From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 1 13:47:02 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94413 for opro ; Sat, 01 May 99 13:47:01 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925560298:20:27099:16; Sat, 01 May 99 12:04:58 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2120240; 1 May 99 12:04 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id MAA29696 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:49:24 +0100 Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA29690 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 12:49:03 +0100 Received: from [158.152.36.33] (helo=beard.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10dYHb-000290-0B for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 1 May 1999 11:50:11 +0000 Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 12:49:25 +0100 (BST) From: Peter Gaunt Subject: Setting H scale from a macro/script To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Somewhat chaotic X-TimeTo2000: 244 days, 12 hours, 10 minutes, 35 seconds X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R I have a need to set the horizontal scale of text from a macro or a script. I can't find any function which will let me do this. Is there one? I thought I'd try using the ddl() function using, say, {scale 0x20000} to set 200% scaling. However, I can't fathom out just what I need to pass to ddl() in order to get it to work; everything I've tried either comes up with errors or just types the entire macro. Any clues gratefully received. -- Pete ==== +44 (0)411 501 757 And how can I believe in God when just last week I got my tongue caught in the roller of an electric typewriter. Woody Allen -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 1 16:40:05 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94430 for opro ; Sat, 01 May 99 16:40:03 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925569855:10:23093:18; Sat, 01 May 99 14:44:15 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1022995; 1 May 99 14:44 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id PAA29894 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 1 May 1999 15:28:43 +0100 Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA29886 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 15:28:18 +0100 Received: from [158.152.9.39] (helo=pilling.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10dalh-000DYb-0B for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 1 May 1999 14:29:25 +0000 Date: Sat, 01 May 99 15:13:14 GMT Message-Id: <94423@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Setting H scale from a macro/script X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >I thought I'd try using the ddl() function using, say, {scale 0x20000} to >set 200% scaling. However, I can't fathom out just what I need to pass to >ddl() in order to get it to work; everything I've tried either comes up with >errors or just types the entire macro. I think its probably easier to set off with a script file that you can double click to run and load into Edit to tweek. One like this; void main(void) { ddl("xx={story {scale 0x20000}}"); } Will set the current scale at the caret. And you can extend it, to write a simple kaboki poem; void main(void) { ddl("xx={story {scale 0x20000} \"bo bo bo\"}"); } Doing these as a macro would mean wrapping them in a pair of { }'s like so; { ddl("xx={story {scale 0x20000} \"bo bo bo\"} "); } David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 1 17:37:39 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94437 for opro ; Sat, 01 May 99 17:37:38 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925575499:20:18851:16; Sat, 01 May 99 16:18:19 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2018763; 1 May 99 16:18 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA30077 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 1 May 1999 16:57:40 +0100 Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA30072 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 16:57:28 +0100 Received: from [158.152.123.49] (helo=retreat.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10dcA3-000Jsw-0B for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 1 May 1999 15:58:39 +0000 Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 16:55:17 +0100 (BST) From: Malcolm Cowell Subject: Re: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc To: Ovation mail list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R On Wed 28 Apr, Brian O'Carroll wrote: > In message > Malcolm Cowell wrote: > > In preparing a hymn book there are numerous occurrences of f space Y such > > as "Of Your will.." and "all You are.." etc when using upper case to refer > > to God or Jesus. When kerned, these are unacceptably close. Occurrences of > > "from Your Holy Word" are OK as the preceding letter has no trailing > > ascenders. > > > > My work-around is to replace the space with a hyphen set to transparent as > > in "Of-Your will.." but is there a more elegant way? And could my method > > give potential problems from the print shop? > > You could define a style with 'H. Scale 150%' and a Scope setting of > 'Selection', then select the space netween the two offending words and apply > this style to it. The effect is to widen the space by 50%. > > If you wish to find where this style has been used in a document you can, > since they are otherwise invisible, temporarily set the background colour of > the style to red. > > Brian. Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. This is my favourite but I found the difficulty of "Select-Adjust" selecting the space meant I often scaled the letters too. However it gave me the idea that it is easy to select the space and the Y and if the "Unkern" style is set to Track 100 in the Text submenu this works a treat. Temporarily putting the background to a colour is a great tip too. Ideas relying on adjusting the FontKerning are surely not sound if I send the OvPro file to a print shop. Am I wrong or wouldn't the printer's own fonts be used, together with the default kerning information. > -- > To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk > with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message > > -- Malcolm Cowell IEng MIIE Python Publishing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 4 19:34:31 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94445 for opro ; Tue, 04 May 99 19:34:30 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925608312:10:11592:16; Sun, 02 May 99 01:25:12 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1124905; 2 May 99 1:25 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id CAA30862 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 2 May 1999 02:07:23 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id CAA30857 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 02:07:10 +0100 Received: from [158.152.36.33] (helo=beard.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10dkk6-0003R3-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sun, 2 May 1999 01:08:26 +0000 Date: Sat, 1 May 1999 23:24:04 +0100 (BST) From: Peter Gaunt Subject: Re: Setting H scale from a macro/script To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <94423@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Somewhat chaotic X-TimeTo2000: 244 days, 1 hour, 35 minutes, 56 seconds X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In on Sat 01 May, David Pilling wrote: > > > >I thought I'd try using the ddl() function using, say, {scale 0x20000} to > >set 200% scaling. However, I can't fathom out just what I need to pass to > >ddl() in order to get it to work; everything I've tried either comes up with > >errors or just types the entire macro. > > I think its probably easier to set off with a script file that you > can double click to run and load into Edit to tweek. > > One like this; > > void main(void) > { > ddl("xx={story {scale 0x20000}}"); > } Thanks David. I hadn't realised I needed the 'xx=' bit. With a bit of playing around that should do what I want it to. -- Pete ==== +44 (0)411 501 757 When I was kidnapped, my parents snapped into action. They rented out my room. - Woody Allen -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 4 19:34:57 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94453 for opro ; Tue, 04 May 99 19:34:55 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925721173:10:01916:16; Mon, 03 May 99 08:46:13 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1125719; 3 May 99 8:46 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id JAA32490 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:02:37 +0100 Received: from snowdrop.csv.warwick.ac.uk (snowdrop.csv.warwick.ac.uk [137.205.192.31]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA32485 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:02:18 +0100 Received: from pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (pansy [137.205.192.19]) by snowdrop.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA02304 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:02:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from bashley (bashley [137.205.186.91]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA15673 for ; Mon, 3 May 1999 09:02:20 +0100 (BST) From: "Nick Kaijaks" To: Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 09:01:42 +0100 Message-ID: <000001be953b$2e76cfa0$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro > In on Thu 29 Apr, Tim King wrote: > > > ;-) Except that just puts an unholy gap between the Y and o > and leaves fY > > unchanged. Adjust the kerning pairs with !FontKern. > > The right answer I think. Apply the kerning to two pairs, f-space and > space-Y otherwise there will appear another problen somewhere else. Agreed. The same occurs with the fW pair. My gut feeling is that OPro demonstrates this more than Impression did, although I've not actually done a proper comparison. It may well be because OPro handles kerning better, and the fonts haven't been kerned as well as they should be. For a good example, try using EFF Griffo (supplied with OPro, isn't it?). Set auto-kerning on and type 'Earl of Warwick, Duke of York'. It's a shame, as EFF metrics are otherwise usually excellent in my experience. Cheers, Nick -- Nick Kaijaks, Pinxit Design - Information Design for Internet and print http://www.kaijaks.co.uk/ mailto:nick@kaijaks.co.uk Disclaimer: caveat internettor -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 4 19:35:05 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94457 for opro ; Tue, 04 May 99 19:35:04 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925577982:20:21351:18; Sat, 01 May 99 16:59:42 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2021160; 1 May 99 16:59 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id RAA30210 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 1 May 1999 17:40:04 +0100 Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA30205 for ; Sat, 1 May 1999 17:39:52 +0100 Received: from [158.152.9.39] (helo=pilling.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10dcp2-000N2Z-0B for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 1 May 1999 16:41:00 +0000 Date: Sat, 01 May 99 17:38:54 GMT Message-Id: <94438@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >I found the difficulty of "Select-Adjust" selecting the space Try the KSelect applet that lets you select text from the keyboard. >Ideas relying on adjusting the FontKerning are surely not sound if I send >the OvPro file to a print shop. Am I wrong or wouldn't the printer's own >fonts be used, together with the default kerning information. Unless you set up the PS printer driver system to download the modified font into the PS file. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 4 19:35:49 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94473 for opro ; Tue, 04 May 99 19:35:48 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925676628:20:20404:18; Sun, 02 May 99 20:23:48 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2106281; 2 May 99 20:23 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id UAA31615 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 2 May 1999 20:59:22 +0100 Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-10.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA31610 for ; Sun, 2 May 1999 20:59:06 +0100 Received: from [212.238.88.19] (helo=dinkla.demon.nl) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10e2Pf-0002ZG-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sun, 2 May 1999 20:00:31 +0000 Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 20:20:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Ernst Dinkla Subject: Re: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <94438@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In on Sat 01 May, David Pilling wrote: > >Ideas relying on adjusting the FontKerning are surely not sound if I send > >the OvPro file to a print shop. Am I wrong or wouldn't the printer's own > >fonts be used, together with the default kerning information. > > Unless you set up the PS printer driver system to download the modified > font into the PS file. Which is always the best way if you want WYSIWYG. The printers font may have a good kerning where your f Y was kerned wrong or the opposite, your kerning is correct and his wrong ;-) Is your f Y kerning the default kerning? Ernst -- Ernst Dinkla Serigrafie,Zeefdruk The point will never be metric -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 4 21:41:56 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94500 for opro ; Tue, 04 May 99 21:41:54 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925843660:10:19822:17; Tue, 04 May 99 18:47:40 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1117987; 4 May 99 18:47 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id TAA01565 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 4 May 1999 19:30:32 +0100 Received: from mailout.access.ch (mailout.access.ch [195.112.71.160]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA01560 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 19:30:15 +0100 Received: from janvredenb.access.ch (megapop9-02.access.ch [195.112.93.130]) by mailout.access.ch (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA15103 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 20:30:17 +0200 Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 20:26:36 +0200 (BST) From: Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc To: OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <000001be953b$2e76cfa0$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: JMvV: tel +41 41 3706124; fax +41 41 3706120 X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Mon 03 May, Nick Kaijaks wrote: > > In on Thu 29 Apr, Tim King wrote: > > > > > ;-) Except that just puts an unholy gap between the Y and o > > and leaves fY > > > unchanged. Adjust the kerning pairs with !FontKern. > > > > The right answer I think. Apply the kerning to two pairs, f-space and > > space-Y otherwise there will appear another problen somewhere else. > > Agreed. > > The same occurs with the fW pair. My gut feeling is that OPro demonstrates > this more than Impression did, although I've not actually done a proper > comparison. It may well be because OPro handles kerning better, and the > fonts haven't been kerned as well as they should be. > > For a good example, try using EFF Griffo (supplied with OPro, isn't it?). > Set auto-kerning on and type 'Earl of Warwick, Duke of York'. It's a shame, > as EFF metrics are otherwise usually excellent in my experience. > > Cheers, > Nick > Who says EFF Griffo has proper kerning? As stated above: Adjust the kerning pairs with !FontKern. I just tried some examples with other fonts. With at times similar results. If the font has no proper kerning, do not consider OPro guilty. When something is wrong, start checking at the beginning. Not at the end. I hope this helps you to find - and solve - your problem. Greetings JohnvV -- JM van Vredenburch; tel +41 41 3706125 | RiscPC (ex-Acorn) Schaedruetihalde 5 fax +41 41 3706120 | Computers CH - 6006 Luzern email janvredenb@access.ch | only :-) .. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 4 21:42:47 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94506 for opro ; Tue, 04 May 99 21:42:46 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925844626:20:11617:18; Tue, 04 May 99 19:03:46 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2011470; 4 May 99 19:03 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id TAA01632 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 4 May 1999 19:44:32 +0100 Received: from alpha.netvision.net.il (alpha.netvision.net.il [194.90.1.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA01626 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 19:44:17 +0100 Received: from netvision.net.il (IDENT:mybg@RAS2-p27.jlm.netvision.net.il [62.0.161.155]) by alpha.netvision.net.il (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA04721 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 21:44:37 +0300 (IDT) Message-ID: <372F4055.63A31B34@netvision.net.il> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 21:45:41 +0300 From: Michael Ben-Gershon Organization: My Office X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.7 i686) X-Accept-Language: en-GB, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch wrote: > > On Mon 03 May, Nick Kaijaks wrote: > > > In on Thu 29 Apr, Tim King wrote: > > > > > > > ;-) Except that just puts an unholy gap between the Y and o > > > and leaves fY > > > > unchanged. Adjust the kerning pairs with !FontKern. > > > > > > The right answer I think. Apply the kerning to two pairs, f-space and > > > space-Y otherwise there will appear another problen somewhere else. > > > > Agreed. > > > > The same occurs with the fW pair. My gut feeling is that OPro demonstrates > > this more than Impression did, although I've not actually done a proper > > comparison. It may well be because OPro handles kerning better, and the > > fonts haven't been kerned as well as they should be. > > > > For a good example, try using EFF Griffo (supplied with OPro, isn't it?). > > Set auto-kerning on and type 'Earl of Warwick, Duke of York'. It's a shame, > > as EFF metrics are otherwise usually excellent in my experience. > > > > Cheers, > > Nick > > > > Who says EFF Griffo has proper kerning? > As stated above: Adjust the kerning pairs with !FontKern. > > I just tried some examples with other fonts. With at times similar results. > If the font has no proper kerning, do not consider OPro guilty. When > something is wrong, start checking at the beginning. Not at the end. I agree. For example, the above text is mis-kerned both in Impression Publisher and Ovation Pro. However, using Monotype Baskerville (a wonderful font ...) from Adrian Look, the results in both Impression and OPro are perfect. Michael Ben-Gershon mybg@netvision.net.il -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 4 21:43:27 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94509 for opro ; Tue, 04 May 99 21:43:25 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925848954:20:16176:17; Tue, 04 May 99 20:15:54 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2016157; 4 May 99 20:15 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id VAA01845 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 4 May 1999 21:00:51 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA01840 for ; Tue, 4 May 1999 21:00:39 +0100 Received: from [158.152.123.49] (helo=retreat.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10elNF-0006dg-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 4 May 1999 20:01:02 +0000 Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 20:58:36 +0100 (BST) From: Malcolm Cowell Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc To: Ovation mail list In-Reply-To: <000001be953b$2e76cfa0$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Mon 03 May, Nick Kaijaks wrote: > > In on Thu 29 Apr, Tim King wrote: > > > > > ;-) Except that just puts an unholy gap between the Y and o > > and leaves fY > > > unchanged. Adjust the kerning pairs with !FontKern. > > > > The right answer I think. Apply the kerning to two pairs, f-space and > > space-Y otherwise there will appear another problen somewhere else. > > Agreed. > > The same occurs with the fW pair. My gut feeling is that OPro demonstrates > this more than Impression did, although I've not actually done a proper > comparison. It may well be because OPro handles kerning better, and the > fonts haven't been kerned as well as they should be. > > For a good example, try using EFF Griffo (supplied with OPro, isn't it?). > Set auto-kerning on and type 'Earl of Warwick, Duke of York'. It's a shame, > as EFF metrics are otherwise usually excellent in my experience. > The effect is noticable in EFF Classic with the above examples and with Group of Volunteers (say). Thanks for confirming it is not just me being picky. On Sun 02 May, Ernst Dinkla wrote: > In on Sat 01 May, David Pilling wrote: > > > >Ideas relying on adjusting the FontKerning are surely not sound if I send > > >the OvPro file to a print shop. Am I wrong or wouldn't the printer's own > > >fonts be used, together with the default kerning information. > > > > Unless you set up the PS printer driver system to download the modified > > font into the PS file. > > Which is always the best way if you want WYSIWYG. The printers font may > have a good kerning where your f Y was kerned wrong or the opposite, > your kerning is correct and his wrong ;-) > Is your f Y kerning the default kerning? > > Ernst Yes I see the point if Postscript files are being sent. I can tinker with my fonts and send the result of the tinkering, downloaded. But I am sending the OvPro file itself to a RISCOS friendly printer who will provide the default font which is LOOKsystems Monotype Plantin. Hence I will stick with my special "Unkerning" style and apply it by hand on the few occasions it is needed. (Outlined in a previous message to the list.) Thanks to everyone for comments. -- Malcolm Cowell IEng MIIE Python Publishing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 5 13:58:36 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94543 for opro ; Wed, 05 May 99 13:58:33 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925892106:10:05039:16; Wed, 05 May 99 08:15:06 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1105296; 5 May 99 8:14 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id JAA02377 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 5 May 1999 09:00:32 +0100 Received: from daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk [137.205.192.30]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA02372 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 09:00:17 +0100 Received: from pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (pansy [137.205.192.19]) by daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA22044 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 09:00:46 +0100 (BST) Received: from bashley (bashley [137.205.186.91]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA02855 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 09:00:45 +0100 (BST) From: "Nick Kaijaks" To: Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 08:59:57 +0100 Message-ID: <000001be96cd$445f9750$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro > On Mon 03 May, Nick Kaijaks wrote: >> comparison. It may well be because OPro handles kerning better, and the >> fonts haven't been kerned as well as they should be. >> >> For a good example, try using EFF Griffo (supplied with OPro, isn't it?). >> Set auto-kerning on and type 'Earl of Warwick, Duke of York'. >> It's a shame, as EFF metrics are otherwise usually excellent > Who says EFF Griffo has proper kerning? Define "proper". Besides, I didn't, if you read what I said properly... > As stated above: Adjust the kerning pairs with !FontKern. I have. However, if you have a large font family then it's non-trivial to adjust the kerning throughout. If I must repeat myself, then my point was that it's a shame that Griffo doesn't appear to have been as carefully kerned as some other faces. EFF are usually better than most foundries. Note I made no mention of Monotype... > I just tried some examples with other fonts. With at times > similar results. > If the font has no proper kerning, do not consider OPro guilty. When > something is wrong, start checking at the beginning. Not at the end. "No proper kerning" is a bit of a loose phrase to fire off. Griffo *has* got kerning, which seems fine for most pairs, but not for these ones. The results for fW and fY are in fact much better with kerning turned off. I say nothing about OPro except that I notice mis-kerning more readily than I recall in Impression. This is not meant to be a slur on OPro. Cheers, Nick -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 5 13:59:24 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94553 for opro ; Wed, 05 May 99 13:59:22 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925904592:20:15993:17; Wed, 05 May 99 11:43:12 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2015143; 5 May 99 11:42 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id MAA02626 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:23:38 +0100 Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA02621 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 12:23:25 +0100 Received: from delink.wxs.nl ([195.121.164.144]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 3.61) with SMTP id AAB43EF for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 13:23:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Paul Sprangers To: Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 13:11:06 +0100 Subject: Space before Message-ID: <48fd6e4127delink@news.wxs.nl> User-Agent: Pluto/1.11h (RISC-OS/3.7) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Dear all! For some unsolved reason I didn't receive any OPro mail from April 24 until May 4. So I also didn't receive any answer to a previous question that I posted in that time. I hope, you won't blame me for posting it once more (and ask you to reply once more, sorry!). Here it is: Here's another challenge for script programmers: We all know that a style can be defined with a specified 'Space before'. Now I would like to have an extra option to specify some Space before, UNLESS text containing that style appears at the top position within a frame. In other words: the specified Space before should only affect text, not frame borders. Is it possible to write a simple script to add this option? (I cannot write scripts, so someone else should do it...). Or is there a cunning combination of existing styles that does the job? Very curious about the replies... Kind regards, Paul Sprangers -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 5 15:47:56 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94565 for opro ; Wed, 05 May 99 15:47:55 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925912300:20:16449:16; Wed, 05 May 99 13:51:40 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab2101619; 5 May 99 13:50 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id OAA02815 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 5 May 1999 14:35:50 +0100 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA02810 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 14:35:39 +0100 Received: from [158.152.9.39] (helo=pilling.