:04 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150135 for opro ; Fri, 11 May 101 22:44:02 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989616182:20:08121:66; Fri, 11 May 2001 21:23:02 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2007859; 11 May 2001 21:22 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4BLM0T19128 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 11 May 2001 22:22:00 +0100 Received: from altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net (altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net [193.67.237.6]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4BLLu519125 for ; Fri, 11 May 2001 22:21:56 +0100 Received: from padua by altrade.nijmegen.inter.nl.net via 1Cust125.tnt1.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.96.125] with SMTP for id XAA13282 (8.8.8/1.3); Fri, 11 May 2001 23:22:02 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000701c0da60$978734f0$4d01a8c0@padua> From: "Tonnie Demarteau" To: References: Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 23:22:42 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Fri, 11 May, Liam Gretton wrote: > A PDF version would be very useful. I have the luxury/massive burden of > three machines on my desk here, so I tend to keep electronic manuals on one > of the Linux boxes so I can refer to it without cluttering my RISC OS > desktop. I tried to create a PDF version by printing all the manual sections > to a PS file, but the bloody 'append to file' option in !Printers appears to > not work. To 'append' to my previous reply (I forgot that part), there is also the possibility to make one or (more) PDF out of many. At least this can be done with the Acrobat editor. The format of the pages don't have to be the same. The imported PDF can be multipaged. Where it must be inserted can be choosen. Pages can also be replaced or deleted. > > Ideally, I'd like a PDF manual with links in the contents and index pages to > the relevant sections. If you want more than thumbnails of the pages (in PDF readers that supports that), there still will be a lot of work to do ... mrs. Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 11 22:44:11 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150137 for opro ; Fri, 11 May 101 22:44:09 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989616753:20:24500:69; Fri, 11 May 2001 21:32:33 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2108379; 11 May 2001 21:32 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4BLW0r19202 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 11 May 2001 22:32:00 +0100 Received: from warrior-outbound.servers.plus.net ([212.159.14.227]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4BLVt519199 for ; Fri, 11 May 2001 22:31:55 +0100 Received: (qmail 8390 invoked from network); 11 May 2001 21:31:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tinshill.force9.net) (212.159.17.29) by warrior with SMTP; 11 May 2001 21:31:59 -0000 Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 21:51:00 +0100 (BST) From: Anthony Hilton Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) To: Ovation Pro List In-Reply-To: <4a78967517steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In on Thu 10 May, Steven Pampling wrote: > In article <4ec667784a.john@xl-cambridge.com>, > John Pettigrew wrote: > > It's sounding to me like people would quite like it unbound, so that > > they can use their preferred method. Personally, I'd use my comb-binding > > machine :-) > > Try re-doing that a few times (the holes break) > > As to chosen method of binding: Ovation Pro original manual is in a three > ring binder with its own box all in a neat vinyl (no spine identifier > though:( > Strange. My Opro manual is Wiro bound, the original Ovation manual was in a 3-ring binder (I still have the binder but have thrown the pages). Anthony Hilton -- ajh@tinshill.f9.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 12 13:12:17 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150150 for opro ; Sat, 12 May 101 13:12:12 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989648683:20:27319:64; Sat, 12 May 2001 06:24:43 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2112858; 12 May 2001 6:24 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4C1bAY19951 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 12 May 2001 02:37:10 +0100 Received: from orc.cs.waikato.ac.nz (orc.cs.waikato.ac.nz [130.217.241.22]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4C1b6519948 for ; Sat, 12 May 2001 02:37:06 +0100 Received: from modem38.slip.waikato.ac.nz ([130.217.97.137] helo=albion) by orc.cs.waikato.ac.nz with smtp (Exim 3.16 #6) id 14yOL6-00049U-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 12 May 2001 13:37:01 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Keith Hopper To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 13:08:07 +1200 Subject: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a79407acakh@waikato.ac.nz> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02b (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro ... and I have a lovely set of A6 post binders ... Seriously! I am of the opinion that putting a piece of A5 card on top and bottom of a stack of pages, wrapping and posting that out - everyone can then do their own thing - could be the cheapest printed solution! Keith -- City Desk Waikato University [PGP key available if desired] -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 12 13:12:36 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150153 for opro ; Sat, 12 May 101 13:12:33 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989664939:20:23798:64; Sat, 12 May 2001 10:55:39 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2023645; 12 May 2001 10:55 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4CAsuH21395 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 12 May 2001 11:54:56 +0100 Received: from hose.mail.pipex.net (hose.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.58]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4CAsq521392 for ; Sat, 12 May 2001 11:54:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 25266 invoked from network); 12 May 2001 10:54:51 -0000 Received: from userab53.test-uk.uudial.com (HELO RiscPC) (62.188.193.153) by smtp-4.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 12 May 2001 10:54:51 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 09:40:06 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a7969dc04steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a79407acakh@waikato.ac.nz> References: <4a79407acakh@waikato.ac.nz> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a79407acakh@waikato.ac.nz>, Keith Hopper wrote: > ... and I have a lovely set of A6 post binders ... > Seriously! I am of the opinion that putting a piece of A5 card on > top and bottom of a stack of pages, wrapping and posting that out - > everyone can then do their own thing - could be the cheapest printed > solution! True. And the nice and cheap for David means he can afford to develop new features without asking for more... ....no we won't pursue that otherwise he'll be in the poorhouse. -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 12 13:12:45 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150155 for opro ; Sat, 12 May 101 13:12:42 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989664949:20:24078:65; Sat, 12 May 2001 10:55:49 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2108242; 12 May 2001 10:55 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4CAt2l21402 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 12 May 2001 11:55:02 +0100 Received: from hose.mail.pipex.net (hose.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.58]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4CAsw521397 for ; Sat, 12 May 2001 11:54:58 +0100 Received: (qmail 25264 invoked from network); 12 May 2001 10:54:50 -0000 Received: from userab53.test-uk.uudial.com (HELO RiscPC) (62.188.193.153) by smtp-4.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 12 May 2001 10:54:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: Ovation Pro List Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 09:36:57 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a7969922dsteve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4a78967517steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In article , Anthony Hilton wrote: > Strange. My Opro manual is Wiro bound, the original Ovation manual was > in a 3-ring binder (I still have the binder but have thrown the pages). Ovation vs Ovation Pro. The original Ovation manual is around somewhere, but there are scrapped out manuals from work that provide the occasional 3 ring binder :-) Hence the non-standard format of the Ovation Pro manual. Recent ones have been 2 ring A5. -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 12 18:08:23 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150172 for opro ; Sat, 12 May 101 18:08:20 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989676212:20:14441:64; Sat, 12 May 2001 14:03:32 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2118887; 12 May 2001 14:03 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4CE2nK22055 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 12 May 2001 15:02:49 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4CE2i522051 for ; Sat, 12 May 2001 15:02:44 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14yZys-000AxE-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 12 May 2001 14:02:50 +0000 Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 14:14:34 GMT Message-Id: <150161@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro > Seriously! I am of the opinion that putting a piece of A5 card on top >and bottom of a stack of pages, wrapping and posting that out - everyone >can then do their own thing - could be the cheapest printed solution! But if thats what you want, all you need is a friend with a laser printer. For the sort of quantity we're talking about, the things are coming off a laser anyway. If shipping such stuff was worthwhile, if lasers were so hard to come by, someone would be able to do a .com business printing documents and posting them to people. I've just had a private email describing 3 ring binders as an abomination against humanity (this from someone who thinks Phillips screws are 'not bad'). I think things have gone far enough on this topic. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 12 18:08:23 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150173 for opro ; Sat, 12 May 101 18:08:21 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989676260:10:18197:64; Sat, 12 May 2001 14:04:20 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1017418; 12 May 2001 14:03 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4CE2kf22054 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 12 May 2001 15:02:46 +0100 Received: from cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.176]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4CAYj521330 for ; Sat, 12 May 2001 11:34:55 +0100 Received: from modem-61.fermium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.69.189] helo=redhotant.com) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14yWjb-0007If-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 12 May 2001 11:34:52 +0100 Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 11:34:27 +0100 From: Mark Daniel To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Problems with printing drawfiles with large scale factor Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4a78a5fffaowlart@owlart.co.uk> X-Organization: Mad Cow Software X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.64b User-Agent: POPstar/2.02 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R "Owl-Art Un-Ltd." was let out long enough to write: > I have got a document which has two very simple drawfiles, both scaled to > arounf 950%. However, when I come to print the document, they do not > print. Everything else works perfectly, but not these. If I scale the > drawfiles in Draw to approx the right size before dropping them into > OPro, they will then print happily. > > Has anyone else come across this problem, and is there a workarod/fix > other than scaling everything in Draw first? > Yeah, I've had that one. Didn't find a fix other than doubleing and halfing the apropriate scales. See ya, Mark. -- You only get *B*est *S*oftware *E*ver from Mad Cow Software E-mail WWW http://madsoft.cjb.net ICQ UIN - 26495898 ------- >>How do you keep a turkey in suspense? -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 12 18:08:27 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150175 for opro ; Sat, 12 May 101 18:08:25 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989677106:10:02576:64; Sat, 12 May 2001 14:18:26 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1106432; 12 May 2001 14:17 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4CEHDO22178 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 12 May 2001 15:17:13 +0100 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk (mail4.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.211]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4CEH7522171 for ; Sat, 12 May 2001 15:17:07 +0100 Received: from modem-138.oxygen.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.7.138] helo=beeston12) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14yaCn-0003Nn-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 12 May 2001 15:17:14 +0100 Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 14:53:46 +0100 From: Robin Phillips To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Problem with using the Index to the CD manual Message-ID: <8c9386794a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> X-Organization: home X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.64b User-Agent: POPstar/2.03 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Dear colleagues, I have recently needed several times to try and use the Index to the CD manual for the new OvationPro (I have version 2.63). I notice that after finding the entry you need you are given a PAGE number. This does not help me much to find the right FILE among those displayed in the directory. Wouldn't it be much better if the Index led us to the Filename? I suppose that some of these files are quite lengthy, so perhaps we need the filename followed by the page number. But really just giving the enquirer the page number is USELESS. Well, not useless, but it is rather time-consuming. Also, depressingly, I am starting to have my doubts about the index entries. I can find NOTHING under the heading Filters! Yours sincerely, Robin. -- Robin Phillips, 1, Newcastle Avenue, Beeston, Notts., NG9 1BT; Phone: +44 (0)115 922 4930 E-mail: rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 12 18:08:33 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150176 for opro ; Sat, 12 May 101 18:08:29 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989677108:10:02598:67; Sat, 12 May 2001 14:18:28 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1001578; 12 May 2001 14:17 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4CEHFN22179 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 12 May 2001 15:17:15 +0100 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk (mail4.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.211]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4CEH9522175 for ; Sat, 12 May 2001 15:17:09 +0100 Received: from modem-138.oxygen.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.7.138] helo=beeston12) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14yaCp-0003Nn-00; Sat, 12 May 2001 15:17:16 +0100 Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 15:05:39 +0100 From: Robin Phillips To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk, davidb@argonet.co.uk Subject: Advice on !MakeRTF needed please Message-ID: <36aa87794a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a64076d9cdavidb@argonet.co.uk> X-Organization: home X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.64b User-Agent: POPstar/2.03 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Dear David Breakwell and OvPro colleagues, I have recently upgraded to Ovation pro 2.63, and have now obtained !MakeRTF so as to be able to produce output in RTF to e-mail to others. To do this I apparently have to load OvationPro and afterwards double-click on the !MakeRTF icon. After that it will function. I believe !MakeRTF is an example of an output filter, in word-processing terms. I can find NO entry about Filters, either IN or OUT in the index to the CD manual for OvPro. I want to fix things so that every time I load OvationPro the RTF output option is available without going back to the !MakeRTF icon and double-clicking it. I copied the !MakeRTF icon into the directory called Filters, where input filters like !TransIMP are kept, in the hope that like them it would work without further intervention. This seems not bo be the case. Can someone please advise where I should place this output filter, or what alterations I need to make to the Boot file etc so that it will be invoked automatically whenever OvationPro is loaded? May I suggest to David Breakwell (as any advice on the subject seems well-hidden in the manual!) that this information would be useful to more MakeRTF users if it were added to the !ReadMe file which comes with his add-on? With best wishes, Robin. P.S. I know this is a separate topic, but is anyone tackling the need to upgrade the !TransWORD filter? R.Ph. -- Robin Phillips, 1, Newcastle Avenue, Beeston, Notts., NG9 1BT; Phone: +44 (0)115 922 4930 E-mail: rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 12 18:08:53 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150184 for opro ; Sat, 12 May 101 18:08:51 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989679269:10:06737:66; Sat, 12 May 2001 14:54:29 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1006026; 12 May 2001 14:53 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4CEOFG22376 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 12 May 2001 15:24:15 +0100 Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk (mail3.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.19]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4CEO7522373 for ; Sat, 12 May 2001 15:24:08 +0100 Received: from modem-19.gold.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.59.19] helo=kerslakej2.freeserve.co.uk) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14yaJZ-0006m2-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 12 May 2001 15:24:14 +0100 Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 12:29:02 +0100 (BST) From: John Percy Kerslake Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <4a7916aa70john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Fri 11 May, John Cartmell wrote: > In article , > John Percy Kerslake wrote: > > I have a 2 ring binder (tablemate) that opens & lies flat. the rings are > > NOT attached to the spine but to the back cover. > > It is indeed excellent. What is missing is the updated info to add to the > binder! > > -- > John Cartmell - Manchester, UK > Fleur Designs -- FD Games - - - compact designer board games at: > Acorn/RISC OS Show - - - Thornes Park Stadium, Wakefield > 19th & 20th May 2001 > > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk > with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message > Yes and would anyone else like extra maths functions in table mate? ie a full set of scientific calculator functions? -- J.P. Kerslake B.Sc., F.B.I.S. Pager 07626 - 235878 e-mail address:- Work = kerslake@sees.bangor.ac.uk Home = johnpercy@kerslakej2.freeserve.co.uk, Dyslexia Rules KO. RiscStation 64 meg 50 ns RAM. 9G HD, Ant INS. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 12 18:08:58 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150186 for opro ; Sat, 12 May 101 18:08:56 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989681093:10:27691:64; Sat, 12 May 2001 15:24:53 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1111932; 12 May 2001 15:23 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4CEO8J22371 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 12 May 2001 15:24:08 +0100 Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk (mail3.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.19]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4CEO1522368 for ; Sat, 12 May 2001 15:24:01 +0100 Received: from modem-19.gold.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.59.19] helo=kerslakej2.freeserve.co.uk) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14yaJQ-0006m2-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 12 May 2001 15:24:04 +0100 Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 12:31:16 +0100 (BST) From: John Percy Kerslake Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) To: Ovation Pro List In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Thu 10 May, Anthony Hilton wrote: > In on Thu 10 May, Steven Pampling wrote: > > In article <4ec667784a.john@xl-cambridge.com>, > > John Pettigrew wrote: > > > It's sounding to me like people would quite like it unbound, so that > > > they can use their preferred method. Personally, I'd use my comb-binding > > > machine :-) > > > > Try re-doing that a few times (the holes break) > > > > As to chosen method of binding: Ovation Pro original manual is in a three > > ring binder with its own box all in a neat vinyl (no spine identifier > > though:( > > > > Strange. My Opro manual is Wiro bound, the original Ovation manual was in a > 3-ring binder (I still have the binder but have thrown the pages). > > Anthony Hilton yes and like tablemate the rings are on the backcover not the spine. -- J.P. Kerslake B.Sc., F.B.I.S. Pager 07626 - 235878 e-mail address:- Work = kerslake@sees.bangor.ac.uk Home = johnpercy@kerslakej2.freeserve.co.uk, Dyslexia Rules KO. RiscStation 64 meg 50 ns RAM. 9G HD, Ant INS. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 20:11:07 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150198 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 20:11:05 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989687604:20:28206:66; Sat, 12 May 2001 17:13:24 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2028026; 12 May 2001 17:13 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4CHC4M23200 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 12 May 2001 18:12:04 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4CHBw523196 for ; Sat, 12 May 2001 18:11:59 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14ycw1-000LAc-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 12 May 2001 17:12:05 +0000 Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 18:12:32 GMT Message-Id: <150196@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Problems with printing drawfiles with large scale factor X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro I'd be interested to see (by private email) one of these problem Draw files (probably in an OPro doc, so as to preserve the situation). But bear in mind there's only so far you can stretch a piece of string. In other words there will be situations where scaling does go wrong. Depends on the specifics. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 20:11:08 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150199 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 20:11:05 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989687593:10:23915:66; Sat, 12 May 2001 17:13:13 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1023800; 12 May 2001 17:13 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4CHC3F23199 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 12 May 2001 18:12:03 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4CHBv523192 for ; Sat, 12 May 2001 18:11:57 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14ycw0-000LAc-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 12 May 2001 17:12:04 +0000 Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 18:10:37 GMT Message-Id: <150194@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Problem with using the Index to the CD manual X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Yes it would be a good idea if the index included chapter numbers as well as pages. We might see if that can be done. Filters (are not part of OPro so they are not in the main manual), but they are covered in the CD Guide document. As to TransWord. Would be good to do more on it. I suspect that Rupert Thompson has moved away from OPro, or RISC OS. So it probably needs someone to talk to him about it. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 20:11:31 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150207 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 20:11:28 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989693135:10:28933:66; Sat, 12 May 2001 18:45:35 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1112375; 12 May 2001 18:45 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4CIix423628 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 12 May 2001 19:44:59 +0100 Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.173]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4CIit523625 for ; Sat, 12 May 2001 19:44:55 +0100 Received: from modem-131.nevada.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.79.131] helo=localhost) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14yeNx-0000sg-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 12 May 2001 19:45:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: DAVE HUBBLE To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 19:03:38 +0100 Subject: Transparent frames Message-ID: <4a799d73e4daveh@daveh.freeserve.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <147608@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <147608@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/1.14i (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Please could someone tell me how I can make text and picture frames transparent. The answer is probably staring me in the face but I just cant see it. Cheers Dave -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 20:11:36 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150209 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 20:11:33 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989693716:10:06649:64; Sat, 12 May 2001 18:55:16 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1123851; 12 May 2001 18:55 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4CIQBT23592 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 12 May 2001 19:26:11 +0100 Received: from sand2.global.net.uk (sand2.global.net.uk [195.147.246.100]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4CIQ5523588 for ; Sat, 12 May 2001 19:26:05 +0100 Received: from p1fs02a03.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.162.32] helo=loopback) by sand2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ye5j-0002yD-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 12 May 2001 19:26:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 19:09:24 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a799dfb16dfs@ukgateway.net> In-Reply-To: <150161@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <150161@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.04-pre1 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <150161@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling wrote: > I've just had a private email describing 3 ring binders as an > abomination against humanity (this from someone who thinks Phillips > screws are 'not bad'). One question before this is closed... Are we talking Phillips screw heads or Pozidrive heads? (Different things BTW). ;-) Dave S -- _______________________________________________________________________ Dave Symes... dfs@ukgateway.net Also... df@dafs.freeserve.co.uk .. or... dave@triffid.co.uk http://www.dfs.ukgateway.net -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 20:11:46 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150213 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 20:11:43 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989694574:10:17527:64; Sat, 12 May 2001 19:09:34 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1017056; 12 May 2001 19:08 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4CIQ8023591 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 12 May 2001 19:26:08 +0100 Received: from sand2.global.net.uk (sand2.global.net.uk [195.147.246.100]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4CIQ3523584 for ; Sat, 12 May 2001 19:26:03 +0100 Received: from p1fs02a03.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.162.32] helo=loopback) by sand2.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ye5h-0002yD-00; Sat, 12 May 2001 19:26:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk, davidb@argonet.co.uk Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 19:05:40 +0100 Subject: Re: Advice on !MakeRTF needed please Message-ID: <4a799da38fdfs@ukgateway.net> In-Reply-To: <36aa87794a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> References: <4a64076d9cdavidb@argonet.co.uk> <36aa87794a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.04-pre1 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <36aa87794a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk>, Robin Phillips wrote: > I want to fix things so that every time I load OvationPro the RTF output > option is available without going back to the !MakeRTF icon and > double-clicking it. I copied the !MakeRTF icon into the directory > called Filters, where input filters like !TransIMP are kept, in the hope > that like them it would work without further intervention. This seems > not bo be the case. > Can someone please advise where I should place this output filter, or > what alterations I need to make to the Boot file etc so that it will be > invoked automatically whenever OvationPro is loaded? I'm a bit lazy... !MakeRTF is inside my OvPro Filters directory. I have a line in my desktop book file that auto runs it whenever I reboot the computer, so it's always available when and anytime I use OvPro. Filer_Run ADFS::HD4.$.OvationPro.Filters.!MakeRTF Cheers Dave S -- _______________________________________________________________________ Dave Symes... dfs@ukgateway.net Also... df@dafs.freeserve.co.uk .. or... dave@triffid.co.uk http://www.dfs.ukgateway.net -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 20:11:59 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150218 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 20:11:57 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989696086:10:07413:70; Sat, 12 May 2001 19:34:46 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1007354; 12 May 2001 19:34 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4CJXrX23986 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 12 May 2001 20:33:53 +0100 Received: from snowstorm.mail.pipex.net (snowstorm.mail.pipex.net [158.43.192.97]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4CJXn523983 for ; Sat, 12 May 2001 20:33:50 +0100 Received: (qmail 12787 invoked from network); 12 May 2001 19:33:55 -0000 Received: from userfm16.uk.uudial.com (HELO gtwywc97@ukgateway.net) (62.188.24.104) by smtp-6.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 12 May 2001 19:33:55 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Dawson To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk, davidb@argonet.co.uk Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 20:33:07 +0100 Subject: Re: Advice on !MakeRTF needed please Message-ID: <4a79a5a50frayd@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <36aa87794a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> References: <4a64076d9cdavidb@argonet.co.uk> <36aa87794a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 Organization: MagRay Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <36aa87794a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk>, Robin Phillips wrote: > To do this I apparently have to load OvationPro and afterwards > double-click on the !MakeRTF icon. After that it will function. > I believe !MakeRTF is an example of an output filter, in > word-processing terms. I can find NO entry about Filters, either IN or > OUT in the index to the CD manual for OvPro. > I want to fix things so that every time I load OvationPro the RTF > output option is available without going back to the !MakeRTF icon and > double-clicking it. I put MakeRTF inside the !OvnPro.Applets folder where it is booted every time OP is run. It works fine. Cheers, Ray D -- ..===================================. | M a g R a y Document Services | Ray Dawson Tel: 020 8864 7208 | the audio and braille specialists | rayd@argonet.co.uk '===================================' http://www.magray.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 20:12:03 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150221 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 20:12:02 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989708043:20:23116:64; Sat, 12 May 2001 22:54:03 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2022943; 12 May 2001 22:53 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4CLYla24597 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 12 May 2001 22:34:47 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4CLYe524588 for ; Sat, 12 May 2001 22:34:40 +0100 Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([158.152.204.98]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14yh2F-000EMD-0Y for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 12 May 2001 22:34:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 22:35:14 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a79b0d33ejohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a799dfb16dfs@ukgateway.net> References: <150161@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a799dfb16dfs@ukgateway.net> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02d (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a799dfb16dfs@ukgateway.net>, Dave Symes wrote: > One question before this is closed... Are we talking Phillips screw heads > or Pozidrive heads? (Different things BTW). ;-) Perhaps the reason I find the so bad is that I use whichever driver bit is to hand (invariably the wrong one). [Square is best!] -- John Cartmell - Manchester, UK Fleur Designs -- FD Games - - - compact designer board games at: Acorn/RISC OS Show - - - Thornes Park Stadium, Wakefield 19th & 20th May 2001 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 20:12:08 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150224 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 20:12:07 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989699777:10:06862:65; Sat, 12 May 2001 20:36:17 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1120247; 12 May 2001 20:35 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4CKXm324271 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 12 May 2001 21:33:48 +0100 Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4CKXi524268 for ; Sat, 12 May 2001 21:33:44 +0100 Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([158.152.204.98]) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14yg5G-000BoQ-0B for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 12 May 2001 20:33:51 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 21:35:29 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a79ab5ac2john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <150161@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <150161@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02d (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <150161@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling wrote: > I've just had a private email describing 3 ring binders as an > abomination against humanity (this from someone who thinks Phillips > screws are 'not bad'). At which point I declare the area of technology where American design remains supreme - screws [self-tapping with a square section inset in the head for positive grip]. Sun readers use Phillips screws and American designed operating systems - if only PC World stocked decent American imports... "I think things have gone far enough on this topic." Sorry! -- John Cartmell - Manchester, UK Fleur Designs -- FD Games - - - compact designer board games at: Acorn/RISC OS Show - - - Thornes Park Stadium, Wakefield 19th & 20th May 2001 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 20:12:14 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150226 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 20:12:10 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989701681:10:07839:74; Sat, 12 May 2001 21:08:01 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1129110; 12 May 2001 21:07 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4CL7Og24428 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 12 May 2001 22:07:24 +0100 Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com (mailout02.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.17]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4CL7J524425 for ; Sat, 12 May 2001 22:07:19 +0100 Received: from fwd06.sul.t-online.de by mailout02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14ygbt-0005A2-01; Sat, 12 May 2001 23:07:33 +0200 Received: from veni (520042741018-0001@[217.80.101.149]) by fmrl06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14ygbp-2CnYUyC; Sat, 12 May 2001 23:07:29 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Stefan Bellon To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk, davidb@argonet.co.uk Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 23:04:57 +0200 Subject: Re: Advice on !MakeRTF needed please Message-ID: <4a79ae0d6fsbellon@sbellon.de> In-Reply-To: <4a79a5a50frayd@argonet.co.uk> References: <4a64076d9cdavidb@argonet.co.uk> <36aa87794a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> <4a79a5a50frayd@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 Content-Type: text/plain X-Sender: 520042741018-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a79a5a50frayd@argonet.co.uk>, Ray Dawson wrote: > In article <36aa87794a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk>, Robin > Phillips wrote: [snip] > > I want to fix things so that every time I load OvationPro the RTF > > output option is available without going back to the !MakeRTF icon > > and double-clicking it. > I put MakeRTF inside the !OvnPro.Applets folder where it is booted > every time OP is run. It works fine. s/booted/run/ and you are correct. Greetings, Stefan. -- Stefan Bellon * * PGP 2.6 and GnuPG (OpenPGP) keys available from my home page Never get between a programmer and the coffee machine -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 20:12:30 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150231 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 20:12:27 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989705375:10:07978:64; Sat, 12 May 2001 22:09:35 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1007595; 12 May 2001 22:08 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4CLYnp24598 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 12 May 2001 22:34:49 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4CLYg524593 for ; Sat, 12 May 2001 22:34:42 +0100 Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([158.152.204.98]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14yh2G-000EMD-0Y for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 12 May 2001 22:34:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 22:37:07 +0100 Subject: Re: Transparent frames Message-ID: <4a79b0ff58john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a799d73e4daveh@daveh.freeserve.co.uk> References: <147608@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a799d73e4daveh@daveh.freeserve.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02d (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a799d73e4daveh@daveh.freeserve.co.uk>, DAVE HUBBLE wrote: > Please could someone tell me how I can make text and picture frames > transparent. The answer is probably staring me in the face but I just > cant see it. Object -> Modify ... Fill colour -- John Cartmell - Manchester, UK Fleur Designs -- FD Games - - - compact designer board games at: Acorn/RISC OS Show - - - Thornes Park Stadium, Wakefield 19th & 20th May 2001 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 20:12:43 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150233 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 20:12:41 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989708420:10:28737:65; Sat, 12 May 2001 23:00:20 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1123652; 12 May 2001 22:59 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4CLYkn24596 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 12 May 2001 22:34:46 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4CLYd524585 for ; Sat, 12 May 2001 22:34:39 +0100 Received: from cartmell.demon.co.uk ([158.152.204.98]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14yh2E-000EMD-0Y; Sat, 12 May 2001 22:34:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John Cartmell To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk, davidb@argonet.co.uk Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 22:33:28 +0100 Subject: Re: Advice on !MakeRTF needed please Message-ID: <4a79b0a9c0john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a79a5a50frayd@argonet.co.uk> References: <4a64076d9cdavidb@argonet.co.uk> <36aa87794a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> <4a79a5a50frayd@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02d (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a79a5a50frayd@argonet.co.uk>, Ray Dawson wrote: > I put MakeRTF inside the !OvnPro.Applets folder where it is booted every > time OP is run. It works fine. ...and the TransXXX filters? [where are they described in the manual? - I'm sure I've read it but...] -- John Cartmell - Manchester, UK Fleur Designs -- FD Games - - - compact designer board games at: Acorn/RISC OS Show - - - Thornes Park Stadium, Wakefield 19th & 20th May 2001 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 20:13:07 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150236 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 20:13:05 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989736800:10:02779:64; Sun, 13 May 2001 06:53:20 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1105182; 13 May 2001 6:53 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4D6olI26067 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 13 May 2001 07:50:47 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4D6oX526064 for ; Sun, 13 May 2001 07:50:43 +0100 Received: from [62.188.28.119] (helo=bi11.argonet.co.uk) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14ypfU-0001pw-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sun, 13 May 2001 07:47:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Richard Torrens To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 20:06:20 +0100 Subject: Re: OPro news (new manuals) Message-ID: <4a79a3317crichard@4qd.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a799dfb16dfs@ukgateway.net> References: <150161@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a799dfb16dfs@ukgateway.net> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a799dfb16dfs@ukgateway.net>, Dave Symes wrote: > In article <150161@pilling.demon.co.uk>, > David Pilling wrote: > > I've just had a private email describing 3 ring binders as an > > abomination against humanity (this from someone who thinks Phillips > > screws are 'not bad'). > One question before this is closed... Are we talking Phillips screw heads > or Pozidrive heads? (Different things BTW). ;-) > Dave S Probably Supadriv... -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Torrens 4QD manufacture speed controllers for battery electric motors. www site http://www.4QD.co.uk ---------- We use a RISC PC 32 bit RISC computer ---------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 20:18:07 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150270 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 20:18:05 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989760746:20:07796:65; Sun, 13 May 2001 13:32:26 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2007676; 13 May 2001 13:32 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4DDVEs27058 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 13 May 2001 14:31:14 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4DDVA527055 for ; Sun, 13 May 2001 14:31:10 +0100 Received: from [62.188.13.193] (helo=62.188.13.193) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14yvvI-0003G9-00; Sun, 13 May 2001 14:28:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: David Breakwell To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk, davidb@argonet.co.uk Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 08:28:23 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Advice on !MakeRTF needed please Message-ID: <4a79ec9f7cdavidb@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <36aa87794a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> References: <4a64076d9cdavidb@argonet.co.uk> <36aa87794a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02b (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <36aa87794a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk>, Robin Phillips wrote: > I want to fix things so that every time I load OvationPro the RTF output > option is available without going back to the !MakeRTF icon and > double-clicking it. I copied the !MakeRTF icon into the directory > called Filters, where input filters like !TransIMP are kept, in the hope > that like them it would work without further intervention. This seems > not bo be the case. Create a !Boot (filetype Obey) file with the following entries in the !MakeRTF directory. IconSprites .!Sprites Set MakeRTF$Dir Set File$Type_C32 RTF Set ffxserver$DDL2RTF : -T &B25 &C32 -R MakeRTF$Dir David -- --. --. --. --. : : --- --- .---------------------------------------------. |_| |_| | _ | | | | |_ | |Internet provider for all Acorn RISC machines| | | |\ | | | | |\| | | '---------------------------------------------' | | | \ |_| |_| | | |__ | davidb@argonet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 20:19:00 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150290 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 20:18:59 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989828109:20:19804:87; Mon, 14 May 2001 08:15:09 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2019700; 14 May 2001 8:14 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4E8CFv29634 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 14 May 2001 09:12:15 +0100 Received: from hose.mail.pipex.net (hose.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.58]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4E8CB529631 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 09:12:11 +0100 Received: (qmail 7080 invoked from network); 14 May 2001 08:12:17 -0000 Received: from userac16.test-uk.uudial.com (HELO gtwywc97@ukgateway.net) (62.188.193.215) by smtp-4.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 14 May 2001 08:12:17 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Dawson To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk, davidb@argonet.co.uk Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 00:12:56 +0100 Subject: Re: Advice on !MakeRTF needed please Message-ID: <4a7a3d9af4rayd@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a79b0a9c0john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> References: <4a64076d9cdavidb@argonet.co.uk> <36aa87794a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> <4a79a5a50frayd@argonet.co.uk> <4 User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 Organization: MagRay Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a79b0a9c0john@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, John Cartmell wrote: > In article <4a79a5a50frayd@argonet.co.uk>, > Ray Dawson wrote: > > I put MakeRTF inside the !OvnPro.Applets folder where it is booted > > every time OP is run. It works fine. > ..and the TransXXX filters? Mine are in Boot:Resources where any application can use them. Cheers, Ray D -- ..===================================. | M a g R a y Document Services | Ray Dawson Tel: 020 8864 7208 | the audio and braille specialists | rayd@argonet.co.uk '===================================' http://www.magray.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 20:19:03 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150291 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 20:19:01 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989830485:20:26673:66; Mon, 14 May 2001 08:54:45 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2025527; 14 May 2001 8:54 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4E8KLc29716 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 14 May 2001 09:20:21 +0100 Received: from holyrood.ed.ac.uk (holyrood.ed.ac.uk [129.215.16.14]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4E8KH529713 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 09:20:17 +0100 Received: from alfred.ed.ac.uk (dialup-133.publab.ed.ac.uk [129.215.38.133]) by holyrood.ed.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA15981 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 09:20:23 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 09:22:34 +0100 (BST) From: Alf Chamings Subject: Re: Problem with using the Index to the CD manual To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <150194@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Sat 12 May, David Pilling wrote: > Yes it would be a good idea if the index included chapter numbers as well as pages. > We might see if that can be done. > Or put the page numbers in the file names? Alf -- Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh, EH3 9YW, UK tel +44 131 536 3251 fax +44 131 536 3283 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 20:19:06 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150292 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 20:19:04 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989833889:20:24108:65; Mon, 14 May 2001 09:51:29 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2023949; 14 May 2001 9:51 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4E9nh830045 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 14 May 2001 10:49:43 +0100 Received: from inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (root@[193.114.241.3]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4E9nd530042 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 10:49:39 +0100 Received: from sharp.co.uk (aardog.sle.sharp.co.uk [192.16.16.173]) by inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA29487 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 10:45:44 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3AFFAA1A.396ECA6@sharp.co.uk> Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 10:49:14 +0100 From: Graham Jones Organization: Sharp Laboratories of Europe X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Barry Gray wrote: > I was always taught (and I myself teach) that in SI there is no space > between the quantity and the unit, for example 9m not 9 m, although of > course nine metres but not usually 9 metres and never nine m. There are some situations where it can be confusing if there is not a space between the value and the unit. I was recently typing a resistance of thirty ohms (30Ohm) and decided that in this case 30 Ohm was much better. Graham. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 20:19:18 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150297 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 20:19:17 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989844011:20:04254:63; Mon, 14 May 2001 12:40:11 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2100928; 14 May 2001 12:39 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4ECceQ30588 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 14 May 2001 13:38:40 +0100 Received: from inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (root@[193.114.241.3]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4ECca530585 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 13:38:36 +0100 Received: from sharp.co.uk (aardog.sle.sharp.co.uk [192.16.16.173]) by inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA02425 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 13:35:32 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3AFFD1E6.30305@sharp.co.uk> Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 13:39:02 +0100 From: Graham Jones Organization: Sharp Laboratories of Europe User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:0.9) Gecko/20010505 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: New applet - Japanese text input and kanji conversion References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Ian R. Platt wrote: > Hmm, that's the same for me - greyed out 'convert' I think I didn't explain this clearly enough in the documentation or web site - "Convert" is disabled unless you have one, or more, of the full Wadalab font sets installed. Since I haven't put any of these on the web yet you won't be able to use the conversion function. I hope to put one or two of the font sets up soon. In the future I may alter the applet to enable conversion all the time, but to warn if the required characters are unavailable. Graham. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 20:19:21 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150298 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 20:19:19 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989847619:20:19653:69; Mon, 14 May 2001 13:40:19 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab2019278; 14 May 2001 13:40 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4EDcPE30798 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 14 May 2001 14:38:25 +0100 Received: from mail1.hw.ac.uk (mail1.hw.ac.uk [137.195.170.11]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4EDcM530795 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 14:38:22 +0100 Received: from mail-r1.hw.ac.uk ([137.195.101.211] ident=exim) by mail1.hw.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14zIYO-00023M-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 14 May 2001 14:38:28 +0100 Received: from isambard.che.hw.ac.uk ([137.195.32.15]) by mail-r1.hw.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.16 #3) id 14zIYO-0006cm-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 14 May 2001 14:38:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Chris Johnson To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 14:33:47 +0100 Subject: Re: Problem with using the Index to the CD manual Message-ID: <4a7a8c6b2bC.A.Johnson@hw.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <8c9386794a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> References: <8c9386794a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro John van Vredenburch has kindly mailed me a small Ovation Pro document that simply cross references the page numbers to the chapters containing those page numbers. This document is now on the alt site, and can be found either by using the "what's new" page, or looking in the miscellaneous section at the end of the Resource page. Chris... -- Chris Johnson mailto: C.A.Johnson@hw.ac.uk (at work) mailto: opro@chris-johnson.org.uk (at home) ovpro web site http://www1.che.hw.ac.uk/~ovpro/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 20:20:01 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150308 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 20:20:00 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989861511:20:25421:64; Mon, 14 May 2001 17:31:51 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2128768; 14 May 2001 17:31 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4EHUFs31583 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 14 May 2001 18:30:15 +0100 Received: from cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.176]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4EHUB531580 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 18:30:11 +0100 Received: from modem-64.flonase.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.95.64] helo=beeston12) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14zMAj-0002Ln-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 14 May 2001 18:30:17 +0100 Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 18:30:01 +0100 From: Robin Phillips To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Bullets problem Message-ID: X-Organization: home X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.64b User-Agent: POPstar/2.03 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Dear colleagues, I am using OvationPro 2.63, and trying to learn how to insert bullet points, automatic paragraph numbering, and so on. I have read p.71 or the CD manual, and cannot reconcile it (and its illustration) with what is on the screen in front of me when I open a new document and hit ^F to get the modify format dialogue. I should be glad if someone could explain to me STEP BY STEP how to open a new document and turn on automatic bullet points, Presumably this also involves altering the font, as the bullets I want appear to be no, 108 in Selwyn (too large really), 143 in System, or 183 in Sidney (both rather small). It would be VERY helpful to have a corrected version of the text near the foot of p.71, seeing that it is evidently not up to date with the latest version. Is there any site established for us to get downloads of the corrections (which obviously will happen from time to time? Kind regards, Robin. -- Robin Phillips, 1, Newcastle Avenue, Beeston, Notts., NG9 1BT; Phone: +44 (0)115 922 4930 E-mail: rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 20:20:06 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150310 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 20:20:05 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989866748:20:19659:63; Mon, 14 May 2001 18:59:08 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab2019492; 14 May 2001 18:58 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4EIw4T31900 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 14 May 2001 19:58:04 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4EIw0531897 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 19:58:00 +0100 Received: from obanphys.demon.co.uk ([158.152.51.151]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14zNXi-000MrH-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 14 May 2001 18:58:07 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 19:56:59 +0100 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk From: Alan H Partridge Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) References: <3AFFAA1A.396ECA6@sharp.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <3AFFAA1A.396ECA6@sharp.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.01 S Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In message <3AFFAA1A.396ECA6@sharp.co.uk>, Graham Jones wrote >Barry Gray wrote: >> I was always taught (and I myself teach) that in SI there is no space >> between the quantity and the unit, for example 9m not 9 m, although of >> course nine metres but not usually 9 metres and never nine m. > >There are some situations where it can be confusing if there is not a space >between the value and the unit. I was recently typing a resistance of thirty >ohms (30Ohm) and decided that in this case 30 Ohm was much better. There should *always* be a space between the number and the unit. See http://www.npl.co.uk/npl/reference/si_conventions.html or http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/rules.html Cheers, Alan. -- Remember what the dormouse said ... Alan H Partridge mailto:perdrix@obanphys.demon.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 22:27:16 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150332 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 22:27:14 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989874598:20:08160:64; Mon, 14 May 2001 21:09:58 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2108652; 14 May 2001 21:09 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4EL93X32294 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 14 May 2001 22:09:03 +0100 Received: from norwegia.access.ch (mail.access.ch [195.112.71.134]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4EL8w532290 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 22:08:58 +0100 Received: from janvredenb.access.ch (megapop1-25.access.ch [212.161.128.25]) by norwegia.access.ch (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA24004 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 23:08:54 +0200 Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 23:02:01 +0200 (BST) From: Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) To: OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <3AFFAA1A.396ECA6@sharp.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: tevens Secretariaat Stichting Van Vredenburch; CIC member X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Mon 14 May, Graham Jones wrote: > Barry Gray wrote: > > I was always taught (and I myself teach) that in SI there is no space > > between the quantity and the unit, for example 9m not 9 m, although of > > course nine metres but not usually 9 metres and never nine m. > > There are some situations where it can be confusing if there is not a space > between the value and the unit. I was recently typing a resistance of thirty > ohms (30Ohm) and decided that in this case 30 Ohm was much better. Are you per chance contradicting yourself? Above is stated 9m and 9metres. It is then normal that you also state 30Ohm. In the latter case you can state it without a space if you use the Ohm symbol as to be found in the Sidney character set under no. 87. As you use the 'm' symbol for metres. JohnvV -- JM van Vredenburch tel +41 41 3706125 | RiscOS Schaedruetihalde 5 fax +41 41 3706120 | Computers CH - 6006 Luzern email janvredenb@access.ch | only :-) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 14 22:27:20 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150333 for opro ; Mon, 14 May 101 22:27:18 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989874605:20:08521:63; Mon, 14 May 2001 21:10:05 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2008405; 14 May 2001 21:09 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4EL8rD32289 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 14 May 2001 22:08:53 +0100 Received: from norwegia.access.ch (mail.access.ch [195.112.71.134]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4EL8n532286 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 22:08:49 +0100 Received: from janvredenb.access.ch (megapop1-25.access.ch [212.161.128.25]) by norwegia.access.ch (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA24010 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 23:08:55 +0200 Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 22:48:30 +0200 (BST) From: Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch Subject: Re: Problem with using the Index to the CD manual To: OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: tevens Secretariaat Stichting Van Vredenburch; CIC member X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Mon 14 May, Alf Chamings wrote: > On Sat 12 May, David Pilling wrote: > > Yes it would be a good idea if the index included chapter numbers as well as pages. > > We might see if that can be done. > > > Or put the page numbers in the file names? One topic appears on 7 different pages, mentioned in 7 different chapters. Accepting an average chapter length of 9 characters plus a hyphen plus 3 characters for the page number plus a comma to separate the entry from the following entry results in almost 100 characters. Add to that the item entered in the index you have about 125 to 140 characters on one (1) line. It is possible, but definitely not when using a 2 column A4 sized document. The present Index for OvPro version 2.60 has been more or less manually created because of technical problems. Next month I hope to create a complete new index. JohnvV -- JM van Vredenburch tel +41 41 3706125 | RiscOS Schaedruetihalde 5 fax +41 41 3706120 | Computers CH - 6006 Luzern email janvredenb@access.ch | only :-) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 15 02:13:24 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150344 for opro ; Tue, 15 May 101 02:13:21 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989876650:20:06845:63; Mon, 14 May 2001 21:44:10 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2006696; 14 May 2001 21:44 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4ELP0H32399 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 14 May 2001 22:25:00 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4ELOr532390 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 22:24:53 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14zPpr-00093Q-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 14 May 2001 21:24:59 +0000 Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 22:15:27 GMT Message-Id: <150327@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Bullets problem X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro You're right that the CD manual is not up to date with version 2.63, the following text has been added to page 71, to explain the two new number formats. 123a numbers for all levels except the last for which a lower case letter is used. 123A the same but with an upper case letter. Beyond that the manual is correct. I don't know if I can do any better than I have done in the manual at explaining how to use bullets. In brief... Define a new style which you'd like to apply to the bullet e.g. a Symbol font and a point size for it. Define a new style which you're going to apply to the text you want bulleting. Go to the Format window, enable bulleting, and set the style you defined in the previous step for the bullet. Apply the second style defined above to the text you want auto bulleting. Yes eventually there will have to be a way of making updated manuals available. However new versions of OPro come with text files which outline changes. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 15 02:13:29 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150347 for opro ; Tue, 15 May 101 02:13:26 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989877997:10:23929:70; Mon, 14 May 2001 22:06:37 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1104653; 14 May 2001 22:06 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4EM36432660 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 14 May 2001 23:03:06 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4EM32532657 for ; Mon, 14 May 2001 23:03:02 +0100 Received: from [62.188.10.122] (helo=62.188.10.122) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14zQO0-0006wN-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 14 May 2001 23:00:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "charles.hope" To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 17:38:10 +0100 Subject: Re: RTF files Message-ID: <4a7a9d4cd9charles.hope@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a78a71db9davidb@argonet.co.uk> References: <149633@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a77e585dacharles.hope@argonet.co.uk> <4a78a71db9davidb@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02c (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 10 May, David Breakwell wrote: > In article <4a77e585dacharles.hope@argonet.co.uk>, > charles.hope wrote: > > I find that if I try to import an RTF File derived directly from a Word > > document, there is a lot of disc activity but no text appears in the > > frame. I can, however, load the RTF file into a new document and then > > copy it over to the one where I want it. > > If I take the same Word document, load it into EasiWriter and save as > > RTF from there, I can put this straight into the frame of an existing > > document. > I've not tried that (I don't have access to word @ home) but I guess > this could be because my exporter includes style info - easiwriter RTF > does not - and maybe word dislikes this ? That's the only major > difference between the RTF I generate and the stuff Easiwriter makes. I think you're looking at this the wrong way round. I'm trying to import into Ov Pro, not from it. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 15 18:17:15 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150377 for opro ; Tue, 15 May 101 18:17:14 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989936463:20:21195:64; Tue, 15 May 2001 14:21:03 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2108207; 15 May 2001 14:20 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4FE2JM02733 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 15 May 2001 15:02:19 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4FC6Z502398 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 13:06:35 +0100 Received: from [62.188.151.80] (helo=62.188.151.80) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14zdYR-0004f9-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 15 May 2001 13:03:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Mijas Software) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 11:46:38 +0100 X-Organization: ArgoNet, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: Posty - Voyager Email 1.24 for RISC OS 4.02 Subject: Re: RTF files Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Mon 14 May 2001 (17:38:10 +0100), charles.hope@argonet.co.uk wrote: > I think you're looking at this the wrong way round. I'm trying to > import (RTF) into Ov Pro, not from it. > You can import a single RTF (text) document into OPro by dropping the rtf file (suitably typed) onto the OPro icon bar icon, that is assuming you have the RTF import applet loaded. If you want to add the contents of an RTF file to an existing document, you need to import the rtf into a new document and then copy into your existing document. N.N.B With ImageFs2 loaded, Techwriter will import both text and (some types of) graphics from RTF files. You can then transfer to OPro. -- aoline@argonet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 15 18:17:37 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150380 for opro ; Tue, 15 May 101 18:17:35 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989935673:10:07263:168; Tue, 15 May 2001 14:07:53 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1107223; 15 May 2001 14:07 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4FE2FT02728 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 15 May 2001 15:02:15 +0100 Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow024o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.126]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4F7CX501604 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 08:12:33 +0100 Received: from bgba01526.blueyonder.co.uk ([213.48.114.45]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 15 May 2001 08:14:39 +0100 Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 08:13:00 +0100 (BST) From: Barry Gray Subject: SI: was hard spaces To: OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Barry Gray E-mail: barrygray@blueyonder.co.uk X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Mon 14 May, Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch wrote: > On Mon 14 May, Graham Jones wrote: > > Barry Gray wrote: > > > I was always taught (and I myself teach) that in SI there is no space > > > between the quantity and the unit, for example 9m not 9 m, although of > > > course nine metres but not usually 9 metres and never nine m. > > > > There are some situations where it can be confusing if there is not a space > > between the value and the unit. I was recently typing a resistance of thirty > > ohms (30Ohm) and decided that in this case 30 Ohm was much better. > > Are you per chance contradicting yourself? > > Above is stated 9m and 9metres. It is then normal that you also > state 30Ohm. In the latter case you can state it without a space > if you use the Ohm symbol as to be found in the Sidney character set > under no. 87. As you use the 'm' symbol for metres. > > JohnvV > Keith Bamford wrote that I was wrong to teach that SI *explicitly* requires 9m not 9m and he is right (thanks Keith, and I have changed my web site), although this usage is very common indeed. There is of course a space in nine metres (and also in 9 metres and nine m, although these are not usually regarded as good English). The only time when there might be confusion with this usage is with l for litres but of course the litre is not a SI unit. But can anyone point me to a reference which *explicitly* states that in SI the use of 9m is wrong? FTR SI explicitly states that where a unit is names after a person the abbreviated unit is written as a capital but the full unit without, for example 10N but ten newtons, so you would write ohms not Ohms. -- Barry Gray http://www.barrygray.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 15 18:17:39 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150381 for opro ; Tue, 15 May 101 18:17:38 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989935693:10:08357:83; Tue, 15 May 2001 14:08:13 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1007886; 15 May 2001 14:07 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4FE2K702734 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 15 May 2001 15:02:20 +0100 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150362 for ovationp-l ; Tue, 15 May 101 14:50:09 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989919901:10:14839:28; Tue, 15 May 2001 09:45:01 GMT Received: from mail11.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.23]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1014112; 15 May 2001 9:44 GMT Received: from modem-132.yellow-billed-loon.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.220.132] helo=localhost) by mail11.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14zbN3-0004Hh-00 for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk; Tue, 15 May 2001 10:44:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Simon Jones To: OvationPro Mailing List Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 09:51:57 +0100 Subject: 2.60 bug/niggles/suggestion Message-ID: <4a7af673bfsimon.jones@capelinmedia.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02b (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.01b12 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Some points have been driving me nuts since I started using 2.60 and 2.63, and I can't find anywhere where the issues are described (I won't mention the heart-wrenching issue of whether a manual should be wire or spiral bound. I'm happy with disc-based, but would like it to be hyperlinked (sorry David)): Bug (2.63 - this is not a problem in 2.60): start a new line, beginning with a nukber(full stop)(space)any words and finsih with(colon or semi-colon, and maybe some other punctuation)return - causes OPro to crash. Niggles: 1) Highlighting a word also highlights the SPACE in front of it - I preferred the previous action of highlighting the space AFTER. 2) Highlighting a paragraph includes the RETURN after it: this is not a problem (it is useful) until applying s style for which "paragraph apply" has been selected - because the paragraph following also gets the style applied, which is deeply annoying. 3) The auto-numbering seems not to be always-on and not an option - and it is often a real pain. The feature whereby the return takes you to the same point the previous para started (ie two tabs in , if that is how the previous para started) is however more use than hindrance. The auto-capitalisation of the first letter of a new para is also very annoying - to shift-char when wanted is so natural to most users that this feature is unnecessary. 4) Dictionary: the dictionary supplied with OPro dislikes words such as won't, don't etc, but happily suggests wont, dont and so on. This seems to contravene the rules of spelling I learnt some years ago! Can the dictionary be tweaked to include apostrophes, or will apostrophes always cause OPro to analyse separate parts of words? Suggestions: The issue of font families in all their many variants has been raised before. I would like to suggest that the Text Frame toolbar be made more intelligent, so that below the font name appears buttons for all the weights available (so as well as Normal. Bold and Italic we may sometimes get Black, Condensed, Cond, Light, Extnd etc. This means it needs to blank options that aren't available for the selected font. An alternative may be to have N,B,I as is, then a drop-down that is like the second drop-down of the font selection - ie showing all the wieghts for the available font - requires just one button, and it is easier to find the weight you want without going all through the font drop-down which is often very long (=slow). This sme pribcipal could be added to the Text window in Edit Style and the Modify Text (F6) menu. Cheers Simon -- Simon Jones - simon.jones@capelinmedia.co.uk - Clitheroe, Lancs Freelance Sound Recordist | http://www.capelinmedia.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 15 18:17:50 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150386 for opro ; Tue, 15 May 101 18:17:49 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989942294:10:19024:99; Tue, 15 May 2001 15:58:14 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1124602; 15 May 2001 15:57 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4FEqkU03141 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 15 May 2001 15:52:46 +0100 Received: from tvweb1.hiway.co.uk (root@tvweb1.hiway.co.uk [195.12.1.131]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4FEqg503138 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 15:52:42 +0100 Received: from websrv.quantel.com ([195.12.20.51]) by tvweb1.hiway.co.uk (8.11.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f4FEqio12564 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 15:52:44 +0100 Subject: Re: 2.60 bug/niggles/suggestion To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk From: Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:38:20 +0100 Message-ID: X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on Websrv/QuantelWeb(Release 5.0.6a |January 17, 2001) at 05/15/2001 03:57:21 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro > Bug (2.63 - this is not a problem in 2.60): > start a new line, beginning with a nukber(full stop)(space)any words > and finsih with(colon or semi-colon, and maybe some other > punctuation)return - causes OPro to crash. Are you sure you haven't got an applet loaded that is causing this. My immediate thought is the !List (or whatever it was called) applet from Levens. This did something if you typed a colon. Just a thought Andy Ling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 15 19:12:10 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150396 for opro ; Tue, 15 May 101 19:12:05 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989948088:10:18511:76; Tue, 15 May 2001 17:34:48 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1018483; 15 May 2001 17:34 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4FHXgG03674 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 15 May 2001 18:33:42 +0100 Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4FFLQ503232 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 16:21:26 +0100 Received: from riscpc.at.home ([213.107.105.170]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010515152134.QHO283.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@riscpc.at.home> for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 16:21:34 +0100 Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 16:21:04 +0100 From: John Pettigrew To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: 2.60 bug/niggles/suggestion Message-ID: <98131a7b4a.john@xl-cambridge.com> References: <4a7af673bfsimon.jones@capelinmedia.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a7af673bfsimon.jones@capelinmedia.co.uk> X-Organization: XL Cambridge User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10d (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.22 (27 Nov 1998) patch-3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In a previous message, Simon Jones wrote: > Bug (2.63 - this is not a problem in 2.60): > start a new line, beginning with a nukber(full stop)(space)any words and > finsih with(colon or semi-colon, and maybe some other punctuation)return - > causes OPro to crash. not reproducible here using 2.63... Perhaps an applet is causing the problem? > Niggles: > 1) Highlighting a word also highlights the SPACE in front of it - I > preferred the previous action of highlighting the space AFTER. Again, not here HTH, John -- John Pettigrew XL Cambridge - Contract and freelance editing and writing Life sciences specialist - molecular biology, genetics, biotechnology john@xl-cambridge.com http://www.xl-cambridge.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 15 19:12:18 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150397 for opro ; Tue, 15 May 101 19:12:14 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989948090:10:18468:84; Tue, 15 May 2001 17:34:50 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1107654; 15 May 2001 17:34 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4FHXjN03675 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 15 May 2001 18:33:45 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4FHXd503671 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 18:33:39 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14zihe-000IN9-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 15 May 2001 17:33:46 +0000 Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 18:20:44 GMT Message-Id: <150389@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: 2.60 bug/niggles/suggestion X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Firstly, can you (and John Pettigrew) please post to the list from the addresses you're subscribed from, and the list address is now ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk (not what you used). >start a new line, beginning with a nukber(full stop)(space)any words >and finsih with(colon or semi-colon, and maybe some other >punctuation)return - causes OPro to crash. and >3) The auto-numbering seems not to be always-on and not an option - and Sounds to me a bit like one of the auto numbering appletsbeing installed. >The auto-capitalisation of the first letter of a new para is also very Super shift applet? >4) Dictionary: the dictionary supplied with OPro dislikes words such as >won't, don't etc Oh no it doesn't. I think you've got another dictionary installed there. (probably from one of my other products, so I'm still guilty) David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 15 22:57:03 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150404 for opro ; Tue, 15 May 101 22:57:01 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989950716:20:00875:63; Tue, 15 May 2001 18:18:36 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2110204; 15 May 2001 18:18 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4FIHqe03983 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 15 May 2001 19:17:52 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4FIHn503980 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 19:17:49 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14zjON-000Mas-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 15 May 2001 18:17:55 +0000 Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 19:16:17 GMT Message-Id: <150398@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: 2.60 bug/niggles/suggestion X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R >Firstly, can you (and John Pettigrew) please post to the list from >the addresses you're subscribed from, and the list address is now >ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk (not what you used). In my impatience I said this wrong. Simon Jones posted to the wrong address. John Pettigrew, Barry Gray and Mijas Softwaare posted from non-subscribed addresses today. Sorry to go on about this, really its a software problem. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 15 22:57:17 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150410 for opro ; Tue, 15 May 101 22:57:14 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989962690:10:29562:69; Tue, 15 May 2001 21:38:10 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1029004; 15 May 2001 21:37 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4FLahx04657 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 15 May 2001 22:36:43 +0100 Received: from norwegia.access.ch (mail.access.ch [195.112.71.134]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4FLaa504653 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 22:36:37 +0100 Received: from janvredenb.access.ch (megapop4-25.access.ch [212.161.128.217]) by norwegia.access.ch (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA30543 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 23:36:38 +0200 Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 18:51:07 +0200 (BST) From: Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch Subject: Re: SI: was hard spaces; and the 'ell' syndrome To: OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: tevens Secretariaat Stichting Van Vredenburch; CIC member X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Tue 15 May, Barry Gray wrote: snip a lot > FTR SI explicitly states that where a unit is names after a person the > abbreviated unit is written as a capital but the full unit without, for > example 10N but ten newtons, so you would write ohms not Ohms. Indeed! I overlooked that aspect. By the way: the chap's name was Ohm. He is honoured with the unit "ohm", which has a plural "ohms". The abbreviation for litre is no problem when handwritten. The character goes from mid-left to the right, then to the top and then down through the middle, etc. Clearly distinguishable from the number 1 (one). The first mechanical typewriters used the same key for 'one' and 'ell'. As was also done for 'zero' and the letter 'O'. I have a feeling that whoever created the ASCII set looked at the typewriter set of letters overlooked the marked differences to be found in a handwritten set. The question is whether this state of affairs must continue to be accepted for DTP work? Or that it is time to update the fonts used. Or demand such! Where I need to distinguish clearly in documents the difference between a number 1 and a letter ell, I use a font where the letter ell has been changed to resemble more the handwritten character. I fear this font is copyright protected but intend to discuss this problem with the copyright holders at Wakefield. JohnvV -- JM van Vredenburch tel +41 41 3706125 | RiscOS Schaedruetihalde 5 fax +41 41 3706120 | Computers CH - 6006 Luzern email janvredenb@access.ch | only :-) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 16 14:03:13 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150437 for opro ; Wed, 16 May 101 14:03:09 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989967601:10:15551:65; Tue, 15 May 2001 23:00:01 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1116267; 15 May 2001 22:59 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4FMwYd04916 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 15 May 2001 23:58:34 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4FMwU504913 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 23:58:30 +0100 Received: from [62.188.17.117] (helo=62.188.17.117) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14znjK-0004ov-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 15 May 2001 23:55:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "charles.hope" To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 18:47:23 +0100 Subject: Re: RTF files Message-ID: <4a7b2778f2charles.hope@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Pluto/2.02c (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 15 May, Mijas Software wrote: > On Mon 14 May 2001 (17:38:10 +0100), charles.hope@argonet.co.uk wrote: > > I think you're looking at this the wrong way round. I'm trying to > > import (RTF) into Ov Pro, not from it. > > > You can import a single RTF (text) document into OPro by dropping the > rtf file (suitably typed) onto the OPro icon bar icon, that is assuming > you have the RTF import applet loaded. > If you want to add the contents of an RTF file to an existing > document, you need to import the rtf into a new document and then copy > into your existing document. That is what happens if the RTF document come from Word via a PC, but if I export it from Easiwriter as RTF, I can drop it straight into an existing document. My query was why the difference> > N.N.B With ImageFs2 loaded, Techwriter will import both text and > (some types of) graphics from RTF files. You can then transfer to OPro. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 16 14:03:17 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150439 for opro ; Wed, 16 May 101 14:03:15 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989968583:10:00248:65; Tue, 15 May 2001 23:16:23 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1108174; 15 May 2001 23:16 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4FNFpd05012 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 16 May 2001 00:15:51 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4FNFk505009 for ; Wed, 16 May 2001 00:15:46 +0100 Received: from useraa47.uk.uudial.com ([62.188.130.47] helo=argonet.co.uk ident=Ian) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14znzz-0005KA-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 16 May 2001 00:13:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ian Gooding To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 00:13:38 +0100 Subject: Paranoia Message-ID: <4a7b45578cian.gooding@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Is it just my setup? Whenever I forget myself and type my address and postcode into OPro, I get OPro freezing. It responds to break (thank goodness for RISC OS 4 :-)), and I can import a text file containing these details without a problem, but typing a line containing "SL3 7BJ" is enough to cause this. Is this the same "bug" as Simon Jones is reporting? Or have I stuffed my dictionary in some novel way? -- ian.gooding@argonet.co.uk tel: UK + (1753) 527903 http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/ian.gooding -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 16 14:03:49 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150451 for opro ; Wed, 16 May 101 14:03:46 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990005714:20:13328:229; Wed, 16 May 2001 09:35:14 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2111008; 16 May 2001 9:24 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4G9NTE06605 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 16 May 2001 10:23:29 +0100 Received: from mail11.svr.pol.co.uk (mail11.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.23]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4G9NP506602 for ; Wed, 16 May 2001 10:23:25 +0100 Received: from modem-56.saint-bernard.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.25.204.56] helo=localhost) by mail11.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14zxWj-0008LR-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 16 May 2001 10:23:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Simon Jones To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 08:50:01 +0100 Subject: Re: 2.60 bug/niggles/suggestion Message-ID: <4a7b749e3fsimon.jones@capelinmedia.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <150389@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <150389@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02b (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.01b12 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by omega.barnet.ac.uk id f4G9NQ506603 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by omega.barnet.ac.uk id f4G9NTF06605 Status: R In article <150389@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling wrote: > Simon Jones posted to the wrong address. > the list address is now > ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk (not what you used). Sorry,. Address book now updated :-) > >start a new line, beginning with a nukber(full stop)(space)any words > >and finsih with(colon or semi-colon, and maybe some other > >punctuation)return - causes OPro to crash. > and > >3) The auto-numbering seems not to be always-on and not an option - > >and > Sounds to me a bit like one of the auto numbering applets=A0being > installed. Thanks David and Andy and John - I've removed !List and all is happy!=20 > >The auto-capitalisation of the first letter of a new para is also > >very > Super shift applet? Guilty! > >4) Dictionary: the dictionary supplied with OPro dislikes words such > >as won't, don't etc > Oh no it doesn't. I think you've got another dictionary installed > there. (probably from one of my other products, so I'm still guilty) Possible - I can't remember whether 2.60 was completely clean, or absorbed a dictionary that had been used in earlier version. I guess I could re-install the dictionary from the 2.60 CD. Am I right in thinking that any words added to the dictionary will be lost (ie I can find the !HyphDict and !MainDict, and the absence of a !UserDict or suchlike suggests words are added to the main dictionary? Or is the UserDict stored in a different location within OPro? Many thanks=20 Cheers Simon -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 16 16:10:36 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150476 for opro ; Wed, 16 May 101 16:10:34 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990018359:20:12287:107; Wed, 16 May 2001 13:05:59 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2121683; 16 May 2001 13:01 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4GD1DN07302 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 16 May 2001 14:01:13 +0100 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.45]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4FIK9504020 for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 19:20:09 +0100 Received: from neil.dickson.ukonline.co.uk (tnt-10-375.easynet.co.uk [212.134.17.119]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B7C2917C1B for ; Tue, 15 May 2001 19:19:55 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 19:01:00 +0100 From: Neil Dickson To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Bullets problem Message-ID: <50b8287b4a.neil@neil.dickson.ukonline.co.uk> References: In-Reply-To: X-Organization: Home User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.50 (MsgServe/1.50) (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In message Robin Phillips wrote: > I am using OvationPro 2.63, and trying to learn how to insert bullet > points, automatic paragraph numbering, and so on. I have read p.71 or the CD > manual, and cannot reconcile it (and its illustration) with what is on the > screen in front of me when I open a new document and hit ^F to get the modify > format dialogue. Mentioning that you couldn't get the illustation to reconcile jogged my memory to a problem I once had... I'd apparently failed to do something while upgrading as I eventually discovered that I didn't have the correct templates file installed. What is the timestamp on the file !OvnPro.!OvnResDir.UK.Templates ? (The one on the CD is 28 Jun 2000.) -- Neil Dickson -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 16 16:10:45 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150480 for opro ; Wed, 16 May 101 16:10:43 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990022774:20:10242:172; Wed, 16 May 2001 14:19:34 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2105055; 16 May 2001 14:16 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4GDbKe07487 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 16 May 2001 14:37:20 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4GDbD507479 for ; Wed, 16 May 2001 14:37:14 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 1501UO-000Dcn-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 16 May 2001 13:37:20 +0000 Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 14:31:19 GMT Message-Id: <150464@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Paranoia X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hi, >Whenever I forget myself and type my address and postcode into OPro, I get >OPro freezing. It responds to break (thank goodness for RISC OS 4 :-)), One might bring up the stuff about "is it an applet", try Control + Escape and see if that regains control. >and I can import a text file containing these details without a problem, >but typing a line containing "SL3 7BJ" is enough to cause this. Is this >the same "bug" as Simon Jones is reporting? Or have I stuffed my >dictionary in some novel way? Well yes it could be an applet. But you're quite right it could be a dictionary problem. Use Edit dictionary and see if your postcode is in there. Sort of interesting that most things are word based, so one would expect SL3 to cause a crash (or 7BJ), anyway one triplet on its own. (unless you type it with a non-breaking space) David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 16 16:10:49 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150482 for opro ; Wed, 16 May 101 16:10:46 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990025335:20:11541:300; Wed, 16 May 2001 15:02:15 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2123570; 16 May 2001 14:58 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4GDbIw07486 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 16 May 2001 14:37:18 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4GDbC507475 for ; Wed, 16 May 2001 14:37:12 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 1501UE-000Dcn-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 16 May 2001 13:37:19 +0000 Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 14:28:09 GMT Message-Id: <150462@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: 2.60 bug/niggles/suggestion X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >Possible - I can't remember whether 2.60 was completely clean, or >absorbed a dictionary that had been used in earlier version. I think it would be a dictionary from something like Spell or CrossStar >I guess I could re-install the dictionary from the 2.60 CD. Am I right >in thinking that any words added to the dictionary will be lost Yes, correct. >(ie I >can find the !HyphDict and !MainDict, and the absence of a !UserDict or >suchlike suggests words are added to the main dictionary? Or is the >UserDict stored in a different location within OPro? UserDict should be in !UserWords (if you've installed it). When you add a word OPro will show you what you're adding it to. You can also look at the timestamp on !MainDict, and you can observe the number of words in it. The one which comes with OPro has about 60K words, the ones from my other programs, have around 130K. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 16 16:10:53 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150484 for opro ; Wed, 16 May 101 16:10:51 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990021414:10:15414:67; Wed, 16 May 2001 13:56:54 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1120183; 16 May 2001 13:56 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4GDbN307495 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 16 May 2001 14:37:23 +0100 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150448 for ovationp-l ; Wed, 16 May 101 14:03:38 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 989988572:10:12893:0; Wed, 16 May 2001 04:49:32 GMT Received: from snowy.kiwilink.co.nz ([202.27.215.2]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1116098; 16 May 2001 4:49 GMT Received: from timk.ns.planet.gen.nz (ppp-58.kiwilink.co.nz [202.27.215.124]) by snowy.kiwilink.co.nz (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f4G4jqM22311 for ; Wed, 16 May 2001 16:45:53 +1200 (NZST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Tim King To: OvationPro Mailing List Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 16:42:53 +1300 Subject: Re: 2.60 bug/niggles/suggestion Message-ID: <4a7b5dfe07tim@de-sig.co.nz> In-Reply-To: <4a7af673bfsimon.jones@capelinmedia.co.uk> References: <4a7af673bfsimon.jones@capelinmedia.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a7af673bfsimon.jones@capelinmedia.co.uk>, Simon Jones wrote: > 2) Highlighting a paragraph includes the RETURN after it: this is not a > problem (it is useful) until applying s style for which "paragraph > apply" has been selected - because the paragraph following also gets > the style applied, which is deeply annoying. Don't highlight the paragraph. It just has to contain the caret. Tim -- Tim King... de-Sig. +64 9 478.3114 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 16 18:07:48 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150488 for opro ; Wed, 16 May 101 18:07:46 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990026105:10:01353:65; Wed, 16 May 2001 15:15:05 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1029734; 16 May 2001 15:13 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4GDbTB07498 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 16 May 2001 14:37:30 +0100 Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow035o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.121]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4G7B3506174 for ; Wed, 16 May 2001 08:11:03 +0100 Received: from bgba01526.blueyonder.co.uk ([213.48.114.99]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 16 May 2001 07:13:10 +0000 Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 08:11:45 +0100 (BST) From: Barry Gray Subject: Re: SI: was hard spaces - Thanks To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Barry Gray E-mail: barrygray@blueyonder.co.uk X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Mon 14 May, Alan H Partridge wrote: > In message <3AFFAA1A.396ECA6@sharp.co.uk>, Graham Jones > wrote > > > >Barry Gray wrote: > >> I was always taught (and I myself teach) that in SI there is no space > >> between the quantity and the unit, for example 9m not 9 m, although of > >> course nine metres but not usually 9 metres and never nine m. > > > >There are some situations where it can be confusing if there is not a space > >between the value and the unit. I was recently typing a resistance of thirty > >ohms (30Ohm) and decided that in this case 30 Ohm was much better. > > There should *always* be a space between the number and the unit. > > See http://www.npl.co.uk/npl/reference/si_conventions.html or > > http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/rules.html > > Cheers, > > Alan. Thanks - have modified my web site and included a link to the first of these references. One of the nice things about the web is that if you make a mistake there is always someone willing to help you to put it right. Thanks to everyone. -- Barry Gray http://www.barrygray.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 16 18:07:54 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150490 for opro ; Wed, 16 May 101 18:07:52 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990029264:10:08116:82; Wed, 16 May 2001 16:07:44 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1007724; 16 May 2001 16:06 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4GG2c508332 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 16 May 2001 17:02:38 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4GG2Z508329 for ; Wed, 16 May 2001 17:02:35 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 1503l3-000Ic6-0X for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 16 May 2001 17:02:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 16:48:36 +0100 Subject: Re: 2.60 bug/niggles/suggestion Message-ID: <4a7ba06f0bJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <150462@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <150462@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R On 16 May, David Pilling wrote: > UserDict should be in !UserWords (if you've installed it). When you add > a word OPro will show you what you're adding it to. You can also look > at the timestamp on !MainDict, and you can observe the number of words > in it. The one which comes with OPro has about 60K words, the ones from > my other programs, have around 130K. That - prhaps - implies that the other dictionaries are better than the OP one. Is there some central location one can install the biggest dictionaries, and indded any number of specific user ones, so that all your applications have access to the same set of dictionaries? That's presuming that they all work the same way... -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 16 21:58:17 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150504 for opro ; Wed, 16 May 101 21:58:15 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990035016:20:20307:69; Wed, 16 May 2001 17:43:36 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2019614; 16 May 2001 17:43 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4GHdOA08765 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 16 May 2001 18:39:24 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4GHdK508762 for ; Wed, 16 May 2001 18:39:20 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 1505Gh-000Hs1-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 16 May 2001 17:39:27 +0000 Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 18:13:32 GMT Message-Id: <150494@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: 2.60 bug/niggles/suggestion X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hi, >That - prhaps - implies that the other dictionaries are better than the >OP one. Bigger yes, better perhaps not. >Is there some central location one can install the biggest dictionaries Yes, !Words. >and indded any number of specific user ones !UserWords (note different place to !Words for those on a network) >your applications have access to the same set of dictionaries? That's >presuming that they all work the same way... Well all 'mine' do. CrossStar, Ovation, Ovation Pro, Spell, Web Spell (anything that uses the Spell module), Word Square. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 16 23:07:43 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150515 for opro ; Wed, 16 May 101 23:07:42 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990050445:10:23413:64; Wed, 16 May 2001 22:00:45 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1128196; 16 May 2001 21:59 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4GLoLP09464 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 16 May 2001 22:50:21 +0100 Received: from pandora.chariot.net.au (mail.chariot.net.au [203.30.236.84]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4GLoE509461 for ; Wed, 16 May 2001 22:50:15 +0100 Received: from localhost.com (ppp-091.cust210-9-26.ghr.chariot.net.au [210.9.26.91]) by pandora.chariot.net.au (8.11.1/8.10.0) with SMTP id f4GLoHx23521 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 07:20:17 +0930 Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 08:55:32 +0830 From: Peter Prewett To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: 2.60 bug/niggles/suggestion Message-ID: References: <150389@pilling.