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10f1qN-000ANr-0C for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 5 May 1999 13:36:12 +0000 Date: Wed, 05 May 99 14:31:26 GMT Message-Id: <94563@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Space before X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >So I also didn't receive any answer to a previous question that I >posted in that time. I hope, you won't blame me for posting it once more Why not look at the archives, as it happens the last monthly update (on www.beebug.com) neatly contains the messages posted after yours, but you could look at; ftp://freenet.barnet.ac.uk/pub/Acorn/mailing-lists/ovationpro/ which should be updated continuously. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 01:31:54 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94607 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 01:31:52 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925945462:10:22455:19; Wed, 05 May 99 23:04:22 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1128266; 5 May 99 23:03 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id XAA03320 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 5 May 1999 23:51:05 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA03315 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 23:50:50 +0100 Received: from [158.152.98.218] (helo=gvine.demon.co.uk) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10fASN-000LYp-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 5 May 1999 22:48:07 +0000 Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:02:20 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Muscat Subject: Downloading fonts to PS file (was Unwanted kerning of f Y etc) To: Ovation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Sun 02 May, Ernst Dinkla wrote: > In on Sat 01 May, David Pilling wrote: > > > >Ideas relying on adjusting the FontKerning are surely not sound if I send > > >the OvPro file to a print shop. Am I wrong or wouldn't the printer's own > > >fonts be used, together with the default kerning information. > > > > Unless you set up the PS printer driver system to download the modified > > font into the PS file. > > Which is always the best way if you want WYSIWYG. I'm glad you have comfirmed this method of working, Ernst, which I always use, even for very common fonts. Although, someone here suggested that the quality of the print might slightly degrade when downloading fonts. I would be surprised if it did. Can you comment on this? -- Alan Muscat Grapevine Digital Arts email: alan@gvine.demon.co.uk Choose Acorn - 12 users can't all be wrong -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 01:31:59 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94609 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 01:31:56 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925946389:10:07796:16; Wed, 05 May 99 23:19:49 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1007315; 5 May 99 23:18 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id XAA03327 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 5 May 1999 23:52:06 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA03322 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 23:51:51 +0100 Received: from [158.152.98.218] (helo=gvine.demon.co.uk) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10fAWP-000M0Y-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 5 May 1999 22:52:17 +0000 Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 20:02:20 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Muscat Subject: Downloading fonts to PS file (was Unwanted kerning of f Y etc) To: Ovation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Sun 02 May, Ernst Dinkla wrote: > In on Sat 01 May, David Pilling wrote: > > > >Ideas relying on adjusting the FontKerning are surely not sound if I send > > >the OvPro file to a print shop. Am I wrong or wouldn't the printer's own > > >fonts be used, together with the default kerning information. > > > > Unless you set up the PS printer driver system to download the modified > > font into the PS file. > > Which is always the best way if you want WYSIWYG. I'm glad you have comfirmed this method of working, Ernst, which I always use, even for very common fonts. Although, someone here suggested that the quality of the print might slightly degrade when downloading fonts. I would be surprised if it did. Can you comment on this? -- Alan Muscat Grapevine Digital Arts email: alan@gvine.demon.co.uk Choose Acorn - 12 users can't all be wrong -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 01:32:02 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94610 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 01:32:00 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925947264:20:00710:16; Wed, 05 May 99 23:34:24 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2000246; 5 May 99 23:33 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id XAA03340 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 5 May 1999 23:52:36 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA03329 for ; Wed, 5 May 1999 23:52:07 +0100 Received: from [158.152.98.218] (helo=gvine.demon.co.uk) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10fAWj-000M0Y-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 5 May 1999 22:52:35 +0000 Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 19:57:58 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Muscat Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc To: Ovation In-Reply-To: <000001be953b$2e76cfa0$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Mon 03 May, Nick Kaijaks wrote: > > In on Thu 29 Apr, Tim King wrote: > > > > > ;-) Except that just puts an unholy gap between the Y and o > > and leaves fY > > > unchanged. Adjust the kerning pairs with !FontKern. > > > > The right answer I think. Apply the kerning to two pairs, f-space and > > space-Y otherwise there will appear another problen somewhere else. > > Agreed. > > The same occurs with the fW pair. My gut feeling is that OPro demonstrates > this more than Impression did, although I've not actually done a proper > comparison. It may well be because OPro handles kerning better, and the > fonts haven't been kerned as well as they should be. My guess is that Opro does not interfer with letter spacing, unless requested using enhanced justification. I should have thought that it would simply allow the natural kerning built into the font to decided the amount of spacing. -- Alan Muscat Grapevine Digital Arts email: alan@gvine.demon.co.uk Choose Acorn - 12 users can't all be wrong -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 13:35:35 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94620 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 13:35:30 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925988275:10:17499:20; Thu, 06 May 99 10:57:55 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1114045; 6 May 99 10:56 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id LAA04414 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 6 May 1999 11:34:27 +0100 Received: from studict.student.utwente.nl (studict.student.utwente.nl [130.89.220.2]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA04407 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 11:34:06 +0100 Received: from s9302700.inbel.utwente.nl (ut113097.inbel.utwente.nl [130.89.113.97]) by studict.student.utwente.nl (8.8.6/MQT) with SMTP id MAA02848 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 12:34:48 +0200 (METDST) Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 11:21:47 +0200 (BST) From: "m.m.ottens" Subject: OvnPro -> draw To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <199905052252.XAA03344@omega.barnet.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hello, Is it possible to make an applet which gives you the abbility to select an area in your Ovation Pro document and save it as drawfile? (Like techwriter does) It gives you the ability to export ovation files to another platform using CorelXara for example. I'm aware you will loose information like linked frames etc. But for small files like brochures it will help in your compatibility towards the print-shop. Greetings, Maarten -- \/\/\/\ M.M.Ottens /\/\/\/ O'dd - Ottens' dutch designs \/\/\/\ http://www.futuretrain.com/odd /\/\/\/ +31-(0)73-6135050 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 13:36:13 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94624 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 13:36:12 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925980304:20:04812:16; Thu, 06 May 99 08:45:04 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2003813; 6 May 99 8:44 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id JAA04042 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 6 May 1999 09:24:52 +0100 Received: from daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk [137.205.192.30]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA04037 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 09:24:39 +0100 Received: from pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (pansy [137.205.192.19]) by daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA19878 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 09:25:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from bashley (bashley [137.205.186.91]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA14702 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 09:25:20 +0100 (BST) From: "Nick Kaijaks" To: Subject: RE: Downloading fonts to PS file (was Unwanted kerning of f Y etc) Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 09:24:40 +0100 Message-ID: <000201be9799$e329f200$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Alan wrote: > I'm glad you have comfirmed this method of working, Ernst, which > I always use, even for very common fonts. Although, someone here > suggested that the quality of the print might slightly degrade > when downloading fonts. I would be surprised if it did. Can you > comment on this? The only reason might be a result of converting from an Acorn font to a PostScript Type 3 font. Unlike Acorn fonts, these don't use hinting, which could result in a quality degradation on lower-res output devices. It would be unlikely to make much difference on 600dpi printers except at tiny point sizes and would be quite negligible on imagesetters. If you have a Type 1 font saved in the Acorn font directory (either kept whilst converting with!T1ToFont, or bought as one of EFF's 'Publisher' variants), then that'll be downloaded instead and you can be sure that there will be *no* degradation in the glyph quality. Cheers, Nick -- Nick Kaijaks, Pinxit Design - Information Design for Internet and print http://www.kaijaks.co.uk/ mailto:nick@kaijaks.co.uk Disclaimer: caveat internettor -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 13:36:19 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94626 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 13:36:17 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925986109:20:29124:18; Thu, 06 May 99 10:21:49 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2112925; 6 May 99 10:21 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA04201 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:59:39 +0100 Received: from mail-relay.power.net.uk (mail-relay.power.net.uk [195.60.31.17]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA04196 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:59:23 +0100 Received: from english.powernet.co.uk (natcust24.powernet.co.uk [195.60.5.24]) by mail-relay.power.net.uk (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA18716 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 10:56:29 +0100 (GMT/BST) Received: from catchline (10.0.1.1) by Caslon.english.co.uk; Thu, 06 May 1999 10:34:23 +0100 Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 10:35:34 +0100 From: David Graddol To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: RE: Downloading fonts to PS file (was Unwanted kerning of f Y etc) Message-ID: <1bdae3fd48%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <000201be9799$e329f200$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> X-Organization: The English Company (UK) Ltd X-Mailer: Messenger v1.40d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro > Alan Muscat wrote: > > > I'm glad you have comfirmed this method of working, Ernst, which > > I always use, even for very common fonts. Although, someone here > > suggested that the quality of the print might slightly degrade > > when downloading fonts. I would be surprised if it did. Can you > > comment on this? Nick Kaijaks wrote: > The only reason might be a result of converting from an Acorn font to > a PostScript Type 3 font. Unlike Acorn fonts, these don't use hinting, > which could result in a quality degradation on lower-res output devices. > It would be unlikely to make much difference on 600dpi printers except > at tiny point sizes and would be quite negligible on imagesetters. I find that there is a thickening of characters at 600 dpi at normal text sizes, which makes the font look slightly emboldened. This is not necessarily a problem, unless you are already using several contrasting weights of the same font (light, semibold etc). However, if you ever intend the files to be viewed on screen (and we increasingly need to prepare Acrobat PDF files) then Type 3 fonts are a disaster. We now avoid the use of any font which we do not have in Type 1 format because sure enough there will be a problem further down the line when we find we need to something else with the same files. David -- The English Company (UK) Ltd http://www.english.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 13:36:28 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94627 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 13:36:26 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925986735:20:10263:18; Thu, 06 May 99 10:32:15 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2100262; 6 May 99 10:32 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id LAA04265 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 6 May 1999 11:11:56 +0100 Received: from romeo.ic.ac.uk (romeo.ic.ac.uk [155.198.5.9]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA04260 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 11:11:44 +0100 Received: from juliet.ic.ac.uk [155.198.5.4] by romeo.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #1) id 10fL8k-00047w-00; Thu, 6 May 1999 11:12:26 +0100 Received: from icex6.cc.ic.ac.uk ([155.198.3.6]) by juliet.ic.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10fM3v-0005qO-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 6 May 1999 11:11:31 +0000 Received: by icex6.cc.ic.ac.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 6 May 1999 11:12:25 +0100 Message-ID: <773CDF6F1D26D211B0B300A0C9D85B260145F22B@icex6.cc.ic.ac.uk> From: "Reeves-Hall, Peter C." To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Offtopic but desperate! Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 11:12:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hi all, Everyone here seems a friendly, helpful bunch (yes I want somethng!) I've been really stupid - I've brought some Artworks files into work to load into CorelXara 2 only to find it only supports artworks eps files (!).... (I'm sure Version 1 supported .art files...) I need to give the drawings to a fiend today in a PC format today (she's handing in corse work tommorrow and I've done the illustrations for her). so was hoping (pretty please) if someone could convert them to artworks eps for me (or I have a 2 hour journey ahead of me (why can't we use acorns around here?!...). There are a dozen files and ziped they are 157Kb total. I/we would be very grateful if anyone could help, Thanks, Peter -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 17:19:47 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94642 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 17:19:44 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 925996353:10:10267:19; Thu, 06 May 99 13:12:33 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1010184; 6 May 99 13:12 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id NAA04701 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 6 May 1999 13:36:55 +0100 Received: from mail.span.ch (mail.span.ch [194.51.197.241]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA04696 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 13:36:40 +0100 Received: from tech ([195.15.70.8]) by mail.span.ch (8.9.2/(Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service 5.5.1960.3)) with SMTP id OAA08989 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 14:37:23 +0200 (MET) Message-ID: <002f01be97bc$6499cf00$08460fc3@tech> From: "richard" To: Subject: Re: Offtopic but desperate! Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 14:22:00 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by omega.barnet.ac.uk id NAB04701 -----Message d'origine----- De : Reeves-Hall, Peter C. =C0 : ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date : jeudi 6 mai 1999 12:45 Objet : Offtopic but desperate! >Hi all, Could do it tonight if thats not too late? Regards Richard -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 17:20:23 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94645 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 17:20:22 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926007088:10:01356:60; Thu, 06 May 99 16:11:28 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1001506; 6 May 99 16:11 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA04923 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 6 May 1999 16:37:53 +0100 Received: from romeo.ic.ac.uk (romeo.ic.ac.uk [155.198.5.9]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA04917 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 16:37:37 +0100 Received: from juliet.ic.ac.uk [155.198.5.4] by romeo.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #1) id 10fQEB-0002qM-00; Thu, 6 May 1999 16:38:23 +0100 Received: from icex6.cc.ic.ac.uk ([155.198.3.6]) by juliet.ic.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10fR9N-0006mY-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 6 May 1999 16:37:29 +0000 Received: by icex6.cc.ic.ac.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 6 May 1999 16:38:21 +0100 Message-ID: <773CDF6F1D26D211B0B300A0C9D85B260145F232@icex6.cc.ic.ac.uk> From: "Reeves-Hall, Peter C." To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: artworks help Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 16:38:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hi all, A big thanks to everyone who e-mail to offer their services, (and a big thanks to Liam Gretton for doing the conversion). It's nice to be an Acorn user. Sorry about the delay in replying but our network has een up and down like a yo-yo (PC's eh?) all the best, Peter -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 18:28:55 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94653 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 18:28:53 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926008308:10:20676:16; Thu, 06 May 99 16:31:48 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1108536; 6 May 99 16:31 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id RAA04985 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:03:03 +0100 Received: from linteuto.teuto.de (linteuto.teuto.de [194.77.23.26]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA04969 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:02:31 +0100 Received: from 212.8.202.178 (shelley.ucs.de [212.8.202.178]) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA32490 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 18:03:10 +0200 Message-Id: <199905061603.SAA32490@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: 06 May 1999 09:07:12 GMT Subject: Re: Downloading fonts to PS file (was Unwanted kerning of f Y etc) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In your earlier message you wrote: >On Sun 02 May, Ernst Dinkla wrote: >> In on Sat 01 May, David Pilling wrote: >> >> > >Ideas relying on adjusting the FontKerning are surely not sound if I send >> > >the OvPro file to a print shop. Am I wrong or wouldn't the printer's own >> > >fonts be used, together with the default kerning information. >> > >> > Unless you set up the PS printer driver system to download the modified >> > font into the PS file. >> >> Which is always the best way if you want WYSIWYG. > >I'm glad you have comfirmed this method of working, Ernst, which >I always use, even for very common fonts. Although, someone here >suggested that the quality of the print might slightly degrade >when downloading fonts. I would be surprised if it did. Can you >comment on this? > The quality of fonts is not at all affected by downloading. Guess You remember someone mentioning that GhostScript will turn download-fonts into (ugly) bitmaps when converting PS -> PDF. Kind regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 18:28:58 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94654 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 18:28:56 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926009044:10:01560:20; Thu, 06 May 99 16:44:04 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1106719; 6 May 99 16:43 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id RAA04984 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:03:00 +0100 Received: from linteuto.teuto.de (dns1.teuto.net [194.77.23.26]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA04968 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:02:30 +0100 Received: from 212.8.202.178 (shelley.ucs.de [212.8.202.178]) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA32505 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 18:03:13 +0200 Message-Id: <199905061603.SAA32505@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: 06 May 1999 09:50:22 GMT Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In your earlier message you wrote: >On Mon 03 May, Nick Kaijaks wrote: >> > In on Thu 29 Apr, Tim King wrote: >> > >> > > ;-) Except that just puts an unholy gap between the Y and o >> > and leaves fY >> > > unchanged. Adjust the kerning pairs with !FontKern. >> > >> > The right answer I think. Apply the kerning to two pairs, f-space and >> > space-Y otherwise there will appear another problen somewhere else. >> >> Agreed. >> >> The same occurs with the fW pair. My gut feeling is that OPro demonstrates >> this more than Impression did, although I've not actually done a proper >> comparison. It may well be because OPro handles kerning better, and the >> fonts haven't been kerned as well as they should be. > Way, way, way is anybody really expecting "fW" or "fY" to kern 'correctly' on the fly ? Talking about kerning we straddle three domains: 1. Proper Software, regarding fonts and processor. You may expect "Yo" to kern correctly here (use OP's "Auto kerning" option). 