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <150389@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.50 (MsgServe/1.50) (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R > >4) Dictionary: the dictionary supplied with OPro dislikes words such as > >won't, don't etc > > Oh no it doesn't. I think you've got another dictionary installed there. > (probably from one of my other products, so I'm still guilty) > Just checked mine and it does the same so where do I start looking? I have not installed another dictionary so I am confused (again):-(( Cheers Peter -- Peter Prewett, Coromandel Valley, South Australia -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 17 01:50:40 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150524 for opro ; Thu, 17 May 101 01:50:37 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990052846:20:22447:65; Wed, 16 May 2001 22:40:46 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2107464; 16 May 2001 22:40 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4GMV8509624 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 16 May 2001 23:31:08 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4GMV2509621 for ; Wed, 16 May 2001 23:31:03 +0100 Received: from useran58.uk.uudial.com ([62.188.135.75] helo=argonet.co.uk) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 1509mF-0000rz-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 16 May 2001 23:28:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ian Gooding To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 22:59:05 +0100 Subject: Re: Paranoia Message-ID: <4a7bc25a1aian.gooding@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <150464@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <150464@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In article <150464@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling wrote: > Hi, > >Whenever I forget myself and type my address and postcode into OPro, I > >get OPro freezing. It responds to break (thank goodness for RISC OS 4 > >:-)), > One might bring up the stuff about "is it an applet", try Control + > Escape and see if that regains control. Yep, it was an applet, as Control + Escape gave me "Script stopped" and returned control. Thanks again for diagnostic help :-) Interestingly, the freeze seems to be linked to my full postal address, not just post code, then pressing return. Any way I can find out which applet is at fault? I've got a number loaded but none ticked on the Applets menu. -- ian.gooding@argonet.co.uk tel: UK + (1753) 527903 http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/ian.gooding -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 17 01:50:43 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150526 for opro ; Thu, 17 May 101 01:50:42 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990060136:20:21992:64; Thu, 17 May 2001 00:42:16 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2114097; 17 May 2001 0:42 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4H0ax009993 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 17 May 2001 01:36:59 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4H0at509989 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 01:36:55 +0100 Received: from ypical.demon.co.uk ([158.152.78.65]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 150Bmm-0007Tx-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 17 May 2001 00:37:01 +0000 Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 01:35:34 +0100 From: Fred Bambrough To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: 2.60 bug/niggles/suggestion Message-ID: References: <150494@pilling.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <150494@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: @ypical User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.50 (MsgServe/1.50) (RISC-OS/4.02) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In message <150494@pilling.demon.co.uk> opro@pilling.demon.co.uk (David Pilling) wrote: > > Hi, > > >That - prhaps - implies that the other dictionaries are better than the > >OP one. > > Bigger yes, better perhaps not. > > >Is there some central location one can install the biggest dictionaries > > Yes, !Words. > > >and indded any number of specific user ones > > !UserWords > > (note different place to !Words for those on a network) > > >your applications have access to the same set of dictionaries? That's > >presuming that they all work the same way... > > Well all 'mine' do. CrossStar, Ovation, Ovation Pro, Spell, Web Spell > (anything that uses the Spell module), Word Square. Don't know what the original questioner is using due to the list's lack of reference headers but don't forget that Messenger also uses this type of dictionary. Maybe overiding? -- Fred -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 17 13:16:54 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150529 for opro ; Thu, 17 May 101 13:16:51 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990060898:20:05323:66; Thu, 17 May 2001 00:54:58 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2113033; 17 May 2001 0:54 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4H0mCq10053 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 17 May 2001 01:48:12 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4H0m7510050 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 01:48:07 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 150Bxe-000Mzk-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 17 May 2001 00:48:14 +0000 Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 23:20:30 GMT Message-Id: <150522@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: 2.60 bug/niggles/suggestion X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >Just checked mine and it does the same so where do I start looking? Look for !Words directories, there will be one inside !OvnPro unless you've moved it. >I have not installed another dictionary so I am confused (again):-(( So you're saying you've never installed any of those other pieces of software mentioned above? The dictionary supplied with OvationPro has 67578 words in it, including "don't" - look at the Edit dictionary window to confirm if this is yours. It is date stamped 24 Sep 1996 and 188663 bytes long. If you find its a bit longer than that then you've been adding words to it, and if it is a lot longer e.g. 130K then it is from another program. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 17 13:17:00 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150532 for opro ; Thu, 17 May 101 13:16:57 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990091015:10:29285:66; Thu, 17 May 2001 09:16:55 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1125607; 17 May 2001 9:16 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4H9Ci711434 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 17 May 2001 10:12:44 +0100 Received: from inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (root@[193.114.241.3]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4H9Ce511431 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 10:12:40 +0100 Received: from sharp.co.uk (aardog.sle.sharp.co.uk [192.16.16.173]) by inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA11496 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 10:09:32 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3B039624.5000304@sharp.co.uk> Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 10:13:08 +0100 From: Graham Jones Organization: Sharp Laboratories of Europe User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:0.9) Gecko/20010505 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ovation Pro List Subject: Re: New applet - Japanese text input and kanji conversion References: <3AFFD1E6.30305@sharp.co.uk> <4a7aae4da1rod@argonet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Mr R O Davis wrote: > I wonder if you spotted my problem that the character ze > is not converted.. is it just me? Yes I have noticed that, now that it has been pointed out. It's not just you - Ovation Pro doesn't like the '<' character in a string by itself ('<' happens to be 'ze' in the encoding used by the Wadalab fonts). I've updated the ZIP archive on the web to fix this. Of course there may be other characters which behave this way, though I haven't spotted any yet. The update also makes the applet slightly more informative if you don't have all the fonts necessary for converting JIS format text. There is also an OvProv document containing a Character table of all, I believe, the characters which can be typed in kana entry mode. I just tried to upload one of the full font sets, but there seems to be a fault in the archive so I will have to do that another day. Graham. -- http://4ozNuff.org.uk - Kanji applet for OvPro. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 17 13:17:04 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150534 for opro ; Thu, 17 May 101 13:17:01 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990091975:10:21316:107; Thu, 17 May 2001 09:32:55 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1107011; 17 May 2001 9:32 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4H9TM611508 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 17 May 2001 10:29:22 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4H9TH511501 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 10:29:17 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 150K60-000994-0X for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 17 May 2001 10:29:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 10:28:31 +0100 Subject: Re: Paranoia Message-ID: <4a7c0178e5Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a7bc25a1aian.gooding@argonet.co.uk> References: <150464@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a7bc25a1aian.gooding@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 16 May, Ian Gooding wrote: > In article <150464@pilling.demon.co.uk>, > David Pilling wrote: > > Hi, > > >Whenever I forget myself and type my address and postcode into OPro, I > > >get OPro freezing. It responds to break (thank goodness for RISC OS 4 > > >:-)), > > One might bring up the stuff about "is it an applet", try Control + > > Escape and see if that regains control. > Yep, it was an applet, as Control + Escape gave me "Script stopped" and > returned control. Thanks again for diagnostic help :-) > Interestingly, the freeze seems to be linked to my full postal address, > not just post code, then pressing return. Any way I can find out which > applet is at fault? I've got a number loaded but none ticked on the > Applets menu. This is why I suggested a while ago that DP might add to the "script-stopped" window the name of the script that was running... -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 17 13:17:48 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150540 for opro ; Thu, 17 May 101 13:17:46 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990095779:20:28636:71; Thu, 17 May 2001 10:36:19 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2117142; 17 May 2001 10:35 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4HAWTh11792 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 17 May 2001 11:32:29 +0100 Received: from mail11.svr.pol.co.uk (mail11.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.23]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4HAWO511789 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 11:32:25 +0100 Received: from modem-53.dwarf-lion-fish.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.4.53] helo=localhost) by mail11.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 150L53-0001eO-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 17 May 2001 11:32:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Simon Jones To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 10:29:10 +0100 Subject: Re: 2.60 bug/niggles/suggestion Message-ID: <4a7c018823simon.jones@capelinmedia.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <150522@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <150522@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02b (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.01b12 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R I wrote: > >Possible - I can't remember whether 2.60 was completely clean, or > >absorbed a dictionary that had been used in earlier version. and David replied: >I think it would be a dictionary from something like Spell or CrossStar Then in article <150522@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling quoted Jeremy Nicholl and wrote: > >Just checked mine and it does the same so where do I start looking? > Look for !Words directories, there will be one inside !OvnPro > unless you've moved it. > >I have not installed another dictionary so I am confused (again):-(( > So you're saying you've never installed any of those other pieces of > software mentioned above? > The dictionary supplied with OvationPro has 67578 words in it, > including "don't" - look at the Edit dictionary window to confirm if > this is yours. > It is date stamped 24 Sep 1996 and 188663 bytes long. > If you find its a bit longer than that then you've been adding words > to it, and if it is a lot longer e.g. 130K then it is from another > program. Now I /am/ confused: Although OPro (misc-spellcheck-dictionary) offers a !MainDict (containing 77647 words) and a !UserDict (contining 27 words!!), I can't find a !UserDict file ( contains just !HyphDict and !MainDict - which makes sense as DP earlier said that overwriting the !Maindict would lose all my words. The start of the file reads "Ovation Dictionary 0.00 (18-Jun-1990)" However !Opro.!Words.Dictionary.!MainDict, the one I thought I was having trouble with as it doesn't use apostrophes in can't, wouldn't etc, is date stamped 24 Sep 1996 and 188663 bytes long. Digging further, I find another !Words folder in !Boot.Resources - which starts to ring bells with a discussion sime time back, about using the same dictionary for a number of programmes. The !MainDict in there is 212k, date stamped 20 Nov 2000 and has 77647 words. However, the start of this file also reads "Ovation Dictionary 0.00 (18-Jun-1990)". So it seems both versions of !MainDict on my system originate from the same source - and the one in use has had lots of words added. What seems strange, is that the apostrophied words have mutated -especially as OPro lets you add and delete words, but not edit them! That's been a bit longwinded: I think the conclusion to my original question (without a tool to compare dictionaries, and to keep the longer list) is to simply edit the !MainDict that is in use as I find words that are not apostrophied. Thanks David et al. for your help. Cheers Simon -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 17 13:17:50 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150541 for opro ; Thu, 17 May 101 13:17:49 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990097312:20:07111:82; Thu, 17 May 2001 11:01:52 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2006678; 17 May 2001 11:01 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4HAwDl11929 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 17 May 2001 11:58:13 +0100 Received: from holyrood.ed.ac.uk (holyrood.ed.ac.uk [129.215.16.14]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4HAw9511926 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 11:58:09 +0100 Received: from alfred.ed.ac.uk (dialup-133.publab.ed.ac.uk [129.215.38.133]) by holyrood.ed.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA19445 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 11:58:15 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 11:58:16 +0100 (BST) From: Alf Chamings Subject: Cropped picture in ps/pdf To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Dear All I have an OPro file containing a drawfile. Part of the drawing is cropped by reducing the size of the frame. The unwanted part of the picture includes a remnant of text from an original scanned image and this has been obscured in Draw by placing a white rectangle over the top of it. When the drawfile is imported into the OPro frame, the unwanted part is therefore obscured twice. The strange thing is that when I convert the page to pdf using either Ghostscript or RiScript, the unwanted area reappears and the text that should be over the top of it is obscured. I have sent this query to Cerilica, but having discovered that GhostScript - PS2PDF produces the same result, I wondered if the problem lay elsewhere. Any ideas? Alf -- Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh, EH3 9YW, UK tel +44 131 536 3251 fax +44 131 536 3283 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 17 13:17:52 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150542 for opro ; Thu, 17 May 101 13:17:51 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990099553:20:06254:77; Thu, 17 May 2001 11:39:13 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2006018; 17 May 2001 11:38 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4HBYe314284 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 17 May 2001 12:34:40 +0100 Received: from apollo.le.ac.uk (apollo.le.ac.uk [143.210.16.125]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4HBYa514281 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 12:34:36 +0100 Received: from happy.star.le.ac.uk ([143.210.36.58]) by apollo.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 150M3D-00024r-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 17 May 2001 12:34:39 +0100 Received: (qmail 8687 invoked from network); 17 May 2001 11:34:59 -0000 Received: from xmm4.xra.le.ac.uk (143.210.40.54) by happy.star.le.ac.uk with SMTP; 17 May 2001 11:34:59 -0000 Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 12:34:41 +0100 (BST) From: Liam Gretton Subject: Re: Cropped picture in ps/pdf To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Space Research Centre, University of Leicester, UK X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Thu 17 May, Alf Chamings wrote: > The strange thing is that when I convert the page to pdf using either > Ghostscript or RiScript, the unwanted area reappears and the text that > should be over the top of it is obscured. I assume you're checking your PDF file by viewing it on a RISC OS machine? Because of a limitiation of the drawfile format and renderer, none of the RO PDF viewers can correctly show 'clipped' regions, which is what you'll find you have in your PDF file. View it on another platform, and you'll find it looks exactly as you expect. This is a RISC OS problem - we need a newer draw module which is capable of clipping. Cerilica plan to make such a module available one day that will render files from Vantage, but I'd imagine this is a long way off yet. A workaround is to scale and crop your illustration to the frame size in draw before dropping it into OvPro; then the output PS/PDF file will not have a cropped picture. -- Liam Gretton ljg@star.le.ac.uk Space Research Centre, http://www.src.le.ac.uk/ Physics and Astronomy Dept, phone +44 (0) 116 223 1039 University of Leicester, fax +44 (0) 116 252 2464 Leicester LE1 7RH, UK http://xmm4.xra.le.ac.uk/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 17 13:17:57 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150544 for opro ; Thu, 17 May 101 13:17:55 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990100909:20:13522:64; Thu, 17 May 2001 12:01:49 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2107607; 17 May 2001 12:01 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4HBvHp14448 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 17 May 2001 12:57:17 +0100 Received: from inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (root@[193.114.241.3]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4HBvD514445 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 12:57:13 +0100 Received: from sharp.co.uk (aardog.sle.sharp.co.uk [192.16.16.173]) by inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA14306 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 12:54:03 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3B03BCB2.8090906@sharp.co.uk> Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 12:57:38 +0100 From: Graham Jones Organization: Sharp Laboratories of Europe User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:0.9) Gecko/20010505 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Cropped picture in ps/pdf References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Alf Chamings wrote: > The strange thing is that when I convert the page to pdf using either > Ghostscript or RiScript, the unwanted area reappears and the text that should > be over the top of it is obscured. An important question is to ask which viewer you are using? Ghostscript, RiScript, !PDF (old or new versions) or Acrobat? If you view the doc with Ghostscript or Acrobat and still see the hidden text then the problem would seem to be before creating the PDF doc. If the problem is just with RiScript or !PDF, then it probably is just the viewer. I wonder if the cropped white box is being optimized out of the postscript at any point? That would mean the PostScript driver was vaguely intelligent, so perhaps not. Graham. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 17 15:08:39 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150559 for opro ; Thu, 17 May 101 15:08:37 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990103400:20:28167:83; Thu, 17 May 2001 12:43:20 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2028286; 17 May 2001 12:42 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4HCXv214607 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 17 May 2001 13:33:57 +0100 Received: from mserv1d.vianw.co.uk (mserv1d.vianw.co.uk [195.102.240.96]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4HCXr514604 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 13:33:53 +0100 Received: from [194.119.179.59] (helo=Caslon.english.co.uk) by mserv1d.vianw.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #5) id 150Myd-00045o-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 17 May 2001 13:33:59 +0100 Received: from Gill (10.0.1.1) by Caslon.english.co.uk; Thu, 17 May 2001 13:09:42 +0100 Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 13:09:31 +0100 From: David Graddol To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Cropped picture in ps/pdf Message-ID: <5036107c4a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: The English Company (UK) Ltd X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Alf Chamings wrote: > Dear All > > I have an OPro file containing a drawfile. Part of the drawing is cropped by > reducing the size of the frame. The unwanted part of the picture includes a > remnant of text from an original scanned image and this has been obscured in > Draw by placing a white rectangle over the top of it. When the drawfile is > imported into the OPro frame, the unwanted part is therefore obscured twice. > > The strange thing is that when I convert the page to pdf using either > Ghostscript or RiScript, the unwanted area reappears and the text that should > be over the top of it is obscured. > > I have sent this query to Cerilica, but having discovered that GhostScript - > PS2PDF produces the same result, I wondered if the problem lay elsewhere. > > Any ideas? Sounds like our old problem with clipping paths & Risc OS. If you create your PDF on a PC using Acrobat, then you will probably find that it all comes out OK. In other words, it is not a problem with the postscript generated by Risc OS. David -- The English Company (UK) Ltd http://www.english.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 17 15:08:45 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150560 for opro ; Thu, 17 May 101 15:08:43 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990102006:10:19996:67; Thu, 17 May 2001 12:20:06 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1018947; 17 May 2001 12:18 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4HCEMk14520 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 17 May 2001 13:14:22 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4HCEJ514517 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 13:14:19 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 150Mfh-0006vb-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 17 May 2001 12:14:25 +0000 Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 01:51:37 GMT Message-Id: <150527@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Paranoia X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >Interestingly, the freeze seems to be linked to my full postal address, >not just post code, then pressing return. Any way I can find out which >applet is at fault? Only the hard way, involving doing a binary chop on turning applets on and off. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 17 18:10:01 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150565 for opro ; Thu, 17 May 101 18:09:58 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990108653:20:04626:65; Thu, 17 May 2001 14:10:53 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2004561; 17 May 2001 14:10 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4HE67K14997 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 17 May 2001 15:06:07 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4HE62514993 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 15:06:02 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 150OPo-000K3r-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 17 May 2001 14:06:08 +0000 Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 13:26:22 GMT Message-Id: <150545@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: 2.60 bug/niggles/suggestion X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >I can't find a !UserDict file Inside !UserWords, which will be somewhere. (the quick way is to do F12, and then show OvationPro* to see all the paths.) >The start of the file reads "Ovation Dictionary 0.00 (18-Jun-1990)" This is the file format. Since there's only been one, it will always be the same. >I find another !Words folder in !Boot.Resources It would be a good idea to either have !Words and !UserWords in !Boot (if you want to share them) or inside !OvnPro (if you don't). And to only have one copy of each on your system. >That's been a bit longwinded: I think the conclusion to my original >question (without a tool to compare dictionaries Oh but you can... menu over the dictionary edit window will let you save the dictionary as a text file. You can then use standard text file compare tools. (of which there are many freely available). You also have the trick of merging dictionaries. Lets say you want one dictionary with all the words in. Just save one dictionary as text and drag/drop it into the edit window for the other. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 17 18:10:04 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150567 for opro ; Thu, 17 May 101 18:10:02 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990117367:10:00503:97; Thu, 17 May 2001 16:36:07 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1128096; 17 May 2001 16:35 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4HGX8W15668 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 17 May 2001 17:33:08 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4HGX4515665 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 17:33:04 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 150Qi7-000JqC-0X for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 17 May 2001 17:33:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 17:06:34 +0100 Subject: Re: Paranoia Message-ID: <4a7c25ea12Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a7c0178e5Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> References: <150464@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a7bc25a1aian.gooding@argonet.co.uk> <4a7c0178e5Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R On 17 May, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > This is why I suggested a while ago that DP might add to the > "script-stopped" window the name of the script that was running... (assuming that at the point where the script interpreter loads a script and starts to run it, it remembers its name - I suspect if one script calls/uses another etc that this might not be totally trivial) -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 17 18:10:05 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150568 for opro ; Thu, 17 May 101 18:10:02 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990109435:20:23267:66; Thu, 17 May 2001 14:23:55 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2122143; 17 May 2001 14:23 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4HEIeS15080 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 17 May 2001 15:18:40 +0100 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.177]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4HEIX515075 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 15:18:34 +0100 Received: from modem-220.iodine.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.44.220] helo=beeston12) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 150Obw-0006HI-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 17 May 2001 15:18:40 +0100 Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 15:00:54 +0100 From: Robin Phillips To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Differing dictionaries Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <150494@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: home X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.64b User-Agent: POPstar/2.03 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In message <150494@pilling.demon.co.uk> opro@pilling.demon.co.uk (David Pilling) wrote: > > Hi, > > >That - prhaps - implies that the other dictionaries are better than the > >OP one. > > Bigger yes, better perhaps not. > > >Is there some central location one can install the biggest dictionaries > > Yes, !Words. > > >and indeed any number of specific user ones > > !UserWords > > (note different place to !Words for those on a network) > > >your applications have access to the same set of dictionaries? That's > >presuming that they all work the same way... > > Well all 'mine' do. CrossStar, Ovation, Ovation Pro, Spell, Web Spell (anything > that uses the Spell module), Word Square. Thus discussion of dictionaries reminds me of the fact that whenever I am using Zap to write an e-mail it is using a different (and distinctly more primitive!) dictionary from the one in OvationPro. I do not know how (in Zap) to add words to its dictionary or alter them. I have a machine used by several members of the family, and it may be that some of them spell differently! I suspect the best arrangement might be for us to fix things so that Zap used the same dictionary as OvationPro, and we could easily add or alter words when using OvationPro and nothing else. How do I fix that? Best wishes, Robin. -- Robin Phillips, 1, Newcastle Avenue, Beeston, Notts., NG9 1BT; Phone: +44 (0)115 922 4930 E-mail: rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 17 19:05:48 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150577 for opro ; Thu, 17 May 101 19:05:45 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990120469:20:05083:74; Thu, 17 May 2001 17:27:49 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2121143; 17 May 2001 17:27 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4HHPEC15971 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 17 May 2001 18:25:14 +0100 Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4HHPA515968 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 18:25:10 +0100 Received: from mcqueen ([62.252.168.183]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010517172518.UAOB272.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@mcqueen> for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 18:25:18 +0100 Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 18:25:32 +0100 From: Colin McQueen To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: 2.60 bug/niggles/suggestion Message-ID: References: <150389@pilling.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: The McQueen Family User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10 (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In message Peter Prewett wrote: > > > >4) Dictionary: the dictionary supplied with OPro dislikes words such as > > >won't, don't etc > > > > Oh no it doesn't. I think you've got another dictionary installed there. > > (probably from one of my other products, so I'm still guilty) > > > Just checked mine and it does the same so where do I start looking? > mine too. If I use don't then it says its wrong and offeres dont If I use don`t then it says no errors Is this the problem? -- Colin McQueen : Using an Acorn StrongARM Risc PC Web Domain : http://www.mcqueen.uk.net/ BSc Zoology + Oceanography : PGCE : MSc in CBL/T -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 17 19:05:51 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150578 for opro ; Thu, 17 May 101 19:05:49 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990120630:10:06657:68; Thu, 17 May 2001 17:30:30 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1120056; 17 May 2001 17:30 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4HHRu016005 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 17 May 2001 18:27:56 +0100 Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4HHRp516002 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 18:27:51 +0100 Received: from mcqueen ([62.252.168.183]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010517172759.UBYA272.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@mcqueen> for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 18:27:59 +0100 Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 18:28:24 +0100 From: Colin McQueen To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: RTF files Message-ID: <06682d7c4a.cmcqueen@cmcqueen.ntlworld.com> References: <4a7b2778f2charles.hope@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a7b2778f2charles.hope@argonet.co.uk> X-Organization: The McQueen Family User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10 (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In message <4a7b2778f2charles.hope@argonet.co.uk> "charles.hope" wrote: > On 15 May, Mijas Software wrote: > > On Mon 14 May 2001 (17:38:10 +0100), charles.hope@argonet.co.uk wrote: > > > I think you're looking at this the wrong way round. I'm trying to > > > import (RTF) into Ov Pro, not from it. > > > > > You can import a single RTF (text) document into OPro by dropping the > > rtf file (suitably typed) onto the OPro icon bar icon, that is assuming > > you have the RTF import applet loaded. > > > If you want to add the contents of an RTF file to an existing > > document, you need to import the rtf into a new document and then copy > > into your existing document. > > That is what happens if the RTF document come from Word via a PC, but if I > export it from Easiwriter as RTF, I can drop it straight into an existing > document. > > My query was why the difference> > Does EW and OP use the clipboard or RAM transfer that may be different to loading from file?? Assuming you DO mean directly for EW>OP. -- Colin McQueen : Using an Acorn StrongARM Risc PC Web Domain : http://www.mcqueen.uk.net/ BSc Zoology + Oceanography : PGCE : MSc in CBL/T -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 17 19:51:32 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150583 for opro ; Thu, 17 May 101 19:51:30 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990123004:20:20816:67; Thu, 17 May 2001 18:10:04 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2020591; 17 May 2001 18:09 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4HI3E016209 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 17 May 2001 19:03:14 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4HI3A516206 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 19:03:10 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 150S7J-000J0G-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 17 May 2001 18:03:17 +0000 Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 18:12:56 GMT Message-Id: <150572@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Paranoia X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >(assuming that at the point where the script interpreter loads a script >and starts to run it, it remembers its name it does not. > - I suspect if one script calls/uses another etc which they often do. >that this might not be totally trivial) which is why I've not done it. It's a good idea, but it is non-trivial. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 17 19:51:32 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150584 for opro ; Thu, 17 May 101 19:51:30 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990123324:10:01478:73; Thu, 17 May 2001 18:15:24 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1116184; 17 May 2001 18:14 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4HI9g816246 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 17 May 2001 19:09:42 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4HI9c516239 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 19:09:38 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 150SDZ-000JNs-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 17 May 2001 18:09:45 +0000 Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 19:08:25 GMT Message-Id: <150579@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: 2.60 bug/niggles/suggestion X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >If I use don't then it says its wrong and offeres dont >If I use don`t then it says no errors Nice try, but sexy single quotes are not the problem, on my copy (with the genuine OPro dictionary) don't and don t check OK. I would guess ` is taken as splitting words, so it checks 'don' and 't' don is in the dictionary, and 't' will be accepted as long as the min check length is greater than 1. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 17 19:51:36 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150585 for opro ; Thu, 17 May 101 19:51:33 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990123274:20:02580:70; Thu, 17 May 2001 18:14:34 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2107766; 17 May 2001 18:14 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4HI9i716247 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 17 May 2001 19:09:44 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4HI9d516243 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 19:09:39 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 150SDa-000JNs-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 17 May 2001 18:09:47 +0000 Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 19:11:02 GMT Message-Id: <150581@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: RTF files X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro I don't know if this is right, but my feeling is that there are two types of RTF file - sort of text and documents. That explains why some load one way and others another. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 17 21:37:12 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150587 for opro ; Thu, 17 May 101 21:37:09 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990126292:20:06653:73; Thu, 17 May 2001 19:04:52 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2006531; 17 May 2001 19:04 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4HJ1Sc16631 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 17 May 2001 20:01:28 +0100 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk (mail6.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.212]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4HJ1O516628 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 20:01:24 +0100 Received: from modem-36.radon.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.62.164] helo=kerslakej2.freeserve.co.uk) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 150T1b-0000Gr-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 17 May 2001 20:01:29 +0100 Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 19:33:19 +0100 (BST) From: John Percy Kerslake Subject: Re: Differing dictionaries To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Thu 17 May, Robin Phillips wrote: > In message <150494@pilling.demon.co.uk> > opro@pilling.demon.co.uk (David Pilling) wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > >That - prhaps - implies that the other dictionaries are better than the > > >OP one. > > > > Bigger yes, better perhaps not. > > > > >Is there some central location one can install the biggest dictionaries > > > > Yes, !Words. > > > > >and indeed any number of specific user ones > > > > !UserWords > > > > (note different place to !Words for those on a network) > > > > >your applications have access to the same set of dictionaries? That's > > >presuming that they all work the same way... > > > > Well all 'mine' do. CrossStar, Ovation, Ovation Pro, Spell, Web Spell (anything > > that uses the Spell module), Word Square. > > Thus discussion of dictionaries reminds me of the fact that whenever I am > using Zap to write an e-mail it is using a different (and distinctly more > primitive!) dictionary from the one in OvationPro. > > I do not know how (in Zap) to add words to its dictionary or alter them. I > have a machine used by several members of the family, and it may be that some > of them spell differently! I suspect the best arrangement might be for us to > fix things so that Zap used the same dictionary as OvationPro, and we could > easily add or alter words when using OvationPro and nothing else. How do I > fix that? Good luck i cannot get ZapSpell to rember where its user dic is. After every shutdown it defalts back to not having one. yes I have put the User Dic into Zapspell.dictionary. -- J.P. Kerslake B.Sc., F.B.I.S. Pager 07626 - 235878 e-mail address:- Work = kerslake@sees.bangor.ac.uk Home = johnpercy@kerslakej2.freeserve.co.uk, Dyslexia Rules KO. RiscStation 64 meg 50 ns RAM. 9G HD, Ant INS. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 17 21:37:14 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150588 for opro ; Thu, 17 May 101 21:37:13 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990126301:20:07271:64; Thu, 17 May 2001 19:05:01 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2007157; 17 May 2001 19:04 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4HJ22t16638 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 17 May 2001 20:02:02 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4HJ1x516635 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 20:01:59 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 150T2E-0008VR-0X for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 17 May 2001 20:02:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 20:02:17 +0100 Subject: Re: Paranoia Message-ID: <4a7c360051Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <150572@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <150572@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 17 May, David Pilling wrote: > >(assuming that at the point where the script interpreter loads a script > >and starts to run it, it remembers its name > it does not. No but it wouldn't be hard to have it stack that name, and presumably pop the stack whenever a script exited. Presumably error windows could then display the most recently called script's name, and perhaps also list the stack contents to show the order in which successive scripts were called. -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 18 01:26:13 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150601 for opro ; Fri, 18 May 101 01:26:11 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990143997:20:21252:64; Thu, 17 May 2001 23:59:57 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2109445; 17 May 2001 23:59 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4HNuA017775 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 18 May 2001 00:56:10 +0100 Received: from rhenium (rhenium.btinternet.com [194.73.73.93]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4HNu6517771 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 00:56:06 +0100 Received: from [213.122.134.140] (helo=host213-122-134-140) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 150Xcq-0003PF-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 18 May 2001 00:56:13 +0100 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 00:28:20 +0100 From: Brian Howlett To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: 2.60 bug/niggles/suggestion Message-ID: <265c4e7c4a.Brian@Brian_Howlett.btinternet.com> References: <150579@pilling.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <150579@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: The Terry Wogan Home for the Bewildered User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.11 (MsgServe/1.11) (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 X-Computer: Acorn RiscPC SA-110 X-no-markup: yes X-Editor: Zap 1.43 (29 Oct 1999) ds-11, ZapEmail 0.24 (26 Aug 1999) patch-9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro 'Twas on the 17 May 2001, a day I'll always remember, that David Pilling said : > >> If I use don't then it says its wrong and offeres dont If I use don`t >> then it says no errors > > Nice try, but sexy single quotes are not the problem, on my copy (with > the genuine OPro dictionary) don't and don t check OK. > > I would guess ` is taken as splitting words, so it checks 'don' and > 't' don is in the dictionary, and 't' will be accepted as long as the > min check length is greater than 1. > I've followed the instructions further up the thread and merged the dictionary that came with MPro and the one I have from OPro, and the merged dictionary now lives in !Words in !Boot.Resources, with the result that both programs use the same version, which correctly understands don't, won't, can't etc. -- Brian Howlett ---------------------------------------------- All electronic components run on smoke. If you let the smoke out, they stop working... -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 18 01:26:16 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150602 for opro ; Fri, 18 May 101 01:26:14 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990134230:10:01096:66; Thu, 17 May 2001 21:17:10 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1001077; 17 May 2001 21:17 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4HLEqH17282 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 17 May 2001 22:14:52 +0100 Received: from pandora.chariot.net.au (mail.chariot.net.au [203.30.236.84]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4HLEj517279 for ; Thu, 17 May 2001 22:14:46 +0100 Received: from localhost.com (ppp-197.cust210-9-26.ghr.chariot.net.au [210.9.26.197]) by pandora.chariot.net.au (8.11.1/8.10.0) with SMTP id f4HLEov05625 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 06:44:50 +0930 Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 16:03:03 +0830 From: Peter Prewett To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: 2.60 bug/niggles/suggestion Message-ID: References: <150522@pilling.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <150522@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.50 (MsgServe/1.50) (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In message <150522@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > > >Just checked mine and it does the same so where do I start looking? > > Look for !Words directories, there will be one inside !OvnPro > unless you've moved it. > > >I have not installed another dictionary so I am confused (again):-(( > > So you're saying you've never installed any of those other pieces of > software mentioned above? > > The dictionary supplied with OvationPro has 67578 words in it, > including "don't" - look at the Edit dictionary window to confirm if > this is yours. > > It is date stamped 24 Sep 1996 and 188663 bytes long. > > If you find its a bit longer than that then you've been adding words to it, > and if it is a lot longer e.g. 130K then it is from another program. > Could the trouble be that Messenger Pro requires their !Words dir to be put into ADFS::Hard.$.!Boot.Resources.!Words I have just had a look at the one in !Resources and it is an Ovation of 216k. I thought it came from RComp had a look at the latest release of Messenger and that words dictionary says it is Spell dated 1990 I now have 3 !Words on my system!! as I have Spell as well. I think it would be good if one could have a definitive one which every SW house uses as I am now totally confused (which is not unusual) in knowing which one is being used. Peter -- Peter Prewett, Coromandel Valley, South Australia -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 18 13:47:56 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150611 for opro ; Fri, 18 May 101 13:47:54 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990146921:10:17931:65; Fri, 18 May 2001 00:48:41 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1101709; 18 May 2001 0:47 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4I0jU317985 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 18 May 2001 01:45:30 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4I0jR517982 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 01:45:27 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 150YOc-0000O3-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 18 May 2001 00:45:34 +0000 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 01:37:28 GMT Message-Id: <150607@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: 2.60 bug/niggles/suggestion X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >Could the trouble be that Messenger Pro requires their !Words dir to be >put into ADFS::Hard.$.!Boot.Resources.!Words Perhaps in the sense that the first !Words seen is likely to take precedence. >I now have 3 !Words on my system!! Yes but only by your choice. If you only want one (which would be a good idea) all you have to do is arrange for there to be just one. To put it another way Messenger, Spell, Ovation Pro all use the same format dictionaries in the same !Words directory. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 18 13:48:00 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150613 for opro ; Fri, 18 May 101 13:47:58 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990171247:10:16639:64; Fri, 18 May 2001 07:34:07 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1015606; 18 May 2001 7:32 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4I7V7419116 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 18 May 2001 08:31:07 +0100 Received: from snowstorm.mail.pipex.net (snowstorm.mail.pipex.net [158.43.192.97]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4I7V4519113 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 08:31:04 +0100 Received: (qmail 25485 invoked from network); 18 May 2001 07:31:10 -0000 Received: from userbh55.uk.uudial.com (HELO RiscPC) (62.188.143.20) by smtp-5.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 18 May 2001 07:31:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 07:47:43 +0100 Subject: Re: Paranoia Message-ID: <4a7c7695d9steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a7c360051Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> References: <150572@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a7c360051Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a7c360051Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > No but it wouldn't be hard to have it stack that name, and presumably pop > the stack whenever a script exited. Presumably error windows could then > display the most recently called script's name, and perhaps also list the > stack contents to show the order in which successive scripts were called. Set a variable as the script starts, unset it as it completes. List order of scripts run?? Er, use !SysLog??? -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 18 13:48:02 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150614 for opro ; Fri, 18 May 101 13:47:59 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990168366:20:17865:65; Fri, 18 May 2001 06:46:06 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2124461; 18 May 2001 6:45 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4I6hPG18922 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 18 May 2001 07:43:25 +0100 Received: from kx1-gui.server.which.net (kx1-gui.server.which.net [194.168.97.11]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4I6hL518919 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 07:43:21 +0100 Received: from waddell.which.net ([213.105.52.1]) by kx1-gui.server.which.net (InterMail vK.4.03.02.00 201-232-124 license e70b2acfbd69d84cc925654164bd8fad) with SMTP id <20010518064329.GTZO24141.kx1-gui@waddell.which.net> for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 07:43:29 +0100 Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 11:19:49 +0100 (BST) From: John Waddell Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) To: Ovation mail list In-Reply-To: <3AFFAA1A.396ECA6@sharp.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Is there not the protocol that units should be in lower case? If not, it might be a good idea? 30ohm. On Mon 14 May, Graham Jones wrote: > Barry Gray wrote: > > I was always taught (and I myself teach) that in SI there is no space > > between the quantity and the unit, for example 9m not 9 m, although of > > course nine metres but not usually 9 metres and never nine m. > > There are some situations where it can be confusing if there is not a space > between the value and the unit. I was recently typing a resistance of thirty > ohms (30Ohm) and decided that in this case 30 Ohm was much better. > -- John Waddell, Langbank, Renfrewshire -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 18 13:48:06 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150616 for opro ; Fri, 18 May 101 13:48:04 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990174025:20:22315:64; Fri, 18 May 2001 08:20:25 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2020512; 18 May 2001 8:18 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4I8FcO19350 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 18 May 2001 09:15:38 +0100 Received: from holyrood.ed.ac.uk (holyrood.ed.ac.uk [129.215.16.14]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4I8FX519343 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 09:15:33 +0100 Received: from alfred.ed.ac.uk (dialup-133.publab.ed.ac.uk [129.215.38.133]) by holyrood.ed.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA00551 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 09:15:34 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 09:17:39 +0100 (BST) From: Alf Chamings Subject: Re: Cropped picture in ps/pdf To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <5036107c4a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Thu 17 May, David Graddol wrote: > Sounds like our old problem with clipping paths & Risc OS. If you > create your PDF on a PC using Acrobat, then you will probably > find that it all comes out OK. In other words, it is not a > problem with the postscript generated by Risc OS. > Acrobat I have only in the reader form. I am not sure it would have cured the problem because the PS file still showed the problem (or not) depending on whether I viewed it in Riscript or GView. Don't suppose I'll buy Acrobat Distiller to find out! Alf -- Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh, EH3 9YW, UK tel +44 131 536 3251 fax +44 131 536 3283 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 18 13:48:07 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150615 for opro ; Fri, 18 May 101 13:48:03 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990173996:10:07414:71; Fri, 18 May 2001 08:19:56 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1006525; 18 May 2001 8:18 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4I8Fgu19351 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 18 May 2001 09:15:42 +0100 Received: from holyrood.ed.ac.uk (holyrood.ed.ac.uk [129.215.16.14]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4I8FZ519347 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 09:15:35 +0100 Received: from alfred.ed.ac.uk (dialup-133.publab.ed.ac.uk [129.215.38.133]) by holyrood.ed.