2. Handicraft, yes, on my planet good kerning is a matter of work. 3. Art, really good kerning is an art, believe me. >My guess is that Opro does not interfer with letter spacing, unless >requested using enhanced justification. I should have thought that it >would simply allow the natural kerning built into the font to decided >the amount of spacing. > From reading the docs I'd say if "Auto kerning" is switched on OP will use kerning information (provided the font has it), otherwise it will use the bounding boxes (now why does the top of an "f" cross its bounding box, think about it...). "Enhanced justification" is to do with beautifying fully aligned blocks of text. It is generally a nice option but may require careful tweaking (as does everything this thread is about). Kind regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 6 18:29:00 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94655 for opro ; Thu, 06 May 99 18:28:59 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926009378:10:08757:17; Thu, 06 May 99 16:49:38 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1008705; 6 May 99 16:49 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id RAA05159 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:32:48 +0100 Received: from linteuto.teuto.de (dns1.teuto.net [194.77.23.26]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA04976 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 17:02:37 +0100 Received: from 212.8.202.178 (shelley.ucs.de [212.8.202.178]) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA32526 for ; Thu, 6 May 1999 18:03:17 +0200 Message-Id: <199905061603.SAA32526@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: 06 May 1999 14:29:19 GMT Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In your earlier message you wrote: [snip] >> this more than Impression did, although I've not actually done a proper >> comparison. It may well be because OPro handles kerning better, and the Flame me to death for wasting 22k bandwidth but here is the comparison we have been missing. Kind regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme ***--- cut here ---*** It said, so I did... As far as I can see the results are identical? My comment on all this would be that OPro and probably Impression, just set a flag for RISC OS when they want a line of text auto kerned. Given that everything else is equal - same font manager, no extra kerning added by hand, then results should be the same. And BTW Martin you've not upgraded your copy of SparkFS... 1.34 now available from my web site. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 7 13:47:51 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94688 for opro ; Fri, 07 May 99 13:47:50 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926054635:10:15180:16; Fri, 07 May 99 05:23:55 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1112219; 7 May 99 5:23 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id GAA05906 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 7 May 1999 06:04:34 +0100 Received: from zinc.singnet.com.sg (zinc.singnet.com.sg [165.21.7.31]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id GAA05901 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 06:04:19 +0100 Received: from revilo.singnet.com.sg (qtas1413.singnet.com.sg [165.21.52.83]) by zinc.singnet.com.sg (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA23918 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 13:04:59 +0800 (SGT) Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 13:01:57 +0000 (GMT) From: Ian Oliver Subject: Re: Offtopic but desperate! To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <773CDF6F1D26D211B0B300A0C9D85B260145F22B@icex6.cc.ic.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Ian Oliver, (65) 468-0760. X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro > I've been really stupid - I've brought some Artworks files into work to load > into CorelXara 2 only to find it only supports artworks eps files (!).... > (I'm sure Version 1 supported .art files...) If you're still desperate, and get this before I have to go back to work, bung me a thingy and I'll fiddle it about a bit. Gong Xi Fat Choi. Or something. -- Ian Oliver http://members.easyspace.com/toucan/Index.html -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 7 13:47:58 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94691 for opro ; Fri, 07 May 99 13:47:56 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926070541:10:01954:18; Fri, 07 May 99 09:49:01 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1114037; 7 May 99 9:48 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA06277 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:28:24 +0100 Received: from romeo.ic.ac.uk (romeo.ic.ac.uk [155.198.5.9]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA06272 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:28:11 +0100 Received: from juliet.ic.ac.uk [155.198.5.4] by romeo.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 1.62 #1) id 10fgwM-0006sI-00; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:29:06 +0100 Received: from icex6.cc.ic.ac.uk ([155.198.3.6]) by juliet.ic.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10fhrY-0005PJ-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:28:12 +0000 Received: by icex6.cc.ic.ac.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:29:05 +0100 Message-ID: <773CDF6F1D26D211B0B300A0C9D85B260145F23C@icex6.cc.ic.ac.uk> From: "Reeves-Hall, Peter C." To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: artworks conversion - sorted! Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 10:29:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro [REEVES-HALL, PC] Hi all, A big thanks to everyone who e-mail to offer their services, (and a big thanks to Liam Gretton for doing the conversion). It's nice to be an Acorn user. Sorry about the delay in replying but our network has been up and down like a yo-yo (PC's eh?) all the best, Peter -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 7 13:48:01 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94692 for opro ; Fri, 07 May 99 13:48:00 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926055662:20:22390:16; Fri, 07 May 99 05:41:02 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2022111; 7 May 99 5:40 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id GAA05990 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 7 May 1999 06:27:50 +0100 Received: from smtp3.xs4all.nl (smtp3.xs4all.nl [194.109.6.53]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id GAA05985 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 06:27:38 +0100 Received: from ecdbv.xs4all.nl (dc2-modem897.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.131.129]) by smtp3.xs4all.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA20022; Fri, 7 May 1999 07:28:25 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 07:28:22 +0100 (BST) From: Andr van den Berg Subject: Mail them To: revilo@singnet.com.sg cc: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hello, Mail one file to test to us; I think we can cope with it. Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards, Andre van den Berg ECD Computers Automatisering / Detachering Patrijsweg 16 2289 EX Rijswijk / The Netherlands Tel. +31(0)70 319 4343 Fax: +31(0)70 319 4963 VATNo: NL009507590B01 ACORN E-mail : ecdbv@xs4all.nl ECD E-mail : avb@ecd.nl PC E-mail : info@ecd.nl Detachering E-mail: detachering@ecd.nl Homepage : http://www.ecd.nl -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 7 13:48:13 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94696 for opro ; Fri, 07 May 99 13:48:10 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926071949:20:08531:26; Fri, 07 May 99 10:12:29 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2008505; 7 May 99 10:12 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA06360 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:55:01 +0100 Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-10.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA06353 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 10:54:48 +0100 Received: from [212.238.88.19] (helo=dinkla.demon.nl) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10fhM1-0005mJ-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 7 May 1999 09:55:37 +0000 Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 10:31:01 +0000 (GMT) From: Ernst Dinkla Subject: RE: Downloading fonts to PS file (was Unwanted kerning of f Y etc) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <1bdae3fd48%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In on Thu 06 May, David Graddol wrote: > > > Alan Muscat wrote: > > > > > I'm glad you have comfirmed this method of working, Ernst, which > > > I always use, even for very common fonts. Although, someone here > > > suggested that the quality of the print might slightly degrade > > > when downloading fonts. I would be surprised if it did. Can you > > > comment on this? > > > Nick Kaijaks wrote: > > > The only reason might be a result of converting from an Acorn font to > > a PostScript Type 3 font. Unlike Acorn fonts, these don't use hinting, > > which could result in a quality degradation on lower-res output devices. > > It would be unlikely to make much difference on 600dpi printers except > > at tiny point sizes and would be quite negligible on imagesetters. > > I find that there is a thickening of characters at 600 dpi at > normal text sizes, which makes the font look slightly emboldened. > This is not necessarily a problem, unless you are already using > several contrasting weights of the same font (light, semibold > etc). > > However, if you ever intend the files to be viewed on screen > (and we increasingly need to prepare Acrobat PDF files) then Type 3 > fonts are a disaster. We now avoid the use of any font which we > do not have in Type 1 format because sure enough there will be a > problem further down the line when we find we need to something > else with the same files. I try to keep the Type1 of converted fonts. But on the other hand one doesn't get a proper RO font (skeletons, scaffolds) from converted Type1s. Less of a problem with the 19" monitor now, and no problem for 1680 or more dpi imagesetters. And you need a kerning program for the Type1 as well In general the fonts you get on the Bitstream CDs and similar foundries CDs have good kerning, most of the kerning problems are a result of fonts one gets through unofficial channels. People like to adjust their fonts to their own taste but that may not be my taste. And also saving from FontEd will be without kerning! Most of the time I do not need much text, being a silkscreen printer text isn't my bread. But the text I use is large so bad kerning is far more visible. If the font isn't used often and not properly kerned I will adjust it in the text and not in the font. The more often used fonts have got some kerning treatment. That brings me to another point, most kerning software allows you to kern only two characters. In text far more characters play a role. Several years ago I asked Jacques Haubrich to write a kind of kerner that would use an Impression text format with the hand kerning in it to adjust the kerning information of a font. He did that based on an earlier program he wrote that gave some important information from a font in a readable format. So you have an Impression document in a specific font, you hand kern the text in the document where it seems wrong, save it as text and that is used to adjust the font. This is a far more natural approach than kerning the font in pairs outside a text. Due to the nice anti-aliasing of RiscOs you must be aware that your small text will be shifted a bit when rendered, so check the text at several sizes and make a printout before you definitely kern your text. There were some bugs in the software that I couldn't locate so I don't use it anymore and as said text isn't my bread. It has no WIMP and works in a RAM disc. If someone is interested I can send it. Might be worth an overhaul and an adaptation to Ovation Pro if possible. Fonts in PDF are a problem on more platforms than RO. One of the reasons NikNak of 5D is better than Acrobat Distiller is that it handles TrueType and Type1 better in the end product. That next to keeping the hyper text links better and all that at a far lower price. Windows though. Acrobat Distiller 4.0 may become better. Ernst -- Ernst Dinkla Serigrafie,Zeefdruk The point will never be metric -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 7 14:34:53 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94713 for opro ; Fri, 07 May 99 14:34:51 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926083772:10:05266:28; Fri, 07 May 99 13:29:32 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1105088; 7 May 99 13:29 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id OAA06652 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 7 May 1999 14:04:36 +0100 Received: from linteuto.teuto.de (linteuto.teuto.de [194.77.23.26]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA06647 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 14:04:22 +0100 Received: from 212.8.202.178 (shelley.ucs.de [212.8.202.178]) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA31091 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 15:05:15 +0200 Message-Id: <199905071305.PAA31091@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: 07 May 1999 11:30:59 GMT Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In your earlier message you wrote: >In your earlier message you wrote: [snip] >As far as I can see the results are identical? > The same with me. OP's option "Auto kerning" and Imp's "Automatic kerning" were on and seem to be doing the same. >My comment on all this would be that OPro and probably Impression, >just set a flag for RISC OS when they want a line of text auto kerned. >Given that everything else is equal - same font manager, no extra >kerning added by hand, then results should be the same. > To me OP gets kerning absolutely right, although this means mostly that it does not get in the way. Remember Imp moving decimal tabs all over the place if kerning was applied somwhere on the line ? >And BTW Martin you've not upgraded your copy of SparkFS... 1.34 now available >from my web site. > Huh, somebody installed a WebCam over my shoulder ? And I felt good having risen from 1.28(?) to 1.32 just a few weeks back... Thanks for the hint. Kind regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 7 19:02:31 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94726 for opro ; Fri, 07 May 99 19:02:29 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926094316:10:04092:17; Fri, 07 May 99 16:25:16 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1116768; 7 May 99 16:24 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id RAA06857 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 7 May 1999 17:05:01 +0100 Received: from linteuto.teuto.de (linteuto.teuto.de [194.77.23.26]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA06852 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 17:04:49 +0100 Received: from 212.8.202.178 (shelley.ucs.de [212.8.202.178]) by linteuto.teuto.de (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA08583 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 18:05:46 +0200 Message-Id: <199905071605.SAA08583@linteuto.teuto.de> From: Martin Vethake To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: 07 May 1999 16:02:13 GMT Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Mailer: InterTalk Client 2.65 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In your earlier message you wrote: >In your earlier message you wrote: [snip] >As far as I can see the results are identical? > The same with me. OP's option "Auto kerning" and Imp's "Automatic kerning" were on and seem to be doing the same. >My comment on all this would be that OPro and probably Impression, >just set a flag for RISC OS when they want a line of text auto kerned. >Given that everything else is equal - same font manager, no extra >kerning added by hand, then results should be the same. > To me OP gets kerning absolutely right, although this means mostly that it does not get in the way. Remember Imp moving decimal tabs all over the place if kerning was applied somwhere on the line ? >And BTW Martin you've not upgraded your copy of SparkFS... 1.34 now available >from my web site. > Huh, somebody installed a WebCam over my shoulder ? And I felt good having risen from 1.28(?) to 1.32 just a few weeks back... Thanks for the hint. Kind regards Martin Vethake Uffenkamp Computer Systeme snailmail: Uffenkamp Computer Systeme Gartenstr. 3 D-32130 Enger-Dreyen email : martinv@ucs.de web : http://www.ucs.de/ voice : +49-5224-978075 fax : +49-5224-978076 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 7 22:44:51 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94745 for opro ; Fri, 07 May 99 22:44:48 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926108474:10:13644:17; Fri, 07 May 99 20:21:14 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1013560; 7 May 99 20:21 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id UAA07051 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 7 May 1999 20:51:06 +0100 Received: from mailout.access.ch (mailout.access.ch [195.112.71.160]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA07046 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 20:50:53 +0100 Received: from janvredenb.access.ch (megapop2-52.access.ch [195.112.73.52]) by mailout.access.ch (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA03204; Fri, 7 May 1999 21:51:50 +0200 Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 21:55:42 +0200 (BST) From: Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch Subject: Re: Space before To: OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: <782143fa48%Support@Gill.english.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: JMvV: tel +41 41 3706124; fax +41 41 3706120 X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Thu 29 Apr, David Graddol wrote: > Alan Muscat wrote: > > > On Wed 28 Apr, David Graddol wrote: > > > Tony van der Hoff wrote: > > > etc., etc., etc. Snip a lot Dear All, Having followed the discussion of the wanted non existing -extra- space at the beginning of a new page, I start wondering whether it is wished that OP does *not* function/behave in a logical way. If I understand OP correctly, all text is frame based. Meaning that any text is positioned according to what precedes. Be this a line of text or the beginning of a frame, including the main frame. So if you format your base text with a preceding space, the very 1st line will have this extra space. Even on the very first page at the top line!! Actually what you are asking for is a contradiction to what you program the text format to do. Do not forget the automatic text overflow function from page to page. There is an easy solution to avoid the extra space in a similar way as printer setters used to do it some 40 years ago. My solution nowadays with OP (and with Ovation 1.42 as well) is as follows. And very easy to implement with OP if you have the !StylePal activated. Create a new style based on the style where you implemented the "space before", with the same name, but with a minus sign at the end. Program this new style to have no 'Space before'. If your page starts with a heading apply this newly created style to it. Which simply means selecting it from the StylePal window. > Although it would be nice if there was more flexibility in OvPro > in handling space around headings, I think the basic problem is > one of maths! Hence my asking whether there was a standard > way of handling such problems which was regarded as good > typographic practice. I do remember how type-setters used to do this some 40 years ago. Very simple by adding or deleting by hand a slab of lead at the beginning of any page concerned. This most certainly was the standard way. For many, many years... Be glad you need not do this anymore with all the risks of lead poisoning. Greetings JohnvV -- JM van Vredenburch tel +41 41 3706125 | RiscPC (ex-Acorn) Schaedruetihalde 5 fax +41 41 3706120 | Computers CH - 6006 Luzern email janvredenb@access.ch | only :-) .. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 7 22:44:57 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94748 for opro ; Fri, 07 May 99 22:44:55 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926111584:20:29409:16; Fri, 07 May 99 21:13:04 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2028886; 7 May 99 21:12 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id UAA07095 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 7 May 1999 20:56:15 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA07090 for ; Fri, 7 May 1999 20:56:05 +0100 Received: from [158.152.9.39] (helo=pilling.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10fqk5-0000Nt-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 7 May 1999 19:57:05 +0000 Date: Fri, 07 May 99 19:16:22 GMT Message-Id: <94733@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >>And BTW Martin you've not upgraded your copy of SparkFS... 1.34 now available >>from my web site. > Huh, somebody installed a WebCam over my shoulder ? And I felt >good having risen from 1.28(?) to 1.32 just a few weeks back... By the format of your uucode I guessed which version of software you have... David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 8 14:07:33 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94763 for opro ; Sat, 08 May 99 14:07:32 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926160289:20:11266:16; Sat, 08 May 99 10:44:49 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2011219; 8 May 99 10:44 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id LAA07855 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 8 May 1999 11:30:32 +0100 Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA07850 for ; Sat, 8 May 1999 11:30:18 +0100 Received: from [158.152.98.218] (helo=gvine.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10g4G8-000I3D-0B for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 8 May 1999 10:27:04 +0000 Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 19:51:41 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Muscat Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc To: Ovation In-Reply-To: <000001be96cd$445f9750$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Wed 05 May, Nick Kaijaks wrote: > > > I just tried some examples with other fonts. With at times > > similar results. > > If the font has no proper kerning, do not consider OPro guilty. When > > something is wrong, start checking at the beginning. Not at the end. > > "No proper kerning" is a bit of a loose phrase to fire off. Griffo *has* > got kerning, which seems fine for most pairs, but not for these ones. > The results for fW and fY are in fact much better with kerning turned off. > I say nothing about OPro except that I notice mis-kerning more readily than > I recall in Impression. This is not meant to be a slur on OPro. I too have been bothered by this and so I did a simple little thing that I have been meaning to do for a while, that is, make a comparison using both OP and IP with the particular typeface where I encounter the problem most: Eric Light from EFF. The result: the problem exists in both programs to the same degree. If you have this typeface try having a word that ends in y with a full stop immediately after it, put in a single space, and then begin the next word with a capital T. You will notice that it looks as though there is no space at all. To wit I shall be emailing EFF for an upgrade to this typeface. -- Alan Muscat Grapevine Digital Arts email: alan@gvine.demon.co.uk Choose Acorn - 12 users can't all be wrong -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 19:19:40 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94784 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 19:19:39 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926243427:20:19899:25; Sun, 09 May 99 09:50:27 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2128014; 9 May 99 9:50 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA08982 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:37:50 +0100 Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk (golden.argonet.co.uk [194.131.104.