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA00603 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 09:15:41 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 09:14:21 +0100 (BST) From: Alf Chamings Subject: Re: Cropped picture in ps/pdf To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Thu 17 May, Liam Gretton wrote: > > A workaround is to scale and crop your illustration to the frame size in > draw before dropping it into OvPro; then the output PS/PDF file will not > have a cropped picture. > See also reply to Graham Jones comments. I tried this but when I went back to this rather old Draw file I remembered it had been produced by touching up an original sprite from a scanned image. The bits I didn't want were part of the sprite so I couldn't just select them out. Alf -- Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh, EH3 9YW, UK tel +44 131 536 3251 fax +44 131 536 3283 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 18 13:48:10 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150617 for opro ; Fri, 18 May 101 13:48:07 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990174252:20:27408:95; Fri, 18 May 2001 08:24:12 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2027598; 18 May 2001 8:23 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4I8FPs19341 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 18 May 2001 09:15:25 +0100 Received: from holyrood.ed.ac.uk (holyrood.ed.ac.uk [129.215.16.14]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4I8FL519338 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 09:15:21 +0100 Received: from alfred.ed.ac.uk (dialup-133.publab.ed.ac.uk [129.215.38.133]) by holyrood.ed.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA00522 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 09:15:26 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 09:11:27 +0100 (BST) From: Alf Chamings Subject: Re: Cropped picture in ps/pdf To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <3B03BCB2.8090906@sharp.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Thu 17 May, Graham Jones wrote: > Alf Chamings wrote: > > > The strange thing is that when I convert the page to pdf using either > > Ghostscript or RiScript, the unwanted area reappears and the text that > > should be over the top of it is obscured. > > > An important question is to ask which viewer you are using? Ghostscript, > RiScript, !PDF (old or new versions) or Acrobat? > > If you view the doc with Ghostscript or Acrobat and still see the hidden > text then the problem would seem to be before creating the PDF doc. If the > problem is just with RiScript or !PDF, then it probably is just the viewer. > > I wonder if the cropped white box is being optimized out of the postscript > at any point? That would mean the PostScript driver was vaguely > intelligent, so perhaps not. > Thanks. Following yours and Liam's suggestions, I have experimented some more. First I had a reply from Nicholas van der Hoff at Cerilica who pointed me towards the clipping problem. I tried taking the text that should have been infront of the picture and putting it into carefully positioned new text frames around the picture. This worked. I have also tried viewing the PDF file from RiScript (the one with the problems) and viewing it on Acrobat Reader. This produced the same result. Looking at the PS file (output from OvPro) in GView did not show the problem, but loading the same PS into Riscript did show it. Alf -- Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh, EH3 9YW, UK tel +44 131 536 3251 fax +44 131 536 3283 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 18 13:48:19 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150619 for opro ; Fri, 18 May 101 13:48:17 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990178513:20:20265:65; Fri, 18 May 2001 09:35:13 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2110508; 18 May 2001 9:34 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4I9Wkt19811 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 18 May 2001 10:32:46 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4I9Wg519808 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 10:32:42 +0100 Received: from mk-net.demon.co.uk ([194.222.12.18] helo=Tonys) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 150gcr-000Hou-0V for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 18 May 2001 10:32:49 +0100 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 10:30:21 +0100 From: Tony van der Hoff To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Cropped picture in ps/pdf Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: X-Organization: CCC User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10d (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 18 May 2001, Alf Chamings wrote: [snip] > First I had a reply from Nicholas van der Hoff at Cerilica van der Walle. -- Tony van der Hoff | MailTo:tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk | MailTo:avanderhoff@iee.org Buckinghamshire, England | http:mk-net.demon.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 18 13:48:22 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150620 for opro ; Fri, 18 May 101 13:48:20 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990184134:20:28490:87; Fri, 18 May 2001 11:08:54 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2121631; 18 May 2001 11:08 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4IB5R420165 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:05:27 +0100 Received: from mserv1d.vianw.co.uk (mserv1d.vianw.co.uk [195.102.240.96]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4IB5M520160 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:05:22 +0100 Received: from [194.119.179.59] (helo=Caslon.english.co.uk) by mserv1d.vianw.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #5) id 150i4W-0004gP-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:05:28 +0100 Received: from Gill (10.0.1.1) by Caslon.english.co.uk; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:04:04 +0100 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 12:03:56 +0100 From: David Graddol To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Cropped picture in ps/pdf Message-ID: <22b8e7c4a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: The English Company (UK) Ltd X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Alf Chamings wrote: > On Thu 17 May, David Graddol wrote: > > > Sounds like our old problem with clipping paths & Risc OS. If you > > create your PDF on a PC using Acrobat, then you will probably > > find that it all comes out OK. In other words, it is not a > > problem with the postscript generated by Risc OS. > > > Acrobat I have only in the reader form. I am not sure it would have cured the > problem because the PS file still showed the problem (or not) depending on > whether I viewed it in Riscript or GView. > The problem is not with the Postscript. The problem is whether clipping paths specified in the postscript are honoured by the software producing or viewing the PDF. RiScript doesn't handle clipping paths so artwork will look wrong regardless of whether the PDF was produced on a RISC OS platform or not. I can't now remember whether Ghostscript produces OK PDFs or not. (Remember that they will look wrong when viewed in RiScript but do they look wrong when viewed in Acrobat?) David -- The English Company (UK) Ltd http://www.english.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 18 14:43:02 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150623 for opro ; Fri, 18 May 101 14:43:00 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990190452:10:19265:238; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:54:12 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id ab1106085; 18 May 2001 12:53 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4ICps320565 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 18 May 2001 13:51:54 +0100 Received: from inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (root@[193.114.241.3]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4ICpo520562 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 13:51:50 +0100 Received: from sharp.co.uk (aardog.sle.sharp.co.uk [192.16.16.173]) by inca.sle.sharp.co.uk (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00080 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 13:48:41 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3B051B02.5000108@sharp.co.uk> Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:52:18 +0100 From: Graham Jones Organization: Sharp Laboratories of Europe User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:0.9) Gecko/20010505 X-Accept-Language: en,pdf, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Cropped picture in ps/pdf References: <22b8e7c4a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro David Graddol wrote: > I can't now remember whether Ghostscript produces OK PDFs or not. > (Remember that they will look wrong when viewed in RiScript but > do they look wrong when viewed in Acrobat?) All my experience shows that good PDF's are produced. Ghostscript does nothing special for RISC OS when handling postscript, and Postscript is Postscript whether produced on RISC OS or some other OS. It copes with PC produced PS files, so there is no reason RISC OS files should not convert correctly. PDF files from Ghostscript look fine in Acrobat, PDF+ on my Psion5, and when converted to some other format by Ghostscript itself. Graham. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 18 14:43:04 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150624 for opro ; Fri, 18 May 101 14:43:03 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990190668:10:26079:110; Fri, 18 May 2001 12:57:48 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1115300; 18 May 2001 12:57 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4ICtjJ20605 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 18 May 2001 13:55:45 +0100 Received: from apollo.le.ac.uk (apollo.le.ac.uk [143.210.16.125]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4ICtf520602 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 13:55:41 +0100 Received: from happy.star.le.ac.uk ([143.210.36.58]) by apollo.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 150jnI-0002k3-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 18 May 2001 13:55:48 +0100 Received: (qmail 24057 invoked from network); 18 May 2001 12:56:10 -0000 Received: from ltsun0.star.le.ac.uk (HELO ltsun0) (143.210.36.50) by happy.star.le.ac.uk with SMTP; 18 May 2001 12:56:10 -0000 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 13:56:10 +0100 (BST) From: Liam Gretton X-Sender: ljg@ltsun0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Cropped picture in ps/pdf In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R On Fri, 18 May 2001, Alf Chamings wrote: > Acrobat I have only in the reader form. I am not sure it would have cured the > problem because the PS file still showed the problem (or not) depending on > whether I viewed it in Riscript or GView. GView probably clips ok, as it's rendering to a sprite on RISC OS and so can use masks where necessary. -- Liam Gretton ljg@star.le.ac.uk Space Research Centre, http://www.src.le.ac.uk/ Physics and Astronomy Dept, phone +44 (0) 116 223 1039 University of Leicester, fax +44 (0) 116 252 2464 Leicester LE1 7RH, UK http://xmm4.xra.le.ac.uk/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 18 21:47:18 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150658 for opro ; Fri, 18 May 101 21:47:16 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990204617:20:11731:100; Fri, 18 May 2001 16:50:17 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2010576; 18 May 2001 16:49 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4IGknD21644 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 18 May 2001 17:46:49 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4IGkj521641 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 17:46:45 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 150nOv-000PcV-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 18 May 2001 16:46:53 +0000 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 14:54:38 GMT Message-Id: <150628@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Cropped picture in ps/pdf X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Presumeably the point is that GhostScript does do irregular clipping correctly, so any raster that comes out of it (whether it supports masks or not), e.g. the sprites displayed by the GView front end will be OK. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 18 21:47:37 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150666 for opro ; Fri, 18 May 101 21:47:35 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990211734:10:16009:72; Fri, 18 May 2001 18:48:54 GMT Received: from [194.82.200.3] ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1111922; 18 May 2001 18:48 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4IIG6c22119 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 18 May 2001 19:16:06 +0100 Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (mta06-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.46]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4IIG2522116 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 19:16:02 +0100 Received: from riscpc.at.home ([213.107.105.170]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010518181607.BHTG285.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@riscpc.at.home> for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 19:16:07 +0100 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 19:15:34 +0100 From: John Pettigrew To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) Message-ID: <668fb57c4a.john@xl-cambridge.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Organization: XL Cambridge User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10d (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.22 (27 Nov 1998) patch-3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In a previous message, John Waddell wrote: > Is there not the protocol that units should be in lower case? If not, it > might be a good idea? 30ohm. No - depends on the unit. For example, the unit of magnetic field strength, the Tesla, is abbreviated to T, and there are many more examples. It's not that simple, I'm afraid. Besides, if it was then we'd only be able to have 26 different units, one for each letter of the alphabet. Re spaces - I was wondering what people do when units are combined as in "3 kg m^-3"? I'd say that could be very confusing to leave the spaces out ("3kgm^-3" could be read as "three per kilogramme cubed" because kgm is occasionally used as an abbreviation for kilogramme), and seems inconsistent (and would look odd) as "3kg m^-3". John -- John Pettigrew XL Cambridge - Contract and freelance editing and writing Life sciences specialist - molecular biology, genetics, biotechnology john@xl-cambridge.com http://www.xl-cambridge.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 18 21:48:01 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150675 for opro ; Fri, 18 May 101 21:48:00 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990215158:20:14848:279; Fri, 18 May 2001 19:45:58 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2015160; 18 May 2001 19:37 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4IJa1R22453 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 18 May 2001 20:36:01 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4IJZv522450 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 20:35:57 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 150q2b-0008pX-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 18 May 2001 19:36:02 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 20:34:58 +0100 Subject: Re: Paranoia Message-ID: <4a7cbcd459Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a7c7695d9steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> References: <150572@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a7c360051Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4a7c7695d9steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R On 18 May, Steven Pampling wrote: > Set a variable as the script starts, unset it as it completes. > List order of scripts run?? Er, use !SysLog??? What is !Syslog? Where does one get it? -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 18 21:48:04 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150676 for opro ; Fri, 18 May 101 21:48:02 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990217301:20:08718:93; Fri, 18 May 2001 20:21:41 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab2125384; 18 May 2001 20:19 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4IK5CZ22597 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 18 May 2001 21:05:12 +0100 Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow025o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.125]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4IK59522594 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 21:05:09 +0100 Received: from goatly ([213.48.145.72]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Fri, 18 May 2001 20:44:25 +0100 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 20:39:22 +0100 From: Bruce Goatly To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) Message-ID: <9a3bbd7c4a%ovation@goatly.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <668fb57c4a.john@xl-cambridge.com> X-Organization: Perfect Page X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.61b User-Agent: POPstar/2.01b12 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In message <668fb57c4a.john@xl-cambridge.com> John Pettigrew wrote: > Re spaces - I was wondering what people do when units are combined as in > "3 kg m^-3"? I'd say that could be very confusing to leave the spaces out > ("3kgm^-3" could be read as "three per kilogramme cubed" because kgm is > occasionally used as an abbreviation for kilogramme), and seems inconsistent > (and would look odd) as "3kg m^-3". A space is *always* needed unless a solidus or slash (/) is used - otherwise "5 ms^-1" could be either 5 reciprocal milliseconds *or* 5 metres per second. There are good reasons for these rules (as well you know, John!)... Bruce Goatly -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 19 02:17:02 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150693 for opro ; Sat, 19 May 101 02:17:00 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990224693:10:05652:73; Fri, 18 May 2001 22:24:53 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1118958; 18 May 2001 22:24 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4IM4nG22995 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 18 May 2001 23:04:49 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4IM4i522987 for ; Fri, 18 May 2001 23:04:44 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 150sMa-000Ipw-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 18 May 2001 22:04:48 +0000 Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 23:03:07 GMT Message-Id: <150681@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Paranoia X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >What is !Syslog? Where does one get it? Most OPro 'scripts' consist of functions which are loaded on program start up and remain in memory until OPro quits. So you can't use an external program which logs when files are loaded/run to obtain information on what functions are active at any moment. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 19 13:32:57 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150695 for opro ; Sat, 19 May 101 13:32:55 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990255446:10:10294:64; Sat, 19 May 2001 06:57:26 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1009612; 19 May 2001 6:56 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4J6ekb24308 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 19 May 2001 07:40:46 +0100 Received: from typhoon.mail.pipex.net (typhoon.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.27]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4J6eg524305 for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 07:40:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 1021 invoked from network); 19 May 2001 06:40:49 -0000 Received: from usercl48.uk.uudial.com (HELO RiscPC) (62.188.154.189) by smtp-2.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 19 May 2001 06:40:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 21:41:59 +0100 Subject: Re: Paranoia Message-ID: <4a7cc2f74csteve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a7cbcd459Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> References: <150572@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a7c360051Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4a7c7695d9steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> <4a7cbcd4 User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a7cbcd459Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > On 18 May, Steven Pampling wrote: > > Set a variable as the script starts, unset it as it completes. > > List order of scripts run?? Er, use !SysLog??? > What is !Syslog? Where does one get it? This directory contains !SysLog, a logging daemon for Acorn computers. !SysLog is (c) DoggySoft Ltd., 1995, 1996, 1997. Read the '!Help' file inside the archive for copyright and distribution details. Available in the same locales as Socketteer and PopStar and Newshound IIRC -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 19 13:32:58 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150696 for opro ; Sat, 19 May 101 13:32:55 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990256279:20:04876:64; Sat, 19 May 2001 07:11:19 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2004707; 19 May 2001 7:11 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4J707i24427 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 19 May 2001 08:00:07 +0100 Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (mta05-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.45]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4J701524419 for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 08:00:01 +0100 Received: from riscpc.at.home ([213.107.105.170]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010519070009.ITCB272.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@riscpc.at.home> for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 08:00:09 +0100 Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 07:59:32 +0100 From: John Pettigrew To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) Message-ID: <2681fb7c4a.john@xl-cambridge.com> References: <9a3bbd7c4a%ovation@goatly.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <9a3bbd7c4a%ovation@goatly.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: XL Cambridge User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10d (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.22 (27 Nov 1998) patch-3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In a previous message, Bruce Goatly wrote: > In message <668fb57c4a.john@xl-cambridge.com> John Pettigrew wrote: > > > Re spaces - I was wondering what people do when units are combined as in > > "3 kg m^-3"? > A space is *always* needed unless a solidus or slash (/) is used - > otherwise "5 ms^-1" could be either 5 reciprocal milliseconds *or* 5 metres > per second. I agree with you, but there were people here saying that spaces are a bad idea and I was wondering how they coped with situations such as this. John -- John Pettigrew XL Cambridge - Contract and freelance editing and writing Life sciences specialist - molecular biology, genetics, biotechnology john@xl-cambridge.com http://www.xl-cambridge.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 19 13:33:04 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150699 for opro ; Sat, 19 May 101 13:33:02 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990265703:10:18388:66; Sat, 19 May 2001 09:48:23 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1018020; 19 May 2001 9:47 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4J9l7Z24931 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 19 May 2001 10:47:07 +0100 Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow024o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.126]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4J9l4524928 for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 10:47:04 +0100 Received: from goatly ([213.48.250.128]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sat, 19 May 2001 10:49:08 +0100 Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 10:45:16 +0100 From: Bruce Goatly To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) Message-ID: <5dada7d4a%ovation@goatly.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <2681fb7c4a.john@xl-cambridge.com> X-Organization: Perfect Page X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.61b User-Agent: POPstar/2.01b12 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In message <2681fb7c4a.john@xl-cambridge.com> John Pettigrew wrote: > In a previous message, Bruce Goatly wrote: > > > In message <668fb57c4a.john@xl-cambridge.com> John Pettigrew wrote: > > > > > Re spaces - I was wondering what people do when units are combined as in > > > "3 kg m^-3"? > > A space is *always* needed unless a solidus or slash (/) is used - > > otherwise "5 ms^-1" could be either 5 reciprocal milliseconds *or* 5 metres > > per second. > > I agree with you, but there were people here saying that spaces are a bad > idea and I was wondering how they coped with situations such as this. .... and I was giving a slightly better example! I'd be interested, too, to learn what the no-spacers' view is. Bruce -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 19 17:40:27 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150704 for opro ; Sat, 19 May 101 17:40:24 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990288032:10:20035:68; Sat, 19 May 2001 16:00:32 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1123746; 19 May 2001 16:00 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4JFx1626528 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 19 May 2001 16:59:01 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4JFww526525 for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 16:58:58 +0100 Received: from [62.188.13.248] (helo=62.188.13.248) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15195N-0006gE-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 19 May 2001 16:56:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "charles.hope" To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 23:29:09 +0100 Subject: Re: RTF files Message-ID: <4a7c48f102charles.hope@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <06682d7c4a.cmcqueen@cmcqueen.ntlworld.com> References: <4a7b2778f2charles.hope@argonet.co.uk> <06682d7c4a.cmcqueen@cmcqueen.ntlworl User-Agent: Pluto/2.02c (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 17 May, Colin McQueen wrote: > In message <4a7b2778f2charles.hope@argonet.co.uk> > "charles.hope" wrote: > > On 15 May, Mijas Software wrote: > > > On Mon 14 May 2001 (17:38:10 +0100), charles.hope@argonet.co.uk wrote: > > > > I think you're looking at this the wrong way round. I'm trying to > > > > import (RTF) into Ov Pro, not from it. > > > > > > > You can import a single RTF (text) document into OPro by dropping the > > > rtf file (suitably typed) onto the OPro icon bar icon, that is assuming > > > you have the RTF import applet loaded. > > > > > If you want to add the contents of an RTF file to an existing > > > document, you need to import the rtf into a new document and then copy > > > into your existing document. > > > > That is what happens if the RTF document come from Word via a PC, but if I > > export it from Easiwriter as RTF, I can drop it straight into an existing > > document. > > > > My query was why the difference> > > > Does EW and OP use the clipboard or RAM transfer that may be different > to loading from file?? Assuming you DO mean directly for EW>OP. Loading a file (RTF) saved from EW. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 21 22:21:20 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150710 for opro ; Mon, 21 May 101 22:21:17 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990298048:10:28661:75; Sat, 19 May 2001 18:47:28 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1122698; 19 May 2001 18:47 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4JIjev26999 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 19 May 2001 19:45:40 +0100 Received: from typhoon.mail.pipex.net (typhoon.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.27]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4JIjb526996 for ; Sat, 19 May 2001 19:45:37 +0100 Received: (qmail 21130 invoked from network); 19 May 2001 18:45:44 -0000 Received: from userap48.uk.uudial.com (HELO RiscPC) (62.188.136.9) by smtp-2.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 19 May 2001 18:45:44 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sat, 19 May 2001 07:49:43 +0100 Subject: Re: Paranoia Message-ID: <4a7cfa9ad4steve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <150681@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <150681@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In article <150681@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling wrote: > >What is !Syslog? Where does one get it? > Most OPro 'scripts' consist of functions which are loaded on program start > up and remain in memory until OPro quits. So you can't use an > external program which logs when files are loaded/run to obtain information > on what functions are active at any moment. Hmmm?? Newshound, and PopStar remain in memory (if you don't tell them to quit on completion of a download) and use the functions in SysLog to log certain stages of their work. I was thinking that perhaps if a fair number of people are using this already adding the calls into the scripts would be the solution if people can't get a "finish" message from the script because it's still running (waiting to do a job) Admittedly I know next to nothing about programming, but doesn't this make it a little easier? OvP must know when each script has finished to be able to kick off the next (or do they all run at once?) and could do the calls to SysLog. > David Pilling -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 21 22:21:44 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150721 for opro ; Mon, 21 May 101 22:21:43 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990373725:10:05518:66; Sun, 20 May 2001 15:48:45 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1123420; 20 May 2001 15:48 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4KFkc230234 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 20 May 2001 16:46:38 +0100 Received: from smtp04.wxs.nl (smtp04.wxs.nl [195.121.6.59]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4KFkY530231 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 16:46:34 +0100 Received: from delink.wxs.nl ([195.121.163.8]) by smtp04.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 4.05) with SMTP id GDN55M02.EX0 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 17:46:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 17:15:31 +0200 Subject: Hyphenation problems Message-ID: <4a7dacbf6cpaul@delink.nl> User-Agent: Pluto/1.14i (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Dear all, I heavily rely on my large (Dutch) hyphenation dictionary. But I've noticed that particular words always refuse to hyphenate correctly, despite their faultless occurrence in the dict. Is this a known problem? And if so, is there a cure? Kind regards, Paul Sprangers -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 21 23:03:05 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150767 for opro ; Mon, 21 May 101 23:03:02 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990480539:10:11962:71; Mon, 21 May 2001 21:28:59 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1127566; 21 May 2001 21:28 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4LLOt802109 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 21 May 2001 22:24:55 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4LLOn502106 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 22:24:52 +0100 Received: from [62.188.17.201] (helo=62.188.17.201) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 151x7e-0003K2-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 21 May 2001 22:21:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Chris Wragg) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 21:59:47 +0100 X-Organization: ArgoNet, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: Posty - Voyager Email 1.30 for RISC OS 4.02 Subject: Re: Hyphenation problems Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Sun 20 May 2001 (17:15:31 +0200), paul@delink.nl wrote: > I heavily rely on my large (Dutch) hyphenation dictionary. But I've > noticed that particular words always refuse to hyphenate correctly, > despite their faultless occurrence in the dict. > Is this a known problem? And if so, is there a cure? Yes, a problem known at least to me, but when I brought it up about a year ago no one else admitted to similar experiences :-( DP was unable to come up with an explanation. Glad to know I am not alone at last, but I can't help with a solution. To be honest, I have not relied on hyphenation so much recently, so it has slipped out of mind over the last few months. ChrisW > To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk > with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message > -- --------------------------------------- Chris Wragg, Banham, Norfolk cwragg@argonet.co.uk RISC OS software - Mathematics - Walking - BASIC programming ... ... http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/cwragg ------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 22 17:52:11 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150772 for opro ; Tue, 22 May 101 17:52:09 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990483118:10:22947:68; Mon, 21 May 2001 22:11:58 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1021984; 21 May 2001 22:10 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4LM0sj02303 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 21 May 2001 23:00:54 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4LM0n502293 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 23:00:49 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 151xjU-0006F3-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 21 May 2001 22:00:56 +0000 Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 22:56:45 GMT Message-Id: <150760@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Hyphenation problems X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro No idea, hyphenation should work as advertised. How about an example by private email (david@pilling.demon.co.uk) David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 22 17:52:18 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150776 for opro ; Tue, 22 May 101 17:52:16 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990484866:10:21124:72; Mon, 21 May 2001 22:41:06 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1125260; 21 May 2001 22:40 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4LM0wT02307 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 21 May 2001 23:00:58 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4KLYT531213 for ; Sun, 20 May 2001 22:34:29 +0100 Received: from [62.188.150.250] (helo=62.188.150.250) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 151anZ-0002YI-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sun, 20 May 2001 22:31:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: John McCartney To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 21:05:02 +0100 Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) Message-ID: <4a7dc7410ajohnmc@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02b (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 18 May, John Pettigrew wrote: > Re spaces - I was wondering what people do when units are combined as in > "3 kg m^-3"? I'd say that could be very confusing to leave the spaces > out ("3kgm^-3" could be read as "three per kilogramme cubed" because kgm > is occasionally used as an abbreviation for kilogramme), and seems > inconsistent (and would look odd) as "3kg m^-3". I think you'll find that every conceivable case is covered in the NIST document for which Alan gave the URL. It's not a difficult document to read because most of it concerns areas of expertise with which most of us wouldn't be interested. The most important bits occupy only a fraction of the 80-odd pages. While I was casually looking through the document I found something odd on page 78 of the file (page 66 of the document). Amongst the conversion factors for non-SI time units to their equivalent SI quantity there is listed the 'shake' equivalent to 10 ns. Does anyone know what branch of science/technology uses the unit or has the document compiler sneaked in his own little joke? John -- John McCartney johnmc@argonet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 22 17:52:39 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150784 for opro ; Tue, 22 May 101 17:52:37 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990521660:10:00924:114; Tue, 22 May 2001 08:54:20 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1125196; 22 May 2001 8:53 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4M8r3p04220 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 22 May 2001 09:53:03 +0100 Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow025o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.125]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4M8r0504217 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 09:53:00 +0100 Received: from goatly ([213.48.248.134]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 22 May 2001 09:55:10 +0100 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 09:44:07 +0100 From: Bruce Goatly To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) Message-ID: <696907e4a%ovation@goatly.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: Perfect Page X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.61b User-Agent: POPstar/2.01b12 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In message you wrote: > SI distinguishes between the unit and its symbol: units other than Celsius > are (according to the URL > http://www.npl.co.uk/npl/reference/si_conventions.html kindly provided by > Keith Bamford, but I have not checked the eighty page document to which it > refers - thanks Keith) always spelled with a small letter but symbols for > units named after a person with a capital, for example nine metres and nine > newtons but 9 m and 9 N. I'm not quite sure why you exclude Celsius here - Anders Celsius was most definitely a person (even if he did invent the scale the other way around)! If you mean that the unit bears a capital, that's because, in the name of the unit, Celsius is a modifier rather than the name itself - its name is 'degree Celsius' (in contradistinction to 'degree Fahrenheit' and all the others), unlike the kelvin (which is the unit's full name). > imho the most interesting threads are those which are OT - perhaps because I > can never think of a computer as anything other than a rather boring tool - > what we use it for is much more interesting. Indeed... (And it gives such a good opportunity for parading knowledge!) Bruce -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 22 17:52:50 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150775 for opro ; Tue, 22 May 101 17:52:13 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990483943:20:21765:70; Mon, 21 May 2001 22:25:43 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2106806; 21 May 2001 22:25 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4LM0u302306 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 21 May 2001 23:00:56 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4LM0o502297 for ; Mon, 21 May 2001 23:00:50 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 151xjW-0006F3-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 21 May 2001 22:00:58 +0000 Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 22:57:53 GMT Message-Id: <150762@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Paranoia X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Yep, plan B would be to modify scripts, so that each function entry and exit point was logged. Someone could write a program to do this or adapt an existing program for C programs. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 22 17:52:56 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150791 for opro ; Tue, 22 May 101 17:52:53 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990537747:10:12816:65; Tue, 22 May 2001 13:22:27 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1012724; 22 May 2001 13:22 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4MDJNT05060 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:19:23 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4MDJK505057 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:19:20 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 152C4M-0009rR-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 22 May 2001 13:19:27 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 14:19:53 +0100 Subject: Questions about scripts and applets... Message-ID: <4a7ea9d57bJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R I've just finished reading through the Script language Reference for the 3rd time (who needs a life, anyway?) and have a few questions. I apologise in advance for any that are answered somewhere if I've not seen the significance of the answer when I read it... a) on p11 l%r for strings is described as equivalent to strspn(l,r) - but I can't find anything that ddescribes that function - what is it? b) on p24 fileopen() mode says that a trailing b means a binary rather than text file; what does this imply? - that text files have only 7-bit ascii, or that CR &/ LF are treated differently, or what? c) I think I understand that when a specific script is executing the functions available to it are those it itself defines, plus those defined in any library scripts, plus all the functions within OP that DP has documented. Similary for global variables, and what I assume are manifest constants like DOTTED and TEXTFRAME. Is there a way to get automatically a definitive list of functions that are at that point in time available for use from a particular script? I don't really mean this listing/query to be something that would itself be run as part of a script, rather something one could do while writing & testing a script to check that a function one was about to write didn't have a name that conflicted with another one somewhere else? Likewise for global variables and manifest constants? d) Alternatively is there a commonly adhered to "standard" that allows each of us to develop our own functions, vars and constants without tripping over other people's ones? In particular is there any way I can guarantee that my functions, vars, constants won't be named the same way as future code from DP? The only reference I've found to any such standard was in the text about tagged data, which referes to "the standard applet 3 letter prefix". Where is this standard documented? Is there any central allocation mechanism for these (like the way filetypes work)? e) I assume that the number of clipboards is set within the icon-bar preferences area. If that is > 1 then does the icon-bar Clipboard... option only ever show the current clipboard? In the sample macros nextclip & prevclip what happens when setcurrentclipboard() is called with an index parm that is out of range? -- does clipboard numbering wraparound so that the next one after the last is the first one again etc? f) When the caret is in a particular frame, does the concept "newpage" really mean "top of next frame"? g) p75 - is tagged data visible in DDL files? If not, is there any plan to add such support to DDL? The note under tagreads() shows how you can easily arrange for each applet to have 256 different tags; presumably if you need more there is no reason why you couldn't ignore that suggestion, albeit risking a clash with another applet? Is there a size limit for a tagged string? For integer tag values, am I right in thinking that several integers can be stored (under different index values) in a single tag, and if so what is the range of valid index values? h) p91 - are bookmark definitions visible in DDL files? If not, is there any plan to add such support to DDL? i) Is there a way to list the names of all the bookmarks in a particular document? j) p109 - I can't understand the point being made for event 0x137 where if current clip=6 and the total is changed to 3. It says that the current then becomes no 2 but I don't see why that is... k) Are scripts interpreted or compiled or something inbetween? l) Do script functions support recursive calls of themselves, and/or one function calling another and that in turn calling the first one? m) What's the maximum depth of function calls? n) Is there any way to tell if the overflow flag is set on a particular frame? o) Is there any way to test if the caret position in a frame is within the printable area for the currently defined printer & paper? p) When the caret is within a frame, I assume that there must be someway in which OP knows that position, probably relative to the frame's coordinates(?). Is there any way to get at the information so that a script can calculate the vertical space between that point and the end of the frame? -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 22 17:52:59 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150793 for opro ; Tue, 22 May 101 17:52:57 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990543088:10:05417:79; Tue, 22 May 2001 14:51:28 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1005225; 22 May 2001 14:50 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4MEoFo05381 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 22 May 2001 15:50:15 +0100 Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4MEoB505378 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 15:50:11 +0100 Received: from riscpc.at.home ([213.107.105.170]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010522145020.NADH285.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@riscpc.at.home> for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 15:50:20 +0100 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 15:49:42 +0100 From: John Pettigrew To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Questions about scripts and applets... Message-ID: <740eb27e4a.john@xl-cambridge.com> References: <4a7ea9d57bJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a7ea9d57bJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: XL Cambridge User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10d (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.22 (27 Nov 1998) patch-3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In a previous message, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > d) Alternatively is there a commonly adhered to "standard" that allows > each of us to develop our own functions, vars and constants without > tripping over other people's ones? It's usual to prefix your own variables etc with the name of the applet. For example, you might have functions called test_main and text_open, with variables called test_var1 and text_var2. Have a look at some of the other applets out there to see what people do. > e) I assume that the number of clipboards is set within the icon-bar > preferences area. If that is > 1 then does the icon-bar Clipboard... > option only ever show the current clipboard? Yes > j) p109 - I can't understand the point being made for event 0x137 where > if current clip=6 and the total is changed to 3. It says that the > current then becomes no 2 but I don't see why that is... If the current clipboard is number 6 and you tell OvPro that there are now only 3 clipboards, it intelligently realises that 6 is no longer a valid number for the current clipboard and sets it to the number of the highest existing clipboard, which is 2 in this case (because the numbering runs from 0, not 1). > Wow - big list. I'll leave the others for someone else because I'm not sure of the answers offhand. John -- John Pettigrew XL Cambridge - Contract and freelance editing and writing Life sciences specialist - molecular biology, genetics, biotechnology john@xl-cambridge.com http://www.xl-cambridge.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 22 17:53:00 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150794 for opro ; Tue, 22 May 101 17:52:59 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990512228:20:25120:65; Tue, 22 May 2001 06:17:08 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2129713; 22 May 2001 6:17 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4M6GDO03746 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 22 May 2001 07:16:13 +0100 Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow028o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.124]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4M6G8503743 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 07:16:09 +0100 Received: from bgba01526.blueyonder.co.uk ([213.48.114.145]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 22 May 2001 07:18:11 +0100 Date: Mon, 21 May 2001 08:09:23 +0100 (BST) From: Barry Gray Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <2681fb7c4a.john@xl-cambridge.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Barry Gray E-mail: barrygray@blueyonder.co.uk X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Sat 19 May, John Pettigrew wrote: > In a previous message, Bruce Goatly wrote: > > > In message <668fb57c4a.john@xl-cambridge.com> John Pettigrew wrote: > > > > > Re spaces - I was wondering what people do when units are combined as in > > > "3 kg m^-3"? > > A space is *always* needed unless a solidus or slash (/) is used - > > otherwise "5 ms^-1" could be either 5 reciprocal milliseconds *or* 5 metres > > per second. > > I agree with you, but there were people here saying that spaces are a bad > idea and I was wondering how they coped with situations such as this. > > John I was the one that started this discussion and I don't think anyone has said that spaces were a bad thing, I only said (mistakenly) that SI did not require them. As many people have said, SI does require them and there are good reasons for this. A search of the literature, including science text books to A level, does however show that *simple* quantities are very often printed without spaces, for example 9m, and most *handwritten* texts by students and teachers omit them. Outside the SI most people omit spaces - whoever heard of a price of 35p? -- Barry Gray http://www.barrygray.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 22 17:53:05 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150797 for opro ; Tue, 22 May 101 17:53:04 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990544741:10:09891:65; Tue, 22 May 2001 15:19:01 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1120643; 22 May 2001 15:18 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4MFI0m05517 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 22 May 2001 16:18:00 +0100 Received: from cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.172]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4MFHu505514 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 16:17:56 +0100 Received: from modem-188.arizona.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.54.188] helo=beeston12) by cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 152Dv9-0000ob-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 22 May 2001 16:18:03 +0100 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:17:29 +0100 From: Robin Phillips To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Ov Pro Manual chapter 7 errors Message-ID: <8599b47e4a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> X-Organization: home X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.64b User-Agent: POPstar/2.03 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Dear colleagues, Having recently installed version 2.60 and then upgraded to 2.63, i am irritated to find that the manual supplied on the CD is deficient in chapter 7. One of the View Options is Spelling errors, and I hoped to find something about it in the manual. Nothing is visible in pages 85 onwards, as suggested in the index. Secondly, p.85 talks of ruler guidelines and refers us to illustration 8.4, repeating an error unchanged from the printed manual I have here. The reference should actually be to figure 7.5. Could you let me have your info about Spelling errors, please. Will corrected texts be made available through the web-site. and how will we get to know when they have been up-dated? Yours sincerely, Robin. -- Robin Phillips, 1, Newcastle Avenue, Beeston, Notts., NG9 1BT; Phone: +44 (0)115 922 4930 E-mail: rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 22 17:53:11 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150800 for opro ; Tue, 22 May 101 17:53:10 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990520599:20:10961:65; Tue, 22 May 2001 08:36:39 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2123719; 22 May 2001 8:35 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4M8ZCn04131 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 22 May 2001 09:35:12 +0100 Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow034o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.122]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4M8Z8504128 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 09:35:08 +0100 Received: from bgba01526.blueyonder.co.uk ([213.48.114.79]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Tue, 22 May 2001 07:24:41 +0000 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 08:07:42 +0100 (BST) From: Barry Gray Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <668fb57c4a.john@xl-cambridge.