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA08976 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:37:39 +0100 Received: from (193.149.72.249) [193.149.72.249] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 10gQ30-0007gq-00; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:38:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Paul) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sun, 9 May 99 10:39:06 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: Rhyming Dictionary Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hi, Does anyone know if there is such a thing as a Rhyming Dictionary for the RISC PC? I suppose if there is it would be asking too much if it were compatible with Ovation Pro. I'm just lazy really, I get fed up with thumbing through a hard copy version. Paul Hedge -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ paulh@argonet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 19:19:45 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94786 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 19:19:43 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926249540:20:17060:16; Sun, 09 May 99 11:32:20 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2016845; 9 May 99 11:32 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id MAA09162 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 9 May 1999 12:21:29 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA09157 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 12:21:12 +0100 Received: from [158.152.255.214] (helo=g6tsf.demon.co.uk) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10gRfE-000EeB-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sun, 9 May 1999 11:22:32 +0000 Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 12:17:48 +0100 (BST) From: Paul Shayler Subject: !TransRTF problem..... To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Paul's Computer System X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hi All, The only way that I can get !TransRTF to work is via the command line. This is not the way it should work. I have followed the instructions in the release notes, I'm using v1.83 of !TransRTF and OvnPro v2.51. The Filters directory is inside my OvationPro directory. Clicking on the !TransRTF application after opening the Filters directory, then running OvPro and attempting to load RTF files does not work. Any ideas???? -- NO RISC?..........NO FUN!! This message is brought to you by the power of the StrongARM (TM) ACORN SA-RPC using SA-110 processor Paul G6TSF g6tsf@amsat.org -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 19:19:47 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94787 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 19:19:46 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926269906:20:22898:22; Sun, 09 May 99 17:11:46 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2022478; 9 May 99 17:10 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id RAA09504 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 9 May 1999 17:59:39 +0100 Received: from monsoon.mail.pipex.net (monsoon.dial.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id RAA09499 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 17:59:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 27329 invoked from network); 9 May 1999 17:00:22 -0000 Received: from userbf10.uk.uudial.com (HELO gtwywc97@ukgateway.net) (62.188.142.31) by smtp.dial.pipex.com.128.43.158.in-addr.arpa with SMTP; 9 May 1999 17:00:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Dawson To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 13:13:35 +0100 Subject: Re: !TransRTF problem..... Message-ID: <48ff7dd3b0rayd@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Pluto/1.11k (RISC-OS/3.7) POPstar/2.01b12 Organization: MagRay Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article , Paul Shayler wrote: > The only way that I can get !TransRTF to work is via the command line. > This is not the way it should work. I have followed the instructions in > the release notes, I'm using v1.83 of !TransRTF and OvnPro v2.51. The > Filters directory is inside my OvationPro directory. Clicking on the > !TransRTF application after opening the Filters directory, then running > OvPro and attempting to load RTF files does not work. Any ideas???? Have you set the filetype to RTF before dropping them into Ovation Pro? Cheers, Ray D -- ..===================================. | M a g R a y Document Services | Ray Dawson Tel: 0181 864 7208 | the print and braille specialists | rayd@argonet.co.uk '===================================' http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/rayd -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 19:20:01 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94791 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 19:20:00 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926331728:20:19896:16; Mon, 10 May 99 10:22:08 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2019775; 10 May 99 10:22 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA10638 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 10 May 1999 10:45:20 +0100 Received: from serenity.mcc.ac.uk (serenity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.93]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA10633 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 10:45:04 +0100 Received: from lingmell.jb.man.ac.uk ([130.88.24.57]) by serenity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #3) for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk id 10gmcX-000MRT-00; Mon, 10 May 1999 10:45:10 +0100 Message-Id: <20530.199905100945@lingmell.jb.man.ac.uk> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.0.1 12/23/97 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Contents Applet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 10:45:07 +0100 From: Roger Noble Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hi All, Having finally got tired of doing tables of contents by hand, I have produced a much upgraded and bug-fixed version of Jamie Lawrence's original Contents applet. If anyone else out there is interested, it is now on the OP resources site: http://www1.che.hw.ac.uk/~ovpro Cheers, Roger Noble -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 19:20:08 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94794 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 19:20:07 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926337863:20:07851:34; Mon, 10 May 99 12:04:23 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2007392; 10 May 99 12:03 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id MAA10855 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 10 May 1999 12:42:35 +0100 Received: from mutt.eurobell.net (qmailr@mutt.eurobell.net [212.24.65.70]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA10850 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 12:42:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 17846 invoked from network); 10 May 1999 11:52:45 -0000 Received: from 66-045.cr.access.eurobell.co.uk (HELO pebbles.eurobell.co.uk) (212.24.66.45) by mutt.eurobell.net with SMTP; 10 May 1999 11:52:45 -0000 Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 15:10:14 +0000 From: "Brian O'Carroll" To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: I keep crashing v2.50/v2.51 Message-ID: Organization: Pebblesculpt X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60k Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hi. When I do the following Ovation v2.50 & v2.51 sometimes hangs... <> CTRL-right-cursor on last line of document <> DELETE The whole thing then hangs and can only be escaped from using an Alt-break to stop OvationPro. Anyone know why/get the same crash? Brian. -- Brian O'Carroll pebbles@eurobell.co.uk http://www.zynet.co.uk/pebbles -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 19:21:43 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94800 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 19:21:42 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926241580:10:19319:17; Sun, 09 May 99 09:19:40 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1019186; 9 May 99 9:19 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA08868 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:05:54 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA08863 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 10:05:41 +0100 Received: from [158.152.98.218] (helo=gvine.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10gPWp-00055V-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sun, 9 May 1999 09:05:44 +0000 Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 19:51:41 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Muscat Subject: RE: Unwanted kerning of f Y etc To: Ovation In-Reply-To: <000001be96cd$445f9750$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Wed 05 May, Nick Kaijaks wrote: > > > I just tried some examples with other fonts. With at times > > similar results. > > If the font has no proper kerning, do not consider OPro guilty. When > > something is wrong, start checking at the beginning. Not at the end. > > "No proper kerning" is a bit of a loose phrase to fire off. Griffo *has* > got kerning, which seems fine for most pairs, but not for these ones. > The results for fW and fY are in fact much better with kerning turned off. > I say nothing about OPro except that I notice mis-kerning more readily than > I recall in Impression. This is not meant to be a slur on OPro. I too have been bothered by this and so I did a simple little thing that I have been meaning to do for a while, that is, make a comparison using both OP and IP with the particular typeface where I encounter the problem most: Eric Light from EFF. The result: the problem exists in both programs to the same degree. If you have this typeface try having a word that ends in y with a full stop immediately after it, put in a single space, and then begin the next word with a capital T. You will notice that it looks as though there is no space at all. To wit I shall be emailing EFF for an upgrade to this typeface. -- Alan Muscat Grapevine Digital Arts email: alan@gvine.demon.co.uk Choose Acorn - 12 users can't all be wrong -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 19:22:04 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94806 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 19:22:03 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926283753:10:13793:22; Sun, 09 May 99 21:02:33 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id ab1018043; 9 May 99 21:02 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id VAA09804 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 9 May 1999 21:41:56 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk (root@irwell.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.48]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA09799 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 21:41:39 +0100 Received: from Dave..zetnet.co.uk (manr-056.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.43.186]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA17371 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 21:42:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 20:50:55 +0100 Subject: Re: Rhyming Dictionary Message-ID: <48ffa7b24fdavefloyd@zetnet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Pluto/1.11h (RISC-OS/3.7) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article , Paul wrote: > Hi, > Does anyone know if there is such a thing as a Rhyming Dictionary for > the RISC PC? I suppose if there is it would be asking too much if it > were compatible with Ovation Pro. I'm just lazy really, I get fed up > with thumbing through a hard copy version. Not a RISC OS one AFAIK but there is an on-line rhyming dictionary at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dougb/rhyme.html Dave -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 19:22:06 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94807 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 19:22:05 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926286785:10:03003:19; Sun, 09 May 99 21:53:05 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1002970; 9 May 99 21:52 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id WAA09927 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 9 May 1999 22:34:22 +0100 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA09922 for ; Sun, 9 May 1999 22:34:10 +0100 Received: from [158.152.151.91] (helo=krowdrah.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10gbEV-0002Ze-0C for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sun, 9 May 1999 21:35:35 +0000 Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 22:33:18 +0100 (BST) From: P Hutton Subject: Path element message? To: Ovation Pro Support Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Dear All Here is a world first on my computer for this message- I have a file with various draw files, which have taken hours to do. I have not used the file for a month or so now but when I came to look at it this evening, as I scrolled down through it, as I got to page 4 I got an error "Bad Path element"; the window then snaps into the top left hand corner of the screen. When I try dragging out again, it does the same thing- at page 4. I have saved it out as DDL and tried again, but all I go this time was "Draw Verify Failed: CODE 105 at ...." Can anyone shed any light on this, or more importantly tell me how to get round the problem? The document needs to be submitted by the end of the week! MGTIA -- Paul Hutton on an Acorn Risc PC with Strong Arm "Only dead fish go with the flow." Attrib. Sarah Craig -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 19:22:24 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94812 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 19:22:23 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926360249:10:17708:20; Mon, 10 May 99 18:17:29 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1017383; 10 May 99 18:16 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id TAA11310 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:06:04 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA11305 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 19:05:52 +0100 Received: from [158.152.255.214] (helo=g6tsf.demon.co.uk) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10guRF-000B8s-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 10 May 1999 18:06:01 +0000 Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 19:01:53 +0100 (BST) From: Paul Shayler Subject: Re: !TransRTF problem..... To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <48ff7dd3b0rayd@argonet.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Paul's Computer System X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R On Sun 09 May, Ray Dawson wrote: > In article , > Paul Shayler wrote: > > The only way that I can get !TransRTF to work is via the command line. > > This is not the way it should work. I have followed the instructions in > > the release notes, I'm using v1.83 of !TransRTF and OvnPro v2.51. The > > Filters directory is inside my OvationPro directory. Clicking on the > > !TransRTF application after opening the Filters directory, then running > > OvPro and attempting to load RTF files does not work. Any ideas???? > > Have you set the filetype to RTF before dropping them into Ovation Pro? > > Cheers, > Yes, thats one of the first things that looked at. RiscOS gets the filetype ok. All very odd. -- NO RISC?..........NO FUN!! This message is brought to you by the power of the StrongARM (TM) ACORN SA-RPC using SA-110 processor Paul G6TSF g6tsf@amsat.org -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 23:04:40 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94858 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 23:04:39 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926372706:20:01336:17; Mon, 10 May 99 21:45:06 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2001096; 10 May 99 21:44 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id WAA11501 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 10 May 1999 22:30:05 +0100 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA11488 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 22:29:40 +0100 Received: from [158.152.9.39] (helo=pilling.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10gxcV-000MD2-0C for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 10 May 1999 21:29:51 +0000 Date: Mon, 10 May 99 22:26:11 GMT Message-Id: <94840@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: !TransRTF problem..... X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >The only way that I can get !TransRTF to work is via the command line. >This is not the way it should work. I suppose there are 2 ways of loading RTF,drag to the icon bar icon, and drag into a document. What you've not told us, is what does happen when you try to load RTF? David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 10 23:04:41 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94859 for opro ; Mon, 10 May 99 23:04:39 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926372431:10:10440:18; Mon, 10 May 99 21:40:31 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1010290; 10 May 99 21:40 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id WAA11494 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 10 May 1999 22:29:59 +0100 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA11484 for ; Mon, 10 May 1999 22:29:38 +0100 Received: from [158.152.9.39] (helo=pilling.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10gxcT-000MD2-0C for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 10 May 1999 21:29:49 +0000 Date: Mon, 10 May 99 20:05:52 GMT Message-Id: <94838@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Path element message? X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >scrolled down through it, as I got to page 4 I got an error "Bad Path >element"; the window then snaps into the top left hand corner of the screen. >When I try dragging out again, it does the same thing- at page 4. I think I'd be inclined to think that the curve elements of an irregular frame have become corrupt. You might be able to select the frame and use the change shape option. In the light of that its kind of odd that DDL (save+load) then returns an error for a Draw file being corrupt. I suppose an alternative explanation would just be that a Draw file in the document is corrupt. You may be able to hack out the problem one from the DDL. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 11 14:07:16 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94917 for opro ; Tue, 11 May 99 14:07:15 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926400876:10:05966:16; Tue, 11 May 99 05:34:36 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1005886; 11 May 99 5:34 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id GAA12109 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 11 May 1999 06:17:24 +0100 Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk (golden.argonet.co.uk [194.131.104.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id GAA12104 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 06:17:11 +0100 Received: from (62.188.142.108) [62.188.142.108] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 10h4v0-0006lC-00; Tue, 11 May 1999 06:17:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Colin Randall) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 11 May 99 05:38:41 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: Re: !TransRTF problem..... Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Mon 10 May 99 (22:26:11), opro@pilling.demon.co.uk wrote: >I suppose there are 2 ways of loading RTF, drag to the icon bar icon, >and drag into a document. > >What you've not told us, is what does happen when you try to load RTF? > Although I did not start this correspondence I am also having the same problem. When I drag an rtf file into a document, nothing happens at all. When it is dragged to the icon bar icon the file is condensed into a garbled line of text on one line. The same rtf file loads into Easiwriter and Publisher without any problems, and the file-type is set to rtf. The !TransRTF file has been put into my !Boot.Resources Directory. Yours, Colin -- Benefice of Hanborough and Freeland http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/carandall The Christian Acorn User Group http://www.acorn.co.uk/developers/explan/ _____________________ carandall@argonet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 11 14:07:33 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94923 for opro ; Tue, 11 May 99 14:07:29 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926414991:10:06723:17; Tue, 11 May 99 09:29:51 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1107102; 11 May 99 9:29 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA12317 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:18:26 +0100 Received: from scrabble.freeuk.net (scrabble.freeuk.net [212.126.144.6]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA12312 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 10:18:11 +0100 Received: from [212.126.147.152] (helo=dawson) by scrabble.freeuk.net with smtp (Exim 2.11 #1) id 10h8gG-0002Ar-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 11 May 1999 09:18:28 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Dawson To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 09:44:32 +0100 Subject: Re: !TransRTF problem..... Message-ID: <4900725c1brayd@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Pluto/1.11k (RISC-OS/3.7) POPstar/2.01b12 Organization: MagRay Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article , Colin Randall wrote: > On Mon 10 May 99 (22:26:11), opro@pilling.demon.co.uk wrote: > >I suppose there are 2 ways of loading RTF, drag to the icon bar icon, > >and drag into a document. > > > >What you've not told us, is what does happen when you try to load RTF? > > > Although I did not start this correspondence I am also having the same > problem. When I drag an rtf file into a document, nothing happens at > all. When it is dragged to the icon bar icon the file is condensed into > a garbled line of text on one line. The same rtf file loads into > Easiwriter and Publisher without any problems, and the file-type is set > to rtf. The !TransRTF file has been put into my !Boot.Resources > Directory. As one of those for whom it works Ok, my version of TransRTF is 1.83. Just in case my !Run file is different, I've included it below IconSprites .!Sprites Set TransRTF$Dir Set TransRTF$Path . Set FFGServer$TransRTF -T &C32 &B25 -R TransRTF$Dir Set File$Type_C32 RTF Set File$Type_B25 OvPDDL WimpSlot -min 32K -max 32K Run .!Server Cheers, Ray D -- ..===================================. | M a g R a y Document Services | Ray Dawson Tel: 0181 864 7208 | the print and braille specialists | rayd@argonet.co.uk '===================================' http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/rayd -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 11 19:01:35 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94981 for opro ; Tue, 11 May 99 19:01:34 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926444289:20:25937:16; Tue, 11 May 99 17:38:09 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2025729; 11 May 99 17:37 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id SAA12803 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 11 May 1999 18:23:29 +0100 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA12798 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 18:23:14 +0100 Received: from [158.152.255.214] (helo=g6tsf.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10hGFj-000CBw-0C for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 11 May 1999 17:23:35 +0000 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 18:17:51 +0100 (BST) From: Paul Shayler Subject: Re: !TransRTF problem..... To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <94840@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Paul's Computer System X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R On Mon 10 May, David Pilling wrote: > > > >The only way that I can get !TransRTF to work is via the command line. > >This is not the way it should work. > > I suppose there are 2 ways of loading RTF,drag to the icon bar icon, > and drag into a document. > > What you've not told us, is what does happen when you try to load RTF? > > > > David Pilling Well I've tried both methods in the release notes, no joy with either I'm sorry to say :( -- NO RISC?..........NO FUN!! This message is brought to you by the power of the StrongARM (TM) ACORN SA-RPC using SA-110 processor Paul G6TSF g6tsf@amsat.org -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 11 19:42:41 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94988 for opro ; Tue, 11 May 99 19:42:40 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926446442:10:23528:34; Tue, 11 May 99 18:14:02 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1103502; 11 May 99 18:13 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id TAA12962 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 11 May 1999 19:00:30 +0100 Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk (golden.argonet.co.uk [194.131.104.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id TAA12957 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 19:00:19 +0100 Received: from (193.149.84.249) [193.149.84.249] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 10hGpa-0004iu-00; Tue, 11 May 1999 19:00:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Richard Torrens) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 13:22:53 +0100 X-Organization: 4QD, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: Posty - Voyager Email 1.22b Subject: Repro work Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by omega.barnet.ac.uk id TAA12958 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by omega.barnet.ac.uk id TAB12962 A bit off topic, but I thought this was the best place to ask. We have been using TJ repro for circuit board artwork from !Vector files.