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Barry Gray E-mail: barrygray@blueyonder.co.uk X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Fri 18 May, John Pettigrew wrote: > In a previous message, John Waddell wrote: > > > Is there not the protocol that units should be in lower case? If not, it > > might be a good idea? 30ohm. > > No - depends on the unit. For example, the unit of magnetic field strength, > the Tesla, is abbreviated to T, and there are many more examples. It's not > that simple, I'm afraid. Besides, if it was then we'd only be able to have 26 > different units, one for each letter of the alphabet. > > > John SI distinguishes between the unit and its symbol: units other than Celsius are (according to the URL http://www.npl.co.uk/npl/reference/si_conventions.html kindly provided by Keith Bamford, but I have not checked the eighty page document to which it refers - thanks Keith) always spelled with a small letter but symbols for units named after a person with a capital, for example nine metres and nine newtons but 9 m and 9 N. There are several SI symbols consisting of more than one letter, for example Pa for pascal, Hz for hertz and Bq for becquerel. I am currently updating my web site and worksheets on an almost daily basis basis in the light of this interesting but quite OT thread - thanks to everyone who is contributing. imho the most interesting threads are those which are OT - perhaps because I can never think of a computer as anything other than a rather boring tool - what we use it for is much more interesting. -- Barry Gray http://www.barrygray.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 22 17:53:14 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150801 for opro ; Tue, 22 May 101 17:53:12 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990525021:20:06885:80; Tue, 22 May 2001 09:50:21 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2006406; 22 May 2001 9:49 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4M9msb04483 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 22 May 2001 10:48:54 +0100 Received: from smtp06.wxs.nl (smtp06.wxs.nl [195.121.6.58]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4M9mo504480 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 10:48:50 +0100 Received: from delink.wxs.nl ([195.121.160.168]) by smtp06.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 4.05) with SMTP id GDQDXL01.UV6 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 11:48:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 11:48:51 +0200 Subject: Hyphenation problems Message-ID: <4a7e968372paul@delink.nl> In-Reply-To: <150760@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <150760@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/1.14i (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R > No idea, hyphenation should work as advertised. > How about an example by private email (david@pilling.demon.co.uk) I suppose that just sending a word, that doesn't hyphenate correctly, won't be enough. Probably you also need the dictionary. But this is huge! (nearly 1 Mb). Still interested? Kind regards, Paul Sprangers -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 22 17:53:55 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150811 for opro ; Tue, 22 May 101 17:53:53 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990545536:20:00714:70; Tue, 22 May 2001 15:32:16 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2127165; 22 May 2001 15:31 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4MFPG205611 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 22 May 2001 16:25:16 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4MFPC505608 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 16:25:12 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 152E2B-000CMw-0U for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 22 May 2001 16:25:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:24:04 +0100 Subject: Re: Questions about scripts and applets... Message-ID: <4a7eb533d8Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <740eb27e4a.john@xl-cambridge.com> References: <4a7ea9d57bJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <740eb27e4a.john@xl-cambridge.com> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 22 May, John Pettigrew wrote: > > j) p109 - I can't understand the point being made for event 0x137 > > where if current clip=6 and the total is changed to 3. It says > > that the current then becomes no 2 but I don't see why that is... > If the current clipboard is number 6 and you tell OvPro that there are > now only 3 clipboards, it intelligently realises that 6 is no longer a > valid number for the current clipboard that's fair enough... > and sets it to the number of the highest existing clipboard, which presumably means that the previous contents of clipboard no 2 have been sacrificed without the user realising this... I'd admit that no sensible user should change the number of clipboards without making sure that they know what is going to go missing, but I'd have thought that people might expect the prior contents of number 2 to remain... Of course users won't change it at all unless they use the function to do so; this suggests that this issue should be explained at the function level rather than only at the event level. > which is 2 in this case (because the numbering runs from 0, not 1). Normal enough in programming terms, but the "maximum number" that people will remember is the n+1 value that is set in the prefernces box. Maybe the preferences box should ask for number of extra clipboards and emphasize that there's always at least one of them. -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 22 17:53:58 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150812 for opro ; Tue, 22 May 101 17:53:56 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990545911:20:09469:72; Tue, 22 May 2001 15:38:31 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2113401; 22 May 2001 15:38 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4MFato05754 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 22 May 2001 16:36:55 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4MFap505751 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 16:36:51 +0100 Received: from mk-net.demon.co.uk ([194.222.12.18] helo=Tonys) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 152EDS-0004L5-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 22 May 2001 15:36:58 +0000 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:23:28 +0100 From: Tony van der Hoff To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Questions about scripts and applets... Message-ID: References: <4a7ea9d57bJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a7ea9d57bJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: CCC User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10d (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 22 May 2001, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > I've just finished reading through the Script language Reference for the > 3rd time (who needs a life, anyway?) and have a few questions. I > apologise in advance for any that are answered somewhere if I've not seen > the significance of the answer when I read it... > Well, I don't know the answeres to all your questions, maybe others will chip in; but heres a start: The Script language is very similar to C, and assumes a working aquaintance with that language. Not ideal, but it suits most people. I suggest you get hold of the C Stronghelp manual at least. I you're seriously going to write any scripts, you may find a C manual to be necessary. > a) on p11 l%r for strings is described as equivalent to strspn(l,r) - but > I can't find anything that ddescribes that function - what is it? returns the length of the prefix of string l consisting of characters in string r. > > b) on p24 fileopen() mode says that a trailing b means a binary rather > than text file; what does this imply? - that text files have only > 7-bit ascii, or that CR &/ LF are treated differently, or what? > text files contain LF line endings > c) I think I understand that when a specific script is executing the > functions available to it are those it itself defines, plus those > defined in any library scripts, plus all the functions within OP that > DP has documented. correct > > Similary for global variables, and what I assume are manifest > constants like DOTTED and TEXTFRAME. correct > > Is there a way to get automatically a definitive list of functions that > are at that point in time available for use from a particular script? > I don't really mean this listing/query to be something that would > itself be run as part of a script, rather something one could do while > writing & testing a script to check that a function one was about to > write didn't have a name that conflicted with another one somewhere > else? > > Likewise for global variables and manifest constants? > not as far as I know. > d) Alternatively is there a commonly adhered to "standard" that allows > each of us to develop our own functions, vars and constants without > tripping over other people's ones? In particular is there any way > I can guarantee that my functions, vars, constants won't be named the > same way as future code from DP? > Not really. Most of us prefix the applet name to applet-specific functions. However, in practice, clashes don't seem occur too often > The only reference I've found to any such standard was in the text > about tagged data, which referes to "the standard applet 3 letter > prefix". Where is this standard documented? Is there any central > allocation mechanism for these (like the way filetypes work)? no central mechanism, I'm afraid. > > e) I assume that the number of clipboards is set within the icon-bar > preferences area. If that is > 1 then does the icon-bar Clipboard... > option only ever show the current clipboard? > No, you can have multiple clipboards, if you have John Pettigrew's clipboards applet running. The number set in Clipboards overrides the number set on the main application choices, but does not save it. The Clipboards applet contains a help file. Clipboard... shows the currently selected clipboard > In the sample macros nextclip & prevclip what happens when > setcurrentclipboard() is called with an index parm that is out of > range? -- does clipboard numbering wraparound so that the next one > after the last is the first one again etc? I find the easest way to find out that sort of thing is to try it... Anyway, I believe the current clipboard number is always modulo the total. > > f) When the caret is in a particular frame, does the concept "newpage" > really mean "top of next frame"? Only if the frames are linked. > > g) p75 - is tagged data visible in DDL files? If not, is there any plan > to add such support to DDL? > > The note under tagreads() shows how you can easily arrange for each > applet to have 256 different tags; presumably if you need more there > is no reason why you couldn't ignore that suggestion, albeit risking > a clash with another applet? > > Is there a size limit for a tagged string? > > For integer tag values, am I right in thinking that several integers > can be stored (under different index values) in a single tag, and if > so what is the range of valid index values? > Don't know; never used tags. > h) p91 - are bookmark definitions visible in DDL files? If not, is there > any plan to add such support to DDL? > > i) Is there a way to list the names of all the bookmarks in a particular > document? > > j) p109 - I can't understand the point being made for event 0x137 where > if current clip=6 and the total is changed to 3. It says that the > current then becomes no 2 but I don't see why that is... as (e) above; 6 modulo 3 is 2. For 3 clipboards, the numbering goes 0,1,2,0,1,... > > k) Are scripts interpreted or compiled or something inbetween? interpreted > > l) Do script functions support recursive calls of themselves, and/or > one function calling another and that in turn calling the first one? > yes > m) What's the maximum depth of function calls? > determined by available memory. > n) Is there any way to tell if the overflow flag is set on a particular > frame? > don't know. > o) Is there any way to test if the caret position in a frame is within the > printable area for the currently defined printer & paper? > I'm pretty sure there is, but I think others will know better... > p) When the caret is within a frame, I assume that there must be someway > in which OP knows that position, probably relative to the frame's > coordinates(?). Is there any way to get at the information so > that a script can calculate the vertical space between that point and > the end of the frame? > > I'm pretty sure there is, but I think others will know better... -- Tony van der Hoff | MailTo:tony@mk-net.demon.co.uk | MailTo:avanderhoff@iee.org Buckinghamshire, England | http:mk-net.demon.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 22 17:54:06 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150815 for opro ; Tue, 22 May 101 17:54:05 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990547161:20:09897:67; Tue, 22 May 2001 15:59:21 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2008604; 22 May 2001 15:58 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4MFkA705876 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 22 May 2001 16:46:10 +0100 Received: from holyrood.ed.ac.uk (holyrood.ed.ac.uk [129.215.16.14]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4MFk6505873 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 16:46:06 +0100 Received: from alfred.ed.ac.uk (dialup-133.publab.ed.ac.uk [129.215.38.133]) by holyrood.ed.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA27157 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 16:46:12 +0100 (BST) Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 16:48:06 +0100 (BST) From: Alf Chamings Subject: Re: Cropped picture in ps/pdf To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Fri 18 May, Tony van der Hoff wrote: > On 18 May 2001, Alf Chamings wrote: > > [snip] > > First I had a reply from Nicholas van der Hoff at Cerilica > > van der Walle. > My apologies! I don't know what produced that slip. The name must have been lurking in my mind somehow. Alf -- Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh, EH3 9YW, UK tel +44 131 536 3251 fax +44 131 536 3283 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 22 17:54:11 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150816 for opro ; Tue, 22 May 101 17:54:07 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990548559:20:12955:66; Tue, 22 May 2001 16:22:39 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2103881; 22 May 2001 16:22 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4MGLUj06099 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 22 May 2001 17:21:30 +0100 Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4MGLR506096 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 17:21:27 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 152Eub-000Kjn-0B for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 22 May 2001 16:21:33 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 17:15:57 +0100 Subject: Re: Questions about scripts and applets... Message-ID: <4a7eb9f3d0Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4a7ea9d57bJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 22 May, Tony van der Hoff wrote: > I you're seriously going to write any scripts, you may find a C manual > to be necessary. I've got a few C textbooks, but there's no problem understanding the C part of the scripts. I program for a living. > > a) on p11 l%r for strings is described as equivalent to strspn(l,r) - but > > I can't find anything that ddescribes that function - what is it? > returns the length of the prefix of string l consisting of characters in > string r. > > d) Alternatively is there a commonly adhered to "standard" that > > allows each of us to develop our own functions, vars and constants > > without tripping over other people's ones? In particular is > > there any way I can guarantee that my functions, vars, constants > > won't be named the same way as future code from DP? > > > Not really. Most of us prefix the applet name to applet-specific > functions. However, in practice, clashes don't seem occur too often TBH I'm more concerned about global vars & manifest constants, because it strikes me that the sort of intuitive names that one programmer will come up with tend to be the same as those that someone else invents; OP must have a large number of global variables of its own. Are these isolated from the script ones, or is it possible for a "rogue" script to overwrite OP's own internal storage? > > e) I assume that the number of clipboards is set within the icon-bar > > preferences area. If that is > 1 then does the icon-bar > > Clipboard... option only ever show the current clipboard? > > > No, you can have multiple clipboards, if you have John Pettigrew's > clipboards applet running. The number set in Clipboards overrides the > number set on the main application choices, but does not save it. The > Clipboards applet contains a help file. Clipboard... shows the > currently selected clipboard The implication of the script manual is that you get multiple clipboards without John's applet; it may be that his applet makes them easier for a person (rather than scripts) to use. I can look at applet source to see how they improve on the fundamental facilities, but it is the limits of the internal functions that really interest me. > > In the sample macros nextclip & prevclip what happens when > > setcurrentclipboard() is called with an index parm that is out of > > range? -- does clipboard numbering wraparound so that the next one > > after the last is the first one again etc? > I find the easest way to find out that sort of thing is to try it... > Anyway, I believe the current clipboard number is always modulo the > total. I'm usually happier to know what the designed interface is rather than what it happens to be doing today, if you see what I mean; that way you only get a shock in a later release if there is an explicit change of design. > > f) When the caret is in a particular frame, does the concept "newpage" > > really mean "top of next frame"? > Only if the frames are linked. Ok, if the frames are not linked, I suppose you'd get the master frame on the next page? If the frames are linked, is there some way to force a new page without filling up the remaining frame(s) space(s) with white spaces? Putting it another way is there a straightforward way to distinguish between skip-to-next-frame and skip-to-next-page? > > k) Are scripts interpreted or compiled or something inbetween? > interpreted I really asked this because I was wondering if big applets could be speeded up somehow; I've assumed that for speed the internal OP functions are compiled but that might make it trickier for efficient scripting to be supported, especially if the scripts are compiled first. One way to get around that would be a sort of internal tokenising of scripts so that they were slightly ahead of raw source when being executed. OTOH there's nothing that says scripts are efficient; they don't necessarily have to be - what's important is that they are versatile and possible at all. > > m) What's the maximum depth of function calls? > determined by available memory. But how, and within what sort of limits? -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 22 17:54:19 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150819 for opro ; Tue, 22 May 101 17:54:18 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990550123:20:29682:68; Tue, 22 May 2001 16:48:43 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2029339; 22 May 2001 16:48 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4MGlcs06244 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 22 May 2001 17:47:38 +0100 Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (mta02-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.42]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4MGlY506241 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 17:47:34 +0100 Received: from riscpc.at.home ([213.107.105.170]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010522164743.TMWP290.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@riscpc.at.home> for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 17:47:43 +0100 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 17:47:01 +0100 From: John Pettigrew To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Questions about scripts and applets... Message-ID: <4eccbc7e4a.john@xl-cambridge.com> References: <4a7ea9d57bJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <740eb27e4a.john@xl-cambridge.com> <4a7eb533d8Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a7eb533d8Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: XL Cambridge User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10d (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.22 (27 Nov 1998) patch-3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In a previous message, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > On 22 May, John Pettigrew wrote: > > > If the current clipboard is number 6 and you tell OvPro that there are > > now only 3 clipboards, it intelligently realises that 6 is no longer a > > valid number for the current clipboard and sets it to the number of the > > highest existing clipboard, > > which presumably means that the previous contents of clipboard no 2 have > been sacrificed without the user realising this... I rather think that it's actually clipboards 3-5 that have been sacrificed. So, instead of being on the clipboard you thought, you're now on a different one - but that's your fault for reducing the number of clipboards! :-) John -- John Pettigrew XL Cambridge - Contract and freelance editing and writing Life sciences specialist - molecular biology, genetics, biotechnology john@xl-cambridge.com http://www.xl-cambridge.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 22 19:24:44 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150836 for opro ; Tue, 22 May 101 19:24:40 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990552706:10:20291:67; Tue, 22 May 2001 17:31:46 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1020110; 22 May 2001 17:31 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4MHU8806487 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 22 May 2001 18:30:08 +0100 Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (mta07-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.47]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4MHU4506484 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 18:30:04 +0100 Received: from riscpc.at.home ([213.107.105.170]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010522173013.QPST285.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@riscpc.at.home> for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 18:30:13 +0100 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 18:29:31 +0100 From: John Pettigrew To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Questions about scripts and applets... Message-ID: <10b0c07e4a.john@xl-cambridge.com> References: <4a7ea9d57bJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4a7eb9f3d0Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a7eb9f3d0Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: XL Cambridge User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10d (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.22 (27 Nov 1998) patch-3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In a previous message, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > The implication of the script manual is that you get multiple clipboards > without John's applet; You do - they were introduced in 2.57 > it may be that his applet makes them easier for a person (rather than > scripts) to use. That's the point, correct. John -- John Pettigrew XL Cambridge - Contract and freelance editing and writing Life sciences specialist - molecular biology, genetics, biotechnology john@xl-cambridge.com http://www.xl-cambridge.com/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 22 19:49:22 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150845 for opro ; Tue, 22 May 101 19:49:20 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990556861:20:01787:66; Tue, 22 May 2001 18:41:01 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2123626; 22 May 2001 18:40 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4MIMKq06736 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 22 May 2001 19:22:20 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4MIMD506733 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 19:22:13 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 152GnU-000P3n-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 22 May 2001 18:22:20 +0000 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 19:23:28 GMT Message-Id: <150830@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Hyphenation problems X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Yes I'd need the dictionary... maybe it will compress. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 22 21:43:39 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150849 for opro ; Tue, 22 May 101 21:43:36 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990557827:20:12169:65; Tue, 22 May 2001 18:57:07 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2128804; 22 May 2001 18:56 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4MIMDm06731 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 22 May 2001 19:22:13 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4MIM8506728 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 19:22:08 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 152GnP-000P3n-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 22 May 2001 18:22:15 +0000 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 18:28:57 GMT Message-Id: <150828@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Ov Pro Manual chapter 7 errors X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >irritated to find that the manual supplied on the CD is deficient in chapter >7. One of the View Options is Spelling errors, and I hoped to find something >about it in the manual. Nothing is visible in pages 85 onwards, as suggested >in the index. Fair comment, the section on View options doesn't mention the spelling setting. The chapter on Spelling of course does cover it, and thats where the index points to. >Secondly, p.85 talks of ruler guidelines and refers us to illustration 8.4, Refers to section 8.4, not figure 8.4. >Could you let me have your info about Spelling errors, please. Will I guess I'll add a comment refering to the spell check chapter to the section on view options. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 22 21:43:44 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150850 for opro ; Tue, 22 May 101 21:43:40 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990561815:10:18541:68; Tue, 22 May 2001 20:03:35 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1017769; 22 May 2001 20:02 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4MK1j607403 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 22 May 2001 21:01:45 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4MK1f507400 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 21:01:41 +0100 Received: from [62.188.26.163] (helo=62.188.26.163) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 152IIm-00052W-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 22 May 2001 20:58:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: David Breakwell To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:54:16 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Questions about scripts and applets... Message-ID: <4a7ed36ed8davidb@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a7ea9d57bJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> References: <4a7ea9d57bJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02b (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a7ea9d57bJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > d) Alternatively is there a commonly adhered to "standard" that allows > each of us to develop our own functions, vars and constants without > tripping over other people's ones? In particular is there any way I > can guarantee that my functions, vars, constants won't be named the > same way as future code from DP? I tend to name all the global variables and functions with either the three letters used for tags or the applet name or a short form of the applet name. As long as you are consistant a simple global search and replace can quite easily correct any name clash. To be honest I've never had any real problems in this area. > g) p75 - is tagged data visible in DDL files? If not, is there any > plan to add such support to DDL? Its not visible - I did think about writing an applet to allow the export of tags and bookmarks and then provide a key into the document to actually locate the bookmarks. This would allow !MakeRTF for example to add index marks (from !IdxPro) and other data into the produced RTF. Its really a question of need - if somebody felt it would be useful then it may creep up the priority list. > Is there a size limit for a tagged string? Not as far as I am aware - take a look at the tagged strings in the Script manual on the CD that hold the !IdxPro index information - this are quite large! > h) p91 - are bookmark definitions visible in DDL files? If not, is > there any plan to add such support to DDL? > i) Is there a way to list the names of all the bookmarks in a particular > document? Yes and many applets show you how to do this - if you are thinking of using bookmarks in your applet then I urge you to consider implementing the functions of !!!!!!!bm (see CD) as these are helpful to the user and extend the functionallity of your applet (thanks Rupert). IdxPro makes extensive use of both tagged data and bookmarks - if you can understand the code then this may help you understand some of these features. > k) Are scripts interpreted or compiled or something inbetween? Scripts are quite fast - IdxPro is quite complex and in its latest release is not impossibly slow (previous releases were not tuned for performnace so were slower). > l) Do script functions support recursive calls of themselves, and/or one > function calling another and that in turn calling the first one? Yes - IdxPro uses a standard recursive quicksort function for sorting the index entries - the depth of sort does not appear to have caused any issues. > n) Is there any way to tell if the overflow flag is set on a particular > frame? > o) Is there any way to test if the caret position in a frame is within > the printable area for the currently defined printer & paper? > p) When the caret is within a frame, I assume that there must be someway > in which OP knows that position, probably relative to the frame's > coordinates(?). Is there any way to get at the information so that > a script can calculate the vertical space between that point and the > end of the frame? No, basically Applets can insert text and read text but have no information regarding text or caret location. Hope this helps David PS: Sorry about the frequent references to IdxPro but this is my most complex applet and I think it is one of the largest (in terms of lines and data handling) around. -- --. --. --. --. : : --- --- .---------------------------------------------. |_| |_| | _ | | | | |_ | |Author IdxPro,Newframe,WordWrks and Labeller | | | |\ | | | | |\| | | '---------------------------------------------' | | | \ |_| |_| | | |__ | davidb@argonet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 22 21:43:46 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150851 for opro ; Tue, 22 May 101 21:43:41 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990558656:20:18566:65; Tue, 22 May 2001 19:10:56 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2120470; 22 May 2001 19:10 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4MIM6w06726 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 22 May 2001 19:22:06 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4MIM2506723 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 19:22:02 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 152GnI-000P3n-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 22 May 2001 18:22:08 +0000 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 18:14:00 GMT Message-Id: <150826@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Questions about scripts and applets... X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >a) on p11 l%r for strings is described as equivalent to strspn(l,r) - but > I can't find anything that ddescribes that function - what is it? See documentation on the C function with the same name (I don't recall ever having used it). >b) on p24 fileopen() mode says that a trailing b means a binary rather > than text file; what does this imply? - that text files have only > 7-bit ascii, or that CR &/ LF are treated differently, or what? No difference in practice, but it passes on the parameters to the C fopen() function. > Is there a way to get automatically a definitive list of functions that > are at that point in time available for use from a particular script? No. > Likewise for global variables and manifest constants? Likewise no. >d) Alternatively is there a commonly adhered to "standard" that allows > each of us to develop our own functions, vars and constants without > tripping over other people's ones? There's this idea that applets should choose a unique prefix for all names. Presumeably this is not foolproof, but given the small size of the OPro world it should be workable. >e) I assume that the number of clipboards is set within the icon-bar > preferences area. If that is > 1 then does the icon-bar Clipboard... > option only ever show the current clipboard? Yes, yes. > In the sample macros nextclip & prevclip what happens when > setcurrentclipboard() is called with an index parm that is out of > range? There is range checking code which forces it back into range. >f) When the caret is in a particular frame, does the concept "newpage" > really mean "top of next frame"? Hmm. OPro does support nextpage and nextframe concepts. >g) p75 - is tagged data visible in DDL files? No. >If not, is there any plan to add such support to DDL? No. > The note under tagreads() shows how you can easily arrange for each > applet to have 256 different tags; presumably if you need more there > is no reason why you couldn't ignore that suggestion, albeit risking > a clash with another applet? Well you'd repeat the process. > Is there a size limit for a tagged string? I think not. > For integer tag values, am I right in thinking that several integers > can be stored (under different index values) in a single tag Yes. >and if so what is the range of valid index values? I think its an extending vector. >h) p91 - are bookmark definitions visible in DDL files? No. > If not, is there any plan to add such support to DDL? No. >i) Is there a way to list the names of all the bookmarks in a particular > document? Yes. cf the book mark manager applet. >j) p109 - I can't understand the point being made for event 0x137 where > if current clip=6 and the total is changed to 3. It says that the > current then becomes no 2 but I don't see why that is... Because the current clipboard has to be a valid clipboard (so it is forced into range). >k) Are scripts interpreted or compiled or something inbetween? They are compiled to pseudo code, which is then interpreted. So they act like a compiled language, you can't get away with a syntax error which happens to be in code that is not executed. >l) Do script functions support recursive calls of themselves, and/or > one function calling another and that in turn calling the first one? Yes. >m) What's the maximum depth of function calls? Limited by memory... >n) Is there any way to tell if the overflow flag is set on a particular > frame? No. >o) Is there any way to test if the caret position in a frame is within the > printable area for the currently defined printer & paper? No. >p) When the caret is within a frame, I assume that there must be someway > in which OP knows that position, probably relative to the frame's > coordinates(?). Is there any way to get at the information so > that a script can calculate the vertical space between that point and > the end of the frame? No. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 23 01:45:08 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150857 for opro ; Wed, 23 May 101 01:45:05 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990566767:10:07955:81; Tue, 22 May 2001 21:26:07 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1007905; 22 May 2001 21:25 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4ML9d507666 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 22 May 2001 22:09:39 +0100 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk (mail4.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.211]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4ML9Y507661 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 22:09:34 +0100 Received: from modem-81.endostatin.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.92.209] helo=orchard-way) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 152JPR-0005Ww-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 22 May 2001 22:09:41 +0100 Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 22:09:52 +0100 From: Alan Adams To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: hard spaces (was Re: two separate questions...) Message-ID: <81dcd47e4a.Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> References: <4a7dc7410ajohnmc@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a7dc7410ajohnmc@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.10 (MsgServe/1.10) (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In message <4a7dc7410ajohnmc@argonet.co.uk> you wrote: > While I was casually looking through the document I found something odd on > page 78 of the file (page 66 of the document). Amongst the conversion > factors for non-SI time units to their equivalent SI quantity there is > listed the 'shake' equivalent to 10 ns. Does anyone know what branch of > science/technology uses the unit or has the document compiler sneaked in > his own little joke? > > John > According to Tom Clancy in, i believe, "Sum of all Fears" it is short for "a shake of a lamb's tail" and was used in the early days of nuclear physics, in particular nuclear weapons engineering. -- Alan Adams alan.adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk http://www.nckc.org.uk/ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 23 01:45:10 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150856 for opro ; Wed, 23 May 101 01:45:05 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990565720:20:25937:67; Tue, 22 May 2001 21:08:40 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2025867; 22 May 2001 21:08 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4ML7pE07632 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 22 May 2001 22:07:51 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4ML7m507629 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 22:07:48 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 152JNf-000Ath-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 22 May 2001 21:07:53 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 22:07:38 +0100 Subject: Re: Questions about scripts and applets... Message-ID: <4a7ed4a872Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <150826@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <150826@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Thanks so far to everyone who has replied to my questions. On 22 May, David Pilling wrote: > >f) When the caret is in a particular frame, does the concept "newpage" > > really mean "top of next frame"? > Hmm. OPro does support nextpage and nextframe concepts. The Misc: Insert: menu offers New Line and New Page, but there's no mention of a New Frame. If this is supported internally, how can I mark a position in a flow of text where I want a new frame rather than necessarily a new page? > > [for tagged data] what is the range of valid index values? > I think its an extending vector. Starting at 0 or 1? > > Is there a way to list the names of all the bookmarks in a particular > > document? > Yes. cf the book mark manager applet. That presumably relies on all calls which add bookmarks being front-ended by the applet so it has its own list of what they are? > >m) What's the maximum depth of function calls? > Limited by memory... To what extent? Does it depend on the wimpslot OP acquires, or usage of dynamic areas, or the amount of free real storage left? I suppose another way of asking this is has anyone ever met the limit? Perhaps I should say at this point that I'm aware that there's an element of cheek in some of this, suggesting how the internals of OP do work or might be made to work. It's not my intention to make DP angry! One of the problems for me is that I have a good idea of what the internals of a program like OP must be or might be like and I don't see why some values aren't already externally available to applets, or, that it would be all that difficult to make them accessible. For the various things that I asked to which the answer was "No": > >n) Is there any way to tell if the overflow flag is set on a particular > > frame? > >o) Is there any way to test if the caret position in a frame is within > > the printable area for the currently defined printer & paper? > >p) When the caret is within a frame, I assume that there must be > > someway in which OP knows that position, probably relative to the > > frame's coordinates(?). Is there any way to get at the > > information so that a script can calculate the vertical space > > between that point and the end of the frame? It seems to me that OP must know the answers to these questions at least at some point in its logic. How difficult would it be to add new functions to return these values? > >g) p75 - is tagged data visible in DDL files? > No. > >If not, is there any plan to add such support to DDL? > No. > >h) p91 - are bookmark definitions visible in DDL files? > No. > > If not, is there any plan to add such support to DDL? > No. I can't help feeling that DDL support for these things would be very useful (in that it would allow external creation or manipulation of values relevant to document structure or content). Incidentally, I understand(?) that the MakeRTF program essentially gets handed a DDL copy of the document and then modifies that, so I wouldn't be able to use the same approach to intercept a DDL save and modify it to my own "SuperDDL" (or whatever) would I, as by then the information I'd need isn't available to the filter program. If there's really no chance that DDL can be extended to cover tags & bms then that leaves only an option for me to write an applet that runs at the point where a document is about to be saved, that locates all the tagged & bm data and writes it somewhere; I suppose that'd be fairly easy to do, at least for tags created by my own applet(s) as I'd know what their name ranges were. Bms though are a problem (unless they are implemented as tags) because the only values I get to see are their names & handles; writing that out somewhere will not allow me to recreate them later because I wouldn't know where to position them. It would be more difficult to add support for all tags current in a document (ie including those created by other applets) because, again, there's no really easy way to determine what all the in-use tag names are. It can be fudged by writing a front-end to the tag functions and then hoping that everyone uses the front-end... Obviously I'd need a way to recreate the tag & bm data as soon as I'd loaded a DDL document. I can't see any difficulty there for tagged data, but - unless bookmarks are implemented as tags so their values are indirectly accessible - the list of bms can't be rebuilt. I don't (obviously) know enough about OP internals to know how a bm's position is actually represented internally; I suspect merely a pointer into the text data structures, and presumably the problem in terms of recreation is that these pointers are absolute and there's no easy way to describe them physically other than simply having DDL like: "here is some te" {bookmark name=myexamplebookmark} "xt with an embedded bookmark" TBH I can't see why this would be difficult to implement - neither creating such DDL nor interpreting it when a document is reloaded would all that hard. Same goes for tags, though they could be listed in one place eg after all the document text itself. I feel that trying to work around absence of these values in DDL is going to be a lot harder than it would be to implement them in DDL directly. -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 23 01:45:14 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150858 for opro ; Wed, 23 May 101 01:45:11 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990568413:10:04804:75; Tue, 22 May 2001 21:53:33 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1105919; 22 May 2001 21:52 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4MLpYv07894 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 22 May 2001 22:51:34 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4MLpU507891 for ; Tue, 22 May 2001 22:51:30 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 152K41-000BkC-0V for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 22 May 2001 22:51:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 22:51:56 +0100 Subject: Re: Questions about scripts and applets... Message-ID: <4a7ed8b683Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a7ed36ed8davidb@argonet.co.uk> References: <4a7ea9d57bJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4a7ed36ed8davidb@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 22 May, David Breakwell wrote: > In article <4a7ea9d57bJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, > Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > > g) p75 - is tagged data visible in DDL files? If not, is there any > > plan to add such support to DDL? > Its not visible - I did think about writing an applet to allow the > export of tags and bookmarks I've been contemplating that too; tagged data is easy to export and import, but with bookmarks the only info we can get at is bm name & handle so although you can write that out to a file, you can't read it back in and recreate the list of bookmarks. > and then provide a key into the document to actually locate the > bookmarks. Do you mean: embedding literal text in the document at the points where each bookmark is situated, specifying bookmark names? It's ugly innit, though I suppose it would work; on import you cpuld run through the document looking for those literals, reading them, removing them and inserting bms as required. If it comes to that you could do the same with tagged data at the very end of a document. > > i) Is there a way to list the names of all the bookmarks in a > > particular document? > Yes and many applets show you how to do this... I understand the ease with which one can keep track of things oneself, or as you suggest, by using !!!!!!!bm which adds the necessary bm tracking. But that won't work if any other applet just uses the native bm functions directly. > IdxPro makes extensive use of both tagged data and bookmarks - if you > can understand the code then this may help you understand some of these > features. I understand the features already it's the limitations of them (that have caused you & others to write the front-ends) that I've been trying to see my around. > > n) Is there any way to tell if the overflow flag is set on a I wonder what happens if you try to set a bookmark to the last character in a story when that character is not in a frame; doesn't look like you'd know as setbmtocaret is a void function. > > o) Is there any way to test if the caret position in a frame is within > > the printable area for the currently defined printer & paper? > > p) When the caret is within a frame, I assume that there must be > > someway in which OP knows that position, probably relative to the > > frame's coordinates(?). Is there any way to get at the > > information so that a script can calculate the vertical space > > between that point and the end of the frame? > No, basically Applets can insert text and read text but have no > information regarding text or caret location. ...which makes it difficult to automate some things because you simply don't know where on a page or in a frame you are, and whether any more text that gets added is going to be placed properly. I've considered adding some dummy text and vertical space and seeing if in the process the caret moves to the next page (as a way of determining if I should insert a NewPage) but that won't work if you need to distinguish between different frames on a single page. -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 23 14:19:23 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150892 for opro ; Wed, 23 May 101 14:19:20 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990621775:10:07449:80; Wed, 23 May 2001 12:42:55 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1106082; 23 May 2001 12:41 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4NCeSk09978 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 23 May 2001 13:40:28 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4NCeJ509968 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 13:40:23 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 152XvM-0001Ot-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 23 May 2001 12:39:36 +0000 Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 01:48:08 GMT Message-Id: <150859@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Questions about scripts and applets... X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R >The Misc: Insert: menu offers New Line and New Page, but there's no >mention of a New Frame. If this is supported internally, how can I mark >a position in a flow of text where I want a new frame rather than >necessarily a new page? The insert menu for newpage comes down to type("{newpage}"); so I guess you do type("{newframe}"); >> > [for tagged data] what is the range of valid index values? >Starting at 0 or 1? 0 (union (or is it structure) of C programmers rules). >> > Is there a way to list the names of all the bookmarks in a particular >> Yes. cf the book mark manager applet. >That presumably relies on all calls which add bookmarks being front-ended >by the applet so it has its own list of what they are? No. It uses the bmname() function to enumerate the book marks in a document. >> >m) What's the maximum depth of function calls? >> Limited by memory... OK, memory for the script language comes from OPro's main wimp slot. So it is limited to 32MB. >I suppose another way of asking this is has anyone ever met the limit? Probably someone writing a recursive program with a bug in it will have done so. >the problems for me is that I have a good idea of what the internals of a >program like OP must be or might be like and I don't see why some values >aren't already externally available to applets, or, that it would be all >that difficult to make them accessible. Oh I'd happily bore at world level on the insides of OPro. Only what I choose to make available can be made available. It takes some memory and code to make stuff available, but mostly the problem is implementing interfaces and defining them. If you were going to make all the insides available then you might as well do it at a binary level. Some applets of course are written in C and compiled, and link direct to OPro. Obviously that is another interface, and one which is not documented at all. >It seems to me that OP must know the answers to these questions at least >at some point in its logic. How difficult would it be to add new >functions to return these values? Not very, butyou need a well thought out interface. And you need some justification for expending the effort. What is missing in the current set up is a way for scripts to manipulate and understand frames. >I can't help feeling that DDL support for these things would be very >useful (in that it would allow external creation or manipulation of >values relevant to document structure or content). Yes, DDL missed quite a bit, and ideally would be extended further. >Incidentally, I understand(?) that the MakeRTF program essentially gets >handed a DDL copy of the document and then modifies that Correct. >so I wouldn't be able to use the same approach to intercept a DDL save and >modify it to my own "SuperDDL" (or whatever) would I, as by then the >information I'd need isn't available to the filter program. True. It would be neat to let applets add stuff to DDL. >& handles; writing that out somewhere will not allow me to recreate them >later because I wouldn't know where to position them. There's probably some horrible hack, along the lines of sticking escapes sequences in the text of your document e.g. ////BOOKMARK#1 >document (ie including those created by other applets) because, again, >there's no really easy way to determine what all the in-use tag names >are. True this time. >data, but - unless bookmarks are implemented as tags so their values are They are not. >I don't (obviously) know enough about OP internals to know how a bm's >position is actually represented internally; I suspect merely a pointer >into the text data structures Yes an offset. >recreation is that these pointers are absolute and there's no easy way to >describe them physically other than simply having DDL like: >"here is some te" >{bookmark name=myexamplebookmark} >"xt with an embedded bookmark" That would be the way. >TBH I can't see why this would be difficult to implement - neither >creating such DDL nor interpreting it when a document is reloaded would >all that hard. Same goes for tags, though they could be listed in one >place eg after all the document text itself. Like a lot of stuff it wouldn't be hard at all. The trouble is finding time, or more correctly justifying the expenditure of time. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 23 21:26:08 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150902 for opro ; Wed, 23 May 101 21:26:03 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990637782:10:25348:103; Wed, 23 May 2001 17:09:42 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1106049; 23 May 2001 17:09 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4NH80I10771 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 23 May 2001 18:08:00 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.88]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4NH7u510768 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 18:07:56 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 152c78-000GRP-0U for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 23 May 2001 18:08:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 16:57:48 +0100 Subject: Re: Questions about scripts and applets... Message-ID: <4a7f3c20a3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <150859@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <150859@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R On 23 May, David Pilling wrote: > so I guess you do type("{newframe}"); Ah! Nice and simple; I should have thought of that. > >That presumably relies on all calls which add bookmarks being > >front-ended by the applet so it has its own list of what they are? > No. It uses the bmname() function to enumerate the book marks in a > document. I'd misread the description of that function, assuming that the "int n" parameter was a handle value rather than an index. Mind you, it's a bit of a mixture returning the bm name through a c-b-ref parm and the handle as the numeric function result. > Oh I'd happily bore at world level on the insides of OPro. Only what I > choose to make available can be made available. It takes some memory > and code to make stuff available, but mostly the problem is > implementing interfaces and defining them. If you were going to make > all the insides available then you might as well do it at a binary > level. Some applets of course are written in C and compiled, and link > direct to OPro. Obviously that is another interface, and one which is > not documented at all. Hmm, interfaces. I'd not presume to suggest anything there. I'd noticed that some applets, eg the !Ovation1 support were compiled (assumed partly for speed, but also because it hides details of file and internal formats) and I'd also wondered how the input filters worked... > >It seems to me that OP must know the answers to these questions at > >least at some point in its logic. How difficult would it be to add > >new functions to return these values? > Not very, butyou need a well thought out interface. And you need > some justification for expending the effort. > What is missing in the current set up is a way for scripts to manipulate > and understand frames. > >I can't help feeling that DDL support for these things would be very > >useful (in that it would allow external creation or manipulation of > >values relevant to document structure or content). > Yes, DDL missed quite a bit, and ideally would be extended further. How do you decide what comes next in OP development? I assume that there's a list of oustanding bugs/features, and presumably a list of things that you or others think would be useful. Is there any way for users to know what the choices are and to influence what comes next? > There's probably some horrible hack, along the lines of sticking > escapes sequences in the text of your document e.g. ////BOOKMARK#1 Yes; Horribilhax'R'Us is the only way I can see to do this at the moment, and it has to be done that way because the document going into OP is being generated by something else. Also, David, thanks for the info about CDR printing. > David Pilling -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 23 21:26:12 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150903 for opro ; Wed, 23 May 101 21:26:09 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990645249:10:20462:81; Wed, 23 May 2001 19:14:09 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1020006; 23 May 2001 19:13 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4NJ6Fq11116 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 23 May 2001 20:06:15 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4NJ6B511113 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 20:06:11 +0100 Received: from [62.188.24.128] (helo=62.188.24.128) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 152dua-0008UU-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 23 May 2001 20:03:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: David Breakwell To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 19:57:12 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Questions about scripts and applets... Message-ID: <4a7f520b77davidb@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a7f3c20a3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> References: <150859@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a7f3c20a3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02b (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a7f3c20a3Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > On 23 May, David Pilling wrote: > Hmm, interfaces. I'd not presume to suggest anything there. I'd > noticed that some applets, eg the !Ovation1 support were compiled > (assumed partly for speed, but also because it hides details of file and > internal formats) and I'd also wondered how the input filters worked... These (reasonably) are straighforward - take a look at the existing filters to see how they work - basically they create a DDL from the source file - system variables make OP aware of what filters are available. > > What is missing in the current set up is a way for scripts to > > manipulate and understand frames. Just think how complex the applet would need to be to deal with all the various scenarios the OP core deals with....whilst it would be nice I suspect it what also be horrendous to manage - might be interesting though. > > >I can't help feeling that DDL support for these things would be very > > >useful (in that it would allow external creation or manipulation of > > >values relevant to document structure or content). Although OP itself makes no use of tags or bookmarks - only other applets use them. The format, naming conventions etc are not explicitly documented and anyone trying to make use of them would probably need to contact the applet author who generated the applet to understand how they are used... > > Yes, DDL missed quite a bit, and ideally would be extended further. > > There's probably some horrible hack, along the lines of sticking > > escapes sequences in the text of your document e.g. ////BOOKMARK#1 > Yes; Horribilhax'R'Us is the only way I can see to do this at the moment, > and it has to be done that way because the document going into OP is > being generated by soething else. Fools seldom differ.... But quite tricky to pull of in an import filter..... -- --. --. --. --. : : --- --- .---------------------------------------------. |_| |_| | _ | | | | |_ | |Internet provider for all Acorn RISC machines| | | |\ | | | | |\| | | '---------------------------------------------' | | | \ |_| |_| | | |__ | davidb@argonet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 23 22:49:36 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150906 for opro ; Wed, 23 May 101 22:49:34 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990649871:20:08407:65; Wed, 23 May 2001 20:31:11 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2007756; 23 May 2001 20:30 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4NKQKS11372 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 23 May 2001 21:26:20 +0100 Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow025o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.125]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4NG5c510606 for ; Wed, 23 May 2001 17:05:38 +0100 Received: from Bob ([62.30.39.172]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Wed, 23 May 2001 17:07:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "R.Hughes" To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 15:03:51 +0100 Subject: Re: OLE+TABLEMATE 2 V5.00c Message-ID: <4a7f31b216bob.hughes@blueyonder.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <150828@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <150828@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02a (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro I have just starting exporting files to word on anetwork as RTF and tables are done via Easywruter as docs. However OLEing embedded tables gives me draw files, not into tablemate. Is ther a way around this so they OLE into tablemate ? I am sure this was discussed but I cannot find it in DEJANEWS TIA -- Bob Hughes -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 24 13:22:44 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150918 for opro ; Thu, 24 May 101 13:22:43 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990665158:20:03511:65; Thu, 24 May 2001 00:45:58 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2105503; 24 May 2001 0:45 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4O0fbg12038 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 24 May 2001 01:41:37 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4O0fX512035 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 01:41:33 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 152jC8-0006Ck-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 24 May 2001 00:41:41 +0000 Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 23:26:21 GMT Message-Id: <150911@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Questions about scripts and applets... X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >How do you decide what comes next in OP development? I assume that >there's a list of oustanding bugs/features, and presumably a list of >things that you or others think would be useful. Is there any way for >users to know what the choices are and to influence what comes next? Just depends who shouts the loudest. Depends what I feel like. Also what gives the most useful functionality for the least effort. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 24 13:22:51 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150921 for opro ; Thu, 24 May 101 13:22:49 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990684717:10:25047:66; Thu, 24 May 2001 06:11:57 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1109536; 24 May 2001 6:10 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4O5fbl12763 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 24 May 2001 06:41:37 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4O5fY512760 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 06:41:34 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 152nsT-0004xF-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 24 May 2001 05:41:42 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 06:41:27 +0100 Subject: Re: Questions about scripts and applets... Message-ID: <4a7f8788fcJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <150911@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <150911@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 24 May, David Pilling wrote: > >How do you decide what comes next in OP development? I assume that > >there's a list of oustanding bugs/features, and presumably a list of > >things that you or others think would be useful. Is there any way for > >users to know what the choices are and to influence what comes next? > Just depends who shouts the loudest. Depends what I feel like. Also > what gives the most useful functionality for the least effort. Maybe I should acquire an e-megaphone... -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 24 13:22:54 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150922 for opro ; Thu, 24 May 101 13:22:52 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990694012:10:04187:69; Thu, 24 May 2001 08:46:52 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1125460; 24 May 2001 8:45 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4O8ipa13221 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 24 May 2001 09:44:51 +0100 Received: from mail12.svr.pol.co.uk (mail12.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.215]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4O8il513218 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 09:44:47 +0100 Received: from modem-220.fu-manchu-lion-fish.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.215.220] helo=freeserve.co.uk) by mail12.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 152qjl-0006DG-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 24 May 2001 09:44:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Robin A. Hampshire" To: Ovation Pro Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 09:45:35 +0100 Subject: Newpage and Newframe Message-ID: <4a7f98645frah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02d (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Reading Jeremy Nicoll's queries in "Questions about scripts and applets...." and the answers he has received there has got me rather confused. I have been playing with DDL files, for a couple of reasons. I am developing an export script for Chris Morison's Organizer Diary so as to print out diary data using an OPro file. I am also refining my system of business and personal correspondence, converting it all from !Style and trying to make it more efficient. I have always had a system whereby each correspondent has his own directory containing a "Head" file - a letter template which also contains the recipient's address, in the correct place for window envelopes. However, that means that if I change any of my own details in the letterhead, I have to change many dozens of individual templates. I am refining the system so that there is only one letterhead, and each correspondent now has his own DDL file containing address and reference details which can be dropped in. By using DDL instead of straight text I can include the POBar code in the details. So here is the source of my confusion.... If you have a multi-framed and linked OPro document, and move progressively from frame to frame with the key, or if you follow the Menu->Misc->Insert->Page (^P), that is equivalent to and you end up in the next frame, not on the next page. If you then export that file as DDL, each or ^P is exported as {newpage}. If a DDL file is dropped into OPro, then both {newpage} and {newframe} are equivalent and cause the caret to jump to the next frame. Neither {nextframe} nor {nextpage} work, and cause an error. So the question is, what do I embed in a DDL file to cause the caret to jump to the next page, ignoring any linked frames in between? Cheers, -- Robin Hampshire rah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 24 17:46:38 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150935 for opro ; Thu, 24 May 101 17:46:34 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990715086:10:19913:163; Thu, 24 May 2001 14:38:06 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1117756; 24 May 2001 14:37 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4OEZNp14203 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 24 May 2001 15:35:23 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4OEZJ514200 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 15:35:19 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 152wD0-00057t-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 24 May 2001 14:35:26 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:35:34 +0100 Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe Message-ID: <4a7fb86f63Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <150930@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <150930@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R On 24 May, David Pilling wrote: > >So the question is, what do I embed in a DDL file to cause the caret > >to jump to the next page, ignoring any linked frames in between? > Well newframe and newpage are the tokens. > Trying them they don't appear to do anything different to oneanother, > both force the next frame. Sorry about that. Undocumented features... So, to achieve nextpage one needs to run an applet that keep issuing either command until the current page number increments? And I suppose if you want to be able to achieve nextevenpage or nextoddpage then you'd need to check the "page number" value too? Another thing I was wondering about is page index values, eg from bmpage() or currentpage(). Are these relative values numbered from 0, or absolute in terms of the first page-number in the chapter? If all chapters are in one document with pages that are physically unlabelled at the start, small roman numerals in the front matter, arabic in the body.... and something else, perhaps in appendices and other back matter, then what sorts of page number index values do you actually see in different parts of the document? Is there anything that literally tells you that a particular page is the n'th in the whole document, regardless of how it is physically labelled? If you want consecutive physically printed page numbers across several chapters do you have to manually tell OP the start number of each chapter, or can it work that out for itself? Or, to achieve this might one use the OP chapter concept so that chap1 is title pages etc, chap2 is all the roman numbered front matter, chap3 is the entire body of the book containing various sections/chapters that are *not* chapters as far as OP is concerned, then chap4 is appendices, chap5 is index etc... In the OP manual you have section titles that are consecutively numbered within each chapter and this info also appears in the running headers of the rh pages. Was this done manually or is there an applet that supports this? Is it possible to set up master pages so that the header text is defined as a macro value, and then do something on each page that sets that page's own text for its header? I know there's a possible complication with intentionally blank pages between sections/chapters in a document too. I presume that {PageNumber} provides the physical label text rather than an index number. -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 24 17:46:39 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150936 for opro ; Thu, 24 May 101 17:46:37 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990712096:20:07155:66; Thu, 24 May 2001 13:48:16 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2111494; 24 May 2001 13:48 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4ODkiJ13990 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 24 May 2001 14:46:44 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4ODke513987 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 14:46:40 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 152vRw-000JW6-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 24 May 2001 13:46:48 +0000 Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:31:44 GMT Message-Id: <150930@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >So the question is, what do I embed in a DDL file to cause the caret >to jump to the next page, ignoring any linked frames in between? Well newframe and newpage are the tokens. Trying them they don't appear to do anything different to oneanother, both force the next frame. Sorry about that. Undocumented features... David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 24 23:22:27 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150957 for opro ; Thu, 24 May 101 23:22:25 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990738176:10:18532:70; Thu, 24 May 2001 21:02:56 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1126263; 24 May 2001 21:02 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4OL0sl15176 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 24 May 2001 22:00:54 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4OL0p515173 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 22:00:51 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 1532E4-000Mab-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 24 May 2001 21:00:56 +0000 Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:47:58 GMT Message-Id: <150939@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >So, to achieve nextpage one needs to run an applet that keep issuing >either command until the current page number increments? For now. Having thought about this, you should only use {newpage} until such a time as {newframe} is implemented. >Another thing I was wondering about is page index values, eg from >bmpage() or currentpage(). Are these relative values numbered from 0, >or absolute in terms of the first page-number in the chapter? I believe they are indexes, i.e. in range 0 to number of pages in chapter - 1 >Is there anything that literally tells you that a particular page is the >n'th in the whole document, regardless of how it is physically labelled? No but you could work it out. >If you want consecutive physically printed page numbers across several >chapters do you have to manually tell OP the start number of each >chapter, or can it work that out for itself? It works it out, leave the start number icon blank in the chapter dialogue box. >Or, to achieve this might one use the OP chapter concept so that chap1 is >title pages etc, chap2 is all the roman numbered front matter, chap3 is the >entire body of the book containing various sections/chapters that are *not* I don't see why you'd need to make things so complicated. >In the OP manual you have section titles that are consecutively numbered >within each chapter and this info also appears in the running headers of >the rh pages. Was this done manually or is there an applet that supports >this? There's certainly no applet involved. >Is it possible to set up master pages so that the header text is defined >as a macro value No. >I presume that {PageNumber} provides the physical label text rather than >an index number. Yes. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 24 23:22:29 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150958 for opro ; Thu, 24 May 101 23:22:27 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990741474:20:19142:66; Thu, 24 May 2001 21:57:54 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2018927; 24 May 2001 21:57 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4OLvMb15394 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 24 May 2001 22:57:22 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4OLvI515391 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 22:57:19 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 15336k-0000I2-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 24 May 2001 21:57:26 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 22:35:11 +0100 Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe Message-ID: <4a7fded9d8Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <150939@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <150939@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R On 24 May, David Pilling wrote: > >Or, to achieve this might one use the OP chapter concept so that chap1 > >is title pages etc, chap2 is all the roman numbered front matter, > >chap3 is the entire body of the book containing various > >sections/chapters that are *not* > I don't see why you'd need to make things so complicated. By complicated, do you mean: trying to achieve several numbered sequences one after another, which is quite common in academic books etc, or do you mean my idea that OP-chapters could be misused to achieve that? If the latter, can you say how one would achieve a series of no numbered pages, followed by i, ii ... xiv, followed by 1-203 etc? in a single document? -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 24 23:22:34 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150960 for opro ; Thu, 24 May 101 23:22:33 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990742145:10:29488:78; Thu, 24 May 2001 22:09:05 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1028810; 24 May 2001 22:08 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4OM7gK15505 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 24 May 2001 23:07:42 +0100 Received: from murphys-outbound.servers.plus.net ([212.159.14.225]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4OM7c515502 for ; Thu, 24 May 2001 23:07:38 +0100 Received: (qmail 2124 invoked from network); 24 May 2001 22:07:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tinshill.force9.net) (212.159.17.228) by murphys with SMTP; 24 May 2001 22:07:35 -0000 Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 23:06:53 +0100 (BST) From: Anthony Hilton Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe To: Ovation Pro List In-Reply-To: <150939@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In on Thu 24 May, David Pilling wrote: > > >So, to achieve nextpage one needs to run an applet that keep issuing > >either command until the current page number increments? > > For now. Having thought about this, you should only use {newpage} > until such a time as {newframe} is implemented. > The way it works sounds more (to me) like {newframe} is the one already implemented and {newpage} needs implementing to go to the top of the first frame on the next page regardless of other, empty, linked frames on the current page. Or am I missing something fundamental (not for the first time, nor probably the last)? Anthony Hilton -- ajh@tinshill.f9.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 25 01:34:48 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150984 for opro ; Fri, 25 May 101 01:34:46 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990749678:20:11902:36; Fri, 25 May 2001 00:14:38 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2102661; 25 May 2001 0:14 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4P0DoI15983 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 25 May 2001 01:13:50 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4P0Dk515979 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 01:13:46 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 1535En-0008yI-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 25 May 2001 00:13:54 +0000 Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 23:33:52 GMT Message-Id: <150967@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >The way it works sounds more (to me) like {newframe} is the one already >implemented and {newpage} needs implementing to go to the top of the first >frame on the next page regardless of other, empty, linked frames on the >current page. Or am I missing something fundamental (not for the first time, >nor probably the last)? If you save a document as DDL you'll notice the code is {newpage} although it only starts a new frame. So if I fix things and new page starts to function, all the existing documents will break. What I have to do is swop the codes around so that existing docs have {newframe} in them. I can get away with this as long as no one has used {newframe} David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 25 01:34:50 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150985 for opro ; Fri, 25 May 101 01:34:49 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990749679:20:11820:69; Fri, 25 May 2001 00:14:39 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab2011501; 25 May 2001 0:14 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4P0DmT15982 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 25 May 2001 01:13:48 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4P0Di515975 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 01:13:44 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 1535Em-0008yI-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 25 May 2001 00:13:52 +0000 Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 23:31:31 GMT Message-Id: <150965@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >If the latter, can you say how one would achieve a series of no numbered >pages, followed by i, ii ... xiv, followed by 1-203 etc? in a single >document? Yes, the latter. Well you'd have chapter 0 which would have a start number of 1 and roman format for the numbers. Then you'd have chapter 1 with a start number of 1 and an arabic number format. Then you'd have chapters 2..N with blank numbers and again arabic numbers. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 25 14:08:47 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150988 for opro ; Fri, 25 May 101 14:08:45 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990751231:20:25171:65; Fri, 25 May 2001 00:40:31 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2122939; 25 May 2001 0:40 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4P0cko16256 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 25 May 2001 01:38:46 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4P0cf516252 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 01:38:41 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 1535cv-0009R2-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 25 May 2001 00:38:49 +0000 Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 01:30:33 GMT Message-Id: <150982@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >On a different note, can I apologise to David that I am writing this from a >different address from the one to which I am subscr Yes I had to bounce it. But you'll notice my antique mail software truncates lines over 120 chars. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From russell.palmer@st-catherines.oxford.ac.uk Fri May 25 14:08:51 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150991 for opro ; Fri, 25 May 101 14:08:49 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990774598:10:19255:0; Fri, 25 May 2001 07:09:58 GMT Received: from oxmail4.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.33]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1125054; 25 May 2001 7:09 GMT Received: from heraldgate2.oucs.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.2.50] helo=frontend2.herald.ox.ac.uk ident=exim) by oxmail.ox.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 153BjR-0004i2-00 for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 25 May 2001 08:09:57 +0100 Received: from catz-7a7.stcatz.ox.ac.uk ([129.67.7.167] helo=catz-7a7) by frontend2.herald.ox.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 153BjR-0002bp-00 for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk; Fri, 25 May 2001 08:09:57 +0100 Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 08:08:31 From: Russell Palmer To: opro@pilling.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe Mailer: ArpieMail version 0.20 User-Agent: POPstar/2.02 Message-Id: >>On a different note, can I apologise to David that I am writing this from a >>different address from the one to which I am subscr > >Yes I had to bounce it. But you'll notice my antique mail software >truncates lines over 120 chars. Ah. I see. Does that mean that you didn't read what came after the word 'subscr'? The reason I am not posting from my subscr Cheers, Russ From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 25 14:08:52 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA150990 for opro ; Fri, 25 May 101 14:08:49 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990779893:20:18846:65; Fri, 25 May 2001 08:38:13 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2125123; 25 May 2001 8:37 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4P8a0Z17369 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 25 May 2001 09:36:00 +0100 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.177]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4P8Zo517366 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 09:35:55 +0100 Received: from modem-211.maryland.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.71.211] helo=freeserve.co.uk) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 153D4b-0003Tt-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 25 May 2001 09:35:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Robin A. Hampshire" To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:03:28 +0100 Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe Message-ID: <4a80185f63rah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <150967@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <150967@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02d (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <150967@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling wrote: > So if I fix things and new page starts to function, all the > existing documents will break. What I have to do is swop the codes > around so that existing docs have {newframe} in them. > I can get away with this as long as no one has used {newframe} Once that's been implemented, it going to confuse people who fiddle about inside the DDL file and hand edit it. Furthermore any OPro-originated DDL files dropped into other apps able to import them will cause problems. How about an applet or similar, which looks at the DDL files being imported; if originating from OPro in the first place (easy to read from first few lines), and if datestamped before a certain cutoff date, it could swap newframes and newpages around, then restamp the file? Just a thought. -- Robin Hampshire rah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 25 14:40:37 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151002 for opro ; Fri, 25 May 101 14:40:35 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990797689:10:17381:74; Fri, 25 May 2001 13:34:49 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1017125; 25 May 2001 13:34 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4PDX4U18083 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 25 May 2001 14:33:04 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4PDX1518080 for ; Fri, 25 May 2001 14:33:01 +0100 Received: from narrator.demon.co.uk ([158.152.60.112]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 153HiH-0007Zd-0V for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 25 May 2001 14:33:09 +0100 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by narrator.demon.co.uk with SMTP; Fri, 25 May 2001 10:12:35 GMT Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 11:12:27 +0100 From: Neill McNeill To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re:Alternating caret Message-ID: <532e24804a%neill@narrator.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <150930@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: Home/Sensible Software X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60m Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hi, Is it possible to get the caret to alternate between two frames by pressing or another key? -- | Neill McNeill | Streatham Common|LONDON SW16| |Acorn StrongArm Risc PC OS 3.7|48Mb| |Email:neill@narrator.demon.co.uk| |Visit:http://www.narrator.demon.co.uk| -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 26 13:14:52 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151028 for opro ; Sat, 26 May 101 13:14:47 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990877686:20:18199:65; Sat, 26 May 2001 11:48:06 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2017952; 26 May 2001 11:47 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4QBiOS20774 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 26 May 2001 12:44:24 +0100 Received: from thick.mail.pipex.net (thick.mail.pipex.net [158.43.192.95]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4QBiK520771 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 12:44:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 20552 invoked from network); 26 May 2001 11:44:02 -0000 Received: from userif02.uk.uudial.com (HELO loopback) (62.188.213.7) by smtp-3.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 26 May 2001 11:44:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 08:17:58 +0100 Subject: Credit Card Payment Message-ID: <4a80980ae4dfs@ukgateway.net> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.04-pre1 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Hello All, I have a vague memory of folks wanting to pay for Ov Pro upgrades with a credit card... IIRC. Mr P had some arrangement with a company that handles CC transactions for small business organisations, charging a small fee for the service. If my vague memory is correct, can some kind soul remind me of the details, as such a service would be useful for SWMBO who has an increasing number of folks wanting to settle with a CC payment. Thanks cheers Dave S -- _______________________________________________________________________ Dave Symes... dfs@ukgateway.net Also... df@dafs.freeserve.co.uk .. or... dave@triffid.co.uk http://www.dfs.ukgateway.net -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 26 14:18:16 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151034 for opro ; Sat, 26 May 101 14:18:13 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990879141:10:00884:66; Sat, 26 May 2001 12:12:21 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1000691; 26 May 2001 12:11 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4QCBNM20909 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 26 May 2001 13:11:23 +0100 Received: from smtp2.pandora.be (tartarus.telenet-ops.be [195.130.132.34]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4QCBK520906 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 13:11:20 +0100 Received: (qmail 26234 invoked from network); 26 May 2001 12:11:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO riscpc.be) ([213.118.61.23]) (envelope-sender ) by tartarus.telenet-ops.be (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 26 May 2001 12:11:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jan De Poorter To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 14:11:22 +0200 Subject: Re: Credit Card Payment Message-ID: <4a80b2e75ejdp@pandora.be> In-Reply-To: <4a80980ae4dfs@ukgateway.net> References: <4a80980ae4dfs@ukgateway.net> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.03) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a80980ae4dfs@ukgateway.net>, Dave Symes wrote: > Hello All, I have a vague memory of folks wanting to pay for Ov Pro > upgrades with a credit card... > IIRC. Mr P had some arrangement with a company that handles CC > transactions for small business organisations, charging a small fee > for the service. > If my vague memory is correct, can some kind soul remind me of the > details, as such a service would be useful for SWMBO who has an > increasing number of folks wanting to settle with a CC payment. http://www.uksharereg.com ? -- Jan De Poorter Gent - Belgium mailto:jdp@pandora.be -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 26 14:18:19 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151035 for opro ; Sat, 26 May 101 14:18:17 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990882340:10:15080:65; Sat, 26 May 2001 13:05:40 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1014370; 26 May 2001 13:04 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4QD42621124 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 26 May 2001 14:04:02 +0100 Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow025o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.125]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4QD3w521121 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 14:03:58 +0100 Received: from agse00.blueyonder.co.uk ([213.48.72.51]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sat, 26 May 2001 14:06:10 +0100 Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 14:07:30 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Gibson Subject: Re: Credit Card Payment To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <4a80980ae4dfs@ukgateway.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Liquid Silicon X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Sat 26 May, Dave Symes wrote: > Hello All, > I have a vague memory of folks wanting to pay for Ov Pro upgrades with a > credit card... > > IIRC. Mr P had some arrangement with a company that handles CC > transactions for small business organisations, charging a small fee for > the service. That would be me - I'm basically processing the cards on behalf of David - he still sends you the goods while I send you the receipt. The OPro upgrade costs UKP40 or if you are outside the EC it's UKP34. HTH, Alan -- POSum distribution - New standards in EPoS systems http://www.imagesoft.co.uk MelIDI distribution - Superlative MIDI sequencing - http://www.melidi.co.uk RISC OS dealers and developers - Tel +44 1592 592265 - Fax +44 1592 596102 Liquid Silicon - sales@liquid-silicon.com - http://www.liquid-silicon.com -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 26 16:44:30 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151036 for opro ; Sat, 26 May 101 16:44:28 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990883002:10:23912:97; Sat, 26 May 2001 13:16:42 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1112953; 26 May 2001 13:16 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4QDFg021187 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 26 May 2001 14:15:42 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4QDFc521184 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 14:15:38 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 153dv0-0008DC-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 26 May 2001 13:15:46 +0000 Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 13:21:57 GMT Message-Id: <151031@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Credit Card Payment X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Credit cards... I've managed through the good offices of Alan Gibson at Liquid Silicon. I guess thats not practical for you. I've not found a cc service I am really happy with. There are lots now though, many more than two years back when I seriously looked. The one I'd look at first is worldpay.com (two of the things which make me unhappy are the costs, and handing over customer details to dodgy looking companies far away. Things are a lot easier if you can do 'card holder present' payments) David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:08:10 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151042 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:08:06 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990901221:20:05371:67; Sat, 26 May 2001 18:20:21 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2105558; 26 May 2001 18:20 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4QIJ8q22016 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 26 May 2001 19:19:08 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4QIJ3522012 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 19:19:04 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 153iec-0000gb-0W for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 26 May 2001 19:19:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 18:47:20 +0100 Subject: An extension to master pages? Message-ID: <4a80d1a9f1Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro I'd like to see support for variable text being automatically placed in certain parts of master pages, eg headers and footers. At the moment it is possible to request page number in such a place by using the "#" character to represent its placement. It would be very much more useful if we could define text in these locations using macros, so that instead of "#" we could explicitly place "{PageNumber}" which is perhaps what "#" is implemented as anyway, but far more to the point, we could place any other macro names in the same place. One problem here is that I don't know when the text in headers and footers etc is actually placed there at present. If OP says to itself, ok we need a new lefthand page, so get the lefthand master, make a copy of it, update with eg page number if user placed # anywhere, then hand the new page over to the application for the user content, it would be difficult to influence contents of macro variables based on text that at this stage hasn't yet been placed on that page. OTOH if OP represents a normal page only by the master frame and doesn't actually store the fixed portions of the page repeatedly then one would assume that a printed page is put together later on from all the composite parts of that page. Perhaps a way to allow this sort of thing is to have master page headers/footers use a flag character - a bit like # - to mean there will be a need for some text here which must at some stage be defined, but not now. At final page-build time whenever that is, the system could resolve the extra text by looking at some internal variable whose name incorporates the page index number. Thus, say, on the master page we define a need for two pieces of text, which will be named chaptheading and sectionheading (or cat and dog or whatever - these names are up to the user). The master-page edit display would only show the basic names, subjected to whatever effects the user wants. At the point where the page layout is being built finally, OP replaces the placeholder texts with the contents of macro variables whose names are made up from the placeholder variable names and the current page's page index number. Thus on the 51st page (index no = 50) OP would actually insert the textual contents of {chaptheading50} and {sectionheading50}. It would be up to the user to make sure that these macros were defined as required. Or, perhaps the header text on the master page could have been defined simply as {userheader} and OP could then expect the user to have defined {userheader} either as a piece of variable text, or essentially as macv but need userheader to be a script function that gets called to determine what the required text actually is. The script could then look at OP variables (like page number) and other things (like page content) and determine the required text. -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:08:15 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151044 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:08:12 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990901231:20:05926:65; Sat, 26 May 2001 18:20:31 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2005171; 26 May 2001 18:20 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4QIJ4b22013 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 26 May 2001 19:19:04 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4QIJ0522008 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 19:19:00 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 153ieZ-0000gb-0W for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 26 May 2001 19:19:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 18:22:37 +0100 Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe Message-ID: <4a80cf6662Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a80185f63rah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk> References: <150967@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a80185f63rah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 25 May, Robin A. Hampshire wrote: > In article <150967@pilling.demon.co.uk>, David Pilling > wrote: > > So if I fix things and new page starts to function, all the > > existing documents will break. What I have to do is swop the codes > > around so that existing docs have {newframe} in them. > > I can get away with this as long as no one has used {newframe} > Once that's been implemented, it going to confuse people who fiddle > about inside the DDL file and hand edit it. Furthermore any > OPro-originated DDL files dropped into other apps able to import them > will cause problems. > How about an applet or similar, which looks at the DDL files being > imported; if originating from OPro in the first place (easy to read > from first few lines), and if datestamped before a certain cutoff > date, it could swap newframes and newpages around, then restamp the > file? I think a better approach is to leave the existing {newpage} and {newframe} completely alone and document the fact that they are not working as designed, but are being left alone for full backwards compatibility. Then a new set of DDL tags can be created, called eg: {advancetonextframe} {advancetonextcolumn} <-- that's maybe a frill... {advancetonextpage} {advancetonextleftpage} {advancetonextrightpage} Whereas {advancetonextpage} should do what {newpage} does now, the {advancetonextleftpage} and {advancetonextrightpage} need to incorporate the logic that conditionally inserts a blank page; personally I think this should actually be visible in the working document rather than something that only arrives when you print the document. I also think that there should be something, perhaps part of the master pages definition(s) per chapter, that defines what will happen on such an inserted page in terms of content; as to implementation it could be done either by defining the master page definition for the inserted page(s) (probably the best way) or more simply by assuming that the implied single/left/right page master-page will be used and allowing some way of overriding aspects of it. For example, although most pages of a chapter might have running headers & footers it is unlikely that a following spacer page would need the same headers & footers. -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:08:16 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151045 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:08:13 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990905602:10:29104:70; Sat, 26 May 2001 19:33:22 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1111669; 26 May 2001 19:32 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4QJW6122377 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 26 May 2001 20:32:06 +0100 Received: from snowstorm.mail.pipex.net (snowstorm.mail.pipex.net [158.43.192.97]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4QJW2522371 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 20:32:02 +0100 Received: (qmail 17056 invoked from network); 26 May 2001 19:32:09 -0000 Received: from userkg04.uk.uudial.com (HELO loopback) (62.188.209.176) by smtp-6.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 26 May 2001 19:32:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 19:30:45 +0100 Subject: Re: Credit Card Payment Message-ID: <4a80d5a379dfs@ukgateway.net> In-Reply-To: <4a80980ae4dfs@ukgateway.net> References: <4a80980ae4dfs@ukgateway.net> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.04-pre1 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Thanks to those kind persons who replied. Cheers Dave S -- _______________________________________________________________________ Dave Symes... dfs@ukgateway.net Also... df@dafs.freeserve.co.uk .. or... dave@triffid.co.uk http://www.dfs.ukgateway.net -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:08:20 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151047 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:08:17 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990906068:10:05556:73; Sat, 26 May 2001 19:41:08 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1005312; 26 May 2001 19:40 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4QJWBf22379 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 26 May 2001 20:32:11 +0100 Received: from snowstorm.mail.pipex.net (snowstorm.mail.pipex.net [158.43.192.97]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4QJW5522375 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 20:32:05 +0100 Received: (qmail 17060 invoked from network); 26 May 2001 19:32:12 -0000 Received: from userkg04.uk.uudial.com (HELO loopback) (62.188.209.176) by smtp-6.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 26 May 2001 19:32:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Symes To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 19:34:41 +0100 Subject: Re: Credit Card Payment Message-ID: <4a80d5ff58dfs@ukgateway.net> In-Reply-To: References: <4a80980ae4dfs@ukgateway.net> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.04-pre1 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article , Alan Gibson wrote: > On Sat 26 May, Dave Symes wrote: > > Hello All, > > I have a vague memory of folks wanting to pay for Ov Pro upgrades with a > > credit card... > > > > IIRC. Mr P had some arrangement with a company that handles CC > > transactions for small business organisations, charging a small fee for > > the service. > That would be me - I'm basically processing the cards on behalf of David > - he still sends you the goods while I send you the receipt. > The OPro upgrade costs UKP40 or if you are outside the EC it's UKP34. > HTH, > Alan Thanks for the info Alan, Fortunately I don't need an Ov Pro upgrade at the moment as I'm on v2.63. It was a general enquiry on behalf of SWILAA who needs to be able to accept CC payments. Cheers Dave S -- _______________________________________________________________________ Dave Symes... dfs@ukgateway.net Also... df@dafs.freeserve.co.uk .. or... dave@triffid.co.uk http://www.dfs.ukgateway.net -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:08:29 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151051 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:08:25 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990913428:10:13397:67; Sat, 26 May 2001 21:43:48 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1123929; 26 May 2001 21:42 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4QLeIE22827 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 26 May 2001 22:40:18 +0100 Received: from pandora.chariot.net.au (mail.chariot.net.au [203.30.236.84]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4QLeB522824 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 22:40:12 +0100 Received: from localhost.com (ppp-051.cust210-9-27.ghr.chariot.net.au [210.9.27.51]) by pandora.chariot.net.au (8.11.1/8.10.0) with SMTP id f4QLeFs06919 for ; Sun, 27 May 2001 07:10:16 +0930 Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 15:55:43 +0830 From: Peter Prewett To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: More on dictionaries Message-ID: User-Agent: Messenger-Pro/2.50 (MsgServe/1.50) (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In sorting out the problem with dictionaries I came up with another problem:-(( As suggested I merged dictionaries and placed !Words into !Boot.Resources and deleted !Words from the Ovation directory. This then created a problem with the spell check in Messenger Pro that when doing a spell check it looks at the Hyphenation directory not the MainDict. To overcome that I have had to reinstall !Words into the Ovation dir and have it contain only the Hyphenation dir. Peter -- Peter Prewett, Coromandel Valley, South Australia -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:08:33 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151052 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:08:30 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990959348:20:28587:65; Sun, 27 May 2001 10:29:08 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2028326; 27 May 2001 10:28 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4RARoi24501 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 27 May 2001 11:27:50 +0100 Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.173]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4RARk524498 for ; Sun, 27 May 2001 11:27:46 +0100 Received: from modem-113.paddle-wrasse.