= The quality has been fine but the service has=A0not! Can anyone else do similar artwork repros from !Vector files? We also are loking for someone to print OPro boooklets: quantity is getti= ng a bit too much for the Calligraph! --=20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Torrens 4QD manufacture speed controllers for battery electric motors. www site http://www.4QD.co.uk ---------- We use an Acorn RISC-PC 32 bit RISC computer ---------------- -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 11 19:42:43 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94987 for opro ; Tue, 11 May 99 19:42:39 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926447662:20:09617:24; Tue, 11 May 99 18:34:22 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2009037; 11 May 99 18:33 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id TAA13034 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 11 May 1999 19:18:34 +0100 Received: from mailout.access.ch (mailout.access.ch [195.112.71.160]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA13029 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 19:18:21 +0100 Received: from janvredenb.access.ch (megapop2-45.access.ch [195.112.73.45]) by mailout.access.ch (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA02712 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 20:18:42 +0200 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 20:17:10 +0200 (BST) From: Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch Subject: Re: I keep crashing v2.50/v2.51 To: OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: JMvV: tel +41 41 3706124; fax +41 41 3706120 X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Sun 09 May, Brian O'Carroll wrote: > Hi. > > When I do the following Ovation v2.50 & v2.51 sometimes hangs... > > <> CTRL-right-cursor on last line of document > <> DELETE > > The whole thing then hangs and can only be escaped from using an Alt-break to > stop OvationPro. > > Anyone know why/get the same crash? Some other program must be interfering. Even if not active anymore it can have left some queer information in the module/keyboard area or whatever. Even worse are games. Having played whatever game on your computer, start from scratch. Meaning at least a hard reset. Maybe even switching off to let the whole system cool down for 10 seconds is needed. And if that is not enough a power-up reset (holding down the "R" button) might be called for. Do let us know if you have any specific program clashing with OPro. Greetings JMvV -- JM van Vredenburch tel +41 41 3706125 | RiscPC (ex-Acorn) Schaedruetihalde 5 fax +41 41 3706120 | Computers CH - 6006 Luzern email janvredenb@access.ch | only :-) .. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 11 21:15:25 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94994 for opro ; Tue, 11 May 99 21:15:23 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926452859:10:09445:17; Tue, 11 May 99 20:00:59 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1111041; 11 May 99 20:00 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id UAA13394 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 11 May 1999 20:47:51 +0100 Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA13389 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 20:47:40 +0100 Received: from [158.152.98.218] (helo=gvine.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10hIUm-0001zD-0B for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 11 May 1999 19:47:17 +0000 Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 22:23:00 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Muscat Subject: Re: Rhyming Dictionary To: Ovation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Sun 09 May, Paul wrote: > Hi, > > Does anyone know if there is such a thing as a Rhyming Dictionary for the RISC > PC? I suppose if there is it would be asking too much if it were compatible > with Ovation Pro. > I'm just lazy really, I get fed up with thumbing through a hard copy version. I asked this question not so long ago. The answer seemed to be no but I was pointed to a web page that did the job, and it was rather excellent. If you want I'll dig out the url. -- Alan Muscat Grapevine Digital Arts email: alan@gvine.demon.co.uk Choose Acorn - 12 users can't all be wrong -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 11 21:15:49 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA94995 for opro ; Tue, 11 May 99 21:15:48 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926449030:20:26277:20; Tue, 11 May 99 18:57:10 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2026263; 11 May 99 18:57 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id TAA13157 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 11 May 1999 19:43:27 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA13152 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 19:43:15 +0100 Received: from [158.152.9.39] (helo=pilling.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10hHVC-000MtG-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 11 May 1999 18:43:38 +0000 Date: Tue, 11 May 99 19:04:10 GMT Message-Id: <94984@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: !TransRTF problem..... X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >Well I've tried both methods in the release notes, no joy with either >I'm sorry to say :( Yes but what does happen. Do you get wrong looking text (as someone else just reported - I'd select all and change the size in that case), do you see the disc drive light pulse as the transloader is launched, you can also look at the task display which should jump as the transloader runs and then quits. Anyway if its a small RTF file, send me a copy and I'll try it. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 12 01:34:23 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95005 for opro ; Wed, 12 May 99 01:34:19 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926459945:20:10241:30; Tue, 11 May 99 21:59:05 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2115139; 11 May 99 21:58 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id WAA13617 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 11 May 1999 22:51:06 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA13612 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 22:50:54 +0100 Received: from [158.152.98.218] (helo=gvine.demon.co.uk) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10hKPX-0008MX-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 11 May 1999 21:50:01 +0000 Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 22:28:02 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Muscat Subject: Re: Space before To: OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Thu 06 May, Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch wrote: > On Thu 29 Apr, David Graddol wrote: > > Alan Muscat wrote: > > > > > On Wed 28 Apr, David Graddol wrote: > > > > Tony van der Hoff wrote: > > > > > > etc., etc., etc. > > Snip a lot > > Dear All, > > Having followed the discussion of the wanted non existing -extra- space at > the beginning of a new page, I start wondering whether it is wished that > OP does *not* function/behave in a logical way. > > If I understand OP correctly, all text is frame based. Meaning that any > text is positioned according to what precedes. Be this a line of text or > the beginning of a frame, including the main frame. So if you format your > base text with a preceding space, the very 1st line will have this extra > space. > Even on the very first page at the top line!! > > Actually what you are asking for is a contradiction to what you program > the text format to do. Do not forget the automatic text overflow function > from page to page. > > There is an easy solution to avoid the extra space in a similar way as > printer setters used to do it some 40 years ago. My solution nowadays with > OP (and with Ovation 1.42 as well) is as follows. And very easy to > implement with OP if you have the !StylePal activated. > > Create a new style based on the style where you implemented the "space > before", with the same name, but with a minus sign at the end. Program > this new style to have no 'Space before'. If your page starts with a > heading apply this newly created style to it. Which simply means selecting > it from the StylePal window. > This is the method I have used, but what if the text reflows and that heading/paragraph is no longer at the top of the frame? -- Alan Muscat Grapevine Digital Arts email: alan@gvine.demon.co.uk Choose Acorn - 12 users can't all be wrong -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 12 01:34:24 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95006 for opro ; Wed, 12 May 99 01:34:19 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926459602:10:00816:19; Tue, 11 May 99 21:53:22 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1124739; 11 May 99 21:53 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id WAA13576 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 11 May 1999 22:44:24 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA13571 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 22:44:08 +0100 Received: from [158.152.98.218] (helo=gvine.demon.co.uk) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10hKGt-0007VP-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 11 May 1999 21:41:04 +0000 Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 22:28:02 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Muscat Subject: Re: Space before To: OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Thu 06 May, Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch wrote: > On Thu 29 Apr, David Graddol wrote: > > Alan Muscat wrote: > > > > > On Wed 28 Apr, David Graddol wrote: > > > > Tony van der Hoff wrote: > > > > > > etc., etc., etc. > > Snip a lot > > Dear All, > > Having followed the discussion of the wanted non existing -extra- space at > the beginning of a new page, I start wondering whether it is wished that > OP does *not* function/behave in a logical way. > > If I understand OP correctly, all text is frame based. Meaning that any > text is positioned according to what precedes. Be this a line of text or > the beginning of a frame, including the main frame. So if you format your > base text with a preceding space, the very 1st line will have this extra > space. > Even on the very first page at the top line!! > > Actually what you are asking for is a contradiction to what you program > the text format to do. Do not forget the automatic text overflow function > from page to page. > > There is an easy solution to avoid the extra space in a similar way as > printer setters used to do it some 40 years ago. My solution nowadays with > OP (and with Ovation 1.42 as well) is as follows. And very easy to > implement with OP if you have the !StylePal activated. > > Create a new style based on the style where you implemented the "space > before", with the same name, but with a minus sign at the end. Program > this new style to have no 'Space before'. If your page starts with a > heading apply this newly created style to it. Which simply means selecting > it from the StylePal window. > This is the method I have used, but what if the text reflows and that heading/paragraph is no longer at the top of the frame? -- Alan Muscat Grapevine Digital Arts email: alan@gvine.demon.co.uk Choose Acorn - 12 users can't all be wrong -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 12 01:34:35 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95010 for opro ; Wed, 12 May 99 01:34:32 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926460161:10:06899:27; Tue, 11 May 99 22:02:41 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1007191; 11 May 99 22:02 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id WAA13675 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 11 May 1999 22:54:51 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA13669 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 22:54:28 +0100 Received: from [158.152.98.218] (helo=gvine.demon.co.uk) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10hKUB-0008hs-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 11 May 1999 21:54:49 +0000 Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 22:19:05 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Muscat Subject: Artworks images separating blacks To: Ovation Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro I think this one has been covered before, but quickly. If I import an Artworks image will Opro separate blacks to cmyk? cheers -- Alan Muscat Grapevine Digital Arts email: alan@gvine.demon.co.uk Choose Acorn - 12 users can't all be wrong -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 12 01:34:39 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95011 for opro ; Wed, 12 May 99 01:34:36 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926460383:10:09530:38; Tue, 11 May 99 22:06:23 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1114557; 11 May 99 22:05 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id WAA13670 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 11 May 1999 22:54:30 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA13662 for ; Tue, 11 May 1999 22:54:17 +0100 Received: from [158.152.98.218] (helo=gvine.demon.co.uk) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 10hKTi-0008hs-0K for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 11 May 1999 21:54:23 +0000 Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 22:28:02 +0100 (BST) From: Alan Muscat Subject: Re: Space before To: OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Thu 06 May, Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch wrote: > On Thu 29 Apr, David Graddol wrote: > > Alan Muscat wrote: > > > > > On Wed 28 Apr, David Graddol wrote: > > > > Tony van der Hoff wrote: > > > > > > etc., etc., etc. > > Snip a lot > > Dear All, > > Having followed the discussion of the wanted non existing -extra- space at > the beginning of a new page, I start wondering whether it is wished that > OP does *not* function/behave in a logical way. > > If I understand OP correctly, all text is frame based. Meaning that any > text is positioned according to what precedes. Be this a line of text or > the beginning of a frame, including the main frame. So if you format your > base text with a preceding space, the very 1st line will have this extra > space. > Even on the very first page at the top line!! > > Actually what you are asking for is a contradiction to what you program > the text format to do. Do not forget the automatic text overflow function > from page to page. > > There is an easy solution to avoid the extra space in a similar way as > printer setters used to do it some 40 years ago. My solution nowadays with > OP (and with Ovation 1.42 as well) is as follows. And very easy to > implement with OP if you have the !StylePal activated. > > Create a new style based on the style where you implemented the "space > before", with the same name, but with a minus sign at the end. Program > this new style to have no 'Space before'. If your page starts with a > heading apply this newly created style to it. Which simply means selecting > it from the StylePal window. > This is the method I have used, but what if the text reflows and that heading/paragraph is no longer at the top of the frame? -- Alan Muscat Grapevine Digital Arts email: alan@gvine.demon.co.uk Choose Acorn - 12 users can't all be wrong -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 12 19:12:58 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95035 for opro ; Wed, 12 May 99 19:12:54 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926500209:20:11400:20; Wed, 12 May 99 09:10:09 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2101231; 12 May 99 9:09 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id JAA14513 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 12 May 1999 09:55:59 +0100 Received: from daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk [137.205.192.30]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA14508 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 09:55:46 +0100 Received: from pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (pansy [137.205.192.19]) by daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA14940 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 09:56:16 +0100 (BST) Received: from bashley (bashley [137.205.186.91]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA20903 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 09:56:12 +0100 (BST) From: "Nick Kaijaks" To: Subject: RE: I keep crashing v2.50/v2.51 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:55:21 +0100 Message-ID: <000901be9c55$2a666760$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R > On Sun 09 May, Brian O'Carroll wrote: > When I do the following Ovation v2.50 & v2.51 sometimes hangs... > > <> CTRL-right-cursor on last line of document > <> DELETE > > The whole thing then hangs and can only be escaped from using an Alt-break to > stop OvationPro. > > Anyone know why/get the same crash? It may be worth trying Ctrl-Escape before you do an Alt-Break. If it's an applet or a script that's stuck in a loop, then Ctrl-Esc will stop it and return control. Often, I've thought that OPro has hung, when it's actually only an errant script. Saves a lot of hassle and rewriting. Incidentally, David, it would be useful for OPro to identify the applet when the 'Script Stopped' errorbox is thrown. Something for the next version :-/ Cheers, Nick -- Nick Kaijaks, Pinxit Design - Information Design for Internet and print http://www.kaijaks.co.uk/ mailto:nick@kaijaks.co.uk Disclaimer: caveat internettor -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 12 19:13:03 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95037 for opro ; Wed, 12 May 99 19:13:01 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926508745:20:27175:21; Wed, 12 May 99 11:32:25 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2026922; 12 May 99 11:32 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id MAA14738 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 12 May 1999 12:12:18 +0100 Received: from host1.kbnet.co.uk (root@host1.kbnet.co.uk [194.168.148.2]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA14733 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 12:12:04 +0100 Received: from lizard (dialup058.kbnet.co.uk [194.168.148.220]) by host1.kbnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA14507 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 12:14:39 GMT Message-ID: <3739D242.5F80@bnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 12:10:58 -0700 From: Mike Williams Organization: Akalat Publishing X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Artworks images separating blacks References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Alan Muscat wrote: > If I import an Artworks image will Opro separate > blacks to cmyk? > In the first instance it probably depends on whether the black is defined as RGB or CMYK. The results of separations may well be different. It may also depend on how 'black' is defined in OP. Simple experiments and view separations will show what is happening. However, I have often seen black separate into percentages of CMY & K so if you only want it to separate into K always check separations. Mike Williams Akalat Publishing -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 12 19:13:46 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95048 for opro ; Wed, 12 May 99 19:13:44 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926532210:10:16809:20; Wed, 12 May 99 18:03:30 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1016763; 12 May 99 18:03 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id SAA15142 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 12 May 1999 18:52:12 +0100 Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk (golden.argonet.co.uk [194.131.104.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA15137 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 18:52:00 +0100 Received: from (193.149.70.126) [193.149.70.126] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 10hdBJ-0004H9-00; Wed, 12 May 1999 18:52:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Paul) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 12 May 99 07:15:26 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: Re: Rhyming Dictionary Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hi, Thanks for the advice on Rhyming Dictionary's. It looks as though the web site is the best bet. Cheers, Paul -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ paulh@argonet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 12 19:14:04 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95051 for opro ; Wed, 12 May 99 19:14:02 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926531577:20:05317:30; Wed, 12 May 99 17:52:57 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2116222; 12 May 99 17:52 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id SAA15087 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 12 May 1999 18:38:11 +0100 Received: from typhoon.mail.pipex.net (typhoon.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.27]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA15081 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 18:37:56 +0100 Received: (qmail 27406 invoked from network); 12 May 1999 17:38:30 -0000 Received: from userag04.uk.uudial.com (HELO gtwywc97@ukgateway.net) (62.188.132.90) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 12 May 1999 17:38:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ray Dawson To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 17:17:34 +0100 Subject: Selecting numbers Message-ID: <49011fabdcrayd@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/1.11k (RISC-OS/3.7) POPstar/2.01b12 Organization: MagRay Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R I never thought I would say this, but Publisher does one thing better than Ovation Pro. If I click a decimal number in Publisher to select it, it selects the whole number - it's intelligent enough to know the difference between numbers and letters. So, clicking on 245.789 selects the whole thing. OP on the other hand only selects the numbers to the left of the decimal point - even if I click on the numbers to the right of it. It must know that the whole string is a number, but it stops at the decimal point. So, So, clicking on 245.789 selects the 245 but not the 789, even if I click on the 789. Which is a real pain as I regularly have to update masses of published account figures for a client and so have to do them in Publisher. Any chance of a script to alter it or a fix please sometime? Cheers, Ray D -- ..===================================. | M a g R a y Document Services | Ray Dawson Tel: 0181 864 7208 | the print and braille specialists | rayd@argonet.co.uk '===================================' http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/rayd -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 13 02:04:58 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95082 for opro ; Thu, 13 May 99 02:04:57 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926543528:20:17781:20; Wed, 12 May 99 21:12:08 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2017806; 12 May 99 21:12 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id VAA15436 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:39:47 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA15424 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:39:15 +0100 Received: from [158.152.9.39] (helo=pilling.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10hfnC-000IPl-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 12 May 1999 20:39:50 +0000 Date: Wed, 12 May 99 21:22:57 GMT Message-Id: <95076@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Selecting numbers X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >If I click a decimal number in Publisher to select it, it selects the >whole number - it's intelligent enough to know the difference between >numbers and letters. Good idea... It should be easy to write an applet or macro that will bind a key press to 'select a number'. You can't intercept the double mouse click that selects a word though. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 13 02:05:00 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95083 for opro ; Thu, 13 May 99 02:04:59 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926543893:20:23170:33; Wed, 12 May 99 21:18:13 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id ab2023117; 12 May 99 21:17 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id VAA15435 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:39:45 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA15420 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:39:13 +0100 Received: from [158.152.9.39] (helo=pilling.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10hfnB-000IPl-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 12 May 1999 20:39:49 +0000 Date: Wed, 12 May 99 21:21:02 GMT Message-Id: <95074@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: RE: I keep crashing v2.50/v2.51 X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >Incidentally, David, it would be useful for OPro to identify the applet when >the 'Script Stopped' errorbox is thrown. Something for the next version :-/ A piece of cake to add all sorts of stuff like letting you see and edit script variables. As things stand the script language does not know anything about applets. It just sees a series of script files loaded. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 13 02:05:03 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95084 for opro ; Thu, 13 May 99 02:05:01 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926544412:20:00837:16; Wed, 12 May 99 21:26:52 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2000603; 12 May 99 21:26 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id VAA15433 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:39:42 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA15416 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 21:39:12 +0100 Received: from [158.152.9.39] (helo=pilling.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10hfnA-000IPl-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 12 May 1999 20:39:48 +0000 Date: Wed, 12 May 99 21:18:58 GMT Message-Id: <95072@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Artworks images separating blacks X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Alan Muscat wrote: > If I import an Artworks image will Opro separate > blacks to cmyk? I hesitate to get involved, because this has proved to be a complex subject. My feeling is that if the colours in the ArtWorks file are defined in the CMYK basis then they will come out as CMYK. The fun starts with RGB colours which will be converted using the 'curves'. Often those curves are set up to produce some CMY for black. And I think whats been covered a lot here in the past is trouble with spot colours. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 13 02:05:09 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95086 for opro ; Thu, 13 May 99 02:05:06 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926554429:20:18749:16; Thu, 13 May 99 00:13:49 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2107582; 13 May 99 0:13 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id AAA15861 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 13 May 1999 00:58:12 +0100 Received: from mutt.eurobell.net (qmailr@mutt.eurobell.net [212.24.65.70]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id AAA15856 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 00:57:57 +0100 Received: (qmail 15965 invoked from network); 13 May 1999 00:09:20 -0000 Received: from 66-022.cr.access.eurobell.co.uk (HELO pebbles.eurobell.co.uk) (212.24.66.22) by mutt.eurobell.net with SMTP; 13 May 1999 00:09:20 -0000 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 23:09:23 +0000 From: "Brian O'Carroll" To: Nick.Kaijaks@warwick.ac.uk Cc: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: RE: I keep crashing v2.50/v2.51 Message-ID: <84e13f149%pebbles@eurobell.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <000901be9c55$2a666760$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> Organization: Pebblesculpt X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60k Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In message <000901be9c55$2a666760$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> "Nick Kaijaks" wrote: > > On Sun 09 May, Brian O'Carroll wrote: > > When I do the following Ovation v2.50 & v2.51 sometimes hangs... > > > > <> CTRL-right-cursor on last line of document > > <> DELETE > > It may be worth trying Ctrl-Escape before you do an Alt-Break. If it's an > applet or a script that's stuck in a loop, then Ctrl-Esc will stop it and > return control. That's done it... I think. I had not realised that a CTRL-Escape had such specific power. I managed to chrash it in the manner described and CTRL-Escape produces a 'Script Stopped' error, although, as mentioned, sis not indicate which script is stuck. Thanks. Brian. -- Brian O'Carroll pebbles@eurobell.co.uk http://www.zynet.co.uk/pebbles -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 13 12:54:19 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95098 for opro ; Thu, 13 May 99 12:54:17 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926560471:20:07280:16; Thu, 13 May 99 01:54:31 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2118943; 13 May 99 1:54 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id CAA16197 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 13 May 1999 02:33:53 +0100 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95085 for oprolist ; Thu, 13 May 99 02:05:03 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for oprolist@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926545565:20:17782:2; Wed, 12 May 99 21:46:05 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2129061; 12 May 99 21:45 GMT Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk (mail3.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.19]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA15773 for ; Wed, 12 May 1999 22:45:12 +0100 Received: from modem-2.magnesium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.5.130] helo=lcessford) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10hgp2-0003fX-00 for owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Wed, 12 May 1999 22:45:48 +0100 Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 21:41:37 +0100 From: Alex Cessford To: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: How to send in comments, queries to the OvPro list Message-ID: <91d837149%alex@lcessford.freeserve.co.uk> X-Organization: home X-Mailer: Messenger v1.40f for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60m User-Agent: POPstar/2.01b12 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hi, Just signed on last night, so a newbie to all this. How do you .... as the Subject line says ...? Whilst writing, can I send in a query now, please? Love my Acorn, love OvPro, hate PCs, BUT... My wife uses her laptop with Word, which underlines spelling errors just like OvPro, but it also zig-zag/underlines grammatical errors, which my v.2.51 OvPro doesn't do. Has anyone written/would anyone like to write, an applet so that I can match this Word facility? (I'm no programmer!). -- Alex. You mail to 'ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk' and not to where you did mail... David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 13 12:54:32 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95104 for opro ; Thu, 13 May 99 12:54:30 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926593330:20:05799:18; Thu, 13 May 99 11:02:10 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2005152; 13 May 99 11:01 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id LAA16794 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:45:07 +0100 Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk (golden.argonet.co.uk [194.131.104.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA16789 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:44:52 +0100 Received: from (62.188.150.54) [62.188.150.54] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 10hsze-0003th-00; Thu, 13 May 1999 11:45:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Andrew Carnell) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 13 May 99 11:43:45 X-Mailer: VTi Internet Email reader 1.09 : aa Subject: Re: Repro work Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by omega.barnet.ac.uk id LAA16790 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by omega.barnet.ac.uk id LAB16794 On Tue 11 May, Richard Torrens wrote: > A bit off topic, but I thought this was the best place to ask. > > We have been using TJ repro for circuit board artwork from !Vector file= s. The quality > has been fine but the service has=A0not! > > Can anyone else do similar artwork repros from !Vector files? > You could try Us!!! Andrew Carnell --=20 Andrew Carnell @ Amorphic (UK) Publishing Website http://fast.to/amorphic Tel +44(0)1522 533 044 Fax +44(0)1522 887 997 E-mail amorphic@argonet.co.uk Tennyson Court (Guest House / Self Catering Cottages) Website http://fast.to/tennyson-court Tel 0800 980 5408 or +44(0)1522 533 044 Fax +44(0)1522 887 997 E-mail amorphic@argonet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 13 12:54:34 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95105 for opro ; Thu, 13 May 99 12:54:33 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926581623:10:05771:18; Thu, 13 May 99 07:47:03 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1108730; 13 May 99 7:46 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id IAA16406 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 13 May 1999 08:33:41 +0100 Received: from mail-relay.power.net.uk (mail-relay.power.net.uk [195.60.31.17]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id IAA16401 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 08:33:26 +0100 Received: from english.powernet.co.uk (natcust93.powernet.co.uk [195.60.5.93]) by mail-relay.power.net.uk (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id IAA03603 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 08:30:25 +0100 (GMT/BST) Received: from Gill (10.0.1.1) by Caslon.english.co.uk; Thu, 13 May 1999 08:31:23 +0100 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:32:33 +0100 From: David Graddol To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: How to send in comments, queries to the OvPro list Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <91d837149%alex@lcessford.freeserve.co.uk> X-Organization: The English Company (UK) Ltd X-Mailer: Messenger v1.40d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Alex Cessford wrote: > My wife uses her laptop with Word, which underlines spelling errors just > like OvPro, but it also zig-zag/underlines grammatical errors, which my > v.2.51 OvPro doesn't do. Has anyone written/would anyone like to write, > an applet so that I can match this Word facility? (I'm no programmer!). Believe me, you do not want this facility. Word does NOT underline grammatical errors. Despite the fairly advanced state of the art in linguistic analysis software, the facilities for grammar-checking in Word are so woeful that you are best leaving them turned off. Programming a grammar-checking applet is, however, a non-trivial task. David -- The English Company (UK) Ltd http://www.english.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 13 12:54:37 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95106 for opro ; Thu, 13 May 99 12:54:36 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926588236:10:05402:18; Thu, 13 May 99 09:37:16 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1121854; 13 May 99 9:36 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA16606 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:20:07 +0100 Received: from hinge.mistral.co.uk (hinge.mistral.co.uk [195.184.228.15]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA16601 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 10:19:53 +0100 Received: from s.v.ellacott.mistral.co.uk (d3-s21-181-telehouse.mistral.co.uk [195.184.228.181]) by hinge.mistral.co.uk (8.8.5/ Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 10:13:29 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Ellacott Subject: Re: Repro work To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 X-Organization: University of Brighton X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by omega.barnet.ac.uk id KAB16606 On Tue 11 May, Richard Torrens wrote: > A bit off topic, but I thought this was the best place to ask. >=20 > We have been using TJ repro for circuit board artwork from !Vector file= s. The quality=20 > has been fine but the service has=A0not! >=20 > Can anyone else do similar artwork repros from !Vector files? >=20 You could try MicroLaser Designs sales@microlas.demon.co.uk If you are doing serious DTP, it is a good idea to subscribe to Acorn Publisher.=20 akalat@kbnet.co.uk Steve --=20 Steve Ellacott, School of Computing and Mathematical Sciences, University of Brighton, Moulsecoomb, BN2 4GJ, UK Tel: Home (01273) 885845 Office: (01273) 642544 Fax: Home (01273) 270183 Office: (01273) 642405 WWW: http://www.it.brighton.ac.uk/staff/swe -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 13 17:48:24 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95120 for opro ; Thu, 13 May 99 17:48:22 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926609768:20:18807:16; Thu, 13 May 99 15:36:08 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2108559; 13 May 99 15:35 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id PAA17128 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 13 May 1999 15:57:32 +0100 Received: from mailout.access.ch (mailout.access.ch [195.112.71.160]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA17123 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 15:57:16 +0100 Received: from janvredenb.access.ch (megapop2-13.access.ch [195.112.73.13]) by mailout.access.ch (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA10289; Thu, 13 May 1999 16:57:54 +0200 Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 14:39:55 +0200 (BST) From: Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch Subject: Re: Space before To: OVATIONP-L In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: JMvV: tel +41 41 3706124; fax +41 41 3706120 X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Mon 10 May, Alan Muscat wrote: > On Thu 06 May, Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch wrote: > > On Thu 29 Apr, David Graddol wrote: > > > Alan Muscat wrote: > > > > > > > On Wed 28 Apr, David Graddol wrote: > > > > > Tony van der Hoff wrote: > > > > > > > > > etc., etc., etc. > > Snip a lot > This is the method I have used, but what if the text reflows and that > heading/paragraph is no longer at the top of the frame? Formatting is the last thing you should do. And in case you must add text, and therefore must format again, it can be difficult to find/see where you had this special format. The best way not to overlook anything is by temporarily changing the specific style to have a bright foreground or background colour. I also use the trick of using a special colour when a letter has many annexes attached to it. Having finished the letter, I check that I have indeed all annexes and then change that special colour to black before printing. This way you can later also always easily check whether a certain document was sent with your letter by turning the colour back on. Hope this helps. JohnvV -- JM van Vredenburch tel +41 41 3706125 | RiscPC (ex-Acorn) Schaedruetihalde 5 fax +41 41 3706120 | Computers CH - 6006 Luzern email janvredenb@access.ch | only :-) .. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 13 21:42:12 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95143 for opro ; Thu, 13 May 99 21:42:09 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926625602:10:18768:21; Thu, 13 May 99 20:00:02 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1018827; 13 May 99 19:59 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id UAA17451 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 13 May 1999 20:43:31 +0100 Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk (golden.argonet.co.uk [194.131.104.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA17446 for ; Thu, 13 May 1999 20:43:14 +0100 Received: from (loopback) [193.149.77.49] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 10i1Oj-0006jM-00; Thu, 13 May 1999 20:44:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: "D.A.Symes" To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 20:30:00 +0100 Subject: Re: How to send in comments, queries to the OvPro list Message-ID: <4901b52007df.symes@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: References: <91d837149%alex@lcessford.freeserve.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/1.11k (RISC-OS/3.7) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In article , David Graddol wrote: > Alex Cessford wrote: > > My wife uses her laptop with Word, which underlines spelling errors > > just like OvPro, but it also zig-zag/underlines grammatical errors, > > which my v.2.51 OvPro doesn't do. Has anyone written/would anyone > > like to write, an applet so that I can match this Word facility? (I'm > > no programmer!). > Believe me, you do not want this facility. Word does NOT > underline grammatical errors. Despite the fairly advanced state > of the art in linguistic analysis software, the facilities for > grammar-checking in Word are so woeful that you are best leaving > them turned off. Programming a grammar-checking applet is, > however, a non-trivial task. > David I have to agree with David ... If SWMBO and I want a good laugh, we stick a bit of text into Word and let the grammer check loose... what a laugh we have... :-O Cheers Dave S -- _______________________________________________________________________ Dave Symes... df.symes@argonet.co.uk .. or.. dfs@ukgateway.net ...Mem...Clan Acorn...Mem...BSFA and others... http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/df.symes http://www.dfs.ukgateway.net -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 14 18:57:04 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95183 for opro ; Fri, 14 May 99 18:57:03 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926698796:10:13606:59; Fri, 14 May 99 16:19:56 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1013841; 14 May 99 16:19 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA18561 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:56:04 +0100 Received: from mail9.svr.pol.co.uk (mail9.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.22]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA18556 for ; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:55:48 +0100 Received: from modem-38.trazodone.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.89.166] helo=lcessford) by mail9.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10iKKM-0004ra-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 14 May 1999 16:56:47 +0100 Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 16:53:38 +0100 From: Alex Cessford To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: How to send in comments, queries to the OvPro list Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <4901b52007df.symes@argonet.co.uk> X-Organization: home X-Mailer: Messenger v1.40f for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60m User-Agent: POPstar/2.01b12 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In message <4901b52007df.symes@argonet.co.uk> you wrote: > In article , > David Graddol wrote: > > Believe me, you do not want this facility. Word does NOT > > underline grammatical errors. Despite the fairly advanced state > > of the art in linguistic analysis software, the facilities for > > grammar-checking in Word are so woeful that you are best leaving > > them turned off. Programming a grammar-checking applet is, > > however, a non-trivial task. > > > David > > I have to agree with David ... > > If SWMBO and I want a good laugh, we stick a bit of text into Word and let > the grammer check loose... what a laugh we have... :-O > > > Cheers > > Dave S > Whoops! Did I swear rather badly or what?!! Still, at least my ignorance proves that I don't use these crappy machines and software! Long live Acorn software say I. -- Alex. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 17 19:56:36 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95217 for opro ; Mon, 17 May 99 19:56:33 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926791145:20:05601:19; Sat, 15 May 99 17:59:05 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2005184; 15 May 99 17:58 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id SAA19661 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 15 May 1999 18:41:05 +0100 Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk (golden.argonet.co.uk [194.131.104.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id SAA19656 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 18:40:50 +0100 Received: from (193.149.71.110) [193.149.71.110] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 10iiRl-0003bX-00; Sat, 15 May 1999 18:42:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ken To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 22:17:28 +0100 Subject: Re: Selecting numbers Message-ID: <490242ccb3ken.mcnaught@argonet.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <49011fabdcrayd@argonet.co.uk> References: <49011fabdcrayd@argonet.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/1.11i (RISC-OS/3.6) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Sorry for the late reply; been away from the computer for a few days :-( In article <49011fabdcrayd@argonet.co.uk>, Ray Dawson wrote: [snip] > So, clicking on 245.789 selects the 245 but not the 789, even if I > click on the 789. I've had similar problems with the selection routines. What seems to happen is that the selection logic start starts from the double-click position and moves left looking for the start of the "word". However, this will happily pass over any embedded punctuation characters, and stop at a space (or beginning of line/paragraph). This position is remembered. The logic then starts searching forward from that mark looking for the end of the "word". But now it will STOP at any punctuation marks, embedded or otherwise. This is not consistent! So in the example, by clicking anywhere in 789 searches left (passing over the full-stop) until it finds the space in front of the "2" and marks that point. It now searches right, but this time STOPS at the period, and hence only 245 gets selected, even though 789 was clicked! I believe this is an error in the logic/code :-( Solutions could include: 1) Making both the search-left and search-right logic consistent: 1.a) both stop at any punctuation mark, 1.b) both pass over an embedded punctation mark. 2) Make the right search logic begin at the point of the double-click (not the mark-point of the left search). Option (1.b) would allow for the full number to be selected (as Ray requires), no matter where on the number you clicked, and is probably the best solution here. It is also the way I would prefer it to work. > Any chance of a script to alter it or a fix please sometime? .... Preferably a modification to the selection code itself? Pretty please? > Cheers, Ditto, > Ray D *** Ken *** -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / "40 is not old. Embarrassing, but not old!" | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | / ken.mcnaught@argonet.co.uk in W. Yorkshire ___________________________/ http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/ken.mcnaught/ WEB: Read about my great grand father: "The (other) man in the Iron Mask!" and link to the "Knottingley Concert Brass" band site. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 17 19:56:48 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95224 for opro ; Mon, 17 May 99 19:56:45 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926806969:10:09243:19; Sat, 15 May 99 22:22:49 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1101115; 15 May 99 22:22 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id XAA19884 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 15 May 1999 23:01:31 +0100 Received: from mail9.svr.pol.co.uk (mail9.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.22]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA19879 for ; Sat, 15 May 1999 23:01:16 +0100 Received: from modem-7.silver.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.23.7] helo=lcessford) by mail9.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10imVb-00057O-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 15 May 1999 23:02:21 +0100 Date: Sat, 15 May 1999 22:54:55 +0100 From: Alex Cessford To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Tab Stops Message-ID: X-Organization: home X-Mailer: Messenger v1.40f for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60m User-Agent: POPstar/2.01b12 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Just using OvPro today and needing to line up several subsequent lines on a tab stop about 3 tabs along, (if that makes sense!), and realised that with each new line I had to hit the tab key 3 times every time. No big deal, except that it suddenly occurred to me that if I had been using StrongEd, it would have assumed, (having had one line start 3 tabs along), that I wanted subsequent lines to be tabbed 3 times along as well, unless told otherwise by being overridden - by simply hitting Delete the requisite number of times. This is rather nice, any chance of having OvPro do the same? An applet perhaps? -- Alex. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 17 19:56:54 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95228 for opro ; Mon, 17 May 99 19:56:52 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926830572:10:00088:16; Sun, 16 May 99 04:56:12 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1114157; 16 May 99 4:56 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id FAA20314 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 16 May 1999 05:44:05 +0100 Received: from halibut.pnc.com.au (halibut.pnc.com.au [203.13.174.1]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id FAA20309 for ; Sun, 16 May 1999 05:43:51 +0100 Received: from koalasft.pnc.com.au (d65-nas2.Pen.pnc.com.au [203.57.114.65]) by halibut.pnc.com.au (8.8.4/8.7.6) with SMTP id P Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 12:34:36 +0000 (GMT) From: Alan Jones Subject: Re: Loading older versions To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Wed 21 Apr, James White wrote: > On Tue 20 Apr, Richard Watkinson wrote: > > IMHO RISCOS will load whichever version of Opro it 'saw' last (i.e. > > which !boot file inside the actual application was last run) so it may > > be that you had not rebooted the machine after updating everything OR > > that somehow in your boot sequence both your copies of Opro are being > > seen and V2.49 is seen after V2.52. > > > > If you can't sort out the problem from this try removing the ! from > > your 2.49 version by renaming it to OvnPro. You can't do any damage > > and can always put the ! back in again later. > > > > No no, don't go to all that :-) > Just open up !Boot.Choices.Boot.Tasks.!Boot > and change the directory reference for !OvnPro. > > Regards > JW Done all that. Still does it. I might try reversing the instructions, being down under. TIC. Cheers > ************************************************************************** Alan J Jones | -- ACORN DEALER and RESOURCE CENTRE -- | Proptietor | Distributors of Acorn Third Party Software for | Koala Soft | Education, Business and Home Computing | | PO. Box 157, Winmalee. NSW 2777. AUSTRALIA | ************************************************************************** -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 17 19:57:07 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95233 for opro ; Mon, 17 May 99 19:57:04 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926934679:20:26823:25; Mon, 17 May 99 09:51:19 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2105967; 17 May 99 9:51 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA21797 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:33:19 +0100 Received: from daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk [137.205.192.30]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA21792 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:33:07 +0100 Received: from pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (pansy [137.205.192.19]) by daffodil.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA21336 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:33:09 +0100 (BST) Received: from bashley (bashley [137.205.186.91]) by pansy.csv.warwick.ac.uk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA03911 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 10:33:07 +0100 (BST) From: "Nick Kaijaks" To: Subject: RE: Selecting numbers Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 10:32:26 +0100 Message-ID: <000301bea048$2cbdac70$5bbacd89@wbs.warwick.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by omega.barnet.ac.uk id KAB21797 Don Lewis wrote: > If you use the correct decimal point as in 123=B7456, you get the I hate to be a wet blanket, but I don't think that's the correct decimal point character according to the style guides. It's normally used as a multiplicative operator [read 'times by'] in maths, as in: 123.456 =B7 2 = =3D 246.912, because it's quicker to write than x or * when writing long expressions by hand. I suspect that the midpoint is probably taught in primary schools (aside:do they still do arithmetic these days?), indeed that's how I was taught, but I don't think it's what Hart's rules for typographers would use (although my copy is at home so I can't check for = a categorical answer). Life's never simple is it? Cheers, Nick -- Nick Kaijaks, Pinxit Design - Information Design for Internet and print http://www.kaijaks.co.uk/ mailto:nick@kaijaks.co.uk Disclaimer: caveat internettor -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 17 19:57:13 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95237 for opro ; Mon, 17 May 99 19:57:12 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926938566:20:03338:20; Mon, 17 May 99 10:56:06 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2003296; 17 May 99 10:55 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id LAA21952 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:35:44 +0100 Received: from mutt.eurobell.net (qmailr@mutt.eurobell.net [212.24.65.70]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id LAA21947 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 11:35:32 +0100 Received: (qmail 19935 invoked from network); 17 May 1999 10:47:04 -0000 Received: from 66-232.cr.access.eurobell.co.uk (HELO pebbles.eurobell.co.uk) (212.24.66.232) by mutt.eurobell.net with SMTP; 17 May 1999 10:47:04 -0000 Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 14:17:56 +0000 From: "Brian O'Carroll" To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Styles from cursor Message-ID: Organization: Pebblesculpt X-Mailer: Messenger v1.34c for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60k Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Is there a way of defining a style based on the styles and effects that are operative at the current cursor position? Brian. -- Brian O'Carroll pebbles@eurobell.co.uk http://www.zynet.co.uk/pebbles -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 17 19:57:17 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95238 for opro ; Mon, 17 May 99 19:57:13 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926932146:10:10814:17; Mon, 17 May 99 09:09:06 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1010766; 17 May 99 9:08 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id JAA21672 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 17 May 1999 09:42:31 +0100 Received: from dirc.bris.ac.uk (dirc.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.51]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA21667 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 09:42:16 +0100 Received: from sis.bris.ac.uk by dirc.bris.ac.uk with SMTP-PRIV (PP) with ESMTP; Mon, 17 May 1999 09:40:34 +0100 Received: from dml1.pys.bristol.ac.uk (dml1.pys.bris.ac.uk [137.222.53.82]) by sis.bris.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA01771 for ; Mon, 17 May 1999 09:38:20 +0100 (BST) Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 09:38:19 +0100 (BST) From: "Dr. D. M. Lewis" Subject: Re: Selecting numbers To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <490242ccb3ken.mcnaught@argonet.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by omega.barnet.ac.uk id JAA21668 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by omega.barnet.ac.uk id JAB21672 On Fri 14 May, Ken wrote: > Sorry for the late reply; been away from the computer for a few days :-= ( >=20 > In article <49011fabdcrayd@argonet.co.uk>, > Ray Dawson wrote: >=20 > [snip] > > So, clicking on 245.789 selects the 245 but not the 789, even if I > > click on the 789. If you use the correct decimal point as in 123=B7456, you get the whole n= umber selected wherever you click. I know this creates other problems, but it c= an be useful at times. Don Lewis --=20 Dr. D. M. Lewis Phone (+44) 117 9287813 Department of Physiology Secretaries' Office 9288105 Medical School, University Walk, Fax 9288923 Bristol, BS8 1TD -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 17 22:51:06 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95288 for opro ; Mon, 17 May 99 22:51:04 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926977676:20:01344:16; Mon, 17 May 99 21:47:56 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2001315; 17 May 99 21:47 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id WAA22468 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 17 May 1999 22:32:50 +0100 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95221 for ovationp-l ; Mon, 17 May 99 19:56:42 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926843912:20:20038:1; Sun, 16 May 99 08:38:32 GMT Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id af2019951; 16 May 99 8:38 GMT Received: from [158.152.58.5] (helo=omba.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10iwGU-000NIW-0A for ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk; Sun, 16 May 1999 08:27:18 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Jeremy C B Nicoll To: ovationp-l@pilling.demon.co.uk Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 09:23:46 +0100 Subject: Use of DDL files and/or predefined GML markup Message-ID: <490303a33dJeremy@omba.demon.co.uk> User-Agent: Pluto/1.11c (RISC-OS/3.7) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R a) is there an explanation of this format anywhere? I want to generate some files in DDL and import them into OvPro. I do realise that I can experiment by looking at DDL stuff in edit, but there's nothing like documentation to explain the basics.. For example, it appears that (maybe) "{bold}" is a toggle for the bold attribute of the current font. If I build text elsewhere is there some way that I can preface chunks of text with an initial "normal" value so that hierarchical sections of the final document don't accidentally inherit characteristics of preceding chunks...? That is, I'd like to achieve: Some text which now goes into bold text and then bold-italics then ordinary italics then if I forget to reset the italics attribute, and copy more text into the document Here is the first line of the new text with a bold bit, I want all of this sentence not to be in italics... Maybe there's a attribute or or something that I could use to reset things? b) is there any way, if I import a DDL file, then change it in OvPro that I can get the save_as box to default to DDL as the output file type? I certainly wouldn't want this to happen normally, but at the moment the way it keeps reverting to OvPro is driving me nuts. c) Alternatively, if I import a text file which contains something like: "This is a phrase with a :ital.italicised:eital. word in it." - that is something marked up in a standard text markup language (but not HTML) is there any way I can use Find/Replace to replace the GML tags through the document with the equivalent actions/attributes? I'm assuming not at the moment which is why I'm investigating generation of the files in DDL, but maybe this would be easier? Thanks! -- Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 18 14:14:57 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95302 for opro ; Tue, 18 May 99 14:14:56 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 926991424:10:01229:16; Tue, 18 May 99 01:37:04 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1001208; 18 May 99 1:36 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id CAA22884 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 18 May 1999 02:18:43 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id CAA22879 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 02:18:32 +0100 Received: from [158.152.9.39] (helo=pilling.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10jYWq-000Mdc-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Tue, 18 May 1999 01:18:45 +0000 Date: Tue, 18 May 99 02:12:07 GMT Message-Id: <95295@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Use of DDL files and/or predefined GML markup X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >a) is there an explanation of this format anywhere? No. > For example, it appears that (maybe) "{bold}" is a toggle for the bold > attribute of the current font. {bold 1} // set bold effect on {bold 0} // set bold effect off {bold} // no bold effect Note that the last two are not one and the same thing. >b) is there any way, if I import a DDL file, then change it in OvPro that > I can get the save_as box to default to DDL as the output file type? I No. > - that is something marked up in a standard text markup language (but > not HTML) is there any way I can use Find/Replace to replace the GML > tags through the document with the equivalent actions/attributes? I'm > assuming not at the moment which is why I'm investigating generation > of the files in DDL, but maybe this would be easier? There's no easy way. I believe there is an applet that can s and r with effects in the replace string. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 18 14:15:04 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95305 for opro ; Tue, 18 May 99 14:15:02 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 927016092:10:07634:16; Tue, 18 May 99 08:28:12 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1007485; 18 May 99 8:28 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id JAA23123 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:05:25 +0100 Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk (golden.argonet.co.uk [194.131.104.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA23118 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:05:10 +0100 Received: from (acorn) [193.149.78.80] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 10jesP-0005N8-00; Tue, 18 May 1999 09:05:26 +0100 Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 18:25:00 +0100 From: Ovation Pro Maillist To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Tab Stops Message-ID: <893035349%ovationpro@levens.co.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: The Levens Organisation Limited: Levens Software X-Mailer: Messenger v1.40f for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60m Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In message you wrote: > Just using OvPro today and needing to line up several subsequent lines > on a tab stop about 3 tabs along, (if that makes sense!), and realised > that with each new line I had to hit the tab key 3 times every time. No > big deal, except that it suddenly occurred to me that if I had been > using StrongEd, it would have assumed, (having had one line start 3 tabs > along), that I wanted subsequent lines to be tabbed 3 times along as > well, unless told otherwise by being overridden - by simply hitting > Delete the requisite number of times. This is rather nice, any chance > of having OvPro do the same? An applet perhaps? > I have started work an a automated bullet list applet (much like the facility provided in MS Word). In Word you simply enter a number (or bullet, etc) and then the following details and then press return. On doing so the 'start' details (ie. tab, bullet, tab) will appear. There is no reason why this couldn't work for what you are suggesting. Please don't be expecting this applet just yet. I have _just_ arrived back from the Wakefield show and am just a little bit tired. With other jobs I have on at the moment it might take me a couple of weeks (max) to finish this project, (which will also be able to add ordered list support to HTMLPro...). I'll keep you posted. Cheers Benji Levens -- _ software@levens.co.uk ____ __ _ | | _____ _____ _ __ ___ / ___| ___ / _| |___ ____ _ _ __ ___ | | / _ \ \ / / _ \ '_ \/ __|\___ \ / _ \| |_| __\ \ /\ / / _` | '__/ _ \ | |__| __/\ V / __/ | | \__ \ ___) | (_) | _| |_ \ V V / (_| | | | __/ |_____\___| \_/ \___|_| |_|___/|____/ \___/|_| \__| \_/\_/ \__,_|_| \___| t: 0500 121 242 f: 0500 131 288 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Tue May 18 18:10:04 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95334 for opro ; Tue, 18 May 99 18:10:02 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 927040424:20:20543:16; Tue, 18 May 99 15:13:44 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2128991; 18 May 99 15:13 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id PAA24418 for ovationpro-list; Tue, 18 May 1999 15:44:20 +0100 Received: from hinge.mistral.co.uk (hinge.mistral.co.uk [195.184.228.15]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id PAA24412 for ; Tue, 18 May 1999 15:44:05 +0100 Received: from s.v.ellacott.mistral.co.uk (d3-s11-171-telehouse.mistral.co.uk [195.184.228.171]) by hinge.mistral.co.uk (8.8.5/ Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 15:16:09 +0000 (GMT) From: Steve Ellacott Subject: Re: Use of DDL files and/or predefined GML markup To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <95295@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: University of Brighton X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro On Tue 18 May, David Pilling wrote: > > > - that is something marked up in a standard text markup language (but > > not HTML) is there any way I can use Find/Replace to replace the GML > > tags through the document with the equivalent actions/attributes? I'm > > assuming not at the moment which is why I'm investigating generation > > of the files in DDL, but maybe this would be easier? > The best way to this kind of thing is to use Perl. There are scripts to parse various Markup Languages on CPAN, and perhaps one could be adapted. Or they are not too hard to write. I had thought of a script to output DDL but at present I'm working on BibTeX -> !Citation. However if anyone wants to try, I would be prepared to help/give advice. BTW, the latest version of Zap supports user filters (programs to convert files from one format to another) and I have emailed Darren Salt re writing these in Perl, but again this is on the waiting list. -- Steve Ellacott, School of Computing and Mathematical Sciences, University of Brighton, Moulsecoomb, BN2 4GJ, UK Tel: Home (01273) 885845 Office: (01273) 642544 Fax: Home (01273) 270183 Office: (01273) 642405 WWW: http://www.it.brighton.ac.uk/staff/swe -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Wed May 19 15:31:23 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95422 for opro ; Wed, 19 May 99 15:31:21 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 927122013:20:28662:80; Wed, 19 May 99 13:53:33 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2028659; 19 May 99 13:53 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id OAA25812 for ovationpro-list; Wed, 19 May 1999 14:33:30 +0100 Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk (golden.argonet.co.uk [194.131.104.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id OAA25807 for ; Wed, 19 May 1999 14:33:18 +0100 Received: from (ARM_NoName) [62.188.146.124] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 10k6Tk-0001zj-00; Wed, 19 May 1999 14:33:50 +0100 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 14:32:53 +0100 From: Ovation Pro Maillist To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Tab Stops + Bulleted lists - Solution available!! Message-ID: <4b72ab449%ovationpro@levens.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <893035349%ovationpro@levens.co.uk> X-Organization: The Levens Organisation Limited: Levens Software X-Mailer: Messenger v1.40f for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60m Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro As I mentioned in a previous note to this mail list, I have been working on an numbeed/bulleted list applet for OvationPro. This is now complete and available from http://www.levens.co.uk/software/ This applet enables the automated insertion of bullet points and numbered list items (including preceeding/suceeding tabs, spaces and full stops). To stop this, you need to press RETURN twice. The applet will remove the last entered item (to make it tidy). You do _not_ need to select an area and click a button to insert bullets. It currently doesn't support Roman numberals or automatic numbering of sub-sections (1.1, 1.2, etc.). This applet has been extended to cope with the original request to follow the StrongEd system of automatically indenting the next line following a press of RETURN (ie, with no list item). You can switch this on from the applet menu. Also, on another note, HTMLPro is now at version 1.4 and available from us for just 29.95UKP (fully inclusive). Many of the problems noted in Acorn user (in fact I think _all_ of the problems) have been cleared up and the entire site where the list applet is situated has been created with OvationPro and HTMLPro. I would apreciate any comments or suggestions (mainly for the applet). Benji Levens -- _ software@levens.co.uk ____ __ _ | | _____ _____ _ __ ___ / ___| ___ / _| |___ ____ _ _ __ ___ | | / _ \ \ / / _ \ '_ \/ __|\___ \ / _ \| |_| __\ \ /\ / / _` | '__/ _ \ | |__| __/\ V / __/ | | \__ \ ___) | (_) | _| |_ \ V V / (_| | | | __/ |_____\___| \_/ \___|_| |_|___/|____/ \___/|_| \__| \_/\_/ \__,_|_| \___| t: 0500 121 242 f: 0500 131 288 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 20 17:34:02 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95514 for opro ; Thu, 20 May 99 17:34:00 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 927215945:20:23799:25; Thu, 20 May 99 15:59:05 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2023605; 20 May 99 15:58 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA27294 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 20 May 1999 16:30:37 +0100 Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA27281 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 16:30:13 +0100 Received: from [158.152.123.49] (helo=retreat.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10kUmh-00067d-0B for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 20 May 1999 15:30:59 +0000 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 11:48:29 +0100 (BST) From: Malcolm Cowell Subject: Link local to master-made-local To: Ovation mail list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Hello I have a repetitive job in which my solution was to set a master frame so that I could link between frames on subsequent pages. e.g. Page 4 has a local frame with text to flow to a frame on Page 5. The Page 5 frame was a master frame made local but the Text flow tool complains I cannot link to a master frame. However if I duplicate the "master-made-local" frame then the text link tool works fine into the duplicate frame. Clearly it is easier to draw a new local frame each time but I thought the master frame idea would give fewer mouse clicks and screen scrolls. Have I uncovered a bug? Incidentally there is no point in my linking on the master page as the frames need to be free to cut and paste as the document grows with inserted pages. -- Malcolm Cowell IEng MIIE Python Publishing http://www.chilternweb.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 20 17:34:04 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95515 for opro ; Thu, 20 May 99 17:34:02 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 927216134:20:27081:25; Thu, 20 May 99 16:02:14 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2026675; 20 May 99 16:01 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA27266 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 20 May 1999 16:29:53 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA27261 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 16:29:41 +0100 Received: from [158.152.123.49] (helo=retreat.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10kUlc-0005jn-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Thu, 20 May 1999 15:30:08 +0000 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 11:48:29 +0100 (BST) From: Malcolm Cowell Subject: Link local to master-made-local To: Ovation mail list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Hello I have a repetitive job in which my solution was to set a master frame so that I could link between frames on subsequent pages. e.g. Page 4 has a local frame with text to flow to a frame on Page 5. The Page 5 frame was a master frame made local but the Text flow tool complains I cannot link to a master frame. However if I duplicate the "master-made-local" frame then the text link tool works fine into the duplicate frame. Clearly it is easier to draw a new local frame each time but I thought the master frame idea would give fewer mouse clicks and screen scrolls. Have I uncovered a bug? Incidentally there is no point in my linking on the master page as the frames need to be free to cut and paste as the document grows with inserted pages. -- Malcolm Cowell IEng MIIE Python Publishing http://www.chilternweb.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Thu May 20 19:44:34 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95527 for opro ; Thu, 20 May 99 19:44:32 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 927215567:10:26467:52; Thu, 20 May 99 15:52:47 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1027009; 20 May 99 15:52 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id QAA27224 for ovationpro-list; Thu, 20 May 1999 16:22:48 +0100 Received: from studict.student.utwente.nl (studict.student.utwente.nl [130.89.220.2]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA27219 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 16:22:33 +0100 Received: from s9302700.inbel.utwente.nl (ut113097.inbel.utwente.nl [130.89.113.97]) by studict.student.utwente.nl (8.8.6/MQT) with SMTP id RAA03263 for ; Thu, 20 May 1999 17:23:17 +0200 (METDST) Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 16:55:31 +0200 (BST) From: "m.m.ottens" Subject: overlapping in seperations? To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <199905181446.PAA24429@omega.barnet.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R Hello, I was wondering whether there is a way of specifying a small overlap in ovation. When seperating a colour file colours on top of another are cutout in the underlying color on the seperation. There is a way to avoid this called overprint. But this will not allways give good results. Blue on orange will not give blue anymore and orange on blue certainly not orange. Quark xpress and coreldraw have the option to specify an overlap of say 0.1mm. So the white gap in the seperation is a little bit smaller then the colour on top of it. When printing it will result in a small bit darker line around the topcolor instead of a white line. Where talking about very small amounts 1/10 mm or smaller. I do not think ovation does have this at the moment, but maybe it can be done by an applet Wish I could say all this in dutch, that's a lot easier. Maarten -- \/\/\/\ M.M.Ottens /\/\/\/ O'dd - Ottens' dutch designs \/\/\/\ http://www.futuretrain.com/odd /\/\/\/ +31-(0)73-6135050 -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 21 13:50:47 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95575 for opro ; Fri, 21 May 99 13:50:45 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 927253442:10:15470:17; Fri, 21 May 99 02:24:02 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1119443; 21 May 99 2:23 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id DAA28229 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 21 May 1999 03:07:05 +0100 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id DAA28221 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 03:06:44 +0100 Received: from [158.152.9.39] (helo=pilling.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10keih-0002UB-0C for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 21 May 1999 02:07:31 +0000 Date: Fri, 21 May 99 01:26:56 GMT Message-Id: <95571@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: overlapping in seperations? X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >I was wondering whether there is a way of specifying a small overlap in >ovation. When seperating a colour file colours on top of another are cutout >in the underlying color on the seperation. In the jargon 'trapping'. ISTR Mr. Moir once said it would be impossible to add to Impression. My copy of a 1991 book on Quark 3 describes the feature - which shows how we're lagging behind. It'd be a bit like text runaround, another curve associated with objects, which is either auto calculated or user editable. It would be good fun to add... David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 21 13:50:47 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95576 for opro ; Fri, 21 May 99 13:50:45 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 927252980:20:05250:18; Fri, 21 May 99 02:16:20 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2005148; 21 May 99 2:16 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id DAA28228 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 21 May 1999 03:07:03 +0100 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id DAA28218 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 03:06:42 +0100 Received: from [158.152.9.39] (helo=pilling.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10keij-0002UB-0C for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 21 May 1999 02:07:33 +0000 Date: Fri, 21 May 99 01:27:05 GMT Message-Id: <95573@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Link local to master-made-local X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >local frame with text to flow to a frame on Page 5. The Page 5 frame was a >master frame made local but the Text flow tool complains I cannot link to a >master frame. However if I duplicate the "master-made-local" frame then the >text link tool works fine into the duplicate frame. Hmm. close to call. It might be a bug, but there have to be lots of limitations on master frames, and master frames made local are surrounded by lots of special rules too.(e.g. if you consider what happens when the master pages force an update of the document). David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 21 13:51:08 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95585 for opro ; Fri, 21 May 99 13:51:06 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 927291035:20:26136:22; Fri, 21 May 99 12:50:35 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2112260; 21 May 99 12:49 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id NAA28803 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:25:28 +0100 Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-10.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.20]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA28798 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:25:16 +0100 Received: from [212.238.88.19] (helo=dinkla.demon.nl) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.02 #1) id 10koNP-0002OU-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 21 May 1999 12:26:12 +0000 Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 13:22:51 +0000 (GMT) From: Ernst Dinkla Subject: Re: overlapping in seperations? To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: <95571@pilling.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R In on Fri 21 May, David Pilling wrote: > > >I was wondering whether there is a way of specifying a small overlap in > >ovation. When seperating a colour file colours on top of another are cutout > >in the underlying color on the seperation. > > In the jargon 'trapping'. ISTR Mr. Moir once said it would be impossible to > add to Impression. My copy of a 1991 book on Quark 3 describes the feature - > which shows how we're lagging behind. > > It'd be a bit like text runaround, another curve associated with objects, > which is either auto calculated or user editable. > > It would be good fun to add... The function is related to clipping, for vector+text objects you need that to start with. There are RIPs that can do it on PostScript output. So not every program should need it. For RiscOs only WClipper can do some trapping on vector objects properly. Vantage should have it as I understand it. Nick wasn't impressed by what WClipper does. He wrote it didn't create proper parallel beziers. It works for me though. We will see what Vantage does. !Embolden by Clive Semmens is able to create parallel beziers on Draw and Font objects. Not as precise as WClipper does but good. Draw itself has no clipping, ArtWorks does but it needed Martin to reveal it. Trapping for printing isn't just creating an overlap but should also have a smooth overlap where the underlying colour has a boundary where the dotsize diminishes to the edge. With trapping on bitmaps the colour on top should also have the same. Clipping on bitmaps is more complicated. Ernst -- Ernst Dinkla Serigrafie,Zeefdruk The point will never be metric -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 21 15:35:50 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95605 for opro ; Fri, 21 May 99 15:35:48 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 927295547:10:22611:26; Fri, 21 May 99 14:05:47 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1022571; 21 May 99 14:05 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id OAA28977 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:45:34 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA28972 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:45:23 +0100 Received: from [158.152.9.39] (helo=pilling.demon.co.uk) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10kpcy-000PMq-0A for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Fri, 21 May 1999 13:46:20 +0000 Date: Fri, 21 May 99 14:37:28 GMT Message-Id: <95602@pilling.demon.co.uk> From:(David Pilling) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: overlapping in seperations? X-Mailer: ArcBM 1.11 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro >WClipper does. !Embolden Those sound very interesting, are there URL's for them anywhere? As you say it will be interesting to see Vantage. To some extent the promises of what is in it, hold one back from doing certain features. David Pilling -- email: david@pilling.demon.co.uk web: http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/pilling web: http://www.pilling.demon.co.uk post: David Pilling, P.O. Box 22, Thornton Cleveleys, Blackpool. FY5 1LR. UK. -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Fri May 21 15:35:53 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95606 for opro ; Fri, 21 May 99 15:35:51 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 927296799:10:09798:17; Fri, 21 May 99 14:26:39 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1009232; 21 May 99 14:25 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id OAA29093 for ovationpro-list; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:51:01 +0100 Received: from dirc.bris.ac.uk (dirc.bris.ac.uk [137.222.10.51]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id OAA29086 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:50:43 +0100 Received: from sis.bris.ac.uk by dirc.bris.ac.uk with SMTP-PRIV (PP) with ESMTP; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:51:35 +0100 Received: from dml1.pys.bristol.ac.uk (dml1.pys.bris.ac.uk [137.222.53.82]) by sis.bris.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA02007 for ; Fri, 21 May 1999 14:50:25 +0100 (BST) Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:50:25 +0100 (BST) From: "Dr. D. M. Lewis" Subject: Re Matched Pairs To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Organization: Organisation name, location. Telephone/Fax? X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Dear Mr. Levens, re > > If you would like to be able to insert matched pairs around text selections, > then you need my matched pairs applet. You can add Smart quotes around text, > brackets and even those double chevron things (?). > I've been trying out the Matched Pairs applet which would be very useful, but it seems to introduce a bug. I find that it converts a Return to a new line (Shift-Return) at the end of a paragraph. Although, if a double Return is used, the second is read correctly. Don Lewis -- Dr. D. M. Lewis Phone (+44) 117 9287813 Department of Physiology Secretaries' Office 9288105 Medical School, University Walk, Fax 9288923 Bristol, BS8 1TD -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 22 14:44:07 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95639 for opro ; Sat, 22 May 99 14:44:04 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 927366405:10:18821:17; Sat, 22 May 99 09:46:45 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1018753; 22 May 99 9:46 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id KAA30074 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 22 May 1999 10:26:29 +0100 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk (mail6.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.212]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id KAA30066 for ; Sat, 22 May 1999 10:26:07 +0100 Received: from modem-122.silicon.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.6.250] helo=savannahelite) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10l83H-00002P-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Sat, 22 May 1999 10:26:43 +0100 From: "Ian Goulbourne" To: Subject: SIGNOFF ovationp-l Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 10:26:56 +0100 Message-ID: <000501bea435$3c1b5a00$fa06883e@savannahelite> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <95573@pilling.demon.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Please sign me off for the moment Thanks Ian -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 24 20:31:51 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95676 for opro ; Mon, 24 May 99 20:31:46 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 927482826:20:26112:18; Sun, 23 May 99 18:07:06 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2026017; 23 May 99 18:06 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id SAA31464 for ovationpro-list; Sun, 23 May 1999 18:54:00 +0100 Received: from mailout.access.ch (mailout.access.ch [195.112.71.160]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA31459 for ; Sun, 23 May 1999 18:53:44 +0100 Received: from janvredenb.access.ch (megapop9-121.access.ch [195.112.93.249]) by mailout.access.ch (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA12829; Sun, 23 May 1999 19:55:02 +0200 Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 19:39:37 +0200 (BST) From: Jhr JMAH van Vredenburch Subject: Re: Selecting numbers To: OVATIONP-L cc: Jhr CHM van Vredenburch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 X-Organization: JMvV: tel +41 41 3706124; fax +41 41 3706120 X-Mailer: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.46] X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by omega.barnet.ac.uk id SAA31460 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by omega.barnet.ac.uk id SAB31464 On Mon 17 May, Dr. D. M. Lewis wrote: > On Fri 14 May, Ken wrote: > > Sorry for the late reply; been away from the computer for a few days = :-( > >=20 > > In article <49011fabdcrayd@argonet.co.uk>, > > Ray Dawson wrote: > >=20 > > [snip] > > > So, clicking on 245.789 selects the 245 but not the 789, even if I > > > click on the 789. >=20 > If you use the correct decimal point as in 123=B7456, you get the whole= number > selected wherever you click. I know this creates other problems, but it= can be > useful at times. >=20 > Don Lewis Don, I am sorry to disagree, but your suggestion as to what is considered to b= e the correct decimal point is definitely NOT correct. About a year ago I s= aw a similar statement in Archive. This finally resulted in a mail from Keit= h Hopper from "down under", who apparently has a lot to do with setting international standards for letters/alphabets/languages. My question to h= im was whether the following statement was correct: > QUOTE > Decimal point character - gives the decimal point character. > You should use this for money, time, program version numbers etc. > UNQUOTE (Sorry, I forgot the name of the originator of this statement. Was it y= ou by any chance?) Mr Hopper's answer was: QUOTE > The comment you quote is only applicable in mathematical texts in > general and, so far as I am aware, has not been adopted in any European= or > Asian country. >=20 > The decimal mark for numbers is usually either a fullstop or a com= ma > or, in one or two Asian scripts, a similarly positioned punctuation > character. >=20 > The decimal mark for monetary quantities is rather more varied sin= ce > some countries place the local currency symbol where a decimal > point/fullstop would be placed by many others. If my memory serves me > correctly, Portugal serves as an example of one of those who do so. >=20 > From a standards point of view, therefore, the statement is not > particularly helpful and anyone who wishes to follow the advice given t= here > should be cautioned as to their non-conformance with recognised standar= ds! >=20 UNQUOTE As to the problem initially stated. A double-click is expected to select a word (in computereeze: a string), eventually with a following space (so you do not end up with double space= s in your text!). Now I do believe that whatever number is input in your text is basically seen as a 'string', as all the other text. If you want numbers recognized according to your wish, double-clicking on a word followed by a full stop will result in the following word being selected as well........ David Pilling's response to this problem is therefore a jewel. Can someone write that specific applet? Nick Kaijaks' comments touched a soft spot in my memory of my mathematics professor at Amsterdam University. He was very strict in the correct positioning of this multiplication sign in our papers! Hope this helps to clear the situation. JohnvV --=20 JM van Vredenburch tel +41 41 3706125 | RiscPC (ex-Acorn) Schaedruetihalde 5 fax +41 41 3706120 | Computers CH - 6006 Luzern email janvredenb@access.ch | only :-) =2E -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 24 20:33:00 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95709 for opro ; Mon, 24 May 99 20:32:58 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 927571178:10:09156:16; Mon, 24 May 99 18:39:38 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1008973; 24 May 99 18:39 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id TAA00263 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 24 May 1999 19:19:39 +0100 Received: from mail10.svr.pol.co.uk (mail10.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.214]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id TAA00257 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 19:19:22 +0100 Received: from modem-51.helium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.0.179] helo=orchard-way) by mail10.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10lywz-0003MB-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 24 May 1999 18:55:45 +0100 Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 19:08:11 +0100 From: Alan Adams To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Subject: Re: Selecting numbers Message-ID: <87d457749%Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk> In-Reply-To: X-Organization: home X-Mailer: Messenger v1.40d for RISC OS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.60m Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro In message you wrote: > On Mon 17 May, Dr. D. M. Lewis wrote: > > On Fri 14 May, Ken wrote: > > > Sorry for the late reply; been away from the computer for a few days :-( > > > > > > In article <49011fabdcrayd@argonet.co.uk>, > > > Ray Dawson wrote: > > > > > > [snip] > > > > So, clicking on 245.789 selects the 245 but not the 789, even if I > > > > click on the 789. > > > > Don Lewis > I discovered a different but related behaviour. Styles have a scope, defaulting to paragraph, but one option is Word. I recently hat to work on a document which had section numbering such as the following 1 1.1 1.1.1 1.2 1.2.a 1.3 1.3.1 1.3.1a I discovered that the word scope selects differently from double click. Applying a style with word scope works in the whole number (e.r. 1.1.1 if, and only if, the cursor is to the right of the final dot, and to the left of the last character. For example in the 1.3.1a, the cursor must be either between 1.1. and 3a, or between 1.1.3 and a I found this most useful, since it was possible to apply word styles correctly without having to drag-select the heading. Maybe this should apply to double-clicking numbers too? -- Alan Adams email: Alan.Adams@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 24 22:33:06 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95735 for opro ; Mon, 24 May 99 22:32:56 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 927575810:10:19808:18; Mon, 24 May 99 19:56:50 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1019738; 24 May 99 19:56 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id UAA00444 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 24 May 1999 20:43:07 +0100 Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk (golden.argonet.co.uk [194.131.104.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id UAA00439 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 20:42:52 +0100 Received: from (193.149.73.101) [193.149.73.101] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 10m0cl-0005vn-00; Mon, 24 May 1999 20:43:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Richard Watkinson) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Cc: carel@vredenburch.demon.nl Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 01:14:53 +0100 X-Organization: Argonet, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: Posty - Voyager Email 1.22b Subject: Re: Selecting numbers Content-Type: text/richtext Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-printable Message-Id: Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro The reason why there are so many ways of formatting numbers is both cultura= l and technological. The correct decimal point is vis 2=B74 an= d if this does not come through correctly on your email it is a dot half wa= y up the character height. There are no two ways about it, this is where t= he decimal point should appear. So why do we have so many variatio= ns? *1. Cultural: a. Europeans are a law unto themselves = and the use of commas as a seperator must be c= ondemmed. b. Most people don't notice, unders= tand or give a damn. 2. Technological: Calculator displays wer= e, and generally still are, unable to vertical= ly centre a dp so it appears as a full stop. Typing= machines did not have the ability to produce = the correct dp and nobody ever thought too hard abo= ut it being a problem.One problem I have as a maths teacher is tryi= ng to teach a system of writing numbers in a consistent way when nobody els= e seems to either bother or care.The same problems happen in Englis= h: at the moment nobody seems to know where apostrophes are used. It seems = that the general rule most people are applying is that when a word end's in= s there should be an apostrophe.So we get = Cabbage's 39p Straw's 80pOne of th= ese is, of course, allowable. We also get alot a = lot. Why? This is a very recent thing, as is the personal pronoun, I, bei= ng written in lower case. Yes I know both of these errors have always happ= ened but not so frequently. BASIC ENGLISH is the problem and = it is not down to the teachers. The problem is mainly due to the kids who = don't care a toss because their parents don't care a toss. * Th= ere is also a convention to make very large and very small numbers easier t= o read when written out in full rather than Standard Form. The convention = is to leave a slightly bigger gap for every 3rd digit either side of the de= cimal point.EXAMPLES I can't give you any as my email progra= m uses a monospaced font and the numbers look stupid when split in blocks o= f 3. If you haven't grasped what I'm saying email me and I'll send you som= ething in Ovation or OPro.-- Richard __ __ __ = __ __ _____________________________________________|__||_ |_ = |/ |\ ||_ |_ /|__||__ |__ |\ | \||__ |__ /...Ceilidh/Barndance musi= c for all occasions___________________________/ rwatki@argonet.co.uk -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Mon May 24 22:33:50 1999 Received: from punt-21.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA95736 for opro ; Mon, 24 May 99 22:33:46 GMT Received: from punt-2.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 927579808:20:16817:18; Mon, 24 May 99 21:03:28 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-2.mail.demon.net id aa2115947; 24 May 99 21:03 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id VAA00572 for ovationpro-list; Mon, 24 May 1999 21:49:41 +0100 Received: from mail15.svr.pol.co.uk (mail15.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.193.25]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA00567 for ; Mon, 24 May 1999 21:49:28 +0100 Received: from modem-44.thalium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.40.44] helo=wallace) by mail15.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 10m1Bn-0000kx-00 for ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk; Mon, 24 May 1999 21:19:11 +0100 Message-ID: <001101bea626$f1908160$ab356d01@wallace> From: "Nicholas Kaijaks" To: Subject: Re: Selecting numbers Date: Mon, 24 May 1999 21:49:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro This is turning into the 'double-space-after-a-full-stop' debate again, isn't it ;-) For what it's worth, according to my copy of Hart's Rules, a medial point should be used in decimals (contrary to my recollection of the other day). This is also the form used in my Open University 'Science Data Book'. On the other hand, the Institute of Physics 'Guide for Authors' and the Cambridge University 'Formulae for Advanced Mathematics' both use full stops. This is also the form used in all the journal articles sitting in a pile on my desk (from a variety of learned scientific publishers). I think, therefore, it must inevitably therefore come down to personal preference, rather than categorically one or t'other. Plus ca change... Cheers, Nick -- Nick Kaijaks, Proprietor, Pinxit Design ~ for Internet and print mailto:nick@kaijaks.co.uk http://www.kaijaks.co.uk/ orange:0966 188872 Disclaimer: caveat internettor -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message From owner-ovationpro@omega.barnet.ac.uk Sat May 29 18:06:49 1999 Received: from punt-11.mail.demon.net by pilling.demon.co.uk with SMTP id AA96006 for opro ; Sat, 29 May 99 18:06:47 GMT Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for opro@pilling.demon.co.uk id 927997529:10:27794:16; Sat, 29 May 99 17:05:29 GMT Received: from omega.barnet.ac.uk ([194.82.200.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa1027523; 29 May 99 17:05 GMT Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) id RAA05821 for ovationpro-list; Sat, 29 May 1999 17:49:55 +0100 Received: from golden.argonet.co.uk (golden.argonet.co.uk [194.131.104.13]) by omega.barnet.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.6) with SMTP id RAA05816 for ; Sat, 29 May 1999 17:49:40 +0100 Received: from (193.149.77.207) [193.149.77.207] by golden.argonet.co.uk with smtp (Exim 1.82 #3) id 10nmJs-0003J0-00; Sat, 29 May 1999 17:50:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 From:(Angela Craggs) To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 17:47:46 +0100 X-Organization: Argonet, but does not necessarily reflect its views. X-Mailer: ArgoNet 'Voyager' Email Program 1.20b Subject: Where has Ovation Pro list gone? Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: Sender: owner-ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ovationpro@lists.barnet.ac.uk X-maillist: ovationpro Status: R I have not had any postings from the Ovation Pro list for several days. Have I missed something? Angela Craggs -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ acraggs@argonet.co.uk www.argonet.co.uk/users/acraggs -- To unsubscribe from this list, email majordomo@lists.barnet.ac.uk with the words UNSUBSCRIBE ovationpro in the body of the message