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.45.113] helo=freeserve.co.uk) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 153xm5-0001qg-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sun, 27 May 2001 11:27:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Robin A. Hampshire" To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 10:51:13 +0100 Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe Message-ID: <4a8129e8bbrah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a80cf6662Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> References: <150967@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a80185f63rah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk> <4a80cf6662Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02d (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a80cf6662Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > Then a new set of DDL tags can be created, called eg: > > {advancetonextframe} > {advancetonextcolumn} <-- that's maybe a frill... > {advancetonextpage} > {advancetonextleftpage} > {advancetonextrightpage} If OPro is the only app which makes use of DDL files - ie if DDL isn't a more widely used standard, then anything goes. Otherwise, altering that standard for our own purposes is a bit under the arm, isn't it? -- Robin Hampshire rah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:08:47 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151058 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:08:46 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990963261:10:03202:67; Sun, 27 May 2001 11:34:21 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1127507; 27 May 2001 11:33 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4RBXBI24738 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 27 May 2001 12:33:11 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4RBX7524735 for ; Sun, 27 May 2001 12:33:07 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 153ynL-000JUs-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sun, 27 May 2001 11:33:16 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 12:31:56 +0100 Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe Message-ID: <4a81332136Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a8129e8bbrah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk> References: <150967@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a80185f63rah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk> <4a80cf6662Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4a8129e8bbr User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 27 May, Robin A. Hampshire wrote: > In article <4a80cf6662Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, > Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > Otherwise, altering that standard for our own purposes is a bit under > the arm, isn't it? DDL isn't a "standard" and it isn't even informally documented anywhere (acccording to DP) when I've asked him for doc on it. This means it could be extended any time. -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:08:56 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151062 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:08:53 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990989499:10:27712:69; Sun, 27 May 2001 18:51:39 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1027768; 27 May 2001 18:51 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4RIltV25821 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 27 May 2001 19:47:55 +0100 Received: from mail11.svr.pol.co.uk (mail11.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.23]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4RIlo525817 for ; Sun, 27 May 2001 19:47:50 +0100 Received: from modem-101.connecticut.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.58.101] helo=beeston12) by mail11.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 1545a2-0000rm-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sun, 27 May 2001 19:47:58 +0100 Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 18:16:54 +0100 From: Robin Phillips To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Printing query and minor error in manual Message-ID: <9cb652814a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> X-Organization: home X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Editor: Zap, using ZapEmail 0.22 (27 Nov 1998) patch-3 X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.64b User-Agent: POPstar/2.03 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Dear colleagues, I have been trying to solve a printing problem, and report: Chapter 12 (p.170) of the Manual (supplied on CD with version 2.60) right hand column, 4th paragraph, reads "If your document has more than one chapter and the page numbering is not contiguous ..." For "contiguous" read "continuous". In the left column of the same page, final para, for "incorrectly order" read either "incorrectly ordered" OR "not in correct order", Further down this right column of the same page we are shown a variety of expressions for entering into the print dialogue window the selection of pages we want to be printed. However I can see there no way of selecting 1 pair of pages from a pamphlet. Is this possible? I have an 8 page pamphlet in OvationPro at present, and after printing it all (first FRONT then BACK) I realised I had a tiny error on p.7. Therefore I wanted to print that sheet (p.2 on left, p.7 on right, reverse is blank) again (after correcting the error). I could not get my set-up to produce this by entering 2 + 7 in the window. Is there any permitted way to do this? I entered the numeral 7, and successfully produced a sheet from my printer with p.7 on the right, and the left half blank (the FRONT button was selected too.) I fed the sheet in again, entered 2 in the page window, and clicked PRINT. The sheet was not fed through, but SOME signal was sent to the printer, because the feed mechanism whirred in vain. I tried again, same result. The next time I selected the BACK button, and p.2 was printed in the left half of the sheet successfully. What is the reason for this performance? And is there any way to select one specific double-page of a pamphlet for printing? On the top left of p.170 I noticed the heading Printers Pairs, but as it talks of A4 output I assume it is not relevant to my problem. However, i do think the meaning of Printers Pairs might be clearer if we had an example displayed. I have also checked the 2 files on the CD called Print-Aid and CDGuide, but I believe nothing relevant to this problem is to be found there. I have just now checked the Index too. If I were still printing with lead type I would ask for advice on "Imposition" but this word is not listed in your Index. I shall be interested in the answers. Thanks in advance, Robin. -- Robin Phillips, 1, Newcastle Avenue, Beeston, Notts., NG9 1BT; Phone: +44 (0)115 922 4930 E-mail: rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:08:59 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151064 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:08:58 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990999518:10:23867:65; Sun, 27 May 2001 21:38:38 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1023809; 27 May 2001 21:38 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4RLbSu26415 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 27 May 2001 22:37:28 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4RLbP526412 for ; Sun, 27 May 2001 22:37:25 +0100 Received: from [62.188.22.169] (helo=62.188.22.169) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 1548Ay-0002LN-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sun, 27 May 2001 22:34:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: David Breakwell To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 22:23:30 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe Message-ID: <4a816ec853davidb@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a80cf6662Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> References: <150967@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a80185f63rah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk> <4a80cf6662Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02b (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a80cf6662Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > {advancetonextframe} > {advancetonextcolumn} <-- that's maybe a frill... > {advancetonextpage} > {advancetonextleftpage} > {advancetonextrightpage} Hi Jeremy I maybe missing something but I really don't understand why this type of control in DDL would be useful. If a program is generating DDL (which isn't difficult to do) then it must already have an understanding of the page structure and can therefore force text about the page as it sees fit. The whole point of DDL is that it is a textual description of the OP page - adding such controls to DDL could make editing a document quite a challenge as pages are inserted and deleted as text and frames are added and deleted. I would be interested to understand what you are trying to achieve - at first I thought it was some sort of document import/export but you last chain of messages has left me confused. Regards David Breakwell -- --. --. --. --. : : --- --- .---------------------------------------------. |_| |_| | _ | | | | |_ | |Internet provider for all Acorn RISC machines| | | |\ | | | | |\| | | '---------------------------------------------' | | | \ |_| |_| | | |__ | davidb@argonet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:09:02 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151066 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:09:00 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990999573:10:24247:68; Sun, 27 May 2001 21:39:33 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1115910; 27 May 2001 21:39 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4RLbX526421 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 27 May 2001 22:37:33 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4RLbT526417 for ; Sun, 27 May 2001 22:37:29 +0100 Received: from [62.188.22.169] (helo=62.188.22.169) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 1548B2-0002LN-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sun, 27 May 2001 22:34:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: David Breakwell To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 22:30:26 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: An extension to master pages? Message-ID: <4a816f6b1ddavidb@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a80d1a9f1Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> References: <4a80d1a9f1Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02b (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a80d1a9f1Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: Hi > I'd like to see support for variable text being automatically placed in > certain parts of master pages, eg headers and footers. At the moment it > is possible to request page number in such a place by using the "#" > character to represent its placement. I started an applet to do this but as I had no need for it I never completed it. I originally had an outline spec that would enable the placement of bookmarks within the document that could: (a) Be expanded to text when the document was opened (ie a create date in a master document) (b) Run a routine on document open (c) Replace or run a routine on document print This is achievable using applets > Perhaps a way to allow this sort of thing is to have master page > headers/footers use a flag character - a bit like # - to mean there will > be a need for some text here which must at some stage be defined, but not > now. At final page-build time whenever that is, the system could resolve > the extra text by looking at some internal variable whose name > incorporates the page index number. > Thus on the 51st page (index no = 50) OP would actually insert the > textual contents of {chaptheading50} and {sectionheading50}. It would be > up to the user to make sure that these macros were defined as required. This would be possible in a similar manner but would be quite a data maintenance task...! Regards David Breakwell -- --. --. --. --. : : --- --- .---------------------------------------------. |_| |_| | _ | | | | |_ | |Internet provider for all Acorn RISC machines| | | |\ | | | | |\| | | '---------------------------------------------' | | | \ |_| |_| | | |__ | davidb@argonet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:09:08 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151069 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:09:07 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 990989411:20:21126:67; Sun, 27 May 2001 18:50:11 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab2125674; 27 May 2001 18:49 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4RIlsi25820 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 27 May 2001 19:47:54 +0100 Received: from mail11.svr.pol.co.uk (mail11.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.23]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4RIlm525813 for ; Sun, 27 May 2001 19:47:49 +0100 Received: from modem-101.connecticut.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.58.101] helo=beeston12) by mail11.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 1545a0-0000rm-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sun, 27 May 2001 19:47:57 +0100 Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 18:21:26 +0100 From: Robin Phillips To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Ov Pro Manual chapter 7 errors Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <150828@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-Organization: home X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.64b User-Agent: POPstar/2.03 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Dear David, In message <150828@pilling.demon.co.uk> you wrote: > > I guess I'll add a comment refering to the spell check chapter to the > section on view options. That sounds a perfectly adequate way of coping. I must look at the Spelling section. Best wishes, Robin. -- Robin Phillips, 1, Newcastle Avenue, Beeston, Notts., NG9 1BT; Phone: +44 (0)115 922 4930 E-mail: rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:09:36 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151083 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:09:34 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991007014:20:02736:69; Sun, 27 May 2001 23:43:34 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2127891; 27 May 2001 23:42 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4RNfYM26950 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 28 May 2001 00:41:34 +0100 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk (mail1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.18]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4RNfU526947 for ; Mon, 28 May 2001 00:41:30 +0100 Received: from modem-228.maryland.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.71.228] helo=freeserve.co.uk) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 154AAC-0000go-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 28 May 2001 00:41:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Robin A. Hampshire" To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 23:09:38 +0100 Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe Message-ID: <4a816d835erah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a81332136Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> References: <150967@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a80185f63rah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk> <4a80cf6662Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4a8129e8bbr User-Agent: Pluto/2.02d (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a81332136Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > DDL isn't a "standard" and it isn't even informally documented > anywhere (acccording to DP) when I've asked him for doc on it. > This means it could be extended any time. Fairy Nuff. -- Robin Hampshire rah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:09:36 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151082 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:09:34 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991052121:10:28575:103; Mon, 28 May 2001 12:15:21 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1103144; 28 May 2001 12:14 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4SCCgU28878 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 28 May 2001 13:12:42 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4SCCb528872 for ; Mon, 28 May 2001 13:12:37 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 154Lt5-0008fZ-0V for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 28 May 2001 13:12:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 11:46:26 +0100 Subject: Re: An extension to master pages? Message-ID: <4a81b2ccf5Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a816f6b1ddavidb@argonet.co.uk> References: <4a80d1a9f1Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4a816f6b1ddavidb@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 27 May, David Breakwell wrote: > In article <4a80d1a9f1Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, > Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > Hi > > I'd like to see support for variable text being automatically placed > > in certain parts of master pages, eg headers and footers. At the > > moment it is possible to request page number in such a place by using > > the "#" character to represent its placement. > I started an applet to do this but as I had no need for it I never > completed it. I originally had an outline spec that would enable the > placement of bookmarks within the document that could: > (a) Be expanded to text when the document was opened (ie a create date > in a master document) (b) Run a routine on document open (c) Replace > or run a routine on document print > This is achievable using applets I assumed so, either using an event just before each page is sent to the printer to modify the text in headers/footers etc, or running an applet just before printing a document. I think you'd probably want to do this on a copy of the original doc to leave the markers (I don't mean bookmarks) in position and replace those with text, print the result and then quit the file so that the markers were not permanently replaced with (what could be) temporary text. I was uncertain though whether an applet could look at a page and isolate the stuff in the header/footer (or whatever) frames - I suppose makelocal() might be part of that ... but how would you select the header/footer object in the first place for that to work? Is it possible to put a bookmark in a master frame? And if it is, can you search for each instance of it on successive pages? Alternatively if you use a certain style in a header/footer can you find that text without making it local first? > > Thus on the 51st page (index no = 50) OP would actually insert the > > textual contents of {chaptheading50} and {sectionheading50}. It > > would be up to the user to make sure that these macros were defined > > as required. > This would be possible in a similar manner but would be quite a data > maintenance task...! Why? It'd only be useful in the first place if you wanted to use it for something like the OP manual where section & chapter heading texts appear in headers all the way through the document. I'd not envisage building the macro texts by hand - though if it were done by hand I'd imagine you'd do it by editing DDL and then reading it (or executing it via the ddl() function). -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:09:53 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151091 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:09:52 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991039416:20:25828:70; Mon, 28 May 2001 08:43:36 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2112043; 28 May 2001 8:43 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4S8g2a28265 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 28 May 2001 09:42:02 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4S8fx528262 for ; Mon, 28 May 2001 09:41:59 +0100 Received: from [62.188.139.166] (helo=RiscPC) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 154IY5-0004nZ-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 28 May 2001 09:38:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Steven Pampling To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 14:26:55 +0100 Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe Message-ID: <4a813da83fsteve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a8129e8bbrah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk> References: <150967@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a80185f63rah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk> <4a80cf6662Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4a8129e8bbr User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a8129e8bbrah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk>, Robin A. Hampshire wrote: > If OPro is the only app which makes use of DDL files - ie if DDL > isn't a more widely used standard, then anything goes. Er, last I knew you were writing an export script for Organizer so I thought you would understand this one. If people start mucking around with existing commands all sorts of things could break. Fortunately I haven't used the {newframe} {newpage} stuff in my scripts at all - although I did think about it... -- Steve Pampling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:09:58 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151093 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:09:55 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991052105:20:08046:65; Mon, 28 May 2001 12:15:05 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2103125; 28 May 2001 12:14 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4SCCj528880 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 28 May 2001 13:12:45 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4SCCe528876 for ; Mon, 28 May 2001 13:12:41 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 154Lt9-0008fZ-0V for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 28 May 2001 13:12:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 12:17:58 +0100 Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe Message-ID: <4a81b5b014Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a816ec853davidb@argonet.co.uk> References: <150967@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a80185f63rah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk> <4a80cf6662Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4a816ec853d User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 27 May, David Breakwell wrote: > In article <4a80cf6662Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, > Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > > {advancetonextframe} > > {advancetonextcolumn} <-- that's maybe a frill... > > {advancetonextpage} > > {advancetonextleftpage} > > {advancetonextrightpage} > Hi Jeremy > I maybe missing something but I really don't understand why this type > of control in DDL would be useful. If a program is generating DDL > (which isn't difficult to do) then it must already have an > understanding of the page structure and can therefore force text about > the page as it sees fit. The whole point of DDL is that it is a textual > description of the OP page - adding such controls to DDL could make > editing a document quite a challenge as pages are inserted and deleted > as text and frames are added and deleted. > I would be interested to understand what you are trying to achieve - at > first I thought it was some sort of document import/export but you last > chain of messages has left me confused. This was a reply to the question originally about newpage & newframe usage, where I wanted to make sure that the two did different things. We found that they don't & DP suggested fixing them "in reverse" so that newpage actually implement the newframe concept (which is what happens now) and newframe implements the missing newpage function. This would keep existing DDL happy, which reversing those functions so the function implemented matched the DDL tag would not. I suggested that the existing newpage & newframe functions, althoug wrong, be left as they are because that upsets no previous users. That then requires new DDL tags to implement things that work as described (for clarity). On the face of it we only actually need a new tag for newpage, since nobody can easily achieve that now. However it would be better to go one stage further and implement the new newpage function which I suggested could be called 'advancetonextpage'. This would work in a single-sided document, but might still not be very useful in double sided work, so I also suggested explicit advancetonext left/right pages ie functions that might insert a blank but page-numbered page as well. Personally I thought that advancetonextframe should happen to though obviously that would be identical to the current newpage/ newframe tags. Finally for someone doing multicolumn work, but not necessarily one frame per column, I though advancetonextcolumn might help. > I maybe missing something but I really don't understand why this type > of control in DDL would be useful. I'm afraid you are... > If a program is generating DDL (which isn't difficult to do) then it > must already have an understanding of the page structure and can > therefore force text about the page as it sees fit. Not so; the program generating the DDL need not have any idea of what pages the text will be laid out on once it reaches OP, because that will depend on the actual spacing & font sizes chosen for the various styles. To know the placement exactly it would have to replicate OP's logic and determine placement to the last 1/72000 inch. However it's quit possible to want to leave the accurate placement to OP but still want at certain points in the DDL to say to OP "if you're not already at the top of a new frame/column/oddpage/evenpage, please get there. I assume that as a DDL document is imported, OP throwsaway the DDL as it build the internal representation of the document. I assume that it lays text out as it does this - but maybe that assumption is wrong? If it does do dynamic layout then until the import is complete neither the user nor OP will know how many pages will be built nor where exactly the page throws will go - I assume this is why text is described in DDL as a story, rather than being pre-ordained to be - say - the contents of the third page. > The whole point of DDL is that it is a textual description of the OP > page Is it though? I think it's a description of the incoming text, prevailing styles, and any user-selected line/page breaks, to be relaid-out as it is imported. I just took a 29 page doc where bodytext is in 12pt text, edited the DDL to change that style to 18pt and imported it. 29 pages had become 44. I accept that the original DDL had been written to describe a 29 page document, the text frames are indexed and fitted onto a chain of text frames. However I'm sure that when OP imported this and re-laid it out it added extra pages based on the prevailing master page until the story fitted. > - adding such controls to DDL could make editing a document quite > a challenge as pages are inserted and deleted as text and frames are > added and deleted. I don't see why OP would have any more difficulty with that than it does with normal insert/delete of pages. > I would be interested to understand what you are trying to achieve - at > first I thought it was some sort of document import/export but you last > chain of messages has left me confused. It is, but the document isn't starting in OP, it's ending there. Something else without page-layout knowledge will generate DDL then OP import it and lay out the text as implied by DDL def of styles etc; in rare instances when I want to force a newframe/page DDL should be able to do that. Once OP has laid the doc out, applets should be able to run through the text and gather absolute info about where things are - something I won't have known until then. TOC, index & cross-refs can be generated then. -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:10:04 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151092 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:09:55 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991074025:10:26915:110; Mon, 28 May 2001 18:20:25 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1112641; 28 May 2001 18:19 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4SIJLs30387 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 28 May 2001 19:19:21 +0100 Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.171]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4SIJH530384 for ; Mon, 28 May 2001 19:19:17 +0100 Received: from modem-18.neptunium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.66.18] helo=beeston12) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 154Rbx-0002QA-00; Mon, 28 May 2001 19:19:25 +0100 Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 18:10:52 +0100 From: Robin Phillips To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Cc: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Printing query and minor error in manual Message-ID: <52ffd5814a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a81740eabroy.matra@ukgateway.net> X-Organization: home X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.64b User-Agent: POPstar/2.03 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In message <4a81740eabroy.matra@ukgateway.net> "Roy K.Gillard" wrote: > In article <9cb652814a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk>, > Robin Phillips wrote: > > However I can see there no way of selecting 1 pair of pages from a > > pamphlet. Is this possible? > Yes. Simply click the printer button, then select the single sheet option > and the dialogue box presented allows you to select the particular pages > you want printed. Make sure you click 'Print sheet' button and do not > press Enter otherwise you will set it printing the whole document or > whatever was the 'set' option, again. > > At least, that is how it is in v2.58 Thank you for your attempt to help, Roy, but in version 2.63 (sorry if I failed to say that was what I am using now) I can see NO "single sheet" option. So i will await further comments from other users. Robin. -- Robin Phillips, 1, Newcastle Avenue, Beeston, Notts., NG9 1BT; Phone: +44 (0)115 922 4930 E-mail: rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:10:10 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151098 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:10:09 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991060253:20:19030:65; Mon, 28 May 2001 14:30:53 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2119899; 28 May 2001 14:30 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4SETOv29475 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 28 May 2001 15:29:24 +0100 Received: from snowstorm.mail.pipex.net (snowstorm.mail.pipex.net [158.43.192.97]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4SETK529472 for ; Mon, 28 May 2001 15:29:20 +0100 Received: (qmail 2881 invoked from network); 28 May 2001 14:29:28 -0000 Received: from userat19.uk.uudial.com (HELO RiscPC) (62.188.137.122) by smtp-6.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 28 May 2001 14:29:28 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Roy K.Gillard" To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 23:21:07 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Printing query and minor error in manual Message-ID: <4a81740eabroy.matra@ukgateway.net> In-Reply-To: <9cb652814a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> References: <9cb652814a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02a (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.02 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <9cb652814a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk>, Robin Phillips wrote: > However I can see there no way of selecting 1 pair of pages from a > pamphlet. Is this possible? Yes. Simply click the printer button, then select the single sheet option and the dialogue box presented allows you to select the particular pages you want printed. Make sure you click 'Print sheet' button and do not press Enter otherwise you will set it printing the whole document or whatever was the 'set' option, again. At least, that is how it is in v2.58 Regards, Roy -- StrongArm RISC OS Computers for speed and reliability Psion Palmtops for speed, reliability and portability http://www.roy.matra.ukgateway.net/ email: roy.matra@ukgateway.net (PGP key available) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:10:15 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151100 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:10:13 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991081303:10:00084:72; Mon, 28 May 2001 20:21:43 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1127948; 28 May 2001 20:20 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4SKJi130864 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 28 May 2001 21:19:44 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4SKJe530861 for ; Mon, 28 May 2001 21:19:40 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 154TUS-000Olg-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 28 May 2001 20:19:48 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 21:17:12 +0100 Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe Message-ID: <4a81e70e70Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a81b21266rah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk> References: <150967@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a80185f63rah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk> <4a80cf6662Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4a8129e8bbr User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 28 May, Robin A. Hampshire wrote: > In article <4a813da83fsteve.pampling@argonet.co.uk>, Steven Pampling > wrote: > > In article <4a8129e8bbrah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk>, Robin A. > > Hampshire wrote: > > > If OPro is the only app which makes use of DDL files - ie if DDL > > > isn't a more widely used standard, then anything goes. > > Er, last I knew you were writing an export script for Organizer so > > I thought you would understand this one. If people start mucking > > around with existing commands all sorts of things could break. > > Fortunately I haven't used the {newframe} {newpage} stuff in my > > scripts at all - although I did think about it... > Yes, I agree with you, Steve. The other half of my post had a great > big "But, If" in it, which stated that it's not too good an idea to > fiddle with established standards. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the > phrase "anything goes", but I was intending that my second paragraph > (which you didn't quote) was the significant one IYSWIM. It's the idea that we shouldn't change the existing - although wrong - behaviour of {newpage} and {newframe} that made me suggest the addition of some new tags. -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:10:19 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151102 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:10:17 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991062675:20:09925:66; Mon, 28 May 2001 15:11:15 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab2106615; 28 May 2001 15:10 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4SF9K829704 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 28 May 2001 16:09:20 +0100 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.177]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4SF9G529701 for ; Mon, 28 May 2001 16:09:16 +0100 Received: from modem-226.banded-shark.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.226.226] helo=freeserve.co.uk) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 154Oe3-0003KU-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 28 May 2001 16:09:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Robin A. Hampshire" To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 11:38:28 +0100 Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe Message-ID: <4a81b21266rah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a813da83fsteve.pampling@argonet.co.uk> References: <150967@pilling.demon.co.uk> <4a80185f63rah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk> <4a80cf6662Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> <4a8129e8bbr User-Agent: Pluto/2.02d (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article <4a813da83fsteve.pampling@argonet.co.uk>, Steven Pampling wrote: > In article <4a8129e8bbrah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk>, Robin A. > Hampshire wrote: > > If OPro is the only app which makes use of DDL files - ie if DDL > > isn't a more widely used standard, then anything goes. > Er, last I knew you were writing an export script for Organizer so > I thought you would understand this one. If people start mucking > around with existing commands all sorts of things could break. > Fortunately I haven't used the {newframe} {newpage} stuff in my > scripts at all - although I did think about it... Yes, I agree with you, Steve. The other half of my post had a great big "But, If" in it, which stated that it's not too good an idea to fiddle with established standards. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the phrase "anything goes", but I was intending that my second paragraph (which you didn't quote) was the significant one IYSWIM. Sorry I didn't make it clearer. -- Robin Hampshire rah@brushford.fsnet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:10:21 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151103 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:10:20 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991081786:10:04203:74; Mon, 28 May 2001 20:29:46 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1113223; 28 May 2001 20:29 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4SKSaK30959 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 28 May 2001 21:28:36 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4SKSX530956 for ; Mon, 28 May 2001 21:28:33 +0100 Received: from [62.188.150.80] (helo=62.188.150.80) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 154TZo-0007Fp-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 28 May 2001 21:25:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Angela Craggs) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 19:07:53 +0100 X-Organization: ArgoNet, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: Posty - Voyager Email 1.24 for RISC OS 3.70 Subject: Re: Printing query and minor error in manual Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Sun 27 May 2001 (18:16:54 +0100), rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk wrote: > Therefore I wanted to print that sheet (p.2 on left, p.7 on right, > reverse is blank) Choose File > Print > Format Pamphlet > Print setup > Print sheet, select the sheet number and choose Front or Back as appropriate Angela Craggs -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ acraggs@argonet.co.uk www.argonet.co.uk/users/acraggs -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:10:36 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151109 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:10:35 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991087902:10:24667:73; Mon, 28 May 2001 22:11:42 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1127209; 28 May 2001 22:11 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4SLvbW31331 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 28 May 2001 22:57:37 +0100 Received: from murphys-outbound.servers.plus.net ([212.159.14.225]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4SLvU531321 for ; Mon, 28 May 2001 22:57:30 +0100 Received: (qmail 17014 invoked from network); 28 May 2001 21:57:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tinshill.force9.net) (212.159.22.93) by murphys with SMTP; 28 May 2001 21:57:26 -0000 Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 21:48:10 +0100 (BST) From: Anthony Hilton Subject: Re: Printing query and minor error in manual To: Ovation Pro List In-Reply-To: <9cb652814a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In on Sun 27 May, Robin Phillips wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > I have been trying to solve a printing problem, and report: > > Chapter 12 (p.170) of the Manual (supplied on CD with version 2.60) right > hand column, 4th paragraph, reads "If your document has more than one > chapter and the page numbering is not contiguous ..." For "contiguous" read > "continuous". > Two separate words, not synonyms, with meaning close enough that in this context you could substitute as you suggest. > In the left column of the same page, final para, for "incorrectly order" > read either "incorrectly ordered" OR "not in correct order", > I found this (because you'd sent me looking) on p171. Anthony Hilton -- ajh@tinshill.f9.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:10:39 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151111 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:10:38 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991088837:10:02166:73; Mon, 28 May 2001 22:27:17 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1002349; 28 May 2001 22:27 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4SLvd731332 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 28 May 2001 22:57:39 +0100 Received: from murphys-outbound.servers.plus.net ([212.159.14.225]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4SLvW531325 for ; Mon, 28 May 2001 22:57:32 +0100 Received: (qmail 17038 invoked from network); 28 May 2001 21:57:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tinshill.force9.net) (212.159.22.93) by murphys with SMTP; 28 May 2001 21:57:29 -0000 Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 21:35:36 +0100 (BST) From: Anthony Hilton Subject: Re: Printing query and minor error in manual To: Ovation Pro List In-Reply-To: <52ffd5814a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In on Mon 28 May, Robin Phillips wrote: > In message <4a81740eabroy.matra@ukgateway.net> > "Roy K.Gillard" wrote: > > > In article <9cb652814a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk>, > > Robin Phillips wrote: > > > However I can see there no way of selecting 1 pair of pages from a > > > pamphlet. Is this possible? > > Yes. Simply click the printer button, then select the single sheet > > option and the dialogue box presented allows you to select the particular > > pages you want printed. Make sure you click 'Print sheet' button and do > > not press Enter otherwise you will set it printing the whole document or > > whatever was the 'set' option, again. > > > > At least, that is how it is in v2.58 > > Thank you for your attempt to help, Roy, but in version 2.63 (sorry if I > failed to say that was what I am using now) I can see NO "single sheet" > option. > > So i will await further comments from other users. Robin. Set the Print settings as though to print the full document again, then the button you want is labelled Print Sheet... which opens a daughter dialogue box which shows which pages are together on each side of a sheet. Use the bump arrows to change to the correct sheet and click Print Sheet... in this new box to print the pair of pages on that one sheet (click it with adjust to keep the dialogue box open if you want to print the back after the front has printed and you've turned the paper over). Anthony Hilton -- ajh@tinshill.f9.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:10:42 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151112 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:10:40 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991077767:20:19224:66; Mon, 28 May 2001 19:22:47 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2123845; 28 May 2001 19:22 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4SJK2N30618 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 28 May 2001 20:20:02 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4SJJv530605 for ; Mon, 28 May 2001 20:19:57 +0100 Received: from bigbo.demon.co.uk ([193.237.223.106]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 154SYg-000O1x-0V for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 28 May 2001 20:20:06 +0100 Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 20:19:23 +0100 (BST) From: John Bodiam Subject: Re: Printing query and minor error in manual To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <52ffd5814a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Mon 28 May, Robin Phillips wrote: > In message <4a81740eabroy.matra@ukgateway.net> > "Roy K.Gillard" wrote: > > So i will await further comments from other users. Robin. Have you got !Imposit applet installed? John -- -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:10:49 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151115 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:10:45 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991089731:10:09382:69; Mon, 28 May 2001 22:42:11 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id ab1009372; 28 May 2001 22:41 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4SLvfn31333 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 28 May 2001 22:57:41 +0100 Received: from murphys-outbound.servers.plus.net ([212.159.14.225]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4SLvY531328 for ; Mon, 28 May 2001 22:57:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 17061 invoked from network); 28 May 2001 21:57:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO tinshill.force9.net) (212.159.22.93) by murphys with SMTP; 28 May 2001 21:57:30 -0000 Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 21:26:54 +0100 (BST) From: Anthony Hilton Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe To: Ovation Pro List In-Reply-To: <4a81b5b014Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In on Mon 28 May, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > On 27 May, David Breakwell wrote: > > In article <4a80cf6662Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk>, > > Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > > > {advancetonextframe} > > > {advancetonextcolumn} <-- that's maybe a frill... > > > {advancetonextpage} > > > {advancetonextleftpage} > > > {advancetonextrightpage} > > > > I would be interested to understand what you are trying to achieve - at > > first I thought it was some sort of document import/export but you last > > chain of messages has left me confused. > > It is, but the document isn't starting in OP, it's ending there. > Something else without page-layout knowledge will generate DDL then OP > import it and lay out the text as implied by DDL def of styles etc; in > rare instances when I want to force a newframe/page DDL should be able to > do that. Once OP has laid the doc out, applets should be able to run > through the text and gather absolute info about where things are - > something I won't have known until then. TOC, index & cross-refs can be > generated then. > Does OPro have the facility to set a style to force the start of a paragraph to the head of a frame or page? I think this would achieve a similar result to what Jeremy suggests. This is more definite that widow/orphan control or keep with next x lines. The style attribute could possibly be extended to make text in Chapter Heading style the start of a new chapter (with L or R page as specified for the chapter), but maybe DDL can handle new chapters with more refinement. Anthony Hilton -- ajh@tinshill.f9.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:11:19 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151128 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:11:18 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991091855:20:27257:86; Mon, 28 May 2001 23:17:35 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2119820; 28 May 2001 23:15 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4SNFKS31822 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 29 May 2001 00:15:20 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4SNFG531819 for ; Tue, 29 May 2001 00:15:17 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 154WEP-0008aL-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 28 May 2001 23:15:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 00:05:05 +0100 Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe Message-ID: <4a81f66d04Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4a81b5b014Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 28 May, Anthony Hilton wrote: > Does OPro have the facility to set a style to force the start of a > paragraph to the head of a frame or page? Don't think so. > I think this would achieve a similar result to what Jeremy suggests. I think so... > This is more definite that widow/orphan control or keep with next x > lines. ...neither of which are in OP at the present (or if they are, they are not accessible). > The style attribute could possibly be extended to make text in Chapter > Heading style the start of a new chapter (with L or R page as specified > for the chapter), but maybe DDL can handle new chapters with more > refinement. Possibly, but you can want a new page without wanting a new chapter. -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 29 22:11:21 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151129 for opro ; Tue, 29 May 101 22:11:20 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991127599:20:08037:114; Tue, 29 May 2001 09:13:19 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab2115710; 29 May 2001 9:07 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4T93OZ00888 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 29 May 2001 10:03:24 +0100 Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.171]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4T93K500885 for ; Tue, 29 May 2001 10:03:20 +0100 Received: from modem-50.uranium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.65.178] helo=beeston12) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 154fPU-000151-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 29 May 2001 10:03:28 +0100 Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 22:03:39 +0100 From: Robin Phillips To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Printing query and minor error in manual Message-ID: <04feb814a%rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: home X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.64b User-Agent: POPstar/2.03 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Dear Angela, In message you wrote: > On Sun 27 May 2001 (18:16:54 +0100), rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk wrote: > > Therefore I wanted to print that sheet (p.2 on left, p.7 on right, > > reverse is blank) > > Choose File > Print > Format Pamphlet > Print setup > Print sheet, select the > sheet number and choose Front or Back as appropriate Many thanks! It's marvellous what I can't see until I look... I assume that the print sheet button is something which was not in the earlier versions of OvationPro, when I first used it, so thank you for up-dating me! Yours sincerely, Robin. -- Robin Phillips, 1, Newcastle Avenue, Beeston, Notts., NG9 1BT; Phone: +44 (0)115 922 4930 E-mail: rphillips@beeston12.freeserve.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 30 02:19:43 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151147 for opro ; Wed, 30 May 101 02:19:41 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991170779:10:21079:72; Tue, 29 May 2001 21:12:59 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1020114; 29 May 2001 21:12 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4TL77S02882 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 29 May 2001 22:07:07 +0100 Received: from norwegia.access.ch (mail.access.ch [195.112.71.134]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4TL70502879 for ; Tue, 29 May 2001 22:07:00 +0100 Received: from janvredenb.access.ch (megapop11-40.access.ch [212.161.131.168]) by norwegia.access.ch (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA05095 for ; Tue, 29 May 2001 23:07:08 +0200 Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 22:36:38 +0200 (BST) From: Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe To: OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <4a7fb86f63Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: tevens Secretariaat Stichting Van Vredenburch; CIC member X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Thu 24 May, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: snip some > In the OP manual you have section titles that are consecutively numbered > within each chapter and this info also appears in the running headers of > the rh pages. Was this done manually or is there an applet that supports > this? Manually. As can be checked by selecting the Master page. You will then see that the consecutive numbering is left blank. This numbering was inserted in the main frame after having made the header frame local so as to be able to edit it. JohnvV -- JM van Vredenburch tel +41 41 3706125 | RiscOS Schaedruetihalde 5 fax +41 41 3706120 | Computers CH - 6006 Luzern email janvredenb@access.ch | only :-) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 30 03:27:57 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151189 for opro ; Wed, 30 May 101 03:27:53 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991175121:10:08042:69; Tue, 29 May 2001 22:25:21 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1006896; 29 May 2001 22:24 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4TMK6o03249 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 29 May 2001 23:20:06 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4TMK1503245 for ; Tue, 29 May 2001 23:20:02 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 154rqS-000K03-0X for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 29 May 2001 23:20:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 22:55:05 +0100 Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe Message-ID: <4a8273da42Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4a7fb86f63Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 29 May, Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch wrote: > On Thu 24 May, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > snip some > > In the OP manual you have section titles that are consecutively > > numbered within each chapter and this info also appears in the > > running headers of the rh pages. Was this done manually or is there > > an applet that supports this? > Manually. As can be checked by selecting the Master page. You will then > see that the consecutive numbering is left blank. This numbering was > inserted in the main frame after having made the header frame local so > as to be able to edit it. It *does* seem to (me) to be an area ripe for automation. -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 30 14:52:46 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151197 for opro ; Wed, 30 May 101 14:52:45 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991203274:10:16001:69; Wed, 30 May 2001 06:14:34 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1106899; 30 May 2001 6:13 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4U1GtR03783 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 30 May 2001 02:16:55 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.90]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4QHG6521815 for ; Sat, 26 May 2001 18:16:10 +0100 Received: from croftsdt.demon.co.uk ([158.152.77.40]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 153hfg-000K1Z-0W; Sat, 26 May 2001 18:16:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: David Crofts To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Cc: Pluto-Useres@egroups.co.uk Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 10:38:17 +0100 Subject: OVPro and !Pluto Message-ID: <4a80a4e3a7david@pandda.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02b (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro If I try to start up Ovation Pro (2.63) after !Pluto (2.02b) has been loaded -and even if I have quit from !Pluto- OVPro will not load. A blank Postmortem window appears and I have to reset the computer. Any ideas, please? Thanks David Crofts -- <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< < / _\ Rev David T Crofts | | \ _____ | |_/avid / \/ \__/rofts \_____/\ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 30 14:52:52 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151199 for opro ; Wed, 30 May 101 14:52:50 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991204031:10:29988:76; Wed, 30 May 2001 06:27:11 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1029859; 30 May 2001 6:26 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4U2TVj03936 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 30 May 2001 03:29:31 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4U2TP503924 for ; Wed, 30 May 2001 03:29:25 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 154vjp-0007eq-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 30 May 2001 02:29:33 +0000 Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 03:09:59 GMT Message-Id: <151181@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: More on dictionaries X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >This then created a problem with the spell check in Messenger Pro >that when doing a spell check it looks at the Hyphenation directory not >the MainDict. I don't have Messenger Pro but ISTR from my work on the spell check module that programs which use it should (can) provide a way of choosing which dictionaries they use. >To overcome that I have had to reinstall !Words into the Ovation dir and >have it contain only the Hyphenation dir. Hmm. Although you can have many !Words I think only one is actually active. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 30 14:53:00 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151201 for opro ; Wed, 30 May 101 14:52:57 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991208115:10:28337:69; Wed, 30 May 2001 07:35:15 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1026841; 30 May 2001 7:34 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4U7Xg804900 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 30 May 2001 08:33:42 +0100 Received: from mserv1c.vianw.co.uk (mserv1c.vianw.co.uk [195.102.240.33]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4U7Xb504896 for ; Wed, 30 May 2001 08:33:38 +0100 Received: from [194.119.179.59] (helo=Caslon.english.co.uk) by mserv1c.vianw.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #5) id 1550UC-0006IC-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 30 May 2001 08:33:44 +0100 Received: from Gill (10.0.1.1) by Caslon.english.co.uk; Wed, 30 May 2001 08:25:22 +0100 Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 08:25:23 +0100 From: David Graddol To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Assistance with output required! Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4a811b5278andy.progs@metallic.freeserve.co.uk> X-Organization: The English Company (UK) Ltd X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro > This is a new experience for me. On arriving at the printers for a quote, > armed with a PDF of the leaflet, the printer subsequently suggested that > it be supplied as a CMYK EPS, or failing that, a CMYK TIFF. > > Does anyone have any ideas how I can get this sort of output from an OvPro > file? It has a large photographic image on one side. > > I currently use 2.63, alongside RiScript 4.13, Artworks 1.7c and a host of > other little bits. > > Any ideas? Thanks I would find another printer. You'll have continuing grief with this one. What they probably want to do is place each page back into Quark to create their own document. Your main problem will be the photographic image, especially if this in colour. The PDF you have created is almost certainly RGB colour. That should not phase any decent printer but if they do not have the necessary PDF tools, or if they are a jobbing printer which does not have anyone properly trained in PDF work, then it will be a problem. Sometimes, it is better to go to a prepress bureau to get the film run out and take the film to the printer. A bureau should have the necessary PDF software. And, even if they can't run film direct from PDFs, they should be able to export the PDF pages as EPS and place that in Quark. In fact, they may be able to place the PDF directly into another page makeup package. David -- The English Company (UK) Ltd http://www.english.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 30 14:53:48 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151211 for opro ; Wed, 30 May 101 14:53:47 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991204863:20:28220:65; Wed, 30 May 2001 06:41:03 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2027976; 30 May 2001 6:40 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4U1GuH03784 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 30 May 2001 02:16:56 +0100 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk (mail1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.18]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4R7B1524100 for ; Sun, 27 May 2001 08:11:01 +0100 Received: from modem-263.great-egret.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.189.7] helo=localhost.com) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 153uhh-0000wM-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sun, 27 May 2001 08:11:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Andy's Progs" To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 08:11:53 +0100 Subject: Assistance with output required! Message-ID: <4a811b5278andy.progs@metallic.freeserve.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/1.14i (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Having produced a leaflet for a local charity organisation, they were so (easily!) impressed that they wanted it printing properly. This is a new experience for me. On arriving at the printers for a quote, armed with a PDF of the leaflet, the printer subsequently suggested that it be supplied as a CMYK EPS, or failing that, a CMYK TIFF. Does anyone have any ideas how I can get this sort of output from an OvPro file? It has a large photographic image on one side. I currently use 2.63, alongside RiScript 4.13, Artworks 1.7c and a host of other little bits. Any ideas? Thanks -- ------------------------------------------ Andy - andy.progs@metallic.freeserve.co.uk Worksop, Nottinghamshire Derbyshire@Heart Home of the World-Famous(?) Creswell Crags ------------------------------------------ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 30 14:53:53 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151213 for opro ; Wed, 30 May 101 14:53:52 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991205292:20:16241:65; Wed, 30 May 2001 06:48:12 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2114455; 30 May 2001 6:48 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4U2TZc03938 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 30 May 2001 03:29:35 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4U2TR503928 for ; Wed, 30 May 2001 03:29:27 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 154vjr-0007eq-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 30 May 2001 02:29:35 +0000 Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 03:13:30 GMT Message-Id: <151183@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Printing query and minor error in manual X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R >hand column, 4th paragraph, reads "If your document has more than one chapter >and the page numbering is not contiguous ..." For "contiguous" read >"continuous". I wonder if either is correct, what it actually means is that the the page numbers are always increasing. Missing pages are not a problem. >In the left column of the same page, final para, for "incorrectly order" read >either "incorrectly ordered" OR "not in correct order", Thanks. >Further down this right column of the same page we are shown a variety of >expressions for entering into the print dialogue window the selection of >pages we want to be printed. However I can see there no way of selecting 1 >pair of pages from a pamphlet. Is this possible? Others have since told you how to handle this problem with the 'sheets' window. However you can use the range facility too, but you need to enter all four page numbers that appear on one sheet. If you enter say just two page numbers then OPro will attempt to sort out the page layout again. So the two pages that should appear on one side of a sheet may appear on opposite sides. >On the top left of p.170 I noticed the heading Printers Pairs, Which are just like 'Pamphlet' but don't set a scaling factor David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 30 19:11:00 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151238 for opro ; Wed, 30 May 101 19:10:57 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991244857:10:16121:83; Wed, 30 May 2001 17:47:37 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1117026; 30 May 2001 17:46 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4UHjHN06549 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 30 May 2001 18:45:17 +0100 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk (mail2.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.210]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4UAgl505496 for ; Wed, 30 May 2001 11:42:48 +0100 Received: from modem-125.amoxicillin.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.78.253] helo=nacro-ollerton.fsnet.co.uk) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 1553RH-0006E5-00; Wed, 30 May 2001 11:42:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Andy Marks To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk, david@english.co.uk Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 10:42:42 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Assistance with output required! Message-ID: <4a82ba2168andy@andy-marks.net> In-Reply-To: References: <4a811b5278andy.progs@metallic.freeserve.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/1.14i (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 30 May, David Graddol wrote: > I would find another printer. You'll have continuing grief with > this one. What they probably want to do is place each page back > into Quark to create their own document. > Your main problem will be the photographic image, especially if > this in colour. The PDF you have created is almost certainly RGB > colour. That should not phase any decent printer but if they do > not have the necessary PDF tools, or if they are a jobbing > printer which does not have anyone properly trained in PDF work, > then it will be a problem. > Sometimes, it is better to go to a prepress bureau to get the > film run out and take the film to the printer. A bureau should > have the necessary PDF software. And, even if they can't run film > direct from PDFs, they should be able to export the PDF pages as > EPS and place that in Quark. In fact, they may be able to place > the PDF directly into another page makeup package. Thanks for the help. This is exactly what they did today. I went back to the printers this morning, and managed to bypass the "sales executive" I had been dealing with. I went straight to the "artist" who rendered it suitable for output in about 3 seconds from the PDF I supplied originally, before spending about 6 hours trying to convert the thing! No problems at all. There's a phrase here about monkeys and organ-grinders, I think! But thanks for the advice. Andy -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 31 01:48:06 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151249 for opro ; Thu, 31 May 101 01:48:03 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991254045:20:05149:65; Wed, 30 May 2001 20:20:45 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2005006; 30 May 2001 20:20 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4UKJJE07014 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 30 May 2001 21:19:19 +0100 Received: from norwegia.access.ch (mail.access.ch [195.112.71.134]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4UKJE507011 for ; Wed, 30 May 2001 21:19:15 +0100 Received: from janvredenb.access.ch (megapop5-107.access.ch [212.161.129.107]) by norwegia.access.ch (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA07819; Wed, 30 May 2001 22:19:22 +0200 Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 21:53:57 +0200 (BST) From: Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe To: OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <4a8273da42Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: tevens Secretariaat Stichting Van Vredenburch; CIC member X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Tue 29 May, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > On 29 May, Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch wrote: > > On Thu 24 May, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > > > snip some > > > > In the OP manual you have section titles that are consecutively > > > numbered within each chapter and this info also appears in the > > > running headers of the rh pages. Was this done manually or is there > > > an applet that supports this? > > > Manually. As can be checked by selecting the Master page. You will then > > see that the consecutive numbering is left blank. This numbering was > > inserted in the main frame after having made the header frame local so > > as to be able to edit it. > > It *does* seem to (me) to be an area ripe for automation. How??? Analyse the problem first. A section title will appear on a certain page. But nowhere is fixed where the end of this section is. It can be one page, or many pages. And if many pages are concerned, how must OvPro manage this when basically counting from page to page. What you want is to be able to insert a certain amount of text of a document at a certain position depending on text within a document. One thing - a long time wish on my side - comes to mind: the automatic filename insertion when printing. Especially when using ArcFax. The logfile then automatically keeps track of faxes sent. Another option would be to have a file reference automatically added to every single page of a document. This has nothing to do with filenames, but exclusively with referencing to text within a document. And in the case now discussed: the auto-insertion of a certain amount of text. But beware: if the section number changes after more than one page, how can the program keep track of this? (Because of a certain position within a document, a special 'Reference' frame??!!??) But all such wishes are not page based, and therefore not based on the page numbering system. It is maybe good to remind that the new manual was generally based on the old one as far as the layout is concerned. So it would not come over as completely new for old-time users. Personally I did not like said references in the 'headings'. If a 3rd -revised- manual appears, I shall see with David Pilling how we then proceed. Greetings, JohnvV -- JM van Vredenburch tel +41 41 3706125 | RiscOS Schaedruetihalde 5 fax +41 41 3706120 | Computers CH - 6006 Luzern email janvredenb@access.ch | only :-) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 31 01:48:30 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151255 for opro ; Thu, 31 May 101 01:48:23 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991259318:20:00297:66; Wed, 30 May 2001 21:48:38 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2000055; 30 May 2001 21:48 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4ULjdn07319 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 30 May 2001 22:45:39 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4ULjZ507316 for ; Wed, 30 May 2001 22:45:35 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 155Dmd-000BSI-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 30 May 2001 21:45:40 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 22:45:32 +0100 Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe Message-ID: <4a82f6d08dJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4a8273da42Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R On 30 May, Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch wrote: > How??? > Analyse the problem first. I've used other packages that achieve this so there's no point in trying to pretend that it is not possible... > A section title will appear on a certain page. But nowhere is fixed > where the end of this section is. It can be one page, or many pages. And > if many pages are concerned, how must OvPro manage this when basically > counting from page to page. Most docs that do this run each section title from the first page it occurs on until it is superceded - but in any case that's down to the individual preferences of the applet writer. Easy to store current section text in a variable as you scan thru the document. > What you want is to be able to insert a certain amount of text of a > document at a certain position depending on text within a document. Yes. That's not significantly different from generating cross references within a document. [snip] > And in the case now discussed: the auto-insertion of a certain amount > of text. But beware: if the section number changes after more than one > page, how can the program keep track of this? Rather than keep track of things as the document is manipulated I'd envisage scanning the whole document once when it is complete. In fact I think I'd work with a copy of the document so that subsequent changes to layout in the real document didn't cause problems. I'm sure there's ways of doing it dynamically but I think it adds unneeded complexity. There's also (probably) ways to do this by processing a ddl file externally and building more ddl either to be appended to the original document (or inserted somewhere) or for an applet to run using the ddl() function. > (Because of a certain position within a document, a special 'Reference' > frame??!!??) unsure what you mean I posted some ideas about this elsewhere; eg if you decided on the masterpage that something called "mytext" would be provided later, then in theory you could later replace it with the contents of {mytext23} on the 23rd page etc, and use an applet to scan the doc and create the macros before the resolution of the text occurs. > But all such wishes are not page based, and therefore not based on the > page numbering system. Doesn't matter; you could identify section headings in the text by use of a particular style, or by delimiting them with bookmarks. > It is maybe good to remind that the new manual was generally based on > the old one as far as the layout is concerned. So it would not come over > as completely new for old-time users. Personally I did not like said > references in the 'headings'. If a 3rd -revised- manual appears, I shall > see with David Pilling how we then proceed. I'm truly amazed that it was done manually. Perhaps I should say that the bulk of my experience in these sorts of things has been in a programmed text formatting language used on IBM mainframes (and elsewhere). Most people used facilities created by IBM or at least by their site's experts. I was the expert in two places and wrote extensive macros for extending what the systems could do. To some extent I'm trying to bend applets to do the sort of things I used to do in that system. The only thing I don't yet see how to do (for this sort of thing) is how to update text that is in a master-page frame via an applet nor am I sure whether the applet would need to be started manually just before a print or driven from one of OP's events, perhaps page-by-page. For example, in a normal document view if you do a find for some text you'll not (as far as I know) locate something that is placed in a master frame. But there must be a way because OP itself, if you put "#" in a header or footer, will resolve that symbol with a value. All I need is a way to get control when such resolution is occurring so that I can place other text there too. -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 31 01:48:42 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151258 for opro ; Thu, 31 May 101 01:48:38 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991260056:20:02626:65; Wed, 30 May 2001 22:00:56 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2002393; 30 May 2001 22:00 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4ULxqO07433 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 30 May 2001 22:59:52 +0100 Received: from mserv1b.vianw.co.uk (mserv1b.vianw.co.uk [195.102.240.137]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4ULxm507430 for ; Wed, 30 May 2001 22:59:48 +0100 Received: from [194.119.179.59] (helo=Caslon.english.co.uk) by mserv1b.vianw.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #5) id 155E0Q-0006q2-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 30 May 2001 22:59:55 +0100 Received: from Gill (10.0.1.1) by Caslon.english.co.uk; Wed, 30 May 2001 22:59:07 +0100 Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 22:59:12 +0100 From: David Graddol To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Assistance with output required! Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4a82ba2168andy@andy-marks.net> X-Organization: The English Company (UK) Ltd X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Andy Marks wrote: > On 30 May, David Graddol wrote: > > I would find another printer. You'll have continuing grief with > > this one. What they probably want to do is place each page back > > into Quark to create their own document. > > > Your main problem will be the photographic image, especially if > > this in colour. The PDF you have created is almost certainly RGB > > colour. That should not phase any decent printer but if they do > > not have the necessary PDF tools, or if they are a jobbing > > printer which does not have anyone properly trained in PDF work, > > then it will be a problem. > > > Sometimes, it is better to go to a prepress bureau to get the > > film run out and take the film to the printer. A bureau should > > have the necessary PDF software. And, even if they can't run film > > direct from PDFs, they should be able to export the PDF pages as > > EPS and place that in Quark. In fact, they may be able to place > > the PDF directly into another page makeup package. > > Thanks for the help. This is exactly what they did today. > > I went back to the printers this morning, and managed to bypass the "sales > executive" I had been dealing with. I went straight to the "artist" who > rendered it suitable for output in about 3 seconds from the PDF I supplied > originally, before spending about 6 hours trying to convert the thing! No > problems at all. There's a phrase here about monkeys and organ-grinders, I > think! > > But thanks for the advice. > A salutary tale. In my experience, the people who actually drive the Macs (and prepress is still a Macintosh dominated world) are usually helpful folk. Bureaux earn their living from dealing with the messes which clients bring to them and so tend to see each job as an interesting challenge. So there's no need to feel defensive about bringing in work that is originated in OvPro or which is less than perfect technically. Perhaps it is also worth reminding people that there are a few bureaux who will happily take native OvPro files and send you back film which you can take to a local printer - or who will print your job for you. But PDF is emerging as the key format which will allow us to talk to the rest of the prepress and printing industry. The PC/Mac world is now up to Acrobat 5, by the way. David -- The English Company (UK) Ltd http://www.english.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 31 01:49:12 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151267 for opro ; Thu, 31 May 101 01:49:11 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991265616:20:15791:65; Wed, 30 May 2001 23:33:36 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2015680; 30 May 2001 23:33 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4UNVLk07801 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 31 May 2001 00:31:21 +0100 Received: from snowy.kiwilink.co.nz (snowy.kiwilink.co.nz [202.27.215.2]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4UNVF507798 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 00:31:15 +0100 Received: from timk.ns.planet.gen.nz (ppp-26.kiwilink.co.nz [202.27.215.92]) by snowy.kiwilink.co.nz (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f4UNUW611402 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 11:30:32 +1200 (NZST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Tim King To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 10:08:17 +1300 Subject: Re: Assistance with output required! Message-ID: <4a82f36790tim@de-sig.co.nz> In-Reply-To: References: <4a811b5278andy.progs@metallic.freeserve.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02e (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article , David Graddol wrote: > export the PDF pages as EPS and place that in Quark. I've only had to do this once in the past (sometimes you just 'inherit' a printer on a job, and you can't get rid of them). I produced the EPS with Ghostscript, and it worked fine. No PDF, no 3rd party - not even any other OS ;-) But I see the problem's solved now anyway. Tim -- Tim King... de-Sign. +64 9 478.3114 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 31 13:18:54 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151283 for opro ; Thu, 31 May 101 13:18:52 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991289467:10:08244:66; Thu, 31 May 2001 06:11:07 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1116843; 31 May 2001 6:10 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4V1wBP08267 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 31 May 2001 02:58:11 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4V1w7508264 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 02:58:07 +0100 Received: from pilling.demon.co.uk ([158.152.9.39]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 155Hj5-000DaW-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 31 May 2001 01:58:16 +0000 Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 02:11:29 GMT Message-Id: <151278@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro I'd be all in favour of making OPro more 'macro driven'. The current situation is a bit of a dogs dinner, in that the script language is bolted on. Ideally there should be one clean interface to the text processing side of things. >as I know) locate something that is placed in a master frame. But there >must be a way because OP itself, if you put "#" in a header or footer, >will resolve that symbol with a value. All I need is a way to get >control when such resolution is occurring so that I can place other text Yes, but OPro uses a special code for 'page number' and renders it one way on a master page, and another on a document page. Mail merge comes close to macro text. Its a bit clumsy having to set up a dummy mail merge situation but it will get you many features. Its an old point that a text processing language like TeX can do things which the most sophisticated desktop DTP programs can't. But thats because they get to have one pass at the document and don't have to update it as things change. I guess an applet could change master pages, but it would have to emulate user interaction, opening the master pages, changing them and then closing them. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. fax: +44(0)870-0520-941 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 31 13:19:25 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151291 for opro ; Thu, 31 May 101 13:19:23 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991294806:10:17846:72; Thu, 31 May 2001 07:40:06 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1121010; 31 May 2001 7:39 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4V7d0x09010 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 31 May 2001 08:39:00 +0100 Received: from hose.mail.pipex.net (hose.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.58]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f4V7cu509007 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 08:38:56 +0100 Received: (qmail 11411 invoked from network); 31 May 2001 07:39:00 -0000 Received: from usercp36.uk.uudial.com (HELO ukgateway.net) (62.188.156.65) by smtp-4.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 31 May 2001 07:39:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "Andy's Progs" To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 08:39:25 +0100 Subject: Assistance with output required! Message-ID: <4a832d2fd6andy.progs@metallic.freeserve.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/1.14i (RISC-OS/4.02) POPstar/2.03 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 30 May, David Graddol wrote: > A salutary tale. In my experience, the people who actually drive > the Macs (and prepress is still a Macintosh dominated world) are > usually helpful folk. Bureaux earn their living from dealing with > the messes which clients bring to them and so tend to see each job > as an interesting challenge. So there's no need to feel defensive about > bringing in work that is originated in OvPro or which is less than > perfect technically. The Mac operator actually asked what software I had used to produce it. I explained that it was from OvPro, via a printer driver, and then through RiScript. She asked loads of questions about the software, and was actually visibly shocked at the prices - far too cheap, she thought. Especially RiScript - the mere mention of 59ukp had her reeling! When I asked why, she said the PDF was the best quality she'd seen - usually they're unusable without a lot of remodification, but these were good enough first time! So, we lowly Acorn users can compete, after all! -- ------------------------------------------ Andy - andy.progs@metallic.freeserve.co.uk Worksop, Nottinghamshire Derbyshire@Heart Home of the World-Famous(?) Creswell Crags ------------------------------------------ -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From davidb@argonet.co.uk Thu May 31 13:19:32 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151293 for opro ; Thu, 31 May 101 13:19:30 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991299983:10:12523:4; Thu, 31 May 2001 09:06:23 GMT Received: from madhatter.navaho.net ([213.161.67.202]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1127723; 31 May 2001 9:06 GMT Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=madhatter.navaho.net) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 155OGz-0007iA-00 for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk; Thu, 31 May 2001 09:57:41 +0100 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: binary MIME-Version: 1.0 To: opro@pilling.demon.co.uk (David Pilling) Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe From: Reply-To: davidb@argonet.co.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: argomail Message-Id: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:57:41 +0100 At Thu, 31 May 2001 02:11:29 GMT , opro@pilling.demon.co.uk (David Pilling) wrote: > >I'd be all in favour of making OPro more 'macro driven'. The current >situation is a bit of a dogs dinner, in that the script language is bolted >on. Ideally there should be one clean interface to the text processing side >of things. > This sounds like a good approach and could reduce the burden on applet writing in many situations. I also quite like the idea o David From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 31 13:19:37 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151294 for opro ; Thu, 31 May 101 13:19:35 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991301572:10:15788:178; Thu, 31 May 2001 09:32:52 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1016270; 31 May 2001 9:32 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4V9DhQ10265 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 31 May 2001 10:13:43 +0100 Received: from mailsrv.hiway.co.uk (root@mailsrv.hiway.co.uk [195.12.1.3]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4V9Dd510258 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 10:13:39 +0100 Received: from websrv.quantel.com ([195.12.20.51]) by mailsrv.hiway.co.uk (8.11.1/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f4V9Dmd14285 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 10:13:49 +0100 Subject: Re: Auto headers (was Newpage and Newframe) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk From: Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 10:12:55 +0100 Message-ID: X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on Websrv/QuantelWeb(Release 5.0.6a |January 17, 2001) at 05/31/2001 10:18:39 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >> >> It *does* seem to (me) to be an area ripe for automation. > How??? I have mentioned this sort of thing before and it seems to me that it would help here and that is the idea of general purpose registers. A set of registers named e.g. A-Z that could be placed in a document using some "magic" character e.g. %A% and assigned to within the document. So the header in the master page could contain %A% and something in the style for section headings could assign the section name and number to register A. Now all we need is the 6 months for DP to implement this in a usable way :-) Regards Andy Ling -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 31 19:33:00 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151302 for opro ; Thu, 31 May 101 19:32:57 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991326420:10:11883:112; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:27:00 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1011259; 31 May 2001 16:25 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4VGOrr11450 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:24:53 +0100 Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4VGOo511447 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:24:50 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 155VFq-0001p8-0B for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:24:58 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:48:32 +0100 Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe Message-ID: <4a8359f749Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <151278@pilling.demon.co.uk> References: <151278@pilling.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 31 May, David Pilling wrote: > I'd be all in favour of making OPro more 'macro driven'. The current > situation is a bit of a dogs dinner, in that the script language is > bolted on. Ideally there should be one clean interface to the text > processing side of things. > >as I know) locate something that is placed in a master frame. But > >there must be a way because OP itself, if you put "#" in a header or > >footer, will resolve that symbol with a value. All I need is a way to > >get control when such resolution is occurring so that I can place > >other text > Yes, but OPro uses a special code for 'page number' and renders it one > way on a master page, and another on a document page. > Mail merge comes close to macro text. Its a bit clumsy having to set up > a dummy mail merge situation but it will get you many features. > Its an old point that a text processing language like TeX can do things > which the most sophisticated desktop DTP programs can't. But thats > because they get to have one pass at the document and don't have to > update it as things change. But an applet can scan a document many times and change pretty-much anything... > I guess an applet could change master pages, but it would have to > emulate user interaction, opening the master pages, changing them and > then closing them. The problem is that you'd need to change the master pages umpteen times, each time just before that master page was incorporated into the page about to be printed. I dunno if that is possible. Alternatively makelocal each master page as you progress through the document; I'm not sure how to locate the correct frame on each page (since makelocal acts on a selected object). > David Pilling -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 31 19:33:05 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151303 for opro ; Thu, 31 May 101 19:33:02 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991327397:10:01921:72; Thu, 31 May 2001 16:43:17 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1114564; 31 May 2001 16:42 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4VGfpb11585 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:41:51 +0100 Received: from holyrood.ed.ac.uk (holyrood.ed.ac.uk [129.215.16.14]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4VGfl511582 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:41:47 +0100 Received: from alfred.ed.ac.uk (dialup-132.publab.ed.ac.uk [129.215.38.132]) by holyrood.ed.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA19446 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:41:33 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:41:07 +0100 (BST) From: Alf Chamings Subject: Re: Assistance with output required! To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <4a832d2fd6andy.progs@metallic.freeserve.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Thu 31 May, Andy's Progs wrote: > On 30 May, David Graddol wrote: > > A salutary tale. In my experience, the people who actually drive > > the Macs (and prepress is still a Macintosh dominated world) are > > usually helpful folk. Bureaux earn their living from dealing with > > the messes which clients bring to them and so tend to see each job > > as an interesting challenge. So there's no need to feel defensive about > > bringing in work that is originated in OvPro or which is less than > > perfect technically. > > The Mac operator actually asked what software I had used to produce it. I > explained that it was from OvPro, via a printer driver, and then through > RiScript. > > She asked loads of questions about the software, and was actually visibly > shocked at the prices - far too cheap, she thought. Especially RiScript - > the mere mention of 59ukp had her reeling! > > When I asked why, she said the PDF was the best quality she'd seen - > usually they're unusable without a lot of remodification, but these were > good enough first time! > > So, we lowly Acorn users can compete, after all! > Trouble is, we are the only ones who know how lucky we are! Alf -- Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh, EH3 9YW, UK tel +44 131 536 3251 fax +44 131 536 3283 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 31 19:33:18 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151308 for opro ; Thu, 31 May 101 19:33:14 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991331030:20:04985:65; Thu, 31 May 2001 17:43:50 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2121912; 31 May 2001 17:43 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4VHh1811835 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 31 May 2001 18:43:01 +0100 Received: from norwegia.access.ch (mail.access.ch [195.112.71.134]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4VHgu511832 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 18:42:57 +0100 Received: from janvredenb.access.ch (megapop8-21.access.ch [212.161.130.21]) by norwegia.access.ch (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA12868 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 19:43:03 +0200 Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 19:34:08 +0200 (BST) From: Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe To: OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <4a82f6d08dJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: tevens Secretariaat Stichting Van Vredenburch; CIC member X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.53] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Wed 30 May, Jeremy C B Nicoll wrote: > > Analyse the problem first. > I've used other packages that achieve this so there's no point in trying > to pretend that it is not possible... It is maybe possible, with a revised program, applet or whatever. But I was looking at the present state of OvPro. > > What you want is to be able to insert a certain amount of text of a > > document at a certain position depending on text within a document. > Yes. That's not significantly different from generating cross references > within a document. Same as one does with spreadsheets? If OvPro can do that, wonderful! But I am not sure how a 'spreadsheet-box-reference' can be be translated to a chapter/frame-based program. With no sub-section chapters. And even more complicated: if two (2) following sub-sections appear on the same page. As the present manual now has. > Rather than keep track of things as the document is manipulated I'd > envisage scanning the whole document once when it is complete. In fact I > think I'd work with a copy of the document so that subsequent changes to > layout in the real document didn't cause problems. I'm lost! How do you then transfer the results of the copy back into the original? > I'm sure there's ways of doing it dynamically but I think it adds > unneeded complexity. There's also (probably) ways to do this by > processing a ddl file externally and building more ddl either to be > appended to the original document (or inserted somewhere) or for an > applet to run using the ddl() function. I presume you are aware that DDL files do not save all the info of an OvPro document. To name one: index tags. And other tags as well???? > > (Because of a certain position within a document, a special 'Reference' > > frame??!!??) > unsure what you mean Above you did mention 'cross references within a document'. As one can insert/embed a picture within text, I had something similar in mind for text within an OvPro document. A mixture of 'Embedding-picture-in-text' and a 'spreadsheet-reference-insertion'. > > But all such wishes are not page based, and therefore not based on the > > page numbering system. > Doesn't matter; you could identify section headings in the text by use of > a particular style, or by delimiting them with bookmarks. But as stated above, such bookmarks are *not* saved in DDL files. At present. > > It is maybe good to remind that the new manual was generally based on > > the old one as far as the layout is concerned. So it would not come over > > as completely new for old-time users. Personally I did not like said > > references in the 'headings'. If a 3rd -revised- manual appears, I shall > > see with David Pilling how we then proceed. > I'm truly amazed that it was done manually. Up till now, there was no other possibility. One of the easiest jobs in revising the manual. snip some.. > or at least by their site's experts. I was the expert in two places and > wrote extensive macros for extending what the systems could do. To some > extent I'm trying to bend applets to do the sort of things I used to do > in that system. Sounds very interesting. Let me know so I can eventually use your ideas/results for the next version of the manual. > The only thing I don't yet see how to do (for this sort of thing) is how > to update text that is in a master-page frame ........... But the master-page is chapter based. It is maybe possible if the Header frame is created as to be local and one can introduce a token (as is done with # for page numbers) to refer to certain position in the main frame (1st five tokens of a page, etc.) snip the rest as David Pilling is in a better position to react to this. Greetings, JohnvV -- JM van Vredenburch tel +41 41 3706125 | RiscOS Schaedruetihalde 5 fax +41 41 3706120 | Computers CH - 6006 Luzern email janvredenb@access.ch | only :-) -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 31 19:33:23 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151310 for opro ; Thu, 31 May 101 19:33:21 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991333019:20:25832:65; Thu, 31 May 2001 18:16:59 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2116236; 31 May 2001 18:16 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4VIGAO12003 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 31 May 2001 19:16:10 +0100 Received: from smtp.argonet.co.uk (madhatter.navaho.net [213.161.67.202]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4VIG6512000 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 19:16:06 +0100 Received: from [62.188.13.53] (helo=62.188.13.53) by smtp.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 155Ww9-00082N-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 31 May 2001 19:12:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "charles.hope" To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 18:52:22 +0100 Subject: Re: Assistance with output required! Message-ID: <4a83654d95charles.hope@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4a82ba2168andy@andy-marks.net> User-Agent: Pluto/2.02c (RISC-OS/4.02) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 30 May, David Graddol wrote: > But PDF is emerging as the key format which will allow us to talk to the > rest of the prepress and printing industry. The PC/Mac world is now up > to Acrobat 5, by the way. But if created by this version it may not be readable by RiScript. I'v ebeen sent files by one Mac user who instits that it is "latest technology" or nothing. He eventually sent me a 15MB TIF by e-mail. Not kind! -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 31 21:46:27 2001 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151316 for opro ; Thu, 31 May 101 21:46:22 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991335156:20:00067:65; Thu, 31 May 2001 18:52:36 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2029570; 31 May 2001 18:52 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4VIp8i12179 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 31 May 2001 19:51:08 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4VIp4512175 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 19:51:04 +0100 Received: from omba.demon.co.uk ([158.152.58.5]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 155XXL-0007UD-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 31 May 2001 18:51:11 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 19:05:13 +0100 Subject: Re: Newpage and Newframe Message-ID: <4a83667b07Jeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <4a82f6d08dJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/2.01g (RISC-OS/3.70) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On 31 May, Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch wrote: > > Rather than keep track of things as the document is manipulated I'd > > envisage scanning the whole document once when it is complete. In > > fact I think I'd work with a copy of the document so that subsequent > > changes to layout in the real document didn't cause problems. > I'm lost! How do you then transfer the results of the copy back into the > original? I think maybe you don't... I can (sort-of) see some code methods that could - just once - look for book-marks or embedded literals or something in parts of a document, then collect info about the document then replace the bms or literals with new text. Having done that I can't readily see how to support further editing of the updated document, though it might be possible to identify the replacement text and remove it again, thus returning to the text with the embedded literals only. That's why I thought I *might* end up with a document-in-progree with embedded literals etc, and if I wanted a fully-formed print of it I'd duplicate the file, then run the applet against the copy to update the copy's literals to whatever was needed. > I presume you are aware that DDL files do not save all the info of an > OvPro document. To name one: index tags. And other tags as well???? I'm aware. Working around this will be a nuisance... > > > (Because of a certain position within a document, a special 'Reference' > > > frame??!!??) > > unsure what you mean > Above you did mention 'cross references within a document'. As one can > insert/embed a picture within text, I had something similar in mind for > text within an OvPro document. A mixture of 'Embedding-picture-in-text' > and a 'spreadsheet-reference-insertion'. I'm unsure if what you mean is anything like what I mean, here... > > > But all such wishes are not page based, and therefore not based on > > > the page numbering system. > > Doesn't matter; you could identify section headings in the text by > > use of a particular style, or by delimiting them with bookmarks. > But as stated above, such bookmarks are *not* saved in DDL files. At > present. Indeed not. If there's a DDL phase to any of this I'm unsure where it would be at the moment. > > or at least by their site's experts. I was the expert in two places > > and wrote extensive macros for extending what the systems could do. > > To some extent I'm trying to bend applets to do the sort of things I > > used to do in that system. > Sounds very interesting. Let me know so I can eventually use your > ideas/results for the next version of the manual. If I ever get anything to work I will.... > > The only thing I don't yet see how to do (for this sort of thing) is > > how to update text that is in a master-page frame ........... > But the master-page is chapter based. It is maybe possible if the Header > frame is created as to be local and one can introduce a token (as is > done with # for page numbers) to refer to certain position in the main > frame (1st five tokens of a page, etc.) > snip the rest as David Pilling is in a better position to react to this. Yes; my biggest problem in general is trying to find out which areas of OP script / events to dig into first. Oh - and finding time to try it all out too... -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 31 21:46:36 2001 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA151319 for opro ; Thu, 31 May 101 21:46:34 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 991339308:10:11609:65; Thu, 31 May 2001 20:01:48 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1010858; 31 May 2001 20:00 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f4VJxoT12446 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 31 May 2001 20:59:50 +0100 Received: from mserv1a.vianw.co.uk (mserv1a.vianw.co.uk [195.102.240.34]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f4VJxj512443 for ; Thu, 31 May 2001 20:59:45 +0100 Received: from [194.119.179.59] (helo=Caslon.english.co.uk) by mserv1a.vianw.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #5) id 155Ybo-0000KG-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 31 May 2001 20:59:52 +0100 Received: from Gill (10.0.1.1) by Caslon.english.co.uk; Thu, 31 May 2001 20:38:36 +0100 Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 20:38:07 +0100 From: David Graddol To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Assistance with output required! Message-ID: <37fc6e834a%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <4a83654d95charles.hope@argonet.co.uk> X-Organization: The English Company (UK) Ltd X-Mailer: Messenger v1.41d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro "charles.hope" wrote: > On 30 May, David Graddol wrote: > > But PDF is emerging as the key format which will allow us to talk to the > > rest of the prepress and printing industry. The PC/Mac world is now up > > to Acrobat 5, by the way. > > But if created by this version it may not be readable by RiScript. Probably true. RiScript generates PDF 1.2 which equates to Acrobat 3. But it is possible for version 4 or 5 to be set to 'Version 3 compatible'. Incidentally, there is no need for us to suggest that OvPro should acquire a 'save as PDF' function. Such facilities are available on other platforms for Word, Quark, InDesign (even) and seem generally to be frowned upon within the prepress business because they produce bad PDFs. No, the one true way is to generate postscript and then run it through specialist PDF generating software such as Acrobat Distiller. >I'v > ebeen sent files by one Mac user who instits that it is "latest > technology" or nothing. He eventually sent me a 15MB TIF by e-mail. Not > kind! TIFFs are surprisingly common in prepress work and 15MB is quite modest. An EPS may simply turn out to be a packaging for a TIFF. But sending one by email is just silly. People usually send a ZIP disk or burn a CD. David -- The English Company (UK) Ltd http://www.english.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message